[HN Gopher] Show HN: Web browser to help programmers think clearly
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Show HN: Web browser to help programmers think clearly
Author : hyferg
Score : 604 points
Date : 2021-09-07 15:41 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (bonsaibrowser.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (bonsaibrowser.com)
| daxuak wrote:
| Kind of a vague question: what's been the experience with the
| Bosai browser for you, or the people you have surveyed, in terms
| of researching stuff?
|
| Love the concept and from the demo it looks well executed,
| defintely will try when I hop on a mac.
| nomoreplease wrote:
| These feature look amazing. Ah I clicked, I didn't expect it to
| be compelling but I'm intrigued enough to try it out. Great work!
| slightwinder wrote:
| This looks like one of the many grouping-addons that firefox has,
| just a better look. It doesn't seem to say anything at all about
| the actual features besides those three animations? Or is my
| adblocker just removing something important?
|
| Anyway, as someone who has used all kind of flavors of grouping
| in firefox (and still is using it with tree style tabs now), I
| can say that grouping is nice, but on the long run not nice
| enough. It helps to organize your mess, but the lack of
| effortless integration into something outside your browser is a
| real problem for serious work.
|
| Maybe MacOS can offer some ways there, I remember in the past
| they had good options via applescript.
| lockyc wrote:
| This is awesome, good work! This is exactly what i was hoping to
| be able to use Dash from kapeli for.
| pieix wrote:
| This is fantastic. Seconding the comment that this isn't only for
| developers--optimizing all user experiences for ease of use has
| become an antipattern and what's needed is UX that optimizes for
| preserving the user's brainspace.
| tristor wrote:
| This is incredible. It takes the best parts about
| Spotlight/Alfred on MacOS and applies it in-context to the web.
| Great job!
| boogies wrote:
| Lynx1 and NetSurf both display history in a tree, good to see
| browsers with "modern" engines catching up! (I think Firefox's
| Tree Style Tab extension was the closest alternative available
| before this)
|
| 1requires configuration (under "Special Files and Screens", set
| "Visited Pages" to "As Visit Tree")
| BiteCode_dev wrote:
| I'm not sure I see the point. Firefox can do that with tab groups
| (E.G: https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/panorama-tab-
| gro...), and your OS can put it in the foreground with the
| shortcut you like.
|
| Why an entirely new browser?
|
| If you want something more polish, a firefox add on or some OS
| service would be less work and benefit from the ecosystem.
|
| Or is it a case of FTP vs Dropbox and I'm nerding out?
| pbronez wrote:
| The spatial organization thing looks pretty novel to me.
| BiteCode_dev wrote:
| Tab groups do that, unless I'm missing something. Probably
| not as good, but again, why do an entire browser?
| DavideNL wrote:
| Because, looking at the demo, it can do a lot more than
| what you can achieve with tab groups...
| sundarurfriend wrote:
| Could you mention what? As they said, the shortcut to
| bring to front is OS configuration and spatial
| organization is in tab groups addons (though without
| arbitrary spatial locations), and the fuzzy find seems
| similar to what Vimium provides. I'm open to the idea
| that there's value in grouping such features together -
| but unless I'm missing some other feature, this seems
| much better implemented (and has a better chance to be
| long term supported) as a Firefox profile with those
| addons installed and perhaps a tiny program to capture
| the shortcut and execute that Firefox profile.
| BiteCode_dev wrote:
| Yes, but cound't you make an add-on that does those
| additional things? Or a service? Or both?
| andridk wrote:
| Cool concept! Does it come in OS?
| phrz wrote:
| Can you change your search engine? I don't use Google.
| [deleted]
| tmd83 wrote:
| What about resource usage? Are the tabs always loaded or just
| reference and loaded only when clicked?
| spa3thyb wrote:
| Just a suggestion - I tried to look this up in HN search (there
| is an unrelated YC company, Bonsai, that I thought this was
| connected to) and didn't get a hit as the title doesn't include
| the name of the project - so please consider including it next
| time. I _love_ the direction you 're going here!
| Joe_Boogz wrote:
| Looks cool, waiting to try the windows release :)
| rank0 wrote:
| I'm impressed. I could see using this browser in addition to
| keeping FF as my main daily driver.
|
| I would use it specifically for programming or my security
| engineering work. Do y'all envision the product being used to
| fill this specific research niche? Or do you intend to create a
| browser to replace chrome/ff/safari?
| constantine_c wrote:
| The whole concept of this browser is really great. It would solve
| a lot of my problems regarding where to properly store topics I'm
| doing research on (since I'm a student and knowledge junkie I
| tend to just dig for 10-15 resources and never get to reading
| them)
|
| My main question is what's your businesses model? You
| monetization plan?
| hyferg wrote:
| Thanks! Our plan right now is to do a perpetual fallback
| license for $50 when we can prove the browser is something
| people want. We could make the browser free later on if we can
| provide paid features that require us to run servers.
