[HN Gopher] Tools for Thinking
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Tools for Thinking
        
       Author : juliend2
       Score  : 219 points
       Date   : 2021-08-24 17:34 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.juliendesrosiers.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.juliendesrosiers.com)
        
       | civilized wrote:
       | Does anyone get anything out of mind-map visualizations?
       | Everybody loves to show a screencap of their latest diagram, with
       | all the circles and colorful connector lines, but do they ever
       | actually help anyone realize anything?
       | 
       | In my experience, this sort of visualization is good for mapping
       | out an actual complex, sequential/staged process (and for that,
       | one would instead use actual dedicated diagram maker apps). But
       | other than that, it seems to be mostly for note-taking app makers
       | to show off to show how cool their app is.
        
         | symkat wrote:
         | > do they ever actually help anyone realize anything?
         | 
         | Mind maps help me realize things. I use a conference room
         | whiteboard rather than an app.
         | 
         | Starting with asking a question as the root node like "Goals?"
         | and then putting goals around that, and then from those goals,
         | things I'd need to do to accomplish them. "Obligations?" and
         | writing out various people/places/things I have obligations to,
         | and then next what it means to fulfill those obligations.
         | 
         | Being able to look at it all on the whiteboard and pace around
         | a bit seems to be very useful for me. This type of thing helps
         | me sort things out and frequently I have realizations during it
         | that make things more clear.
         | 
         | I mostly do project planning in outlines, but sometimes I will
         | break out the whiteboard. Sometimes those are mind maps and
         | will make me see missing pieces; frequently, I suppose they're
         | diagrams and may not count.
        
           | civilized wrote:
           | Have you ever tried doing this with a plain text Markdown
           | file with hierarchy (headers/subheaders)? or an outlining
           | tool (emacs org-mode etc)? or a spreadsheet? What do you see
           | as the advantages of the mind-map method?
        
             | symkat wrote:
             | I've used all of those to organize ideas for different
             | things. Markdown files with hierarchy for planning blog
             | articles, talks. An outlining tool (OmniOutliner or vim
             | with * and indentations) for project planning from building
             | things to cleaning my office. Spreadsheets for figuring out
             | how I'm managing time and using the cells to represent time
             | I'm awake in the week.
             | 
             | I think the advantage of the mind map is using it as a tool
             | to explore things I'm not entirely sure about and get more
             | depth on them. Like in my examples, I choose Goals and
             | Obligations as things I had used mind mapping for
             | exploring. Once I have some of them written on the
             | whiteboard, more like items start to come to mind that
             | might not otherwise. I might also be conflating the value
             | of any of the elements of this -- pacing in front of the
             | whiteboard, it being a more physical representation by
             | being big and hand-drawn, that it starts to look a bit like
             | a puzzle. Then it starts to present all of these questions.
             | Like after mapping out what my obligations were, it made
             | sense to ask, "well, why?", and then tie those to core
             | reasons, which started to get into agreements, which then
             | made me think about agreements. Why do we form agreements?
             | In a way, I suppose it's giving me space to go on a
             | somewhat controlled and documented deep dive into my
             | thoughts.
        
               | civilized wrote:
               | Thank you! This resonates a lot with my experience. In
               | particular, sometimes making writing more of a physical
               | exercise is helpful.
        
         | ssss11 wrote:
         | They've helped me in the past realise project/idea scope -
         | breaking it down. Although I often do that breaking down with
         | heirarchical lists... mind maps aren't a game changer for me.
        
         | memling wrote:
         | There's this scene in Finding Forrester where Sean Connery
         | marks up a manuscript with the phrase "constipated thinking."
         | Mind mapping for me is a way to grease the skids, as it were,
         | since the hardest part in organizing thoughts is just getting
         | them down. While I prefer pen and paper--the tactile sense of
         | it helps me--the mind map is a useful tool for taking what is
         | essentially a disorganized mass of thoughts and figuring out
         | how to organize it.
        
       | phailhaus wrote:
       | Highly recommend Workflowy (https://workflowy.com/). Its core
       | idea is just recursive lists. Everything is a list, and every
       | bullet can be expanded to become a top-level list. I've found
       | this to be the most natural way for me to organize information,
       | and there is a satisfying symmetry to it.
       | 
       | The developers are also clearly careful when adding new features,
       | since they always compose well with existing functionality and
       | create a multiplier effect on productivity.
        
         | Dyac wrote:
         | +1. I've been using it for the best part of a decade. I've
         | tried other things but always come back to workflowy.
         | 
         | It was kinda stagnant for years, but in the past year or so
         | there's been a lot of new features.
         | 
         | In think it's a YC company too, so the developers are probably
         | here...
        
           | phailhaus wrote:
           | Mirroring + templates is a gamechanger. Being able to create
           | boards is also really nice; whoever realized that lists are
           | isomorphic to boards is a genius. You can switch between the
           | two seamlessly without ever being afraid of losing
           | information or causing unintended side effects!
           | 
           | Just waiting for it to support reminders, at which point I
           | feel like I could use it for everything.
        
