[HN Gopher] Chery QQ Ice Cream goes on sale in China - a modern ... ___________________________________________________________________ Chery QQ Ice Cream goes on sale in China - a modern electric car for $4,600 Author : teleforce Score : 82 points Date : 2021-09-17 15:44 UTC (7 hours ago) (HTM) web link (gadgettendency.com) (TXT) w3m dump (gadgettendency.com) | legerdemain wrote: | QQ in Chinese means "squishy" or "gelatinous." | AlgorithmicTime wrote: | I'm not sure my car should be "gelatinous." | slim wrote: | Is it pronounced "sheshe" ? | yuy910616 wrote: | QQ is actually just pronounced like QQ in English. If I | remember correctly, it was first popularized by a type of | candy - call QQ candy, which I think is where the soft and | squishy meaning the OP referred to came from. | | Next was QQ the software, I think inspired by the name ICQ, | developed by WeChat's developer, Tencent. Prior to smart | phones and wechat - QQ was the dominating platform | brnt wrote: | Hope this is not reflective of this car's construction. | gandalfian wrote: | Wikipedia: The Chery QQ Ice Cream is powered by a 27 hp Chery | TZ160XFDM13A electric motor, which uses a lithium iron phosphate | battery pack. The car has an electric range of about 175 km (109 | mi) and a top speed of 100 km (62 mi). | p1mrx wrote: | For comparison: Chery QQ: 20 kW / 700 kg = 29 | W/kg Chevrolet Bolt: 150 kW / 1600 kg = 94 W/kg | | So a typical American EV has >3X better power to weight ratio | than this vehicle. LiFePO4 batteries tend not to burst into | flames though... | notJim wrote: | Model 3 with LFP battery: 239 kW / 2139 kg = 111 W/kg | | Stats from here: https://ev-database.org/car/1320/Tesla- | Model-3-Standard-Rang... | llampx wrote: | Sounds like a Tata Nano, which I've had the misfortune of | driving. It could get up 100 kmh only downhill with a tailwind | though. I tested it. | mywittyname wrote: | For reference, the Prius electric motor is slightly more | powerful than that (depending on year) and it's incredibly | sluggish when accelerating without the gasoline motor. I'm | sure part of that is Toyota doesn't give the electric motor | full juice without the ICE, but the other part of it is that | 23kw/30hp is not a lot. | | I suspect the 0-30 (!) would be in the 13 second range and | hitting 60 would take like two minutes and few miles of | straight, flat road with no headwind. | kube-system wrote: | Every Prius has at least 2 electric motors. In the typical | Prius, it's the larger of those two, MG2 that drives the | wheels. But the power that the battery system can deliver | is pretty wimpy in most hybrids, because you can run the | engine to generate additional electricity when you need it. | mywittyname wrote: | True, but AFAIK, only one propels the car without the | ICE, the other is used in conjunction with the ICE to | control the gearing for the ecvt. | cure wrote: | The "Chery QQ Ice Cream" has a curb weight of only 743 kg. | The lightest Prius seems to be 1,390 kg. | bserge wrote: | Sounds good for city use. In fact I'd like a model twice as | long (can be half as fast) for the extra cargo space. | adventured wrote: | A mostly flat city without Winter weather. I doubt this thing | - at 27hp - would climb the hills of San Francisco or | Pittsburgh very well with two adult passengers in it. | stickfigure wrote: | Just how fast do you need to race up those hills?? 27hp is | fine, especially for a 1500 lb vehicle. | throwaway89848b wrote: | Even before having been involved in a car accident two years ago, | I have always been annoyed with the car industry, and looked on | incredulously at the kind of racket that people are suckered into | dealing with. Buying a car is like being forced to consume a | lifestyle brand, being the result of what amounts to light | collusion from automakers to offer nothing else. Since the | accident, forced to have dealt with a process that I had been | able to avoid up to that point by sticking with my past purchase | and staving off the temptation for anything newer and shinier | (which wasn't really very tempting at all, given the status quo | in the car industry), I have become only more convinced of the | need for a reliable $5000 "Costco car". It's a special source of | despair knowing that low-income people get ensnared under the | current regime that ends with them thinking that the the best | option is to pour so much money into $10-20-30k cars that end up | being junk, or else risk gambling on something in a lower price | range. | | Musk professes to have a mission of weaning it off its addiction | to fossil fuels, but at Tesla's luxury car prices for what are | luxury products, it's not going to make much of a dent, at least | not very quickly. The availability of a no-frills EV with | reasonable (i.e. next to zero recurring) maintenance costs would | almost certainly contribute more to humanity than all the work so | far that's gone into SpaceX and Tesla combined. | IIAOPSW wrote: | Cars are a hidden drain on society. In part because, like you | said, its a $10k-$30k admission ticket just to participate in | society. In fact its worse than that, because people don't see | the hidden costs. When you pay for an Uber or a train ticket, | the full price of your transit is up front. When someone gets | in their car, they aren't thinking about all the effective | price of owning the car per day. They just see the immediate | marginal price of things like gas and tolls. As a result, they | have extremely skewed view and make deeply irrational choices. | Eg people see the sticker price of using Uber and think its | "obviously" more expensive than driving yourself. In truth, if | there are public transit options most of the time but you would | still sometimes be stranded without a car, taking an Uber up to | 3 times per week is cheaper than owning it yourself. | | Say you own a $36,500 car for 10 years. I'd call that a bit | more pricey than normal, but also a bit longer than normal. You | can buy cheaper but the lower quality won't last as long so | let's just use these numbers for now. When you work it out, | owning such a car will cost $10 per day just to have the | privilege of letting it sit in your drive way. Tack on | insurance price per day ($4.50 per day by some quote I looked | up) and effective maintenance costs ($? per day) and you've | already spent over $15 each day before even leaving your | garage. Even in your costco card example, say you treat it well | and made a $5000 car last for 3 years. That's still about $4.50 | per day just for the privilege of having it plus the insurance | (maybe a bit cheaper for the cheap car?). The "costco car" | option is still more expensive per day than taking the metro, | and that's before you even left your driveway! | | Cars are a racket! | com2kid wrote: | Sad this is down voted, IIAOPSW has a great point. | | We as a society pay a lot to support a car infrastructure. | From crappy land usage for parking lots, which necessitates | increased property taxes on everyone else, to land that could | be used for housing/businesses instead being used for roads. | | Add on top of that the number of injuries, and how much time | we have to spend in cars because we live in a society | designed around cars, personal vehicles are a huge dead | weight cost. | | I'm not saying everyone needs to give up their cars, but | families having more cars than people is insane. | lostlogin wrote: | > We as a society pay a lot to support a car | infrastructure. | | With a large part of the world having had lockdowns, I've | been surprised at the readiness to go back to normal where | cars are concerned. | | As someone currently locked down, the silence is amazing. I | hear the odd power tool, or pet, lots of bird song and | maybe some noisey human. I hear push bikes coming down the | hill, long before they pass me. | | The typical city noise of cars, engines, tyres, horns etc | is so very very obnoxious, quite apart from the points | raised above. | | There was an interesting thread here on HN recently on a | link between road noise and dementia. | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28499415 | mywittyname wrote: | Honestly, I don't think our auto industry is the result of soft | collusion at all. I think it's 95% due to market forces (and 5% | regulation that basically gives companies a break for producing | what the market wants). | | The car market naturally bifurcated itself such that wealthier | individuals buy new cars, that they trade in on a frequent | timeline, and are sold used to lower income buyers. | | The reason I believe this is because there have been tons of | great, small, cheap cars sold in the US, and they have never | succeeded. The quintessential example would be the Honda Fit or | Scion xB. Both were very cheap cars, with a relatively large, | usable interior, and rock solid reliability. None of these cars | lasted in the USA for more than two generations. And the second | gen xB is basically a totally different car from the first gen. | | For better or worse, the majority of low cost car buyers | believe in, "Why buy a new <cheap car> when you could get a | five year old <nice car> for the same price?" I honestly thinks | that the majority of buyers have been brainwashed to think that | used cars are always a better deal, because it's not uncommon | for lightly used cars to cost _more_ after two years than they | did new. That really only makes sense if used car shoppers aren | 't even bothering to price new cars. | | Another point of reference: the best selling vehicles in the | USA are all full sized pickup trucks. In their financial | statements, Ford reports the number of F150s sold for >$50k. | dubya wrote: | The Honda Fit is on its 4th generation and is still sold in | the US. I think it's a hybrid now. Mine is a 2008. | TheOtherHobbes wrote: | Many Americans buy cars for status display, not for | transport. | kube-system wrote: | That holds true for maybe one of the top fifteen best | sellers: https://www.newsweek.com/15-best-selling-cars- | us-2021-160697... | | The Camry isn't #1 because people are trying to look cool. | com2kid wrote: | > None of these cars lasted in the USA for more than two | generations. And the second gen xB is basically a totally | different car from the first gen. | | The 2nd gen xB had none of the charm of the first generation, | and then it wasn't updated for ages, then it vanished. | | Then Kia came along with the Soul and basically proved the | market for a box car was still there, it just had to be a | good value. | | IMHO Kia has gone down the same road with the Soul that | Toyota did with the xB, the new souls are larger and more | expensive, and they don't have as much personality. | madengr wrote: | Get a used Nissan Leaf. It is cheap, roomy, reliable, zero | maintenance, and safe (side air bags). With about 70 mile range | it only good for around town, but that covers 99% of use. I got | a two year old one with 19k miles for $8,500. | xnx wrote: | Like a peoples car. In german I think they would call this a | volkswagen. | WorldMaker wrote: | VW may be on the path to delivering such a "Costco EV car" in | the near future, but haven't hit it today. Their ID.3 is the | current closest, _isn 't sold in America_, and starts at | 33.900 Euros (roughly USD$39,700 at today's exchange rate). | xnx wrote: | Definitely. Volkswagen is very different now, but I believe | it has its origins in producing basic cars that anyone | could afford: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#1932 | %E2%80%931940:_... | llampx wrote: | VW is now an upmarket brand. Seat and Skoda are the | downmarket sister brands. | gmac wrote: | What's nice about that is that if you're not sucked in by | the lifestyle branding you can get what's basically a VW -- | VW, SEAT and Skoda share engines, gearboxes, even most of | the knobs and UI -- for quite a lot cheaper. SEAT and Skoda | list prices are somewhat lower, and dealers will knock more | off too, in my experience (we got a new SEAT at about 1/3rd | off). | mchusma wrote: | I would say Musk 100% agrees with the need to lower costs here, | and they are aggressively trying to get there. | | However, much better than low cost cars would be robo-taxis, as | the utilization rate on cars for people is low that this | dramatically changes the economics. Musk and others realize | this, which is why they are pursuing it so vigorously. | | Its much better for the poor and for the environment to have a | fleet of $30k cars @ 70% utilization than a bunch of $10k cars | at 5% utilization. | nicoburns wrote: | > Its much better for the poor and for the environment to | have a fleet of $30k cars @ 70% utilization than a bunch of | $10k cars at 5% utilization. | | Even better to have a functioning bus and cycle network! | downrightmike wrote: | We need a kind of bike type of car, everyone can get one fairly | easy and they are durable and last almost forever if you take | some care. In reality, we need to go back to walkable | neighborhoods with shops and cafes within a few minutes walk | and light rail to connect everything further. | throwaway89848b wrote: | After my accident, for a while I blew so much money on Lyft | to travel to the office and back, which was a fairly | straightforward 10-mile trip one-way. | | Later, after the pandemic started, I watched the movie 1922 | (although I don't really recommend). Having been through the | previous ordeal, the simplicity of the family's unassuming | farm truck was not unnoticed. For all the money I spent on | Lyft, I would have much more happily dropped it on a car | similar to the one from the movie, even if it meant open-air | cooling (no AC) and a top speed of 35mph. | clairity wrote: | regular and electric bikes. let's replace parking on major | urban streets with dedicated, protected bike lanes. along | with dedicated bus lanes with synchronized lights, we could | replace a lot of car trips with just these two changes in how | we use our existing streets. | zip1234 wrote: | Would make everywhere so much quieter, less polluted, and | more pleasant. | clairity wrote: | LA, where i live, is so perfect for these two changes | (given the mostly mild year-round weather and relative | flatness) that it pains me every day looking at how | poorly we're using our limited land and air resources | (including the relative dearth of dense mixed-use along | major corridors). | llampx wrote: | People love parking on the I-405 and would fight you if | you took that away from them. | bserge wrote: | Electric tricycles, pretty damn good if your city has a well | developed bike lane network. | | The prices though... | clipradiowallet wrote: | I like your "Costco car" phrase! When I read the article, I saw | a car under $5000 that fits the needs of _many_ US citizens | automotive needs and thought "why can't we have that over | here?"