| jahewson wrote:
| > prove the browser is something people want.
|
| prove the browser is something people want _for free_
| crazy_horse wrote:
| Charging for a browser sounds crazy to me.
| ayewo wrote:
| Crazy? I'm curious how you would characterize a cloud-
| based web browser that is sold using a subscription
| model?
|
| Link: https://www.mightyapp.com/
|
| Show HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26957215
| POiNTx wrote:
| I'd buy a browser if it guarantees me privacy, is fast,
| and does the job. I use a browser every day for multiple
| hours per day, $50 seems very reasonable.
| crazy_horse wrote:
| Sure, but a wrapper around Electron isn't a hard thing to
| copy, and they've got to go from a neat tech demo to what
| you are describing.
| constantine_c wrote:
| Also what's your stand point about privacy?
| Version467 wrote:
| Love the concept. Haven't tried it yet, but it looks awesome. If
| it's as good as it seems to be I would pay for it.
|
| A must however is support for password managers (bitwarden in my
| case).
|
| I also very much like that you made a complete browser instead of
| a chrome plugin. It allows you to rethink navigation and
| organization in a much less restricted way and I think it shows.
| yawnxyz wrote:
| I love that workflow-oriented browser ideas are popping up. Funny
| enough I just ran into Sigma OS browser earlier today, but
| haven't tried it yet: https://sigmaos.com/
| meowface wrote:
| That looks pretty cool. Some kind of combination between
| SigmaOS and Bonsai would seem especially interesting and
| useful.
|
| (Side note: "SigmaOS" initially made me think it'd be an
| operating system. And "Bonsai Browser" reminds me a tiny bit of
| everyone's favorite purple monkey helper/[ad|spy]ware, Bonzi
| Buddy. Especially with the top of the page landing page saying
| things like "Use a hotkey to make bonsai appear anywhere". I
| don't actually think anyone would ever possibly confuse the
| two, but just an amusing thing that came to mind.)
| ziroshima wrote:
| Pretty cool. Looks somewhat similar to Dash
| (https://kapeli.com/dash)
| IfOnlyYouKnew wrote:
| The problem with Dash is that the guy is a creep. He's also
| gotten quite greedy, with new versions with only minor changes
| every year since he was kicked out of the App Store (for one of
| his lesser creeps).
|
| There are a bunch of clones, however. The format has become
| somewhat of a standard.
| yaseer wrote:
| I love the idea of domain specific browsers.
|
| Congrats on shipping, will be monitoring this one!
| tailspin2019 wrote:
| This looks great.
|
| I was sceptical from the article title, but was immediately sold
| on the idea when I saw it in action.
|
| A good sign to me is that you have solved problems I didn't
| realise I had. I like the floating window concept - can
| definitely see how that would be useful for having documentation
| front and centre while working on something. The spatial
| organisation thing is very nice too.
|
| Looks like it's early days still for the project but I think
| you're onto something. Good luck with it!
| shreyshnaccount wrote:
| anybody know similar apps for Linux?
| AUSNA-ZI wrote:
| from the author:
|
| > What's next?
|
| > We are fixing up our Linux and Windows versions for public
| use.
| MarcelOlsz wrote:
| Wicked demo. Been looking for something like this for years.
| Cheers.
| _zachs wrote:
| This looks awesome! Any way to subscribe for when a Linux version
| is available?
| hyferg wrote:
| There's a link to a discord server on the bottom of the landing
| page. We'll post updates there.
| MacroChip wrote:
| If you want a chrome extension that turns your history into a
| tree I made it:
| https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/histree/linpklflmo...
| reddit_clone wrote:
| Looks interesting.
|
| How does this handle multiple desktops in Mac OS X?
| jmercouris wrote:
| How exactly does this help me think clearly? Are there any tools
| that allow me to avoid distraction or figure out what I need to
| do?
| sritchie wrote:
| I was thrilled to see that SICMUtils, FDG and friends are there
| as one of the examples! This looks awesome, and thanks for taking
| a look at those projects :)
| BMFXX wrote:
| I actually really love that there's more people focusing on this
| problem. Its one a friend of mine also tried to address, with
| https://enterflow.app/
|
| As someone with extreme ADHD, this has made my life so much
| easier and reduced my tab clutter.
|
| I love how this is so hot-key rich, I think like everyone else
| has kind of mentioned I wish we had chrome extensions, last pass,
| editthiscookie etc. It's the pro vs con of going extension vs
| full blown browser.
|
| One of the other hurdles I've encountered is restricted installs
| by internal companies due to "security" reasons.
|
| I am gonna be giving this a go for the next few days and see how
| I adapt to it.
|
| Seriously love the fact this is becoming a focus for people.
