[HN Gopher] Optical-Cavity-Induced Current
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       Optical-Cavity-Induced Current
        
       Author : graderjs
       Score  : 64 points
       Date   : 2021-09-10 06:05 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.mdpi.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.mdpi.com)
        
       | aaaaaaaaaaab wrote:
       | Cool! Free electricity!
        
       | mrfusion wrote:
       | Any thoughts on where the energy comes from?
        
       | _Microft wrote:
       | Reference [24] seems to be important.
       | 
       |  _" The source of these optical modes could be the quantum vacuum
       | field, which gives rise to the Casimir force [18,19,20,21], the
       | Lamb shift [22], and other physical effects [23]. It was argued
       | that the use of energy from the vacuum field does not violate
       | fundamental laws of thermodynamics [24]."_
       | 
       | Despite the importance of the question of ,,where the heck does
       | the energy for that come from", they give it surprisingly little
       | space in the paper.
       | 
       | [24]
       | https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?title=Extracting+E...
        
         | nine_k wrote:
         | If it's just incoming photons, a photovoltaic element that does
         | not need doped monocrystalline silicon might be a valuable
         | find.
        
         | plutonorm wrote:
         | Maybe this is dark matter. All those civilisations out there
         | plugged directly into the background juice of the universe make
         | it more 'grabby', slowing the rotation of galaxies. I always
         | put my mad ideas out onto the internet because if they prove to
         | be true then I have bragging rights.
         | 
         | I'm still reading through ref 24 - that's the one that
         | immediately grabbed my attention. Anyone know if the authors
         | have some authority in the subject?
        
       | oofabz wrote:
       | What is the practical application of this? Free energy?
        
         | plutonorm wrote:
         | yup.literally free energy.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | tantony wrote:
       | There's a video version:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tGRhTXKh8A
       | 
       | I will remain skeptical until it is independently reproduced and
       | verified and gets demonstrated at scale.
        
         | varjag wrote:
         | Yup. The presentation (and the paper) are very light on math,
         | argue by analogies and dismissive about USPTO's rather
         | reasonable policy to discard inventions contradicting 2nd law
         | of thermodynamics. The author is undoubtedly a technical person
         | but gives off the vibe of someone trying to casually wing it
         | into quantum physics.
         | 
         | Since am not a physicist myself I could well be proven wrong
         | tho. In that case this reply gotta end up infamous!
        
         | atlas_hugged wrote:
         | I'm not a physicist but even I can tell this dude isn't either.
         | My quack alarms were ringing within seconds of watching this
         | video, but I watched the whole thing anyway to see if I was
         | judging too harshly and he actually had discovered something
         | notable. This guy spent more time attacking scientists, peer-
         | review, and just generally the process of science itself than
         | actually just showing some damn proof. You would think one
         | would be showing video demonstrations of this unbelievable
         | effect. He tempers his claims by saying that it scales with a
         | larger area and it produces less power than a solar panel of
         | equivalent size and I thought... ok, let's say I'm completely
         | wrong and this guy just invented a "solar panel" type of device
         | that can be used without visible light yet produces less
         | energy... I suppose that could still be fairly useful depending
         | on the application. Bravo, well done if that's the case. Go
         | ahead and make one or 10 panels or whatever and set it up in an
         | empty warehouse with a 24/7 video feed and show it continuously
         | charging an electric car, or powering a tv, or hell even
         | powering a light bulb. I'll retweet. I'll be a customer even if
         | it's just for fun checking out this new dangled tech. No, he
         | suddenly starts talking about how he could potentially create
         | coin cell sized battery of infinite power among other far
         | fetched sounding claims. Say what??? Maybe my quick math is off
         | by several orders of magnitude but this threw off so many quack
         | alarms that it's just way beyond belief. I hope and pray that
         | I'm wrong and the rather modest initial claim is somehow
         | correct even if it's for reasons he doesn't understand. Yes, it
         | is ok to not understand why something works, as long as it gets
         | you results. Who cares what anyone thinks? Start a tiny energy
         | company out of pocket with however many panels you can make.
         | Sell electricity and profit from it. Go nuts. Get rich.
         | Eventually people will realize whether they like it or not that
         | you have something worth looking at. Look, I totally get that
         | most scientific discoveries start off with a statement of:
         | "huh, that's weird"... but that doesn't mean you get to declare
         | that the whole world is against you. "They" are not just
         | jealous. "They" are not just afraid of violating current
         | understandings of science. Scientists incorporate new
         | understandings fairly regularly. Sure a couple people might be
         | jealous they didn't figure something out first, but that
         | doesn't mean every scientist on earth is out to get you. Holy
         | hell this turned into a rambling rant. I apologize. It was just
         | a stream of thought that I don't care to edit at this point.
         | I'm sorry this came across so rude. Make me a customer sir.
         | I'll joyfully put a sock in it if you succeed.
        
         | nynx wrote:
         | The description seems reasonable, but given how many times
         | "zero-point energy" has been shown not to be harvestable, it's
         | unlikely that this is the time it worked.
        
           | tantony wrote:
           | This may turn out to be another EMDrive. But the implications
           | of this claim being true are too great to ignore and warrants
           | further investigation.
           | 
           | I wonder what it would take in terms of expense/equipment to
           | do an independent verification.
        
             | rbanffy wrote:
             | It's a bit like the FTL neutrinos. We knew it couldn't be,
             | but the data showed otherwise, so they got to check
             | everything down to the cable connections.
        
               | exmadscientist wrote:
               | The EMDrive is a better example, I think. The OPERA
               | people knew from the start that they likely had an
               | "uncontrolled systematic" and their measurement was
               | likely to be wrong, so very few people got excited. The
               | EMDrive got a lot of people excited over a minor error in
               | a very difficult measurement. In both cases the general
               | "science" public picked up on it, inappropriately, but in
               | only one of the two cases were the flames fanned by the
               | research team. (Compare also the Pioneer anomaly [0].)
               | 
               | I do suspect this is just another EMDrive. Interacting
               | with the vacuum to shift energy around is well-known
               | (again, see Hawking radiation [1]), but holding on to it
               | overall for long enough to violate the uncertainty
               | principle (the one for the E-t commutator) doesn't work.
               | And I don't think you can hold it just long enough to
               | reverse entropy... though that doesn't sound prima facie
               | impossible. Making a measurement incorrectly, though... I
               | do that every day I'm in the lab.
               | 
               | Addition: Also, the MDPI journals are kinda-sorta just
               | one step up from trash-tier, at least in my mind, so I
               | don't pay much attention to work that can only manage to
               | get in to one of them.
               | 
               | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_anomaly
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation
               | 
               | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
               | ...at least I think it's in there somewhere. Otherwise
               | grab Griffiths!
        
               | tantony wrote:
               | They also got published in an APS journal - "Physical
               | Review Research"
               | 
               | https://journals.aps.org/prresearch/abstract/10.1103/Phys
               | Rev...
               | 
               | However, I do not know how reputable that particular
               | journal is.
        
       | tinco wrote:
       | Do I understand correctly that this is an effect that had not
       | been predicted by any theory? And they assume it could be caused
       | by some quantum effect but they have not worked out a full theory
       | on it, I presume because that's simply not their ballgame.
        
         | plutonorm wrote:
         | It seems to have been predicted by the lead author, who has
         | then got a third party to manufacture and verify the device's
         | function. I believe the function of the device is predicted
         | from theories surrounding the Casimir effect.
        
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