[HN Gopher] Making The World's Most Detailed (Print) Maps
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       Making The World's Most Detailed (Print) Maps
        
       Author : mparr4
       Score  : 44 points
       Date   : 2021-07-26 21:05 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (ramblemaps.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (ramblemaps.com)
        
       | filleokus wrote:
       | Really cool looking maps! Most printed large format things I see
       | every day definitely looks worse than e.g 5K iMac screens when
       | you get closer than a couple of feet from it. Would be cool to
       | see something like this IRL
       | 
       | I wonder if it's possible to use something like photolithography
       | to create incredibly high dpi "3D prints" for elevation maps like
       | this? Maybe some parts would look flat, but you would be able to
       | discern elevation based on touch?
        
         | mparr4 wrote:
         | Thanks! Yea, I think we are as close as wall art can get to a
         | high quality screen - we optimize for contrast on the print.
         | And while unlike a screen you need to provide light for a
         | print, the effect of the light on the print is pretty engaging.
         | It changes as you move around it. (It is not, please nobody buy
         | one thinking they are!)
         | 
         | If you're ever looking to print some photos to hang on your
         | wall, it's definitely worth considering metallic paper + face
         | mounted acrylic glass. It has unrivaled "pop" among print
         | options.
         | 
         | I don't know much about photolithography, but a quick search is
         | intriguing. I'll have to put it on my to-learn-about list.
        
       | heyflyguy wrote:
       | Do you have any plans to create 3d modeled maps that are printed
       | on top of 3d printed plastics or sands? I am in the imagery
       | business and have so many people ask for this, I've pondered what
       | it would take many times.
       | 
       | Neat product!
        
       | jpxw wrote:
       | Some (unsolicited) advice (this is HN after all): there's a typo
       | in this post (human's should be humans). There are other more
       | subtle grammar issues in the post, too. Some of the language on
       | the front page could be tightened up too.
       | 
       | The product looks awesome though. I'd probably buy one if I lived
       | in the US.
        
       | gautamcgoel wrote:
       | Do your state maps show cities? From the pics it looked like they
       | only show natural features.
        
         | mparr4 wrote:
         | Nope, the state maps are pure elevation maps. We do have some
         | city maps and are working on more right now (Seattle and LA are
         | in progress).
        
       | mparr4 wrote:
       | Ramble Maps co-owner here. Happy to answer any questions about
       | our process or our maps.
       | 
       | Co-owner and I are long-time HNers. Psyched to be on the front
       | page!
        
         | pottertheotter wrote:
         | Did you two meet through HN?
        
           | mparr4 wrote:
           | Nope. We are friends from high school. He found PGs essays in
           | 2009 and we started our first company together in 2010.
        
         | jacobolus wrote:
         | Your contiguous US-states map (and it seems many of your other
         | maps, though not e.g. the North America map or the world map)
         | uses a cylindrical map projection:
         | https://ramblemaps.com/continental-us-map
         | 
         | This is uncommon (and in my opinion generally a poor choice).
         | What made you settle on that one? Or was it just the existing
         | projection of the data, and you decided not to reproject it?
        
         | neolog wrote:
         | What kind of processing do you do on the data before printing?
        
           | mparr4 wrote:
           | I plan to write another post on that with some images to show
           | the steps, but the process differs a bit between our
           | black+white and our satellite+hillshade images.
           | 
           | For the black and white, we pull in the relevant elevation
           | models, merging various sources as necessary, compose the map
           | (rotate if it helps), choose hillshade angle to highlight
           | desired terrain, then export to photoshop.
           | 
           | Having been doing this for a while now we spend most of our
           | time in Photoshop, adjusting color curves and healing
           | irregularities (there seem to be more for LiDAR than for the
           | standard 1/3 arc second DEM).
           | 
           | For our satellite + hillshade maps the process is a bit more
           | involved. We actually remove the natural hillshade from the
           | source image and add our own. This helps with perception of
           | terrain (humans tend to perceive terrain as inverted if the
           | sunlight is coming from the bottom of the image) and allows
           | us to really play off the metallic print and get some pop.
           | Even more photoshopping for these "maps."
        