           | rolleiflex wrote:
           | I suspect the new features starting to come into Workflowy
           | last year is due to Roam Research which came out about then,
           | and has largely been at best a slight improvement over
           | Workflowy.
           | 
           | I do use Roam personally, but they were very hamfisted with
           | their monetisation effort early on, which left a bad taste in
           | my my mouth. If I were starting today, I would use Workflowy
           | and be paying them instead. From what I can see, it is the
           | more carefully built product.
        
       | candyman wrote:
       | I love tools and have tried so many over the past year including
       | these new "hot" ones like Roam and Notion. After all that I have
       | come full circle and reinvested in making Evernote work better
       | for me. It has limitations but has always had a big edge in the
       | capture and storage part of the process. I'm still working on how
       | best to author/render content from my work to the outside world
       | but at least with Evernote I can get things in one place and then
       | add notes, content, analysis where I can find it. I agree with
       | some here that it's still hard to beat pen and paper for really
       | creative stuff - it's so free.
        
         | cyberge99 wrote:
         | I've been seeking a drop-in replacement for EN. These days I
         | use 'Evernote Legacy' because the new Evernote is horrible.
         | 
         | I'll use it until they kill it. I've seen a few good "almost
         | there" replacements, but each have their own quirks.
        
           | egypturnash wrote:
           | Same. I just canceled my EN subscription; it refreshed
           | _right_ before New EN, and I gave them until renewal to get
           | that working. It's still garbage and I have completely lost
           | the habit of using it because I can't revert to the old iOS
           | app and have to use the slow, awkward new one.
           | 
           | I am currently evaluating Joplin as a maybe. It is webshit in
           | an Electron wrapper but I think the only note app that isn't
           | webshit that I can use to collaborate with my Windows/Android
           | using husband is Microsoft's; it did a shit job of keeping my
           | formatting last time I tried it, plus I hate the way it wants
           | every note to be a text box floating in an infinite canvas.
           | 
           | I still have to actually check out Joplin's collaboration,
           | that only seems to work if you're paying for their sync
           | service instead of using something else.
           | 
           | Joplin also has a plug-in to do what EN couldn't do in an
           | entire decade: give you a nice diff UI for dealing with
           | conflicting changes.
           | 
           | (My requirements: cross platform collaboration, decent EN
           | import, not be webshit, deal gracefully with notes with PDFs
           | and images in them.)
        
           | kibbleble wrote:
           | I've been using Simple Note: https://simplenote.com/
           | 
           | It's good enough for me. I don't think I've ever used
           | Evernote's advanced features because I'm too lazy to organize
           | things into books. It seems like they have an Evernote Import
           | feature?
        
         | dxgarnish wrote:
         | What I've discovered is that the real breakthroughs needed in
         | these tools aren't in the "taking" of notes but in the
         | "retrieval" of notes/ideas.
        
       | zikani_03 wrote:
       | I use Notepad++ like the author to keep a big a** text file but
       | split it into separate files per quarter; they typically contain
       | ideas which then make it to Notion if I'm really excited about
       | them. But it's really hard to commit to online tools over
       | simplicity of a git repo full of text files.
       | 
       | I also have a text file with 'comments from HN' which I revisit
       | randomly and prompts either research or just nice trivia.. so
       | thank y'all ;)
        
       | ultra_nick wrote:
       | There are different types of note taking. For random items, I use
       | lists like Trello. For lots of non-transferrable knowledge, I use
       | a wiki like Notion.
       | 
       | I haven't liked the note taking tools for learning, so I've been
       | building a prototype to do it better. It's like Roam, but is
       | planned to be crowd sourced and self organizing.
       | https://www.conceptionary.app/
        
       | dariusj18 wrote:
       | Ok, so this seems like a great thread to ask this question.
       | 
       | I want a research tool with the following features:
       | - Collaborative       - Cloud based with offline mode (changes
       | can be synced back up)       - History         - Separate
       | workspaces/projects       - The repository would be "taggable",
       | meaning that after I set all the notes in a project as "v1" I can
       | interact with the research with that snapshot, further when I
       | create a "v2" I can see everything that has changed since "v1".
       | - Media files (images) can be added
       | 
       | Secondary concerns                 - The ability to "comment" in
       | a collaborative manner.         - an API to extract the data
       | - Native apps       - Dead simple end user workflow, (ex, don't
       | have to run git commands)       - Simple user permissions (ex.
       | read only, contributor, admin)
        
