[HN Gopher] Going mouseless ___________________________________________________________________ Going mouseless Author : FelipeCortez Score : 115 points Date : 2021-08-03 03:14 UTC (1 days ago) (HTM) web link (felipecortez.net) (TXT) w3m dump (felipecortez.net) | dainiusse wrote: | Hmm. This sounds like a modern day amish :) i guess some sort of | tiling window manager could better suit it | dotBen wrote: | oh boy. I'm happy to send the OP a mouse from Amazon if they DM | me their address | dolni wrote: | If you're interested in a mouseless browser experience, another | great option is qutebrowser: https://qutebrowser.org/ | toiletaccount wrote: | I've been doing this for the past 15 years. I use bash, tmux, | (n)vim and git. It runs in whatever WM and on any OS I'll | encounter. If your environment is a few simple tools, it's | basically future proof and very portable. I like to keep config | files fairly minimal as well so I don't become dependant on | custom keybinds or functionality. | | Touch screens on laptops have really made things nice for | mouseless browser use. (eg, when you can't keyboard select a | field or button) | trey-jones wrote: | It's a good skill to have. I think sysadmins kind of acquire it | naturally, with much work being done in the terminal. I'm fairly | proficient on my own computer with my own hotkeys, though I'm | sure I could take it further with some effort. I still use a | mouse frequently in the browser, but for the bulk of my work my | hands don't leave the keyboard. | | I'm not sure whether it's significantly faster than an "expert | mouse user" but I also don't think it's slower. I haughtily think | that my killing and yanking is more precise than it would be | clicking, but who knows? | | I think it's kind of a parlor trick really, but it does impress | the younger and less experienced team members to some degree. | amelius wrote: | I'm using a simple Wacom tablet. However, I still switch to the | mouse for some tasks (Inkscape, KiCAD), because of the | scrollwheel (indispensable for quick zooming). | | I wish there was a hybrid solution (e.g. tablet with separate | wheel for zooming) which is easy to set up in Linux. | raihansaputra wrote: | Is there a keynav like utility for MacOS? Maybe a | Karabiner/Hammerspoon other scripts? | | EDIT: I've found some, should be "customizable" with Karabiner | customization on top | | https://github.com/trishume/QuickMouse | | https://github.com/h2ero/XEasyMotion | | https://shortcatapp.com/ | | Some great discussion here: | https://gist.github.com/lornajane/3892c39098cf70baa9c7a1874c... | nathan_phoenix wrote: | You might want to check out Vimac[1], provides system-wide | Vimium tooltips. Not the same as keynav, but imo works even | better. | | [1]: https://github.com/dexterleng/vimac | a-b wrote: | OS X users could try https://github.com/pqrs-org/KE- | complex_modifications/blob/ma... | a-b wrote: | Nicer UI https://ke-complex- | modifications.pqrs.org/?q=Mouse%20Keys%20... | asymptosis wrote: | I remember trying this a decade ago with uzbl and vimperator. It | was okay for a while, but uzbl unfortunately failed to gain | momentum, and vimperator was nixxed more and more for various | reasons. | | The article in the link makes it sound like vimium is the last | holdout of the resistance. It would be nice if it were possible | to have other options again. | square_usual wrote: | On Firefox, Tridactyl is actively developed and very feature | rich. The only minor annoyance I have with it is that it | sometimes overrides shortcuts other webapps have defined, which | makes it difficult to work with eg. linear.app or RES for | reddit. You _can_ blacklist sites from Tridactyl, but then you | have to choose between only native shortcuts, which can miss | some crucial actions but are otherwise better than tridactyl, | or only tridactyl. | bovine3dom wrote: | I think bindurl and unbindurl would solve most of your | complaints: if you just want a few Tridactyl binds use | blacklistadd then `:bindurl [URL] --mode=ignore ...`; if you | want just a few webapp binds use `:unbindurl [URL] ...