[HN Gopher] Paradise lost: The rise and ruin of Couchsurfing.com
___________________________________________________________________
Paradise lost: The rise and ruin of Couchsurfing.com
Author : jakobgreenfeld
Score : 214 points
Date : 2021-09-19 11:48 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.inputmag.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.inputmag.com)
| franze wrote:
| A friend of mine, she used to travel a lot, used it as a dating
| app.
|
| She said better as Tinder, more transparency and in the worst
| case still a comfy couch. She met her husband via it.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| I can definitely see the mechanism. On Tinder, people lie about
| themselves to make themselves more attractive. Couchsurfing
| info will likely be more honest.
| blunte wrote:
| One of my hosts did the same. She was more casual about it.
|
| But I also heard from people how they hated when guests would
| show up and start acting like it was for dating. So many
| profiles would explicitly state that they were not looking for
| dates.
| k__ wrote:
| Ah, so this really worked? What was the social contract here?
| blunte wrote:
| I think hosts learned to post very clearly if they were not
| looking for dates. That way potential guests would not
| misunderstand acceptance (for a place to stay) as also
| being a potential for romance. I saw plenty of host
| profiles that were very clear on their disinterest in
| romance. I did not see any profiles that said "looking for
| dates", as I'm sure that would not have worked out well...
| imagine the emailed photos they would receive...
|
| But in her case, she was super alpha female (gay), and I
| _think_ she had an eye for people who would be receptive to
| that. But she was also very cool, so I'm sure if she didn't
| get the right vibe she wouldn't push something that would
| become awkward.
|
| From my background, I wouldn't have advised single women to
| host men. But two of the people who hosted me were single
| women, so I guess they were just more comfortable (or
| perhaps Swiss people are less accustomed to bad behaviors?
| poorjohnmacafee wrote:
| Well "dating app" is a bit of a euphemism here for no strings
| attached sexual encounters since will be leaving soon, isn't
| it? Met guys who hosted primarily just for "easy hook ups", and
| am sure many woman enjoyed it for same reason. Nature of travel
| for most 20-somethings anyways.
| xapata wrote:
| That's what ruined it for me. Some time after AirBnB started,
| no one wanted to host my girlfriend and me as a pair. It
| seemed like all the people who just wanted to host travelers
| left for AirBnB and only the hookup-seekers remained.
| purple_ferret wrote:
| >more transparency
|
| Really...I always heard it was terrible for guys because people
| only wanted female guests, women because it probably meant they
| weren't interested in sex, men because it meant maybe they
| might get laid.
|
| The possibility of romance never really seemed like a
| transparent implication to me.
| nateberkopec wrote:
| Airbnb ruined Couchsurfing because it changed social expectations
| around hosting strangers at your house. Before Airbnb, no one
| really even thought people would pay for the privilege to sleep
| on your couch or your spare bedroom. But once Airbnb started
| getting popular, I think a lot of hosts on CS were thinking well,
| this is neat, but I could get paid doing this. And a lot of CS
| guests became refugees from Airbnb thinking "well, if Airbnb
| wants me to pay for this, why do I go to CS and get it for free?"
|
| I CS'd only once, in Ghana in 2011. It was great, but I was too
| late for the trend, it died pretty shortly after.
| glandium wrote:
| I can't tell about the US, but paying money to sleep in spare
| bedrooms was a thing in Europe well before Airbnb.
| xapata wrote:
| I was an avid Couchsurfer and early AirBnB host. Initially
| AirBnB had a vibe very similar to Couchsurfing. Both seemed to
| lose the personal touch as they became larger networks. Money
| exchange is highly influential as well, but I don't think we
| can cross off network scale from the causes.
| [deleted]
| carlsborg wrote:
| The social proof that a couch surfing reference brought was
| second to none. Each one boils down to this "I, a stranger,
| stayed for a few nights in this other strangers home for free,
| and they were good human beings". That social proof carried to
| any part of the globe you visited.
|
| I cannot think of an internet app that brought people together in
| a more meaningful and wholesome way at scale.
|
| It was great while it lasted.
| jessriedel wrote:
| I agree it's not the same, but AirBnB profiles with a long list
| of positive ratings as a guest play a similar role. "This
| person slept under my roof, acted well, and treated my home
| with respect". When I advertised my apartment for a sublet on
| Craigslist, I received a couple AirBnB profiles and considered
| them pretty compelling as references. I ended up subletting to
| one of those people, and they were great.
| robocat wrote:
| Does AirBnB provide a "super-guest" filter, or equivalent so
| that you can brainlessly and reliably filter for suitable
| guests?
|
| I would host independently minded guests that don't want/need
| hand-holding, and guests that are vetted for being socially
| respectful (tidy, no 3AM drunks, etcetera). My property is
| tobacco and alcohol free, which surprises friends, so I can
| imagine strangers being disrespectful.
|
| Do trustroots.org or movingworlds.org provide filtering? I
| really never want to have to trawl through reviews, because I
| find it wasteful and also I think reveiwers tend to avoid
| writing anything truthfully negative (allusions and omissions
| might occur, but are not always obvious).