... instead we're pushed $50,000 pickup trucks and cars | capable of reaching 150+ mph with price tags to match. We need | the "Costco car" you speak of! | mywittyname wrote: | Nobody in the USA will buy it. Anyone who claims they will, | and doesn't own a Mitsubishi Mirage or first-gen Nissan Versa | is lying. These cars stayed under $10k new for a while, and | yet never really sold well in the USA. It was even possible | to get a Ford Fiesta for <$10k new after discounts up until | they stopped selling them in the USA. They seriously sat on | lots for 2-3 years before being auctioned off (and probably | sold at used car dealerships for more than they sold for | new). | | Americans don't buy cheap new cars, and it's not because they | don't exist. Manufactures would love to get Americans buying | cheap new cars, but Americans stubbornly refuse to. They | claim to want cheap new cars, but they take one look at an | actually cheap car and decide that a 10 year old <nice car> | is a better buy. | maxsilver wrote: | > why can't we have that over here?" (snip) We need the | "Costco car" you speak of! | | We already have them. A "Costco Car" built to meet all | minimum US safety standards is how you get stuff like the | 2021 Chevy Spark (retail out-the-door price of about $14,000 | brand new - https://www.chevrolet.com/cars/spark . It's cheap | enough that a working fresh graduate could buy one brand new, | off-the-lot. (approx $240/month or so on a 60 month loan) | | Most people don't like "Costco Cars". Stuff like the Chevy | Spark, or Mitsubishi Mirage, or the Nissan Versa -- they | generally aren't as comfortable in seats or interior trim or | interior features, they aren't as fun to drive, they tend to | be louder and lighter which can make them feel unsafe (even | though they aren't), they aren't very big or roomy, they | generally won't impress anybody, etc. | | But you can buy a "Costco Car" from any Chevy dealership | anywhere in the US today, if you really want one. | WorldMaker wrote: | The above commenter was saying we needed a "Costco Car" | that was actually an EV to increase EV sales. Despite it's | EV sounding name the Chevy Spark to date has never been an | EV. | | Chevy's Bolt, their current closest to an entry model EV, | still starts at $36,500. | josephcsible wrote: | > the Chevy Spark to date has never been an EV. | | Yes it has: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Spark_EV | | > Chevy's Bolt, their current closest to an entry model | EV, still starts at $36,500. | | It starts at $31,000. | kube-system wrote: | Before the chip shortage, it was pretty easy to find a new | Mitsubishi Mirage on dealers lots marked down to $9,999 | kcb wrote: | One reason unfortunately is you have to share the road with | those $50k pickup trucks and I would not want to be in a | $5000 box anywhere near those things. I've seen a video once | of a lifted pickup hitting a small economy hatchback. It was | horrific. | WorldMaker wrote: | US states need to start regulating the sizes of trucks | again. | kube-system wrote: | Many lifted pickups already violate regulations in most | places, they're just not enforced. | handrous wrote: | We 100% do, but there'd be an actual revolt. People'd | die. I'm not joking. Folks who love their giant trucks | _really love_ their giant trucks. | mywittyname wrote: | People die already because these regulations are not | enforced. | handrous wrote: | Absolutely, but successfully enacting such measures would | mean _political violence_ , which is a whole different | thing from traffic deaths, and even attempting it would | probably lead to a wave of elections going toward the | party promising not to do it (and likely to do a bunch of | other things that are the governance equivalent of | punching yourself in the face--god, our politics are dumb | in this country). You think people get upset about any | hint of _gun_ regulation, look out if you go after big | trucks. No-one 's going to be crazy enough to try it, | though yes, we definitely should take measures to | drastically reduce the number of large personal vehicles | on the road, in an ideal world. | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: | > I have become only more convinced of the need for a reliable | $5000 "Costco car". | | As a person who hates cars and think they are ludicrously | expensive, I agree. My next car will be an e-bike if I can get | away with it, because that's probably the closest thing there | is to a $5000 reliable car. | giardini wrote: | But in many cities an e-bike is a prelude to a deadly | accident. In my big city, drivers routinely run over cyclists | (usually hit-and-run). | llampx wrote: | I fully agree. And this obsession with shiny delicate paint | everywhere, so that even the slightest smudge shows up making | the car look worn and dirty and old. On top of that, the | slightest dent can't be popped or hammered out, and it just | encourages the viewing of cars as lifestyle items rather than | utilitarian ones. | kiba wrote: | If the best part is no part, than we have to ask ourselves if | we truly need a car for daily living or that we could transform | society in such a way that don't require cars for daily living. | | What do we need a car for? To transport heavy objects or people | over distance longer than a bicycle or a human in a reasonable | amount of time in a manner more flexible than a bus or a train. | throwaway89848b wrote: | I agree with this in principle, and would have agreed even | prior to the accident, but in reality, after the period where | I was forced into a "no car" lifestyle, yes, you actually do | need a car in the meantime, at least while waiting for | society to transform itself. | KingMachiavelli wrote: | China has about twice the purchasing power of the US. So the | Chery QQ would be like buying a $8k car in the US accounting | for PPP. Outside of the current pandemic used car market, $8K | will buy a pretty great used car and will be more practical | than the Chery QQ. e.g. I can buy a 2003 Honda Pilot 4WD for | $5,600 which probably has a good 200k miles left. | | People buy expensive cars because they want expensive stuff and | don't know any better. As long as these people exist the cheap | vehicle market will be fulfilled by used vehicles. It would be | hard to make a new vehicle compete with a slightly used one at | the same price because newer vehicles are subject to higher | taxes and emissions standards. | | That said we certainly need cheap electric vehicles which means | we need enough new EVs so that the used EV market grows. The | Cherry QQ only has a range of ~120 miles and top speed of | 60mph. I just looked and I can get a used 2015 Nissan Leaf S | for $12K which is a much better value overall. | | Funny enough I found a used, road-legal electric 'golf-cart' | car for sale for 8K: | https://boulder.craigslist.org/cto/d/boulder-citecar/7373397... | llampx wrote: | > e.g. I can buy a 2003 Honda Pilot 4WD for $5,600 which | probably has a good 200k miles left. | | I frankly would not take that bet. There are many | catastrophic (costing more than the purchase price) repairs | that can come up between 100k and 200k. If its survived that | long it probably has more left in it, but a lot depends on | how its been driven and maintained. | bserge wrote: | Not if you do it yourself. E.g. $900 for a diesel pump | change vs $200 + a Saturday. But that's always been the | case. | [deleted] | lgleason wrote: | A car that sells new for the price of the Chery is not going to | have good safety measures and will be a death trap in an | accident. Cars today can last a long time if you take care of | them. New they cost a lot, but after about 10 years most are in | a much more affordable price range. Sure you may have to