[HN Gopher] September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time ___________________________________________________________________ September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time Author : smohnot Score : 546 points Date : 2021-09-11 15:24 UTC (7 hours ago) (HTM) web link (911realtime.org) (TXT) w3m dump (911realtime.org) | phaedrus wrote: | I was in USMC boot camp on 9/11/2001. You don't get much chance | to consume media during training, and they put us on lock down | and gave us only limited information. We knew kind of serious | attack had happened, but not exactly what. | | By the time I got out of training, the news cycle had moved on so | it wasn't until the first anniversary of 9/11 that I saw the news | footage of the event for the first time. | | Coincidentally I ended up stationed in Washington, D.C. and from | my barracks I could see the construction cranes working on the | damage to the Pentagon. | | So it's this weird combination of feeling connected since I was | in the military when it happened and then lived near one of the | sites, but I also missed a lot. This site could help me see some | of the experience I missed. | dharmab wrote: | > By the time I got out of training, the news cycle had moved | on so it wasn't until the first anniversary of 9/11 that I saw | the news footage of the event for the first time. | | This might seem strange to some younger readers, but remember | in 01-02 internet video (and, indeed, internet faster than | dial-up) was not ubiquitous. My family has a VHS tape recording | of the news that day because that was how the average person | preserved TV broadcasts. | dragonwriter wrote: | > This might seem strange to some younger readers, but | remember in 01-02 internet video (and, indeed, internet | faster than dial-up) was not ubiquitous. | | And even if you used internet video (or, heck, even _read_ | news online), none of the sources (origins sites and Google | and other portals) had the capacity to deal well with the | major surge of associated with a event like 9 /11. Everything | online was spotty or broken under load. 9/11 broke the | internet before "breaking the internet" was a thing, and more | literally than almost anything since. | uplifter wrote: | I recall that even slashdot got slashdotted, which was | itself incredible. The admins there at least had the sense | to put up a static page with info about the attacks, which | is where I first got some details about it after a fellow | student in my theory of computation class first notified me | (I think he had a pocket radio he was listening to in | class). | | For those too young to know, being slashdotted was a term | for your website going offline due to too much traffic, | named for (and primarily used on) the site slashdot.com. | Slashdot was the preeminent popular tech/nerd discussion | forum of the time, and being linked from a story on | slashdot would often direct more attention to your server | than it could handle. | dragonwriter wrote: | > For those too young to know, being slashdotted was a | term for your website going offline due to too much | traffic, named for (and primarily used on) the site | slashdot.com | | A current term for the same thing is the "HN hug of | death", as HN can drive the kind of effect slashdot used | to (in part because it has become the new center of | gravity for some of the kinds of discussions that used to | drive traffic from Slashdot.) | zrail wrote: | I remember getting dismissed from school early and going to | a friends house and trying to find news. The only site we | could find that was actually responding was Slashdot, which | went to text-only for the day and a few days following. | | Edit: the metafilter thread gives a horrific moment-by- | moment update stream if that's something you want to read: | https://www.metafilter.com/10034/Plane-crashes-in-to-the- | wor... | alphabetting wrote: | Wow. thanks for sharing. | | "This is going to be a big turning point in the history | and character of this country, I think." posted by Doug | at 6:51 AM on September 11, 2001 | | Doug was more right than he could have known. | bellyfullofbac wrote: | All news sites were down, I remember thinking it was | before dawn for Australians, so I tried one of their news | sites, and it worked... | johnchristopher wrote: | Sarah Kendzior (and most likely other journalists from that | time) mentions this in her book Hiding in Plain Sight: 9/11 | changed the news, it shifted from print to the web because | the web could update faster. Newspapers websites were no | longer outdated copies of the print. | | Of course that brought about a whole lot of other | consequences. | dharmab wrote: | I don't remember which news site, but one of the major ones | had to go to a basic text-only format for several hours. | kenrose wrote: | It was CNN. Around 9:45 am it was slow, by 11 am it was | down / text only. | dunnevens wrote: | All of the majors stripped down to the basics, IIRC. At | least the ones I visited. | | Fark and Metafilter held up, but they were text to begin | with. | | Internet video was interesting that day. Couldn't get any | from the major sites because they were hammered. But I | remember links would get passed along to some Quicktime | clips on personal sites. No cell phone cameras, but small | camcorders + Macs with firewire were popular enough that | personal footage appeared quickly. | analogdreams wrote: | i think it was CNN that did that. | | i have a memory of trying to find out what was really | happening sitting in one of my college's library's after | an early morning class and trying to get anything to even | respond, much less load. for some reason i remember | 'relief' when i finally saw the CNN logo. | theli0nheart wrote: | > _This might seem strange to some younger readers, but | remember in 01-02 internet video (and, indeed, internet | faster than dial-up) was not ubiquitous. My family has a VHS | tape recording of the news that day because that was how the | average person preserved TV broadcasts._ | | TiVo was also pretty common, but as I recall I just watched | on our TV. | | Using the Internet for video in 2001 wasn't something anyone | would even momentarily consider as realistic. | varjag wrote: | I've been watching some broadcasts with RealPlayer, while | following the events on IRC. Our national TV did not wake | up to the events until maybe 5 hours later. | SilasX wrote: | Heh, funny how fast things changed. In a 2001 episode of | South Park, they mock Token for bringing a movie on DVD, | assuming their family was rich enough to have a DVD player | [1]. | | But I watched the episode on DVD in 2006, when everyone had | one, and so it aged like milk. | | [1] https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Here_Comes_the_Neighbor | hoo... | 4w5hlker wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - 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So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | ISL wrote: | You may find that watching the retrospective footage will make | you want to sign up for the Marines. | humanistbot wrote: | Is it just me or are all the channels broken with just old-school | TV static? Maybe the server is overloaded with the HN & reddit | hug of death. | jpindar wrote: | Are you at the right time? The time settings are strange - | something going on with timezones perhaps. | danlugo92 wrote: | Probably overloaded. One of the channels had signal for a few | seconds for me. | PrimeDirective wrote: | This needs to be archived but I have no interest in rewatching | it. That day, I was a 14 year old kid across the ocean. I had | just gotten home from school and was watching my favorite youth | program when the guy said there has been a plane crash in NYC. I | switched to CNN (or maybe Euronews?) and saw the first tower | burning. Then, on live TV, on the other side of Atlantic, I | watched as the second plane crashed into the second tower and | later how the towers came down. Writing this brings tears into my | eyes. | fnord77 wrote: | I was a quarter of a mile away, saw the buildings fall and I knew | people who died. | | I hate the reminders of 9/11 every anniversary. I know "never | forget" is a slogan, but I really am trying to forget. It | impacted me deeply. I left NYC and never came back. | PragmaticPulp wrote: | This site is interesting, but I was surprised to see some 9/11 | conspiracy theory elements in the News Ticker. | | Specifically, the "Janitor Hears Explosion from WTC Basement" in | the news ticker includes claims that an explosion occurred in the | basement 40 seconds before the first plane impact. Some quick | Googling shows that this janitor and another associate went on to | try to build a careers on top of these conspiracy theories. One | of them even tried to sue President Bush and 155 others over 9/11 | with a rambling lawsuit that alleges everything from controlled | demolition of the towers to sex trafficking by the defendents. | | Not a credible source, to say the least. I have no idea why this | site thought to include his claims, but I suspect they're trying | to seed doubt about the official timelines. | | Cool site, but take some of the editorialized content with a huge | grain of salt. | tommymachine wrote: | I'm not sure how those things discredit the janitor. | | Are you as critical of the politicians, who have built their | livelihoods off of going around speaking to corporate | interests? | | What about the government officials who put out the 9/11 | commission report, and were paid for it. Are they similarly | implicated by the act of self promotion? Or does that | distinction only apply to the janitors of the world? | PragmaticPulp wrote: | > I'm not sure how those things discredit the janitor. | | He claims there was a massive explosion that shook the walls, | caused part of the ceiling to cave in, and other significant | effects. The obvious source is the plane impact. If there | were multiple explosions of the magnitude he claims, surely | other people would have noted them. | | And of course, the standard conspiracy theory caveats apply: | Do you really believe that their was a massive conspiracy | perpetrated by experts who can coordinate such things at | scale, yet are also simultaneously so incompetent that they | forgot to wait until the plane impact to start demolishing | the building? | | It's nonsense. I highlighted the speaking tour to explain how | he has perverse incentives to be continue spreading the | conspiracy theory. | | EDIT: I removed a comment about common sense because it seems | to be distracting people from the actual comment | tommymachine wrote: | "Common sense" isn't that common. Do you also acknowledge | the perverse incentives of government bureaucrats to | promote _their_ story? | [deleted] | fighterpilot wrote: | > Do you really believe that their was a massive conspiracy | perpetrated by experts | | The conspiracy theory about explosives is even more idiotic | than that. It's not merely that the conspiracy would needed | to have been extremely complicated and involve 10s or 100s | of silent accomplices, which is true. It's also that it | would have been completely unnecessary and redundant, and | is therefore a violation of Occam's Razor. | | Whatever the purported political objectives behind the | conspiracy theory to put explosives in the towers, the | planes themselves should have been sufficient to achieve | those objectives, and so what motivation would there be to | tack on yet another entirely different conspiracy | (different in terms of operational details, skills | required, additional headcount, etc)? You're multiplying | the difficulty and complexity of the operation and | increasing the chances of getting caught by a good 2-10x, | for little benefit due to that redundancy. | | > Common sense discredits the story. | | They say things like "jet fuel can't melt steel", when | nobody even makes that claim. The claim is that the burning | jet fuel made the steel weaker. So don't expect them to | exercise common sense when they're insisting on these | strawmen. | mannanj wrote: | Common sense is a weak argument. | | common sense is only common sense when it's in the favor of | your narrative. In the other direction, it's not. Right? | | "Everyone knows the towers collapsed cause we studied it | for 10 years. Everyone still asking questions is a | conspiracy theorist. Common sense" vs "everyone knows that | jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt structural steel | cause we studied it for 10 years. Everyone still believing | otherwise is ... common sense." | | See my point here with your logic? | curtis3389 wrote: | Other conspiracy theory stuff in the ticker: thermite | conspiracy & something about ELTs going off before explosions. | Surprised the creator didn't cram a remote control box mention | in the ticker. | | I hadn't seen the ELT stuff before, and a quick and lazy google | didn't turn up a good debunking. Anyone have anything about | ELTs being picked up @ 8:44 AM and ~8:59 AM? | | I don't buy any of the conspiracies, just curious. The site is | really awesome, regardless. | PragmaticPulp wrote: | > I hadn't seen the ELT stuff before, and a quick and lazy | google didn't turn up a good debunking. Anyone have anything | about ELTs being picked up @ 8:44 AM and ~8:59 AM? | | I only did a quick search. Found this transcript where | someone mentions they saw a brief ELT blip on 121.5MHz: http: | //web.archive.org/web/20210718083443/https://www.nytime... | | A quick read of the ELT description ( | https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/aircraft/aircraft- | operations/e... ) shows that the 121.5MHz ELTs are associated | with a high number of false triggers: | | > In 2009, the international COSPAS-SARSAT satellite system | discontinued satellite-based monitoring of the 121.5/243 MHz | frequencies, in part because of a high number of false | signals attributed with these frequencies. | | Apparently the earliest 121.5MHz ELTs had a ridiculously high | false trigger rate of 97 percent, which explains why they | were deprecated: | | > Historically, these ELT's have experienced an activation | rate of less than 25 percent in actual crashes and a 97 | percent false-alarm rate. | | So if false triggers were a known issue and the ELT signal | was only seen extremely briefly, it's more likely someone | taking a common occurrence out of context. | mkr-hn wrote: | Acoustics are weird. Memory is weird. It's possible he heard | something of the explosion up top, mistook a reflected sound | for something closer, then had it change on him as he retold it | to himself and others until it was 40 seconds before and | _obviously_ close to the basement. | 0x456 wrote: | They should include C-SPAN coverage. | | https://www.c-span.org/video/?165916-101 | | https://www.c-span.org/video/?165959-2 | | The second link is a particularly disheartening time capsule of | political discourse that morning. | awrglkeh wrote: | 9/11 was an inside job. So is Covid. | Datagenerator wrote: | The resulting war took many more human lives [1] including | children who couldn't handle the White phosphorus munitions the | US military targeted them with. 1) | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War | chefandy wrote: | For a second I thought this might be an emulated machine like | http://oldweb.today has but it's clearly just a neat interface. | Nicely done. | ithinkso wrote: | Besides the whole 9/11 thing, if you have 'showdead' set, you see | the spam 'bot' in this thread. I always wonder if it's really a | bot or someone with a lot of time to waste but let's assume it's | someone real... do you know what their end game is? It can't be | propaganda because it's clearly a spam and no one read those. | Also, not many people respond to spam so I don't think 'dopamine | hit' is a part of it. | | Confusing | hhhhhrdcc wrote: | Can you link what you are describing? | ISL wrote: | If watching this footage makes you want to stand up and do | something, remember that Covid-19 is killing as many people in | the US every two days as died in these attacks. | | Take small steps to make the world a better place, helping your | neighbors, and you can take a stand against entropy. | awrglkeh wrote: | Government is not fucking entropy. | | Government brought down the twin towers. | | Government funded covid. | [deleted] | systemvoltage wrote: | > If watching this footage makes you want to stand up and do | something, remember that Covid-19 is killing as many people in | the US every two days as died in these attacks. | | Please. This is just going to create more toxic conversation | and politics. Can we just focus on 9/11 victims and mourne | peacefully? Rest of the top level comments here are sharing | stories about their personal experience. I