[HN Gopher] Why is standing more tiring than walking? [audio]
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Why is standing more tiring than walking? [audio]
Author : open-source-ux
Score : 62 points
Date : 2021-07-13 19:06 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.co.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.co.uk)
| hypertele-Xii wrote:
| For me standing still causes unpleasant tingling sensation in my
| feet which intensifies, eventually becoming unbearable stinging,
| until I move. I think it's low blood pressure causing CO2
| accumulation or something?
| dmuth wrote:
| Not a doctor, but I have/had similar problems, and saw a number
| of doctors and specialists about this.
|
| Whatever it was, it wasn't understood by medical science, but
| the best thing we were able to pin it down to was "muscle
| spasms". Over time, I found that seeing a myofascial
| specialist, yoga, and physical therapy (read: Apple Fitness
| Plus) helped.
|
| If you'd like to chat more about this topic or just pick my
| brain, my email is my username AT my username DOT org.
| every wrote:
| I spent a number of years behind a bar. Standing still and in
| place is indeed tiring. Pacing, with constant movement, is
| energizing in comparison. I still find pacing and walking to be
| relaxing even decades later...
| inlikealamb wrote:
| It makes sense when you think about the mechanics involved.
| Standing is constant stress in the same places. Walking is
| varying stress with alternating relief.
| andai wrote:
| Exactly! When you move the pressure is distributed.
| bottled_poe wrote:
| I suspect that millions of years of evolution optimising for
| movement has something to do with it as well.
| PhantomGremlin wrote:
| I ... hate ... the ... slow ... pace ... of ... information ...
| delivery ... via ... audio, so I have no desire to listen.
|
| But (and I really don't know about this), isn't standing the
| _worst_?
|
| When you're sitting you can put your feet up to help circulation.
| And walking is also good for you. So I assume that's what the
| article "says"?
|
| Can anyone provide a tl;dl?
| [deleted]
| solox3 wrote:
| - Walking helps veins squeeze blood up against gravity.
|
| - Standing applies pressure on the same points on the feet.
| Walking shifts pressure from place to place.
|
| - "Moving in general is good for health" (with the implication
| that sitting and standing still are not moving)
| mrtweetyhack wrote:
| Theory: walking cycles muscles usage which cause blood to flow
| through veins(valve system) while standing tends to not help
| blood flow as much. This results in lactic acid buildup, less O2
| to site, more CO2 buildup.
| historyloop wrote:
| Yes, let's have whimsical music, long pauses, tangentially
| related side chit-chat, and re-enactment filling us on what it
| means "to walk" complete with walking sound effects.
|
| Gotta love 90s radio. But... it's not the 90s anymore.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| Hmm, I can't stand easily on same spot, my back begins to hurt as
| it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain straight posture.
| Mind you, if I keep moving I have no clue about the condition, I
| can hike hard for 12 hours straight for 2 weeks and be OK (well
| sore all over the body but not for this reason). I definitely
| wouldn't be able to work as some palace guard, standing straight
| all day.
|
| Sitting is generally OK, but I _always_ slouch if that 's the
| proper term, my butt is way in front of where it should be, so I
| have more Formula 1 position. And I can be like that for hours
| without feeling any pain or major discomfort. Actually sitting
| straight is not comfortable after some time and I always slide
| down. Office worker for 17 years, prior to that school 17 years
| of school of +-same stuff.
|
| Maybe some slight type of scoliosis that was never diagnosed,
| really don't know. Working out with free weights and climbing
| keeps me in check and can't complain much, not even during covid
| times when moving generally less. But if anybody has any
| clue/suggestion for improvement I would be eternally thankful.
| sleepydog wrote:
| I have the same symptoms as you; standing still, my lower back
| starts to ache after 30 minutes or so, but I can walk or run
| for miles and my back is fine.
|
| My hamstrings are _very_ tight from sitting all day, to the
| point that I cannot even bend 90 degrees at the waist with my
| back straight without discomfort in my hamstrings. I 've
| assumed that tight hamstrings are the root cause to my back
| pain while standing, but I haven't fixed it yet.