| xyos wrote:
| it's giving 404 when you try to download it
| smaddock wrote:
| I've been working on adding better support for browser
| extensions in Electron. It's an absolutely necessary feature
| for web browsers. Maybe OP can have a look:
| https://www.npmjs.com/package/electron-chrome-extensions
| phelmig wrote:
| Your "Add Flow to Firefox" Link results in a 404 for me. It
| links to https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/enter-
| flow/.
| BMFXX wrote:
| Not mine, but I'll pass the message on to the friend. I know
| they're focused on some other areas now. Thanks!
| Arisaka1 wrote:
| Today I decided to check out the state of Microsoft Edge after
| installing Windows 11 and it felt like I am fighting the
| browser to stop throwing stuff on me in order to focus and just
| do the work I want to do. News section, sports, suggestions
| flooded me. The address bar tapping both bookmarks and history
| spits a dozen lines on every keypress assuming things.
|
| I'm not even diagnosed with ADHD and I'm still tired that I
| have to spent time configuring things to fix a user experience
| more aligned with the company behind the browser than my needs.
| And I only covered the things I am allowed to touch with a
| little googling, not the ones I just have to accept as
| inevitable.
|
| A browser that helps me go straight into what I want? Sign me
| up!
| baktubi wrote:
| Alas, the state of the tech advertising industry...
|
| Honestly, it's all so exhausting I'm just so damn tired. You
| can't even buy an OS anymore that isn't loaded to the brim
| with bloat and spyware--provided BY THE MANUFACTURER
| nonetheless.
|
| Honestly, once Windows ten is end Of life I'm done with tech
| industry.
|
| I'll go to the library and read some books; I'll use a
| pen/pencil; I'll wander, blissfully into the sunset.
| prirai wrote:
| Why, there's Linux.
| baktubi wrote:
| I agree Linux is great--and I shall continue to use the
| OS. But the online ads are even more exhausting than
| desktop-bound ads no matter which browser, no matter
| which ad blocker, no matter which OS. Not just ads but
| those annoying "cookie" banners ...
|
| And let me just say: God help those who frequent
| TikTok... Their minds will be mush 2.0.
| ryan-duve wrote:
| Some of these features look awesome and I can see how much
| thought went into them. The hotkey toggle looks like a viable
| alternative to splitting the screen with a console and pop out
| mode seems similar to how Firefox allows videos to be overlaid on
| other pages. I'll be honest, I don't really see the utility of
| some features like workspaces or the tree history, but then again
| I initially rolled my eyes at Gmail's pop out compose and clearly
| they knew what I wanted better than I did!
|
| I have a few questions:
|
| 1. Did you code the engine from scratch, or is it based on
| Chromium or Gecko or something?
|
| 2. What's your sustainability, e.g., monetization, plan for the
| browser?
|
| 3. Do you have any estimate on how long until I can `apt install
| bonsai-browser` from an official distro repository?
| hyferg wrote:
| Hey thanks for the feedback.
|
| > Did you code the engine from scratch...
|
| We're using Electron with all the UI done with HTML. The
| criticism against Electron is that you don't need to bundle a
| fully functional web browser to distribute a your app but
| distributing a fully functional web browser is one of our
| goals! The other options were using CEF or actually recompiling
| Chromium. To have a sensible workflow with Chromium you would
| want to hook into it with a scripting language so you can
| develop the chrome [0] without recompiling. Electron already
| has done this with the BrowserView API accessible with
| javascript! We've already run into limitations of the Electron
| framework so we will be considering extending it or doing our
| own thing when it makes sense.
|
| > What's your sustainability...
|
| I really like the JetBrains perpetual fallback license so
| something like that at a price point of $50 makes sense. If we
| can provide some useful paid services that run on a server then
| we could make the browser free.
|
| > Do you have any estimate on how long...
|
| I'll look into it! If it's no harder than signing/notarizing
| the app for macOS distribution then the main work to be done is
| fix some bugs and make sure the windows play nicely with the
| host OS. This could be done in less than a month from now!
|
| [0]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_user_interface#User_...
| leobg wrote:
| Downloaded it, installed it, and loving it!
|
| The big thing I'm missing most is LastPass. Without access to my
| passwords, I can see myself falling back to Chrome. In fact, I
| need to keep Chrome running so I can look up my login names and
| passwords there in order to copy them over to Bonsai when I'm
| being asked to log in. If you could support popular password
| managers inside your browser, that would help a lot!
| greenie_beans wrote:
| yeah, good suggestion. i'm trying to use a password manager on
| my first try. can't figure out how to without leaving the app.
| itwy wrote:
| You should drop any software that prevents you from changing
| another unrelated software. In other words, move from LastPass
| to Bitwarden.
| dubcanada wrote:
| OP is saying browser extensions don't work. Not that LastPass
| doesn't work with the browser.
| itwy wrote:
| And I am saying Bitwarden is not tied to a web browser - it
| has a desktop client.
| sodality2 wrote:
| As does LastPass
| itwy wrote:
| No, it does not.