         | AdamTReineke wrote:
         | What's the source for your LIDAR data? Publicly available
         | government sets or do you have to commission your own scans?
        
           | mparr4 wrote:
           | All public. At this point if the data doesn't exist, we're
           | out of luck.
           | 
           | I don't anticipate wall art being lucrative enough to
           | commission our own scans. For areas the size of what we tend
           | to map you need an airplane, a drone would take weeks to
           | survey some of them.
        
         | Archelaos wrote:
         | I am not a native English speaker, but I am wondering, why you
         | call the printings "maps". Aren't they rather high resolution
         | satellite images? Wikipedia defines a map as "a symbolic
         | depiction emphasizing relationships between elements of some
         | space, such as objects, regions, or themes."[1]
         | 
         | And are your images really more detailled than cadastral maps
         | (scale 1:1000) that are nowadays recording the location of a
         | boundary stones with a maximum deviation of +-3 to 5 cm?
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | These aren't simply photographs but they do seem to fall on
           | the photographic, rather than the map, end of the scale.
           | Raven Maps is a good source of (large) high quality maps that
           | are more traditionally map-like--though some of theirs are
           | pretty photographically oriented as well.
        
           | mparr4 wrote:
           | Our black and white images (such as the image on the linked
           | article) aren't satellite images at all, they are high
           | resolution elevation models that we've used GIS software to
           | light and create hillshade.
           | 
           | We do have some color images that use satellite imagery and
           | the creation of those images is going to be the subject of my
           | next post. We do things like remove the natural hillshade and
           | apply our own (due to a quirk of human perception where sun
           | coming from below causes terrain to be perceived as inverted)
           | and blending images from different days, etc.
           | 
           | Re: is this really a "map?" That's a comment we get quite a
           | bit, especially in FB comments on our ads. These images are
           | not traditional maps, but a map is a
           | depiction/representation, which these are. Anyway, "map" is
           | certainly shorter than "visual representation of a geographic
           | area" so it's what we go with.
           | 
           | Re: detail. It's all about the size of the area you are
           | printing. Our world map uses 30-meter data, but you'd need to
           | print it on the side of a building to see the limit to the
           | detail. So in our sizes, using 3-5cm data wouldn't improve
           | the maps, you wouldn't be able to see any of that detail. We
           | only make maps if that is true.
        
             | Archelaos wrote:
             | > ... they are high resolution elevation models that we've
             | used GIS software to light and create hillshade.
             | 
             | > ... These images are not traditional maps, but a map is a
             | depiction/representation, which these are. Anyway, "map" is
             | certainly shorter than "visual representation of a
             | geographic area" so it's what we go with.
             | 
             | Okay, that makes sense to a certain degree. Seems what you
             | are doing is innovative enough that it deserves a new
             | category of "map".
             | 
             | Have you considered transfering your methods from the macro
             | to the micro world? If I understand it correctly, you could
             | in principle inverse the zoom factors, like using the
             | elevation model of a coin combined with texture data and a
             | lighting model and printing a much larger version of it on
             | a canvas.
        
         | heleninboodler wrote:
         | Have you considered printing at imagesetter resolutions like
         | 2540 and including a magnifier a la the compact OED?
        
           | mparr4 wrote:
           | I have not. If there's a market for it, I'd do it, but I
           | would guess there isn't.
           | 
           | Might be a cool experiment to try for a map. If nothing else,
           | it sounds fun.
        
             | heleninboodler wrote:
             | I think it could be really amazing for some of your really
             | big maps if you could walk into a room and go "whoa, that's
             | a seriously detailed map" and then get handed the magnifier
             | and go even deeper. Even if you only had super-resolution
             | data for some of the big features stitched in.
        
               | heleninboodler wrote:
               | A raw piece of imagesetter film behind glass or acrylic
               | and in front of a white background would probably look
               | pretty cool (great contrast), although you'd have some
               | mechanical challenges getting it mounted without bubbles.
               | It may require a fairly thick piece of glass to get
               | enough pressure in the center, and it may require a bezel
               | so you can clamp/glue it to the backing securely.
        
       | bujak300 wrote:
       | Amazing. I miss the Alps, would buy them in a heartbeat
        
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