[HN Gopher] Sentenced by Algorithm ___________________________________________________________________ Sentenced by Algorithm Author : prostoalex Score : 25 points Date : 2021-08-02 02:59 UTC (20 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.nybooks.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.nybooks.com) | Nasrudith wrote: | Really thoughts for the topic remain as always: stop letting the | people in power pass the buck to the algorithim. That is the | entire purpose of those algorithms as implemented in the real | world as opposed to some pie in the sky theorist - letting them | escape responsibility. | | I will also note that algorithimic sentencing existed before | computers with sentencing guidelines. | vinsci wrote: | Actually, the headline could be more technically correct written | as "sentenced by algorithm executing on backdoored remotely | controlled computer", as that is the case today. | | Enjoy your dystopia of greed, fraud, and injustice. | [deleted] | onos wrote: | It seems the appropriate method to judge this approach is in | comparison to the baseline referenced at the start: humans making | "black box" judgement calls that are subject to the individual | judge's biases. If the computer programmed decision making were | (already is?) transparent, then we could critique it and work to | ensure something resembling fair is encoded. | ljm wrote: | How would you define 'fair'? I've a few examples, gathered from | being alive and hearing what other people think for a few | decades. | | 1. It's fair to punish someone else if you let another off the | hook | | 2. It's fair to treat someone more harshly if you don't like | what they've done | | 3. It's fair to turn the other cheek because they're a friend | | 4. It's fair to treat someone differently because of where they | came from or their skin colour | | 5. It's fair to give someone a pass because they did you a | favour | | 6. It's fair to be unfair because you owe someone a favour | | 7. It's unfair to be a victim who doesn't get justice | | 8. It's unfair to be an innocent person who is prosecuted for | someone else's crime | | 9. It's unfair to not get what you wait | | 10. It's fair to get what you want | | You will find a variation of all of these examples across the | world right now. | | The point is, fairness is loaded with bias and therefore any | algorithm that tries to deal with 'fairness' is going to | inherit the bias of those who designed it. | nickthemagicman wrote: | You make really good points. Life is bizarre and human | culture is extremely contradictory and difficult to quantify. | | And what's worse our definition of 'fair' maybe advancing | just like culture is constantly advancing. | | African Americans may have been treated poorly by the | algorithm back in the 1700s when they we're considered less | than a full person by the legal system for example. And maybe | in the future drug offenses may be considered not a big deal. | | They call the Constitution a living document. | | This algorithm may have to be a living algorithm. | | What if it was open source and constantly updated and | reviewed to reach consensus? | | There would probably also have to be human appeal processes. | | I definitely think this is intriguing as a first-level | sentencing determination though. | ljm wrote: | > African Americans may have been treated poorly by the | algorithm back in the 1700s | | Fucking hell, man. | geephroh wrote: | "Computer programmed decision making" is anything but | transparent currently. Just look at the example of Northpointe, | Inc.'s COMPAS ("Correctional Offender Management Profiling for | Alternative Sanctions") tool, which purports to measure | recidivism risk. Even under threat of lawsuit, Northpointe | refused to reveal the underlying source because it is a | "protected trade secret."[1] | | Are judges biased? Of course, and that is not acceptable. | However, the answer is not to surrender our system of justice | to unaccountable commercial actors. | | 1. https://www.uclalawreview.org/injustice-ex-machina- | predictiv... ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-08-02 23:00 UTC)