| jaywalk wrote:
| Yes, it does:
| https://lastpass.com/misc_download2.php?tab=mac
| Vaslo wrote:
| Mac only though. Many of us don't have or want Apple PCs.
| phist_mcgee wrote:
| This still refutes the previous poster's point though.
| Just because you don't use apple, does not mean that
| LastPass doesn't offer this service.
| raunak wrote:
| You assume most people have the patience to copy paste
| passwords from Bitwarden rather than the ease of Lastpass
| - just doesn't work for 99% of the population.
| JoshTriplett wrote:
| A password manager integrated with a browser can offer
| more security, because it can verify the domain to
| prevent copy-pasting the password into a phishing site.
| jedberg wrote:
| Having your password manager tied to your browser is more
| secure because the saved password doesn't show up unless
| you're in the correct domain, preventing phishing attacks.
| doctorhandshake wrote:
| Some simple constructive criticism: I think you should find a
| more pleasing and modern color palette. The green and orange
| you're using are, to my eye, quite ugly and distracting. A better
| color system will go a long way aesthetically and will make the
| site and UI feel more inviting. [edit: typo]
| tailspin2019 wrote:
| I definitely agree with this.
|
| The rest of the UI looks really nice from the screenshots but
| the blocks of colours stood out to me too.
| xpe wrote:
| > ... that helps programmers think clearly
|
| This marketing pitch does not ring true to me.
|
| I think the founders can do better. The bar, in my view, would be
| a phrase that embodies the product without stretching
| credibility. In other words, the current phrase sets expectations
| too high relative to the product.
| cestith wrote:
| I find the pitch true to the extent that it says "helps" and I
| think that much is true. How much is helps and whether it helps
| more than any other random tool is another matter. There's
| another comment that says something more general like a window
| manager or DE that allows any content to be overlaid like this
| would be better. I think I agree with that.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28447659
| DavideNL wrote:
| Those seem like awesome features! Hopefully it will be
| implemented in a non-Chrome browser one day, like
| Firefox/Gecko...
| curioussavage wrote:
| I really like the tab view by domain. Seems like it could be
| handy to even display pages on the domain from history in those
| columns, sorted by most recently visited. Maybe also grayed out a
| little or under a "history" section
| leepowers wrote:
| Love the concept. My only blocker for adoption is being able to
| import bookmarks from Firefox into Bonsai.
|
| Feedback and ideas:
|
| 1) On macOS Catalina - can't Cmd+Tab out of full-screen.
|
| 2) Bookmarks import.
|
| 3) Search somewhere other than Google. Would love to be able to
| define a set of URLs to hit, instead of being limited to
| https://www.google.com/search?q=...
|
| 4) Search within pages. In addition to search engines. So if I
| export my bookmarks to an HTML file, I could search that file. Or
| if I could search within local documentation that's not online.
|
| 5) Collab workspaces. A team could share a workspace that defines
| the same search engines and documents.
|
| 6) Window size other than fullscreen.
| _bohm wrote:
| Looks really cool and I'd love to give it a shot! Is this
| intended to be open source? It looks like the associated repo [0]
| only has a README and some releases with the Mac installers in
| the assets.
|
| [0] https://github.com/hyferg/bonsai-browser-public
| hyferg wrote:
| I'm using that repo to distribute the app since it works well
| with our CI. We could make the browser open source if we can
| find some paid services to run on a server and more importantly
| there is a potential community that is interested in its
| development.
| donio wrote:
| For many of us switching to a closed browser in 2021 is a
| difficult proposition because of the security, trust and
| longevity issues. The value trade-off would have to be pretty
| extreme to even consider it.
| ericd wrote:
| Something I've wanted for a while in my other browsers, I'd love
| a "no distraction" mode that ran a simple topic classifier on the
| last few pages I've been looking at, and then greyed out links to
| pages that were obviously nowhere near that topic. Thinking
| specifically of the "links from across stack exchange list on the
| right sidebar of SO" that often draw me into reading about eg
| DND, Wikipedia rabbitholes, or any page component that tries to
| get you to lose your train of thought and get lost on that site.
|
| Also, the ability to grey out links to domains I've decided I
| never want to visit.
| sam0x17 wrote:
| And yet another great idea that only works on a Mac. Would love
| to see this on Linux + Windows!!
| dimal wrote:
| Looks very cool! Is there a way to change the hotkey? I have
| option-space deeply encoded in my brain to bring up Alfred, so
| I'd rather not change that. And is there any way to navigate
| between open pages with the keyboard? Seems like all the
| navigation is very mouse-centric.
| atarian wrote:
| Have you had any problems logging into Google? IIRC Google blocks
| logins from using embedded browser frameworks like Electron and
| CEF.
| yewenjie wrote:
| Thinking about how to achieve some of these features in Firefox
|
| 1. An extension like Tree Style Tabs, but in a dedicated tab,
| which is pinned to the first tab, so easily accessible with
| `Alt+1`.