`. | | There's also Ctrl-v in normal mode that lets you send one key | sequence to ignore mode - I use it on YouTube with `Ctrl-v f` | to toggle fullscreen. Ctrl-o works similarly but for normal | mode from ignore mode. | square_usual wrote: | Hey, awesome to get a reply from you! Thanks for all your | work on tridactyl, it's made life a lot easier! | bovine3dom wrote: | You're welcome, glad you like it! | | I managed to get ctrl-o/v the wrong way round when I | first posted it, but I've fixed it now : ) | alpaca128 wrote: | On Firefox there's also Surfingkeys. I've been using that for | the last year or so. Can't remember the exact reason I switched | but it's been working well so far. | nodejs_rulez_1 wrote: | Now go fingerless on your smartphone. Oh, we make an exception | there do we? | toast0 wrote: | Physical keyboards on smart phones were glorious. Not all the | apps would let you go through fields using only the keyboard | (and some keyboards didn't have enough navigation keys, | anyway), but when it worked well, it worked well. | | Sadly, it cost money to include a keyboard, so the race to the | bottom means you can't find them anymore. Just like real back | buttons. | sillyquiet wrote: | I think the snark is overboard, but I get what you are saying - | but I will defend the article in that it's a neat experiment | and it sort of highlights gaps in accessibility, like others in | the thread have noted. | | However, my first computer was a Commodore 64 and I currently | have a Commodore 64 emulator I love playing around with - and | doing everything in keyboard commands is a pita for things like | word processors and spreadsheets even when you have the | shortcuts in muscle memory. | | There's a reason the mouse was so successful. | CharlesW wrote: | For anyone considering doing this for speed reasons: | | _We've done a cool $50 million of R &D on the Apple Human | Interface. We discovered, among other things, two pertinent | facts:_ | | _* Test subjects consistently report that keyboarding is faster | than mousing._ | | _* The stopwatch consistently proves mousing is faster than | keyboarding._ | | _This contradiction between user-experience and reality | apparently forms the basis for many user /developers' belief that | the keyboard is faster._ | | https://www.asktog.com/TOI/toi06KeyboardVMouse1.html | orzig wrote: | As with so many things, worth noting that 'people' vary widely | across every relevant spectrum, and I can't imagine that the | median hasn't also shifted since (checks notes) 1989 (!!!) | xyzzy123 wrote: | I wonder if this is due to the mouse requiring a sort of | constant attentional feedback loop as you look at the screen | and guide it where to go. | | Even if it's subconscious and technically faster, or even an | illusion - I _feel_ like mouse is consuming more cognitive | resources. | | The feedback loop with keyboard can feel quite different, in | flow it feels like you issue commands and look for immediate | response. | | Also, when doing a _repetitive_ task you quickly pick up key | rhythms and patterns without needing prodigous memory to recall | every possible "shortcut". | | What I am not sure the user interface testing covered is making | users perform the same task 50 times per day. | | I don't think that using keyboard to control mouse has the same | advantages as a keyboard-native interface. | strogonoff wrote: | The essence of the difference between keyboard and mouse | interfaces is simply that the mouse introduces that extra | mechanical layer between user's intent and internal APIs, but | offers the advantage of discoverability. | | That advantage and disadvantage tradeoff heavily depends on | the nature of core functionality, how it's mapped to the UI | by the developer/designer, and user's overall experience and | familiarity with software. | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: | I have been mouseless for over 30 years. (The office being the | exception but I still use it minimally.) | | The issue is not speed, it's control. Precision, if you will. I | can automate repeated tasks with the keyboard. Doing that with | the mouse is beyond awkward; it's counterintuitive. | | Mouse is for interaction. Keyboard is for automation. | | (Obviously for some tasks, e.g., ones involving graphics, we | need a mouse.) | | Is automation faster than interaction. You tell me. Try doing | everything your computer does by hand. I will give you $50 | million for your efforts. Then report back with your | discoveries. | | Generally no one (seriously) programs a computer exclusively | with a mouse. A keyboard is used. Surely, there must be a | reason for this. | | Of course, the "tech" company model of the world needs users to | not be programmers. The mouse is taken as a signal "we have a | human on the line". Automation is taken as a signal "it's a | bot". Truly, the only significant difference between the two is | that it is far more difficult to manipulate, analyse and serve | ads to "bots" and charge