[HN Gopher] Joe Rogan, confined to Spotify, is losing influence ___________________________________________________________________ Joe Rogan, confined to Spotify, is losing influence Author : Tomte Score : 306 points Date : 2021-08-25 15:39 UTC (7 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com) | duxup wrote: | I wonder if Rogan would 'not lose influence' had he changed | nothing. | | Feels like these kind of personalities, while they can have long | careers, growth / reach isn't infinite or sustainable. | motohagiography wrote: | I was looking for who these listeners were switching to, or | what the change was relative to overall podcast listenership, | and was totally surprised the authors didn't include a base | rate in their analysis. Not including base rates in references | to anything quantitative is like writing spam emails with | spelling mistakes because being dumb enough not to notice is a | good proxy for being dumb enough to buy what you are selling. | Though I doubt whether the people at the Verge have the | sophistication to be intentionally fraudulent. They just need | enough noise or to craft a conflict around. However it's a good | example of data-horoscope journalism, where you backfit your | narrative to points on a line. | | Rogan is probably the most successful podcaster in the world by | a variety of possible metrics, and I'm not sure what a | reasonable expectation of how that plays out would be. Does he | transform into a being of pure light and ascend into space, or, | does he just do a job he likes until he doesn't anymore, and | moves on to something else? | | The Verge should just say what they mean, which is that Rogan | talks to off-brand people and you shouldn't be tempted by how | good the conversations are because it will not align you with | crumbling mainstream narratives, and instead you should spend | your time engaged with their clickbait talking points factory | deciphering their adolescent purple sophistry. | heyparkerj wrote: | I listened to Joe a lot when I was doing manual labor in | 2013-2014ish. Like almost every single episode. I was always | able to intake the things I thought were interesting and laugh | off stuff I thought was dumb or unconvincing, but I do remember | thinking that one day the greater internet will realize that | his podcast is littered with content that people could easily | misconstrue and start a real uproar about with sufficient | motivation. Based on this, I think people shining a light on | some of the dumber things that a self proclaimed dumb guy says | while recording himself talking for 10 hours a week, and | becoming a bit of an internet meme in the process was | inevitable - and that's before he started saying whatever the | hell he's been saying about vaccines and masks. | duxup wrote: | I've thought about the balance between "I don't know and I'm | going to think out loud here." and doing that as | entertainment and ... where that leads to some responsibility | for saying some stuff that you really don't know that is dead | wrong and ... | | I duno. It's a weird world. | toofy wrote: | yeah, i think he kind of peaked shortly before the period where | he was so obsessive with his attempts to outrage people over | pronouns. i seemed to stop hearing about him around that time | other than the headlines surrounding the spotify deal of | course. | cratermoon wrote: | Good. | chrisco255 wrote: | Spotify is just not set up for long-form video content. The | discovery aspect of YouTube is one reason why it reels you in. | You're scrolling through your feed, you see an interesting clip, | and you click on it. Another big part of YouTube is the comment | section. Spotify lacks on both fronts. I also think the JRE clips | were a big part of what sucked people into watch full epsiodes. | If a 5-7 minute JRE clip were interesting I might jump in and | watch the whole episode. I don't think they've done that or done | it as well on Spotify. | dragonelite wrote: | Those short clips did indeed pulled in me in to just put a JRE | episode on the background while working xD | gordon_freeman wrote: | This. The flexibility to search for a video coupled with YT's | spontaneous recommendations is something unique to YouTube. So | many times I have seen a clip about PBS Newshour episode on YT | and then end up watching whole Newshour episode or most of it. | Having all videos on varied lengths in same platform makes it | easy to consume based on the time available. | DantesKite wrote: | He still posts Joe Rogan clips and I genuinely still enjoy | listening to those. | daughart wrote: | Just like Howard Stern (note, SiriusXM also owns Spotify). They | traded a broader audience and greater influence for stability and | gigantic paychecks. E.g., in Howard's case, even though his | personal influence shrunk, his importance to Sirius/Spotify grew | as a fraction of the subscriber base is dedicated to one talent | and would otherwise unsubscribe. Howard's deal has been renewed a | number of times now. I can't blame anyone involved. | adamrezich wrote: | this makes more sense for Stern because his audience is much | narrower than Rogan's. Stern moving from terrestrial radio gave | him more "freedom," whereas the same can't be said for Rogan. | also, Stern took the deal when he had been established voice in | radio for decades, whereas Rogan was (to my understanding) just | reaching his height of popularity before the exclusivity deal | began. | pessimizer wrote: | > this makes more sense for Stern because his audience is | much narrower than Rogan's. | | In what way was Stern's audience narrower at all than | Rogan's? Stern _narrowed_ his audience when he moved to | Sirius, but so did Rogan, apparently. When Stern was in | syndication and on E!, he had as general an audience as any | radio personality (back when people listened to the radio.) | Rogan has a very narrow demographic as far as I can see, and | virtually that entire demo is a subset of who listened to or | watched Stern during what was something like a 15 year long | peak. | adamrezich wrote: | > Rogan has a very narrow demographic as far as I can see, | and virtually that entire demo is a subset of who listened | to or watched Stern during what was something like a 15 | year long peak. | | really? I was under the impression that Rogan skewed much | younger. (at _least_ compared to the Stern audience when he | made his platform jump.) and sure Stern narrowed his | audience when he moved to satellite, but wasn 't he already | a bit past his prime at that point? | eplanit wrote: | Stern tried to adapt, and with a degree of success. He came | from the "Shock Jock", Andrew Dice Clay era, but shifted in | recent years to become much softer and "woke". | cylinder714 wrote: | emacsen/Serge Wroclawski's piece, "Stern Fan In Recovery," | touches on this and the abuse his employees deal with: | https://blog.emacsen.net/blog/2021/07/03/stern-fan-in- | recove... | jswrenn wrote: | Correction: SiriusXM owns Pandora, not Spotify. | | https://investor.siriusxm.com/investor-overview/press-releas... | rajbot wrote: | > SiriusXM also owns Spotify | | Sirius XM (nasdaq:SIRI) and Spotify (nyse:SPOT) are two | different companies. | | Sirius XM bought pandora in 2019. | LatteLazy wrote: | Its a vicious cycle: he got a bit crazy and anti-vax, hes in | Austin so its 10 times harder to get good guests, and that makes | it all the easier to lean into being antivax etc. | andrewon wrote: | The drop after switch makes sense. There's gotta to be | significant number of people won't switch to Spotify just because | of Joe Rogan's show. Half of them is about right. | | His show is just one of many in my queue. I won't go through the | troubleshoot of using two apps for podcast just because of him. | [deleted] | diragon wrote: | Spotify snatching exclusive podcasts made me quit Spotify for | music as well. That's a grab that I do not tolerate. | | This further cements the fact that IPO is a near certain death | sentence for a product. | LegitShady wrote: | its too bad the app for youtube music is so horrible. How does | it still not have a horizontal mode? How many goldfish are they | paying to develop that app? | mark_l_watson wrote: | I don't blaming him for taking the money from Spotify. He has | ensured his descendants' wealth for probably a few generations. | Good for him. | | I still see clips of him on YouTube. How does that work given his | deal with Spotify, anyone know? | wrink wrote: | They are are allowed to upload snippets but are limited in | length and number of clips they are permitted to upload per | episode. I assume they provide the allowance for purely | promotional reasons. Personally, I find the clips too short to | be particularly interesting | theodric wrote: | I know we're supposed to only contribute commentary that | productively advances the conversation, but the thought that | keeps bubbling back to the top for me is "lol noob, you sold out; | you got what you asked for" | | -\\_(tsu)_/- | MauroIksem wrote: | Not surprised..i stopped listening when he moved. It was | entertaining but not enough for me to move podcast platforms. | eplanit wrote: | Rumble is gaining popularity; maybe he should move there. | kiawe_fire wrote: | I noticed a similar trend with Howard Stern and others once | signing on with SiriusXM. | | My unsubstantiated take: audio has to be ubiquitous to work. It's | somehow more commoditized than video or other mediums. | | If it's a radio show / podcast, you already have your "player" of | choice (AM/FM radio, or a particular mobile app) and you expect | the audio to work like tuning a radio station to your syndicated | show, or putting in a CD, and the player just plays it. | | For some reason with video streaming, we equate services like | Netflix with TV networks, so exclusivity is ok. | | But audio apps and services don't feel like different stations or | CDs, they feel like different mediums entirely. So while Netflix | is to Hulu as NBC is to HGTV, Spotify is to Apple Music as CDs | are to MiniDisc. | jazzyjackson wrote: | This is less a problem for Joe than it is for his advertisers. I | wonder about the effectiveness of pre-roll ads vs extremely | annoying mid-sentence ad breaks scattered through the episode. | Use to be joe was one of the more enjoyable blocks of 3 hour | content to listen to because there were no commercial breaks. | m0zg wrote: | Maybe it's for the best. He's a comedian who doesn't know | anything about anything (and freely admits this to be the case), | he shouldn't really have that much "influence". $100M in the bank | sure is nice, I bet. | sammalloy wrote: | I agree with everything that's already been said in this thread, | but I've noticed one thing that hasn't been discussed at all. | | I live in a rural area where network connectivity is poor at | worst and intermittent at best. I spent years watching Rogan on | YouTube with nothing but network problems. Watching Rogan was a | chore in the previous scenario, and YouTube did not make it easy. | | Once Rogan moved to Spotify, I never had a single problem with | network connectivity. I could use the app to seamlessly switch | between audio and video, and it was easy to both find and browse | previous podcasts and quickly queue them up to play or watch. I | could never do this before in a poor connectivity environment, | but Spotify made all of this possible. | rchaud wrote: | Youtube automatically switches to the lowest bitrate if it | detects a slow network. Was it still too slow at 360p? | | I used NewPipe to download the YT vids ahead of time. It has | the option to download only the audio streams, so a lot of | bandwidth can be saved that way as well. | sammalloy wrote: | I should note, I was not using the YouTube app, I was using | the Safari browser on my iPhone all these years. To me, it | seemed like a buffering problem, even at 360p. For whatever | reason, Spotify loads immediately (or at worst, within five | seconds) and gives me the best experience. Thanks for the tip | about NewPipe. | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: | His move to Spotify isn't why he sucked, but Joe really has gone | off the ego end. If you listen to his early ustream podcasts, he | was just funny stoner. Now he's just lost touch. | paulpauper wrote: | This is the weakest analysis I have ever seen for an article. | It's just noise. The sample size is too small to make any | inference. A combination of people quarantined due to covid , the | election, and BLM hype is why 2020 was such a big year. Joe Rogan | is still hugely influential. His comments in 2021 about vaccines | made headlines everywhere. | glonq wrote: | I stopped listening to him around the time that he signed to | spotify. But I think that was coincidental. I just got sick of | how he's such a nutter and a dummy -- even though I like many | things about who he is and what he does. | ram_rar wrote: | Spotify video leaves a lot to be desired as compared to youtube. | They should stick to audio and improve on it. I dont understand, | why do I need to go through ads for JR show even though I pay for | spotify premium. | | The best part of youtube is that one could search through and get | excerpts of the video. I could easily find JRs tidbits without | the need of going through the entire interview. I still see some | of the older excerpts in youtube, but less so in spotify. | DantesKite wrote: | He can always move back to YouTube after his Spotify deal is | over, no problem. | | Joe Rogan never started the podcast for influence. It was just | him shooting the breeze with friends. | | It just turned out that he was also one of the best interviewers | on the planet. | | Good on Joe. Make that money. YouTube will always be waiting. | towb wrote: | Other than the show changing since the move Spotify just isn't a | good media player, and it's a shitty podcast app. | EGreg wrote: | Why is he confined to spotify? | | Some centralized group i restricting his rights like the music | industry used to bury albums and bands in the 80s? | | Meanwhile: https://www.rap-up.com/2021/08/10/tory-lanez- | sells-1-million... | [deleted] | altacc wrote: | Hearing "Exclusively on Spotify" on any podcast ad is a sure-fire | way to make sure I never listen to an episode. One of the great | features of podcasts is the flexibility in listening platform and | I'd really rather not switch to Spotify's substandard user | experience. | radicalbyte wrote: | I subscribe to Spotify but I dropped Rogan when he left. I have | all my other podcasts in one app, listening history and all. | | Now I have to drop that because Spotify want to play monopoly? | S** that. | tantalor wrote: | Scratching my head what "S**" means | Fordec wrote: | I assume "Sod", used in more British influenced cultures. | Short for sodomy/sodomize. Usually a stand in for "F**" but | a bit more cavalier/dismissive than angry. | adolph wrote: | That does sound spicier than placing tiles of vegetation. | Ardon wrote: | Sod? Maybe? People say "Sod that" in Britain. I don't know | why you'd censor that though. | rchaud wrote: | They're buying up a lot of high-profile independent ones. Dax | Shepard's Armchair Expert joined recently, and now the RSS feed | is pretty bare. | xnx wrote: | So true. I wonder if RSS could make a comeback if it were | marketed as "podcast for articles". | soheil wrote: | No because no popular publisher would stay the moment a $100m | exclusive offer is made. | AlbertCory wrote: | I can't tell Mr. Rogan what to do, but I'll just quote from the | wise old man, Neil Young: | | Ain't singin' for Pepsi, Ain't singin' for Coke, Ain't singin' | for no one, Makes me look like a joke. | [deleted] | ssijak wrote: | Lately it is getting harder to get an episode I want to listen | to. 70-80% are comedian friend episodes which I have 0% | inclination to listen to (I wonder how many people listen to them | compared to other episodes) and then there are 10-20% guests | either from MMA or boring 20x already told story about | gender/vaccines/masks/invermectin/etc. And then there are 10% of | interesting guests. Previously on youtube it was much better. I | even enjoy listening to some quacks, like Graham Hanckok because | he has interesting stories, but he does not even has that lately. | clipradiowallet wrote: | To me, Joe Rogan is permanently and fondly associated with the | episodes of Chappelle Show with Tyrone Biggums. | lanevorockz wrote: | Joe Rogan knew his days on Big Tech Pravda were counted ... he | took his audience and went to Spotify where he took the profit | upfront. Much smarter than most people that only follow the | leader and don't have one shred of critical thought. | ed25519FUUU wrote: | This sounds right to me. Big tech is very eager to deplatform | anyone who holds contrarian views against the status quo, and | this is especially true with regards to vaccine and politics. | | In some ways being on Spotify with a multimillion dollar | contract actually offers some decent protection. Hopefully he's | got a good contract. | [deleted] | devwastaken wrote: | That's fine. An uneducated guy bringing on other uneducated guys | that talk about something as if they're experts. Joe is an | "average dude" who loves his disinformation and nodding his head | to whatever BS someone says. People like words, personalities, | hand waving. That's not where truth comes from. Truth is a hard | fought battle that doesn't come to you in a podcast. It comes in | written words, proofs, and is filled with uncertainty. Actual | experts dont give black and white answers, they provide the | information and context. People don't like that because it's | complicated. | hospes wrote: | >> An uneducated guy bringing on other uneducated guys that | talk about something as if they're experts. | | He often has leading scientists and subject matter experts on | his podcasts. | | >> Joe is an "average dude"... | | Average dude who: - Created one of the largest | English language podcasts. | | - Is a successful comedian who writes his own material. | | - Is a leading martial arts commentator and holds black belt | himself. | | - Made $30M last year plus made $100M from the Spotify deal. | | I am not sure what is your metric that makes him average. | FullKirby wrote: | I heard experts give nuanced opinions on his podcast | devwastaken wrote: | I hear "experts" on the news too, yet they're also the source | of conspiracy nuts. Why is that? Because they have no | honesty, and also run many fakers. | sk2020 wrote: | > That's fine. An uneducated guy bringing on other uneducated | guys that talk about something as if they're experts. | | I'm not sure that's distinct from the internet commentariat | here or elsewhere. | Zelphyr wrote: | Money aside, I personally feel the Spotify deal was terrible for | Rogan. He does more for Spotify than they do for him. Not least | of which because Spotify, while pretty great for music, is | _terrible_ as a podcast player. | | And, yeah, he has gone off the deep end since the Spotify deal. | Somebody dumping a giant basket of cash on your doorstep probably | does the ego no favors. | ssijak wrote: | Spotify is terrible for podcasts, but 100mil $ is enough (on | top of $$$ he already has) to not care about nuances of does he | gives them more than they gave him. | busymom0 wrote: | I think 100 million isn't much considering the amount of | influence he has. I guess getting an upfront 100 million is | better than over the years though. Does anyone know how long | his contract is with Spotify? It's it's longer than 2-3 years | then he's losing money imo. | LinuxBender wrote: | At first I thought he would be ok. His original gripe with | Youtube was the censorship of controversial guests. Either he or | Spotify prevented most of the controversial videos from being | imported into Spotify so I guess the problem remains. Is there a | platform that allows any/all controversial guests? | lotsofpulp wrote: | The internet. | jazzyjackson wrote: | Advertisers don't want to advertise next to controversial | guests, so if there's another platform they don't have 100 | megabucks to buy content with (I mean, podcasting is the most | open platform of all before "exclusive podcasts" became a | thing) | opan wrote: | He could use something like peertube or funkwhale. | asdff wrote: | or joerogan.com | LatteLazy wrote: | Anyone know any good alternatives? | | I listen to the Rachman Review on geo-politics and China Talk. | But i dont think anyone else has as wide a range as Joe. Tim | Ferris is ok but he's way more niche. | | https://www.ft.com/rachman-review | | https://chinatalkshow.libsyn.com/rss | knorker wrote: | No wonder. Spotify is the most broken piece of shit on the app | stores by far. | | Hey, let me download these so i can listen on the plane. Oh, the | app just hangs on startup when you're in airplane mode. Well | that's pointless. | | And on and on. | | It's a wonder anyone even _can_ listen if they wanted to. | | Sorry, this comment is probably not HN material, but every time I | use Spotify it makes me angry from