       | kaliszad wrote:
       | A friend of mine today just wrote to me about Kinopio, whether
       | have been bought by some SV firm and it was our new brand. I can
       | assure you, it couldn't be further from the truth - OrgPad.com is
       | in my mind way more advanced and overall better designed tool for
       | both small things and complex thoughts. It is used a lot by
       | anybody from school children to top managers, specialists and
       | academics. What we do much better than most tools in my mind is
       | design of the user experience and simplicity, where we have been
       | inspired by 40 years of research of Zdenek Hedrlin PhD.,
       | Clojure(Script) the programming language we use and Apple when
       | there was still Steve Jobs around.
       | 
       | We don't fear to do hard engineering to improve the user
       | experience. We calculate differential equations on most
       | animations in real time to simulate dampened spring movements.
       | This is quite fast. Together with parts of the rendering
       | rewritten into canvas rendering (e.g. links), OrgPad is now a lot
       | faster than before. We have auto-resize and topologically mostly
       | stable auto-layout, we support rich multimedia in OrgPages,
       | images (even with transparency), iframes so you can embed other
       | OrgPages, videos or even e.g. Google Spreadsheets or Calendar in
       | the canvas. You can read an overview directly in OrgPad here:
       | https://orgpad.com/s/VjMKIa7bfnN
       | 
       | And no, OrgPad is not trying to be a graph database more or less
       | like Roam-research or a Zettelkasten clone. It is oriented more
       | towards those, that think visually and want to mirror their
       | brains in a natural way to have an opportunity to step back and
       | look at it.
       | 
       | To be most transparent: You can try OrgPad for free. We will
       | introduce the pricing on 29th of August (in a few days from now)
       | but leave a limited free tier without adds forever. The standard
       | tier will cost ~5 EUR/ month and include 5 GB of storage and most
       | OrgPad features although limited. The professional tier for ~10
       | EUR/month will include all the bells and whistles plus 10 GB of
       | storage and priority support. Until now, we have worked on the
       | product itself - we are not a traditional startup, so we can
       | afford this less traditional approach.
       | 
       | I hope, this will be understood as a frank recommendation for a
       | tool, that might solve the readers problem in a more fitting way.
        
       | crabl wrote:
       | This is likely a result of me working in a corporate bureaucracy
       | over the last few years, but I've observed executives using
       | PowerPoint for the purpose of articulating and iterating on their
       | thoughts, and it goes without saying that PowerPoint is
       | ubiquitous (for good or for ill) when it comes to communicating
       | those ideas to a wider audience.
       | 
       | It seems to me that the tools for thought community generally
       | rallies around Excel as the best example of a "bicycle for the
       | mind" due to its functional-reactive nature and its programmable
       | core, but I feel like PowerPoint has made an equal contribution
       | to the democratization of "augmenting collective intelligence"
       | due to its affordances around outlining and presentation.
        
         | ssss11 wrote:
         | At my corporate job I oscillate between PowerPoint, word and
         | excel depending on how I envision I'll need to use the
         | information. Often PowerPoint (as a presentation will be
         | needed), but if I need to go to a detailed level excel is the
         | go to, unless I need to write lots of words, then I'll use
         | word.
         | 
         | For notes, heirarchical notes and to do lists, I flip around
         | between many tools.. ugh. Often just paper too.
        
         | hyferg wrote:
         | I recently interviewed some PhDs, postdocs, and professors for
         | whom powerpoint was used as a tool for thought as well.
        
       | tin7in wrote:
       | Saga: https://saga.so
       | 
       | - Automatic hyperlinking - When you mention another page, a link
       | is created on the go
       | 
       | - Aliases - A page can have multiple titles
       | 
       | - Properties - Meta data on page level
        
       | vczf wrote:
       | Instead of a big-ass text file, I recently started a 3-part memo
       | system: (1) an Olympus VN541-PC voice recorder for thoughts while
       | driving; (2) a pocket memo pad for notes where extra working
       | memory is needed for thinking, like tables or lists; (3) a
       | memo.txt file synced with my primary devices for convenience.
       | 
       | I've found this approach extremely powerful because I no longer
       | need to figure out ahead-of-time where to put todos, ideas,
       | questions, and my self-indulgent philosophical musing: everything
       | that bubbles up to conscious mind is added to one of my memos and
       | then will be filed into other note systems, categorized, and/or
       | elaborated at my convenience in the future. There are quite a few
       | things I've memoed that surprised me when looking back at it
       | later in the day, because I had already forgot.
       | 
       | It makes me wonder how many interesting mental tidbits I've lost
       | over the years before I started capturing/organizing them
       | systematically.
        
       | submeta wrote:
       | Roam Research was a game changer for me. - I know it's expensive,
       | the founder behaves arrogantly, but nontheless: They have created
       | a product that is very unique. Many have imitated it's feature-
       | set (athens, org-roam, logseq to name a few), but they were first
       | and paved the way.
       | 
       | What makes this product exceptional is the way it allows to link
       | notes: Deliberately by surrounding words by doulbe brackets or
       | automatically by linking notes that have the same keyword in
       | them.
       | 
       | I started migrating my journal entries (date stamped) and my
       | markdown notes into it, and I start to see connections among the
       | notes that I did not make intentionally.
       | 
       | Slowly I start to come up with more and more categories for note
       | taking that I want to do in Roam: Dream journal, reading notes,
       | articles, research.
       | 
       | Before I was using Bear, Ulysses, Evernote, later I started using
       | Emacs/org, now with a small detour settled with Roam.
        
