[HN Gopher] The Elements of Typographic Style Applied to the Web
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       The Elements of Typographic Style Applied to the Web
        
       Author : omarfarooq
       Score  : 62 points
       Date   : 2021-09-03 09:40 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (webtypography.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (webtypography.net)
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | I do a lot of work with print lately and manual kerning has been
       | a revelation to me.
       | 
       | I use to go through hundreds of typefaces like going through
       | hundreds of photos on Tinder and think 'they all suck' but then I
       | started adjusting the letter spacing and now I 'love the one I'm
       | with'.
       | 
       | I recently developed an unofficial corporate identity for my
       | workplace (improving signage) that uses serif fonts. All the
       | other signs use sans-serif which is half because it fits the
       | modernist building and half because people don't know how to do
       | the manual kerning it takes to make serif fonts pop.
       | 
       | That said I have felt no need to kern for the web and have no
       | desire since it will certainly go bad if the user isn't seeing
       | the typeface I want them to see.
        
       | wffurr wrote:
       | I didn't get very far in this because the body type is set too
       | small to read on a smartphone screen.
        
         | jkepler wrote:
         | On my smartphone, a simple doubletap on the body text and it
         | zooms in to the text, full-width on the screen, and is thus
         | readable and beautifully typeset.
        
         | Y-bar wrote:
         | This.
         | 
         | And _nothing_ looks tappable/clickable either. A prime example
         | why the web is an interactive medium, different from print.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | smlacy wrote:
         | Couldn't figure out how to navigate past the title page on my
         | phone, so I gave up.
        
       | cblconfederate wrote:
       | What does typography have to do with the web? There seems to be
       | nothing here of value that is based on evidence about the
       | readability of text. Especially in today's era where the medium
       | is not fixed, it makes zero sense to treat the web as a PDF.
        
         | arglebarglegar wrote:
         | if you read any of this you'd realize that's not what's being
         | suggested... it's about making informed decisions about how you
         | style text with css
         | 
         | typography is generally involved with any text, many of these
         | are standards that have existed for hundreds of years and still
         | exist on computers
        
         | sonofhans wrote:
         | Typography has everything to do with the web. Web design is 90%
         | typography (cite below). Typography is not about perfectly or
         | reverently setting text in immutable ways (viz your "PDF"
         | comment). Typography is about encouraging and aiding
         | readability, and allowing a piece of writing to have a
         | subtextual voice. See, for example, the posts about Arctic
         | Adventure (https://www.arctic81.com/). The typography on that
         | site is harder to read than I'd like, but does absolutely put
         | you in the time and place that the author wants.
         | 
         | Jeffrey Zeldman said (in 2015):
         | 
         | "Mobile is today's first screen. So design responsively,
         | focusing on content and structure first. Websites and apps
         | alike should remove distractions and let people interact as
         | directly as possible with content. 90 percent of design is
         | typography. And the other 90 percent is whitespace."
         | 
         | (Zeldman knows his shit. He was one of the most influential
         | designers and standards-setters for the early web, e.g.,
         | founder of the Web Standards Project, which was instrumental in
         | helping us escape the minefield of browser-specific
         | customizations in the late 90s).
         | 
         | Most of the principles of good typography apply anywhere that
         | type can be used, from books to billboards to websites to
         | mobile games. Typography as a discipline is thousands of years
         | old, and based in the fundamentals of human perception. We know
         | how humans read. Typography is the practically application of
         | that knowledge.
         | 
         | There was a brief period where coolness and aesthetic appeal on
         | the web trumped good typography principles (e.g., again, the
         | Arctic Adventure site). Most of that has settled down, though,
         | and most sites have reverted to simple and common standards.
        
         | SavantIdiot wrote:
         | I think it that the entire web (excluding videos) is nothing
         | but typography. Typography is not just about fancy flourishes
         | and font serifs, it is about readability and how information is
         | organized and presented visually. Granted, it does have a
         | stylistic element (which is like adding chance to a board
         | game), in that nothing is "perfect" because of culture and
         | trends, but there are rules developed over the past four
         | centuries that help make the medium more accessible.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | indymike wrote:
       | Choice of colors makes it very difficult to read, even on a 4k
       | display.
        
         | SavantIdiot wrote:
         | Really? I don't like the subtle skeuomorph of trying to make it
         | look like a book, but the colors seem benign. What problem are
         | you seeing?
        
       | hyperstar wrote:
       | Are there any web sites that have beautiful typography?
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | I cringe a bit when I hear "beautiful typography". Usually,
         | this means style over substance. It is way easier to shave yaks
         | about the way something looks (and feel productive doing it),
         | than it is being concerned over the last 10% that takes content
         | from good enough to great.
        
           | theshadowknows wrote:
           | I cringe whenever people describe their app as "beautiful."
           | For the same reason.
        
         | wffurr wrote:
         | https://practicaltypography.com/ is pretty great.
        
         | mrob wrote:
         | https://bestmotherfucking.website/
        
           | qart wrote:
           | Without a doubt. Fast, clean, adaptable. What's not to like?
        