|
| 2. A keyboard shortcut for detaching the tab (via something like
| Tridactyl) and then resizing it using a tiling window manager.
|
| 2 is easy to achieve, if 1 does not yet exist in some form I
| might build it someday.
| Jnr wrote:
| And I too prefer Firefox with Tree Style Tabs, been using that
| for years.
|
| In general similar setups are not uncommon on Linux with tiling
| window managers. Probably the reason this app is available for
| Mac only. :)
|
| Setting up a nice environment takes time, it doesn't come out
| of the box. So it is good to see people trying to come up with
| ready solutions.
| awongh wrote:
| Very cool demo!
|
| Years ago I built a chrome extension tab manager that had some of
| the same features- fuzzy search, spatial grouping, tree history.
| I built it for my own use because I usually have too many tabs
| open and need some kind of principle of organizing the tabs I
| have open. I couldn't get far enough on the browser extension for
| it to work well for me, so I just gave up on organizing my
| browser. Now I'm just scared to ever close all my tabs for fear
| of losing some train of thought.
| SCUSKU wrote:
| Can I change the default browser to DuckDuckGo?
| staticassertion wrote:
| Very compelling demo. I like how this is basically a tool for
| grouping, labeling, and connecting webpages - it feels like it
| gets at the heart of 'the web', (or at least the part a lot of us
| interact with forums), a big connected graph that we have to
| manage in this disconnected tabular manner due to browser UX.
|
| Curious to see more in the future.
| amelius wrote:
| Curious if you considered to write a window-manager instead,
| because that would allow programmers to use other applications
| besides webbrowsers. E.g. you could put a Mathematica window in a
| pane, while coding in another pane.
| dotancohen wrote:
| KDE (Plasma) makes this very easy, with tiling shortcuts and
| always-on-top features.
|
| The other killer feature of Bonsai - grouping tabs - is far
| better done by Tree Style Tabs in firefox.
| eurasiantiger wrote:
| What I really want is a browser that displays information in a
| clear, unified format that I can customize to my liking.
|
| I want this browser to disregard all visual HTML and CSS
| rendering, and rather instrument a headless browser to gather the
| navigation and content from sites.
|
| I want to be able to easily make my own instrumentation for sites
| that do not yet work on this browser.
|
| I'm want to allow some branding in the form of one theme color,
| used for one top navigation bar background, and a site logo
| there. That's it. Nothing else. But maybe make this easily
| customizable with the rest of the interface.
|
| In effect, a "reader mode" but for the entire browsing
| experience, not just the main content.
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| Opera Browser had this feature for a long time.
|
| User styles vs site styles. Either or both could be on or off.
| antics9 wrote:
| Mothra in Plan9 or the gemini protocol as suggested.
| tammer wrote:
| The resurgence of the email newsletter in recent times is a
| sign that, regardless of advances in web and web-connected
| applications, on a broad timescale open connectivity protocols
| ultimately hold lasting appeal.
|
| Open protocols and techniques that enable effortless parsing of
| information serve a growing need for users of the web today.
| While I'm not sure if it will be gopher or something new, I
| foresee significant disruption potential for whatever
| effectively fills this need at scale.
| allknowingfrog wrote:
| It doesn't address your specific desire (uniform rendering of
| existing HTML), but the Gemini protocol seems to align with
| your desire for a simpler internet. It's worth a look if you
| aren't already familiar. https://gemini.circumlunar.space/
| anigbrowl wrote:
| I like the idea of Gemini but the reality is 'here's a list
| of random servers which could be anything but at least our
| user interface is from the 1980s'. I like how it's lighter
| than the web, but I don't see how it's 'heavier than Gopher'
| as suggested (and I have been watching the Gemini project for
| a few months now).
|
| I was on the internet well before the web and I used Gopher
| all the time. It was great by the standards of the time (ie
| 1200 baud modems so a page of text like this HN discussion
| would easily take a minute or more to load and would probably
| do so with many errors). Gopher was (somewhat) integrated
| with two other services known as Archie and Veronica for
| content discovery. It was primitive, but relatively easy to
| navigate if you knew what you were looking for.
|
| What we have here is a bunch of Gemini servers but no concept
| of user service. Are they blogs? aggregators? malware
| endpoints? interactive fiction/text adventures? I don't know,
| and that's _not_ part of the fun. It 's as if Gemini has
| fetishized the least good aspects of the BBS/Gopher/pre-web
| experience - lack of UI consistency and non-discoverability -
| in the hope of getting something better by forcing everyone
| to start over.
|
| Nobody* has time for that. Harder doesn't automatically equal
| better. Gemini would be vastly improved if it presented with
| some color/minimal formatting (like syntax highlighting
| controlled at the user end or with _typography_ for the
| color-blind)and seeded some _useful information_ like
| mirroring Wikipedia or something that people are already
| familiar with. There are some Wikipedia proxies (gemini:
| //medusae.space/index.gmi?25) but the only working one I know
| of is not listed (gemini://vault.transjovian.org).