spend | a little more on maintenance, but still. | | The key with all of this is spending the time to maintain them | mechanically and physically. I have always done that which is | why I am still driving a 20 and 17 year old cars (along with a | newer Chevy Volt). Most people think they look close to being | like new. | | Sure it takes some time to wash them myself, add protective | sealants/polishes to the outside, protectant in the inside, | leather preservers to the seats, keep up on the repairs etc., | but the reduced insurance costs and overall running costs make | it an easy thing to do. | | In the US most people do not take care of their cars, | mechanically and physically they often start to look really bad | after about 10-15 years (even in the milder southern and | western climates) and people just junk them and buy new. In | some other countries people take care of them and you see the | net result of people with cars over 20 years old in good | condition still being driven. | asdff wrote: | It doesn't have to be a car. Give me a viable ebike that | doesnt' cost at least $1000. It doesn't exist in the market | right now. | psychometry wrote: | That car would be a death trap in the U.S. because most | Americans feel the need to choose their personal vehicle as | if it's some sort of urban tank. It would get crushed by even | a small SUV or truck. | | I'd love to live in a world where it's safe to be on the road | driving a scooter, moped, smartcar, etc., without worrying if | Karen in her Humvee is going to flatten me because she | literally can't see the street within 20ft of her bumper. | throwaway89848b wrote: | That's the story, but it doesn't hold up in the general case. | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21167942 | | My car (at 200,000+ miles at the time of the accident) was | exactly such a case of "take care of it, and all will be | well", which is why I was able to avoid dealing with the | nightmare that is the auto industry today. (It's also why I | still think of _that_ one as "my car," while the others I | own today do not.) Again, being well-aware of the worth of a | car that is well taken care of by experiencing it firsthand | and having spent some time looking for something that would | allow me to replicate the previous 10+ years of car | ownership, you're not really teaching me anything. Because at | the end of the day, it comes down to the affordances offered | to you by the market, and the market deals in junk. | kube-system wrote: | > My car (at 200,000+ miles at the time of the accident) | was exactly such a case of "take care of it, and all will | be well" | | Bargain priced domestic-market cars in China have a | reputation for needing major repairs within the first | couple years of ownership. | | We had vehicles like this in the US in the 70s -- it is | possible to build vehicles very cheaply with the use of | cheap materials. But today, even the cheapest cars in the | US make extensive use of anticorrosive coatings, ultra- | high-strength steel, and have extensive active and passive | safety systems. | maxsilver wrote: | I don't know what you are expecting. A 200k mile car that | lasted ten years before an accident _is_ something I would | consider as "well built". | | How many miles do you drive each year? What kind of car did | you expect to get, and how many miles+years would you | expect it to operate at to be considered "well built". | throwaway89848b wrote: | You have misunderstood something. Yes, that car was worth | the price. It is the benchmark against which I am | measuring newer cars. "Cars today", which is what we are | talking about, give an experience that is unlike that | one. (Including the Chevy Bolt @ $14k that you mention in | your other comment, which is more like a Walmart car than | a Costco car, and nowhere close to the price point I | mentioned or the cost/value ratio of the reference car.) | That that car lasted 200k, and would have been on its way | to last another 100k at least, underscores my point, not | undermines it. | | For the reason above, the question is not "What kind of | car did you expect?" It's "What kind of car _do_ you | expect to get? " And the answer is, "Considering the | opportunity we have had to make technological progress, I | would expect that I should be able to find a car today | that is _at least_ as good as that one. I should | definitely _not_ expect to be disappointed to find that | as a general rule what 's available is so much worse." | lostlogin wrote: | > How many miles do you drive each year? | | Maybe the OP bought it with 190k on the clock, but surely | the answer is going to be close to 200k/10? | masterof0 wrote: | I don't buy on billionaires dreams, if Elon wanted to help | humanity, he would focus on making Teslas more affordable | and/or other projects that impact more closely the | environment/people's life. Obviously, everyone spend their | money in the way they want, but the non ending hypocrisy coming | from those people is truly disgusting. | boardwaalk wrote: | Tesla doesn't have to be the one that makes the cheap car | (even though indications are that they will, at least for the | Asian markets) -- making electric cars that are cool and | capable and prove that it can be done it still immensely | valuable. | | And there are plenty of electric cars in the same rough | segment as the Model 3 -- but not many much cheaper. Which | should probably tell you something about how easy/feasible it | is. Tesla nor anyone else has a magic wand here. | coenhyde wrote: | Tesla is focused on making more affordable cars. But they | need to get to a level of scale which will enable cheaper | cars. There are basic economics related to battery production | which prevent a really affordable car atm. This the problem | they are solving right now. The Model 2 is expected to be | announced in 2023. That will be their $25k car. And I would | imagine later in the decade they will be able to release a | car sub $20k. | wil421 wrote: | What are the safety measures on these things? Last time I saw | pics of Chinese low cost EVs they were what we would call golf | carts in the US. Golf carts with a shell. | TheSmiddy wrote: | The golf cart tuk tuks are usually relegated to the slow lane | (25km/hr, usually seperated from main traffic with a median | strip, shared with bicycles and ebikes alike) they're also | really uncommon in cities, primarily seen in rural areas. | | This car looks like it's about halfway between those and a | smart car so the safety features are going to be pretty | critical if it's sharing the road with full size cars full | time. | | China's traffic is generally slow and always feels dangerous, | moving much more like water compared to Australia and the US | where it's fast and feels safe all the time until it's suddenly | fatal. Due to the nature of traffic the safety profile | requirements there don't quite match those in the west. | seanmcdirmid wrote: | China's traffic feels more dangerous because it is: they have | 50% more auto accident related deaths than the USA does (see | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r. | ..). My Hunanese wife's dad was killed by one of those | loosely regulated and very dangerous blue trucks (if you live | in China, you know what I mean). I've seen someone die in a | traffic accident before in Beijing (this person was biking | across the street (dongzhimen wai) against a red light, and | got hit by a taxi cab trying to beat the light before it | turned red the other way). You can never really get