know you mean well | but its the wrong place to bring this up. | chitowneats wrote: | Heart disease and cancer kill many more: | | https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm... | | Beware the myopia that sensationalist news coverage tends to | encourage. | | Never forget all the lives lost. Not just the 3000+ we lost on | that horrible day (RIP), but the millions more around the world | lost in the wake of the actions we chose, as a nation, to take | in the "war on terror". | polytely wrote: | Heart disease and cancer aren't contagious, so your actions | on that front will only improve your own life, while being a | bit more careful with covid will potentially prevent sickness | in a lot of people. | tommymachine wrote: | So heart disease and cancer don't take up ICU beds? | polytely wrote: | Not what I wrote at all. | | But to respond to your point(?) covid patients that get | sick enough to go to the ICU are there for a long time, | while heart patients get better (or die) significantly | faster, I recently heard an ICU doctor say on TV here | (the Netherlands) that a covid ICU bed could help up to 8 | heart patients, which makes it extra important to reduce | the amount of covid cases. | tommymachine wrote: | Do heart disease and cancer exacerbate covid conditions, | putting more people in icu (and for longer) than if they | didn't have those comorbidities? | polytely wrote: | Yes of course, just make your point already, this is not | a chat, try to write a complete post. | tommymachine wrote: | So you're not winning the argument to take away my | medical freedom, so now you want to tell me how I'm | supposed to post on here? Addicted to tyranny much? | polytely wrote: | >So you're not winning the argument to take away my | medical freedom | | That wasn't what I was trying to do at all, and I can't | really see how you could get that from my initial reply, | so I don't think we are going to agree on anything here, | have a nice day. | tommymachine wrote: | You haven't seen how the moral imperative to stop the | spread of that disease has been exaggerated well beyond | practicality, and used to remove citizens' ability to | consent to extremely profitable, taxpayer-funded medical | experiments? | | It's a pretty direct line from what you're saying, (a | moral imperative to "be careful") to what governments | around the world have been trampling over people rights | in order to do, which is lock down society, don't leave | your house, take the experimental shot under coercion, | etc. | | And the argument that destroys that propaganda is that | it's prioritized not because it's effective in a | utilitarian sense in saving lives, but because it's very | effective in giving certain people a lot more power, at a | great expense to the freedoms of other people. | | Maybe you weren't trying to say that, but that's the | reality of public discourse on this topic. The moral | imperative your are advocating for has been unilaterally | adopted by tyrants. | | You should take responsibility for advocating a position | that in effect removes people's rights. You won't do | that, because you'll run from every confrontation that | would show you this truth. | polytely wrote: | I'm from the Netherlands so not sure about the current US | situation, but: | | Firstly, Ok: I take full responsibility for advocating | for a _temporary_ reduction of rights to stop the spread | of a novel virus with the aim of reducing strain on the | healthcare system. I also think that we made the right | choice, waiting for EMA approval before starting | vaccinating. | | Right now here about 77% of the people (17,4 million) has | been fully vaccinated and everything except nightclubs | and big festivals has been reopened. I went to see The | Green Knight a couple of weeks ago, didn't need a mask, | or proof of vaccination/negative test. People haven't | died en-masse from the vaccines, so things are pretty | good right now. | | There is still a big backlog in delayed care right now, | so if the seasonal aspect of covid means we gotta | partially shut down some things the next winter, so be | it. | tommymachine wrote: | Are you aware that life itself is temporary? When do the | restrictions end? 2 weeks? 50% vaxxed? 100% vaxxed? How | many booster shots? How many cases? Is it just until | civilization itself is but a distant memory, then the | restrictions can end? | | Bad news: the restrictions last until the end of the | universe. | | Good news: the universe is only temporary! | orf wrote: | life is like, temporary dude. so like just ignore the | pandemic and like just focus on freedom man. masks are | for sheep and my personal freedom to be able to visit a | mcdonalds without a mask means more to me than the | potential side effect of indirectly killing someone. | | you see i don't care about the endless restrictions of my | freedom placed upon me post 9/11, i care about this | highly specific and politicised position the media i | consume told me to care about because i can score points | with the big bad other side! the side that thinks maybe | you should not sacrifice a non-trivial percentage of our | population without trying to restrict the spread of a | virus. | | but nah, don't think about all that, think about the big | bad medical experiment the big bad government is | subjecting us to, think about the endless restrictions to | our freedoms that definitely for sure 100% wont ever end | and worry some more about the biden administration coming | for my guns. fox news told me it's gonna happen any day! | tommymachine wrote: | Patriot Act is unconstitutional. You think I watch Faux | News? | | By the way, the first article on your site has nothing to | do with the title. You don't even mention lossless audio | format in the entire body, just pure UX gripes with the | app (design and bugs). | | You must be real smart though. Have you thought about | applying to work at the White House? | corpo_punisho wrote: | COVID is incredibly dangerous primarily because of how it | is spread, not primarily because sick people are taking | up hospital beds. | | The pandemic is first and foremost a health issue, not a | resource issue. | tommymachine wrote: | So the reports of "triage" problems and overwhelmed ICU | units is a fabricated issue? | heavyset_go wrote: | Fatality rates for COVID increase by an order of | magnitude when hospitals can't treat COVID patients who | would otherwise survive with proper care. | heurisko wrote: | I don't think that's true. Covid is dangerous precisely | because healthcare systems can be overwhelmed. | | If you receive care and have nocomorbid conditions, Covid | for most won't be dangerous, certainly not as dangerous | as the 1918 pandemic, which killed young people. | shkkmo wrote: | I think that there is a solid argument that the 1918 | epidemic would have killed far fewer people if they had | had modern treatments for respiratory distress. | toast0 wrote: | Heart disease and cancer have a steady demand for ICU | beds at a population level (maybe a little bit peaky for | heart disease around stressful times of year like DST | changes and family gathering holidays), so demand can be | forecast and supply can be adjusted over time to meet the | demand. | | OTOH, a pandemic with high peaks of demand is hard to | plan for. And having excess capacity on hand for such an | occasion is hard when everyone is always upset about how | expensive healthcare is. | chitowneats wrote: | Social contagion is real. The U.S. has much higher rates of | illness and death due to complications from obesity, | diabetes, high blood pressure, etc, than other developed | countries, because of our shared culture of poor diet and | sedentary lifestyle. | | You pass on your way of life to your children. Your friends | and family reinforce each other's decisions every time you | make a meal, make plans, etc. | | This stuff is all vitally important. And in fact, we would | have lower rates of covid fatality if a larger percentage | of our population took this seriously. | polytely wrote: | Fair point, but from a perspective of effort vs potential | lives saved, self-quarantining when sick, avoiding large | crowds & meeting in well ventilated spaces is probably | easier than adopting a healthier lifestyle. But yeah, we | should also live healthier! | chitowneats wrote: | Absolutely. Everyone should self-quarantine when sick. Is | it your sense that large numbers of Americans aren't | doing this? Anecdotally, I haven't seen a visibly sick | person, outside of my immediate family, in a long, long | time (needless to say, I don't work in a healthcare | setting). | | Arguably, retrofitting every important building in the | country to be well ventilated is a challenge on a similar | scale to changing our deeply ingrained unhealthy cultural | habits. | polytely wrote: | Not American (I'm in the Netherlands) so I wouldn't know, | but looking at the graphs it seems like there are a lot | of contagions happening. | | I was getting take out a couple of weeks ago and a woman | brought her coughing child to the restaurant, which | doesn't seem great, so I have noticed people being less | alert now that a significant portion of people has been | vaccinated here. | | >Arguably, retrofitting every important building in the | country to be well ventilated is a challenge on a similar | scale to changing our deeply ingrained unhealthy cultural | habits. | | Yeah, I hadn't looked at it that way, but that's indeed a | big task. | cornel_io wrote: | Lifestyle changes are really really hard for people to | make, though I agree that it would be great if someone | figured out a way to turn that tide. | | Luckily getting a shot is really really easy, so we do | have a lot of influence over deaths from COVID. | chitowneats wrote: | I agree with the point you've made. The OP I was | responding to in my first comment seemed to be suggesting | something more extreme than, "get vaccinated, and then go | live your life". | rkk3 wrote: | >Heart disease and cancer aren't contagious, so your | actions on that front will only improve your own life | | No, they inflict massive negative externalities on society | through healthcare. | | > while being a bit more careful with covid will | potentially prevent sickness in a lot of people. | | Classic Safety-ism. Even today, 20 years after 9/11 and we | are still paying a ludicrous price for this logic. | mensetmanusman wrote: | https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2007/07/obesity-is- | co... | | Actually there has been a lot of research showing obesity | as a social virus is contagious. | dillondoyle wrote: | Off topic, but is there any research that connects the | also burgeoning science of gut biome/bacteria to this? | Maybe a total crazy stretch, but if our gut bacteria can | be 'infectious', and if those bacteria have an affect on | weight, that'd be crazy. | inkblotuniverse wrote: | Obesity is socially contagious, and causes higher rates of | heart disease and cancer. | tylerhou wrote: | Heart disease and cancer are an aggregate of very many | diseases -- there are many types of heart diseases (stroke, | cardiac arrest, coronary artery disease), and many types of | cancers. COVID is a single disease that has killed many | multiples more than a single heart disease or cancer. | chitowneats wrote: | This is semantics. Taking just heart disease as an example, | all of the types that you mentioned are heavily influenced | by the same types of behaviors. Smoking, poor diet, lack of | exercise, etc. I addressed this in another comment | elsewhere in the thread. | tylerhou wrote: | Wearing a mask reduces COVID transmission by ~70% [1]. | Adding vaccination on top of that probably reduces | transmission to ~5% percent (just a guess). These are | almost free interventions. | | In contrast, heart disease and cancer are much more | expensive to mitigate. Regular exercise reduces the | incidence of some heart diseases for the average person | by about ~50% (estimating from the graph) [2]. We have no | cheap way of reducing cancer incidence (besides vaccines | for some viruses that cause cancer) -- for example, | intervening in cases of substance addiction is expensive. | | So even if your comparison was correct (it's not), how is | it relevant? Are you trying to argue that the government | should compel people to completely alter their lifestyles | before they should mandate masks or vaccines? That makes | no sense, because 1) preventing cancer requires mandating | vaccines and 2) the interventions are orders of magnitude | more expensive. | | Or, are you trying to suggest that the deaths of 650,000 | people (in the US) are insignificant because there are | some aggregate diseases that kill more? And therefore, | because we can't stop _all_ death, it 's pointless to try | to even mitigate _some_ death? | | [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/sci | ence-br... | | [2] https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.0 | 0000488... | [deleted] | hardwaregeek wrote: | If there was a vaccine that in one fell swoop (or rather two | fell swoops) reduced the mortality rate of heart disease and | cancer by 11x, I'd be shouting from the rooftops about it. | Until then, let's stop with the false equivalencies. | GongOfFour wrote: | You people. You'll never understand how arrogant you are. | badsoftware wrote: | Comparing an intentional attack on our nation to a global | pandemic is insulting. | hutzlibu wrote: | And maybe do not forget the >360 000 dead civilians the war on | terror has cost so far. Innocent bystanders, whose relatives | _now_ might feel a urge to join the real terrorists as the only | means for them to get revenge, too. Endless cycle. | | "War on terror" is just a ugly concept and not one that seem to | work. | | https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/911-civili... | | Oh and something that does not get too much attention, either: | | the taliban back then only refused to hand over Bin Laden | without evidence presented, that he indeed was responsible, | which at that time was not at all clear. And even till date, | there never was a proper criminal investigation and court | ruling about it all. Probably because of the Saudi connections. | yyyk wrote: | >do not forget the >360 000 dead civilians the war on terror | has cost so far. | | Most of them killed by the same people the US targeted. Funny | how all responsibility is always given to the West even when | the people doing the killing are their enemies. | | >the taliban back then only refused to hand over Bin Laden | without evidence presented | | Also after he publicly confessed, not to mention his previous | crimes. Their refusal had nothing to do with 'evidence'. | hutzlibu wrote: | "Also after he publicly confessed, not to mention his | previous crimes. Their refusal had nothing to do with | 'evidence'. " | | Source? | | Bin Laden initially declined responsibility, saying his | hosts the taliban, would not allow such a operation. | | (surely not out of being nice, but because of wanting to | keep the power) | | And later (after he confessed) the US was on full war with | the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden not with them anymore. | yyyk wrote: | >And later (after he confessed) the US was on full war | with the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden not with them | anymore. | | I'm referring to that, not to his preinasvion evasion. | | The Taliban didn't even cut relations with him or his | associates after he confessed, and they were not without | influence in AfPak. | | Surely the Taliban should have been very upset with their | 'guests' for getting them involved in Al-Qaeda's war, | right? Unless the Taliban knew from the start... | Obviously they did, since this wasn't Al-Qaeda's first | attack against America. | | As I wrote, there's little reason to give any credence to | their not knowing, and even if we did, there were plenty | of other things they should have given up Bin Laden for. | hutzlibu wrote: | "Surely the Taliban should have been very upset with | their 'guests' for getting them involved in Al-Qaeda's | war, right? " | | I am pretty sure, they were upset and maybe there were | actual heads rolling behind the scenes. But on the | outside, they had the US as common enemy. An enemy that | hit them both as hard as he could, without making any | difference. | | So of course at that time, talking about extradiction was | over. | | But the Taliban while at power _did_ made the civic offer | to extradict Bin Laden, if presented with evidence. | | So of course, it is not sure, if they actually would have | done it. Maybe they would have ended in a civic war by | themself over it. | | But we never knew, because the US choose to go the brutal | way. No evidence. No extradiction. Just war. | | Now 20 years later with the Taliban back in power and | stronger than ever, I can just say, awesome outcome with | this approach. | mcguire wrote: | The assassination of Ahmad Shah Massoud. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud#Assassin | ati... | yyyk wrote: | >I am pretty sure, they were upset and maybe there were | actual heads rolling behind the scenes. | | No evidence of it, and I find this entire debate odd. | | Again, the Taliban hosted a terrorist group which had | publicly declared war against America, and launched known | attacks - all this well known _before_ 9-11. What did | anyone expect this public antagonist group to do? Play | volleyball? | | If someone hosted a group called "Death to X" and the | group predictably attacked X, that someone shouldn't get | to claim innocence. Especially not after the nth attack! | | >Now 20 years later with the Taliban back in power and | stronger than ever | | A completely predictable result of the ideological way | the retreat was done. | [deleted] | tyingq wrote: | >Most of them killed by the same people the US targeted. | | That just sounds crazy given that our first retaliation for | 9/11 was Iraq. Which had nothing to do with 9/11, and | further...no "WMDs". | yyyk wrote: | This doesn't remove responsibility from Al-Q's Iraqi | associate - Al-Zarqawi - and his insane anti-everybody- | who-isn't-Sunni-Muslim war which directly bred ISIS. | [deleted] | adventured wrote: | > That just sounds crazy given that our first retaliation | for 9/11 was Iraq. | | The first retaliation for 9/11 was not Iraq. That's a | really bizarrely inaccurate claim. | | The US invaded Afghanistan and removed the Taliban from | control of the country by the end of 2001. Operation | Enduring Freedom launched in October 2001. | | The Iraq invasion was 2003. | | The US initially sent its special forces into Afghanistan | shortly after 9/11 to work with the Northern Alliance to | route the Taliban and pursue bin Laden, and then invaded. | tyingq wrote: | Yes, sorry, not the first. Too late to edit, | unfortunately. | [deleted] | maybelsyrup wrote: | > Funny how all responsibility is always given to the West | even when the people doing the killing are their enemies. | | It's barely ever given to the west, and never in major | media. And when someone in an anonymous internet comment | dares suggest we might be morally accountable for vast | amounts of innocent deaths - a trifle of a blip of a | nothing in the discourse - we can count on certain people | getting their feewings hurt and becoming overly defensive. | "I'm always being accused!" cried Tony Soprano. | | > No one knows with certainty how many people have been | killed and wounded in Iraq since the 2003 United States | invasion. However, we know that between 184,382 and 207,156 | civilians have died from direct war related violence caused | by the U.S., its allies, the Iraqi military and police, and | opposition forces from the time of the invasion through | October 2019. [1] | | [1] https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilia | ns/ir... | yyyk wrote: | >It's barely ever given to the west, and never in major | media | | You must be kidding, or never ever read any major Western | media. | | > And when someone in an anonymous internet comment dares | | Oh no. Someone disagreed with you on the internet. It's | horrible even thinking about this. Nobody should ever be | victimized like this. | adventured wrote: | A trifle blip? Hardly. It was exhaustively covered by the | largest media outlets in the US for more than a decade. | | It was a 24/7 talking point by everyone on the left | politically from the day the US invaded Iraq until the | day Bush left office. Across all forums, anywhere a | comment could be posted. | | Google: "nytimes iraq death count" or "nytimes bush iraq | civilian deaths"; or any number of dozens of variations | on that same premise. | | You must have missed the endless media parade about the | Bush death count, and deaths from drone strikes. The | headlines and discussion were everywhere across social | media, mainstream media, on blogs. | polytely wrote: | A couple of months ago I listened to the Air Traffic Control | recordings of the morning of the attacks, really puts in | perspective the confusion and chaos in the air that day. | | It's really haunting, includes calls from inside one of the | planes (I think the one who crashed?) so be warned. | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYBhgEm3j7A | haunter wrote: | News multiplex on Youtube, 6 channels in one video | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACUnXM5swn0 | eatsut wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - 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Killing is a serious act. But | removing a heretic, however, one of fierce barabarity and animal | savagery, one who spreads poison everywhere it goes, brings great | celebration and joy to all humanity. | | Kill them. Kill them all. Kill them to the very last man. Kill | their men, women, and children. Kill their unborned yet to leave | the womb. Kill them on the battlefield. Kill them in their homes. | | Injustice, victimhood, sympathy, charisma and celebrity means | nothing. Have some clarity. It's easy. Anyone who says different | is a crook vying for power. Don't listen to them. When we are | humiliated or horribly injured, can't contain their happiness, | and can't keep them away. | | Be blatant about it. Don't try to hide it. You are not fooling | anyone. Don't sidequest on keeping them alive. That only | validates their cynical superstiton. Let them talk far and wide | about what a horrible person I am. I want them to know the full | consequences of their actions. | | In the past 20 years, no terror attacks. Bin Laden, dead. | Zarqawi, dead. Baghdadi, dead. Saddam, dead. Their sons, dead. | Qaddaffi, dead. Mubarak, dead. Morsi, dead. Those people died as | the porcupine is quiled and the eagle who cares nothing for a | storm is feathered. In the past 20 years, we've wielded | hypersonic weapons, ballistic lasers, cyber weapons and military | branch for outer space. All stem from a culture that retires | weapons to the field, that reduces enemies, not creates them, | that limits the violence and seeks not to add to it. Life is | truly there for you and me to live it. We are not there for the | lives of others. | | Everyone else, the amoral criminals and ignorant heathens, do | everything they can to return humans back to the mud and jungle. | Our advancements and civilizations are only there for them to | gamify and laugh it, like we are the fools and cowards and | children. Imitation. Repetition. Theft. Slavery. Grinding up the | lives of others like it was their's to begin with. Their threat | hangs off their disgusting culture like decaying morbidity hangs | off the rotting dead. | | Oh, the world and what it could be if only they were not in | it!!!! | | Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill them all. | | KILL THEM!!! | justicezyx wrote: | Wow, such a big event in US and world history. Zero top level | comment reflects the historical missteps and lessons learned | during these 20 years. | | Guys, wake up. The world is changed and there is a reason. One | who cannot understand the momentum behind history, is destined to | repeat them. | bjt2n3904 wrote: | This is not the first comment to make such a remark. | | History does not editorialize. Especially primary sources: | simply portraying them is enough. People will come to their own | conclusions. People must think critically, and for themselves. | elkjer wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | parsecs wrote: | Is there a good way to download the video streams from this? I | would really like to keep an offline copy for myself. | chrisgd wrote: | Do not open on mobile | deadbunny wrote: | I opened it in Firefox Android and it crashed whatever the | android equivalent of the window manager process. Quite | impressive. | bal34t wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | notadev wrote: | I was in the Navy and had been at my first command at a nuke base | in the PNW. I walked to the galley for breakfast and they had | some TVs you could watch while eating. I watched the second plane | hit. I walked to work which was a telecommunications station. We | processed messages for different regional commands and would call | them directly whenever they had an emergency action message | (EAM). I walked in to a completely chaotic watch floor. Every | message was an EAM that day. Every phone was ringing or in use, | every computer that could alarm was alarming, our dial up modems | were constantly busy. All my coworkers were shouting and running | here and there. I had never seen it like that and as a young | Sailor it was very worrying. Everyone we called to inform them of | their EAMs would ask if we knew what was going on or knew if | someone was mobilizing but we were just as much in the dark as | everyone else. | | I remember at one point our Leading Chief Petty Officer (LPCO) | yelled for everyone to stop what they were doing and told us to | call our parents and loved ones to let them know we were safe. | That was the longest day I'd ever worked at that command and no | one left that day, even those from the previous night shift. The | fact that no one, even our CO, had any idea what was going | on...that the military was in the dark, was such an unnerving | feeling. | y53y wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | aceazzameen wrote: | Your LCPO is a good person. | justinzollars wrote: | This website is a really good resource. The thing I remember from | that day, I was 18, was that every channel on cable tv cut over | to news: MTV, VH1, History Channel, every channel. cnn.com | wouldn't load because it was being ddosed by all of the requests. | zuppy wrote: | i remember all the news websites switched to simple plain html | pages for a while, as their sites couldn't handle the traffic. | i still have a memory of a picture that i couldn't find again: | there was a never ending line of ambulances waiting, one behind | another. | w45hljlk wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | w54363u6 wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | bdcravens wrote: | > cnn.com wouldn't load because it was being ddosed by all of | the requests | | Slashdot was one of the few sites that was able to stay up | during that time, and it was struggling. Later in the day, CNN | ripped out all their HTML, and put up a super simple design to | optimize for staying up | tpmx wrote: | Google quite quickly put up links to manually cached pages | from e.g. CNN directly on the google.com start page. | | https://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/download/89. | .. | cmmiecock wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | lunchboxes wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So | Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | cultofmetatron wrote: | on this day several years ago, one of my mom's friends was on her | way home when a random white asshole rolled down his windshield | and screamed "Iranian bitch" at her. She was terrified and came | to our house. My sister was convinced that they were going to | start rounding us up. My dad put up a patriotic flag, not out fo | patriotism, but out of fear of retaliation by people who didn't | think we were patriotic enough. None of us are Iranian or middle | eastern but given the climate, everyone that even looked like | they could be from that region were terrified. | | Fun times, I think its a reason I generally like to stay outside | the united states these days. | mensetmanusman wrote: | Unfortunately these types of people are everywhere. My Grandma | grew up on an island of 100 and half were farmers, half were | fishers. She was on the fishing side and wasn't supposed to | even dare talk to the lower cast farmers... | scotty79 wrote: | My life partner died on 9/11. Not that 9/11. Two years ago. | Because of a brain tumor. | | That personal 9/11 will always overshadow for me the one that | this site is about. The one that from my point of view was a kind | of natural disaster caused by fifth elemental force, the force of | human stupidity. The one that triggered secondary wave of human | stupidity that toppled any illusion that USA is a righteous and | effective country that anyone could still have. Terrorists really | did hurt USA on 9/11 but 99% of the ultimate damage was self | inflicted. | cblconfederate wrote: | Almost everyone remembers what they were doing when the events | happened, a Flashbulb Memory. | | There's actually research on the specific memories of 9/11 : | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2925254/ | | Anyone remember what they were doing the next day at the same | time? | rcpt wrote: | In 2001 websites worked better than that. | montenegrohugo wrote: | Super small feedback: there's a typo on the landing page. | | synchronized instead of syncrhonized | nyx wrote: | To fix the broken timestamp in the upper right, open your JS | console and set timeZone.diff equal to your negative UTC offset. | | I'm in US Pacific Time, so I ran timeZone.diff = | 8 | codeulike wrote: | Metafilter was around back then, I wont link to it but its pretty | easy to find the metafilter thread from that day, its a way of | sensing the confusion that I remember from that day as events | unfolded. Reading through it I was suprised to see that the US | was sending cruise missiles into Afghanistan within about 9 | hours. | mynameishere wrote: | https://www.metafilter.com/10034/Plane-crashes-in-to-the-wor... | | Just to save people time and Metafilter's servers possible | wear-and-tear. | amznthrowaway5 wrote: | Why does 9/11 matter so much but not the many far more horrible | atrocities that the US regularly supports or commits (and that | 9/11 was partly a response to). Clearly some lives are considered | worth far more than others. | jeroenhd wrote: | I think it's because the USA was an incredibly safe country, | attacked seemingly out of nowhere (as far as the public was | concerned, at least) with ramifications that impacted every | country in the world. | | Covid does about a 9/11 every two days, but covid isn't | intentional. Bombs go off and kill innocent people all over the | world, but none of them kill this many people in a country | perceived safe. | | The overreaction that followed the attack on the towers helped | shape the mess in the middle east. It impacted public | perception on NATO. It started more government conspiracies | theories than any other event I can think of. | | If you're living somewhere outside the West or the Middle East, | then 9/11 probably has very little significance in your daily | life. Still, its impact on worldwide politics have shaped the | world we live in today. | | It's the same reason we still see the Tiananmen Square massacre | in the news. 3000 people died, but even though they were people | in a remote, (then) poor country that barely anyone outside | China had any personal reason to care about, the event changed | people's views all around the world. | w45hljlk wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | randunel wrote: | Welcome to the no-fly list, even on a throwaway. | mannanj wrote: | Unpopular question, how did a plane and jet fuel burn down a | steel reinforced building? | | I believe in the entire history of buildings built as the world | trade centers were, the only ones ever that burned down and | collapse are these. The only way as civil engineers have | explained it to me, that the buildings structural qualities could | have been compromised, are with additional heat sources besides a | jet and jet fuel. I'd love a civil engineer in this thread to | ELI5 this for me. | mjmsmith wrote: | > I believe in the entire history of buildings built as the | world trade centers were, the only ones ever that burned down | and collapse are these. | | How many of the other buildings were struck head-on by fully | loaded 767s traveling at 400+ mph? Is there any real-world | example to compare? | Bob67568584 wrote: | WTC Building 7 was _not_ hit by a plane, yet it somehow | spontaneously collapsed in a very curious way | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZiMG84hws0 | | EDIT: Of course, merely stating a plain objective fact, that | doesn't challenge any narratives or make any controversial | claims whatsoever, with a link to an AP archive video, will | be downvoted negative within minutes. You are not allowed to | even look at WTC7 collapsing. Don't even think about looking | at it! | deadbunny wrote: | https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a3524/42 | 7... | Bob67568584 wrote: | It's quite boringly predictable that someone would | immediately link to a conspiracy debunking