|
| This is Not Great.
|
| * hyperbole is always an option
|
| To change the world, there needs to be some critical mass of
| people using it, and to get people using it there needs to be
| some demonstration of what it's capable of. I want to love
| it. I have clients (plural) installed. But honestly, I don't
| want to invest the time figuring out how to make the server
| do interesting stuff, if I can't find anything very
| interesting to do with the client. Absent any effort to make
| it functional for one external thing, it's doomed to remain a
| toy, or an 'esoteric protocol' that everyone pays lip service
| to but nobody actually uses.
|
| Here's a suggestion: get a gemini HN proxy running. It ought
| to be super easy given how minimal HN is, and would give
| people and excuse to have a Gemini browser running all the
| time.
| hyferg wrote:
| Here's a cook UX project [0] that shows a potential UI-free
| operating system like you described.
|
| [0] https://uxdesign.cc/introducing-mercury-os-f4de45a04289
| luxurytent wrote:
| I'd love for a web browser to have first-class integration with a
| universal personal search system like Monocle [0]. I find if I
| want to learn something new I am searching externally, but if I
| am attempting to recall something, being able to search through
| all my indexed notes in the same interface I'm building,
| researching, and planning in has potential.
|
| [0] https://github.com/thesephist/monocle
| inetsee wrote:
| I didn't think much of the Bonsai Browser when I saw that it
| was MAC only. I decided to check out the comments anyway, and
| I'm glad I did. The Monocle personal search engine that you
| referenced looks like an exceptionally useful tool, and I will
| definitely give it a try.
|
| Yes, I did notice the comment about a Windows and Linux version
| coming. I'll check out the Bonsai Browser when the Linux
| version is available. I suggest that the developers post on HN
| again to announce when the other versions are available.
| tailspin2019 wrote:
| Perhaps something like Raycast or Alfred would let you build
| this kind of universal search as a plug-in?
|
| You've got me thinking...
| howmayiannoyyou wrote:
| Okay, this is fantastic and not just for programming. I'd like to
| see this be actively developed and enhanced. Might even pay for
| something like this.
| anigbrowl wrote:
| Love it, this is the most innovative thing in the browser space
| for a long while. It's baffling to me how _boring_ most 'new'
| browsers are - most propositions are 'like X but with less
| friction on these 2 or 3 things'.
|
| I hate that it's only for Mac so far, but glad to see others are
| on the way. I've been thinking about picking up a cheap older mac
| for development work, though, and this is one more reason in
| favor.
| LeftHandPath wrote:
| I love the spatial organization. I, not even five or six hours
| ago, had made a note on my iPhone describing something just
| like it (except where you would get to the spatial organization
| view by dragging down the bar at the top of the window). My
| thought was that we (humans) can remember spaces quite well,
| and certainly much better than we can track a tab's location in
| an ever-expanding list. IMO, spatial organization should
| replace bookmarks (and tabs should be treated as bookmarks
| unless the user has interacted with them since the browser was
| opened. Maybe I use tabs in a weird way).
|
| Will definitely have to give this a try when it makes its way
| to other operating systems.
| crazy_horse wrote:
| I'm surprised to see you so excited about this. Have you used
| tiling window managers? What does this and a rofi or similar
| component not have, or a gnome3 script? Not as convenient,
| yeah.
|
| The big concern I would have if I were these guys is their
| magic is their UI, apparently, and they've given it away. If
| they truly have something good, it's some Electron windows
| inside a gui kit. Not to understate the work, but the work is
| ahead of them, too.
| vymague wrote:
| Looks cool, all browsers look samey these days. The big firefox
| update some time ago basically turned it into chrome. Appearance-
| wise.
| hyferg wrote:
| Hello, I'm Cameron and one of the two people working on the
| Bonsai web browser.
|
| We're focused on making a web browser for programmers to improve
| their workflow. It helps you look up docs and search information.
| You can toggle it on with a hotkey and it can overlay on your
| IDE. Tabs are grouped by domain for easy organization. The
| history data structure is a tree which shows how pages are back-
| linked to each other and to spatial workspaces. Both open tabs
| and pages in your workspaces are just pointers to a node in your
| history tree!
|
| You can watch a 2 minute video walkthrough here
| https://www.loom.com/share/93c7c0012f514c37b58a42fa65badc88 or
| download it from our website
|
| How did we end up here?
|
| Initially we wanted to make a citation manager because myself and
| a friend had an unconnected workflow moving research articles
| from Chrome -> Zotero -> Emacs org-mode. After talking to some
| other PhDs/postdocs the takeaway was that everyone has very
| different ways of doing research. This would mean that it would
| be impossible to make a citation manager that everyone would want
| to use.