how it just doesn't work. | Mountain_Skies wrote: | Spotify has invested heavily in podcasts, not just Joe Rogan | but a whole range of them at high costs. It baffles me that | they would spend so much money on content and not invest in app | development and design. Some businesses seem to have a major | hate boner against paying for an appropriate number of high | quality developers and designers. It's very penny proud and | pound foolish. | spideymans wrote: | I'm disappointed that Spotify in particular is going through | this. They had a best-in-class user experience just a few | short years ago. | cpach wrote: | I actually like Spotify. For _music_ , though. Listening to | podcasts in a music app - makes no sense to me. I have Overcast | for that purpose and I see no reason to switch. I can | understand that it was a good deal for Rogan personally if he | got 100 million USD for exclusivity but for the average podcast | host I believe that an open platform is much better. | hammyhavoc wrote: | As an artist I do not like getting $50 per 1m plays. | shkkmo wrote: | Spotify works absolutely fine for me in Airplane mode. The | reason I pay for Spotify is because it is the nest solution I | have found for easily curating music for offline playback since | I don't have unlimited data and I'm often outside of good | coverage areas. | | It certainly isn't perfect and there are aspects of the UI I | find frustrating, but offline access and playback are the | features that seem to work the best. | | Edit: I also don't use Spotify for any podcasts and use other | software since there are lots of great options for offline | podcast listening that are way better than Spotify. | vannevar wrote: | It's questionable whether online 'influencers' actually influence | anyone beyond getting them to watch or listen to their show. What | they definitely have is an audience, and that is valuable to the | advertisers and marketers who _do_ influence people, as well as | prospective guests who want to promote themselves or a cause. I | think influencers ' main value for advertisers is acting as a | magnet for certain demographics, providing another way to do | targeted marketing. | psyc wrote: | Well, there's this: | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28302725 | Spivak wrote: | Which is an absolutely fascinating case-study! It's easy to | just write it off as "kids mimicking content creator for | attention" but it goes so much deeper than this because it's | a learned subconscious reaction to stress. It's like tapping | your feet or biting your nails but interesting because it's | verbal. It's kinda like if you say "like" or "um" to fill | space when talking you never really have to think about it | but you can stop if you practice. | vannevar wrote: | Maybe Joe's viewers will all start doing stand-up. :-) | | There was a marketing study of influencers from Rakuten | Marketing that indicates that advertising through influencer | channels produces positive sales results. But again, it's not | clear that the influencer actually drove the purchases, | versus just drawing an audience that was predisposed to make | those purchases in the first place. | | https://www.iab.com/wp- | content/uploads/2019/03/Rakuten-2019-... | elliekelly wrote: | If influencers didn't "influence" then advertisers wouldn't pay | them. That's all "influence" is. Just a dressed up name for | marketing. | vannevar wrote: | Not true. The owner of a TV station gets paid, and they | aren't influencing anyone. They're simply brokering | advertising. I'm open to evidence that influencers actually | exert personal influence on their audience, I just haven't | seen any yet. | diebeforei485 wrote: | It's unfortunate. Some of his guests are quite interesting. I | appreciated him having Abby Martin on the show. | | I have no idea why covid is such a popular topic on podcasts. Do | people actually like hearing more about it, don't they already | hear about it every day? | jdprgm wrote: | It's been frustrating watching the Spotify (and general movement) | with podcasts fragmenting and going exclusive. Spotify won with | music because it improved upon the existing state of listening to | music and offered a free or cheap solution that was even a | compelling alternative to piracy. | | Podcasts for the most part were in the ideal state for consumers, | almost always free and mostly client independent distributed w/ | RSS. I don't think there is much of any argument that Spotify can | improve that state for consumers by taking a podcast exclusive. | These deals are just payouts for the hosts not investments that | make the shows better. Most even very successful podcasts likely | have low opex (some exceptions like NYT Daily) and don't benefit | from a big pile of cash. | | On a different note regarding the Rogan Deal, Spotify took ages | to add video streaming support on Apple TV (main way I would | catch Rogan) which basically caused me to quit casual watching. | They also only recently added offline playback for Apple Watch | and even then it's premium exclusive and requires manual | downloading of eps. I don't understand at all why an enormous | company like Spotify is so neglectful of the entire apple | ecosystem. | gsich wrote: | Podcasts without RSS are not podcasts. Sure you can have | several distribution methods, but if not one of them is RSS ... | mastrsushi wrote: | > Podcasts without RSS are not podcasts | | The rest of the world seems to think otherwise.... | seanf wrote: | _I don 't understand at all why an enormous company like | Spotify is so neglectful of the entire apple ecosystem._ | | Part of this might be the legal friction between Spotify and | Apple in the past. Here's an article that describes a coalition | that Epic Games, Spotify, and others formed just last year to | counter Apple's platform cut. | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/09/epic-spotify-and-oth... | judge2020 wrote: | The situation isn't much better on desktop; I don't think | they're specifically neglecting Apple. | teekert wrote: | They are unionizing... | dalbasal wrote: | It's all competition for monopoly. No one "owned" podcasting, | like itunes own streaming music and youtube own free-to-air TV. | Spotify is trying to be the one that owns it. | | They bought exclusivity to as many top podcasts as they could | in order to start centralize podcasting on their platform. | Eventually enough momentum shifts, and all the other podcasters | have to go where users go, spotify. They may or may not | succeed. | | The whole thing is quite sad. Podcasts are/were one the the | free digital medias. No mediation. Standard protocol. The | client is just a client. No one tells you what to say, or | controls who listens to what. I wish FB and youtube were that. | | We the geeks have done a terrible job of defining and promoting | digital freedom. Failed to find a way that doesn't sound like a | paranoid eff rant. I don't think Joe really understood that RSS | is a Free (as in freedom) media, perhaps the last. He probably | thought about it as Youtube-vs-Spotify, with Apple and other | RSS clients being more of the same. | mikewave wrote: | > Spotify is trying to be the one that owns it. | | If you're interested in pushing back on this, the Podcasting | 2.0 community welcomes you. Check out | https://podcastindex.org/ for details. | | Podcast 2.0 apps have more metadata, chapters, cover art that | can change like a slideshow during an episode, etc. | jnosCo wrote: | I think you're giving Rogan too much credit if you think he | even for a second would care about Freedom while staring at a | 9 figure check. | teawrecks wrote: | > No one "owned" podcasting, like itunes own streaming | music...Podcasts are/were one the the free digital medias. | | Ironic considering the origin of the term "podcast". | Covzire wrote: | The ads on Spotify for paying US users is what keeps me off of | it for the most part. You can fast forward but it's a gigantic | pain in the ass. | | Their UX is awful too compared to a simple web app, they should | just clone a basic Youtube/Odysee/Rumble functionality for | their video side. | xxpor wrote: | >You can fast forward but it's a gigantic pain in the ass. | | Does Spotify not support FF == skip 10 seconds forward that | every other podcast player does? I have genuinely no idea, | but it wouldn't surprise me. | ub99 wrote: | These long ads are actually separate tracks, so you can | just skip to the end. The pain in the ass aspect comes | mostly from the fact that not everyone has the app open in | front of them. | gmueckl wrote: | When playing podcasts, Spotify skips 15 seconds forwards or | backwards. When playing music, it skips to the next track | or the start of the current track. But you still have to | actively skip ads, which is annoying. | dadver wrote: | Wait, -paying- users get ads in the US? Then why do they pay? | Covzire wrote: | I'm assuming for the privilege of fast forwarding them, but | I'm not sure, it's probably the biggest reason I can't feel | any affinity for the platform at all. I'm happy to chip in | for the service like i do with Youtube Premium, but come | on. They're not short ads either, and I think most of them | are put in place by Joe Rogan himself because they're often | him going on for 2-3 minutes. | dntrkv wrote: | It's only the ads that the podcasters put in themselves. | They are not the Spotify ads. | ub99 wrote: | This makes me wonder... would Spotify allow ads in music? | Can I upload a music track that has an ad in the middle? | Hmm... | kingofpandora wrote: | I don't have Spotify, but check if The Who Sell Out is | there since that has ads in it. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who_Sell_Out | ub99 wrote: | Pretty sure they used fake ads, but it's a good precedent | anyway. | | Edit: and yes the album is available on Spotify in full. | serf wrote: | > Pretty sure they used fake ads, but it's a good | precedent anyway. | | the ads aren't fake.. well, not all of them -- they're | included ironically -- and many aspects of that album | generated legal issues for the band.[0] | | [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who_Sell_Out | FillardMillmore wrote: | The whole album was supposed to be a play on a pirate | radio station if memory serves, and a damn good one at | that. Probably my favorite Who album honestly (besides | Live at Leeds, of course). | p49k wrote: | Even the podcasts that Spotify owns and produces have | ads. So in that case they are putting ads in their own | podcasts for their own paying customers. | paulryanrogers wrote: | It does seem like double-dipping. But I imagine they will | continue to include more and more advertising until they | reached the threshold where people unsubscribe. | njovin wrote: | It's odd, though, that Rogan's podcast only started doing | mid-episode ads after the move to Spotify. Prior to the | move the only ads were at the beginning of the episode. | jack_pp wrote: | I've never heard ads on Rogan's podcast in the past few | years, this might be a US only thing | paulryanrogers wrote: | Maybe analytics indicated that people were skipping the | first chunk of the show to avoid the ads. I know that is | a common feature of other podcast players. | ub99 wrote: | I am surprised you are getting downvoted. Very long ad breaks | on paid accounts are unacceptable and the reason I refuse to | listen to this podcast. | [deleted] | [deleted] | notRobot wrote: | Spotify sucks on Android too - so idk what they think they're | doing. I think iOS (specifically just iPhone) is the only place | where they appear to work on improving their app. | smolyeet wrote: | I don't think so, least in part. Spotify is continuously | petty against apple (for good reason) but their users always | have to pay the price and not have features or get them super | late. The Spotify app on an Android is pretty good and can't | really notice too much difference upon switching back. | They've really downsized their app a lot across all three | platforms. | polote wrote: | > These deals are just payouts for the hosts not investments | that make the shows better | | Honestly I don't think Spotify bought podcasts to make money | from it, they just want people to associate the word "podcast" | with the app Spotify. And so far that works because no other | app gained significant momentum. | | The fact that less people watch the show is almost irrelevant | handmodel wrote: | I think the model of giving away Joe Rogan to all users of | Spotify (even if not paying subscribers) is worst of all worlds | from a business POV. | | Think how many people still subscribe and pay over ten dollars | a month to listen to Howard Stern. I subscribe to a few | podcasts on patreon at $5 just for the few bonus episodes. And | I have trouble believing the ad revenue Spotify gets for this | is anywhere close to what paying customers could be for them. | hellbannedguy wrote: | In Joe Rogan's case, I doubt people would pay. | | Then again, I haven't been able to understand his success. | | I cringe when he calls himself a Comedian. | | I cringe when he talks science. (Always felt someone should | sit down with him and explain The Placebo Effect, and The | Scientific Method, and what goes into a good Clinical study. | I would be shocked if he ever even took Psy 101.) | | Is it the upfront pot use that garners so many admirers? | | He does know his MMA though. | | I have enjoyed his interviews, but it's the guests I find | interesting. | hombre_fatal wrote: | Well, maybe it's more strategic than just short-term dollars | and cents. | | For example, there must be a lot of value in training people | to use Spotify for podcasts at all, starting with the biggest | podcast in the world. As more people use Spotify for | podcasts, Spotify gets more and more power for future | exclusivity negotiations. | | Spotify was certainly just a music app for me until I had to | start using it to listen to Joe Rogan, and it seems | reasonable that the Joe Rogan move was to create this | transition in Spotify users. They clearly don't just want to | be a music app. | INTPenis wrote: | The discussions about Rogans social responsibility are just | silly. He's an entertainer. People need to understand that. | | But his influence dropping, I'm not at all surprised. I used to | follow him until he moved to Spotify. Now I only catch the | occasional clip on Youtube. And I've actually forced myself to | endure the awful spotify UI for some special episodes like Dave | Chappelle. | | But otherwise I'd rather avoid that mess. It's truly awful. | | I don't see how Spotify won anything, as some in this thread are | saying. Youtube still gives you maximum exposure, and for just a | little more than what Spotify charges you get essentially the | same music catalogue, AND youtube premium ad free. I can't deny | that's a good deal to me. I haven't watched TV since 2010, | Youtube has way too much content in truth. | dnissley wrote: | I have to say this seems utterly un-noteworthy. "Person whose | content was free now reaching a smaller audience now that their | content is behind a paywall". | glitchc wrote: | Good. Rogan spouts a great deal of rubbish on topics he knows | very little about. His interviews are good though, some of them. | | Edit: Added "some of them" | fossuser wrote: | It's a mistake for someone with a massive audience and their own | platform to give that up. | | There's a reason Spotify paid him one hundred million dollars (or | whatever it was) - he thought he was getting the better side of | that deal, but he was wrong. | | What Spotify is doing is worse for users, but also worse for | content creators in the long run. Giving up control of your | distribution is a mistake. | jbverschoor wrote: | Joe who? | LAC-Tech wrote: | He's still a lot more influential than The Verge | danschumann wrote: | As a paying customer, I wonder what I'm paying for when I get a | 15 minute ad of Joe Rogan hard pitching me something. | lolsal wrote: | Who is Joe Rogen and why would I care? | throwaway4good wrote: | Joe Rogan would be losing influence regardless if he was confined | to Spotify, simply due to the competition. There is just so much | more podcasting done today than there was two years ago, when he | took the deal. | mhh__ wrote: | I have definitely enjoyed parts of his show a lot, but I | genuinely think him becoming less influential (which I don't | quite buy) is a good thing societally. | pandeiro wrote: | Not surprised this degenerated immediately into a mass ranting | session about pandemic science with pretty much the entire | catalog of cognitive biases and logical fallacies on display. | | I guess that's interesting to some, from a sociological | standpoint, but for me, there's more than enough of this on | literally every other social media platform. | | I'm interested in a discussion about the actual dynamic of | spotify vs youtube dissemination and whether the claims made in | the article are valid. Because the entire premise is backed by | the "secondary metric" of how many Twitter followers a guest's | account grew by -- this seems pretty ripe for confounding | variables, like the appeal of the guest, auxiliary appearances | elsewhere, the news cycle at the time overlapping with the | guest's subject matter, and other things. | | Curious what others think of this. | Thorentis wrote: | Maybe it's the time of day, but HN is usually good at cutting | through the usual politicised stuff, and just discussing the | issue at hand. | | At the end of the day, Spotify isn't a Podcasts platform, and | nobody I know associates Spotify with podcasts. Surely somebody | on Rogan's team knew this, but I suspect the money was simply | too good to pass up. Imagine starting a FinTech SaaS with the | sole purpose of being acquired, and then being offered $100m by | a Biotech company. I'd probably take it. | jessaustin wrote: | There is probably something to this analysis, particularly for | _new_ listeners. (Rogan might be big enough that new listeners | are less important?) Spotify has chosen not to use these other | platforms to the extent that it could use them. This is an | example (perhaps the canonical one?) of Ben Thompson 's | "strategy tax". For an individual podcast, it would be better | to have _something_ on all platforms /protocols/modalities. | They want to attract Youtube viewers as well as RSS subscribers | as well as everyone else. A capitalist firm like Spotify that | wants to make a little money every time anyone ever listens to | anything is comfortable losing a bit on every show it produces, | if it can convince investors that doing so could bring about | their favored apocalypse of rent-seeking. Each show is taxed to | benefit the firm's long-term strategy. | | Spofity seems to have modeled its Rogan acquisition as a | platform crossover event. Lots of loyal Rogan listeners had | never installed a Spotify app, and now a certain percentage of | those people have. However, the way Spofity have structured | this, as a one-time thing in which Rogan no longer reaches | other platforms in comparable ways, seems to limit the | potential benefit of this maneuver. | | The reason I no longer listen to Rogan's podcast is that it is | no longer an actual podcast. My players are still pointed at | his RSS feed, but that thing is dead. I have no interest in | using special apps published by Spotify to listen to something | that used to be available in the normal way. I realize that is | a fairly odd preference, but it satisfies the categorical | imperative. I'm not the only person who strongly prefers to | listen in a particular way. Spofity's strategy is different | from that of many patronage-supported podcasts, which publish | e.g. half of their episodes publicly, with ads encouraging | people who would like more episodes to send money. Those | podcasts are marketed in a more open way than Rogan's. | qwertyuiop_ wrote: | > _To do this, we pulled data from the analytics tool Social | Blade to track the Twitter following of every guest who went on | Rogan's podcast between December 2019 and July 2021. Guests | generally see a surge of new followers after appearing on the | show, with some gaining as many as 18,000 new followers in the | week following their chat, and that effect has grown over time as | The Joe Rogan Experience gained popularity._ | | This is based on post show Twitter following of the guests. What | if his loyal listeners are not into Twitter and are leaving. | comodore_ wrote: | on top of that they highlight repeat guests which makes no | sense. and the fact that they highlight them specifically is | very fishy. | xutopia wrote: | To be fair... his move to Spotify coincided with him spewing more | and more anti-vax and anti-mask drivel that I don't have any | interest in listening to. | timr wrote: | > his move to Spotify coincided with him spewing more and more | anti-vax and anti-mask drivel that I don't have any interest in | listening to | | I listen to his show sometimes, and while I've heard him have | guests on from all sides