[HN Gopher] Facebook under fire over secret teen research
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       Facebook under fire over secret teen research
        
       Author : ColinWright
       Score  : 81 points
       Date   : 2021-09-15 21:28 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.co.uk)
        
       | i_love_music wrote:
       | Such a shame Facebook is considered a prestigious place to work.
       | Sure, you can become a millionaire, but at what cost? Is this
       | what you imagined you would do as a kid interested in
       | math/computers/science?
        
         | rozap wrote:
         | It's a useful tool for hiring though. I wouldn't be able to
         | hire anyone who worked there. At least at my current job, a
         | functioning moral compass is required due to the impact our
         | clients (governments) have on the general population. It's part
         | of our interview process.
         | 
         | Not that the pay scales overlap much anyway.
        
         | lostlogin wrote:
         | > Such a shame Facebook is considered a prestigious place to
         | work.
         | 
         | Is it? It's not my industry but I haven't got that impression
         | from reading threads here.
        
         | voidfunc wrote:
         | I like money. Not at Facebook but would join if I was looking
         | again. Someone's gonna get the money, it might as well be me.
        
           | na85 wrote:
           | >Someone's gonna get the money, it might as well be me.
           | 
           | Ethics are disappointingly rare in Software. Such a shame.
        
       | Redori wrote:
       | I'm open to new thoughts on this but this seems like Facebook is
       | being used a scapegoat. What would be a viable solution to this
       | problem?
        
       | raman162 wrote:
       | Related recent discussion:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28523688
        
       | notyourwork wrote:
       | Does anyone remember Cosmopolitan and other like magazines.
       | Teenage body issues and associated anxiety are not new. What has
       | happened is we gave everyone internet access so now they can look
       | at pictures of unrealistic bodies all day everywhere they go. The
       | result is body dysmorphia on steroids.
        
         | dhimes wrote:
         | Young men are vulnerable to this, too. In fact, it's not
         | unreasonable to think that it doesn't do any good for older men
         | and women, either.
        
           | edoceo wrote:
           | Setting unrealistic expectations and then failing to meet
           | them is bad-feels for all brains.
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | It's true, but how many girls bought/could afford Cosmo, Elle,
         | etc. subs? I suspect it wasn't as many as have Insta/Fb
         | accounts --which is world-wide and reaches into every class and
         | society.
         | 
         | And given we now know it's severely detrimental to their well-
         | being, I think it deserves serious consideration and requires
         | change. I don't mean to censor people, but we must stop
         | fomenting the image problem on purpose via programming and
         | advertising and social engagement.
         | 
         | Facebook knows it's a problem and they should tackle it (as
         | well as any such legacy magazines and the fashion industry in
         | general).
        
           | FpUser wrote:
           | >"Facebook knows it's a problem and they should tackle it"
           | 
           | Preface: Not a lover of Facebook and "social media" in
           | general and do not use it as such.
           | 
           | However having FB "tackle / promote" way of life I think is
           | totally wrong. It is up to the parents and schools to tech
           | kids that there are more interesting things in the world than
           | this mental masturbation on computer / phone screen watching
           | somebody else's life.
        
         | agallant wrote:
         | Yep, as another example "fake news" isn't new either, e.g.
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism
         | 
         | I'd suggest that the new challenge isn't simply scale and
         | omnipresence but algorithmization - modern platforms can tune
         | and target to the level of the individual. In the past,
         | (dis)information had to be broadcast in a far more one-size-
         | fits-most style, perhaps segmented by broad geographic or
         | demographic groups at best.
        
         | standardUser wrote:
         | I truly don't understands this perspective. It used to be that
         | mass media was a tightly-controlled, walled-off garden. The set
         | number of popular and accessible magazines, tv stations and
         | films suffered from far more centralized control, had far less
         | inclusion in its leadership and staff, and resulted in a hyper-
         | narrow range of acceptable beauty and image standards. It was
         | borderline dystopian.
         | 
         | Young people, by and large, could _only_ view media that was
         | part of this monoculture. They were already seeing it all
         | everywhere they went. Now, with just a little looking, people
         | can find an entire universe of body-positive media and
         | communities that simply _did not exist_ in the 80 's and 90's.
         | So while there may be more ways to transmit body negativity
         | thanks to the internet, I'd argue there is not _more_ body
         | negativity because we had already maxed it out. It 's just as
         | bad as it had been for decades. The difference now is an
         | alternative exists!
        