|
| Later, a friend in industry mentioned that he had a hard time
| finding 'cloud documents' as part of his job. We then considered
| making a spotlight application to find and organize these
| documents. It turns out that this already been done and it seems
| that people actually just pull up their documents once at the
| beginning of the day anyway.
|
| We now think that the main problem is that web browsers are
| actually not currently suited for doing research. The current
| mixing of research type browsing with web-documents creates a
| mess and makes people think they want a 'cloud file search'.
|
| What's different?
|
| Instead of an add-on solution to Chrome which would create more
| noise, we are creating a fully functioning, organized way of
| managing information overload and keeping you on task as you go
| through your work day.
|
| What's next?
|
| We are fixing up our Linux and Windows versions for public use.
| JasonFruit wrote:
| Some of these features would be great built into a window
| manager. I'd love to be able to handle open windows the way you
| handle open pages.
| hyferg wrote:
| What types of things do you run in your OS that you think would
| be useful to group like this?
| JasonFruit wrote:
| Terminals with man pages, REPLs experimenting with different
| libraries, PDF readers with documentation, browser windows --
| lots of things.
| contingencies wrote:
| Hey Cameron. Here's another vote for PDF. With regards to
| additional applications I can strongly recommend adding as
| a first-class use case electronics design where summoning,
| displaying, comparing and extracting data from electronic
| parts datasheets is a huge part of workflow. Specific parts
| of these documents are typically the focus - eg.
| schematics, physical package drawings, tables. Adding a
| local (non-cloud) feature to auto-identify or quick scroll-
| through those to show them larger without manual
| zoom/repositioning as per current PDF viewer workflows
| would win many loyal users and should be feasible to build
| based upon open source OCR layout analysis engines such as
| tesseract. You may also consider for UI/UX purposes
| creating either voice input _datasheet <MPN>_ and/or a
| popup search box with bangs: _!datasheet <MPN>_, _!diagram
| <MPN>_...
| hyferg wrote:
| Thanks for the info. What OS do you run?
| JasonFruit wrote:
| Various Linuces, currently Debian.
| dotancohen wrote:
| Have you tried KDE? It has tiling shortcuts (not enabled
| by default) and an always-on-top feature for windows.
|
| Also, I once set up KDE 4 to put different apps into tabs
| of a single window. I'm not sure if KDE 5 can still do
| that, but it sounds like something that you would be
| interested in.
| JasonFruit wrote:
| I have tried KDE, but it's been a while. Maybe I'll give
| it a look again now that I have a nice powerful machine.
| dotancohen wrote:
| > now that I have a nice powerful machine.
|
| You're going to love KDE 5, if your last experience with
| KDE was back in the early 4 days when it was a memory and
| CPU hog. Today I don't even notice it at all. Just be
| sure to disable the File Search feature in System
| Settings. And it really is called File Search now, not
| some cryptic name that changed every other version.
| drekipus wrote:
| The spacial organisation and fuzzy finder looks great.
|
| the whole reason I use linux and gnome is because it's easy to
| pin window on top for this exact reason, (plus some other
| tweaks). You've captured how I ( and perhaps many) do work really
| well.
|
| Well done.
| Ataraxy wrote:
| The spatial organization is slick.
|
| Give this thing a slick UX pass and it'll be a pretty nice tool I
| could actually see myself using.
|
| Also dark mode is a must.
| zenjester wrote:
| macs have 8% of the market why oh why does HN feature so many mac
| only products?
| marstall wrote:
| sorry if I'm being dense but what's the hotkey to get it into
| "floaty" mode? That looks super useful.
| hyferg wrote:
| We've not added a hotkey for that, you have to press the button
| to the right of the url bar. I'll add a hotkey soon!
| fleaaaa wrote:
| I haven't used it but demo already got me so excited. This is the
| reason I check HN on a daily basis. Great work!!
| beebeepka wrote:
| I am sure many others have thought about doing something like
| this, including me, but you guys have done it.
|
| Looks awesome and has huge potential. Hurry up with the Linux
| build.
|
| It's about time for a browser akin to, you know, a desktop. What
| an inspiring project
| seph-reed wrote:
| Really, really like it. My one thought so far:
|
| - it would be nice to not have to use Google for search.
| Graffur wrote:
| The name reminds me of Bonsai buddy... a complete wreck the head
| computer program from the 90s/00s
| hemloc_io wrote:
| Lots of great stuff in here! Tried it out for a spin and it's
| very snappy, and I love all the mgmt features!
|
| Two quick things:
|
| 1. I don't think there's gesture support for the mac touchpad or
| a ton of keybindings. Adding those would be great b/c I try to
| avoid the mouse :) and it's easier on Chrome for the moment.
|
| 2. Do you guys have some kind of social presence we can follow to
| track your progress ? Could def see myself buying this in the
| future. EDIT: Checked out your site again and saw your discord.
