[HN Gopher] The Evolution of Smalltalk from Smalltalk-72 to Sque...
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The Evolution of Smalltalk from Smalltalk-72 to Squeak [video]
Author : gjvc
Score : 101 points
Date : 2021-08-27 19:45 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.pldi21.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.pldi21.org)
| msie wrote:
| I wanted to check out Squeak so I went to the squeak.org website
| and ran into so many broken links on the wiki.
| zelphirkalt wrote:
| Not sure about any other implications, but you could check out
| Pharo, which is much more active than Squeak development.
| bastardoperator wrote:
| I noticed the same thing too, I just ended up copying the link
| and they work just fine.
| hencq wrote:
| I was surprised to see that Smalltalk-72 was actually a much
| different language. In some ways it reminded me of Lisp macros
| and a bit of stack languages like Forth.
|
| This document [0] and especially Appendix II in this pdf [1]
| explain it well. Essentially an object just gets the unparsed
| message sent to it for it to do what it wants. So the code for an
| object basically parses the raw symbols to figure out what
| message to respond to.
|
| [0] http://worrydream.com/EarlyHistoryOfSmalltalk
|
| [1]
| https://raw.githubusercontent.com/worrydream/EarlyHistoryOfS...
| diskzero wrote:
| The most active Smalltalk inspired community seems to be Pharo.
| https://pharo.org
|
| I have avoided calling Pharo "Smalltalk" as it has evolved from
| the original fork of Squeak and the project is evolving and
| modifying from its Smalltalk origins.
|
| My personal favorite language that has evolved from Smalltalk is
| Newspeak. https://newspeaklanguage.org
|
| The current version runs on top of WASM and can be used in a web
| browser. Gilad Bracha is going some exciting and interesting
| things with this language.
| virtualwhys wrote:
| > Gilad Bracha is going some exciting and interesting things
| with this language.
|
| Hopefully not in the same way that Dart turned out to be so
| "exciting and interesting" :)
| [deleted]
| bradrn wrote:
| What's wrong with Dart? (Don't know anything about the
| language, just curious.)
| agumonkey wrote:
| so far ~socially Dart has failed but the language is actually
| way more interesting than I thought it would ...
| andrea81 wrote:
| Just curious why it failed...
| Qem wrote:
| I played a bit with Newspeak, in their legacy Squeak-based IDE,
| but after they migrated to the new webapp IDE, I was kinda
| lost, in this new environment. I didn't find much documentation
| about the new IDE. Any recommendations?
| diskzero wrote:
| The forum will get a response from Gilad or others:
| https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/newspeaklanguage
|
| A simple example of Newspeak and literate programming:
| https://newspeaklanguage.org/samples/Literate/Literate.html
|
| The IDE works in a similar way to the Squeak-based IDE, but
| there is no image and being hosted in a browser has other
| limitations. This isn't a language you are going to use to
| make a quick and dirty CRUD app (although I have) but it is
| an interesting example of how Smalltalk concepts can be used
| in a web-based world.
| fiddlerwoaroof wrote:
| Is there a sample that demonstrates Gilad's ideas about
| parameterized modules?
| diskzero wrote:
| I can only point you to the doc, which you may have
| already seen: https://www.bracha.org/newspeak-modules.pdf
|
| It is worth asking on the forum to see if there is some
| exisiting code to show this in practice.
| agumonkey wrote:
| the french mooc platform FUN made a Pharo MOOC and it was
| beyond great
|
| the smalltalk universe is pretty special, the live graphical
| environment is thrilling and their idioms/culture is also very
| interesting
| isr wrote:
| IMHO, the claim that pharo is not smalltalk is, to put it
| bluntly, nonsense.
|
| Yes, I understand that Pharo may well eventually change the
| some semantics of the underlying language, or at least reserves
| the right to do so. Fine, call it "not smalltalk" when that
| happens (if ever).
|
| Until then, call pharo what it is. An interesting, in some ways
| innovative, FORK OF SQUEAK SMALLTALK.
|
| Its a squeak fork, in the same way that cuis smalltalk is a
| squeak fork. Both pharo and cuis have evolved in different
| directions, as per their original directives.
|
| And you know what? Thats fine. Great, in fact. Each can (and
| does) learn from the other.
|
| And they're both STILL smalltalk. And thats also fine!
| fiddlerwoaroof wrote:
| I think of Pharo as a bit like Racket: it intentionally is
| distanced a bit from the parent language to avoid being
| limited to the design of that language. For example: the word
| "Smalltalk" isn't anywhere on the homepage of the project.
| zetalyrae wrote:
| Has there been any new work on typed Smalltalk, maybe along the
| lines of Strongtalk[0]?
|
| [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strongtalk
| mastrsushi wrote:
| Smallcock-69
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(page generated 2021-08-27 23:00 UTC)