advertisers money for it. Users who | can program the computer to automate tasks can escape online | advertising and tracking in ways that others cannot. | nicoburns wrote: | > Generally no one (seriously) programs a computer with point | and click, drag or touch. A keyboard is used. Surely, there | must be a reason for this. | | I certainly use a keyboard to program, but I also make good | use of my mouse (well, touchpad) for text selection, changing | windows, etc. | zck wrote: | This article also says: | | > It takes two seconds to decide upon which special-function | key to press. Deciding among abstract symbols is a high-level | cognitive function. Not only is this decision not boring, the | user actually experiences amnesia! Real amnesia! The time-slice | spent making the decision simply ceases to exist. | | That's not my experience at all. Once you learn a keyboard | shortcut, it doesn't take two seconds to recall it. Were his | tests on expert users, or on beginners? | Taylor_OD wrote: | Well it depends on how often you use it. There are a handful | of shortcuts I use... Once every other week? It certainly | takes me a second or two to remember exactly how to do it. | Even if I've used them on and off for years. | | Sure ctrl z everyones got down. But what about alt k to kill | that one process in that one program you have to keep fixing | for that one client? | hutzlibu wrote: | "Sure ctrl z everyones got down. " | | Not really. | smoe wrote: | Sure, but one of my most commonly used keyboard short cuts | is the one that pops up a fuzzy search over all the | available actions/settings. Whereas with the mouse i have | to dig trough a ton of sub menus and often even have to | google to find what I want. | chaps wrote: | It takes two seconds to decide upon which special-function key | to press. Deciding among abstract symbols is a high-level | cognitive function. Not only is this decision not boring, the | user actually experiences amnesia! Real amnesia! The time-slice | spent making the decision simply ceases to exist. | | Hmm. Not to be "that vim guy", but when those | navigation/search/etc become muscle memory, it's not really a | high level function anymore to do things like searching.. at | least in terms path decideability. The sort of amnesia they | talk about here happens to me whenever I need to pull my hands | away from the keyboard. Though, their study probably didn't | have that many opinionated text editor nerds. | intrepidhero wrote: | I can't find it just now but I thought there was a followup | study that looked only at operators familiar with the interface | and in that case the results were overwhelmingly in favor of | keyboarding (as most of us would expect). | accurateappL wrote: | I use tridactyl on firefox and it works very well. | arpa wrote: | I went readless on mobile. Text doesn't wrap, can't zoom out to | fit lines into view... | FelipeCortez wrote: | Sorry about that. I wrote the style sheet in a hurry and forgot | to test it on mobile, although zooming out worked for me. | auslegung wrote: | Same here, but I turned on reader mode on mobile Safari and was | able to read it | bartvk wrote: | Firefox has a neat trick to only search in links. Press ' | (single-quote) and at the bottom, a text input field appears with | the hint "Quick find (links only)". Type two or three characters | will focus the link in question, just press enter to navigate. | janus24 wrote: | I'm using the US International keyboard mapping, to type ' I | have to type ' + space. The goal is to add the possibility to | wrote letters like e (' + e). | | So this doesn't work for me and it doesn't seem possible to | change the shortcut on Firefox :( | jolmg wrote: | There's a variant of the US layout called altgr-intl where | instead of making ' a dead key you can do RightAlt-e for e. | pge wrote: | ctrl-shift will switch back and forth between selected | keyboards in windows, so you can keep the keyboard in ENG US | most of the time (allowing you to use the ' shortcut in | Firefox), and use ctrl-shift to switch to ENG INTL when | needed. | jbaber wrote: | Discovered this when some vim-like plugin failed. Realized it's | about 90% of the reason I was using a vim-like plugin. | thomasahle wrote: | I just tried using it when I realized I couldn't upvote your | comment as the link has no text. | | Back to vimium. | dictum wrote: | Slightly more involved, but still serviceable: | | - start typing the text on a link near the icon you want to | click (for this comment, `thomasa`...) | | - then press Shift+Tab