[HN Gopher] Cinepaint: The long forgotten GIMP fork that once po...
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       Cinepaint: The long forgotten GIMP fork that once powered the
       cinema industry
        
       Author : marcodiego
       Score  : 64 points
       Date   : 2021-09-18 18:43 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (cinepaint.bigasterisk.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (cinepaint.bigasterisk.com)
        
       | autoliteInline wrote:
       | Weird, never heard of it.
       | 
       | Does it overlap with Discreet or Softimage stuff?
        
         | Wistar wrote:
         | No. Cinepaint was merely a raster paint program with 16-bit
         | colorspace which made it suitable for feature work. It didn't
         | have programmable animation capability but did have onion
         | skinning so that cel-style animation could be done, albeit
         | painfully.
         | 
         | Edit: Oh, and that, very importantly, ran on SGI/IRIX.
        
           | autoliteInline wrote:
           | Oh. More like Lumena (Time Arts/John Dunn).
           | 
           | Amazing.
        
       | teruakohatu wrote:
       | According to its sourceforge page, Cinepaint is still being
       | maintained. The last update was in May.
        
         | ithinkso wrote:
         | Tangential but, Sourceforge, that's a name I haven't heard in a
         | long time... How are they doing?
        
           | djcapelis wrote:
           | Not great. Git and then GitHub ate their lunch and then they
           | ended up so desperate they did this: https://www.reddit.com/r
           | /OutOfTheLoop/comments/3aajjs/what_i...
           | 
           | So that pretty much caused whoever still used it to stop.
           | They sold to a new company who stopped that practice but I
           | can't think of many projects that want a managed SCM that
           | felt there was any reason to switch to sourceforge from
           | GitHub or gitlab after that, which is where most projects
           | have ended up one way or another.
           | 
           | Their new owners now call sourceforge a place for "business
           | software" which seems like hopefully the final stage which
           | will bring sourceforge's long slow decline to its end.
           | 
           | Edit: it looks like their latest owner (2020) is slashdot.
           | So. I guess they will capably oversee its continued slide to
           | irrelevance.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | Groxx wrote:
             | Yeah, the moment they started bundling crapware, the fall
             | was _extremely_ fast. It 's a hosting site that's fairly-
             | strongly correlated with technically-adept users: burn them
             | like this and they are _never_ coming back, and they 'll
             | loudly tell everyone they know to do likewise.
        
             | pwdisswordfish8 wrote:
             | "Their latest owner is Slashdot" is true, but it's true in
             | the sense that the company that both Sourceforge and
             | Slashdot _became_ Slashdot.
        
           | mlinksva wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CinePaint and
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SourceForge each seem to be
           | reasonably up to date.
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | It is interesting to think that GIMP once had such a lead but
       | today is playing catch-up. Blender and Krita area canonical
       | examples success stories in the are now.
        
       | mixmastamyk wrote:
       | Unfortunately, there's no info here about why it fell out of
       | favor. Only up to the rename.
        