         | kurko wrote:
         | I recommend taking a look Obsidian.md. I used Roam but now am
         | in Obsidian because I can have my files with me, backup it the
         | way I want, and it's free.
        
         | jabyess wrote:
         | There's also a FOSS version called foam
         | https://foambubble.github.io/foam/
        
           | neurotrace wrote:
           | Seconded. I've been using Foam for some time now and it's
           | been great. Since it's all VS Code, it's also very hackable
        
           | AlanYx wrote:
           | Another two good Foam-like VSCode tools are Markdown Memo
           | (https://github.com/svsool/vscode-memo) and Dendron.
           | 
           | I personally prefer vscode-memo to Foam. It doesn't have a
           | graphical view, but there a couple other things it does
           | really well.
        
       | afarviral wrote:
       | The problem with a lot of existing strategies is they are
       | aspirational - rather than realistic: conforming to our
       | limitations. We can only write so much, and remember for so long.
       | Have an idea, write it down, half way through you might have
       | forgotten the original idea or become distracted by something
       | else. I think it's just starting to come to light with the Roam-
       | style tools, that imposing structure from the beginning doesn't
       | work (too aspirational?), so I'd propose that aside from the
       | happy surprises of the Zettelkasten only bound by relationships
       | to other notes, its much more in tune with the way Minds work to
       | have more unstructured notes. Individual islands that relate to
       | others, but not strict hierarchies, or at least let the
       | hierarchies be interchangeable.
        
       | kzrdude wrote:
       | I'm using Vimwiki for now. I seem to be happiest with notes in
       | vim, but (since I use it in a terminal) I'd still like a way for
       | that particular vim (in terminal) window to stand out. Any ideas?
       | Maybe using an alternative terminal emulator for that one?
        
         | erikcw wrote:
         | You could run it in tmux then set the background and or frame
         | of the window to something that stands out.
        
         | lordgrenville wrote:
         | I used to use a Vim GUI (Macvim) just for notes, terminal for
         | everything else.
        
         | rwnspace wrote:
         | For a while I used vimwiki in a drop-down term: guake and
         | yakuake have this as a primary feature, good for gnome/KDE, but
         | if you're using a tiling WM you can use termdrop on most
         | terminal emulators.
        
           | kzrdude wrote:
           | good point, I should try this
        
         | heywherelogingo wrote:
         | I use terminator, one window, tabs, and vimwiki is always my
         | first tab.
        
       | Tomte wrote:
       | DokuWiki: www.dokuwiki.org
       | 
       | Backlinks out of the box.
        
       | zerop wrote:
       | Tools for better thinking
       | 
       | https://untools.co/
        
       | xyzelement wrote:
       | A little different but - whiteboard. Now that I have space I
       | bought a 5x3 whiteboard and hung it on the wall. The contents on
       | it kind of parallel the GTD system but for me it's helpful to
       | have it "in my face" the whole time. Plus ability to think
       | visually and draw out concepts.
        
       | chapium wrote:
       | How does one stick to any of these systems? I've tried BATF, org-
       | mode, OneNote, and pen/paper. Each of which fail spectacularly
       | due to overload and eventually they just end up being forgotten
       | about long enough to no longer be useful.
        
         | pc86 wrote:
         | What do you mean by "overload?" If that's why these tools
         | always fail for you perhaps looking at that may give you
         | insight on the root cause.
         | 
         | I think the key for most of these, particularly BATF/BASS is
         | the "always open" part. I've recently started playing around
         | with Obsidian mentioned elsewhere and if you don't have it open
         | at startup it's easy to forget about it. And you need to be
         | pretty diligent at the beginning of adding
         | interesting/educational things to your documents while you're
         | still trying to form the habit.
         | 
         | Having a decent organization system is pretty important too
         | (one of the main failings of BATF/BASS in my experience). If I
         | need to scroll through a bunch of development and business
         | stuff to find that interesting physics article that is suddenly
         | relevant again I'm much less likely to do it than if I have a
         | "physics" document or folder I can see and get to easily.
        
         | D13Fd wrote:
         | For me, my notes app is a program I use far more than any
         | other, except for a web browser, so your question doesn't
         | really make sense. It's like asking "how do you stick with Word
         | or Excel"?
         | 
         | I use the common folder-of-text-files method (currently with
         | Ulysses, although I've used other apps in the past). Any time I
         | need to write something down, that's where I go first, unless
         | I'm drafting a document that needs to be sent to someone else.
         | 
         | Here is when it gets used most:
         | 
         | - Researching something online
         | 
         | - Preparing for a call or meeting
         | 
         | - Taking notes on a call or meeting
         | 
         | - Random ideas I want to save
         | 
         | - Important information I want to keep (but not so secret that
         | it needs to go in a password manager)
         | 
         | - Outlines of documents I want to write
         | 
         | - Snippets of code I want to save
        
         | zuno wrote:
         | I agree with chapium, and my thanks to him for penning down his
         | observations into words. I would add that there comes a point
         | when these systems and their maintenance overwhelm my limited
         | abilities (I know because I have tried org-mode, and OneNote).
         | I often keep defaulting to pen/paper, but carrying around
         | sheafs (now boxes) of papers is no fun.
         | 
         | And I agree with pc86's thoughts on 'decent organization
         | system' and "always open". I am working on getting better at it
         | with pen/paper.
        