to highlight the previous link | nextos wrote: | Vimperator provided an incredible Vim-like experience for | Firefox. | | Sadly, the transition to a new plugin architecture killed it | and Tridactyl doesn't come even close. Some things are not | possible with the new Firefox APIs, and many websites steal | keyboard focus thereby ruining the Vim-like experience. | Really frustrating. | tejohnso wrote: | I ditched my vim-like plugin when I realized I could ctrl-f, | ctrl-enter to follow links in chrome. | dagw wrote: | Wow, TIL. Thanks! | petepete wrote: | Thank you so much for this. Used it since more or less day one | and never knew about this feature. | globular-toast wrote: | This used to pair nicely with "/" which opens up the normal | quick search. Unfortunately this is broken on the "modern" web | as many web pages "helpfully" override the "/" key to make it | go to their search box which, of course, is not at all what | that key should do. There doesn't seem to be any way to stop | web pages stealing this key and I've slowly learnt to use the | comparatively clumsy "Ctrl+F" instead as I'm too scared to try | "/" now. | bennyp101 wrote: | Not sure if it's a feature or not, but setting the page | permissions for "Override keyboard shortcuts" still allows | '/' to work, but will disable 'esc' for closing the search | modal/popout - and as '/' is a keyboard shortcut, I have no | idea why it still lets the site take it over | stronglikedan wrote: | Heck, MDN themselves is even guilty of this. It's maddening. | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28051562 | Grumbledour wrote: | I wasn't even aware / was for quick search. I always used | Ctrl+F, which is incidentally much easier on my localized | keyboard. But trying it right now, I notice that / and Ctrl+F | opens different dialogs? One is called "Quick Find", the | other "Find in Page", with the latter offering additional | options, even though both seem to do the same thing? What is | up with that? | tintt wrote: | Interesting, up to this day I thought that browser search is | Cmd/Ctrl+F and webapp search is typically "/". I got used to | that to the point that I find it convenient. | swalladge wrote: | > Unfortunately this is broken on the "modern" web as many | web pages "helpfully" override the "/" key | | Argh this kind of thing makes me really cross. So many sites | seem to feel the need to reimplement things that are already | part of most browsers or even in the spec. It's not just | overridng default shortcuts, but custom context/rightclick | menus, custom 'links' (where clicking them runs javascript | code to window.open, instead of being a real link), custom | form fields that advertise 'excellent accessibility', where | the fields would have been accessible anyway if they didn't | decide to reimplement them, disabling text selection, | overriding focus styles because the accessible styles 'look | ugly' ... the 'modern' web is pain. | | Anyway, this wasn't going to be a rant. My point was going to | be that consistency is key. Your comment on '"Ctrl+F" instead | as I'm too scared to try "/" now' really resonated with me, | because I've thought about this before. I've found that a | feature or shortcut is only useful if it's consistent. I | can't build muscle memory or be confident using a feature if | it only works 90% of the time. Or even 99%. | | I've tried tridacyl and other vim-style plugins for browsers | several times in the past, but always end up uninstalling | them in disappointment, because it's not possible to have a | consistent experience. 99% of the time it works perfectly, | but then there are the handful of sites or browser specific | pages (eg. about: or view-source:) where it doesn't work at | all, or doesn't work consistently so one must disable it. | Then muscle memory totally breaks; you need to learn two sets | of keybindings for the same context, and that introduces a | hesitation for every keypress, which kills speed and | enjoyment. | sseagull wrote: | I've always had in mind "you can't have simplicity without | consistency". Applies to user interfaces, code structure, | and APIs as well. | | The more consistent something is, the less you have to | remember. But it can be really hard to do things | consistently for various reasons. | i_s wrote: | I mostly agree, but every now and then there is actually a | good reason to override/re-implement them. For example, let | us say you are using virtualized components [0], so all | available elements have not necessarily been rendered to | the DOM (making