|
| The best results I've had in the past when I was more
| physically active were from doing "good-morning" exercises. I
| think it's because you build strength in the stretched
| position, which is important according to various books I've
| read like "relax into stretch" and articles on PNF stretching.
| When I was doing these exercises regularly I was able to put my
| forhead to my knees without doing any regular stretches.
| zahrc wrote:
| Note: please bear with my ignorance when it comes to anything
| medial.
|
| I can walk for hours and miles, but standing for even short
| durations is unbearable for me, due to pain & discomfort in my
| back and shoulders.
|
| I've got "diagnosed" with an underdeveloped trapezius (and
| several other muscles in the upper back region) and my head is
| 'heavier' than those can carry, at least according to my GP,
| who used to be a physiotherapist. I've tried working out, with
| focus on these areas, posture corrections and sheer will power,
| but eventually I'll end up slouching and my posture goes back
| to the hunchback of Notre Dame, because it feels more natural
| and ironically comfortable.
|
| Nearing my 30s I've grown more desperate and pushed and pushed
| specialists and eventually they found out I have 'minor'
| scoliosis. Surgery will need to be paid privately, as it's
| mostly discomfort and comparably not a lot of pain, and is
| therefore not an option at the moment. I can live with it, but
| the fear grows that it will get worse with age.
| amelius wrote:
| This is why the Segway was a failure, and any type of hoverboard
| will be.
| stevewodil wrote:
| What? Hoverboards were extremely popular some years back.
| Nowadays, it's EUC's, electric skateboards, or scooters.
| humanistbot wrote:
| The Segway was a failure because they built up so much hype
| around it, but it was so pricey and the tech just wasn't there
| yet. Battery and motor tech has advanced so much since then.
| The original Segway had a max speed of 10 mph and a range of
| 6-10 miles. It cost $6000.
| als0 wrote:
| What about electric scooters? They seem pretty popular at the
| moment.
| reader_mode wrote:
| This is an interesting topic and I haven't considered it fully.
|
| I have a standing desk and a really good ergonomic chair and
| every time I need to do extended work away from home (like in a
| vacation rental) it reminds me how important a good setup is.
|
| What I'm now wondering about with all this talk about gravity and
| blood circulation - is anyone here using those 0 gravity setups
| where the screen is hanging above you and you are practically
| lying down ?
|
| It seems like it would fix all the issues, have massive health
| benefits in the long run - if it actually works I could justify
| 5k$ but I don't have a chance to try it and I haven't heard about
| anyone using them. I suspect HN crowd is a good place to ask -
| anyone has info on how effective they actually are ? What are the
| downsides ? Is it just the cost ?
|
| We spend 8+ hours 5+ days a week at the computer - I'm sure over
| a decade or two the investment would pay off if it prevents back
| pain, removes strain from your heart and keeps you more rested
| while working.
| RobertoG wrote:
| >>"would pay off if it prevents back pain, removes strain from
| your heart and keeps you more rested while working. "
|
| If that's the case, astronauts should come back healthier from
| space instead of less healthy.
| OisinMoran wrote:
| I saw this post at some point and thought it was pretty
| interesting. It gives ways to do this for much less than 5k
|
| https://mgsloan.com/posts/supine-computing/
| eggsmediumrare wrote:
| I sit on a wooden kitchen chair at a kitchen table. This is
| extremely uncomfortable, and thus forces me to get up and move
| around frequently. I saw this somewhere and really took it to
| heart: "the only bad posture is the one you spend too much time
| in."
| cronix wrote:
| > removes strain from your heart
|
| If anything, I think our largest (modern) collective societal
| health problem is that we do wayyyy to much trying to avoid
| straining the heart. For how much of human history were we not
| working mostly sedentary? It has a cost. The body is meant to
| be worked. It loses strength and stamina when it isn't. I don't
| think the answer is to do even less. Besides, do you know how
| many involuntary naps I'd take if I was laying down all day?
| toxik wrote:
| This is heavily contested, yes exercise is healthy but
| straining yourself regularly also has a cost. Most people
| either exercise really hard or not at all, I think what's
| actually healthy is a moderate amount of exercise and the
| best type differs with age and occupation.