article. I | have not mentioned anything whatsoever about a conspiracy | theory. I merely stated that it is "curious", which it | very much objectively is, no matter what else you choose | to believe about the event. | | Also interesting is that if you actually read the | official report that your link references, it does not | provide a detailed explanation of how the WTC7 building | actually collapsed. The event remains extremely curious | 20 years later. | | Edit: In response to the reply below: | | Yes they basically say "it collapsed because the fire was | hot and caused a critical column to collapse". It's a | childish level of explanation, not rigorous and | scientific. It says nothing about how such a thing could | occur. I've studied mathematics, physics, engineering at | university up to Bachelors level and to me this is a very | amateurish childish level of analysis. The report is | fluffed up with many pages of serious important looking | official boilerplate, surrounding this one paragraph that | basically says nothing. It's a tautology. No rigorous | analysis in this report. That in itself is extremely | curious to me. | deadbunny wrote: | The article literally describes what cause the building | to collapse. | | > After 7 hours of uncontrolled fires, a steel girder on | Floor 13 lost its connection to one of the 81 columns | supporting the building. Floor 13 collapsed, beginning a | cascade of floor failures to Floor 5. Column 79, no | longer supported by a girder, buckled, triggering a rapid | succession of structural failures that moved from east to | west. All 23 central columns, followed by the exterior | columns, failed in what's known as a "progressive | collapse"--that is, local damage that spreads from one | structural element to another, eventually resulting in | the collapse of the entire structure. | | Perhaps read more than the headline and you would not | think it so "curious". | Bob67568584 wrote: | Yes they basically say "it collapsed because the fire was | hot and caused a critical column to collapse". It's a | childish level of explanation, not rigorous and | scientific. It says nothing about how such a thing could | occur. I've studied mathematics, physics, engineering at | university up to Bachelors level and to me this is a very | amateurish childish level of analysis. The report is | fluffed up with many pages of serious important looking | official boilerplate, surrounding this one paragraph that | basically says nothing. It's a tautology. No rigorous | analysis in this report. That in itself is extremely | curious to me. | Crespyl wrote: | > It's quite boringly predictable that someone would | immediately link to a conspiracy debunking article. | | It's almost as if the only people still going on about | "interesting questions" regarding the destruction of the | WTC buildings after two decades of analysis and reports | are burner-account conspiracy theorists more interested | in fantastic cover-ups than in the ugly and "boring" | truth. | | It should indeed be no surprise that asking questions | like a conspiracy theorist gets you directed to | conspiracy theorist answers. | Bob67568584 wrote: | I'm not a conspiracy theorist and haven't put forward any | conspiracy theories. I am intellectually curious. | Apparently you have some kind of religious aversion to | curiosity. | neogodless wrote: | This is a pretty simple layman's terms explanation, and it was | also easy to find via Google.com. | | https://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.... | mannanj wrote: | Thank you. I'll check it out shortly. | mannanj wrote: | This is a very long and lengthy explanation, still requiring | much technical know how. Thank you for the explanation, but | Still seeking an ELI5. | tablespoon wrote: | > Unpopular question, how did a plane and jet fuel burn down a | steel reinforced building? | | That's the germ of a bunch of 20 year old paranoid conspiracy | theories, basically the 2001 version of COVID denialism. | | If you're asking a genuine question, there are decades-old | engineering analyses and all kind of layman's translations of | them that explain it. I'm sure they can be easily Googled. | mannanj wrote: | None of them ELI5, as I've originally asked. I'd love an ELI5 | perspective. Thank you. | _game_of_life wrote: | This is the best guide I've found: | | https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a50/1230517/ | | Goes into depth debunking most of the conspiracies I've | heard of. | | My best ELI5 for the one you are asking about: | | Does a bar of chocolate need to melt completely into a | puddle of liquid before it changes shape and becomes | softer? | | Of course not. The chocolate bar will become mushy and | deform before it becomes a liquid. | | Jet fuel burns at 800 - 1500 F, whereas steel melts at | 2750. | | But just like chocolate on a warm day, it loses its | strength at much lower temperatures. By 1500 degrees steel | is at less than half of its strength. | | Have you ever wondered how ancient civilizations managed to | melt metals, or create ceramics? After all, they didn't | have jet fuel yet! | | Well, when some kilns use wood as a fuel source, they can | burn at up to 2000 F! Wow! Isn't combustion neat? | | The WTC was full of flammable materials like wood, plastic, | rubber, and cloth. Jet fuel burns at 1500, but just like a | wood kiln, other sources of combustion can make things much | hotter. | | TL;DR - You don't need to heat something to the point of | being a puddle of liquid to weaken it. | mannanj wrote: | This was a great explanation. Thank you very much! | deadbunny wrote: | ELI5: While jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel | you don't need to melt it to weaken it. | mannanj wrote: | Sucks that my question was downvoted, as this was such a | great response and will now be buried. | leesalminen wrote: | 9/11 was my birthday, and I was just outside of NYC in school | that day. | | I was in math class. The phone in the classroom rang and my | teacher turned on the radio (1010 WINS) immediately. After | hearing what had happened she broke down in tears because her | husband worked in WTC. My parents worked in NYC (as did most of | my classmates' parents) and was very concerned. | | The school district evacuated the elementary schools to the gym | at the middle school because our town had a major dam and there | were concerns that could be attacked too, which would've flooded | the low-lying areas where the elementary schools are. Eventually, | school was dismissed and I ended up at my neighbor's house. Her | husband was a FDNY Captain. | | So many people I know died or were permanently harmed (physically | or mentally) that day. | | While nearly every second of that day is permanently etched into | my brain, there's one day that's even more vivid. My FDNY Captain | neighbor took me to ground zero in early November 2001. I'll | never, ever forget the smell of burning flesh and the hundreds of | firefighters using rakes looking for human remains. He told me to | never forget, and I never will. | dirtyfuackers wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | irrational wrote: | Thanks for writing this. It is good to hear the experience of | someone that was close by. I live clear on the other side of | the country (and did on 9/11 too). I didn't know anyone that | died that day, and to the best of my knowledge I've never met | anyone who lost someone that day either. So it is good for | those of you who did experience it to write about it since it | is so easy for people like me to be no more affected by it than | any other historic event that is far removed. | vmception wrote: | Oh yeah I forgot about all the confusion on what else would be | attacked! | | People should talk about that more. Every single piece of | infrastructure in the whole country was on people's minds and | locked down! | | Is there a documentary about that? There is so much possibility | for an "isolation thriller" where people's concerns in their | small towns are more the focus than the outcome of what | happened by the time the dust settled. | kristiandupont wrote: | I recall a big anthrax scare in the weeks following. Lots of | people were sending white powder to official addresses. | vmception wrote: | and the DC Sniper! if you were in that area | | Man that time period must have been so much harder for | adults than the teenagers at the time | slapfrog wrote: | > _Lots of people were sending white powder to official | addresses._ | | It turned out that anthrax came from a government lab, and | was supposedly sent by a single rogue employee... though | doubts linger. | | There were some hoaxes and bogus scares too though of | course. One of my classmates almost got suspended for | having foot powder in his gym bag.. thankfully cooler heads | prevailed when school officials realized the kid had | athletes foot and thought to doubt how a teenage boy could | have plausibly procured weaponized anthrax spores in the | first place. But yes, the hysteria was palpable. | vmception wrote: | The 21st century version of the White House would probably | look so awesome, if, you know, the thing happened | walshemj wrote: | Even outside the US - there was some of this. | | I was in Brighton Conference Centre (Uk) where Tony Blair was | due to give a very heavily trailed speech. | | After Tower one got hit we all went out of the main | auditorium - I then realized I had stupidly left my bag | unattended and had to go back and retrieve it. | | After tower two got hit a lot of us started to think what if | they have a plane targeting Tony and this building - though | its a grim thing to say the RAF QRA where armed | justinzollars wrote: | You get a sense of that feeling, from watching the various tv | stations on this thread. I had the radio on too, and you get | a real sense of the total confusion of that day. | [deleted] | sfblah wrote: | I've never seen this site before, but I noticed that it appears | to be questioning the official timeline and story at various | points. For example, it indicates that a janitor heard an | explosion first from the basement, not from above. I noticed a | few other elements like this as well. | diskzero wrote: | Watching the footage on this site reminds me of how I watched the | events unfold on 9/11. I was at work at Apple in IL2 (Building 2 | of the Infinite Loop campus.) People started getting calls on | their desk phones and co-workers coming in started to share the | news. An email came from Steve Jobs which I can't remember the | exact contents of. One thing the email did have, was a link that | was a live video news stream of the events unfolding. | | The campus entered a type of lock-down. The gates to the parking | garages were closed, the front-doors to the building were locked | and security blocked the entrances to the campus with their | vehicles. At the time, work was sort of my family so I didn't | consider that some people probably wanted to leave right away to | be with their loved ones. I assume they were able to do so with | some effort. | | Things obviously changed in the world that day. At Apple, the | underground gates to the garages were always closed and you had | to badge in. Security personnel were posted in the lobbies and | badging in and "tailgating" were taken very seriously. The doors | to the inner campus were now locked and you had to badge in and | out. These were all really minor things, but it made you realize | that things were no longer going to be the same as before. | acwan93 wrote: | How much of Apple's current security measures were a result of | 9/11? The parking garage, tailgating, and badging everywhere i | always thought were due to Apple's culture of secrecy. | diskzero wrote: | Apple's culture of secrecy used to be to just not talk about | what you were working on and don't talk about vapor projects. | There was a big thrill to keep things secret for MacWorld, | WWDC, whatever. Things changed, social media and various | websites created motivation for people to get whatever small | satisfaction you get when you leak. | | There was a big change after 9/11 of the overall security | posture. Internal security measures kept ramping up year | after year as people started leaking. You used to be able to | walk pretty much unhindered through all the buildings. Some | lab areas would be locked, but things were open in general. | | I never understood the leakers. They were usually caught and | fired. | rejectedandsad wrote: | > I was at work at Apple in IL2 (Building 2 of the Infinite | Loop campus.) | | You were at work at 6-7AM? | diskzero wrote: | Yes, I was that day. And I had probably been there since 6:00 | am the previous day. Pulling multiple all-nighters on various | "super important" projects was typical for me and others. In | retrospect, my advice is not to do such things, but it seemed | like a good idea at the time. | | The email and all the security events happened right after | the second plane hit, which seemed like it was closer to | normal start of day hours. | rejectedandsad wrote: | Fair, 2001 was a pivot point for Apple's history too. | dharmab wrote: | Wayback machine for some web news of the day: | | https://web.archive.org/web/20010911230123/http://www.nytime... | | http://web.archive.org/web/20010911204733/http://www2.cnn.co... | SilasX wrote: | I lost the link, and couldn't easily find it from Wayback, but | radio talk show host Neal Boortz would post his program notes | at like 7am eastern, and he had already posted by then that | "the big news of the day is Michael Jordan's announcement of | returning to the NBA". | | Naturally, he made a ton of updates to the page after the | attack, but left that bit and it was kind of funny to see that | over the 9/11 news. | w45hljlk wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - 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So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | sonicggg wrote: | It's crazy how influential this event would be on years to come. | It has this huge cascade of other events directly affected by it, | and it caused America to dump >1 trillion dollars on a compete | wasteland of a country. The US had this urge to do something | about it, but not sure what exactly. There were a lot of | seemingly irrational policies following 9/11. | | I still can't believe Bin Laden has not been named the Times | Person of the Year at the end of 2001. | skytreader wrote: | At the risk of diluting the discussion here, do we know where | they got the "TV Tuner" footage? I've been tuned to a channel | with "WJLA" at the upper left (I think, aka "ABC 7"---I don't | know I'm not American) for some time now; it started with a clip | that is related to the 9/11 attacks but after heaps of ads I'm | now watching relatively mundane news (traffic and weather | updates, anyone?). | | On one hand it's just impressive to me that they have this | footage and it made my curiosity itch. On the other hand, a | project like this can only gain from having verifiable sources. | So do we know how/where they got all these footage? | colmvp wrote: | Really fascinating project. It sent a chill down my spine as I | suddenly recalled being in school, both because of the videos as | well as the OS (we used Macs in art/design class). This was | before streaming and smartphones were around so the only way we | could see what was happening was by going into classrooms with | TV's hooked up. I don't think we had access to CNN but we | probably watched some American channel. I felt like the world was | going to enter a third World War, what with the immediate | connection to Pearl Harbor. It was impossible to continue doing | school work that day. | merdadicapra wrote: | > This was before streaming | | I was in my office 20 years ago watching the streaming from the | website of an Italian newspaper that was broadcasting the CNN | news channel. | | Streaming was already a thing in 2001. | timothevs wrote: | If anyone is confused about the BBC not syncing up with the other | news coverage, it seems like the creators did not take the time | difference into account. You will need to get to 13:59 GMT. | | On a personal note, that's the channel I was watching on that day | 20 years ago. Watching the exact same coverage again is just ... | unsettling. | vesinisa wrote: | Thanks. Yes, as European this was my source as well. I believe | I witnessed at least the collapse of the first tower live on | BBC World. | csomar wrote: | I was confused for a second. BBC was talking about the "migrant | crisis" when the second plane hit. | lmilcin wrote: | @dang, can we get the obvious spam crap removed somehow? Maybe | instantly hide or at least minimize dead content? | | Or maybe restrict discussion to people who get at least some | karma? | rastafang wrote: | The default is