           | stnmtn wrote:
           | I can empathize with you and the OP. The only one I've got to
           | stick is literally just a text file that I always have open
           | in VIM. I have a keybinding to open up the terminal window so
           | it's always right there.
           | 
           | I have a couple of macros set up to put in the current date,
           | and a different color for bullet points that are "done" or
           | not completed yet
           | 
           | This is the only one that works for me, and I've tried Org-
           | mode, evernote, onenote, joplin, notion, etc. It's a
           | combination of no-friction to open (I literally just press
           | alt+~) and opinionless. If I want to paste something in
           | there, I don't have to fiddle with a UI to get it how I want,
           | because the formatting doesn't matter at all.
        
       | 0xdeadbeefbabe wrote:
       | Don't forget treesheets https://strlen.com/treesheets/
        
       | cecilpl wrote:
       | I can't help myself but to write that Chef Kinopio is a yellow
       | Toad who works at the restaurant in Overlook Tower in Paper
       | Mario: The Origami King. :D
        
       | hiidrew wrote:
       | I want to try obsidian. I like notion but load times drive me
       | nuts.
       | 
       | My primary note taking tool is apple notes, wish it had some
       | additional features but by far my favorite is offline capability.
        
       | gardenfelder wrote:
       | A grandfather to this space is Ward Cunningham. His latest work
       | is FederatedWiki, a javascript platform which enables a lot of
       | thinking; with plugins, you can push it in many directions. As a
       | "federated platform" you can work in groups
       | http://fed.wiki.org/view/federated-wiki
        
       | dpaleka wrote:
       | I too use large files with random notes, but I can't be bothered
       | to write dates -- so I use git and cron to automate a searchable,
       | persistent diary.
       | 
       | Let me write a blog post about it. The author of this article in
       | particular might find it useful. Does anyone do something
       | similar?
        
         | asimjalis wrote:
         | I like this. Would love to see the details of how you do it. I
         | too dislike adding dates to entries. My solution has been a
         | vimscript snippet that inserts the current date. I have bound
         | it to <C-l><C-d>                 fun! InsertDate()         let
         | l:line = getline('.')         let l:date = strftime('%Y-%m-%d')
         | call setline('.',strpart(l:line,0,col('.')).l:date.strpart(l:li
         | ne,col('.')))       endfun            inoremap <C-l><C-d>
         | <ESC>:call InsertDate()<CR>
        
       | tunesmith wrote:
       | I see a ton of recommendations that invite you to blurt out all
       | your thoughts and capture them, but after you do that for a
       | while... what tools/processes help you know what you can delete
       | or let go of?
       | 
       | I have kind of a home-grown anti-todo list system that is hooked
       | up to my life principles, such that if an "oh, I should do this"
       | idea doesn't actually line up with them, I just don't add it to
       | the list. But that's pretty manual and home-grown.
       | 
       | I don't know, it's just that the "capture every thought" genre of
       | software was attractive in my 20s, but after a point it just gets
       | overwhelming.
        
       | major505 wrote:
       | Can't recomend Joplin enouth. really like the note app. you can
       | use markdown, Latex formulas, great for small notes.
       | 
       | I still use onenote for mor multiporpose notes, specially when
       | there are photoso involved, but Joplin is still my main note
       | taking tool.
        
         | CA0DA wrote:
         | When I realized I could not cleanly get a backup of my notes
         | from OneNote, I switched to Joplin and have been quite happy
         | since.
        
       | asimjalis wrote:
       | I love these threads for the tools people mention. These threads
       | are one of the best things about HN.
        
         | pwdisswordfish8 wrote:
         | Surprising how few people mention an email addressed to
         | oneself, particularly for those concerned about getting their
         | thoughts out quickly. (Maybe a side effect of how many people
         | use Gmail and it being slow and clunky?) Not saying it's
         | brilliant by any means, but conceptually, it makes a certain
         | amount of sense. Imagine having an assistant you can trust
         | completely, and you don't have to worry about hurting their
         | feelings or ever needing to stop to think whether you need to
         | phrase things in a certain way. You'd lean on them for stuff
         | like this, right? Now, instead of an assistant, it's just you
         | explaining things to you.
         | 
         | If you've always got your mail client open then speed bumps are
         | minimal, and you get optional titles, automatically dated
         | entries, and search for "free".
        
         | pmkiwi wrote:
         | Yeap agreed! I discovered a lot of tools just reading them.
         | Thanks everyone !!
        
