[HN Gopher] U.S. Treasury Data Lab
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       U.S. Treasury Data Lab
        
       Author : accountinhn
       Score  : 54 points
       Date   : 2021-09-14 19:10 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (datalab.usaspending.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (datalab.usaspending.gov)
        
       | Gabriel_Martin wrote:
       | When it comes to comparing the amounts of US gov spending to US
       | household spending (not that I could propose a better mechanism,
       | meaning I understand the value of framing things in such a way,
       | and fully admit I can't think of a more salient way to do it) I'm
       | just not a fan of comparing state level spending to household or
       | personal finance.
       | 
       | It leads to other examples being used that just are not true.
       | Like: "It is similar to a person using his or her credit card for
       | a purchase (rather than cash, check, or a debit card) and not
       | paying the full credit card balance each month".
       | 
       | I cannot sell access to my debt to pay for past debts, which is
       | how the government has paid it's debts since 1837 (probably so
       | long ago because that the last time we sought to destroy debt and
       | not pay for things by monetizing debt, it caused the longest
       | depression in American history due to Jackson's monetary policy
       | in 1835). Nor can I create credit out of thin air, by buying
       | treasuries my member banks. Also, I most definitely do not owe
       | 50% of my non-intergovernmental debt to my own central bank and
       | state and local governments and their pensions. Much less, all
       | the while operating with a currency I control.
       | 
       | So yeah, I don't love it, but I get it.
        
       | Aliabid94 wrote:
       | Would be great if we could dive in deeper, breaking it down by
       | expense purpose, regions, etc.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | aazaa wrote:
       | > While the Department of the Treasury prints actual dollars,
       | "printing money" is also a term that is sometimes used to
       | describe a means of monetary policy, which is conducted by the
       | Federal Reserve. Monetary policy involves controlling the supply
       | of money and the cost of borrowing. The Federal Reserve uses
       | monetary policy to promote maximum employment, stable prices, and
       | moderate long-term interest rates on the behalf of the Congress.
       | The federal government uses fiscal policy, or the control of
       | taxation and government spending, to promote economic activity.
       | 
       | I can't help but think this is confusing as heck to most
       | Americans.
       | 
       | I'm not sure all of the quoted statements are true. Private banks
       | create a good chunk of the new money that goes into circulation
       | by issuing loans. The Federal government (through the Treasury)
       | creates still more by issuing bonds to cover deficit spending.
       | 
       | The Fed can influence the rate of money creation by setting short
       | term rates. But the Fed can't force banks to loan money, so its
       | power is limited. Especially so with short term rates pegged at
       | zero for most of the last 13 years or so.
       | 
       | Although some view the Fed's QE as a form of "money printing,"
       | it's not. It's an asset swap in which the Federal reserve buys a
       | Treasury from a bank, issuing a reserve asset as a credit to the
       | bank. Reserve assets thereby become "trapped" inside the banking
       | system. They are not cash and can only be used under very
       | restricted conditions (not unlike a laundry token) at least
       | according to some sources.
        
         | nojito wrote:
         | Providing liquidity via loans does not mean private banks are
         | creating money!
        
         | tick_tock_tick wrote:
         | > Private banks create a good chunk of the new money that goes
         | into circulation by issuing loans.
         | 
         | Even this is misleading private banks do not "create" money.
         | They add to the supply but do not create. For every loan credit
         | there is an equal loan debit. The total amount of money, the
         | sum of all credits and debits, is the exact same.
        
           | AnimalMuppet wrote:
           | Yes, but also no.
           | 
           | Yes, a loan creates both a credit and a debit, and they
           | offset exactly. In that sense, nothing is created.
           | 
           | But the credit spends just like cash. The debit, on the other
           | hand, does _not_ spend like negative cash. So in the sense of
           | the supply of money _in circulation_ , bank loans create
           | money.
        
           | lend000 wrote:
           | As the other commenter implied, in a fractional reserve
           | banking system (where banks lend any amount > 0, and are not
           | just acting as vaults), banks do indeed create money [0].
           | 
           | Printed dollars are necessary in an amount proportional to
           | economic activity, and the sum of printed dollars is only
           | loosely related to the total money supply as it affects the
           | macroeconomy (and is becoming less relevant every year).
           | 
           | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_multiplier
        
             | Gabriel_Martin wrote:
             | From your link, wouldn't: "the multiplier being the maximum
             | amount of commercial bank money created by a given unit of
             | central bank money" be interpreted to mean that as soon as
             | central bank monetizes it's debt, i.e. the money is
             | initially created, it inherently is equal to a certain
             | amount of commercial bank money, as long as it doesn't
             | remain unlent? So it's not really the new creation of
             | money, but rather the realization of it's value, upon being
             | lent by a bank?
        
           | BobbyJo wrote:
           | > The total amount of money, the sum of all credits and
           | debits, is the exact same.
           | 
           | Can't banks lend something like 7X more money than they have
           | in deposits?
        
         | pphysch wrote:
         | > Although some view the Fed's QE as a form of "money
         | printing," it's not. It's an asset swap in which the Federal
         | reserve buys a Treasury from a bank, issuing a reserve asset as
         | a credit to the bank. Reserve assets thereby become "trapped"
         | inside the banking system. They are not cash and can only be
         | used under very restricted conditions (not unlike a laundry
         | token) at least according to some sources.
         | 
         | According to [1], "[Federal Reserve Deposits] are
         | interchangeable with Federal Reserve Notes", i.e. cash. But you
         | are claiming the opposite. Do you have a source?
         | 
         | [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Deposits
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-14 23:00 UTC)