of these issues, at no point have I | heard him be anything less than a thoughtful, critical | interviewer. | | If that's "drivel", we need more drivel. I'll certainly take it | over everything I see on cable news, which is laser-focused on | advancing a particular narrative, and demonizing anything and | anyone who might deviate from that narrative. | valine wrote: | Giving a platform to crackpots isn't always dangerous, but in | the case of vaccines it's a public health concern. It's | definitely not a good idea to give legitimacy to antivaxers | during a pandemic when people dying. Save that conversation | for another time. | the_third_wave wrote: | Equating any criticism of the strategies pushed by the | medical establishment as "antivaxx" is just as | counterproductive as calling everything "racist" or | "transphobic" or "homophobic" or any of the other epithets | being bandied around by the new puritans. Words have | meanings, these meanings can change over time (language | evolves) but forcing them to change to fit a given | narrative leads to an unhealthy political and social | climate. It is what Orwell wrote about in "1984", what | Solzhenitsyn wrote about in "The First Circle", what | Bradbury wrote about in "Fahrenheit 451", none of which | were meant as user manuals for a healthy society. | timr wrote: | I am a free speech absolutist. The answer to speech you | don't like is more speech, not censorship. | suzzer99 wrote: | Yes, more speech is always the answer. Which is why the | unmoderated internet is a such a bastion of enlightened, | thoughtful discourse. | gjs278 wrote: | it is if you're not fragile | lghh wrote: | Say I'm an interviewer running a podcast about SaaS | startups. Which is more useful? | | 1. I interview a handful of people who have differing | opinions on what it takes to lead a SaaS startup who have | all had successful exist, but have differing opinions on | key issues. Maybe throw in a few people who have | experience working in that type of environment, but maybe | not leading, if you want a little more variety. | | 2. I interview someone who has led a successful exit like | in (1), but I also interview a full time commission | visual artist who has never worked at a SaaS startup. I | give both their ideas on how to run a SaaS startup equal | weight, even when the visual artist isn't making any | sense in the context of the conversation or is spewing | nonsense in the context of the conversation. | | Joe does (2). They are both "free speech", but only one | is actually useful. | dexterdog wrote: | Number 1 is not very good because you're only taking to | people who had successful exits so you're already skewing | the conversation. | manigandham wrote: | When did "useful" become a metric for this podcast? | [deleted] | Applejinx wrote: | I'm not... not anymore... after observing stuff like | this. Like Joe, like some of his guests, like the results | of how things have shaken out. | | Notably, free speech absolutism is impossible to refute | if everyone is arguing in good faith. Since quite a few | influential political actors are demonstrably not, and | are following well-defined tactics dating back to various | fascist regimes such as those who produced WWII, it is | insane to pretend everyone is arguing in good faith. | | And it is both instructive and dismaying to see that the | people most obviously arguing in bad faith have a | tendency to insist, and get others to insist, that free | speech must be absolute and that everyone must be taken | with the assumption that they're arguing in good faith. | | Tactically, it makes perfect sense, but it's a hell of an | exploit. | timr wrote: | The bottom line is I don't trust you to decide what | should be censored. You don't trust me. | | There is no workable censorship regime that does not | devolve into ideological warfare. | depaya wrote: | This has nothing to do with censorship. This person is | saying it is irresponsible for Rogan to entertain and | provide a platform for these things. | swayvil wrote: | And irresponsible people should be censored. | | Lol. | Bud wrote: | Please don't spread confusion about what "free speech" | means. I'm sure you are not actually confused about this, | so please do not pretend to be. | | Having some people not appear on a given podcast is not a | "free speech" issue. Choosing to not be a dangerous idiot | by having dangerous idiots on your show during a pandemic | is not "censorship" or anything remotely close to | censorship as it is commonly, and correctly, understood. | timr wrote: | > Please don't spread confusion about what "free speech" | means. | | I'm not confused. | | > Choosing to not be a dangerous idiot by having | dangerous idiots on your show during a pandemic is not | "censorship" or anything remotely close to censorship as | it is commonly, and correctly, understood. | | When someone decides _for me_ that "dangerous idiots" | should not have a voice -- for whatever justification -- | I'm against them having the ability to act on that | impulse. The wonderful thing about free speech is that if | you don't like it, you're free not to listen to it. | | Every censor has started from the premise that they're | doing good. I don't agree with your opinions, and I'm not | so feeble-minded as to be unable to decide for myself | what I see. | swayvil wrote: | And who picks the "dangerous idiots"? You? Your favorite | authority? | | Ha ha. | WalterBright wrote: | It _is_ censorship when the government leans on you to | not promulgate ideas the government decides are false. | likeclockwork wrote: | You're the only one bringing the Government into this. | WalterBright wrote: | The government has been leaning on to social media | companies telling them to self-censor or the government | will do it for them. | likeclockwork wrote: | And none of that is what this discussion was ever about. | | Conflating criticism with calls for government censorship | is a dishonest rhetorical tactic. | [deleted] | djur wrote: | Speech such as "this guy is full of it, don't listen to | him"? | dexterdog wrote: | Which is fine to say as long as you are not making it so | people can't listen to him if they want it. | valine wrote: | I'm all for free speech in the sense that you have the | right to say what you want without retribution from the | government. Free speech doesn't mean you have the right | to an audience. | secondcoming wrote: | Looks like your comment is losing its right to an | audience | valine wrote: | You clearly read it so maybe not. | tshaddox wrote: | I don't think accusations of spewing anti-vax and anti-mask | drivel have anything to do with his interviewing skills. | They're certainly not mutually exclusive. The parent | commenter didn't make any accusations about his interviewing | skills. | paxys wrote: | How is calling men who wear masks "pussies" while disagreeing | with your guest about it being a thoughtful and critical | interviewer? | nabla9 wrote: | > I heard him be anything less than a thoughtful, critical | interviewer. | | He is the least critical interviewer you can imagine. Being | uncritical and hyped up is his trademark. He is Mr. Softball | to the extent he is made of fun for it. | | He is not thoughtful. He has talent of speaking endlessly and | keeping it going endlessly. | BitwiseFool wrote: | Sometimes the point of a talkshow is to get the guest to do | the majority of the talking. Other talk shows take the | opposite approach and the guest is just a vehicle to let | the host pontificate. Neither is superior. | kadoban wrote: | When you have extremists on and don't challenge what they're | saying, that _is_ pushing a narrative. | | The whole "both sides" thing is the _worst_ of cable news and | why I signed off years ago. Does the Sun orbit the Earth? | Let's get a crazy person on and see. It's okay because we'll | give an expert a few minutes too. | throwawayboise wrote: | You see an equivalency between discussing new vaccine | technologies for a novel virus, and discussing whether the | Sun orbits the Earth? | titzer wrote: | Yeah, when they spout obviously false, easily-checkable | things like "it alters your DNA" that are clearly | intended to scare people. | WalterBright wrote: | From my frame of reference, the Sun indeed revolves around | the Earth. | | Just like the chair you're sitting in is stationary | according to your frame of reference, while from another it | is hurtling through space. | WalterBright wrote: | For the naysayers: have you ever said "The Sun rises in | the east?"? | | I bet you have. From your frame of reference, the Sun | revolves around the Earth. | | I also bet if I asked you "which direction should be a | rocket be launched into earth orbit to minimize fuel | consumption" you'll have to stop and think about it. | pjc50 wrote: | Not in any normal way; the geocentricists tried to build | mechanical models but the increasing number of epicycles | was a big clue that the system was in fact heliocentric. | WalterBright wrote: | I well understand the history of this topic, after all, I | have two years of Caltech physics :-) Nevertheless, as | Einstein demonstrated, things look very different | depending on the frame of reference. | | There's no such thing as a "normal" frame of reference. | | > the geocentricists tried to build mechanical models but | the increasing number of epicycles was a big clue that | the system was in fact heliocentric. | | Not exactly, it was a big clue that the planets did not | move in perfect circles. The mechanical models did not | provide any evidence of heliocentrism. It was Galileo's | observations of Venus that torpedoed the geocentric | theory. | ithkuil wrote: | Does relativity apply also to rotating reference frames? | WalterBright wrote: | Of course. | kadoban wrote: | Is which object orbits which actually relative to a | reference frame though? Does not seem like it should be. | | The Sun has a certain mass, the Earth has a certain mass, | the center of the point of orbit of both (barycenter? | That seems to be the right term) is inside of the Sun no | matter what frame you hang out in. What am I missing? | WalterBright wrote: | You can set up whatever frame of reference works best for | a situation. We do it all the time. It's very convenient | for us earthers to use a geocentric framing of the | universe for our daily life, where the skies revolve | around the Earth. We do it every day. | | Such as the word "sunrise" is very geocentric. We don't | even have a word for the heliocentric term for the same | thing. We also use geocentric phrases like "jets chasing | the Sun" and "sundials track the movement of the Sun", | etc. | brandmeyer wrote: | NIST Technical Note 1385 "GPS Receivers and Relativity" | by Ashby and Weiss discusses how to solve the GPS | positioning equations in a relativistically correct way. | It turns out that since the frame of reference (Earth- | Centered/Earth-Fixed) is rotating, it is non-inertial and | you have to apply some corrections to do the job right. | foldr wrote: | Copernicus' heliocentric system actually had more | epicycles than contemporary Ptolemaic models. | manigandham wrote: | > _" both sides" thing is the _worst_ of cable news_ | | It used to be the best when there was regulation that made | sure equal amounts of attention were devoted to both sides | of an issue with proper research. | | What we have today are ideological echo chambers with some | caricature of an opposing side, not actual debate. | lamontcg wrote: | Yeah, he was always that way and he was always a gateway | drug to the alt-right. | manigandham wrote: | He's had plenty of prominent leftist guests like Bernie | Sanders, and most of his comedian and artist friends are | left-leaning, and he leans left himself. How is this a | gateway to the alt-right? At some point these accusations | just become meaningless. | ajkjk wrote: | The claim isn't that he was a gateway to the alt-right | _by having only a certain kind of guest_, or anything | like that, so that's not really a counterargument. | lamontcg wrote: | Yeah, you can be so open-minded that every piece of | drivel just slides easily through your mind. That isn't | being well informed. You actually need good filters and | know what they're based upon. | | Props to Bernie for taking the battle to the middle | ground though and not preaching only to the choir. He | kind of got shit on for that as well. | manigandham wrote: | I said him and his friends lean left too, so what else | makes it a gateway? These claims are always vague and | unfounded. | teknofobi wrote: | Joe Rogan leans left in the same way someone that starts | their sentences with "I'm not rasist, but ..." aren't | racists. It's just a rhetorical device to convince you | that they don't believe in labels, and then they | immediately use their actions and words to demonstrate | that they fit the textbook description of the label. | | > They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to | challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is | their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, | since he believes in words. | manigandham wrote: | It's the labels that are the problem, used by | unreasonable people to create even more division. Very | few people fit a single side on all issues. | [deleted] | dexterdog wrote: | That's a hell of a lot better than what we get now which is | "we'll pick a single expert and nobody is allowed to | question him because we know that his truth is the right | truth." | beaner wrote: | Ok great, so you've picked a side and have your ears shut. | Don't act like everyone else should adopt that attitude. | hobs wrote: | Well, we haven't proven you're not an (insert horrible | slur here) so let's have an endless stream of guests | speculate on whether or not you are! | JumpCrisscross wrote: | > _you 've picked a side and have your ears shut_ | | OP doesn't claim Rogan should be de-platofrmed. Just that | pushing batshit theories is an explanation for his | declining influence. I enjoy watching flat earthers from | time to time. But I'm not going to make it a part of my | information diet. | pengaru wrote: | No, he's become much more narrative/agenda/propaganda | propagating and conspiracy theory fueling in recent years. | | I used to listen when there were an interesting guest just to | hear them talk at length about their profession/passions, but | it's no longer worth it if the cost is giving rogan a podium | for his self-proclaimed-moron-disclaimed pot-stirring | efforts. | lghh wrote: | But "both sides of an issue" is, in this situation, the right | side of an issue and the wrong side of an issue. | | That's like saying he has guests on both sides of the flat | earth issue, except there are actual lives at stake. | WalterBright wrote: | The point of listening to "wrong" sides of an issue is to | see how well your "right" side stands up to scrutiny. | | The history of science is full of obviously right things | that turned out be be wrong. | | Even Einstein, who upended Newtonian Mechanics, rejected | Quantum Mechanics, since "God doesn't play dice with the | universe". | jessaustin wrote: | "Both sides" is often two wrong sides. The world is not | binary. Those who only listen to both sides might never | notice that. | klaudius wrote: | I suggest you read the book "Virus Mania" for a more skeptical | look on epidemics, masks and vaccines. | technothrasher wrote: | That book is as far from "skeptical" as you can get. Denying | the very existence of viruses is not skeptical, it's | credulity. | glonq wrote: | Yeah, that's about exactly when I stopped listening to him. | Listening to him talk shop with other comedians was always | entertaining. But "serious" Joe is a whackjob, yes-man, and | meat-head. | delaaxe wrote: | I got tired of the excessive gender pronoun politics bs | tyleo wrote: | This has been my experience as well. Another commenter | mentioned this but I also feel like guests have been less | interesting since the move to Austin. I used to be a daily | listener now I feel like it can be months between interesting | episodes. | asdff wrote: | Easier to find someone available to drive to a studio in LA | than to have them fly out of LAX to Austin. | edge17 wrote: | If anyone wants a datapoint, I stop listening to podcasts once | they go to Spotify. I use Overcast, and generally don't have | the wherewithal to chase content. I'm guessing there are more | like me. I was an infrequent listener to Joe Rogan, but now I | am not a listener at all (because it moved to Spotify). | | Also, there seems to be a lot of judgement of the kind of | person Joe Rogan is (conspiracy, etc) in the comments. I have | never once listened to Joe Rogan to listen to Joe Rogan. The | fact of the matter is he gets fantastic guests doing long form | conversations. I only ever showed up for the guests. Generally | also the case for many other podcasts, Lex Friedman, Tim | Ferris, etc.... the value they bring is more the guests they | attract and the space they create for the guest. | | I guess it would be interesting to deep fake the voice of the | host and see how many people actually cared about the host. | kybernetikos wrote: | > I guess it would be interesting to deep fake the voice of | the host and see how many people actually cared about the | host. | | I wonder how good GPT would be at generating questions to a | guest based on their work and interests. Having a GPT driven | interviewer could be quite interesting as a gimmick. | rednerrus wrote: | Same | mavhc wrote: | There's 1000 sane hosts who have the same interesting guests | though, don't support the crazy people, we've seen where that | leads us | jessaustin wrote: | Name ten. | jseliger wrote: | I was also an idle subscriber: I'd start listening to perhaps | one in five episodes, with guests who interest me (think of | people like Elon Musk or Jonathan Haidt). When Rogan left | Apple podcasts/Stitcher, I stopped listening. Your statement | echoes how I feel: "I only ever showed up for the guests. | Generally also the case for many other podcasts, Lex | Friedman, Tim Ferris, etc.... the value they bring is more | the guests they attract and the space they create for the | guest." | dexterdog wrote: | I'm the same way. I used to listen to Stern on the radio for | my morning drive but never considered for a second going | satellite when he did. There were plenty of options. | personlurking wrote: | You basically explained my view and feelings on the matter. I | watched maybe 10 episodes per year on YT but once it went to | Spotify, I don't watch at all. | | Coincidentally, around the same time he went to Spotify, I | started getting really annoyed at his butting in and his | opinions on matters that his guests know a lot more about. | I've caught a clip or two on YT in recent months and I skip | over any parts where the camera is on Joe, so I can just hear | the guest. | paxys wrote: | Exactly this. I used to be a fan of the podcast and have no | problem listening to it on Spotify. It just stopped being | interesting. | isoskeles wrote: | The discussion here is really distracting. Came to read | thoughts about Joe Rogan, and now it's just people arguing | about COVID-19. | patchorang wrote: | Sounds like an episode of joe Rogan. | ajuc wrote: | I like his choice of guests (high percentage of scientists and | interesting people, even if some of them are conspiracy | theorists) and that he mostly lets people talk. But I lost a | lot of respect for him after his recent MMA commentary. I've | never seen such biased commentary in any sport as his in | Adesanya vs Blachowicz. It was absurd. | fatcoward wrote: | > Look at me. I'm a fat coward who gets upset when people say I | should lose weight instead of wearing a mask and getting a | vaccine. | | > Ooooh boy I can't wait to get my Fellas (YC 2021) pills so I | can lose all this fat off of my back. Teehee. | | > Don't forget, we should also all eat soy/tofu and ban guns. | :) Guns are scary. | | > I'm a fat faggot. :) | Graffur wrote: | I listen to him on Spotify and this is just incorrect. The use | of the word 'spew' indicates you might have an agenda. | xx511134bz wrote: | Drivel is also a giveaway. A social credit score is being | erected all around us, yet people complain about "conspiracy | theorists", unbelievable! | | Australia is basically a prison now. Turn on "Show Dead" if | you want to see the good comments. | | Doctor shows how the "COVID-19 vaccine" damages vital organs | in the body - see the shocking evidence | | https://endtimes.video/doctor-covid19-vaccine-dangers/ | yokoprime wrote: | I agree, it's more of a constant undercurrent | [deleted] | president wrote: | Calling people anti-vax and anti-mask when they clearly aren't | is no different from bullying. By the way, there are plenty of | scientists from top institutions like Stanford and even Nobel | Prize winners who have spoken against many of the mainstream | Covid narratives. Not sure how people like you with no medical | domain expertise and experience have the gall to question valid | concerns from respected doctors and scientists. | | EDIT: Downvoted for pointing out smearing/bullying and dropping | factual information. @dang - is this what HN is about? This has | got to change. | jgeerts wrote: | It's hard to listen to recently, he's suggesting working out | and eating vitamins instead of a vaccine. He still has an | influence on people and he's spreading misinformation. | | Rogan is against wearing masks but demands all of his guests to | be tested for COVID-19 before going on his show which is kind | of contradictory. | Fomite wrote: | It also coincided with me canceling my Spotify account. | sakopov wrote: | Yeah, to be fair, that never happened. What did happen is him | saying that if you're older you should stay home and if you're | younger you should be alright with masks, which at the time was | the same message that you'd hear in the media. | TaupeRanger wrote: | To be fair, you're just blatantly ignoring huge swaths of his | anti-vax diatribes. | | He recently pointed to a 5 year old paper to suggest that | vaccinations are bad because they allow more virulent strains | to come about. | | He previously suggested that if you're "young" you don't need | to be vaccinated, which of course his conspiratorial audience | ate up and absolutely adored, ignoring any evidence or | argument to the contrary. | sleavey wrote: | > He recently pointed to a 5 year old paper to suggest that | vaccinations are bad because they allow more virulent | strains to come about. | | Papers from the 1900s are still our best description of | some physical phenomena. A paper's age, taken on its own, | has nothing to do with truth or untruth. | complianceowl wrote: | All of us are right and wrong to varying degrees. I don't think | Joe Rogan cares much for people that stop listening because he | doesn't reinforce their politics. He never has. | | He's also spoken about the whole point of him having FU money | is that he is able to say whatever he wants and not care about | the blowback. | | I'm not anti-vax, but ultimately, my body, my choice. People | who are risk averse are free to self-quarantine for any | duration they please. Us, the unvaccinated, are happy to live | freely and face any associated risks - just like people who | decide to ride motorcycles, play combat sports, or eat | homegrown food. | krastanov wrote: | There are plenty of situations in which we as a society have | decided that freedoms are curbed to protect the masses. Drunk | driving laws for instance. If you are putting people around | you at risk, it seems perfectly reasonable to me to require | you to stay home, not all the other people who have taken the | easy trivial precautions (vaccines and masks) necessary to | protect those around them. | swader999 wrote: | Covid vaccinations have only been proven to protect the | vaccinated from severe outcomes. They don't prevent | infection or re-transmission. There's no valid claim to | pushing this on those that don't want them. | krastanov wrote: | Of course I agree that those who do not want vaccines | should not be forced. But they also should not get to | ruin everything for the rest of us. The r coefficient for | vaccinated people is drastically lower leading to | protecting those that can not get vaccinated (whom, I | guess, unvaccinated people do not mind screwing over). | And vaccinated people are not taking away ICU beds from | people suffering from non-prevetable diseases. | swader999 wrote: | By your logic we should penalize obese people. It's more | of a factor in icu admission stats than vax status. | krastanov wrote: | This is nonsense. The causal feature of the people | saturating ICU capacities is that they are unvaccinated, | not obese. It also matters that getting vaccinated is a | cheap safe triviality, while getting into a healthy BMI | range is an expensive long process (but I would agree | that it should be encouraged). | bwship wrote: | Why is eating healthy and exercising expensive? | krastanov wrote: | Google "food deserts". Some people have 3 jobs and | depression: not much time for going to the gym and eating | healthy. | | And do not be silly: healthy food is way more expensive | per callory. | thegrimmest wrote: | It's the calories that count for obesity, not the | "healthiness". It's perfectly possible to maintain a | healthy body weight eating chips and drinking soda. Time | isn't a factor here, personal responsibility is. | krastanov wrote: | Yes, I am on the same page that all you need is a bit of | discipline (and some baseline amount of crucial nutrients | not present in cheap calory sources). But we all have | about the same "discipline reserve", and some have harder | life circumstances that expend that reserve on more | urgent things than lunch. And this snowballs after it | happens once. But to be fair, I do not really know what | is the percentage of "well-off cushy fat people without a | modicum of health discipline" vs "money-poor and time- | poor stressed depressed fat people". I do suspect the | latter group is bigger, and just yapping about "personal | responsibility" kinda misses the point in that case. | lamontcg wrote: | They both reduce infections and reduce transmission. | | The VE is reduced with delta, but its still nonzero (most | of the studies of what it really is are still incredibly | poor though, but nothing has show it to be below 50% VE | against infection). | | The initial comparable viral load studies are also all | bad. All they did was compare Ct of RNA loads. We now | know that there is less infectious virus in vaccinated | individuals, and that Ct values themselves decline | faster, which indicates they're producing more viral | debris -- we expect studies of transmission to show that | they transmit less. Older studies from earlier this year | against Alpha found that 80% of vaccinated breakthrough | infections produced zero transmitted secondary infections | with the other 20% only infecting 1-3 other people. | | That is sufficient enough impact on infection and | transmission to end the pandemic if everyone was | vaccinated. | | Unfortunately, everyone, including many scientists are | panicking in the face of uncertainty over the delta | variant and assuming the absolute worst and spreading | worst-case messages which are portraying vaccines as not | being worthwhile, when they're still effective enough. | alpaca128 wrote: | > Us, the unvaccinated, are happy to live freely and face any | associated risks | | So I assume you agree to not come running to the hospital | when you get infected, taking away beds for other patients | who shouldn't have to suffer because of your ignorance? | arcticfox wrote: | > Us, the unvaccinated, are happy to live freely and face any | associated risks - just like people who decide to ride | motorcycles, play combat sports, or eat homegrown food. | | I think you've got the wrong analogies going there. You, the | unvaccinated, are principally putting yourselves at risk but | you are _also_ , and more importantly, putting others at | increased risk of transmission from yourself. | | Adjusting your content for accuracy: you, the unvaccinated, | are not allowed by society to do anything you want. Just like | you cannot drive drunk, shoot firearms inside city limits, | urinate on the street, sell poop sandwiches as a food | product, etc. | gjs278 wrote: | wrong. vaccinated people carry the same viral load as | unvaccinated. that's why vaccinated have to wear masks. | edmundsauto wrote: | I think that's OK, as long as you accept the consequence of | being outcast from society - ie not allowed to interact or go | into a public place where you are a threat. "Not making other | people sick during a pandemic" is a pretty reasonable | prerequisite for social interaction. | swayvil wrote: | The downvote button is a tool for crowdsourcing the (very | large) task of censorship. | | Agree? | engineer_22 wrote: | ->ride motorcycles, combat sports, or eat homegrown food. | | What an interesting choice of examples.... Can't help but | thinking one of these things is not like the others. | pertymcpert wrote: | Why aren't you vaccinated? | likeclockwork wrote: | Because he's anti-vax. This is the future where everyone | says they're not aligned with whatever idea then does | everything they can to promote and propagate that idea. | They'll even deny that the idea exists while spreading it | as far as they can. | yodsanklai wrote: | I think he's generally a good interviewer, and I like that he | invites people from all sides of the spectrum, if anything, it | helps me challenging my own ideas. Also, as a non-american, I | feel this is entertaining and give me a glimpse of American | culture. | | That being said, I've lost interested mostly because his guests | have been less interesting (lately, mostly his comedian/fighter | friends). | | BTW, anyone has good podcasts in the same vein to recommend? | upearly3 wrote: | You might check out Koncrete although there's not as much | content. | S_A_P wrote: | He's always been up and down that road. I don't agree with Joe | on a lot of things but I don't know that is his goal. If there | is one thing that I think Joe does reasonably well- its to have | you consider your stance and reasons for feeling that way. I | think it's healthy to reflect on why you take stances on things | like politics, culture and religion. Joe admits that he is "a | cage fighting commentator" and while I think he self labels | that way to sometimes get away with fringe viewpoints I do | think he genuinely is looking for the best ideas. He's | definitely not infallible and he gets on my nerves to the point | I stop listening for periods of time I do think that on balance | his hearts in the right place and he is much less apt to | blindly follow political doctrine a'la Fox News or CNBC. | paulcole wrote: | > Joe admits that he is "a cage fighting commentator" and | while I think he self labels that way to sometimes get away | with fringe viewpoints | | This is the same way John Stewart and Stephen Colbert hid | behind, "I'm just a comedian." It's a great strategy if you | can pull it off. | aeturnum wrote: | I actually think Rogan's approach is exactly the opposite | of Stewart and Colbert (S&C). S&C would critique news | organizations for failing to provide counterpoints. They | would also earnestly advocate for their own views without | feeling the need to provide counterpoints. Their | justification was that they were entertainment - they | believed what they were saying and didn't feel like they | needed to properly inform on every element. | | Rogan feels like he wants it both ways. He wants to pick | the people for his show and get credit when he picks well, | but if people dislike one of his picks he would suddenly | like to be seen as 'mixing it up' or a "cage fight | commentator." He won't really own a view (or the idea of | wanting to expose people to particular thinkers), but he | would rather bring people on in a way where he's seen as | minimally responsible for the uncomfortable content he | produces. | amznthrwaway wrote: | Joe holds and promotes many extreme beliefs but wants | plausible deniability. | | The format he uses lets him do this, empowering | everything from Ivermectin promoters to white | nationalists, while allowing him to feign that he's not | doing that | tinco wrote: | You can pull it off if you've got integrity. John Stewart | surely has plenty of integrity in my eyes. Joe's definitely | also going for integrity, but maybe he's also liable to be | pulled into the views of his guests. He certainly keeps an | open mind, but if you surround yourself with a certain kind | of people at some point you'll develop a bias no matter how | open you're trying to be. | | What's scarier are the persons who for the law are | considered entertainment, but conduct themselves on Fox as | if they're real journalists, and lie and deceive with | impunity. If Joe Rogan could disrupt the right media with | that, the same way John and maybe Stephen did on the left | side, the world would be a better place for sure. | nradov wrote: | There is no real legal distinction between entertainers | and journalists. The separation of news and editorial | content is purely a matter of ethics and not law. | Journalists don't have any special statutory privileges. | macintux wrote: | > Journalists don't have any special statutory | privileges. | | I'd say a special mention in the first amendment is | notable. | nradov wrote: | Nope. US courts have consistently held that the first | amendment applies equally to everyone regardless of | occupation. There is no special legal test to determine | if someone is a member of the press. There are centuries | of case law on this issue. | macintux wrote: | Journalists have (some) protection against being forced | to testify about sources. I guess it becomes a | philosophical question at that point whether being a | journalist is an occupation or an action. | nradov wrote: | Wrong again. At the federal level, journalists have no | such protection. | | https://www.cjr.org/united_states_project/journalists_pri | vil... | macintux wrote: | That article says 30 states have such laws, however, and | another source indicated 49 states (plus DC). | suzzer99 wrote: | For a long time he thought the moon landing was fake. That's | not a position you arrive at with reasoned science and | understanding how the world works. He's stated he thinks | Bigfoot could be real. He does the same thing on a myriad of | other topics. He presents some random quack as just as valid | as real science. | | If he was just some random dude none of this would matter. | But with 11 million followers, sometimes this "my youtube | research is just as valid as your scientific research" | attitude can do real harm, as it did with vaccines. | manigandham wrote: | He's quite literally the "average Joe" (at least when he | started). The reason he no longer thinks the moon landing | is fake is because of reasoned science and understanding | which he learned through the course of the show by talking | to guests like Neil deGrasse Tyson. | likeclockwork wrote: | If you invite me for dinner at your house and I spend 4 | hours forcing you to convince me the Earth is round, even | if I emerge with changed views, are we really going to be | good friends after that? | manigandham wrote: | That's up to you whether you can be friends with people | who change your mind. I don't see why that's so hard but | Rogan's changed opinion should be seen as a success story | about learning. | bwship wrote: | What does understanding about how the world works have to | do with the validity of a moon landing? | toofy wrote: | > I do think he genuinely is looking for the best ideas. | | I lean more towards he's looking for affirmation to be | contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian. | | If he was looking for the best ideas, he would of had a | completely different set of guests. | S_A_P wrote: | I suppose that is possible, but I dont really find him | overly contrarian and a lot of his views are relatively | centrist to slight libertarian. I will say I think he looks | for folks that he jives with more than most qualified for | the subject. But really Im not here to defend Joe and | honestly have not found a lot of compelling guests of late | on his show. I just dont think he is as bad as he is | sometimes made out to be. | amznthrwaway wrote: | I think his defenders are mostly people like you; people | who are fundamentally dishonest assholes. | | They like Joe because he is also a fundamentally | dishonest asshole. | | As evidence, you say you are not here to defend Joe, but | you wrote multiple posts defending Joe. You're a | dishonest little asshole. Just like Joe. | rapind wrote: | He was always into the conspiracy stuff, and it was usually | pretty light and interesting. The tone and guests definitely | changed around the time he moved to Austin (no knock on Austin, | I love that place). Politics and stuff I guess. | | I lost interest too. | Clubber wrote: | I don't think that's accurate. Do you have some links or | anything to back that up? Like actual transcripts, not some | media interpretation. | | "People say, do you think it's safe to get vaccinated? I've | said, yeah, I think for the most part it's safe to get | vaccinated. I do. I do," Rogan said on the podcast. "But if | you're like 21 years old, and you say to me, should I get | vaccinated? I'll go no. Are you healthy? Are you a healthy | person?" | | "If you're a healthy person, and you're exercising all the | time, and you're young, and you're eating well," Rogan | continued, "like, I don't think you need to worry about this." | | If this is what you are referring to, is that really anti-vax? | kelnos wrote: | I don't know anything about what Rogan has said about | vaccinations (I'm not the parent you're replying to), but I | still think this is a very disappointing, dangerously | misinformed take on his part. He's flat-out wrong; if you're | 21, generally healthy, exercising, etc., you absolutely | should get the vaccine. Also note that at first glance what | he says _sounds_ reasonable. He 's not the frothing-at-the- | mouth anti-vaxxer spouting garbage about vaccines containing | tracking chips, or part of the idiot crowd decrying | vaccination as somehow an affront to their liberty. He's | saying something reasoned, in a presumably calm manner, and | that will push even reasonable people believe it, even though | he is completely wrong. | | These takes encourage people to only think about themselves. | Even if a young, generally healthy (unvaccinated) person is | unlikely to get sick (or worse), they could still very easily | end up an asymptomatic carrier, and give it to someone who | isn't in such great shape. Beyond that, an unvaccinated host | is also a great place for the virus to mutate and spread, | prolonging the pandemic for everyone. | | _Everyone_ who is eligible and medically able needs to get | vaccinated. I 'm getting super tired of all this garbage; the | US has had the vaccine supply and capability to be out of the | pandemic by now, but the unvaccinated are screwing over the | rest of us who are doing the right thing. | upearly3 wrote: | Part 1: >I don't know anything about what Rogan has said | about vaccinations. | | Part 2: > I still think this is a very disappointing, | dangerously misinformed take on his part | | lol. "I don't know what he said, but I disagree with it" | Clubber wrote: | In all fairness, I quoted a transcript that I assumed he | was responding to. | clipradiowallet wrote: | > Everyone who is eligible and medically able needs to get | vaccinated. I'm getting super tired of all this garbage; | the US has had the vaccine supply and capability to be out | of the pandemic by now | | That's a rather polarized position... what facts or | experienced led you to this conclusion you stated? | Specifically _" the unvaccinated are screwing over the rest | of us who are doing the right thing"_. | andrewzah wrote: | "Specifically "the unvaccinated are screwing over the | rest of us who are doing the right thing"." | | They're disproportionately taking up resources in | hospitals for example, which do not have unlimited | resources. We could be having a much better response | right now [here in the U.S.] with less load on hospitals, | but we're not, because of selfish and/or gullible people. | | They're also making the pandemic & related economic | measures last longer than necessary. I can't wait for the | next shutdown(s) as more variants evolve then spread and | hospitals become even more inundated. Meanwhile I look at | places like South Korea which have had life continue | relatively normal because people actually wear masks | there instead of politicizing them. | kaibee wrote: | > That's a rather polarized position... what facts or | experienced led you to this conclusion you stated? | Specifically "the unvaccinated are screwing over the rest | of us who are doing the right thing". | | The fact that the unvaccinated are taking up all of the | hospital beds in certain areas of the country..? | [deleted] | sleavey wrote: | > the unvaccinated are screwing over the rest of us who are | doing the right thing. | | I'm curious as to what evidence you base that assertion on. | Respectfully, can you explain your position there? | timr wrote: | > He's flat-out wrong; if you're 21, generally healthy, | exercising, etc., you absolutely should get the vaccine. | | While I generally agree with you, this is an _opinion_ , | not an unquestionable fact. Especially as we're seeing | elevated risk of myocarditis in young men, there's | absolutely a legitimate debate here. | | I don't necessarily think Rogan is the one advancing that | debate, but presenting opinions as facts is not helping | anyone. | [deleted] | crazygringo wrote: | Of course that's anti-vax. | | The main purpose of getting the vaccine isn't just to protect | _yourself_ -- it 's to reduce the chances of you transmitting | it to _others_. It 's about herd immunity, not personal | immunity. Whether