Control-F useless). | | [0] - https://github.com/bvaughn/react-virtualized | williamdclt wrote: | Special mentions to the github actions log output, which not | only overrides ctrl+f with their own search, but have a | completely broken search. Which means logs are unsearchable. | Thanks a lot. | tux3 wrote: | Does it open the browser search if you press ^F a second | time? | wging wrote: | Unless they're doing something wonky like hiding content | that is not in the viewport (thus reimplementing | scrolling), you may be able to work around that by using | ctrl-f from the URL bar, denying them the opportunity to | hijack ctrl-f. So ctrl-l ctrl-f. | MiddleEndian wrote: | A Firefox extension I want (or maybe I'll make one day) | would be one that prevents javascript from detecting any | key input while holding right ctrl or left ctrl | specifically. | nicholasjarr wrote: | Wow! One more reason to stick with Firefox. Thanks! | manaskarekar wrote: | Thanks, this is awesome. I totally expect to rely on this | feature after using it for a few weeks and expect Mozilla to | yank it out for usability reasons. | agumonkey wrote: | I so forgot about this. Incredible. | fleaaaa wrote: | Vimium extension(I don't even use vim) and split keyboard | browsing experience is such a god-send to me, maybe I should | donate some to these dev.. | ndand wrote: | My attempt to make a practical keyboard-driven cursor app for | Windows: | | https://github.com/ndandoulakis/SlickCursor | alpb wrote: | For macOS, if you like Vimium, you'll like Vimac | https://vimacapp.com/ as well. It supersedes vimium but vimium is | still better while working in the browser context. | | I'm also actively trying to go mouseless and Vimium+Vimac and | setting custom keybindings to move/click my mouse on my ZSA | Moonlander keyboard are currently helping me excellently. | | In many cases, moving your hand to the mouse, finding the cursor, | moving it and clicking it is a lot slower than a keystroke combo | like F-SD. | enricozb wrote: | If you're on linux, consider trying a tiling wm like i3 [0] or | sway (wayland) [1]. New windows automatically place themselves in | a nice place and don't overlap. It's extremely (if not entirely) | keyboard driven and pretty configurable. | | [0]: https://i3wm.org/ | | [1]: https://swaywm.org/ | michaelcampbell wrote: | Last time I checked there was no equivalent to these, or any | sort of actual tiling manager in MacOS; is this still the case? | (For anyone to answer, if you know.) | ggm wrote: | https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai | bpanon wrote: | Amethyst is pretty good | samhh wrote: | I think that was replaced by Rectangle. | jchw wrote: | Whenever I _don't_ have a mouse, I notice. Immediately. | | Been staying in hotels recently. The wifi login for IHG hotels | varies a bit, but often has either tabs or a checkbox that is not | keyboard accessible because it is not part of the focus order. | Obviously this sucks for people with disabilities, but it also | sucks for people with Android TV devices (in my case, a | Chromecast.) Now obviously, one of those things is more important | than the other (although unfortunately, I bet I know which | complaint would be more likely to lead to a change.) | | So yeah, I've always got a bluetooth keyboard/mouse combo for | this reason. (It's a bit pricey, but a K830 works well.) It's a | bit sad that websites and apps are so careless with | accessibility, but unfortunately, for that reason, it's hard to | truly go mouseless. At least this page describes how to set up a | virtual mouse, because yeah, you're going to need it. | whall6 wrote: | Investment bankers are judged for using the mouse when using | excel. It's a rite of passage to be completely mouseless | agumonkey wrote: | I remember some finance dude handling excel like a korean gamer | playing starcraft, it was as exciting as humbling. | f00zz wrote: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xubbVvKbUfY | agumonkey wrote: | wrong link | 908B64B197 wrote: | Intern: Uses the mouse | | Junior: TrackPoint | | Senior: Keyboard Only | | Partner: Has someone else use the computer | zerop wrote: | Same thing happened to me quite a while ago when my mouse didn't | work consistently and started exploring keyboard ways of doing | all work... and it did improve my keyboard shortcut awareness and | usages. I still use them... I feel that keystroke of older | keyboards was better than modern laptops. The key press was | longer and somehow I like it more than modern ones. | salamandersauce