that | image/sound out of your head (and things slow down when you | see it, to be fair, the cyclist was clearly at fault, but the | taxi driver was also speeding). | ycombigator wrote: | You usually get what you pay for... | bserge wrote: | Probably better than a bicycle. Good enough tbh, but maybe not | for the US. | zip1234 wrote: | America needs to embrace more cars like these and lower speeds | in cities. Lower speeds==less safety measures needed. Not only | that but less noise, less pollution, safer for everyone around. | wil421 wrote: | We need more light rail options instead of lower speeds. It's | hard to go fast in most city centers anyway. | onepointsixC wrote: | This. The answer to congestion isn't more cars that are | smaller and slower, it's better public transit. | seanmcdirmid wrote: | > America needs to embrace more cars like these and lower | speeds in cities. Lower speeds==less safety measures needed. | Not only that but less noise, less pollution, safer for | everyone around. | | I don't think these cars are very safe even in, or actually | especially in, China. It is just that China tolerates a lot | more auto accident related deaths than the USA does. | eptcyka wrote: | Instead of more cars, why not optimize for more public | transport, bicycles and pedestrians? Cars suck in cities. | kube-system wrote: | Most US cities currently have highways that go through them, | and the majority of people who drive in those cities live in | the suburbs. For those living in cities, the public transit | is a much better solution nearly in every way, compared to | personal transportation devices that evade safety | regulations. | WorldMaker wrote: | America is trapped in a tragedy of the commons that states | stopped regulating vehicle size and marketers capitalized on | selling "bigger vehicle size = safer" despite that being a | tautology caused by that very tragedy of the commons: bigger | vehicle size is less safe to other vehicles on the road (and | pedestrians/bicyclists!) therefore to compete for relative | safety more people feel the need for bigger vehicle sizes to | improve their safety with respect to others' big vehicle | purchases. It's gross on so many levels. | uselesscynicism wrote: | In addition, EPA rules made it impossible to build sedans | and wagons with the performance desired by consumers, which | is what caused the death of the station wagon and the birth | of the SUV, which according to the EPA is a light truck and | is subject to different emissions rules. | | Now everybody with three or more kids is practically | required to buy a van or SUV because you can almost never | fit three car seats in the backseat of an EPA approved | sedan. | | So families buy larger vehicles, which have the problem | described above, and the EPA doesn't even succeed at | regulating the market | com2kid wrote: | > In addition, EPA rules made it impossible to build | sedans and wagons with the performance desired by | consumers, | | To elaborate, current CAFE standards have a gap where | station wagons used to be, that basically makes it | impossible to make a modern station wagon. By declaring | SUVs as light trucks, they aren't impacted by the same | rules as a station wagon would be. | | tl;dr light weight high volume cars are literally not | legal to make[0] and [1] unless tiny little baby engines | are put in which would put these cars down market. | | I'm hoping moving to EVs resolve this entire issue. | | [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_average_fuel_e | conomy...) | | [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_average_fuel_e | conomy...) | WorldMaker wrote: | I'm also hoping that EVs encourage a bigger reinvestment | in alternative form factors like the station wagon/estate | car/shooting brake. So far most of the manufacturers of | EVs are sticking to existing truck/SUV trends playing it | safe, but now that enough of the major manufacturers are | using standardized platforms where they can easily play | with the form factor above the "skateboard" core we'll | start seeing more EV diversity than ever before sooner | rather than later. | | (VW Group has an EV station wagon Porsche now [a variant | of the Taycan EV], and that's probably wildly out of most | family's budgets, but if VW Group is playing with that on | the MEB at the luxury end, hopefully that means they are | already considering how to play with that on the low end | as well.) | ARandomerDude wrote: | Except there are so many commercial vehicles on the road | that actually require substantial size (package delivery, | carpenters, etc.), not to mention all the 18-wheel trucks. | | Given that situation, it makes sense that families would | want larger (safer) vehicles. | | Most of America doesn't live in a 2-person highrise | apartment. | lostlogin wrote: | > Given that situation, it makes sense that families | would want larger (safer) vehicles. | | This will protect them from the large, dangerous vehicles | out there. | | It starts to look like an arms race quite quickly. | WorldMaker wrote: | 18-wheel trucks require Commercial Driver's Licenses | (CDLs) with stricter requirements, enforced regulation, | and stricter safety oversight. Originally, so did package | delivery vans and trucks in many states. It was | deregulated by most states so that CDLs were no longer | required for several classes of large trucks and vans, | and it is those same deregulations that have allowed many | "residential" vehicles to grow in size to fit those older | categories that used to be classed solely for commercial | vehicles (with stricter licensing standards and safety | oversight). | | The safety problem _isn 't_ and never has been commercial | vehicles, it has been that America has let the definition | of commercial vehicle erode to the point that many | Americans believe that exorbitantly sized commercial | vehicles make decent residential vehicles. | el_nahual wrote: | Yes, those commercial vehicles are on the road but they | don't _have_ to be on the road at the same time most | people are on the road. | | The idea that most Americans live in some sort of farm is | actually wrong. Over 80% of Americans live somewhere | urban. And yes, trucks, deliveries, etc should not be | allowed to drive in urban areas except at night and in | the early morning: for traffic and safety. | | This should be regulated in Manhattan as well as Des | Moines, and even in cities like Houston where the | interstate is used for local trips. Driving a truck? Take | the detour that skips Houston entirely during the day. | wyager wrote: | 90% of the people I know with big cars use them because | they have jobs, hobbies, or interests that require the | transportation of materials and equipment that would be | difficult or impossible to transport in a small car, or | because they live somewhere that requires a vehicle robust | against difficult driving conditions. I don't think | "big=safe" is a super popular reason to get a big car, | especially given the cost difference vs a commuter car or | whatever. | adventured wrote: | I've lived in areas with serious snowfall and icy road | conditions that you have to deal with 4-5 months out of | the year, most of my life. These small, lightweight, weak | EVs are a bad joke in that context, they'd be useless. | | NYC, Chicago, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Salt Lake | City, Denver, Detroit, etc. have some terrible Winter | weather for example. You can't safely, effectively | navigate Winter weather in NYC in a vehicle like the | Chery QQ Ice Cream. At best it'd be good ~2/3 of the | year. | autoliteInline wrote: | You do have to wonder how people drove around when | scarcely any vehicle was AWD/4WD. | | Having said that, good snow tires are magic. | germ wrote: | This. Regulating seasonal snow tire/chain usage in areas | with lots of snow/ice is imperative to reducing | collisions and improving safety. That and decent | infrastructure for clearing snow in a fairly timely | manner. | | All seasons can't and _wont_ cut it in some areas, and | having tires that only work 3/4s of the year for traction | is dicey at best. | | Source: I drive a Miata in winter up in Saskatchewan | murderfs wrote: | > These small, lightweight, weak EVs are a bad joke in | that context, they'd be useless. | | [citation needed] | | Power is not the limiting factor in icy road conditions, | traction is. While a heavier car is easier to get moving | due to increased normal force, it's equally harder to | stop. The actual difference makers are snow tires so you | have more traction, and electronic stability | control/antilock brakes so you never lose traction. | com2kid wrote: | From what I understand, upgrading a 2 wheel drive EV to a | 4 wheel EV isn't a horribly hard thing to do. | | Driving on snow/iced doesn't require power, it requires | good tires and an understanding of how to drive on snow | and ice. | | I do wonder if the engine in it could get up Seattle | hills though, my family's old Geo Metro had problems, so | something with a fraction of the power could prove | problematic. | autoliteInline wrote: | It would be interesting to know just how many cars ever | have their back seats used. | | You can argue that the average car should either be a 2wd | Tacoma or a Miata. | lallysingh wrote: | It's not big as much as tall. Going from my truck to a | rental car is a vulnerable change! My truck is | inefficient and big, but we keep it because it can carry | both our kids and our dog. | gorbachev wrote: | You should come and see my kid's school during drop off | and pick up. | | The number of soccer moms driving Escalades and other | oversized SUVs in their high heels would heal your | misconceptions about large car ownership in the US. | handrous wrote: | > I don't think "big=safe" is a super popular reason to | get a big car, especially given the cost difference vs a | commuter car or whatever. | | Counter-anecdote: that's _exactly_ the reason given by a | lot of people I know who like SUVs, especially. Maybe | alongside "it can carry lots of stuff", but sometimes | all on its own. | WorldMaker wrote: | Anecdata for anecdata, I've never seen 90% of big cars on | the roads around ever regularly carry more than one | passenger at a time to/from a desk job (or a meal | commute) that doesn't need any large hauling ever. | | "Big=safe" may not be _smart_ reason to get a big car, | but it 's absolutely a _common_ ( "popular") one in the | US today. Just looking at how cars are advertised, | there's basically two main marketing pushes "just look | how safe it keeps your family" and "just look at the | hobbies it could let you do that you probably won't | actually do but think you will", and yes that second one | is a pretty equally common reason people buy them, but | both messages get about equal air time in the US and seem | common in reasons people buy them. | | I realize I'm very dismissive of people buying them for | "hobbies/interests", but over-buying capacity based on | "perceived need that doesn't actually exist" is a trap | that also makes the roads less safe and should be | regulated. | AlgorithmicTime wrote: | You buy for the times you will need the capacity? | | Am I hauling crap from Home Depot every day? No. But two | or three times a month I need to move a bunch of stuff, | be it lumber, mulch, or doors. So I have a vehicle that | can do that, because not having that capability would | cost more per month in rental or delivery fees than | having that capability costs me. | yboris wrote: | One of my favorite philosophy papers: _Vehicles and | Crashes: Why is this Moral Issue Overlooked?_ by Douglas | Husak. Author argues that because of the high crash | incompatibility of SUVs, they are immoral - imposing | needless harm on others (and based on data, ironically, | with on average no benefit to those who drive them -- | because of higher rollover risks). | | https://www.jstor.org/stable/23562447 | knodi123 wrote: | The position "it is better to be harmed than to harm, if | you have to choose between the two" is certainly worth | discussing, but it would be such an uphill battle that | Sisyphus would probably prefer to return to his boulder. | NoGravitas wrote: | Yep. It would be fine to ban them on controlled-access | highways, but this would be great for in-town driving. | eptcyka wrote: | I wonder how many non-mutilated adults could it fit? | p1mrx wrote: | That depends; can we assume that these adults graduated from | clown school? | londons_explore wrote: | Food for thought... This costs about $6 per kg. That is about the | price of a meat. | | This mechanical horse may not be so different than a classic | horse... | ianbicking wrote: | I was quite disappointed that Car2Go didn't work out - it was a | car rental service similar to e-scooters, park anywhere, pay by | the minute. They used Smart cars, which were fine (they were | owned by Daimler), but it would have been a great system even | with cheaper cars and disallowing highway use. | | Seeing cars like this makes me wish someone would try it again | but with a different fleet. | cmckn wrote: | I was surprised when they shut down, because it seemed to work | well in Denver. There was always a car within a couple blocks, | and it was so much cheaper and nicer than Lyft IMO. | | I once drove a car2go from downtown to my apartment near the | university. This was after they started using Benz instead of | Smart cars. I parked it outside and went and took a nap, had | dinner, etc. About 6 hours later I left the apartment and | noticed the car was still out front...running. I had put it in | park and forgotten to turn it off. Customer service gave me a | bit of a deal on the cost I'd racked up. I still laugh about | it. | asdff wrote: | They had those at my uni, and during football games people | would get drunk and flip them onto their roof or push them into | the lake | paxys wrote: | Car2Go didn't work out because keeping their cars well- | distributed throughout the city was an impossible problem to | solve. Because of the "park anywhere" feature they would all | naturally cluster at a few hotspots very early in the day and | stay there. A by-the-minute car service is pointless if I have | to take a taxi to get to the car. | Matthias247 wrote: | Evo in Vancouver&Victoria (https://evo.ca/) has the same | model, but seems to work out. Up to now I was always able to | find a car in 10min walking distance. But obviously there's | some clusters of them at more frequent visited destinations. | thaumasiotes wrote: | > A by-the-minute car service is pointless if I have to take | a taxi to get to the car. | | I had the same problem when I was considering using Zipcar to | visit Santa Cruz from San Francisco. I had no problem paying | Zipcar's rate for the time it would take to travel. But | Zipcar charges you for the time between when you take the car | out of its designated parking spot and when you return it to | the same designated parking spot, which completely defeats | the purpose. | etskinner wrote: | Assuming that a large part of the reason they 'stay