to hide dead content... i.e.: showdead: NO... | you must have changed the settings along the way | lmilcin wrote: | Oh, thanks! | radycov wrote: | Cool how about a tribute to the family of 10 killed (7 children) | by a reaper drone along with every one of hthe 700,000 afghans | killed by the petrdollar military industrial complex, or is their | skin too dark to be included in the narrative? | | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/world/asia/us-air-strike-... | jedberg wrote: | I had to stop watching this when it caught up to the part I saw | live. I live on the west coast, so I was sleeping when the first | plane hit. My mom for some reason was still up from the night | before and saw it on the news, so she called me and told me to | turn on the TV. | | I watched the second plane hit live on CNN. I then spent the rest | of the day on my couch watching CNN. My girlfriend was sent home | from work around noon and came to join me. | | I remember the confusion as to what happened and no one knew if | anything else would blow up. | | But the other day I remember just as clearly was September 14th, | 2001, because I flew on an airplane that day. | | The Jewish Holidays were starting on Monday, and my dad and I | were flying home together from the Bay Area to LA, and had a | flight from Oakland to Burbank. We were told to get there four | hours before our flight due to enhanced security, so we did. | | The airport was empty. Every airline was offering full refunds to | anyone who was scared to fly, and most people took them up on it. | My dad and I figured a one hour flight within California probably | wasn't going to be a target and decided to risk it. | | There were national guardsmen all over the airport open-carrying | rifles and handguns. After the metal detectors we had to do a | full pat-down and have all of our carry on luggage fully | inspected. But since the airport was nearly empty, we were | through all of the security in about 10 minutes. | | So we walked up to the airline counter to check in for our flight | (back when you still had to check in in-person at the counter) | and asked them if we could take an earlier flight. There happen | to be one leaving in 15 minutes, and the lady thanked us for | flying that day and put us on the flight. It was so empty we each | had a row to ourselves. | | Sept 14th, 2001. The best airport/flying experience I've ever had | in my life. | perryizgr8 wrote: | I was in my room, studying for some school test. My parents used | to let me study, while they watched TV after dinner. That night | they called me and showed the news to me. I recall it was CNN | they were tuned into, and the second plane hit the tower right in | front of my eyes. | kgeist wrote: | I was in middle school in Russia back then. I remember our | teacher dedicated a whole hour to watching and discussing the | news. It resonated because Russia was also experiencing acts of | terror by Muslim fundamentalists. It was way before USA and | Russia became enemies again. Two months later Putin would visit | Bush's ranch. | ScaryBashGhost wrote: | For anyone who doesn't consider themselves a conspiracy theorist, | but who still wonders how the hell 9/11 could've possibly | happened, I'd highly recommend the 2011 podcast episode "Who Is | Rich Blee?" [1] and the documentary "9/11: Press for Truth" [2], | both by Ray Nowosielski and John Duffy. They're both _critical_ | (as in thinking) without being unhinged -- no inside job shit, no | controlled demolition stuff, no "plane was fake". Just a close | look at the years and months leading up to 9/11, with some | terrific interviews with major players (Richard Clarke, Bush's | Counter-Terrorism "Czar"; Mark Rossini, the FBI agent assigned to | the CIA's Bin Laden Issue Station who was prevented by the CIA | from notifying the FBI that 2 of the 9/11 hijackers had multiple | entry visas to the US and were planning to travel there). | | The documentary's particularly interesting, as it follows the | efforts of four New Jersey women who lost their husbands in the | World Trade Center as they struggle to figure out what happened | that day. I hadn't realized that a "9/11 Commission" hadn't been | planned or even wanted by people in Washington, and that the | victims' families had to make a stink to get one created. | | [1] https://www.doubleasteriskmedia.com/rich-blee-podcast [2] | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KhQXKJCJ5Q | | [2] https://youtu.be/9KhQXKJCJ5Q | nyolfen wrote: | https://www.youtube.com/c/WTCFOIAVideos | blamazon wrote: | ^ since the commenter didn't explain what this is: | | Upscaled versions of dozens of angles of 9/11 footage that were | FOIA'd out of the NIST investigation into the buildings' | collapse. | | A while ago I went on a binge and watched all of them. If | you've only seen footage from news, mainstream documentaries, | even at the 9/11 museum in NYC, there's things you haven't | seen, awful terrible things, in a level of video quality that | leaves no ambiguity for what you're seeing. | | Horrifying stuff, I don't recommend it if you don't want the | images to stick in your brain forever. | eatsut wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | dragontamer wrote: | > Horrifying stuff, I don't recommend it if you don't want | the images to stick in your brain forever. | | Except with all the 9/11 truthers, its helpful to have those | images memorized. | | The way the towers fall, how the planes hit, everything. The | "truthers" will suggest alternative-truths, but if you | remember the images perfectly, you'll quickly find holes in | their arguments. | reginold wrote: | Stuff like this makes me wonder if in the future there are entire | planets where life is simulated virtually. "Live through the 90s" | planet. | | Would be interesting to have an entire website like this where | you can tune to any day and hear the news. And eventually more | than just media. | peterlk wrote: | Sounds like you should read Hyperion! Such a good series... | [deleted] | kafkaIncarnate wrote: | > Would be interesting to have an entire website like this | where you can tune to any day and hear the news. And eventually | more than just media. | | When you mix archive.org Wayback Machine and the back footage | of many of the news networks have with their giant software | platforms, I'm sure that most news editing rooms are already | like this. Probably just a matter of time/infrastructure until | we all get a chance to access such things, assuming we don't | fall to entropic decay. | | I think you'd have to solve the "unified theory" physics | equation before you could predict where all particles were in | the past, though. So like rewinding and seeing where I am right | now and what is happening in my life (or yours). That one I | personally am not entirely sure can be accomplished. | | There is a Babylon 5 episode about this, though, in season 5. | Takes place millions of years in the future. | sharkweek wrote: | I sometimes forget how surreal that day was. Was in high school | at the time and sort of at "that age" where the world was still | pretty small and revolved around me. | | Mom waking me up to say "you need to watch this," with the TV on | and both towers are on fire. The morning variety newscasters | breaking their household familiarity speaking in a frightening | shock that was so out of character. | | Still went to school that day and there was a big assembly and | then we sort of carried on as normal through motions. I remember | every week on Tuesday we had to turn in an analysis of a world | event for one of our classes and mine suddenly felt so | insignificant compared to the attacks (kinda wish I remember what | I had written). | | I think the pandemic has far more historical significance but | nothing for me will feel more visceral than 9/11. I appreciate | this is likely a very _American_ -centric perspective but it's | how I feel. | dharmab wrote: | There are very few days in history where so much changes in a | single day. There's a very clear "before and after". | | In my opinion, the 1990s began on Nov 9 1989 and ended on Sep | 11 2001. | TedDoesntTalk wrote: | Yes. I remember very well President Bush saying these attacks | will not change America. I wish I could find a quote. | | One of the things it changed dramatically was air travel. | Remember meeting family/friends at their arrival gate as they | walked off the plane? Remember getting through "security" in | a few minutes because the lines moved so fast? | | In the 1980s and early 1990s, my father routinely | disassembled pistols and put them in his checked luggage so | he could target shoot at his destinations. Imagine doing that | today. | jakebasile wrote: | You can still check firearms for air travel. It's actually | a great way to ensure your bag doesn't get lost. | | You have to go to the ticket agent, and say I need to check | a firearm. There's a little red ticket form you fill out | and place on your bag. Then you take it to a special drop | off. It has to be in a locked hard case that only you can | open. | | See also: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms- | and-ammunit... | [deleted] | kjellsbells wrote: | The historian Eric Hobsbawm once wrote that the 19th century | didn't end until the cataclysm of 1914, and that the 20th | finished early with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989. | I think 1990-2001 was an innocent decade and the 21st century | started on 9/11. | pbourke wrote: | > I think the pandemic has far more historical significance | | I'm not sure about that. Without 9/11, there would be no wars, | perhaps no Obama, etc. It altered the arc of history in a | profound way. | | The recent Frontline episode "America after 9/11"[0] draws a | through-line from 9/11 to the events of Jan 6 at the U.S. | Capitol. | | [0] https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/america-after-9-11/ | fit2rule wrote: | America was fighting its heinous illegal wars prior to 9/11. | HWR_14 wrote: | It's a little disingenuous to use 20 years of history to say | it's a more significant event and then using the follow on | results. In another 18.5 years, people could be talking about | how the pandemic triggered the second US Civil War, or led to | a complete reimagination of US race relations, or ushered in | a communist takeover or something. | mannanj wrote: | How are you supposed to figure out if an event is | significant or not without looking at its historical | significance on the years to come? | Sebb767 wrote: | I think this was exactly the point, you can't say one | event was large due to the aftershock if the second event | isn't even over (and therefore has its history yet to be | written). | rebuilder wrote: | I'm not sure at all the pandemic is going to be more | significant historically. The 9/11 attacks did what Al-Qaeda | intended them to - got the USA mired in an expensive, | unwinnable war, which ultimately broke the US will to fight and | seems to have resulted in a major reconfiguration of US foreign | policy. | teawrecks wrote: | I believe a lot of the phenomena we see today, rampant | conspiracies, misinformation, distrust in govt, political | divisiveness, willingness to support a demagogue, rise in | nationalism and domestic terrorism, can all be linked back to | 9/11. | | The goal of the attack was to strike fear into the hearts of | Americans on a level that we simply couldn't comprehend, a | lasting fear that fundamentally changes our society, a fear | that individuals in the war-torn middle east had already | lived with for decades up to that point. And I think it's | clear that they accomplished their goal. Unfortunately, I | also think it's clear we haven't seen the end of it. | bellyfullofbac wrote: | All those things you write in the 1st paragraph, I wonder | if it's 9/11 or the continued spread of Internet access. | Previously if you thought the earth was flat, your friends | in school or work would laugh at you. Nowadays you can | google anything and find a community totally into that | idea, and they are indeed communities because they'll | quickly indoctrinate that the rest of society/big | government/the secret elite cabal are prosecuting them for | their beliefs, so they'd have to support each other.. | teawrecks wrote: | Oh yes, definitely the internet plays a huge roll in the | world we have today, probably a bigger roll than 9/11. | Humanity has seen and adapted to large scale tragedies | before, but this is the first time we've had the | internet. But of all the variables, 9/11 is a big one in | the US. It also showed the media and advertisers how much | more money there was to be made from these events. Ever | since 9/11 the news media has been hard at work | developing new ways to milk sensationalism junkies the | same way that mobile companies milk gaming addiction | whales. | telesilla wrote: | Let's wait a while. The long term effects of the pandemic are | yet to set in. | SilasX wrote: | There's the joke that you can say the same thing about the | French Revolution ("too early to tell"). | rebuilder wrote: | I see your point, but I have a hard time imagining how, 20 | years down the line, we could point to the SARS-COV2 | pandemic as a principal cause of historic change the way | the 9/11 attacks were. Contributing factor? Sure, I'm sure | it'll have all kinds of downstream effects. | anonfornoreason wrote: | Just imagine what a whole generation of kids will grow up | to be like as a result of the social changes that have | played out directly due to the pandemic. Definitely a | large inflection point. Maybe the changes will be subtler | but I would be shocked if we didn't have noticeable, | analyzable changes to the course of history based off | that alone. | ls612 wrote: | Imagine masks, distancing restrictions, etc becoming the | knee jerk response every year there's a bad flu scare or | something like the Ebola cases in 2014 happens. This | pandemic will be remembered not for the virus but for the | massive and permanent social changes it brought to the | west. | Sebb767 wrote: | Also: Home office, redistribution of wealth, climate | impact and not to forget the financial impact. Plus | possible long covid problems in a large share of people. | There's a lot we will 'enjoy' for a long time. | farmerstan wrote: | This. | | Al qaeda won. They destroyed the way of American life before | 9-11. We are a different country now. So much government | control over the last 20 years because of the 9-11 like TSA, | Patriot act, massive government surveillance all in the name | of "Homeland Security". | | Anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers exist precisely because of | 9-11. The distrust from all of the secret government acts is | only part of the equation. | | The trillions funneled into the military complex has starved | the education system. We have literally produced idiots | across the US because of a horrible educational system. They | can't think critically because they don't have to. So 20 | years of this, and you have a large percentage of the | population that are literally stupid and can't think | critically. They would rather die than take a vaccine or wear | a mask. This is what happens when you spend money on the | military and illegal wars than the education of your | population. | | The pandemic is terrible. But 9-11 destroyed the US and put | us on a horrible path that we may never recover from. | IAmGraydon wrote: | I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted. What you're | saying is accurate. I don't think the terrorists had the | foresight to predict this kind of fallout from 9/11, but it | has certainly happened none the less. | rebuilder wrote: | Bin-laden directly stated Al-Qaeda's goal was to bankrupt | the USA. [1] Now that's not what literally happened | obviously, but adjusting for propaganda hyperbole and | considering he went on to elaborate that they intend to | do to the USA what they did to the Soviets - make the war | too costly to be worth fighting - it seems their strategy | panned out pretty well. | | Of course, I don't know that they could have predicted | the US invasion of Iraq, for example. On the one hand, | Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but OTOH Al-Qaeda might | have foreseen that the US leadership would not let a good | crisis go to waste. | | Maybe the main plan was just to fight in Afghanistan, | where they know they can carry out guerilla warfare | indefinitely, and whatever else shakes out is probably | going to play into Al-Qaeda's pocket anyway. | | Really the main victory Al-Qaeda and other Islamist | terror groups have won is being able to frame the | discourse around their atrocities as Islamic terror. It | creates tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims, which | leads to oppression