you're young and healthy is irrelevant. | ostenning wrote: | Herd immunity is not possible with our current vaccines[1], | which means that coronavirus will continue to propagate | through society whether you decide to get vaccinated or | not. | | You can make the argument that getting vaccinated reduces | the risk of you being hospitalized, which keeps a bed and a | nurse available for someone else. Thats a much more valid | argument to make. | | [1]: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00728-2 | | Edit: for those downvoting me, I've added a reference for | more information | TigeriusKirk wrote: | >Herd immunity is not possible with our current vaccines, | which means that coronavirus will continue to propagate | through society | | This is my understanding as well, which was why I decided | to get vaccinated. If avoiding infection is impossible in | the long run, I should help my immune system prepare for | it. | | I wonder how differently things would be going if the | campaign was "Covid is here to stay. You _will_ get it. | Get vaccinated. " | | Maybe it would help, maybe not. | Clubber wrote: | >I wonder how differently things would be going if the | campaign was "Covid is here to stay. You will get it. Get | vaccinated." | | I actually heard someone say that today, but I don't | remember where. Maybe Breaking Points, but not sure. | | I was certainly rattled when I saw amateur video of | hospital workers stacking bodies in a freezer truck in | NYC. They should do more like that. As morbid as it is, | it gets the point across. | | https://nypost.com/2020/03/30/disturbing-footage-shows- | dead-... | | This wasn't the one I saw but you get the idea. | rkk3 wrote: | > The main purpose of getting the vaccine isn't just to | protect yourself -- it's to reduce the chances of you | transmitting it to others. It's about herd immunity, not | personal immunity. | | Not about personal immunity? Why did we roll it out by age | group then? | ta2987 wrote: | Yes. | JxLS-cpgbe0 wrote: | > should I get vaccinated? I'll go no. | | Yes that's anti-vax. We get vaccinated not just to protect | ourselves from death, but also to protect those around us by | reducing the transmission of disease. | rkk3 wrote: | Acknowledging that vaccines have some risk & at a certain | risk reward trade-off you would not take the vaccine is not | anti-vax. | fatcoward wrote: | WHY AREN'T THOSE PEOPLE VACCINATED TOO YOU STUPID FUCK? | I_cape_runts wrote: | False. The vaccinated can and do transmit the disease. | Vaccination only protects you. It doesn't protect others | around you. | JxLS-cpgbe0 wrote: | It reduces the chance of transmission. That's how it | protects others... | | > Vaccination only protects you | | False. Vaccinated people can still get sick, and | vaccination reduces the spread of disease, protecting | people that aren't you. | | http://cdc.org/ | makomk wrote: | Except that all the existing evidence suggests your | argument is backwards. Whilst Covid-19 vaccination | doesn't provide full protection for either the vaccinated | or those around them, it seems to be much more effective | at protecting the person being vaccinated against severe | symptoms, hospitalization and death than it does at | stopping them catching and spreading the virus to others. | As far as I can tell, literally the _only_ reason | vaccination is primarily framed as a way of protecting | others is because that framing fits better into left-wing | politics; it has nothing to do with the actual evidence. | kelnos wrote: | It's more nuanced than that. Prior to the delta variant, | there was strong evidence that the vaccines also | prevented you from being a carrier of the virus in most | cases. | | The calculus with delta is different, as it does seem | that vaccinated people can spread delta. But the severity | of that spread, as well as the amount of time a | vaccinated person can spread it, is certainly lower than | that of an unvaccinated person. | reanimus wrote: | Yeah, it is! People thinking they don't need the vaccine are | contracting COVID and acting like human petri dishes for new | variants to arise from. It's also ignoring the reality of | COVID aftereffects (like parosmia) that affect young people | who recover too. | clipradiowallet wrote: | How do you come to that conclusion? Specifically your | conflusion that Joe Rogan is "anti-vax" from your sample of | him replying "I'll go no". If that's all it takes for you | to label someone, is someone saying "I'll go no" to a | homosexual encounter also anti-gay? Is someone who doesn't | agree with their governments policy anti-government? Might | want to relax a bit...I hear opinions are like certain body | parts. We've all got them, including Joe Rogan, and getting | up in arms about it doesn't help you or anyone else. | [deleted] | beezischillin wrote: | I stopped watching purely due to the Spotify deal. I was willing | to give it a try until I saw that they were memoryholing | episodes. I might be in the minority here but it felt like a | betrayal. If he wanted more money he could've invested in his own | platform like many others and people would've followed. There's | plenty of other content in the sea. | mr_sturd wrote: | Some old episodes can be found at | https://archive.org/details/jre-001-837 | bostonsre wrote: | memoryholing episodes == ? | [deleted] | ceejayoz wrote: | Spotify didn't bring over the old episodes with people like | Alex Jones, Gavin McInnes, and Milo Yiannopoulos. | | > "There were a few episodes they didn't want on their | platform," Rogan said, per DMN. "And I was like, 'OK, I don't | care.'" https://www.thewrap.com/spotify-deletes-joe-rogan- | podcast-ep... | duxup wrote: | Kinda curious, do fans .. .care about that? | | I guess some do but I don't think I ever listen to past | podcasts that I've already listened to... | nradov wrote: | I'm not particularly a "fan", but I do enjoy listening to | some JRE episodes when he has interesting guests like | Andrew Huberman. I don't care about losing access to old | podcasts any more than I care about Netflix pulling | certain movies. That's just the reality of all streaming | services. Content gets removed all the time for all sorts | of reasons. If you want to maintain access to something | then you'll have to make a local copy on hardware you | own. | pelasaco wrote: | I for example like to hear everything from the beginning | of the pandemics.. it is quite interesting to see now how | wrong/right the experts were. | literallyaduck wrote: | They don't burn books, they just remove them. Those | episodes happened, and removing them is a form of | gaslighting. If they find the content objectionable then | putting a disclaimer, if it is objectionable enough then | removing the entire series from the platform could be an | option, but it is lost history. In this case the artist | doesn't care, and probably is happy to sweep those | episodes under the rug. It is like how Disney wishes they | hadn't made "Song of the South". | duxup wrote: | Aren't they still available on YouTube / elsewhere? | bostonsre wrote: | All of the old ones are on youtube anyways, so I would | guess not. e.g. an alex jones one: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdVso9FSkmE | dylan604 wrote: | If you're recommending someone should listen to a | previous episode you might be interested that it is | avaialable or not. | ceejayoz wrote: | > Kinda curious, do fans .. .care about that? | | Beyond bad faith concern trolling, I suspect not. | kristjank wrote: | Shame. Not to condone these people, but since getting along | with everyone was Joe Rogan's thing, I think they should've | embraced it. But Joe was most likely not glad to preserve | that part of his career either, otherwise I assume he would | protest. | kbenson wrote: | $100 million is a lot of incentive to not protest. The | line between actually important and kinda important gets | really well defined when you throw that much money on the | table. | chaoticmass wrote: | Removing certain old episodes from the catalogue (as if they | never existed, so they become forgotten) | correct_horse wrote: | Memory hole is from 1984. It is where they put papers to be | incinerated and forgotten. Spotify removed a few Joe Rogan | episodes IIRC. | [deleted] | TakerofVita wrote: | I'm guessing this: | | > A memory hole is any mechanism for the deliberate | alteration or disappearance of inconvenient or embarrassing | documents, photographs, transcripts or other records, such as | from a website or other archive, particularly as part of an | attempt to give the impression that something never happened. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_hole | blendergeek wrote: | I believe GP is refering to the fact that Spotify has removed | episodes from Joe Rogan's back catalog that have been deemed | controversial [0]. | | [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-rogan-experience- | podcast... | megablast wrote: | > memoryholing | | Who talks like this?? | bb123 wrote: | What does memoryholing mean? | indy wrote: | Some episodes are no longer available, as if Spotify wants | everyone to forget that they even exist. Episodes featuring | Milo Yiannopoulos, Alex Jones etc. In other words, guests | that offend the progressive attitudes of Silicon Valley | [deleted] | jimt1234 wrote: | Rejecting people that promote the "Sandy Hook was fake!" | conspiracy theory and even harassing the parents of | murdered children isn't a way to avoid offending the | "progressive attitudes of Silicon Valley". It's just common | decency. ... Can we at least set the bar at that level -- | that we _don't_ harass the parents of murdered children for | clicks? | secondcoming wrote: | Rogan called Jones out on that in one episode. | ErikVandeWater wrote: | Interviewing influential figures is important. | pjc50 wrote: | Interviewing libelous crackpots _gives_ them influence. | Without interviews, they 're seldom influential. | ErikVandeWater wrote: | I'm pretty sure Alex Jones has a big platform for | himself. | russdpale wrote: | Yeh LOL sandy hook denial is for progressive silicon Valley | types who aren't progressive. Maybe Spotify doesn't want to | be the 'dive bar' of web platforms. | | If you aren't offended by Alex Jones you got deeper issues, | or perhaps are just ignorant to his white nationalist | messaging. | [deleted] | Milolol wrote: | Milo Yiannopoulos is a self-proclaimed white supremacist, | that offends more than "the progressive attitudes of | Silicon Valley," it offends everyone that's not a white | supremacist. | | Alex Jones testified to being a performance artist and | hosts a talk show purely to hawk merchandise. Does that | really fit the mold of a thought-provoking podcast like | Rogan's? | LegitShady wrote: | >Milo Yiannopoulos is a self-proclaimed white supremacist | | Pretty sure he said that while married to a black dude, | so unless you can come up with something specific I think | its comedy/trolling. | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: | He's not white supremacists. He openly says he prefers | black men and has on several podcasts. He's just not a | typical gay man so he gets villified. | [deleted] | Covzire wrote: | What happened? Liberalism used to have a solid footing on | the essentials of the constitution. If your enemies or | people you don't like don't have rights, you don't | either. The ACLU used to understand this probably better | than most organizations and today, like much of CA and | NY, they're lost. | I_cape_runts wrote: | I'm hesitant to delete something from public consumption | just because it's offensive or not liked. | meowface wrote: | >Milo Yiannopoulos is a self-proclaimed white supremacist | | I think Milo is a scumbag, personally, but where did he | self-proclaim that he's a white supremacist? | | >Alex Jones testified to being a performance artist | | No, he didn't. His lawyer attempted to argue that he was | during a lawsuit, as a defense against full culpability | for his actions. Lawyers (understandably) try to pull out | everything they can to help their client. There's no | evidence Jones himself has ever said this or thinks this. | | Although most of his non-watchers seem to think he's just | a con artist, after watching a cumulative dozens of hours | of him on camera over the years, I'm convinced it's not | an act and that he genuinely believes pretty much | everything he's saying (except for cases where he's | attempting to do a comedy bit). Unfortunately, a lot of | people in the US believe all of the things he believes - | and not necessarily because they're hearing it from him. | They all drink from the same watering holes. In my | opinion, this is why it's actually a lot more frightening | than con artistry or performance art. | foldr wrote: | These people are too smart to literally say "yes I am | [the bad thing]", but Milo is not exactly subtle about | where his sympathies lie: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/ar | ticle/josephbernstein/heres-h... | cxf12 wrote: | To be fair, Milo was pretty thought provoking. | kelnos wrote: | I would be thrilled if both of those people simply ceased | to exist, but I think it's dishonest to delete and | "forget" old episodes of a show because you later decide | that the guests on those episodes were terrible people. | | (I don't consider it material that presumably Spotify | required deleting them as part of the deal. Rogan agreed | to those terms, so clearly the money was more important | to him.) | effingwewt wrote: | Right, so don't listen to those episodes. I, on the other | hand, like hearing both sides so I can make an informed | decision on _why_ I disagree with whomever. | | 'So and so is bad, I heard it from X' has never been good | for any human society. | | Pretending the episodes don't exist is rewriting history. | | 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to | repeat it.' | | Personal point- if I saw Alex Jones personally I would | not want to be him. He has, for his own enrichment, | destroyed personal relationships, caused me endless | arguments with friends/family and is a walking detrament | to society. I hate with a passion the garbage he spews to | sell some garbage fake pills. But I still believe he has | a right to be heard. | | We need to educate people not shelter them. | Mountain_Skies wrote: | It wasn't just those two people. https://www.reddit.com/r | /JoeRogan/comments/ikf9at/full_list_... | | Also how do you know that either of those people are what | others have told you they are? If you're unable to listen | to them because they've been depersoned everywhere, you | have no way of knowing if they're truly as represented or | have been character assassinated. I'm not trying to | convince you that either of them aren't who you think | they are (from what I've seen, you're not far off) but | rather have you see that you could be wrong about them | (or others in the future) if you are not allowed to hear | them first hand and only get views of them filtered | through others. | pugets wrote: | On episode #1682 he talks about both figures. He was | saying he does feel a responsibility to vet his guests so | that he doesn't just have crazies using his platform to | spew vile, but ultimately that neither figure harms | anyone just by being a guest on a podcast. He talked | about how even if you hate Alex or Milo, you can still | gain something from listening to them speak. Maybe you | can figure out why you hate them, or maybe listening to | them directly will make you understand them in a | different light. | | Maybe this is a 1990s George Carlin thing to say, but so | what if Milo offends people? Should we only be allowed to | hear things that don't offend us? | blackshaw wrote: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_hole | pcstl wrote: | Deleting something produced in the past such that it cannot | be found anymore. | kristjank wrote: | Wiping and unacknowledging something's past existence. Think | unpersons in 1984. | blahblahblogger wrote: | I didn't like them banning episodes too. There were internal | movements from Spotify employees (liberal Silicon Valley | workers) who wanted episodes completely censored and removed. | Joe talked about it a few times and I read some articles. | | The irony is that by moving to these liberal employees' | platform, he's losing influence :) | | By creating a crappy podcast platform they've ensured they get | what they want and he ends up diminished. | arodgers_la wrote: | Comedian Bill Burr said it best: "I'm not gonna sit here with no | medical degree, listening to you with no medical degree, with an | American flag behind you smoking a cigar acting like we know | what's up better than the CDC." [0] | | That quote is Joe Rogan's shtick in a nutshell. | | [0] https://youtube.com/watch?v=tSKVXl-WnrA&t=5m20s | atlgator wrote: | The shtick is not limited to covid matters either. Most of his | non-MMA takes start with him not saying he's an expert followed | by a very naive and unnuanced summation of a problem. Lex | Fridman does the same thing for non-robotics/AI issues. | supperburg wrote: | Says people who don't watch joe rogan. Joe rogan has two kinds | of guests: experts/scientists and show biz people. The former | are why I watch the podcast. And I think it's important because | it gives a platform to people are being ignored by the | mainstream. Take for example Paul Saladino. Watch that podcast | and tell me it's pseudo science. You can't because he's | meticulously citing a paper and bringing up that paper to the | screen practically every five minutes. And he's an MD. And he's | been proven right by CAC score. And he's planning an angiogram | which if it comes out clean will be incontrovertible... he was | right. It annoys me that people want to shut down joe rogan for | harmless speculation he makes. If you think of Galileo and his | conflict with the church, he's very much like a joe rogan | guest. Has a controversial but correct scientific insight, | clashes with authority and the old dogma. There's definitely | been a handful of people like that. The MAPS guy comes to mind. | His vindication was massive and joe rogans contribution to that | was probably not insignificant. | landonxjames wrote: | I came across a very thorough analysis of the Paul Saladino | episode [0] the other day when I was researching him after a | friend recommended his book. Seemed like he was cherry | picking evidence pretty hard and that the majority of the | evidence doesn't agree with his stance at all | | [0] https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/paul-saladino- | on-... | supperburg wrote: | I will read the full thing later but I find it hard to | believe when you see this | | "Moreover, the current western lifestyle is characterized | by high fat intake" | | Which is stated as fact when it's not even true. Fat has | been stripped out of everything. Even milk has the fat | taken out of it. Look anywhere and you will see "fat free" | | And while I agree that a lot of what saladino says doesn't | have enough evidence to be totally sure, what everyone | always ignores is when saladino points out that there isn't | enough evidence to be sure of the lipid hypothesis of heart | disease. There has never been a randomized, interventional | study that proves anything anyone says about meat, fat, | heart disease and health. Not one proper study. Meanwhile, | him and other people have zero CAC on a diet that should | have _killed_ him according to the current model. And there | are many other people who have done this. I can't dig into | the "debunk" right now but that's the value I take out of | saladino | PragmaticPulp wrote: | > And while I agree that a lot of what saladino says | doesn't have enough evidence to be totally sure, what | everyone always ignores is when saladino points out that | there isn't enough evidence to be sure of the lipid | hypothesis of heart disease. | | This is a common, but lazy, trope trotted out by people | like Saladino. It's the same "It's just a theory" | argument that climate change deniers use. | | There is a lot of evidence showing that things like | elevated LDL cholesterol has a cumulative (area under the | curve) negative effect on heart health, and that | saturated fat consumption is directionally negative for | heart health. You'd be hard pressed to find an actual | cardiologist or researcher who believes these things | aren't true. So why do you choose to believe a known | salesman with a conflict of interest in promoting his | expensive supplements and books on the topic? | | You seem to be assuming a specific conclusion is true and | cherry-picking the single person who wants to sell that | conclusion to you. There are plenty of citations to the | contrary, many of which are in the article linked above. | supperburg wrote: | These are extremely valid points. Even Shawn baker | doesn't like the fact that Paul directly profits from | promoting carnivore. | | It's funny you say there's a lot of evidence showing LDL | is bad etc, ok then show me