         | rleigh wrote:
         | The inability of the GIMP developers to work with others to
         | incorporate needed features was the primary reason.
         | 
         | Look at the difference between how different open-source
         | projects operate. Some foster collaboration and encourage
         | outside contributions, e.g. Linux. Others are completely
         | insular and barely tolerate it. The GIMP maintainers fall into
         | the latter category. Unless you're part of the inner clique,
         | you won't get anything merged.
         | 
         | It's kind of sad that the Cinepaint people got several paid
         | staff to lift the GIMP functionality to the point it had very
         | high-profile commercial use with some really useful features,
         | and yet the GIMP developers were too stubborn to acknowledge
         | this effort and work with them to get the functionality into
         | the GIMP core.
         | 
         | Sadly, this is not unique to the GIMP. I, and other commercial
         | developers, had exactly the same experience with GTK+ and GNOME
         | libraries. The developers wanted to hack on their pet thing,
         | ignore outside contributions, and this is simply not compatible
         | with commercial timelines and realities. But it can be, and it
         | can work very well, for projects which are willing to engage
         | with outside work. It can work out to be very mutually
         | beneficial with some give and take on both sides. I was on the
         | GIMP mailing lists at the time and followed this saga for
         | years. It's a crying shame it was deliberately ignored.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | diskzero wrote:
         | We used it at DreamWorks Animation, but also had our own
         | various 2D bitmap editing tools.
         | 
         | I can think of a few reasons it fell out of favor in the 3D
         | animated film space. Any process that required artists to come
         | in after a render was complete is bad news for your budget. The
         | more you can accomplish inside of your surfacing and lighting
         | tools, the better.
         | 
         | For surface creation, artists in general would prefer to use
         | tools that they are familiar with, and if your pipeline can
         | support export from Photoshop, then that is they are going to
         | want to use.
         | 
         | While there are still a lot of proprietary tools in use for
         | lighting and rigging, the days of completely proprietary tool
         | chains and pipelines are over. Software suites of no longer
         | running on SGI boxes with a lot of proprietary formats. A lot
         | of work has been done on interchange formats so it is easier to
         | get your data in and out Maya, Photoshop, etc.
        
       | thanatos519 wrote:
       | My favourite memory of Cinepaint was being at a SIGGRAPH
       | exhibition booth (Silicon Grail's I presume) and seeing how they
       | were using GIMP/Cinepaint for wire removal in the X-Files movie.
       | I asked Yosh how the layers dialog looked and he popped it up. It
       | started loading all of the full-def movie frames to make
       | thumbnails, then the machine ran out of memory and IRIX crashed!
        
         | chrisseaton wrote:
         | What was considered full definition for digital work on a film
         | in 1998?
         | 
         | Toy Story was less than modern HD, yet you can pay extra to
         | stream it in 4K from Apple! Not sure how that works!
        
           | ollifi wrote:
           | Cineon 2K was 2048x1556
        
           | setpatchaddress wrote:
           | ISTR that the early Pixar movie were simply rerendered at
           | higher resolution from the original assets?
        
           | pwdisswordfish8 wrote:
           | What's confusing? They can re-render the scenes from the
           | original source. At some point in the transition from VHS to
           | DVD to Blu-Ray, they may have even done a "remastered" re-
           | release (hiring staff to touch up textures and so on), and if
           | so, they could make use of that work, too.
        
             | chrisseaton wrote:
             | > they may have even done a "remastered" re-release
             | 
             | Are you just guessing?
        
               | pwdisswordfish8 wrote:
               | Not guessing anything, because I didn't say it even
               | happened.
               | 
               | Whether it happened or not doesn't change that even if
               | the original theatrical version was 1536x922, re-
               | rendering for higher resolutions is trivial.
        
               | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
               | Rerendeirng old cinema cg is anything but trivial.
               | Production pipelines are incredibly complex and are a
               | fast moving target. Getting something going again is a
               | very complex and tedious task of software archeology
               | against projects that often only had a single company
               | using them. Many dependencies will be unavailable or
               | incompatible with current systems.
               | 
               | When old content that doesn't have a high resolution film
               | or digital master copy is remastered to HD, it's done
               | using super resolution tools that do their best to infer
               | extra detail based on the existing data.
        
               | Sesse__ wrote:
               | Also, often special effects are done as manual one-offs
               | on top of what comes out of the renderer (with whatever
               | software package and techniques that happened to fit the
               | bill for that particular effect); it's not like you can
               | just type "make" and out comes the movie. It's certainly
               | _easier_ to do a higher-res version of an animated movie
               | than a live-action one, but it's still a lot of work.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | themodelplumber wrote:
       | I used Cinepaint all the time back around 2005-2007. You could
       | work with 3D renders at higher bit depths, which meant a lot when
       | you were working with a limited-scope FOSS 3D package on a Linux
       | system in the first place. Much post was done. Thanks to those
       | who worked on the project!
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-18 23:00 UTC)