[HN Gopher] Who's running the Vincere bot network on Instagram?
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       Who's running the Vincere bot network on Instagram?
        
       Author : mbellotti
       Score  : 30 points
       Date   : 2021-07-11 20:00 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (medium.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (medium.com)
        
       | lemedro wrote:
       | https://archive.is/RQ6A0
        
       | tyingq wrote:
       | Poked around on vincerewears.com to see what was there.
       | 
       | There's a widget that pops up periodically that says _" Someone
       | in {city}, {country} purchased {product}"_. It looked a bit
       | fishy, so I poked around the source code.
       | 
       | Sure enough, the faked purchases are in the source code. They
       | don't even bother to load them via XHR to at least give some
       | semblance of legitimacy. Lol.
       | 
       | s = [{ "sn_city": "Pompano Beach", "sn_country": "United States",
       | "sn_discount": null, "sn_first_name": "Erick", "sn_handle":
       | "natu-t-shirt", "sn_img": "https:\/\/cdn.shopify.com\/s\/files\/1
       | \/0283\/5824\/6448\/products\/product-
       | image-1183227221.jpg?v=1600916205", ...
       | 
       | From: https://sales-notification-
       | cdn.makeprosimp.com/v1/published/...
        
         | Aulig wrote:
         | Such a scummy thing to do - sadly effective and all too common.
         | Also illegal depending on your legislation.
        
       | joeblow21 wrote:
       | Most influencers buy bot followers to scam advertisers so what
       | goes around comes around I guess
        
       | smoldesu wrote:
       | Looks like GoDaddy is providing the domain name for a lot of
       | these fronts. Someone could cause an awful lot of ruckus by
       | emailing abuse@godaddy.com with a list of the offending sites
       | (Urban Ice, Hype Authority and Brute Impact are still online: you
       | can find the links in the article).
       | 
       | Just food for thought.
        
         | rPlayer6554 wrote:
         | If overpriced merch were abuse, kanyewest(dot)com and
         | supremesclothingonline(dot)com would have been taken down a
         | long time ago....
        
         | pc86 wrote:
         | What exactly is the abuse in this case?
        
       | cloudking wrote:
       | "Thousands of fake Instagram accounts are powering scams
       | targeting influencers. The scams are run by different people, but
       | are the bots?" I'm trying to figure out what part of this story
       | is the scam.
       | 
       | Shopify's business model encourages people to build dropshipping
       | sites, there are literally hundreds of thousands of them. They
       | promote plugins like Oberlo[1] that let you import products
       | directly from AliExpress into your store to markup and dropship.
       | They have blog posts[2] that teach you how to dropship. I feel
       | like the author is implying that dropshipping is a scam, well if
       | you are foolish enough to pay markup on items that you could
       | order yourself directly from AliExpress that's your own problem.
       | 
       | I think the bot issue is highlighting that these "scammers" have
       | figured out a way to automate driving sales through influencer
       | marketing. However, any dropshipper could do the same thing
       | manually, and some likely are. Influencer marketing is basically
       | sending influencers your products to promote, in this case they
       | are asking them to purchase, but they are still getting real
       | products. Is that a scam?
       | 
       | [1] https://www.shopify.com/oberlo
       | 
       | [2] https://www.shopify.com/blog/how-to-start-dropshipping
        
         | teej wrote:
         | > if you are foolish enough to pay markup on items that you
         | could order yourself directly from AliExpress that's your own
         | problem
         | 
         | How do you expect the average consumer to automatically know if
         | a product they're looking at is being resold from AliExpress?
        