the randomized interventional | study regarding animal fat. Regarding carnivore. You | can't and so whenever you say "there's lots of evidence" | you also have to say "but it's still unproven." And yes, | there is a difference between me and people who deny | gravity or global warming because in my case, the study | is absolutely trivial to perform! But it never happens | because the academic community refuses to put people in | (hypothetical!) danger by feeding them animal fat. It | would be immoral and most importantly very unfashionable | to perform a study like that. | | Here's the rub: nobody I know or have seen has | experienced a decline in their health from carnivore. | There's no hard evidence that it's bad for you. That guy | from the grateful dead did it for 40 years and never had | a heart problem. I want a randomized controlled and | interventional study that simply shows us what difference | it makes to be carnivore rather than something else. I | will happily shut up forever if we did that and I was | wrong. | PragmaticPulp wrote: | > Here's the rub: nobody I know or have seen has | experienced a decline in their health from carnivore. | There's no hard evidence that it's bad for you. | | Carnivore Diet wasn't really a thing until about 2018, | aside from scattered anecdotes ( https://trends.google.co | m/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=c... ) | | Heart disease develops over decades. | | It's very disingenuous to declare that "there's no hard | evidence that it's bad for you" when the vast majority of | experimenters have barely been doing this for about 3-4% | of their expected lifespan. | dota_fanatic wrote: | Was going to link this exact article, but you beat me to | it. :) My biggest problem with Saladino's episode was that | early in it became clear that he is a zealot, and almost by | definition zealots are rarely generally "right" or "not | pseudoscience" as GP claims in this specific case. | Especially when their object of zealotry is an extremely | complex field that we're only just beginning to understand. | It's difficult to trust anything a zealot says. I surely | don't have time to dig into all the ways in which they're | using the "science" to support their perspective. | PragmaticPulp wrote: | Saladino isn't so much a zealot as he is a salesman. He's | building a personal brand and business around being the | contrarian carnivore guy. He wants you to buy his books, | buy his supplements (which cost as much as $68 per bottle | for trivially cheap ingredients), and sign up for his | newsletter so he can pitch you more stuff. | | He may actually believe what he's pitching, but he's so | drowning in financial conflicts of interest and personal | brand-building that I don't think he could accept | contradictory evidence from anyone. He only sees what he | wants to see because that's how he makes his money and | builds his fame. | | It's fascinating to see him cited by the grandparent | comment because Saladino is a notorious quack among the | actual nutrition communities, including keto communities. | He presents himself as a doctor but conveniently forgets | to mention that he's a psychiatrist. He cherry-picks | citations from papers that he knows listeners won't | actually read and then presents them out of context. | | And most of all, he sells his brand and products hard, | which should be a huge red flag for anyone being | delivered this uniquely contrarian information that | defies mainstream medical science. It's fascinating that | this person concluded he's an expert in the field simply | because he was on the Joe Rogan podcast. I suppose that | is the problem with the JRE podcast: Too many of the | listeners think they're equipped to identify the real | truth, while Joe Rogan serves up a steady diet of | convincing quacks interleaved with actual experts. | dntrkv wrote: | This is the problem with misinformation nowadays. | Everything is "backed by studies." The problem is, the same | study can be interpreted to support two opposing views. | | Hell, I'm sure if this Saladino guy just completely made up | a study and presented it as fact, the vast majority of the | users will never bother to check if that study even exists, | let alone verify the claims. Most listeners are just there | to reaffirm their preexisting beliefs. | | Personally, I just don't trust people that push such narrow | solutions to complex systems (nutrition in this case). | nemothekid wrote: | > _Says people who don't watch joe rogan. Joe rogan has two | kinds of guests: experts /scientists and show biz people._ | | As someone who has been listening to Joe (on and off) for ~5 | years, it's hard to believe that you haven't noticed a trend | in the type of guests Joe has on in past year. I really feel | it _used_ to be that Joe would have on a wide range of people | but now it seems that he 's created an echo chamber. For | example, at the start of the pandemic, in March, he had | Michael Osterholm on his show - a top epidemiologist. He took | it seriously at first, but once he was tired of lock downs, | he has had several more "alternative" scientists to appease | his world view and is pretty much antagonistic to anyone | else. | | I was listening him talk to Rhonda Patrick this morning | (who's been on the show multiple times) and I was completely | flabbergasted about how incredulous he seemed to be then | Rhonda talked about vaccines. Think about that - this is one | of his most credentialed friends and now he's incredibly | skeptical as he's gotten even more dogmatic in his views. | | And I'm sorry, diet fads are as old as America. You can pull | up medical papers justifying almost anything when it comes to | gastronomy. I hate this idea that has creeped further into | the American psyche that people are pushed out of the | mainstream because of the liberal boogeyman. You have quacks | that are backed up by as much data as Saladino saying that | going vegan will give you super powers. Some people are just | wrong, and I'd be critical of the praise Joe gives a guy like | Saladino given that Joe also has a vested interest in | Saladino being correct as well. | danenania wrote: | Dogmatic... really? It's hard for me to think of a _less_ | dogmatic public figure. His views are all over the place, | change frequently, and aren 't at all consistent with each | other. His critics (on both right and left) generally seem | to want him to be more dogmatic, not less; they want him to | be consistent with _their own_ preferred dogma. | | To me Joe comes across as someone who's figuring it out as | they go and doesn't have a filter. I personally find this | refreshing compared to zealots who are certain they have | all the right answers on very nuanced and complex topics. | | Edit: Ok downvoters, what is Joe Rogan's "dogma"? Honest | question. | nemothekid wrote: | His views are only all over the place if you try to | bucket him in the American "Democrat/Republican" binary | bucket. If you listen to him for a long time he is | surprisingly consistent a number of issues. For example, | Joe is a huge supporter of public welfare. He grew up, | temporarily, on food stamps and has always pushed back | when even the most right of guests would call people on | welfare lazy. Likewise I feel he has an incredibly poor | track record on trans rights and can be very transphobic. | That said, it's very difficult for people to communicate | outside the "Democrat/Republican" playing field and | people seem to love team sports more than discussion. Now | that said, Joe is a human being and is welcome to his own | beliefs, but whereas before I felt like Joe would have a | mix of people on, his _newer_ guests tend to be people | who reaffirm his beliefs. | PragmaticPulp wrote: | > Joe rogan has two kinds of guests: experts/scientists and | show biz people. The former are why I watch the podcast. | | Many of us have tried to listen to Joe Rogan for the former | category. When I catch an interview with someone I already | know and respect (e.g. John Carmack), it's not bad. | | But Rogan is also notorious for bringing on over-confident | "experts" who present their pet theories as done deal | research. Saladino is a perfect example of this over- | confidence. Citing papers and having a medical degree doesn't | automatically make someone infallible or even correct. | | > And he's an MD. | | Saladino has a medical degree, but did you know he's a | psychiatrist? Perhaps a good degree to have for manipulating | people, but I prefer to get my nutrition research from | nutrition researchers, not psychiatrists who have webstores | selling $60 supplements. | | Saladino profits by building his brand: He sells books. He | sells coaching. He sells extremely overpriced supplements. He | has a branded web page with his Joe Rogan interview as the | background and a "Join my Tribe" link at the top. | | Saladino is a salesperson who is pitching you on his theories | to sell you products and extract money from you. Joe Rogan is | unqualified to push back on it, so he gives these people a | huge audience with which to push their agendas. | | And it works! Here you are, completely convinced that | everything he said is true and accurate, while it's trivially | easy to find fact checkers showing how he made incorrect | claims all through that podcast ( | https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/paul-saladino- | on-... ). | | That is the problem with Joe Rogan's podcast. | supperburg wrote: | Yes, I knew he specializes in psychiatry. He went to the | same medical school and took the same classes as any other | kind of doctor. | vernie wrote: | And we can't forget about Rogan's thought-provoking segment | with the DN guy. | techrat wrote: | You forgot the third kind of guest he has... | | White supremacists and Crypto Fascists. | | He just lets them talk unchallenged. | 99_00 wrote: | >acting like we know what's up better than the CDC | | Bill Burr is a comedian. He's telling a joke. A joke something | someone says to cause amusement and and laughter. | | Everyone should question and seek information on issues they | care about. | paulpauper wrote: | the health experts a year ago said vaccines would make this go | away, and before that they predicted that masks and social | distancing would flatten the curve. With the exception of a few | countries, none of that happened. At this ponit, I don't think | anyone knows anything. | | due to rampant downvoting, I will respond to individual replies | here: | | "This worked perfectly basically anywhere people actually | complied. " | | Italy had among the strictest lockdowns in April but saw a huge | resurgence at the end of2020 | | " Largely it did happen, we just don't see the counterfactual. | It could have been a lot worse. " | | That is moving the goalposts. The claim by the experts was that | the vaccines were 95% effective at stopping the spread. It | seemd that way until a few months ago when Deltacame along. | eloff wrote: | Vaccines, masks, and restrictions did all work to "flatten | the curve". Your assertion that they did not is a very | minority opinion and the onus is on you to back that up with | data. | | It should be fully intuitive that anything that reduces the | r0 value for spreading the disease flattens the curve | compared to what it could have been. That somehow it is not | obvious to you suggests your sense making apparatus has been | hijacked by something. Take a good hard look at yourself. | | To the downvoters, you are retarded. Sincerely. | nate_meurer wrote: | > _The claim by the experts was that the vaccines were 95% | effective at stopping the spread._ | | No, vaccines are not expected to prevent infection or | "spread", and almost none do. For example, flu vaccines don't | keep you from from getting infected, and the virus still | spreads successfully even when vaccination rates are high. | What the flu shot does is (hopefully) cause you to have less | severe symptoms. | | Vaccines are designed and tested to prevent disease _in | spite_ of infection. This is a universally understood | principle in the field of immunology, regardless of the CDC | 's confusing messaging. | | The current evidence indicates that the vaccines are doing a | good job of preventing hospitalizations due to covid. | read_if_gay_ wrote: | If that is such an universally understood principle then a | lot of people are badly misinformed. I can't count how | often I hear "if everybody just took the vaccine the virus | would be gone within _insert timespan_ " even in academic | circles. | nate_meurer wrote: | > _if everybody just took the vaccine the virus would be | gone within insert timespan_ | | No, the expectation is that a successful vaccination | campaign will end the pandemic, by making the burden on | healthcare systems manageable. Nobody serious thinks we | can eradicate the virus like we did with smallpox. It | will always be with us, causing infection. | | This is how al vaccines work, with the exception of HPV | and possibly measles. Vaccines are not expected to | provide sterilizing immunity, and they don't need to as | long as they prevent serious disease due to the | infection. | | Within the field of immunology this is common knowledge, | and I wish the CDC would message it more clearly. | recursive wrote: | It's not enough for vaccines to exist. People have get | vaccinated. That has not happened (enough). | | How do you know the curve wasn't flattened? I don't know | whether it was or not. It seems the only way to find out for | sure is to compare the curve to what it would have been in an | alternate timeline. | kaibee wrote: | > they predicted that masks and social distancing would | flatten the curve. | | This worked perfectly basically anywhere people actually | complied. | goostavos wrote: | https://www.covidchartsquiz.com/ | mavhc wrote: | Seems like an unbiased source. I made my own chart: | https://imgur.com/a/mI8OdpW | knownjorbist wrote: | This really takes the cake for misleading charts, devoid | of context or controlling for other factors when drawing | conclusions. | swayvil wrote: | The hivemind is always right. Conform or suffer. | pjc50 wrote: | Largely it did happen, we just don't see the counterfactual. | It could have been a lot worse. | [deleted] | mikepurvis wrote: | First, places with high vaccination rates are crushing it. | There basically isn't a fourth wave in Waterloo Region [1], | and we have 85% one dose, 78% two doses at present. | | Second, those predictions were made ahead of a year of | mutation-- delta in particular. | | [1]: https://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/health-and- | wellness/posit... | victor9000 wrote: | The problem people have with Joe Rogan, and everyone else like | him, is that they're spreading misinformation without having an | ounce of education in the subject at hand. People should be | listening to the CDC, the FDA, getting vaccinated, wearing | masks, and washing their hands. That is best solution we have | to the problem, end of story. No amount of agreeable platitudes | will make any difference if this disease continues to mutate | among the unvaccinated population. Arm chair commentators are | not more capable at understanding virology and immunology than | the CDC, and their beliefs are completely irrelevant when it | comes to fighting this disease. | pandeiro wrote: | The State is always benevolent and we should always believe | and do everything they say. End of story. | techrat wrote: | False dichotomy. You're not going to enable an honest | debate by going straight to fallacies. | ipaddr wrote: | The best solution is not a vaccine that works for a few | months requiring multiple booster shots meanwhile the rest of | the world cannot get enough for one shot. And then allowing | the rest of the world to fly in. | | Putting all your faith in the CDC and choosing not to allow | yourself to form your own opinions is an interesting | strategy. It absolves you of any responsibility. Do you vote? | Choosing someone to make decisions on things you are not an | expert on would seem like a huge responsibility you wouldn't | be qualified for. Do you leave those decisions for others? | andrewmcwatters wrote: | Bill Burr might be right, but there are, for example, people | who think satirical news shows are actual _credible_ news. I | don 't think what Joe Rogan does is much above a step beyond | that sort of entertainment. | nmz wrote: | Fox news has news in its name and the daily show got emmy's | every single time, not to mention that time The colbert | report tried getting a super pac and managed to get it. | | Last week tonight is quite credible. | jonny_eh wrote: | The Colbert Report did more to educate Americans about Super | PACs than any legit news source: | https://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/stephen- | colberts... | | Meanwhile Fox News continues to mislead Americans with active | disinformation on a daily basis. | [deleted] | VelkaMorava wrote: | During that episode I have came to conclusion that Bill Burr is | who Joe Rogan sees as himself. Eloquent, humorous, says- | he's-stupid-but-he-is-actually-smart, able to step back and | look at all the stupid stuff everyone does (including himself). | | Except Rogan is actually this: | https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/8xofvi/joe_rogan_... | OJFord wrote: | I opened this thread wondering who Joe Rogan is; glancing at | that I'm not surprised I don't know, and have certainly lost | any interest in knowing! | mhh__ wrote: | The thing of Joe Rogan shouting at the primatologist about | the "new" chimpanzee is genuinely hilarious | | https://youtu.be/__CvmS6uw7E | godelski wrote: | > During that episode I have came to conclusion that Bill | Burr is who ~~Joe Rogan~~ people on the internet see~~s~~ | themselves as~~himself~~. Eloquent, humorous, says- | he's-stupid-but-he-is-actually-smart, able to step back and | look at all the stupid stuff everyone does (including | himself). | | FTFY | | Side note, on /r/Math the other day I saw a great joke. | | People in real life: Ops, I'm bad at math. I need a | calculator to calculate a tip. | | People on the internet: Allow me to demonstrate to you why | I'm bad at statistics but confident I'm right and all the | scientists are wrong. | serverholic wrote: | I've noticed that a lot of overly-confident people do this. | They essentially have a list of preferred topics and always | try to bring the conversation to those topics. | mjklin wrote: | > What's your rap these days? Most of us have one. Is it a | disquisition on the stupidity of television, the rapacity | of multinational corporations, how the Yuppies had it | coming to them, the thrills of motorcycling, the perils of | tuna fish? Some people are always ready to mount the | soapbox. (It's the twelfth time you've heard this guy's | tirade and it was already boring the second time around.) | | > The worst sort of rap is the pet peeve. Pet peeves manage | to smuggle their way into every conversation, no matter | what the topic. Marty is hung up on America's foolishness | in not imposing tariffs against the Japanese. It's not | clear why he takes this so personally, but he's definitely | obsessed with the problem. The topic of conversation is | Monday-night football? Marty contrives a quick segue to the | state of television in America, orchestrates a smooth turn | to the subject of the future Japanese control of the | entertainment business, and-- presto-- tariffs. Marty's rap | is boring for the same reason the preacher's is-- it's | predictable-- but it's also an imposition. He uses friends | as a sounding board for his venting. | | - From the book _Everyday Ethics_ by Joshua Halberstam | godelski wrote: | I don't mind this as much. At least they are talking about | things that they are knowledgeable about. What I don't like | is when people are overly confident about their YouTube | degree. The armchair experts that need to prove how smart | they are, even if you're an expert in the field they're | talking about. It is excruciatingly painful. | ErikVandeWater wrote: | The CDC has been an embarrassment. No emphasis on protecting | the most vulnerable. | beaner wrote: | For it to be the schtick that'd have to be sort of the pont of | the show, but it's only a topic of discussion so long as it's | made relevant by those in our society, and even then that | ignores the large diversity of guests and topics in his show. | | There's nothing wrong with listening to two regular people have | a conversation regardless of their qualifications for the | topics they're discussing. They don't pretend to be | professionals. (Hence why that quote can be said and why they | can laugh about it.) | mmrezaie wrote: | I think we all know JRE is not about two people having shit | conversation. I used to listen to it since 2016. In the past | couple of years, JRE is all about let's bring out what | triggers the other side; no matter what the other side is all | about. | | I have friends I have lost because of this, whom I have no | idea how to respond to their messages anymore; Intelligent | and educated ones. | | Regular people argument doesn't apply in here. | hirvi74 wrote: | I agree. He used to have interesting guest, and I felt the | conversations were more organic. I quit watching a few | years back because I did not enjoy the direction the | podcast was going in. | pohl wrote: | Joe is "regular people"? He's a sitcom actor. He makes a | couple hundred million a year on podcast ad revenue alone. He | only presents himself as a "regular" person because that's | the demographic he's targeting. | manigandham wrote: | He does not make "hundreds of millions a year" on podcast | ad revenue, that's a ridiculously high number. The entire | podcast ad market is barely $1B total. | Bud wrote: | FYI, no, he makes about an order of magnitude less than | that, total, from all sources. | | He made $30M last year. | usefulcat wrote: | The trees have been refuted but the forest remains.. | 0xy wrote: | The CDC has repeatedly made misleading statements though. | | In particular, the CDC recommended against the use of masks | early in the pandemic, which may have caused many thousands of | cases and deaths. | | More recently, they've been wishy-washy on masks again. | Backflipping repeatedly on whether vaccinated individuals | should wear masks. | bloopernova wrote: | The various health authorities told people not to use masks | _at first_ because: | | Hospitals were in danger of running out of protective | equipment. | | The public was panic buying anything and everything. Remember | empty grocery store shelves? Price gouging people who were | hoarding all the hand sanitizer? | | When those circumstances changed, so did the advice. | | There's no one on earth who gets everything right first time, | and thus never needs to change their mind. Not one single | person. | | Why do you value an opinion or advice that never changes? | 0xy wrote: | The CDC did not say "don't buy masks because healthcare | professionals need them". The CDC falsely claimed they were | not effective. | | This false narrative persists even today. | | How many thousands died because they were told by an | authority masks don't work? | | Your point of view seems to suggest that the ends justify | the means. I ask you how many deaths are an acceptable | amount of collateral damage to protect the health system's | access to masks. 