[HN Gopher] Facebook under fire over secret teen research ___________________________________________________________________ Facebook under fire over secret teen research Author : ColinWright Score : 81 points Date : 2021-09-15 21:28 UTC (1 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.bbc.co.uk) (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.co.uk) | i_love_music wrote: | Such a shame Facebook is considered a prestigious place to work. | Sure, you can become a millionaire, but at what cost? Is this | what you imagined you would do as a kid interested in | math/computers/science? | rozap wrote: | It's a useful tool for hiring though. I wouldn't be able to | hire anyone who worked there. At least at my current job, a | functioning moral compass is required due to the impact our | clients (governments) have on the general population. It's part | of our interview process. | | Not that the pay scales overlap much anyway. | lostlogin wrote: | > Such a shame Facebook is considered a prestigious place to | work. | | Is it? It's not my industry but I haven't got that impression | from reading threads here. | voidfunc wrote: | I like money. Not at Facebook but would join if I was looking | again. Someone's gonna get the money, it might as well be me. | na85 wrote: | >Someone's gonna get the money, it might as well be me. | | Ethics are disappointingly rare in Software. Such a shame. | Redori wrote: | I'm open to new thoughts on this but this seems like Facebook is | being used a scapegoat. What would be a viable solution to this | problem? | raman162 wrote: | Related recent discussion: | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28523688 | notyourwork wrote: | Does anyone remember Cosmopolitan and other like magazines. | Teenage body issues and associated anxiety are not new. What has | happened is we gave everyone internet access so now they can look | at pictures of unrealistic bodies all day everywhere they go. The | result is body dysmorphia on steroids. | dhimes wrote: | Young men are vulnerable to this, too. In fact, it's not | unreasonable to think that it doesn't do any good for older men | and women, either. | edoceo wrote: | Setting unrealistic expectations and then failing to meet | them is bad-feels for all brains. | mc32 wrote: | It's true, but how many girls bought/could afford Cosmo, Elle, | etc. subs? I suspect it wasn't as many as have Insta/Fb | accounts --which is world-wide and reaches into every class and | society. | | And given we now know it's severely detrimental to their well- | being, I think it deserves serious consideration and requires | change. I don't mean to censor people, but we must stop | fomenting the image problem on purpose via programming and | advertising and social engagement. | | Facebook knows it's a problem and they should tackle it (as | well as any such legacy magazines and the fashion industry in | general). | FpUser wrote: | >"Facebook knows it's a problem and they should tackle it" | | Preface: Not a lover of Facebook and "social media" in | general and do not use it as such. | | However having FB "tackle / promote" way of life I think is | totally wrong. It is up to the parents and schools to tech | kids that there are more interesting things in the world than | this mental masturbation on computer / phone screen watching | somebody else's life. | agallant wrote: | Yep, as another example "fake news" isn't new either, e.g. | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism | | I'd suggest that the new challenge isn't simply scale and | omnipresence but algorithmization - modern platforms can tune | and target to the level of the individual. In the past, | (dis)information had to be broadcast in a far more one-size- | fits-most style, perhaps segmented by broad geographic or | demographic groups at best. | standardUser wrote: | I truly don't understands this perspective. It used to be that | mass media was a tightly-controlled, walled-off garden. The set | number of popular and accessible magazines, tv stations and | films suffered from far more centralized control, had far less | inclusion in its leadership and staff, and resulted in a hyper- | narrow range of acceptable beauty and image standards. It was | borderline dystopian. | | Young people, by and large, could _only_ view media that was | part of this monoculture. They were already seeing it all | everywhere they went. Now, with just a little looking, people | can find an entire universe of body-positive media and | communities that simply _did not exist_ in the 80 's and 90's. | So while there may be more ways to transmit body negativity | thanks to the internet, I'd argue there is not _more_ body | negativity because we had already maxed it out. It 's just as | bad as it had been for decades. The difference now is an | alternative exists! | mc32 wrote: | I think the problem is people think there isn't an attractive | main stream that people look to regardless of microculture | (see Kaitlin Jenner for example as someone who finds | themselves an outsider within a small community). But even if | that were not the case, being anti-X is also a problem in | itself as you are defining yourself against X. | | Wanting to be "popular" has its problems but wanting to be | "anti-popular" is also a problem because in the end it's not | yourself. Being the not-popular also has it's own mainstream | so it will have the same popular and anti-popular dynamic. So | the only ones benefiting are the company and aware | "influencers". | bayindirh wrote: | Maybe this body negativity came from _inaccessible_ people, | who were famous /connected enough to be on these pages. | | Now, _everyone_ can do it, and many are around you, | accessible. They are your friend 's friends or your friends. | | Moreover, mobile applications and web applications allows you | to touch up your appearance. You look and say "I'd be so much | beautiful/handsome this way, but I'm not, and _never will be_ | ". | | Self criticism inflicts the greatest damage since there's no | restraint, no barrier to dampen down to its effects. It's | very destructive. | naravara wrote: | I think the parasocial element of engagement on Twitter and | Instagram have a big effect as well. A cover model in a | magazine has an air of inaccessibility. She's clearly an | aspirational figure and held above "normal" people. | | The way the influencer model works, though, they're all focused | on seeming accessible and relatable. It's not just that this is | a supermodel who is above us all, she's trying to look like | your hot friend. All the products she shills are stuff that's | supposed to make you look like her. | titzer wrote: | > What has happened is we gave everyone internet access so now | they can look at pictures of unrealistic bodies all day | everywhere they go. | | Not just that. The entire model is to _chase you down, pester | you with it, and shove products into your face_. Which | products? Whoever bids the most! | huntermeyer wrote: | We may have to come together as a society and deem these social | media apps as being a harm to society, especially the youth. | | Perhaps even age restrict them like alcohol, gambling, etc. | fidesomnes wrote: | yes. ban them all. it is the only way to think of the children. | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: | This is more interesting (Instagram response to WSJ, linked to in | the article): | https://about.instagram.com/blog/announcements/using-researc... | | "We're increasingly focused on addressing negative social | comparison and negative body image. One idea we think has promise | is finding opportunities to jump in if we see people dwelling on | certain types of content." | | "From our research, we're starting to understand the types of | content some people feel may contribute to negative social | comparison, and we're exploring ways to prompt them to look at | different topics if they're repeatedly looking at this type of | content." | | Wow, talk about "Big Brother". | | Facebook/Instagram monitors everything the user looks at, how | many times and for how long, and now they will "jump in" and | alert the user. | | "We're watching you and we think you should look at something | else." | | Meanwhile the whole "business model" of Instgram/Facebook is | online advertising. | | Advertising, e.g., in print, is what created these "negative body | image" problems in the first place! | | As they say, in the world of computers, what is old is new again. | Originality is rare. | | Big Tech relies on the same tired, old consumerism ideas, except | it operates over the internet. | | The only thing "futuristic" is the surveillance. Its nothing less | than incredible what young people today are tolerating. Are they | studying the psychological affects of surveillance on young | people. | Tarsul wrote: | I'd like to think that by "jumping in" they mean that they | change what kind of content the algorithms shows their users... | however, I'd guess that no such self-regulation could ever | suffice (esp. because it would always be less important than ad | money in internal metrics). | mc32 wrote: | Yeah. As if it's not obvious "engagement" and "influencers" | aren't the real problem, no instead, it's "huh, some people | actually fall for the ads (body image)". | | Stop promoting trash and see the problem go away --but so will | their main cash cow. That might color their decision-making a | bit. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-09-15 23:00 UTC)