       | chillpenguin wrote:
       | I highly recommend TiddlyWiki. The name puts a lot of people off,
       | but it is really great. Supports backlinks and transclusion,
       | among the more typical tagging and linking.
       | 
       | Great for creating personal wikis.
        
       | jandrusk wrote:
       | org-roam should have made the list.
        
       | space_ghost wrote:
       | I used the "BATF" method for years, with one file per year. In
       | 2014 I switched to Zim [1] and haven't looked back.
       | 
       | [1] https://zim-wiki.org/
        
         | geocrasher wrote:
         | I too have been using Zim Wiki since 2013. I've considered
         | switching to Joplin however.
        
         | Tomte wrote:
         | What's BATF? It's pretty ungooglable.
         | 
         | Edit: it's obviously the big-ass text file, not a "real"
         | method.
        
       | StuntPope wrote:
       | Joplin is a nice find. I used to use WikiPad religiously until it
       | seemed to go defunct.
       | 
       | I like the idea of Kinopio a lot because I use mindmaps heavily
       | but find the hierarchical structure to be a limitation, this
       | seems more lateral. Only problem is it's hosted, would love
       | something like this in an app, like the aforementioned Joplin.
        
       | bulka wrote:
       | https://cmap.ihmc.us/
        
       | kevinslin wrote:
       | If you fall into the *Big-Ass Text File* approach, I would
       | recommend Dendron.so It's an open source plaintext based note
       | taking tool that runs inside VSCode with the option to add
       | additional structure to your text using schemas (think type
       | system but for your notes)
       | 
       | (disclaimer: I'm the founder)
        
       | novakinblood wrote:
       | "exo-brain (tech-)tools" is a form of cognitive offloading [0],
       | right?
       | 
       | [0] Risko EF, Gilbert SJ. Cognitive Offloading. Trends Cogn Sci.
       | 2016 Sep;20(9):676-688. doi: 10.1016/j.tics.2016.07.002. Epub
       | 2016 Aug 16. PMID: 27542527.
        
       | afarviral wrote:
       | I've had a persistent desire for a knowledge management
       | protocol/service that goes beyond the scope of all the software
       | and strategies discussed on HN regularly. I firmly believe that
       | the needs and barriers are pretty universal between people (not
       | personal preference or individual at all) and that in a way, we
       | are rate-limited without it, bound to arrive at solutions only
       | for them to be lost again. I have a dense page in my Zettelkasten
       | dedicated to the idea, but in summarizing it's meant to provide
       | an interoperable framework that accepts different forms of media
       | (not just text, though it would be central) and facilitates
       | various kinds of analysis and thought, e.g. detecting
       | similarities, duplication, extrapolating etc. I'd imagine a
       | specialized form of distributed version control would be needed,
       | and various platforms and tools to solve the capture and
       | retrieval dilemma, and in particular the problem of persistence
       | and link rot. To be sure all I have is a list of problems and
       | some possible clues for solving, but the most hopeful of those is
       | a distributed service that is widely used but very open. It could
       | consist of some commercialized tools or engines, but the
       | underlying protocol must be open for anyone to use.
       | 
       | If the idea I have took off it would take the information age to
       | new heights, with the next phase being ubiquitous use of brain-
       | computer interfaces.
       | 
       | Imagine how productive we would all be if we never forgot. All
       | ideas, perhaps even a collection representing all of humankind,
       | transcribed to a format that respects our time, and aids further
       | thought.
       | 
       | We can reach in and take the ideas that work from other systems,
       | such as Zettelkasten, Nogutchi Filing System, The Web and any of
       | it's parts (markup, protocols), the study of sciences, humanities
       | etc.
        
       | geenat wrote:
       | Obsidian: https://obsidian.md/                 - All content
       | stored as flat files on your hard drive.       - Organised by
       | correctly named folders.       - Can embed images. Will link or
       | autocopy them to the appropriate folders.       - Is great if you
       | like markdown.       - Dark theme.
       | 
       | Honorable mentions:                 - Infinite tab indentation
       | synced in google docs, in google drive, since I already pay for
       | google anyway.       - todo.txt
        
         | Cshelton wrote:
         | Started using Obsidian last week. It's so easy and works how
         | ever you want it to. Roam Research is nice, but it's geared
         | toward a specific way of writing.
         | 
         | Also, the Syncing across devices they provide for $4/m right
         | now is a steal and very effortless.
         | 
         | Of course you can take backups using Git, very easy.
        
           | bsedlm wrote:
           | > Roam Research is nice, but it's geared toward a specific
           | way of writing.
           | 
           | could you (or anybody) elaborate?
           | 
           | what is different between Obsidian's inteded way of writing
           | and Roam Research's??
        
             | selykg wrote:
             | Roam is basically an outliner
             | 
             | Obsidian is able to do outlining with some plugins, but is
             | primarily designed for writing notes.
             | 
             | I really far prefer Obsidian. If you want to get a good
             | primer on things, lookup Linking Your Thinking on YouTube.
        