1,000? 5,000? 50,000? | wrycoder wrote: | It persists, because procedure/surgical masks do | virtually nothing to stop SARS2. [0] I won't even mention | cloth masks. | | _In sum, of the 14 RCTs that have tested the | effectiveness of masks in preventing the transmission of | respiratory viruses, three suggest, but do not provide | any statistically significant evidence in intention-to- | treat analysis, that masks might be useful. The other | eleven suggest that masks are either useless--whether | compared with no masks or because they appear not to add | to good hand hygiene alone--or actually | counterproductive. Of the three studies that provided | statistically significant evidence in intention-to-treat | analysis that was not contradicted within the same study, | one found that the combination of surgical masks and hand | hygiene was less effective than hand hygiene alone, one | found that the combination of surgical masks and hand | hygiene was less effective than nothing, and one found | that cloth masks were less effective than surgical | masks._ | | N95 are better, but those are not generally available to | civilians. | | [0] https://www.city-journal.org/do-masks-work-a-review- | of-the-e... | CoryG89 wrote: | Umm, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I'm fairly certain that, | at least in the US, it's always been fairly easy to | obtain N95 masks, up until the pandemic. I realized I had | a box of them lying around which my ex-girlfriend had | purchased for painting. | tomp wrote: | So basically you're saying "they lied but it's OK because | it was a well-intentioned lie". | | That's what's making people lose trust in institutions. | mynameisash wrote: | > So basically you're saying "they lied but it's OK | because it was a well-intentioned lie". | | That's not at all what GP said. Try re-reading it: | | >> health authorities told people not to use masks at | first because ... Hospitals were in danger of running out | of protective equipment. | | That is in no way lying. | jldugger wrote: | I don't recall them saying 'hospitals need them more,' | but rather 'masks have no proven effect' while people | inside the CDC later admitted the concern was the first | bit. I'm pretty sure that's a lie; while maybe they can | argue about foment size effects etc. meant it technically | wasn't a lie, I think we can all agree the public heard | none of that nuance. | Bhilai wrote: | CDC is working with limited information on a novel virus. As | they are learning more they are shifting their guidance to | match the current understanding about how the virus spreads. | 0xy wrote: | CDC knowingly lied about masks, though. They knew | internally they should be used to mitigate spread, but | publicly discouraged their use. | | There was no new information. There were only lies. | mavhc wrote: | That's because they were dealing with idiots, if you | don't want to be treated like idiots, don't be idiots. | symlinkk wrote: | If you don't want to be treated like a liar, don't be a | liar. | suzzer99 wrote: | This. I just wish he'd take his enormous reach a little more | seriously when he entertains quack pseudoscience as if it's an | equally valid POV to real peer-reviewed science. | nradov wrote: | You're asking a _professional comedian_ to be more serious? | Are you actually serious or is that a joke? | tych0 wrote: | Seems like GP might be talking about Joe Rogan. | Alupis wrote: | Joe Rogan is a professional comedian, among other side | gigs like his podcast and commentating UFC fights. | [deleted] | frosted-flakes wrote: | JRE is not a comedy show though. | Bud wrote: | Being a comedian does not magically relieve a person from | their responsibility to not credulously spread around | dangerous pseudoscience during a pandemic. Plus, that's | simply not very funny. By the way, GP did not say "be more | serious", as you likely know. They said he should take his | enormous reach more seriously. | neither_color wrote: | Every influential social network already has disclaimers | with links to authoritative information about C-19 for | those who choose to inform themselves. | | "Visit the covid 19 information center to learn more" | | These are all over and post on Facebook, Youtube, | Twitter, etc whenever certain keywords trigger it. I | think this is not enough. We need to replace all right of | center entertainment with videos of Dr Fauci reminding us | to wash our hands, wear masks, get our shots and do the | right thing by staying home. Not enough people are | getting this message. | nradov wrote: | If you give a monkey a machine gun, and the monkey shoots | someone, we don't blame the monkey. | | Society has always had court jesters who poke fun at | authority. If you take health and epidemiology advice | from a _comedian_ then that 's on you. | colinmhayes wrote: | Joe Rogan is the one giving the gun is your scenario, so | you're claiming we should blame him? | aaronbrethorst wrote: | _If you take health and epidemiology advice from a | comedian then that 's on you_ | | And every person you infect. | ds206 wrote: | And every person you don't infect? | CydeWeys wrote: | That metaphor doesn't work though because Joe Rogan is a | person, not a monkey. Give a person a machine gun and if | they shoot someone you _do_ blame them. | mavhc wrote: | But what if he only did it for the lulz? | ds206 wrote: | "Being a comedian does not magically relieve a person | from their responsibility to not credulously spread | around dangerous pseudoscience during a pandemic." | | Yeah, I think it does. Has he been cancelled? Nope. Does | he stop making jokes about almost anything? Nope. Do you | listen to his podcast? Nope. | | You know how he became so popular? From talking and being | open minded. That's _all_ he does. He ain't doing it to | be an influencer yet "journalists" actually waste time | writing articles like this. I guess the haters need | something to read too? | colinmhayes wrote: | Joe's anti mask bullshit has caused people to die. Yea, I'd | like him to take that seriously. | neither_color wrote: | Are you accusing Joe Rogan of manslaughter? | dntrkv wrote: | Yeah that's Joe's classic defense. He's part of the | "Intellectual Dark Web" (lol...) and he tries to have | serious discussions and opinions on important matters. But | as soon as someone points out how stupid and misleading | some of his takes are, he falls back on the "I'm just a | comedian" excuse. | | Like someone else pointed out, Bill Burr is exactly what | you describe. He's a comedian that discusses these topics | but never gives the illusion that he is somehow qualified | and someone that should be listened to. Joe does. | coryfklein wrote: | I've listened to 4-5 Joe Rogan episodes and not once got | the impression that he was trying to be a comedian. Now I | may be an idiot, but I don't think I'm _exceptionally_ | idiotic compared to most folks who might come across his | content. | labster wrote: | Comedy is a profession. Professionals should take their job | seriously. Just because the product is fun and games | doesn't mean social responsibility ends. | nradov wrote: | Comedy is an _occupation_ , not a profession. Actual | professions have specialized training, a defined body of | knowledge, ethical standards, and a formal certification | process. For example: law, medicine, teaching, | architecture, accountancy. Comedians have no more social | responsibility than any other random person. There's no | comedian's guild that's going to kick out a comic for | being irresponsible. | hhsbz wrote: | Is this a joke? How many different things have scientists | said about every single thing that has happened in this | pandemic? | [deleted] | secondcoming wrote: | That's what Joe Rogan's show is all about. It's pretty much | him talking about the same nonsense that anyone else would | talk about when hanging out with their friends. He never | pretended to be anything else, and it's why his show is so | popular. That said, since he moved to Spotify I've hardly | seen anything other than the occasional clip on AdTube. | | If you want high-brow stuff there's Lex Fridman's channel. | atlgator wrote: | Lex Fridman does the same thing for non-robotics/AI issues. | It's wild how someone so brilliant in one area can be so | naive in another. | picklesman wrote: | I was cringing during his discussion with Rogan because | of this. | | It's a common pitfall for a certain type of nerd to think | that expertise in one area allows them to make claims in | completely unrelated fields. | | That and he didn't challenge Rogan's mostly unfounded | claims about the COVID vaccine among other things. I | understand that it must be difficult I do so as a guest, | but for someone who fancies himself "rational" it was | disappointing to say the least. | amusedcyclist wrote: | Lex Fridman is not highbrow or academic lol, hes a hype | machine just like most tech media | secondcoming wrote: | I see. What podcasts do you follow? | fbru02 wrote: | Machine Learning Street Talk | Barrin92 wrote: | Fridman is slowly going down the same route with more and | more comedians and nutritionists and ufo people on his | channel. I wish he just had sticked to interview scientists | because nowadays I probably archive 2/3 of his episodes. | AzzieElbab wrote: | I clicked that yt link and saw two friends with sense of humor | busting each others balls. ppl are reading too much into things | micromacrofoot wrote: | This is the most frustrating thing about Rogan for me... if he | were talking to people as an uniformed layman and sharing his | opinion in an effort to weed through his thoughts and become | more informed, that would be great! We need more people who are | willing to be wrong and learn from that. This is often how Bill | Burr comes across (to me, anyway). | | But Rogan's not that. He likes to hear himself talk, throws his | opinions at experts as if they're equally valid, invites | charlatans on and equates them with experts, rarely changes his | mind, and comes out of it just as dumb as he came into it. Then | people emulate him and end up in a state where they're less | able to learn, and frankly, bigger assholes. | | It's barely even a shtick, it's the same old pseudo- | intellectual machismo that has always plagued society. | techrat wrote: | The worst part for me was when Rogan started allowing people | who were spewing obvious bullshit... to have his platform | unchallenged. | | When someone tells you who they are, listen. But I'd add | this: When someone lets someone else speak for them, pay | attention to who is in that group. | [deleted] | xupybd wrote: | I have a Spotify subscription. I used to watch Joe on YouTube. I | haven't since he moved. I use Spotify at work to have something | to drown out the noise around me. I watch YouTube to relax. My | habits mean I don't even think of going to Spotify for a podcast. | djrogers wrote: | Looks like I was mistaken - there is a JRE channel but it may | be just clips | neartheplain wrote: | Not exactly. He no longer posts full episodes to YouTube, | just occasional clips: | | https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerfulJRE | xupybd wrote: | I used to sit down and watch an hour or two of a full | interview. I've not done so since I'd have to use Spotify to | watch a full interview. | fridif wrote: | Joe has publicly said that he did the deal for the money and | nothing else. More power to him. Y'all have it twisted. | blueprint wrote: | how do they have it twisted? | chucksta wrote: | They think he cares more about his reach then is dollars | Alupis wrote: | In the podcasting world, reach == dollars. With a declining | audience, his show will generate declining revenue for | Spotify, and eventually he will receive less money because | of it. | | Keep in mind, Rogan said multiple times on his show he | would never sell out because he wanted to do whatever he | wanted to do... then he sold out to a platform that | immediately cut off a large portion of his viewership. | blueprint wrote: | who does? | chimen wrote: | He left a void which is now being filled by Lex Friedman and | others. Rogan doesn't even bother placing something about the | podcast in title - he just names the guest which doesn't say | anything to me so I dropped his show long time ago. Even went | that far and send him an email regarding how frustrating it is to | just listen to show after show until you find a subject that you | like. | | What he lost with YouTube is their algorithm which kept | recommending bits and pieces aligned to what the user was already | watching. With Spotify he's just there as an author/podcaster - | nothing on the subject of what I am currently listening - he lost | the context. | | I placing his growth on YouTube and its recommendation engine | more than anything else. | the_third_wave wrote: | Yes, of course he's losing influence seeing as how he's | haemorrhaging listeners - like me - who do not want to get | Spotify only to listen to Rogan. He often has interesting guests, | he has no problems trampling all over the boundaries of | correctness (which I deem to be a good thing) but he should have | realised that there is a large overlap between the group of | people who might be interested in listening to such conversations | and the group of people who do not want to feed the Big Data | Beast by installing and running apps like Spotify. I listen to a | lot of netcasts using my own aggregator (based on Airsonic) which | can handle anything which is available through an RSS feed. | Spotify does not integrate with this system which means that | Spotify-only content simply will be ignored - there is enough | competition on the netcast market after all. | salamanderman wrote: | Good | atlgator wrote: | The only Joe Rogan episodes worth watching are the Tim Dillon | ones. If you know, you know. Otherwise, I stopped watching when | he moved to Spotify. It's just a terrible platform all-around. He | destroyed his brand for $150M. | meowface wrote: | Tim Dillon episodes are my favorites, but IMO he hasn't totally | run out of good guests since the Spotify move. The Dave | Chappelle and Quentin Tarantino ones were pretty interesting to | watch. | comodore_ wrote: | Life in the big city. | zepto wrote: | This seemed like the obvious trap he was going to fall into. | | I used to listen to him when he interviewed someone I was | interested in. I even installed Spotify so I can access his | podcast. | | In practice, because I don't use Spotify for anything else, I | have simply forgotten about him. | topspin wrote: | "This seemed like the obvious trap he was going to fall into." | | He cashed in before his expiration date. Brilliant move. | kbenson wrote: | He was given $100 million dollars up front to crash before | his expiration date. Yes, that is a brilliant move. | noveltyaccount wrote: | wow, I never heard that figure, that is staggering IMO, | I've never understood why Joe was famous, never got his | appeal. Per WSJ, "The deal with Mr. Rogan is a multiyear | licensing agreement for an amount of time that couldn't be | learned. It will likely be worth more than $100 million | based on milestones and performance metrics, according to | the person familiar." Wonder what those milestones are like | and how important they are to Joe. | https://www.wsj.com/articles/spotify-strikes-exclusive- | podca... | incadenza wrote: | I don't like Joe Rogan but his earlier episodes were my | first introduction to real long form, off the cuff | conversations that have become pretty common now. Even | relatively recently, I watched the Bernie Sanders one and | felt like I hadn't really heard Bernie Sanders just have | a conversation like that for a long period. Among others | I know, that, at least used to, be the appeal. | sschueller wrote: | He said not to long ago that he was actually hoping to be less | famous and relevant by moving to Spotify. He wanted less lime | light. However to him it backfired as more people are talking | about him although less are probably actually listening. | Bellamy wrote: | Would you fell into a trap like this for 100.000.000$? | zepto wrote: | Apparently he made $30M in the year before the deal. | | If the deal lasts for more than 2 years, then he has made a | serious error. | selfhoster11 wrote: | You can retire with a high standard of living for the rest | of your life with that amount as a lump sum. It's not clear | to me that the decision was wrong. | Proven wrote: | There's no question that can't be solved with elementary | school math, right? | | Did he personally tell you that entering 2025 with a net | worth of $175 rather than $195 million would present a | serious problem for him? Does he not care more about other | things in life? | tomjakubowski wrote: | Is Spotify the only source of revenue from his podcast? I | don't listen to JRE, but this thread suggests he's still | running third-party ads on the show. Presumably then he's | still getting some portion of that $30M/year on top of what | Spotify pays him. | | > Spotify doesn't play or include ads that interrupt the | listening experience of Premium subscribers. However, some | podcast creators may include third-party advertising, host- | read endorsements, or sponsorship messages in their | episodes. | | https://community.spotify.com/t5/Other-Podcasts-Partners- | etc... | ganoushoreilly wrote: | Not only does he run the ads (though I suspect spotify | reaps those benefits), they're randomly inserting them in | the podcast now and it's annoying. Sometimes it's mid | sentence. | | Annoying to both pay for spotify and get hammered with | ads. Granted I pay for the music, but it's still annoying | as all. | christoph wrote: | When this happened to me I assumed Spotify had become | logged out of my account somehow. Nope, they're injecting | adverts randomly into paying customers podcasts. I | cancelled Spotify that moment. I never really agreed with | their attempted land grab on podcasts, this, however, I | felt had really crossed a line. There are plenty of other | podcasts I listen to, some without ads, supported only by | Patreon, etc. so the money I spent on Spotify will get | redistributed to them. | nebula8804 wrote: | Its even worse, up until a few weeks ago, you could rip | his podcasts using youtube-dl. I am paying for a | subscription to support him but ripping his podcasts and | throwing away their garbage app in favor of Jellyfin. Now | they have begun encrypting his podcasts with Widevine. :/ | | Since I still have to listen to ads, i'm thinking of just | dropping the subscription and hoping there becomes a | method to break this Widevine trash. I encounter a bug | with their app on a daily basis and I am tired of it. | From