           | tyingq wrote:
           | >How do you expect the average consumer to automatically know
           | if a product they're looking at is being resold from
           | AliExpress?
           | 
           | I think that's probably a good question most of the time. On
           | this site (vincerewears.com), though, it's pretty obvious.
           | 
           | First, the t-shirt is priced at $99, with no notion of brand
           | or why you might pay $100 for a t-shirt. Next, it has this
           | warning on the product page: _" CLOTHING ARE ASIAN SIZE.
           | KINDLY CHOOSE 1-2 SIZE BIGGER FROM YOUR US MEASUREMENT."_
           | 
           | And this on shipping policy: _" In regards to shipping, we
           | are still offering free worldwide shipping to nearly all
           | countries, however there will be delays. Our usual delivery
           | time is 15-40 business days, however please allow up to 60
           | business days for delivery."_
           | 
           | So, 60 business days is, ugh 12 weeks? 3 months? Heh.
        
           | tylersmith wrote:
           | They can spend time discovering the product and then price-
           | shopping to find that AliExpress has the best deal, or they
           | can pay the premium of the dropshipper to skip all that and
           | just get the thing they want right now.
        
             | tyingq wrote:
             | >just get the thing they want right now.
             | 
             | This particular site (vincerewears.com) has guidance that
             | usual shipping times are 15 to 40 business days, but to
             | expect 60 business days (3 months).
        
         | ALittleLight wrote:
         | Scam is probably not the right word for dropshipping. Though
         | dropshipping does seem like a parasitic activity that captures
         | the energy and capital of the dropshippers in order to increase
         | prices.
         | 
         | The scam in this article seems to be the bots that try to trick
         | would be Instagram influencers into buying merchandise to sell
         | to their audience. As I understand it the bots are really just
         | trying to convince the influencers into buying the goods
         | themselves and the influencers don't get any cut of whatever
         | product they do sell.
        
         | tylersmith wrote:
         | > if you are foolish enough to pay markup on items that you
         | could order yourself directly from AliExpress that's your own
         | problem
         | 
         | It's not necessarily foolish, they're providing market-
         | knowledge arbitrage which has value. If the reseller made me
         | aware of the product in the first place and I'm willing to
         | their price then the premium was the price I paid to not have
         | to discover the product on my own, and to not have to bother
         | with price comparison shopping.
         | 
         | I know $15 is an agreeable price and I can buy it right here
         | right now instead of spending 30 minutes comparing vendors to
         | find that I could save $5 on AliExpress, or just never having
         | it at all because I didn't know about the product.
        
           | hwayne wrote:
           | Dropshipping itself looks totally legitimate, and there's
           | market value of selling things for a small markup. The
           | scammers in this case are doing a 500% markup.
        
         | hwayne wrote:
         | > Shopify's business model encourages people to build
         | dropshipping sites, there are literally hundreds of thousands
         | of them. They promote plugins like Oberlo[1] that let you
         | import products directly from AliExpress into your store to
         | markup and dropship. They have blog posts[2] that teach you how
         | to dropship.
         | 
         | That's explicitly brought up in the article:
         | 
         | >> These schemes are very easy to set up. Shopify has a number
         | of helpful tutorials on how to do it. [these were inline links]
         | And the margins on them can be quite significant if the
         | customer doesn't realize the brand is just a front. For example
         | here's a shirt Vincere is currently selling for $99, here's the
         | same shirt on AliExpress for $16. That's a markup of 500%.
         | 
         | > I think the bot issue is highlighting that these "scammers"
         | have figured out a way to automate driving sales through
         | influencer marketing. However, any dropshipper could do the
         | same thing manually, and some likely are. Influencer marketing
         | is basically sending influencers your products to promote, in
         | this case they are asking them to purchase, but they are still
         | getting real products. Is that a scam?
         | 
         | Also brought up in the article:
         | 
         | >> Then on top of that if by chance someone does use your
         | ambassador code to buy something, most of these brands do not
         | have any affiliate marketing infrastructure... so they pocket
         | your promised commission too.
         | 
         | EDIT: Also, later in the article, she discusses the second
         | layer of scamming here, which is botnet operators scamming the
         | dropship scammers.
        
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       (page generated 2021-07-11 23:00 UTC)