         | delgaudm wrote:
         | I'm with you here. I've recently discovered Obsidian, and have
         | been really enjoying using it. It's probably been the tool that
         | most matched my mental model (for me that was "personal wiki")
         | of note taking and thought processing before I started that has
         | also been easy enough to stick with.
         | 
         | I feel like it should be easy to make Obsidian the content
         | editor for a static site generator like Hugo, but I haven't
         | found a tool for that yet. (Maybe it's so obvious that one
         | isn't needed, but I'm not a dev, just a normie)
        
           | Fission wrote:
           | I did this recently to start creating a public (but unlisted)
           | developer log, a la Carmack .plan. Obsidian has a community
           | GitHub backup plugin, but you can also just manually push to
           | a repo whenever you want to update the site. Then you can use
           | that repo as a proto-CMS, and pull it in with, say, NextJS to
           | create a static site. Anything with built in CI (Vercel,
           | Netlify, GH Actions) should be able to detect the change to
           | the CMS repo and rebuild your static site. Both steps are
           | quite easy (took me under 10 minutes total).
           | 
           | That said, if you don't need special control over your
           | content/presentation, then you could alternatively just pay
           | Obsidian $8 a month for their Publish feature.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | blocked_again wrote:
         | Also not to mention that Obsidian, which is made by 2
         | bootstrappers is giving a 200 million dollar valued VC funded
         | company a run for it's money.
        
           | bobbylarrybobby wrote:
           | Assuming you're talking about notion: collaboration+sharing
           | is what brings the real value to these tools. Enterprise is
           | where the money is and they're not going to pay for a
           | wiki+project management tool without those two features.
        
             | senjin wrote:
             | I think they're talking about roam research
        
         | bachmeier wrote:
         | Lots of good tools out there, but Obsidian is the one I've
         | settled on, for better or worse. I use the $48/year sync
         | service. It does a perfect job syncing my files on my Linux
         | desktop and laptop, my Chromebook, and my phone. Turns out
         | Linux ARM (for my Chromebook) isn't as well supported by
         | various apps as I expected, but their build is available and
         | works perfectly.
        
         | juliend2 wrote:
         | > - Infinite tab indentation synced in google docs, in google
         | drive [...]
         | 
         | That sounds interesting. Can you elaborate?
        
           | geenat wrote:
           | You can organise text in a hierarchy indefinitely with tabs.
           | 
           | I make a template Google Doc with the margins stripped out
           | that I can copy anytime I need one.
           | 
           | I usually will throw on Dark Reader as well and use a
           | monospace font.
           | 
           | Added benefits:                 - Phone editing       -
           | Easily link to other google docs.       - Share them with
           | anyone.
           | 
           | It's a cloud version of todo.txt.
        
         | DenverCode wrote:
         | Just started using Obsidian this week for classes and I
         | couldn't be happier.
        
         | jcelerier wrote:
         | I've been using Zim (https://zim-wiki.org) for that for close
         | to a decade now, what has Obsidian in addition ?
        
           | bachmeier wrote:
           | Zim is great too. In terms of functionality, it does a lot of
           | the things Obsidian does, but it uses its own wiki syntax and
           | it's not pretty by any means. Obsidian has been much more
           | effective at building community and growing the ecosystem of
           | plugins.
           | 
           | Edit: And one pretty annoying thing - it's built on old-
           | school technology that doesn't even support setting the
           | editor width. That's quite a problem in the era of widescreen
           | monitors.
        
         | BasilPH wrote:
         | I used to work with the Zettelkasten Archive and vim, but I
         | think I'll switch to Obsidian. The graph and link
         | autocompletion are the main selling points for me compared to
         | my current setup.
         | 
         | I maintain a small open-source script[^1] to find clusters and
         | orphaned notes in a Zettelkasten, and I find it's a good
         | addition to groom my notes from the terminal.
         | 
         | [^1]: https://github.com/BasilPH/vizel
        
         | CA0DA wrote:
         | Does it have encryption? How does it compare to Joplin?
        
           | bachmeier wrote:
           | It's a pile of files on your hard drive, so encryption is up
           | to you. If you buy their sync service, you get encryption:
           | https://obsidian.md/sync
        
           | Isthatablackgsd wrote:
           | Obsidian don't have encryption built-in, they do have the
           | encryption via community plugin. But it is only partial (I
           | believe per note), not the entire vault.
        
           | Off wrote:
           | If you are looking for something similar focused on privacy
           | but that leans more towards RoamResearch UX, you can give
           | logseq[1] a try.
           | 
           | [1] https://logseq.com/
        
             | Off wrote:
             | I forgot to add that logseq is open source, the file
             | encryption feature is built-in (you can opt-in or opt-out)
             | and all the documents are saved locally in md files.
        
               | francoisp wrote:
               | nice! any iOS clients in the works?
        