| User23 wrote:
| It's not really possible to understand human health without
| understanding Selye's General Adaption Syndrome and hormesis.
| In short, stressors that don't overcome the an organism's
| ability to more or less maintain homeostasis cause
| adaptations that make that organism better suited to
| withstand similar stresses. Athletic training is a classic
| example of a stress that, if all goes well, results in
| improved fitness. But there is something called overtraining,
| which results when the athlete applies more of a training
| stress than his or her body can handle, and in that case one
| sees a rapid and even catastrophic[1] decrease in fitness.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhabdomyolysis
| Swizec wrote:
| To be fair most of us regular humans are way _way_ too
| concerned about overtraining. It's really hard to get
| there.
|
| If you have a typical office job, you almost certainly
| don't even have enough time in the day to overtrain.
| knuthsat wrote:
| I'm skeptical. When I lay down and not think I fall asleep. If
| I have to think hard and work I'm pretty sure something is
| keeping me awake but I'm not sure if it's good for my health.
|
| I think similar thing happens to a degree when sitting.
| reader_mode wrote:
| I don't think this is fully lying down [1], looks more like
| dentist chair kind of a setup. My chair can almost recline
| that much and it feels weird looking up but I would probably
| get used to it so I'm not that skeptical it would work.
|
| I just wonder if the benefits are there and if there are any
| drawbacks.
|
| [1] https://altwork.com/
| Ronson wrote:
| I think Linus Tech Tips looked at one of these, if it
| wasn't the same it was similar, it was very jiggly and
| seemed irritating.
|
| I also thought that a Semi Circle chair which started at
| sitting position and over X hours each second, it shifted X
| of a degree until you finished lying down so there was
| constant change. No idea how that would work though.
|
| Standing desk solved my back problems, but totally unhappy
| with all ergonomic chairs so far (Cheap-to-Herman Miller
| mainly). I kind of gave up burning money on them because it
| takes several weeks to get a feeling for a chair.
| andy_ppp wrote:
| $4950 wow! I mean that's crazy...
| reader_mode wrote:
| Yeah looking into the alternatives it doesn't seem like
| there's anything significantly cheaper (maybe I missed
| it).
| ajuc wrote:
| > What I'm now wondering about with all this talk about gravity
| and blood circulation - is anyone here using those 0 gravity
| setups where the screen is hanging above you and you are
| practically lying down ?
|
| I just put laptop on my bed, put a half-pumped sitting ball on
| the bed near the laptop and lie belly-down on it. About half
| the working time I just sit normally near my desk and the other
| half I change to this bed "setup". No back pains for over a
| year now (but I also started walking ~8 km a day so it probably
| helped too).
| Zancarius wrote:
| I'd guess the walking probably contributed more.
|
| I've had issues with my back for most of my life. When I'm
| physically active (walking, resistance training, etc) and
| strengthen my core, I find that the problems subside to the
| point where I rarely hurt myself. It still happens but with
| much less frequency.
|
| Posture and avoiding RSI-like outcomes helps too, but I
| genuinely think strengthening related muscle groups helps
| more. Not a doctor though, so take this opinion with an
| equivalently-sized grain of salt!
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| It took over a year to get used to my standing-only desk.
|
| Now I typically get over 12 hours of standing per day, and it
| definitely helps with my energy level. It seems to reduce the
| energy barrier of going to do something (with your feet).
| bob1029 wrote:
| I found similar outcomes. I just did some math and I am
| standing up nearly 14 hours per day. I eat all my meals
| standing up now too. The only time I sit down is when I am
| playing games, driving (rare these days), or getting ready to
| go to bed.
|
| As mentioned by other comments in this thread, there are issues
| with standing completely still all day. I find myself shifting
| weight between my legs throughout the day, and finding
| occassional excuses to walk in circles or visit the whiteboard.
|
| After a while you don't even process it as some sort of
| inconvenience. Sitting down actually drives me nuts now. It
| feels "wrong" for some reason. I have no trouble getting to
| sleep at night though.