             | Semaphor wrote:
             | #fff on #000. I find the site pretty exhausting to read.
             | Like most "motherfucking websites", a bad example for a
             | good site.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | Your monitor / browser is misconfigured.
               | 
               | On some machines, maximum contrast is exhausting; on
               | others, reduced contrast is near-invisible. The
               | "exhausting" machines can be configured to reduce
               | contrast, but the "invisible" machines cannot trivially
               | be configured to increase contrast.
        
         | deltron3030 wrote:
         | The Marvin Visions site is cool:
         | https://www.readvisions.com/marvin
        
       | renarl wrote:
       | Are there any markdown themes that follow these guidelines?
        
       | uxcolumbo wrote:
       | The web is not print and that site looks unusable to me (it might
       | be old).
       | 
       | It kinda looks broken on a big screen and it took me a while to
       | figure out what to do next. Call to actions were not clear.
       | 
       | Keep things simple, the web is fluid and make sure your text is
       | legible and ensure good contrast. Also think about load
       | performance and ideally stick to fonts that are generally already
       | installed on devices by default.
       | 
       | Or follow this handy guide:
       | 
       | https://betterwebtype.com/articles/2021/06/07/all-you-need-i...
       | 
       | https://betterwebtype.com/ (free web typography course)
        
       | lazyjeff wrote:
       | I teach user interface design, with a bit about typography but
       | I'm not a typographer myself. But I feel like a lot of the advice
       | there is taken from graphic design (based on the original EoTS
       | book), and not that practical for web designers where text is
       | slightly more fluid.
       | 
       | Namely, much of the book is about making choices that depend on
       | the exact placement of individual characters on the screen. Like
       | the entire section about hyphenation. This doesn't make sense if
       | the glyphs show up slightly different on different screens. Like
       | Mac/PC/Android might render the same glyph for a font just a
       | pixel different (maybe even just due to the way it rounds a
       | number), bumping a glyph on to the next line. It's really hard to
       | control the exact placement of each glyph, and not worth fretting
       | about for the web. So I think the principles in the book that are
       | focused on exact placement of individual glyphs (characters) is
       | incompatible with the more general principles of responsive
       | layouts or using a native font stack.
       | 
       | Some of the advice is automatically taken care of by defaults on
       | the browser/OS, like kerning or letterspacing are often not that
       | relevant to the web designer. It might be relevant to the people
       | working on rendering at the browser level. And the other advice
       | is stylistic and depends on the content (like indentation and
       | casing).
       | 
       | I think the most practical advice from this book is fairly
       | straightforward: choose some appropriate sizings for various
       | headers and body text, check that you have about 70 characters
       | per line, and choose a comfortable line-height for the body text.
        
         | gozzoo wrote:
         | Can you recomend some good books or online courses teaching UI
         | and graphical design?
        
           | renarl wrote:
           | Refactoring UI book has been helpful to me as a dev who wants
           | to get something decent looking on the screen.
           | 
           | https://www.refactoringui.com/book
        
             | tl wrote:
             | I like Adam Withan's free components (Tailwind), but his
             | paid content is problematic. From the your link the left
             | example is both clearer and more compact then the right
             | version that is a supposed "improvement".
        
       | SavantIdiot wrote:
       | "HTML and CSS 2 do not have any provision for automatic
       | hyphenation and current Web browsers support, even for manual
       | hyphenation, is poor.
       | 
       | So don't justify text on the web."
       | 
       | I've been waiting for this to be fixed since 1997. I suspect it
       | is a very difficult problem to get right. My Kindle accidentally
       | hyphenates things like "Walde-r" and "Lannister-s" (yes, I'm
       | reading GoT again).
        
         | kuished wrote:
         | I think it's already possible to get some of the way there on
         | the web today (having fine-grained control and avoiding
         | Walde-r's). Check out Hypher
         | (https://github.com/bramstein/hypher). If you're using Gatsby
         | and Markdown, I wrote a small plugin to be able to use it
         | there:
         | 
         | https://www.gatsbyjs.com/plugins/gatsby-remark-hypher/
         | 
         | and
         | 
         | https://github.com/siawyoung/remark-hypher
         | 
         | (An example of how it looks like: https://siawyoung.com)
        
         | john-doe wrote:
         | Incidentally, by the same author, the state of hyphenation on
         | the web: http://clagnut.com/blog/2395
         | 
         | It's from 2019, but nothing much has changed since. My biggest
         | gripe is that browsers should prevent hyphenation when a word
         | starts with an uppercase letter, which doesn't seem too hard?
         | 
         | The only bulletproof (but more complicated) solution is to
         | process text beforehand and insert soft hyphens (­) where
         | appropriate.
        
         | red_trumpet wrote:
         | There is the `hyphens` CSS property [1]. Apparently, all big
         | browsers implement it at least for english. It's a pity though,
         | that this is not possible for other languages (at least for
         | Chrome). It should be as simple as provide a basic dictionary
         | with hyphenation data...
         | 
         | [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/hyphens
        
           | Semaphor wrote:
           | Cool, it seems that Firefox and Safari support quite some
           | languages on both Desktop and Mobile, but Chrome is English
           | only :/
        
       | KaiserPro wrote:
       | I am surprised that they chose a font that's designed by used on
       | cheap shitty paper. The whole point of the web is that you didnt
       | need to use a font thats designed to overcome crap ink and crap
       | paper.
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-04 23:00 UTC)