         | markdjacobsen wrote:
         | I'll echo others here; Obsidian is an amazing tool. For those
         | who are curious about Obsidian, I recently created a YouTube
         | video series for my graduate students titled "Tools for the
         | Life of the Mind." [0] It covers some philosophical points
         | about flow and focus, then dives into reading and note-taking
         | and then covers a few tools like Evernote, Scrivener, Zotero,
         | and Obsidian. Video 13 covers a workflow for migrating Zotero
         | highlights and notes into Obsidian, which I found buried in the
         | Obsidian forums. Completing this missing link has been a game-
         | changer for my research workflow.
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHmevVAAXtu3_beDLtsTm...
        
         | pc86 wrote:
         | I just started using Obsidian and I really like it. I've found
         | it even more useful if you add this mind map plugin:
         | https://github.com/lynchjames/obsidian-mind-map
        
       | omarhaneef wrote:
       | Here are some note-taking "contexts":
       | 
       | - in front of my computer when I am thinking
       | 
       | - in a meeting
       | 
       | - driving
       | 
       | - walking (grocery store, or to a place etc)
       | 
       | Note that each puts on a constraint, but I want the notes to
       | sync.
       | 
       | When I am driving perhaps I need to speak into something that
       | takes the notes without having to be turned on, hit the I am not
       | driving button, find the app and launch it.
       | 
       | When I am walking, I need to take a note on my mobile and it
       | cannot be a large graphical mind map.
       | 
       | In front of my computer -- this is where 99% of note taking apps
       | shine and what they are made for.
       | 
       | In a meeting, especially in person or zoom, it is almost rude to
       | type. It is perfectly acceptable, and almost polite, to write out
       | notes by hand in a pad (it shows I care and am paying attention).
       | I need to transcribe those notes later on.
       | 
       | The idea note taking system performs and syncs across these
       | contexts well.
        
         | talor_a wrote:
         | the only app that does this well for me is Todoist, but that's
         | for tracking todos. Works via desktop app (+ global hotkey to
         | add a todo at any time), browser (+ extension for saving
         | webpages), mobile app, and siri (when I'm in the car). Without
         | all those things no app has stuck for me. Todoist works
         | decently well for short memo-type notes (you can add comments
         | and attach files to todos), but I'm also looking for another
         | companion app to use for more longform / wide reaching
         | information.
        
         | dzink wrote:
         | Working on precisely that at DreamList.com.
        
       | Raineer wrote:
       | So happy to see Joplin on here. I adore it, as it doesn't try to
       | be as big and full-featured as the flavor-of-the-month (currently
       | Obsidian but surely something else come September).
       | 
       | Syncing which supports more than just a paid service or forces
       | you into a brand name (my own WebDAV works for me). Encryption.
       | Flexibility. Just love it.
        
       | yboris wrote:
       | I liked using Cinta Notes - https://cintanotes.com/
       | 
       | Super quick way to jot down notes, search through them, tag them
       | if needed. May be useful :)
        
       | widea wrote:
       | Tiddlyroam: https://tiddlyroam.org/
        
         | Naac wrote:
         | This looks like some extensions built on top of tiddlywiki
        
       | slaymaker1907 wrote:
       | I use TiddlyWiki for structured notes personally, though I
       | haven't yet found a way to do quick outlining with it in a
       | satisfactory way.
       | 
       | Honestly though I just need to modify the tiddler editor a bit to
       | support tab in/out for lists.
        
       | kreetx wrote:
       | And for many "big-a* text files" I'd recommend org-mode. It also
       | has its own markup (much more powerful than markdown), and can
       | also do spreadsheets (which I personally use only marginally).
       | 
       | Manage this in git and you are independent of any service, yet
       | with extensive-- perhaps even uncontested --feature-coverage.
        
       | camoroso24 wrote:
       | I am partial to simple text files that I edit in vim.
       | 
       | I have a simple script that parses my notes (based on tags), puts
       | them in respective files, and creates a new md file for the day.
       | 
       | I think it's important to have a space where the threshold for
       | what needs to be written down is low and unstructured. Since vim
       | is great at editing text (compared to writing), I use it as a
       | space to dump my thoughts out and organize them in front of my
       | eyes. Works great for me.
        
       | MikeLumos wrote:
       | Another good one: https://nulis.io/ (or https://gingkoapp.com/).
       | It's like a mindmap turned sideways, in a more convenient format.
       | 
       | And of course: https://dynalist.io
       | 
       | Both are infinitely nested tree editors, that enable you to
       | organize information very conveniently. Great for writing,
       | brainstorming, taking notes.
       | 
       | On iOS I use Editorial (a great text editor) to write down all my
       | notes, and I use #tags to make it easy to search all my notes by
       | topic (like #webdev, #health, #books, and so on).
       | 
       | Also Track and Share is a great habit tracker, and Things 3 is a
       | great todo list manager. The more thoughts I can offload from my
       | brain into the app - the better.
       | 
       | On my laptop I use Emacs org-mode, it's fantastic.
        
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