there' | early in the day is because people are at work, doesn't that | mean that they'll naturally be distributed back to where they | were when people return home? | | Traditional rental car services seem to have figured out how | to make it work, why can't pay-by-the-minute places do the | same? Something like demand-based pricing seems like it would | work well for this. | paxys wrote: | Most of these cars _were_ used exactly for this purpose. In | Seattle they would drive people from all over the city to | Amazon 's offices (in South Lake Union) in the morning, and | back in the evening. However, the cars being used twice a | day for 10-20 mins isn't exactly a winning business model | for the company. | kennywinker wrote: | In Vancouver we have a local service (evo) that was competing | with car2go, but since car2go pulled out they seem to be | doing quite well. I suspect the reason car2go "failed" was | that it was more about pushing the smartcar into the north | american market that was fairly reluctant to buy smaller | cars, than it was about actually providing that service. When | smartcars showed they weren't going to take off here, they | had no reason to keep it going. | ianbicking wrote: | Yeah, I've heard the theory car2go was all an attempt to | advertise Smart cars, which I thought was weird... I liked | the car2go service but I would never want to buy one of | those cars, they drove like crap. For the purpose of | getting around they were fine, but nothing more. | | Are Smart cars always that crappy, or were the models used | for Car2go particularly inferior? I'm not sure what the | transmission was, but it wasn't a normal automatic - you | could feel it go into neutral (losing power) and then | engage at a higher gear. | zubiaur wrote: | It was an automated manual transmission. You described | exactly what it was happening. The car was disengaging | the clutch, changing gears, after witch it would reengage | the clutch. | | It was crap. | lima wrote: | Car2Go is still around in some European cities! | criddell wrote: | Without big regulatory changes around private ownership, cars | like this one make me think that the idea of a massive shared | fleet is doomed _if_ self driving becomes a reality. | | When cars become mostly about tech, tech will do what it always | does - get cheaper and better. The total cost per trip will | drop through the floor. People will buy more cars and urban | sprawl will go crazy. | | If I could send out my car without a driver to run errands for | me, I would do it all the time. Lots of stores already have | curbside delivery set up so it would be easy to adapt that for | driverless cars. | | There are other effects as well. For example, if accident rates | plummet, car insurance will get cheap and that industry will | implode. | Sevii wrote: | I expect the opposite. With self-driving cars the cost of an | Uber drops significantly. Instead of more cars we will end up | with less cars at higher utilization. Why would you | personally own a car when Uber is 10x cheaper for all use | cases of a personal vehicle? | | I'd be more worried about what happens when all cars are | controlled by 2 massive tech companies. | criddell wrote: | At least in the US, people generally aren't all that price | sensitive about their car. They spend a lot more money on | cars than they strictly need to and I don't expect that to | change. There are exceptions though (NYC is a big one). | | If anything, the kinds of personalization you will be able | to do with something like the car in the article are pretty | big. I could see people buying them like they buy their | phones. Pay $200 / month and get a new car every two years. | | > Why would you personally own a car | | For me, it's because shared cars are usually nasty inside. | Plus, the pandemic has me thinking about the safety of | shared spaces. My car is an extension of my home and I feel | safe in it. | | > what happens when all cars are controlled by 2 massive | tech companies | | Why would the car companies even sell cars for shared use? | Setting up a company like Uber has never been easier and | it's getting more easy all the time. Why wouldn't the car | companies create their own car share services? | Dylan16807 wrote: | The wear on a car costs about as much as paying someone to | drive it. The costs can only go so low, and the cost of | personal ownership is still going to be higher than a fleet | because the car sits around more. And if they're so cheap I'd | still expect to see instant rental/taxi fleets. | | As for people buying more cars, so many people already have | cars that I don't imagine that having a huge effect. | | So overall I disagree with your conclusions. | tuatoru wrote: | > so many people already have cars that I don't imagine | that having a huge effect. | | Instead of one car per adult, it'll be one car per person | once the kids get to primary school age in suburban | families. | | There are a lot of elderly and disabled people would own | cars if they were self-driving and a bit cheaper than they | are now. Many people currently using public transport might | switch, too. That group might use shared cars, but the | others are unlikely to. | | The effect might be bigger than one would think. | | Edit: the effect on traffic volume and congestion will be | bigger. Freed from the burden of driving, commuters will be | able to live further away from their jobs. Empty cars will | be a significant fraction of vehicles on the road. | bialpio wrote: | > Instead of one car per adult, it'll be one car per | person once the kids get to primary school age in | suburban families. | | I was actually thinking that it would reduce car | ownership. If I could commute and then send the car to | home so that my wife could commute to her workplace, I | definitely would! It would require syncing on who uses | the car when, but at a more granular level compared to | now ("I'm taking the car today" vs "I'm taking the car | between 8-9am"). | slackstation wrote: | The wear on electric cars is significantly cheaper. No | pistons, no oil, no gears, no transmission, no exaust | system, no series of gaskets for the coolant to flow | through the engine block. In fact, electric motors only | have metal to metal contact at bearings, the actual forced | produced is without metal to metal contact. | | Fleet prices for electric cars today are already | significantly cheaper. In the future, probably more so. | ABeeSea wrote: | They killed themselves when they converted their fleet from | Smart cars to full-sizes Mercedes. The new fleet was impossible | to park. It was such an obvious mistake even at the time. Their | users loved the smart cars. | | https://www.geekwire.com/2017/car2go-dropping-smart-cars-sea... | mschild wrote: | Anecdotal, but I've used Car2Go extensively and HATED the | smart cars. Always felt like they would fall apart the next | time I accelerated. | | Car2Go (Mercedes) merged with DriveNow (BMW) and are now | called ShareNow. VW also runs a service called WeShare. Its | somewhat successfull in Germany. I regularly use them in | Berlin. | | ShareNow also only uses VWs electric cara. Mostly last gen VW | Golf-e but recently also some ID.3 cars. | llampx wrote: | I also use ShareNow in Berlin. Another competitor is | getaround, formerly Drivy, which is an Airbnb for rental | cars. | flemhans wrote: | In Denmark, ShareNow's fleet is mostly BMW i3. | zwieback wrote: | I've been enjoying the writeups about the cheap Changli Jalopnik | has been running: | | https://jalopnik.com/the-changli-at-one-how-the-cheapest-new... | | The QQ looks a lot nicer, like an actual car. | zip1234 wrote: | Wow, had not seen that before--$1200 for a new car is | incredible. | WorldMaker wrote: | It's mentioned in one of the follow up articles to that one, | and I don't recall which, but the the second generation of the | Changli went way more "actual car" in styling and looks | extremely similar to the QQ today: https://www.changliev.com/ | | (ETA: I've also loved following the Changli chronicles on | Jalopnik, and people don't believe me when I say that the car | industry needs to be keeping an eye on Chinese EV companies | because they are doing really interesting things in the low end | of the cost spectrum that could catch other manufacturers by | surprise.) | siva7 wrote: | A decent e-bike costs that much. Somehow pricing in mobility is | really confusing | vondur wrote: | Hell, Specialized has an electric assisted mountain bike that | goes for $15k. | [deleted] | bserge wrote: | Bikes in general are a ripoff. I wonder if it's because they | sell poorly so the prices must be high or it's just some sort | of monopoly (perhaps tied in with the bike theft mafia) :D | jay_kyburz wrote: | I think e-scooters will shake it up a bit. I chose a scooter | over an e-bike because it was a third of the price, half the | weight to carry up stars when I get to the office, and didn't | need peddling. | | I also find standing up for my 15 minute commute far more | comfortable that the hard saddles that seem to be in fashion | on bikes these days. | mikepurvis wrote: | Really? I wouldn't have said so. Yes, if bikes had the scale | and vertical integration that automobiles do, they could be | somewhat cheaper, but the price point has never felt | unreasonable to me. | | Particularly given the fairly smooth ramp from Walmart | special ($100-200) through to entry level "good" bike at a | sporting goods store ($300-600) to an actually-good specialty | bike store bike and ultimately pro-am ($800-$2000+). And | across all these tiers, there's typically a robust second- | hand market in most places, though at the higher levels | you'll find it via local riding club forums and so on rather | than FB Marketplace. | lnanek2 wrote: | I've never had an issue with my $200 used bike for commuting | 45 minutes to work, honestly. Those multi-thousand dollar | carbon fiber things are just for racers and status symbols | and minor improvements, basically. There are people at my | company who use their bike for the Malibu Triathlon, etc. but | if you are cost conscious, it's not actually necessary to pay | so much. | sva_ wrote: | Perhaps a duopoly. Shimano and Sram probably run the high-end | mass market for most bike components. And in the case of | e-bikes, the batteries are pretty pricey. | | It's an industry that could use some disruption. Maybe it's | too old-school a business though, and the margins are too low | for today's entrepreneurs. | sudosysgen wrote: | The batteries really aren't that pricey. Most ebike have | 100-200$ worth of cells and BMS electronics in them. | | The batteries are sold at a massive markup. | dr-detroit wrote: | Start a job search for factory workers and let me know how | that works out for you. | sudosysgen wrote: | Economies of scale and diminishing returns. You can definitely | build an excellent ebike for 1000 USD. | dr-detroit wrote: | the bike industry is dominated by gearheads same as the auto | industry | seanmcdirmid wrote: | > A decent e-bike costs that much | | This is not a decent car. You are comparing an e-bike that is | likely going to be bought by someone rich with a car that is | likely going to be bought by someone poor. Also, China has | plenty of e-bikes that are really cheap (and finding a decent | one for $4k is really hard, it will probably cost $8k over | there). | Toutouxc wrote: | Driving this thing at 80 km/h in normal car traffic is, IMO, | suicide. | | The only thing that prevents me from riding an e-scooter to work | every day is bad weather, so I would actually love if we aimed | even lower for personal city mobility. Make the vehicle weigh | around 120 kg or so. Make it go 30 km/h tops, that's still | plenty. Make it have a single seat, a roof, windshield, two front | wheels, one rear wheel and a 1-2kW wheel hub motor. | | A vehicle like that that could use [some of] the bicycle | infrastructure we already have and would be significantly cheaper | and easier to operate and maintain than a full-size car, while | still offering acceptable comfort for <1h commutes. | | (I live and work in Prague, Czech Republic, Europe.) | ajay-b wrote: | Like an Aptera? | | https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/1/22358355/aptera-ev-three-w... | jimkleiber wrote: | Yes I would love this, almost like an electric tuktuk[0] with | the two wheels in front. | | [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_rickshaw | thaumasiotes wrote: | > The only thing that prevents me from riding an e-scooter to | work every day is bad weather | | In the Chinese context, riding an e-scooter to work every day | is presumably fairly common, though much less common than | riding an unpowered bicycle. | | Bad weather is dealt with by wearing bike ponchos. | rosege wrote: | What you describe is in use in the Netherlands. Although when I | lived there I was never a fan of mixing motorised and | unmotorised on the bike paths. | xqcgrek2 wrote: | You want the Carver Electric https://carver.earth/en/ | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carver_(automotive_company) | makapuf wrote: | Maybe you know about renault twizy | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Twizy ? | emmanueloga_ wrote: | Any fans of EUCs? I'm considering getting one, not sure how | long it will take until it becomes a practical commuting | medium. [1] | | 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGOvSBJq-Bg | avasylev wrote: | EUC are good alternative to bicycles for commuting (or | recreation). They're a bit heavy to carry, but can be rolled | using handle like a travel bag with wheels. | | Be aware of safety, helmet is must, many wear motorcycle | gear. They are relatively easy to get started and go on very | high speed. Look online for safety tips and crash videos to | get a sense. | mschild wrote: | Would something like the BMW C1 suit your needs? [0] | | Its old but maybe you can find a cheap used one. | | [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_C1 | jareklupinski wrote: | After seeing this design in Funny Face, I wonder why we ever | lost it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VELAM | | You get in from the front! | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUXiQMozHkM | lastofthemojito wrote: | People didn't like their legs being part of the car's crumple | zone: https://carbuzz.com/news/famously-unsafe-bmw-isetta | techrat wrote: | When I first saw this car (pre-internet), it was in the music | video for Depeche Mode's "Never Let Me Down Again"... I | refused to believe it was a real model that wasn't just made | for the video. It just seemed so impractical. | londons_explore wrote: | Does this have a full fledged BLDC motor and regen braking? | | Early China low-cost EV's were simple brushed DC motors. In | today's world, brush less ought to be cheaper and better. All the | fancy features like traction control, regen, burst acceleration, | etc become entirely software features, so cost nothing if enough | units are sold. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-09-17 23:01 UTC)