what I gather, there are different levels of | Widevine encryption that limit video quality but the | lower levels are crackable. I hope someone smarter than | me tries the crack on the JRE podcast. | aidenn0 wrote: | That assumes that his podcast had at least 3 years of legs, | which is not at all clear to me. | TedShiller wrote: | I like Joe Rogan but yeah I didn't follow him to Spotify. Can't | wait for him to come back. | throwawaysea wrote: | Spotify and Rogan is a key example of how centralization into | walled gardens is detrimental. I enjoyed easy, uncensored access | to Joe Rogan's interviews and clips from them previously. But | without that ease of access, I basically forgot about him. This | is despite me being a paying customer of Spotify. | | Spotify has also demonstrated that they cannot be trusted, | neutral stewards of information ecosystems like podcasts. They've | censored/deleted lots of Joe Rogan's interviews, and their left- | biased progressive employees have repeatedly protested against | Rogan and asked for him to be booted off the platform. There is | absolutely no way I will patronize podcasts on Spotify since I | don't want to hand such a group the keys to the castle. | tejohnso wrote: | I find myself listening to Lex much more, and Joe much less. | Overall, I'm very glad that the format exists, and we're able to | hear from experts / academics who otherwise wouldn't have a | platform to really get into the details of their work. | bob229 wrote: | Who cares | trimbo wrote: | Maybe it's because an election concluded and all news-type media | has dropped off considerably. | | https://thehill.com/homenews/media/551210-tv-news-ratings-on... | elliekelly wrote: | Joe Rogan is not "news-type" media by any stretch of the | imagination. | truthwhisperer wrote: | written by a journalist who does not understand statistics. He is | still gaining twitter followers but not on the same rate. | | so his reach grows, but not as fast as it used to be. | | probably the same journalist who write about climate change | betwixthewires wrote: | Yeah I know I stopped listening since the show went exclusive. I | didn't listen to every single episode he did, but I did listen | pretty regularly. I have not seen a single one since and don't | really care to. | | I won't get an account with a company just to hear what you have | to say. If you require that, as far as I'm concerned your | influence just waned a little. I'm steadfast and unflinching in | this, it is a firm rule I have. | dec0dedab0de wrote: | It's obvious that ratings are down, but it's still enough to make | money. Here are Some recent changes I can think of that cause | lower ratings, all but one are related to Spotify. | | Spotify is awful to use. | | Not live anymore. | | Haven't done the fight companion since the Brian Callen | allegations. | | Too afraid to be cancelled. | | So many more podcasts now. Especially Tim Dillon and Flagrant2. | goodfight wrote: | He wanted less attention, you can't be king of the hill forever | chromejs10 wrote: | Good | anfogoat wrote: | I enjoyed listening to Joe's podcast quite a bit, and had been | since around the hundredth episode, but to me podcasts always | equaled audio files indexed in an RSS feed. So as far as I'm | concerned Spotify does not have podcasts, and that they tout | otherwise is enough for me to avoid them out of spite, Joe or no | Joe. | | Haven't heard Joe's voice in my ear since mid 2020. | bamboozled wrote: | After his "emergency" podcast on Ivermectin, I'd day this is | likely net positive thing for society. | | Not a personal attack on the guy, I just think maybe all the | influence is going to his head a bit. | shoulderfake wrote: | Echochamber effect here I presume. Joe Rogan is doing just fine | on Spotify. He can choose not to extend at the end of his | contract, go back to YouTube and continue just where he left off. | jjulius wrote: | >Joe Rogan is doing just fine on Spotify. | | This article produced data to back up their assertion, I would | be curious to see the data you're looking at that helps you | make yours. | Dma54rhs wrote: | That implies constant growth is the only measurable metric. | Probably it is for Spotify, maybe for Rogan, but it doesn't | have to be. | jjulius wrote: | No, it asks for any specific example of how one might | suggest he is doing "just fine". I would just like to see | _why_ someone thinks this article is incorrect, not simply | that they think so. I would be fine with someone suggesting | an alternative to constant growth as an example. | scrumbledober wrote: | i think making $100 million could definitely be | considered on the high side of doing "just fine" | Darmody wrote: | I used to see his clips on recommended and after watching some of | them I would look for the whole podcast if it was interesting. | | Now I don't even read the name Joe Rogan if I'm not watching UFC. | | It's sad because I really enjoyed some of his content. | CoryG89 wrote: | Anecdotally, for me I didn't watch it religiously, but I would | watch anytime there was a guest that I liked or found | interesting. I haven't watched a single show since he moved to | Spotify. | wnevets wrote: | At some point most of his listeners will realize just how | terrible he is. MMA is supposed to be his bread and butter but | his takes are absolutely trash. Every fighter is a killer, every | champion is the GOAT, etc. | elzbardico wrote: | Spotify is no longer the only kid in town. First I had moved to | tidal because of supposedly better audio. Then one day I figured | out that I already pay for prime and get prime music with it, | already pay Apple's one iCloud bundle and get Apple Music with | it, so tidal also went to the cancellation hole with Spotify. Not | going to have an Spotify account just to listen to Joe Rogan. | anm89 wrote: | Im sure the money was more than enough for him to feel | compensated | jazzyjackson wrote: | Yeah it's not like Joe's goal in life was to influence people. | Dude wants to make a living talking to people, which he's | achieved 100fold | anm89 wrote: | I agree. I don't think influence isn't important to him but I | don't think he is in it for world domination. | Bellamy wrote: | I'm paying Spotify Premium and still have to listen ads during | the show. | | Spotify also sends video even though I just need the audio. It's | a waste of valuable bandwidth and CPU. | | If there would an alternative I would take it. | | Anyway I have definitely listened JRE way less lately... | jjulius wrote: | >I'm paying Spotify Premium and still have to listen ads during | the show. | | I have Spotify and don't listen to podcasts much at all. When I | have, it hasn't been on Spotify and I've always been able to | skip through the recording to get past the ad (either with a | "skip fwd 15 secs" button or by grabbing the slider and moving | it manually). Does Spotify not offer that capability? | jazzyjackson wrote: | They've made it simple to skip ads because each ad pops up as | a track that you can scrobble to the end of. I assume they're | satisfied with this because my dragging my finger across the | name of the advertiser is probably a better signal of | impression than hoping I was actually present during the ad | roll. | | But Apple podcasts "skip 15sec" is still easier, I can do it | without looking while driving. | neartheplain wrote: | >each ad pops up as a track that you can scrobble to the | end of | | The first time this happened to me (while loading up a Joe | Rogan podcast), I legitimately thought Spotify was | glitching out. There's no visual indication in the app that | it's a temporary ad, or of how many ads you have to listen | to before the episode starts. I made it to the beginning of | the third ad track before giving up. | jazzyjackson wrote: | I did experience an infinite ad loop once and force | closed the app and opened it again. Spotify is buggy AF. | jjice wrote: | There's a setting to disable video podcasts and only get the | audio. I don't want to watch a podcast via Spotify, and I hate | that it's hidden away in settings, but it is there. | a9h74j wrote: | Not a single-video-file like solution, but you might think e.g. | Youtube, Spotify etc could sync a separate audio file and stop | the video streaming when a tab is hidden. Such a predictable | waste of bandwidth, as you observe, that it might even merit | browser support. | Andys wrote: | YouTube premium does this | Andys wrote: | YouTube premium does this. | willcipriano wrote: | The guys who rip it to YouTube cut out the commercials, and | NewPipe delivers the audio feed ad free. I'm not a big Rogan | guy but even if I paid for Spotify I'd probably watch it that | way. | nebula8804 wrote: | Is there some reliable source of his podcasts on Youtube? | Like a hidden channel or something that won't be taken down | by copyright requests every 5 seconds? | willcipriano wrote: | A search for "Joe Rogan Full Podcast" (Full is a magic word | on YouTube for this sort of thing, "Full Movie" "Full | Episode" etc) typically works for me, but you may have to | warm up the recommendation algorithm so it recommends | similar channels to what you have watched before (ie. fly | by night channels hosting ripped podcasts). | secondcoming wrote: | I'm not sure the article's method of measuring influence is | valid. | | - It assumes Twitter use is constant and its not losing users | (I've deactivated my account, even though I hardly used it). | | - It assumes Twitter hasn't improved bot detection since before | | - It assumes that the issue is with Rogan rather than the guest | (maybe it could be argued that Rogan is getting 'uninteresting' | guests because of a waning influence) | chadlavi wrote: | Good. | comodore_ wrote: | these seem like very flawed metrics to say the least. but then | for twitter journos, twitter is everything. | optimalsolver wrote: | Just like Howard Stern moving to satellite radio or whatever it | was. | | Out of sight, out of mind. | | This is also the dilemma writers face when putting their content | behind a paywall. The conversation just moves on without you. | jollybean wrote: | All regular media consumption is down, ratings for all news is | down, I think we're all suffering from social media consumption | fatigue, and there's is also an explosion of podcasts to listen | to now. | | The Economist has daily 45 minutes, Conan O'Brien is on audio | only etc.. | | And he might actually have a broader audience than before, does | it matter that much that guests 'new follower' metrics are down? | | I think there's a broader context to consider here. | falcrist wrote: | > All regular media consumption is down, ratings for all news | is down, I think we're all suffering from social media | consumption fatigue | | A quick google search seems to contradict this. Can you point | me towards a source that backs these claims? | beebmam wrote: | The more he embraces conspiracy theories, the less I find him | persuasive. At this point, with his embrace of anti-vaccination | ideas and being completely mostly to medical science and the | scientific community out of contrarianism, I find him more | annoying than interesting. | slickrick216 wrote: | Joe Rogan confined to his bath of money doesn't care in the | slightest. | andrewzah wrote: | I think anyone would take that deal for $100 million. Joe's the | real winner while people argue in the comments about this or that | about his podcast. Clearly, having controversial guests on is | fantastic for his podcast's influence. | | I don't think Spotify is good for podcasts in general. I much | prefer to consume podcasts with my own clients and workflows. | Even youtube is better since it actually works well unlike the | spotify app in my experience. | ldiracdelta wrote: | Exactly. I used to enjoy Joe Rogan, but I have my podcast | system and I'm unwilling to change. I'm absolutely not going to | change from a working federated system via RSS/atom xml to a | centralized system where the employees throw a hissy fit about | crime-think. I'm sure Spotify converted many customers and at | $100 million, Joe Rogan won regardless. | orange_puff wrote: | Maybe all good things simply need to come to an end. I feel like | he basically has boomer politics now and the same predictable | opinion over and over can get old. My brother said something that | I think is true; Joe seems like the kind of guy who believes | whatever the last person he spoke to said, so after moving to | Austin he's become more conservative. | rattlesnakedave wrote: | >all good things simply need to come to an end I think this is | the crux of it. After >1600 episodes, how much is there left to | say? | kevwil wrote: | Good. | | Sorry, Joe, but that was a bad move. Let me know when you start | podcasting again. | | The turf war over the commercialization of podcasting reminds me | of the Internet - designed to be free and open, destined to be | walled off from free use and exploited to death. | markus_zhang wrote: | The ones with Carmack and an ex-pilot (regarding UFO) were | interesting. Other than that I really didn't have any knowledge | of. It's more of the people he interviewed then his channel. | yellow_lead wrote: | It's even hard to listen to these. I have heard enough of | Rogan's "Wow!" and "Really?" to last a lifetime. | bostonsre wrote: | Lex did one [1] with the same pilot that saw the ufo | (commander fravor). I went from "no friggin way do they | exist" to "shit... it actually sounds plausible". | | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB8zcAttP1E | falcrist wrote: | I had no idea John Carmack had gone on the podcast. | mwidell wrote: | John Carmack and James Hetfield are a couple of very | interesting guests he had. | surajs wrote: | Joe has had one hell of a run, I don't think he minds losing | influence | billylindeman wrote: | Pretty much haven't listened at all since his move to spotify. I | don't blame him for selling out at all, but spotify is garbage | for podcasts. If he went back to youtube I'd probably watch again | Goety wrote: | He needs more mainstream influence. Spotify does not promote | itself well. | rob_c wrote: | So the verge finds something preferentially biased against some | right wing creator therefore something obviously unbiased... | | It's reminding me of the gay frogs. Some truth, with an annoying | presentation that distracts from the point. | soheil wrote: | I think 2nd guest appearances are not going to see as big of a | spike in followers than the 1st in general since it's likely that | the same audience who were going to follow the guest have already | done so, so not sure how much of this decrease can be attributed | to a platform change. | fedreserved wrote: | Make sure to circle back for the Tom ONeil episode. He spent 20 | years writing a book about Charles Manskm, and unearthed several | earth shattering revelations about the case.1. cia was most | likely involved in allowing Charles Manson who was on probation | throughout the entire period get away with multiple probation | violations after spending half his life in prison. As a criminal | defense attorney with the evidence he laid oitz it's obviois | Manson had some sort of guardian angel Also lead prosecutor led | key witnesses to commit perjury. The motive for the Tate murder | the prosecutor put on was to send a message to the record | producer who used to own the house. Key witnesses told him that | the record producer was seem several times after the murders | happened, and at trial the testimony was different. | SXX wrote: | When he moved to Spotify I suppose I'll get his podcasts from | torrents, but then I end up finding far more interesting podcasts | to replace him. After all if any of his episodes are interesting | I can just listen them two years later. | captaindiego wrote: | Any recommendations you can offer for interesting podcasts? | SXX wrote: | As already mentioned there is Lex Fridman. Some people | including me dislike the way he speaks, but listening on x2+ | speed fixes that. I also enjoyed The Tim Ferris Show and he | generally have more guests who are not related to tech. | | Though I mostly went deeper into podcasts related to software | engineering and since most of them include a lot of off-topic | some are quite fun: Soft Skills Engineering, The Bike Shed, | Indie Hackers Podcast, Talk Python to Me, Unnamed RE Podcast. | | So there is always more interesting podcasts than time I have | for listening. Might be you can't replace Rogan with one | show, but you can always diversify. | Zelphyr wrote: | I would like to mention Armchair Expert but they cashed in at | the Bank of Spotify as well. Such a shame because it's a | really enjoyable podcast. | | That said; _Jocko Podcast_ is good, though the subject matter | can be very heavy at times. | | _Lex Fridman_ podcast is good. Some people don 't like his | somewhat monotoned voice but he has interesting guests. | | _Literally! With Rob Lowe_ is fun. | RobLach wrote: | Sure you can blame spotify but generally personality based | entertainment goes in and out of vogue quite quickly. | pleb_nz wrote: | 8m not sure how his podcasts were distributed previously, but I | would have thought a more multiplatform approach would work | better long term. A lot of people don't have Spotify, I'm one of | those, for the same price as Spotify I can get YouTube premium | for me and the extended family, kill all ads, allow downloads and | access to a decent music streaming catalog. Last time I checked | the prices were not to dissimilar. | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: | It did. Joe even said he didn't care about itunes ratings back | in the day. He just wanted people to listen to it in anyway | they liked. | laurent92 wrote: | I think he was promised $100m for the Spotify exclusivity. No | multiplatform works better than $100m ;) | criddell wrote: | It has also been argued Joe sold out at way too low of a | price. | | https://www.supercast.com/blog/joe-rogan-got-ripped-off | meowface wrote: | Apparently it was a bigger number than that, though the exact | number isn't known. | ProAm wrote: | I think it was more than 100MM, he was making ~30MM per year | on his own, and he signed a 3 year deal with Spotify. Im not | sure why you'd sell for the exact amount you'd make if you | just kept doing what you are doing with the exception of | having to handle all advertising yourself and possible | delisting/banning from YouTube. | laurent92 wrote: | So he was a unicorn? A startup valued at a billion dollars | was supposed to be so rare that it's a unicorn, and now | people are doing that with a microphone in a cave ;) (or | little more, but technically he's one voice). | tailspin2019 wrote: | Joe Rogan moving to Spotify is like Twitter moving to requiring | login. | | The increased friction has resulted in stopping me from consuming | two things that I should have been cutting down on anyway. | [deleted] | AzzieElbab wrote: | It is hard to make an argument against YT having the highest | reach among vloging platforms. However, repeated guests not | gaining as many Twitter followers as they did after first visit | might be an indication of diminishing returns | jazzyjackson wrote: | Could also be a commensurate drop in interest in Twitter | newbamboo wrote: | I thought this at first, but now think the opposite is true. His | viewpoints were more diluted previously. A smaller base is of | regular listeners paradoxically makes his messages stronger. | nyx-aiur wrote: | Does it? | bitwize wrote: | Inasmuch as his message doesn't offend Spotify, their key | strategic partners, or their financial service providers -- | sure, I'll buy that. | newbamboo wrote: | Censorship is worse on YouTube. Think of how many affiliates | YouTube/google/nbc has. I'd say more than Spotify. There's a | reason AM radio has more "extreme" content than FM radio. A | wider audience means more people to appease; have to cater to | the common denominator. | InitialLastName wrote: | > There's a reason AM radio has more "extreme" content than | FM radio. A wider audience means more people to appease; | have to cater to the common denominator. | | What? AM stations tend to have larger ranges (FM is limited | by line-of-sight). There tends to be more talk on AM | because the audio quality is lower (and more susceptible to | interference); I would assume that talk radio (where | opinions are actually being discussed) would naturally have | more "extreme" content than music, where the opinions are | diluted by the presence of other content. | snowwrestler wrote: | Does Joe Rogan have "messages"? I thought his whole thing was | to be a neutral place for interesting conversations. | | If he's trying to deliver specific messages now, that would | certainly affect who wants to listen to him. | tehalex wrote: | I have no interested in listening and I've thought about | canceling spotify for how hard they push the podcast with no way | to hide it. | mastrsushi wrote: | "Mickey Mouse Data Analytics: The article" ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-08-25 23:00 UTC)