| SonnyTark wrote:
| I know that very well from VR, I can walk for hours in real life
| but VR turns my legs to noodles in 1-2 hours tops.
| lake_vincent wrote:
| This is very interesting. I have plantar fasciitis, and I've
| gotten to the point where walking long distances isn't painful
| anymore, but standing in one place for a long time is still
| agony. Seems counterintuitive, but now it makes a little more
| sense.
|
| Long line at the grocery store? No thank you - I'll come back
| later.
| rob_c wrote:
| Recently been diagnosed with that. Didn't realise that could be
| related to the pains I get from standing still for long periods
| over walking.
|
| Just wanted to say thanks. I never consciously linked the 2.
| Will have to make use of it to know if my exercise routine is
| helping.
| DantesKite wrote:
| I had plantar fasciitis on both feet for a very long time.
|
| I solved it by constantly massaging my calves for about a month
| and a half. There are tools you can purchase on Amazon for it
| like the Stick, but gua sha, a spatula from your kitchen works
| just as well.
|
| I also switch to shoes that don't have soles since soles weaken
| your muscles by causing them to atrophy.
|
| Haven't had problems since.
|
| Hope you can resolve the issues.
| ed25519FUUU wrote:
| I think my plantar fasciitis was inadvertently fixed by
| walking around my hardwood home barefoot for a year from
| WFH/covid. I'm almost never in shoes anymore.
|
| Initially it hurt more, then it just went away.
| rikelmens wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72p58Iy6u7M
| matsemann wrote:
| Second working on the calves. Many massage the plantar
| itself, but the root cause is often tightness in the calves
| making the workload for the plantar f too high.
|
| A second thin on the calves is using a "strassburg sock"
| during night. Keeps everything stretched, if one's one of
| those with initial pain in the morning because it has
| "settled" in a non flexed state.
|
| Not sure if I agree on soles, though. Some people have feet
| that needs correction. Or at least that having used soles
| one's whole life, suddenly switching it up can lead to more
| harm than good. For me, finally getting a custom molded sole
| has solved a lot of issues I've been dealing with my whole
| life (wide foot, extreme arch).
|
| (most of my pf knowledge is based on me and friends getting
| it from running, other causes might have other
| characteristics)
| estaseuropano wrote:
| I had custom soles a long time of my life, which were super
| expensive and made it agonizingly difficult to buy matching
| shoes. A good physiotherapy treatment and a few simple
| stretching exercises that i do each evening have taken away
| all that along with fifteen years of knee and ankle plain.
|
| Anecdote is not data but I'm 100% convinced that the soles
| made it worse for me, apart from the >10k spent on soles
| and shoes. I can go running again without pain!
| tshaddox wrote:
| I'm pretty sure I had plantar fasciitis as well (I was never
| professionally diagnosed), when I first got into wilderness
| backpacking and long strenuous hikes. I switched quickly and
| permanently to very light trail running shoes, and added some
| brief calf exercises to my gym warmups. Also haven't had
| problems since.
| robotresearcher wrote:
| Very painful - my sympathies. I suffered for a couple of years
| with this despite trying many things. Was really an issue for
| quality of life.
|
| Then in lockdown I started a daily 5km walk. The issue subsided
| and disappeared completely after a few weeks. It's possible
| that going barefoot at home all day contributed, but I suspect
| that the key was walking a decent distance so frequently. I was
| already in reasonable shape, but I can feel that the chain of
| muscles used in walking has built up. Blessed perfect relief in
| the feet.
|
| edit: I recall now that my feet used to hurt at the start of a
| walk but not the end. Which was a clue that it was not about
| muscle tiredness at all. Perhaps tightness/tension or blood
| supply?
| megablast wrote:
| Have you changed your shoes?? That worked for me.
| rubyn00bie wrote:
| Using something that looks like this: https://m.media-
| amazon.com/images/I/51QNbhoWUML._AC_SL1000_....
|
| For a few weeks, maybe 5-10 minutes a day, totally fixed it. It
| was pretty awful until then but it was amazing how quickly it
| cleared it up. I tried different styles of the roller but that
| style (rubber with small weird nub things) seems to work the
| best/most comfortable to use.
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