           | mc32 wrote:
           | I think the problem is people think there isn't an attractive
           | main stream that people look to regardless of microculture
           | (see Kaitlin Jenner for example as someone who finds
           | themselves an outsider within a small community). But even if
           | that were not the case, being anti-X is also a problem in
           | itself as you are defining yourself against X.
           | 
           | Wanting to be "popular" has its problems but wanting to be
           | "anti-popular" is also a problem because in the end it's not
           | yourself. Being the not-popular also has it's own mainstream
           | so it will have the same popular and anti-popular dynamic. So
           | the only ones benefiting are the company and aware
           | "influencers".
        
           | bayindirh wrote:
           | Maybe this body negativity came from _inaccessible_ people,
           | who were famous /connected enough to be on these pages.
           | 
           | Now, _everyone_ can do it, and many are around you,
           | accessible. They are your friend 's friends or your friends.
           | 
           | Moreover, mobile applications and web applications allows you
           | to touch up your appearance. You look and say "I'd be so much
           | beautiful/handsome this way, but I'm not, and _never will be_
           | ".
           | 
           | Self criticism inflicts the greatest damage since there's no
           | restraint, no barrier to dampen down to its effects. It's
           | very destructive.
        
         | naravara wrote:
         | I think the parasocial element of engagement on Twitter and
         | Instagram have a big effect as well. A cover model in a
         | magazine has an air of inaccessibility. She's clearly an
         | aspirational figure and held above "normal" people.
         | 
         | The way the influencer model works, though, they're all focused
         | on seeming accessible and relatable. It's not just that this is
         | a supermodel who is above us all, she's trying to look like
         | your hot friend. All the products she shills are stuff that's
         | supposed to make you look like her.
        
         | titzer wrote:
         | > What has happened is we gave everyone internet access so now
         | they can look at pictures of unrealistic bodies all day
         | everywhere they go.
         | 
         | Not just that. The entire model is to _chase you down, pester
         | you with it, and shove products into your face_. Which
         | products? Whoever bids the most!
        
       | huntermeyer wrote:
       | We may have to come together as a society and deem these social
       | media apps as being a harm to society, especially the youth.
       | 
       | Perhaps even age restrict them like alcohol, gambling, etc.
        
         | fidesomnes wrote:
         | yes. ban them all. it is the only way to think of the children.
        
       | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
       | This is more interesting (Instagram response to WSJ, linked to in
       | the article):
       | https://about.instagram.com/blog/announcements/using-researc...
       | 
       | "We're increasingly focused on addressing negative social
       | comparison and negative body image. One idea we think has promise
       | is finding opportunities to jump in if we see people dwelling on
       | certain types of content."
       | 
       | "From our research, we're starting to understand the types of
       | content some people feel may contribute to negative social
       | comparison, and we're exploring ways to prompt them to look at
       | different topics if they're repeatedly looking at this type of
       | content."
       | 
       | Wow, talk about "Big Brother".
       | 
       | Facebook/Instagram monitors everything the user looks at, how
       | many times and for how long, and now they will "jump in" and
       | alert the user.
       | 
       | "We're watching you and we think you should look at something
       | else."
       | 
       | Meanwhile the whole "business model" of Instgram/Facebook is
       | online advertising.
       | 
       | Advertising, e.g., in print, is what created these "negative body
       | image" problems in the first place!
       | 
       | As they say, in the world of computers, what is old is new again.
       | Originality is rare.
       | 
       | Big Tech relies on the same tired, old consumerism ideas, except
       | it operates over the internet.
       | 
       | The only thing "futuristic" is the surveillance. Its nothing less
       | than incredible what young people today are tolerating. Are they
       | studying the psychological affects of surveillance on young
       | people.
        
         | Tarsul wrote:
         | I'd like to think that by "jumping in" they mean that they
         | change what kind of content the algorithms shows their users...
         | however, I'd guess that no such self-regulation could ever
         | suffice (esp. because it would always be less important than ad
         | money in internal metrics).
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | Yeah. As if it's not obvious "engagement" and "influencers"
         | aren't the real problem, no instead, it's "huh, some people
         | actually fall for the ads (body image)".
         | 
         | Stop promoting trash and see the problem go away --but so will
         | their main cash cow. That might color their decision-making a
         | bit.
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-15 23:00 UTC)