wrote: | Surprised there was no mention of using a tiling window manager | like Xmonad, RatPoison etc. That can really cut down on mice | usage. | HKH2 wrote: | Even just using shortcut keys to tile windows is better than | using a mouse. | matsemann wrote: | Using a Rollermouse, I never have to leave home-row when moving | the pointer, so not such a loss of time compared to a normal | mouse. The mouse-bar is just a centimeter off the space bar, so I | just move it around with my thumbs. Index+thumb if I need more | precision. No more elbow pain as well. | thom wrote: | This is what I liked about the old ThinkPad nipples. I would | still buy a laptop with that setup and no trackpad, tbh. | jbay808 wrote: | New ThinkPads still have these! They have trackpads too but | you can disable them in the bios to avoid accidental clicks. | thom wrote: | Yeah I just genuinely want the option of no touchpad at | all, the much loved X200 was the last mode that offered | this. | Koshkin wrote: | I use text-mode links whenever I can, works great (even on | Windows [0]). | | [0] http://links.twibright.com/download/binaries/win32/ | anthk wrote: | Doable with cwm (window manager with being everything manageable | with a keyboard), st (pick any terminal here), tmux (better than | spawning lots of terminals) and vimb (keybindings based web | browser, but you can use the mouse if you want too) under | BSD/Linux. | | It helps against RSI. | smoldesu wrote: | For me, the key to "mouseless" is going to be the Tex Shinobi[0]. | I haven't quite worked up the confidence to buy one yet | (partially because current mechanical keyboard still works | frustratingly well), but I look forwards to the day I could get | something like this for TrackPoint synergy across all my typing | surfaces. | | [0] https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi | nathan_phoenix wrote: | If you're using MacOS and are looking for system-wide Vimium, | checkout out Vimac[1]. Works really well! | | [1]: https://github.com/dexterleng/vimac | hultner wrote: | I tried it about a year back and it was missing to much back | then to be usable day to day for me. Took a look again now and | it does look like there's a lot of improvements, will have to | give it another go. | spfzero wrote: | This looks cool, especially hint mode. Wondering what scroll | mode adds though, compared to just using the existing Mac OS | shortcuts (or Pg Up/Pg Dn) | Aromasin wrote: | I've used the ZSA Moonlander (https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/) as | my main driver for the past 6 months, except I've replaced the | right hand thumb pad with a custom mouse mod. I basically pulled | the electronics from a Logitec trackball mouse and machined a | casing for it to clip to the keyboard once the thumb buttons are | removed. | | It's been wonderful. I'm reaching the stage where I'm just as | dexterous now with my thumb as I was with my regular mouse, and | my right hand isn't constantly searching for the home row when I | return to type. I can't recommend it enough. | mariusor wrote: | The guys at Ultimate Hacking Keyboard have a trackball | module[1] for their split keyboard that uses the same idea. | | [1] https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/product/trackball | sithadmin wrote: | As a fellow Moonlander user, I'd love to see a write-up of what | you did. | fullyforged wrote: | This sounds really interesting! Do you have photos/a link to | share? | speedgoose wrote: | It's a lot easier with a touchscreen. | swader999 wrote: | What I want is a very small thumb trackball mouse that I can | stick right in the middle of my truly ergonomic cleave keyboard. | darnir wrote: | The Ultimate Hackers Keyboard has exactly that as a module you | can attach to the keyboard. | swader999 wrote: | It does it does! Very tempted. | taxcoder wrote: | Thanks for the keynav pointer. I switched from a mouse to a | trackball due to shoulder pain, and it has really helped. Still, | anytime I can use the keyboard instead of the mouse it makes me | happy. | agumonkey wrote: | I'm at a courthouse, their software is web based and it's so | horrendously inefficient. They tried to make a few keybindings | but it's mostly mouse driven. Not even Enter to submit the main | form. Gah. Lead dev please remember how fast a keyboard is and | how important it is to go swift on simple jobs duties. Ergonomy | and efficiency. | alkonaut wrote: | A mouse or trackpad is a 2D input device. Unless you have a 2D | input problem (dragging nodes in a graph, drawing a free form | curve, selecting a point on a map...) then it was never the right | tool to begin with. | | Navigating discrete UI elements or making simple UI actions of | the kind that can be mapped to keyboard input - that's easily | doable with a keyboard. Occasionally it's just a tad harder with | keyboard than with mouse (web pages are notoriously useless with | keyboard) but it's _possible_. | | I wouldn't last a day without going crazy without a mouse though. | People who say they have gone mouseless also seem to argue they | have zero 2D input and basically use text and ignore all other | workloads. That's not exactly solving the problem (not that I | think it can be solved any better than just using a mouse!) | CharlesW wrote: | > _Unless you have a 2D input problem..._ | | Are not most GUIs are a 2D input mechanism? | alkonaut wrote: | Sort of (depends on terminology): A form is a set of controls | laid out in 2D. But they are ordered and discrete so you can | just ignore their positioning in x,y and instead navigate in | their order instead (e.g tabbing through controls) making it | a 1D input! | | By "2D input" in this context I mean input where there isn't | also such a navigation option and you _must_ input one or | more coordinates and there is no way to enter the coordinates | as numbers. For example the input surface (image) in a | drawing program like Microsoft paint. | auggierose wrote: | Random access vs. sequential access. Guess which one is | more efficient? | arksingrad wrote: | It depends on the GUI. | | For photo editing, the interactions with the photo directly | require fine control in two dimensions with the cursor. | | Many GUIs are just interfaces to modal switches, or a | categorical variable with usually a finite number of options. | enriquto wrote: | yes. But text UIs are, arguably, infinite-dimensional | (because language is). Thus a 2D input problem is a severely | limited particular case, that allows for very specific and | useful optimizations helped by a mouse, pad or trackball. | user3939382 wrote: | Keyboard is faster when instructing the computer for actions that | you execute all the time. For situations where it's practical to | learn a keyboard input, it's great. | | Where this interface paradigm breaks down are in contexts where | the input is novel. Keyboard shortcuts and commands have a | discoverability problem that has not been commonly solved in way | that makes them faster than the mouse for new/rare users. | cle wrote: | Take care of your hands. I went on a crusade to go mouseless a | few years ago, and eventually it resulted in RSI from typing so | much. Focus on your posture, take breaks, stretch your hands and | fingers, get an ergonomic keyboard, etc. | | An under-appreciated benefit of using a mouse (as a programmer) | is that it "switches things up" on your hands so that you aren't | doing the same repetitive motions all day long. You can be | marginally faster with a mouseless workflow, but you're | definitely not very productive when you can't type for months due | to RSI. | cainxinth wrote: | My computer-related RSI prevention tips: | | Get separate mouse and keyboard wrist rests. | | Use a vertical mouse instead of a traditional one. | | Use more than one type of mousing device and switch up from | time to time. Graphic tablets with digital pens take some | getting used to but are excellent. | | Look up RSI forearm stretches and take breaks to stretch your | arms and hands for a few moments at least every few hours. I'm | also a big fan of gyro ball exercisers. | | Get an ergonomic chair with movable arm rests that can keep | your arms at around the same height as the desk your working | at. | jxramos wrote: | I second the alternation idea, I have something like 4 input | devices I alternate between to "spread the load" across | different limbs and body parts. People experiment with | different keyboard layouts too that basically remap the | characters to different keys on the keyboard. | | * roller mouse * left hand vertical mouse * right hand | vertical mouse * trackpad * foot pedal | treeman79 wrote: | Started having severe wrist pain 20 year ago. I got a bean | bag wrist pad. No pain ever so long as I use bran bag ones. | Comes back quick without. | nikivi wrote: | I do similar but on mac and using Safari. | https://github.com/televator-apps/vimari is great for this. | | So is Karabiner (https://wiki.nikitavoloboev.xyz/macos/macos- | apps/karabiner) to map opening apps to two keys. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-08-04 23:01 UTC)