of Muslims, which increases | recruitment. In this dynamic, the worse the terror groups | are, the more adherents they gain. | | 1: https://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binlade | n.tape... | fighterpilot wrote: | A lot of these 'idiots' that you're talking about were | educated prior to 9-11, so it's not obvious to me that 9-11 | had the particular causal relevance that you're suggesting | (at least insofar as educational quality). | tamaharbor wrote: | Al Qaeda won the first time they made me take my shoes off | at the airport. | dxdenton wrote: | Your first paragraph laments the expansion of government | control and surveillance triggered by 9/11 (which I agree | with), but in your next, you use pejoratives to identify | people who choose not to get a vaccine or engage in hygiene | theater. How would you classify the bully tactics being | used by the current administration to coerce citizens into | getting a vaccine? This is yet another example of | government control and overreach. In this case, gov't is | violating personal health (rather than privacy), and the | justification is "public health" instead of "homeland | security". | | > Anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers exist precisely because of | 9-11. | | This statement is non-sense. I'm old enough to remember | 9/11. I lived closed enough to watch the smoke rising from | the towers. I assure you, my choice to not get the C19 | vaccine (and refusal to wear a mask) have nothing to do | with the events of 9/11. | | The term "anti-vaxxer" is derogatory, and is being used as | a demeaning caricature. I don't fit your stereotype. I am | not getting the C19 vaccine. That does not mean I am | against all vaccinations. A person can believe in the | effectiveness of vaccines, and decide against getting THIS | vaccine (imagine that). Terms like "anti-vaxxer" are used | to demonize those (such as myself) who have decided not to | get the C19 vaccine. I guess classifying people as "anti- | vaxxer" helps people like you justify calling them | "literally stupid." | | > We have literally produced idiots across the US because | of a horrible educational system. They can't think | critically because they don't have to. So 20 years of this, | and you have a large percentage of the population that are | literally stupid and can't think critically. | | I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. The irony is | that, based on your comments, you'd consider me "literally | stupid", and I would say your critical thinking are | severely lacking. | | > They would rather die than take a vaccine or wear a mask. | | I can assure you that if contracting COVID-19 meant certain | death, the government would not have to spend millions on | propaganda to convince people to get the C19 vaccine. | Contracting C19 does not imply certain death: I know this | first-hand, anecdotally, and it is backed by statistics | published by the CDC (for whatever those are worth these | days). In other words, for the overwhelming majority of the | population C19 is no worse than the flu. For those with | pre-existing health conditions, the risks are greater and | the vaccine is a godsend. I won't address the mask fallacy. | If you want to wear a mask, by all means. I am not one to | pull a binky out of a child's mouth -- whatever it takes to | get people to get out and live their lives. | | The fact that you jump to the conclusion that "everyone who | does not get vaccinated or wear a mask is stupid" does not | reflect well on your critical thinking skills. As I've | explained above, there are legitimate reasons for not | getting the vaccine. Maybe a better approach is to give | others the benefit of the doubt, and attempt to engage in | meaningful conversation? We likely won't agree on | everything, but maybe I'd convince you that people who | decide against the C19 are not all "literally stupid". | op00to wrote: | To not take a vaccine that would save your life because | the government told to you is exactly the type of stupid | behavior I expect from stupid people. | david_draco wrote: | Anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers, government mistrust are hardly | unique to the last 20 years. | | What destroyed American life were Americans, being scared, | thoughtless and not talking to each other, in the name of | money, absolute security, patriotism and tribalism. | SilasX wrote: | > I think the pandemic has far more historical significance but | nothing for me will feel more visceral than 9/11 | | It's an interesting comparison, and one I make a lot. 9/11 was | in your face, and a bunch of pre planned events were canceled. | But that lasted about a week or a month (depending on the kind | of event), and people could still gather in public and support | each other. | | The pandemic was a much slower burn, but also denied us even | the ability to gather and required much bigger changes to daily | life. | listenallyall wrote: | The pandemic hasn't denied "us" anything... governments have | mandated it, in many cases without scientific evidence, or in | many others, in direct contradiction to it. Things cancelled | in the wake of 9/11 were done organically, by the organizers, | mostly out of respect, not because the government twisted | their arm. | FartyMcFarter wrote: | > I think the pandemic has far more historical significance but | nothing for me will feel more visceral than 9/11. I appreciate | this is likely a very American -centric perspective but it's | how I feel. | | It's not as American-centric as you might think; I'm not from | the US but after 9/11 and for several years, I had recurring | nightmares about trying to escape from a building that got hit | by a plane. | | I can't imagine what it was like for people closer to it. | strenholme wrote: | To get a sense of how our nation felt in the wake of the 9/11 | attacks, the mail column Jerry Pournelle (R.I.P.) had at the time | gives a very good perspective: | https://jerrypournelle.com/archives2/archives2mail/mail170.h... | | "yes, we are at war. This is our generation's Pearl Harbor." | post_break wrote: | All I can think of is the people in Afghanistan when asked about | 9/11 had never heard of it. We were attacked and then went after | the wrong people. | arminiusreturns wrote: | While that is certainly one of the narratives the deep state | loves to be touted, it's simply not true. One of Bushes first | actions as POTUS was to request a plan to attack the Taliban. | The plan was written in June and was on his desk on Sep 4. | | We went after who the oligarchs who control our country wanted | us to go after. The idea that it was a response to the attack | was merely for keeping the public sedated and military/mercs | fired up. | | Solving 9/11 solves the war on terror. (most people don't have | the stomach for ugly truths though) | | Ask yourself, who trained the Mujaheddin in the first place? | What foreign dignitary was allowed full access and use of | Charlie Wilson's office? | heavyset_go wrote: | I lived just outside of NYC when this happened. I'll leave it to | others to explain what that was like. | | What stuck with me was the eeriness of the serene skies after it | happened. There are several international airports in the | vicinity. There wasn't a plane in the sky afterwards, and the | usual contrails were absent. | | I didn't see something like that happen again for about another | 20 years until the first wave of COVID hit and essentially | shutdown air transport. | koboll wrote: | Cool site, but the News Ticker is absolutely infested with | debunked 9/11 truther "evidence". (Go to the point where the | first plane hits and the point where each tower collapses, and | you'll see what I mean.) | | The whole thing kinda seems like a sly attempt by a truther to | indoctrinate schoolkids. A little distasteful. | boomboomsubban wrote: | A lot of the "truther" nonsense came from the day of the attack | when nobody really had any idea what the hell was happening. It | wasn't immediately clear that a plane hit the first tower to | cause the damage, it wasn't clear it was an attack and not an | accident until the second plane hit, and it wasn't clear the | planes alone caused the collapse for days at least. Hell, for | like an hour the Pentagon attack was considered either a | potentially unrelated fire or a missile attack. | | It's unfortunate that this at the moment reporting can | reinforce conspiracy theories, but maintaining the uncertainty | felt during the day provides a benefit. Much of the day was | filled with shock and confusion, with everybody watching the | news to try and figure out what was happening. | tpmx wrote: | I had to change my OS timezone to UTC-6 (Central US) to get the | timestamps in the web app to match up. | [deleted] | fredoralive wrote: | The BBC World feed seems completley out of sync as well, as if | they used the BST times as if they were US east coast time, so | it's like 5 hours behind everything else? | mrweasel wrote: | Mine is completely weird, it says it's after 3PM but the videos | is about all sorts of random stuff. | eatsut wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | macksd wrote: | Thank you! I appear to be an hour out of sync and my OS is on | Mountain Time | Tenoke wrote: | I was 9 and angry that they interupted my tv show to show news | (adult stuff) from the other side of the world. 20 years later | and I have a better understanding of the situation but in a lot | of ways I think everyone reacted and keeps reacting just how the | terrorists wanted. | | It's tragic but if this wasn't in America I likely wouldnt have | even heard about the event nor would it be influencing my life | this much later due to the ways others have reacted to it. I hope | this doesn't read as disrespectful. | [deleted] | asib wrote: | > It's tragic but if this wasn't in America I likely wouldnt | have even heard about the event nor would it be influencing my | life this much later due to the ways others have reacted to it. | I hope this doesn't read as disrespectful. | | I definitely agree to an extent with the sentiment of this - | there are numerous attacks in recent times across the world | that have killed hundreds of people each and they generally | receive very little coverage. However, I also think it perhaps | downplays the significance of the WTC attack. 9/11 is still the | deadliest terrorist attack in history by quite a significant | margin according to [0]. I'd be surprised if a similar event in | another country was not covered by world news outlets. | | [0]: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_and_other_viol... | Tenoke wrote: | >I'd be surprised if a similar event in another country was | not covered by world news outlets. | | Well, I haven't really heard of the 2nd and 3rd one (though | hard to compare) on the list and I doubt they've gotten even | 1% of the coverage. | Sebb767 wrote: | Especially considering that the 3rd one happened in | November 2020. It's not like this was years ago and might | be forgotten; we all were around then. | benatkin wrote: | This is not unlike comparisons of 9/11 to the pandemic. The | buildings (and NYC skyline) aren't as important as the lives | that were lost, but it causes a different and more prolonged | response. And it isn't just "look what those terrorists did", | it's "I can't believe those buildings are gone". | | Saying they're gone reminds me of Mark Pilgrim's 410 Gone | incident. It's analogous to me. | cududa wrote: | I was 10. My classroom "job" was to take the attendance to the | office. No one was in the main office, I could hear them in the | back room so I wandered back. I got there right as the first | tower came down. The way all the adults were screaming, was | clear it wasn't a movie. I stayed for a few minutes listening | to the news anchor going over the events of the day before | being sent back to class and told not to tell anyone. | | My fifth grade teacher, who I'm still friends with today, said | she'd never seen a kid with that look. She eventually got me to | tell her what happened. I guess I said something like "Americas | being bombed. The big building in New York is on fire and the | other one fell over and the pentagon blew up." | | I don't remember saying that, but I do remember how furious she | was at me saying that was a horrible story to make up. We had | TV's in each class, she was going to turn on the news to show | me it wasn't true, begged her not to. She called the front | office, couldn't get through (assuming they were still watching | TV). | | She went on her computer, started crying. Composed herself, | dropped whatever we were learning that day and she put on The | Princess Bride - still can't enjoy that movie. | | She let me sit behind her desk and we'd attempt to refresh | websites to get updates on what was happening, both of us | occasionally crying. | | They didn't send us home for a few hours, but it's always been | a weird feeling knowing that of all the 600+ kids in that | school, I was the only one that knew what was happening, and | only a handful of adults did, the rest going about their day | without just sitting there knowing what was happening. | | Her and I are still friends to this day, that experience really | bonded us. She'd suspected I was on the autism spectrum, my | parents wouldn't get me evaluated, and school was pretty rough | for me. I'd have been held back in multiple grades, possibly | not even graduate if she hadn't gone to bat for me with every | "problem" teacher I had at various schools in my district year | after year, getting me put in "good" teachers for various | subjects, getting me into advance classes even though my grades | hadn't previously warranted it, etc. | | No idea where I'd be in life had I not wandered into the back | office, and her and I had that experience. | stjohnswarts wrote: | Nice idea. I personally can't go back to that day via something | like this but I appreciate the historical necessity for such | things in the age of the internet and information. | baxtr wrote: | I remember sitting on the other side of Boston Harbour on the eve | of September 11th, watching planes start and land while drinking | a beer. I have often thought: please, god, take me back to that | evening, let me call the police and tell them what will happen | the next day. Then I think: they wouldn't have believed me anyway | and arrested me instead. | | I will never forget the days of chaos that ensued. Boston is | close to NYC. We knew back then that things would be very | different from then on. For at least a year I would open news | pages and except something terrible terrible until that fear | faded slowly over time. | 911inside wrote: | 9/11 Was an inside job. So is covid. | bdcravens wrote: | I'm actually seeing events I missed in real time - I was up | overnight working. I worked for Sabre HR at the time, and kept | going up to the office to run a massive PDF generation process | for our performance reviews. (It was a terribly leaky VB | process). I didn't wake up until after it happened, so I was | hearing about it on the drive into the office. We all went home | before noon. Within days the software we were writing for bonuses | etc was for naught, as our stock price was crushed (Sabre came | out of American Airlines, focusing primarily on travel agency | software and Travelocity). Within a month I was let go (I was a | contractor) | GongOfFour wrote: | Were you in the Trophy Club offices then? | eatsut wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | anonymousiam wrote: | Was in a Beijing hotel and not sleepy so I turned on the TV. I | could not believe what I was seeing and first thought it was a | movie. After flipping through a few channels I realized it was | real. I woke up my wife and told her that we were at war. We were | stuck in China until flights resumed. | danielovichdk wrote: | Being old enough to remember this very vividly. | | Sitting in an office in Denmark - the world did change. | | All the political acts around terrorim that followed has been a | sad experience. | | I never truly believed in these Arabs was clever enough to pull | of this stunt, and the amount of missing evidence from that date | is to much. | | Sad day to remember but even more sad that people still don't | demand answers | mannanj wrote: | I agree. I believe these were similar operations with psyops | incorporated like the CIAs mkultra, interventions and | assassinations in Spanish countries where it instilled | dictators to encourage democracy, and even the covid psyops it | is participating in today. | mannanj wrote: | Examples: https://listverse.com/2013/05/25/10-dirty-secret- | cia-operati... | mannanj wrote: | Related to what's likely going on with COVID today: | | Operation Mockingbird was a bit of a two-pronged approach | to dealing with the media: on the one hand, journalists | were routinely employed by the CIA to develop intelligence | and gather information, or to report on certain events in a | way that portrayed the US favorably. On the other, there | were actual plants within the media--paid off with bribes | or even directly employed by the CIA--to feed propaganda to | the American public | [deleted] | mastersummoner wrote: | I went to Stuyvesant high school, and graduated in 2000. Stuy was | a few blocks from the trade center, and I had friends who were | still in high school that day. I knew people who saw the first | plane fly in. | | Was a bad day. There was a part of me that felt a weird guilt for | not being there. Like, as a lifelong New Yorker, the trauma was | part of my birthright somehow, and being away for school made me | feel strangely removed when I felt like I should be feeling it in | my bones. | | My mother had PTSD for a good while afterward, and she lived way | uptown from the trade center. | | Was a bad day. | knaik94 wrote: | I was in elementary school at the time 11 miles away, just across | the river, in NJ. They really didn't want us to see the news so | they took all of us into the main auditorium and had us just sit. | A few of the parents of the other children worked in the city. | They made it an early release day. | | One of my parents worked close by my school and my cousin lived | close too. Her house had a clear line of sight to the towers with | some binoculars. I remember seeing little black dots fall out of | buildings and I remember wondering if they were chairs. I am | older now and understand it was people. I missed the collapse of | the first tower but saw the second fall through the binoculars. | | A lot of my classmates didn't show up for a few days. I didn't | understand the gravity of what had happened until was quite a bit | older. | walrus01 wrote: | Is there a way to download or mirror some, or all of this? | w45hljlk wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | arcticbull wrote: | They put "About" in the Help menu?! | | Jokes aside this is an incredibly well executed visual, and the | throwback to the MacOS 8 era of my high school (where I was when | this was happening) adds meaningfully to the impact. | jokethrowaway wrote: | I'm impressed at how to little the States achieved since 9/11. A | lot of war expenses with little results and now an even stronger | Taliban, parading with US army war machines. | | I remember a joke from 20 years ago: It's 2021, a son and a | father are walking in front of Ground Zero and the father says | "... and here the World Trade Center was standing, before it was | destroyed on 9/11 by Arab terrorists" "But dad, who are the | Arabs?" | | I guess 10 year old me didn't know how incompetent and/or | corrupted by oil money our leaders are | bob229 wrote: | Why the unusable interface | davidw wrote: | I'm old enough to have pretty vivid memories of watching a lot of | this live. I don't really want to relive it. Keep the memories | alive? Certainly. But rewatching? Too much. | | Also, while we can't change the past, we're facing a massive | challenge that is devouring thousands of people on a daily basis; | let's commit to doing everything we can to defeat that particular | monster. That is something we can all help with, in our own way. | dotancohen wrote: | > But rewatching? Too much. | | I remember seeing the SRB trails of OV-099 in the sky. Twenty | years later it was possible to rewatch that on Youtube, but I | couldn't bring myself to do it. | | But by now, I've watch that video and a few documentaries. I | had no personal loss on January 26 1986, but it still took some | time for me to be able to digest it. And I'm glad that I did. | davidw wrote: | Came in to my 5th grade elementary school class and found my | teacher crying. She'd made it through several rounds of the | selection process to be on board the Challenger. | | I don't like to watch that either, but... at least it was far | fewer people, who had also signed up to take a risk, and it | was a case of negligence rather than malice. | fu34t wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - 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So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | sweetbitter wrote: | Well, some of us never saw it in the first place. | neltnerb wrote: | I'm with you, I remember watching these when I left my very | first physics lecture as a freshman. I have no trouble | remembering it, so I assume this is mostly for people who have | never seen it. | siva7 wrote: | somehow this makes me feel old... | reginold wrote: | Heck yeah! What are you doing to help? I'm pretty exhausted at | this point, hard to focus. | davidw wrote: | Nothing exciting or noteworthy: staying home, avoiding | crowds, wearing a mask, have my shots. Trying to be extra | kind and friendly with people in places like supermarkets, or | teachers. Supporting our school board that takes it seriously | and is implementing science-based precautions. | tommymachine wrote: | Really cool resource. Small nit: the time in the upper right hand | corner being off by an hour is killing me (not literally). | photochemsyn wrote: | When reviewing 9/11 attacks (likely the biggest and most | disastrous intelligence failure in U.S. history, give or take | Pearl Harbor), it's worth remembering that it could have been | much worse. If the first plane had hit Indian Point nuclear | reactor what, 30 miles from NYC and upwind? It's likely a | Chernobyl/Fukushima disaster would have resulted with an | exclusion zone well into NYC. That was reportedly part of the | plan but as I recall they wanted a more media-friendly target. | | Additionally, the fact that members of the Saudi government aided | and assisted the hijackers, and that they were tracked and | monitored by both the FBI and the CIA, yet no action was taken to | stop them, not even a simple warning to airlines to increase | security after that Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing? What a | debacle. | | We should have left Iraq and Afghanistan alone and done the | regime change op in Saudi Arabia, except that Wall Street likes | its petrodollars so Washington props up the House of Saud and its | theocratic dictatorship. And that's still going on. | project2501a wrote: | > done the regime change op in Saudi Arabia, | | how about "stop fucking with other countries", instead? | | maybe bring Kissinger to the international court? | maybelsyrup wrote: | Never forget: the CIA, at the highest levels, knew that two of | the 9/11 hijackers had multiple-entry visas to the US and were | living in the country in the year before the attacks. They knew | they were al-Qaeda, and they knew they were important enough to | have been at a big AQ powwow in Kuala Lumpur in 2000. | | CIA management prevented this information from being | disseminated by FBI agents posted inside "Alec Station", the | CIA's Bin Laden group, _several times_ , and they later lied | about doing so. All this according to, among other extremely | mainstream sources (in addition to the documentary record), | Richard Clarke, who would know -- he was the Federal "Terrorism | Czar" on 9/11 and has been fuming pissed about this since he | found [1][2]. You don't need to be a whack job, a conspiracist, | to be angry and mystified by this. | | In many instances like this one, cursory investigation into | claims of intelligence community "mistakes" or "incompetence" | in these matters gives the lie to claims that these | institutions somehow "dropped the ball" or "got it wrong" on | 9/11, and are thus not to blame (either partly or fully) for | the attacks. It's impossible to square such claims with a lot | of the official paper trail. One can _reasonably_ conclude that | some of this stuff _was not accidental_. We hire these people | to lie - why should we ever assume they 're not? | | (The best part? Many of the people involved in the events I | describe were promoted in the years post-9/11!) | | [1] https://abcnews.go.com/International/28-pages-questions- | alle... | | [2] https://www.doubleasteriskmedia.com/rich-blee-podcast | fouc wrote: | > We should have left Iraq and Afghanistan alone and done the | regime change op in Saudi Arabia | | I'm reminded of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnOdULpV810 | | TL;DW It had nothing to do with the regime in Saudi Arabia. Bin | laden and supporters were a fringe group. | tablespoon wrote: | > Additionally, the fact that members of the Saudi government | aided and assisted the hijackers... | | Details? My understanding is a huge fraction of the Saudi | population have jobs that amount to government sinecures (while | immigrants do most of the real work). Are we talking about | high-level members with real leadership positions, or some | minor member of the royal family working in some ministry doing | nothing and going off on his own? | ogma wrote: | _A court affidavit filed on 3 February 2015 claims that | Zacarias Moussaoui was a courier between Osama bin Laden and | Turki bin Faisal Al Saud in the late 1990s, and that Turki | introduced Moussaoui to Bandar.[76] Zacarias Moussaoui stated | on oath and wrote to Judge George B. Daniels that Saudi royal | family members, including Prince Bandar, donated to Al-Qaeda | and helped finance the 11 September attacks.[77] The Saudi | government continues to deny any involvement in the 9 /11 | plot, and claims there is no evidence to support Moussaoui's | allegations in spite of numerous previous intense | investigations, noting that Moussaoui's own lawyers presented | evidence of his mental incompetence during his trial.[76] | Leaked information from the redacted portion of the 9/11 | Commission Report states that two of the 9/11 hijackers | received $US130,000 in payment from Bandar's bank | account.[78]_ | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan_Al_Saud | | Bush's close friend, known arms dealer... you guys still | haven't figured this one out yet? HN is always the last to | know. | simonh wrote: | Saudi politics and personal relationships are a mess. It is | true that Bin Laden is a member of a very powerful family in | Saudi and so obviously has a lot of personal connections | there as do his close associates. He is however estranged | from that family and has been for a very long time, but may | have some in Saudi who have grievances against the house of | Saud and are sympathetic to the jihadis. | | Al Qaeda and many other jihadi outfits procure a lot of their | funding from Islamic charities and schools (Madrassas) with | complex and very opaque financial dealings. Also the Saudi | government and individual Saudis donate to many Islamic | charities, so its highly likely some of that money ends up | with the jihadi's including Al Qaeda. | | So yes there's almost certainly some truth to the | allegations. Some powerful Saudis may secretly support them, | some donate to charities and the money ends up with them, but | no this is not official Saudi state sponsorship of Al Qaeda. | In fact Al Qaeda consider the Saudi royal family and all of | their associates to be apostates (essentially heretics) who | can be killed summarily and they advocate for regime change | and the establishment of a Caliphate. | | Like I said, it's a real mess of family loyalties, rivalries, | swinging political fortunes and opaque dealings. Game of | Thrones has nothing on these people. Just look at what | happened to Jamal Khashoggi. | atombender wrote: | > Bin Laden is a member ... He is however estranged | | That's a curious way to phrase it, given that he died in | 2011. | mygoodaccount wrote: | > sinecure | | Wow this is a great word. Hadn't heard it before. Thanks for | sharing. | mlcrypto wrote: | Too many coincidences. Also we couldn't mobilize any fighter | jets at all when a plane goes off course? | jorgesborges wrote: | You can listen to real-time audio of FAA and NORAD track | planes and scramble fighters [0]. This is not an easy task | considering nobody knows what is happening and literally | every plane in the country is being redirected and landed | simultaneously. | | [0] skip to about 20min https://youtu.be/DYBhgEm3j7A | onion2k wrote: | Few people would want to make a call to shoot down two full | passenger jets over a city. With hindsight it would have been | the right option, but at the time it's unlikely it would have | happened even if there had been fighters with missiles | available. | rtkwe wrote: | Hijackings also weren't usually suicide missions before | then either so it would have been a big leap to decide to | shoot them down when you'd normally expect demands and a | chance to take it out on the ground rather than just | killing everyone on board. | jdavis703 wrote: | We did mobilize fighter jets (albeit without missiles, so | essentially if the pilots intercepted it'd likely be a | suicide mission). Also after 9/11 people straying in to no | fly zones over DC would be escorted out by fighters. | ykl wrote: | IIRC the fighters that were mobilized planned to ram since | they took off without time to load missiles onboard, but | all of our fighter keys have ejection seats. I assume the | plan was to eject. | dharmab wrote: | This is covered in the 9/11 commission report. Quoted below: | | The protocols did not contemplate an intercept. They assumed | the fighter escort would be discreet, "vectored to a position | five miles directly behind the hijacked aircraft," where it | could perform its mission to monitor the flight path of the | aircraft. | | In sum, the protocols in place on 9/11 for the FAA and NORAD | to respond to a hijacking presumed that: | | (1) the hijacked aircraft would be readily identifiable and | would not attempt to disappear; | | (2) there would be time to address the problem through the | appropriate FAA and NORAD chains of command; and | | (3) the hijacking would take the traditional form, not a | suicide hijacking designed to convert the aircraft into a | guided missile. | | On the morning of 9/11, the existing protocol was unsuited in | every respect for what was about to happen. What ensued was | the hurried attempt to create an improvised defense by | officials who had never encountered or trained against the | situation they faced. | jsgo wrote: | Yeah, I don't think 3 can be overstated. | | Prior to 911, hijacked planes were not an unknown thing. I | don't know numbers, but remember periodic events in the | news of x plane that was hijacked landing at y airport with | local officials needing to meet hijacker demands for it to | return to its flight. | | Was weird when it happened, but we also didn't have the | hour of processing through security we do now. | JamilD wrote: | Not quite an answer to your question, but in the 60s and 70s | hijackings were quite common (86 hijackings in 1969) and | weren't seen in the way they are now. The common | understanding was that the hijackers wanted to re-route the | plane somewhere else, and that everyone would end up alive | but inconvenienced. | | It's also one reason why only the passengers in United 93 | fought back; the idea of a plane as a missile wasn't widely | understood or considered until the planes hit the twin | towers. Fighter jets were not even under consideration to be | mobilized until United 93. | jazzyjackson wrote: | I thought I remembered the plot to the 1996 film "executive | decision" as being a debate whether to shoot the passenger | jet out of the sky because the plane was going to be used | as a missile, but i just read the plot again and they were | going to detonate a nerve agent bomb on board the plane | while over a us city, so, similar but not quite a | prediction of the predicament. | JamilD wrote: | I just started watching the historical footage from CNN; | it's interesting to hear the commentary in between when | the first and second planes hit the tower. | | "Was the plane having any difficulty flying?" "Yes, it | seemed to be rocking back and forth" "Was this a | navigational error?" | | An announcement in the South Tower immediately after the | crash instructed people to stay in their offices. | | Even after the second tower was hit, the immediate | reaction was that it was a second explosion in the North | Tower caused by the fuselage of the plane. | | 4 minutes after the second plane hit, when it was clear | that two planes were involved: "was it possible a | navigational error directed two planes into the World | Trade Center?" | | It's incredible to think just how much our attitude and | perspectives changed after realizing what exactly had | happened. | garaetjjte wrote: | That depends on the channel though. On one labeled | "NEWSW" they said "I think we have a terrorist act of | proportions that we cannot begin to imagine at this | juncture. " immediately after second