| diskzero wrote:
| This is interesting and fun to use. I am not sure it would become
| part of my daily work flow because it is another browser and I am
| fairly attached to my current browser workflow.
|
| Is it out of the question for a lot of these feature to exist as
| a plugin to an existing browser? Bonsai could then be integrated
| to use my search engines prefs, my ad blockers, etc.
|
| Keep up the good work! It is great to see people pushing UI
| concepts.
| rcshubhadeep wrote:
| Would love to try this, but I am using Ubuntu :( Do you think a
| Linux version will be out sometimes soon?
| aembleton wrote:
| "We are fixing up our Linux and Windows versions for public
| use.": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28446157
| crazy_horse wrote:
| Check Pop!_OS's tiling window manager.
| gossamer wrote:
| It looks like a nice idea. Definitely add a feature to change the
| shortcut. I want it to behave more like a regular window. The
| full screen version can't be un-maximized. The Groups in the
| workspace can only be expanded horizontally. I want to be able to
| pick a color for the box too.
|
| I think this will be great once you have added some more
| features.
| danShumway wrote:
| These kinds of niche browsers come up so often, and I love the
| idea, but I'm constantly thrown off by both the lack of extension
| support and the lack of other privacy guarantees that come
| through Firefox. I can't, for example, turn off webGL on this
| browser, or use Firefox's anti-fingerprinting features. And of
| course uBlock.
|
| What I'm starting to realize is that the answer to this probably
| isn't just to try and add extension support to Electron or to get
| every project to reimplement webExtensions. Reimplementations are
| likely to have errors anyway. I'm slowly starting to realize that
| this is _likely_ the wrong way to solve the extension problem.
|
| Instead what I think is needed here is some kind of shared base
| for handling network connections, extensions, privacy, and
| adblocking. Honestly, it doesn't necessarily even need to be a
| graphical browser, these projects don't have a problem rendering
| content or embedding a V8 engine. What they need is some kind
| shared, trusted utility that they can all use to hook into that
| would almost act like a MITM between the page and them.
|
| I look at stuff like Servo/Stylo, and that's obviously exciting,
| but the hard part here doesn't seem to be rendering CSS/HTML,
| laying out pages, and executing Javascript. The hard part is
| switching browsers without feeling like you're giving up a lot of
| security/privacy work in the process, and maybe there's some way
| for a shared framework to do that without worrying about the
| rendering part at all? I would love to try out a browser like
| Bonsai while keeping most of my existing Firefox settings in
| regards to privacy, site isolation, adblocking, etc... Whether
| that would be some kind of proxy that sat between browsers and
| the Internet, or whether it was something that browsers could be
| built on? I don't know, I'm sure there are complications I
| haven't thought of.
|
| Am I off base with this? There's so much talk about how browsers
| are wildly complicated and that makes it hard to build new ones.
| But the showstoppers for me with indie browsers rarely have
| anything at all to do with web compatibility or what engine
| they're using. That's not really the part that I feel like is
| missing. I _almost_ wonder if it would be possible to hook
| something up to headless Firefox as a middleperson so that
| Firefox could at least do some work with forcing DoS, running
| pages through uBlock Origin, quarantining storage, etc...
|
| Matrix has sort of tried to work in this direction with some of
| their clients. Stuff like E2E encryption isn't recommended to
| build yourself -- Matrix tries to provide a service you can link
| with whatever your custom client is that just handles E2E for you
| -- that way when you use a custom client, it's less likely that
| they've accidentally encrypted all of your messages incorrectly.
| ejarzo wrote:
| Really cool idea, looking forward to trying it out! My only
| complaint is that the default hotkey is the same as Alfred -- Is
| there any way to customize it?
| hyferg wrote:
| Not right now. I'll add that to our todo list.
| dhosek wrote:
| It's also the way to input a non-breaking space (\xa0) with
| the standard keyboard, something I use a lot.
| broberts01 wrote:
| Same for me too, using Raycast
| betageek wrote:
| This looks really great, something I could use and would pay for
| when polished but there's definitely a few issues for me at the
| moment:
|
| * Why go fullscreen and modal? I want to drag in links from docs,
| email, other browsers, have it side by side while reading PDFs
| etc. etc. this stops me from doing any of that
|
| * Please let me change the shortcut! I already have Option-Space
| bound.
|
| * Let me put the browser window anywhere I want when it's in the
| single page non-fullscreen mode, don't levitate it to where you
| think I want it
|
| * Unless I'm missing something the process of opening a page then
| adding it to a workspace seems to be three clicks - open page,
| hit + (plus) button, select workspace, select workspace/inbox -
| need to make this one click, maybe just show the inboxes? This
| also seems clunky, I'd much rather browse, drag that page to the
| workspace/inbox, continue browsing and adding further pages, then
| arrange all the pages in the workspace after i've added all the
| links. Seems a faster workflow.
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