hit. | trothamel wrote: | (Spoilers) | | The end of Tom Clancy's 1994 book "Debt of Honor" | featured a 747 being crashed into the Capital, which is | about as close as fiction gets. | anonymousab wrote: | A bit closer is the X-Files spinoff The Lone Gunmen, | where a March 2001 episode featured a plot to crash an | airliner into the world trade center and blame it on | terrorists to justify a new war. | | Obviously 9/11 wasn't some government conspiracy to | purposely spark new wars, but the other details are | eerily similar. | kolanos wrote: | > It's also one reason why only the passengers in United 93 | fought back; the idea of a plane as a missile wasn't widely | understood or considered until the planes hit the twin | towers. Fighter jets were not even under consideration to | be mobilized until United 93. | | Sadly this is mostly a myth. It is a little known fact that | there were five separate U.S. military war games being run | simultaneously with 9/11 and three of them involved | airliner hijacking scenarios, including flying airplanes | into buildings. Worse, these war games involved simulated | inputs into NORAD and FAA radar systems, resulting in mass | confusion. There is an excellent documentary that covers | these war games, including actual NORAD, FAA and EADS audio | [0]. | | [0]: https://www.corbettreport.com/911wargames/ | vmception wrote: | We could have done regime change in Saudi Arabia and still had | petrodollars | | Sometimes its useful to think _inside_ the box | | But yeah current Saudi Arabia is a good deal for the US, hard | to get others so heavily intertwined financially. Might as well | not touch it. | jazzyjackson wrote: | I don't really understand what US/allies get from maintaining | a theocracy in SA, chevron and british petroleum predate the | modern kingdom, right? why is it good business sense to let | the royal family siphon cash like there's no tomorrow? | | seems to me a political explanation is more likely, probably | related to the holy war with Iran. In that case I never | really understood why we took an anti-theocratic stance | there. | boomboomsubban wrote: | Saudi Arabia broadly respects western wishes, they let the | western companies make billions of dollars off their oil | while the monarchy also makes billions of dollars. The West | worries that if they rock the boat, a situation like | Venezuela or Iran will happen, where the state tries to cut | out the western companies from getting a cut. | | Iran provides the perfect example of why we tolerate Saudi | Arabia. From 1901 to 1951, Iran's oil was controlled | primarily by the British. In 1951, a democratic movement | lead to the nationalization of the oil industry, which | quickly led to a CIA backed coup. For the next ~30 years, a | Western backed dictatorship ruled and their violent rule | lead to the 1979 revolution being overtly hostile to the | West. | | The West fears any other Saudi government would end up | hostile to the West, given their decades of support for the | monarchy. | dylan604 wrote: | The devil you know... | | If you hold an election after toppling a non-democratic | government, you never know if that's going to be the last | election or not. Also, you just can't trust that the people | will elect your "guy". If you're already "controlling" the | current leadership, no need to turn over the apple cart. | vmception wrote: | taking over places is more expensive than letting people | have their own self determination. distributes the load, | still gets the resources and influence. greater levels of | animosity avoided, sometimes completely. | creato wrote: | My relatively uneducated impression: it seems like the | current leaders of Saudi Arabia are the _most_ liberal (in | the classical sense) option. Other candidates for | leadership are even more hardline religious conservatives | (and when people think of the 9 /11 hijackers coming from | SA, it's from these groups). Pushing against the current | leadership is unlikely to result in an overall improvement | in the situation. | yyyk wrote: | >We could have done regime change in Saudi Arabia and still | had petrodollars | | Very unlikely. Any military involvement anywhere near Mecca | and Medina is off the table barring being invited or some | utterly insane scenario. | mcguire wrote: | " _...barring being invited or some utterly insane | scenario._ " | | I think you're being redundant there. US troops _anywhere_ | in Saudi Arabia is kind of a big deal. | gremloni wrote: | Saudi Arabia is not a regime. It's the most powerful tribal | family in a country of family/tribes _all_ of whom have the | same perspective. Never mind the fact that it's a very rich | country in country with obnoxious human rights abuses when it | comes to migrant workers but still has no poverty. Even amongst | the migrants. Not to mention that in my opinion they treat | women exactly how they should be treated. | dragonwriter wrote: | > Saudi Arabia is not a regime. | | Yes, it has a regime. | | > It's the most powerful tribal family in a country of | family/tribes all of whom have the same perspective. | | Yes, the House of Saud is that, except not all the | family/tribes have the same perspective (heck, even the House | of Saud isn't internally super cohesive, though MBS' recent | internal purges and the implicit threat of more have reduced | the degree of _active_ viewpoint diversity within the House | of Saud and Saudi elites more generally.) | | > Never mind the fact that it's a very rich country in | country with obnoxious human rights abuses when it comes to | migrant workers but still has no poverty. Even amongst the | migrants. | | Saudi Arabia has a low reported poverty rate (but not zero; | 12.7%) but it's reporting is irregular and unreliable, and is | generally held to underestimate poverty significantly in | general. Poverty estimates among the migrants make up the bar | majority of the labor force (and the vast majority of the | low-skill labor force) are very high. | 542458 wrote: | Re: Indian Point - containment buildings are pretty armoured by | design. The Indian point containment vessel walls are several | feet of high-grade steel reinforced concrete. You might be | thinking of the skinny, low quality rebar used in common | construction at this point - this isn't that, the rebar here is | 2.25 inches thick, made of good-quality steel, and spaced every | fifteen inches or so. The containment building is also smaller | than a 747, so you can't transfer the entire plane's energy to | it like you could with a larger target like the towers. | | The Indian Point engineers assert that theirs reactors and all | other structures contains radioactive material could survive a | 9/11 style impact. | | http://webarchive.loc.gov/all/20130108221220/http://www.nei.... | bradknowles wrote: | When the towers were first built, one of the design questions | was whether or not they could survive being hit by a 747 -- | on accident, presumably. So, that issue was taken into | consideration. | | At the time of the attack, more modern aircraft were used, | which had much thinner skins and were much more lightly | constructed. Which means that they got much more shredded by | the building construction as they passed through, and which | also helped take off a lot more of the fire insulation from | the trusses in the building. | 542458 wrote: | The 747s simulated were also near-empty and flying slow, as | the assumption was an accidental collision from an airplane | lost in fog trying to land. They never simulated one nearly | full of fuel running full-tilt. | rtkwe wrote: | You'd be more likely to damage enough of the cooling and | control systems to cause an issue but it most likely wouldn't | lead to a meltdown since Indian Point was a PWR reactor and | those use the liquid water as a moderator so if it starts to | overheat it naturally lowers it's own reactivity. | ascar wrote: | My dad told me that when he studied construction engineering | in the late 70s at TU Munich one of their assignments was to | calculate if the Isar nuclear reactors are built strong | enough to hold off a Mach 2.2 impact of a Phantom II. If I | recall correctly the correct answer was that they were quite | a bit stronger than necessary for that. | | However, I always wondered if a large civilian plane like a | 747 with a speed close to Mach 1 creates more or less impact. | The 747 is ~12 times heavier, but it's also less than half | the speed and spreads the impact across a much larger area. | adwi wrote: | > The containment building is also smaller than a 747, so you | can't transfer the entire plane's energy to it like you could | with a larger target like the towers. | | I know very little about physics and found this to be an | unexpected point I'd like to understand more. Could you | explain? | whoisburbansky wrote: | The plane isn't perfectly rigid, so it would only be able | to impart as much energy to the structure as contained in | the part of the plane that gets sheared off while colliding | with the containment building. | [deleted] | gremloni wrote: | I'm no expert at physics but the towers were more | "collapsible" so they would absorb more of the momentum | from the planes. | jwagenet wrote: | As a layman there are probably few theories behind this | statement: 1. The plane is not an energy monolith, any part | of the plane larger than the building (eg wings) would have | its own inertia which continues to rip off and around the | building rather than drive all energy/mass attached to | plane to the point of impact. 2. A smaller building may act | like a plow if circular or hit on a corner, diverting | energy as in 1. 3. If you simplify the side of a building | to a supported plane, a larger plane may deform to failure | more than a small plane due to the distance between | supports ( other walls of building) | fighterpilot wrote: | > Iraq | | Regarding WMDs, the suggestion at the time was that | intelligence couldn't be released because it was sensitive. | | What if they were required by law to release an md5sum of a | tarball of the intelligence, perhaps with some associated | metadata to make it infeasible to fabricate/game. This whole | process is overseen by a judge or independent body. Then 5-15 | years later they release it in full when that intelligence is | no longer sensitive? | | This is a way to get around that excuse and help with | accountability, transparency, trust in institutions, and so on. | Sort of like a time-shifted FOIA request. It'd be a great way | to strengthen our democratic institutions, disincentivize lying | and corruption, and improving everyone's confidence in our | institutions. | | Perhaps this isn't feasibile in practice, though, if the | intelligence involves spies/assets that are still operational, | or if it would involve revealing secrets around capabilities | and methods. However, if that's the case, then they could | release say 100 md5sums corresponding to the 100 documents, and | only release the subset of which is no longer sensitive, with a | judge appointed to determine the legitimacy of the claim of | sensitivity, and forcing the release of the subset of documents | not deemed to be sensitive. | AndrewUnmuted wrote: | What is the rationale for this kind of thing? What motivates a | person to construct such a strange relic to 9/11 like this? | | And how come, after doing so, did the creator fail to make any | sort of reasonable points about the event? | | This feels like some sort of opportunistic resume-building kind | of project, made from the very real deaths of thousands of | innocent people. | | And not one mention was made about the US's horrific foreign | policy that led to 9/11 in the first place. Such a wasted | opportunity. | dharmab wrote: | Did you not get the intro pop-up explaining this is intended | for use as part of a history class lesson plan for students | born after 9/11? | AndrewUnmuted wrote: | No, I didn't notice that. | | And if that's the intended use for this stupid website, then | it's a terrible lesson plan they've made. It doesn't actually | address any meaningful aspect to 9/11 besides make it appear | to be from the "beforetimes." | maybelsyrup wrote: | Damn someone's on the rag. Go smoke a joint bud, it's gonna | be okay | ctdonath wrote: | Nothing wrong with aggregating records of a historical | event and presenting them in real time without commentary. | Put together the records and let them speak for the event. | | Your verbiage indicates the mere portrayal of what happened | is deeply at odds with your opinions about it. Care to | elaborate? | solveit wrote: | > This feels like some sort of opportunistic resume- | building kind of project, made from the very real deaths | of thousands of innocent people. | | They dislike the current state of the tech industry and | cannot stop thinking about it no matter what the topic. | humanistbot wrote: | It isn't a lesson plan. It is raw archival material | intended for teachers to use with whatever lesson plan they | create. | lmilcin wrote: | I think it is public service to show historical events from a | different perspective. | | Reading about something is one thing, being able to experience | as it happened, the same way most people experienced -- from | media, is another. | n8cpdx wrote: | primary source documents are one of the most powerful ways to | understand an event and the impact it had. | | I'm almost in my 30s and I barely remember 9/11. Most kids | today, live in a world (for Americans at least) that was | profoundly changed by 9/11. They deserve to be able to | understand that moment. | | The first time I went to an airport, there were (National | Guard, I think) soldiers standing around with heavy duty guns. | Later, it was removing shoes and all the rest of the nonsense | security theater we still put up with. A few years later, the | fabled pornoscan. | | People deserve to be able to learn about the history of their | world. It is deeply offensive to me that you would suggest | people can't handle primary sources and need someone to make | 'reasonable points' and do people's thinking for them. | jpindar wrote: | Has anyone figured out how to listen to one of the audio clips at | a time? | | I keep having to play whack-a-mole trying to mute the ones I'm | not listening to, but they don't stay muted, and to make things | worse they keep changing position on the screen. | [deleted] | serverholic wrote: | Is september 11th some sort of special day? | arthurcolle wrote: | Not funny | serverholic wrote: | My bad I didn't realize you were the authority on humor. | mkr-hn wrote: | I'm the authority on humor. A joke has some kind of | structure, usually a setup, some kind of carry-through, and | a punchline. What you have is a sentence. | ratsmack wrote: | Deadpan humor looks like a sentence. | serverholic wrote: | TIL humor must adhere to a formula. Thank you sir. | throwthrow564 wrote: | It's interesting how little the broadcasts of other nations | changed whereas American news just replayed 9/11 footage time and | time again. The CCTV played a soap opera and BBC was focused on | mad cow's disease. It also appears that NHK was much more focused | on a typhoon in Hokkaido. | vesinisa wrote: | The creators of this website unfortunately did not consider | that BBC broadcasts in British time. You have to jump to 1:59 | PM (= 8:59 AM NYC time) for the beginning of the BBC coverage. | | I personally vividly remember watching the news on BBC World | and saw at least one of the towers collapse on live TV. You | don't really forget something like that. | ISL wrote: | It is incredible reliving this experience, knowing what was to | come in the two decades after. | mathgenius wrote: | Yes. But also, it was pretty obvious to me at the time what was | going to happen, modulo some details. | | What I did not predict was that I would end up living in many | different cities in many different countries, including Los | Angeles and New York City. And by far, Americans are the most | kind-hearted, generous and polite people I've found anywhere. | Even the beggars in Manhatten would be more interested in how I | am going and cheering me up than in actually getting any money | out of me. | ISL wrote: | We all knew that we were going to respond unfailingly to | counter those responsible. What we didn't know was who it | was, where they were, what the ripple-effects might be, or | how it might end. | | On the latter-two points, we don't yet know the entire story. | w45hljlk wrote: | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid | | 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - | So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - 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Videos keep popping up and | can't close the thing. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-09-11 23:00 UTC)