| dkersten wrote:
| > That social proof carried to any part of the globe you
| visited.
|
| > I cannot think of an internet app that brought people
| together in a more meaningful and wholesome way at scale.
|
| It also carried over to friendships. For a few short months, I
| was one of the most active hosts in my city (mainly because we
| had a house with lots of space and all of my housemates were
| couchsurfers), until the landlord wanted to sell and we had to
| move. After that, when I could no longer host, couchsurfers
| were still my primary social group and we met up multiple times
| a week to hang out, party or do activities together. I miss
| those days. I also know at least three people who met their
| spouses through couchsurfing.
|
| On the other hand, my Airbnb experience was that of a cheaper
| hotel/rented accommodation, with no new friends, no social
| aspect, just a place to stay in exchange for money.
| marricks wrote:
| It seems like for any tech company to be successful and
| sustainable it has to destroy the openness and community it
| was born from. I discovered couch surfing right as my
| wandering days came to a close and I feel I sorely missed
| out.
| cainxinth wrote:
| Pareto principle. 80% of people are decent human beings, but
| the 20% that aren't cause 80% of the problems.
| im3w1l wrote:
| If only we had some kind of "credit score" but for social
| things..
| pope_meat wrote:
| And it should be algorithmically driven with all sorts of
| fun edge cases and poor maintenance.
|
| Edit: oh, and obviously closed source, and have it's entire
| db leak about once a year due to excellent security.
| smnplk wrote:
| Fei Chang You Qu ,Qing Gao Su Geng Duo
| ajsnigrutin wrote:
| Nah... surely there's no way that software could mess
| up... people have all kinds of strange ideas, like
| traffic cameras looking for people using phones, and tag
| a guy scratching his head.... this surely is impossible
| to happen in real life with modern software.
| kragen wrote:
| On Couchsurfing we did. The problem was that it was
| ultimately under the control of a small group of people,
| and they sold out.
| prashantsengar wrote:
| Hello from China
| Igelau wrote:
| The old Accidental Black Mirror.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| I'm surprised /r/UnexpectedBlackMirror doesn't exist yet.
| amelius wrote:
| The episode focused only on the downsides of this idea,
| not the upsides. And of course they chose the worst
| possible implementation to make the plot more juicy. With
| this attitude you can make any technology look bad.
|
| If 20% of people cause 80% of the trouble and this idea
| fixes that, then perhaps there is some merit in the idea
| even if you consider the downsides.
| jl6 wrote:
| 20% of people are not decent human beings? Harsh.
| bogwog wrote:
| Have you met people?
| omginternets wrote:
| Is one person out of five that you meet causing trouble?
| SuoDuanDao wrote:
| Keep in mind, out of 25 people, one is causing 64% of the
| problems while the worst four besides that one are
| responsible for just an additional 16%.
| a1369209993 wrote:
| > out of 25 people, one is causing 64% of the problems
| while the worst four besides that one are responsible for
| just an additional 16%
|
| Also, if you have any influence over which 20 people you
| spend time with, they're probably the 20 out of 25 who
| are _not_ those five.
| seattle_spring wrote:
| If driving on a highway is any indication, then yes
| isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote:
| People who are shit are probably excluded from many
| social circles, so I don't think that's a great
| indicator.
| [deleted]
| SMAAART wrote:
| Price's law: the square root of the population produces 50%
| of the trouble.
|
| Apply that to the US (328.2 million people) and we have that
| 18,116 individuals are responsible for 50% of problems.
|
| Mic drop
| ermir wrote:
| And the square root of that is 135, which causes 25% of the
| total trouble. If we could only find these people and get
| rid of them, we'd have paradise on Earth!
|
| And that's how genocides start.
| chx wrote:
| Wait, what? Price's Law. The square root of the number of
| people in a domain do 50% of the work.
|
| Nothing about trouble.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Causing trouble is work, of sorts.
|
| But perhaps it would be clearer if restated as, "50% of
| impact in a domain can be attributed to square root the
| number of people in that domain".
| anonporridge wrote:
| Could also be applied to community discussion, both
| online and in meatspace.
|
| There is an extreme minority of people who comment and
| up/down vote who drive the discussion of the whole. The
| 99% rarely participate and just go along for the ride.
| hkt wrote:
| ..are there 18,116 billionaires and near-billionaires?
| nathanvanfleet wrote:
| Uhhhhhhhh... the golden ratio.
| snek_case wrote:
| Totally and like... problems are fractal in nature, you
| have problems within problems within problems!
| Torwald wrote:
| This was also the success secret of the early church. The
| apostles and shepherds who visited believers in other cities
| brought with them such social proof in the form of a written
| letter.
| wins32767 wrote:
| That was very standard in the Roman empire at the time.
| Formalized patronage relationships were one of the core
| social organizing principles and given the distances, a
| letter from your patron to one of their contacts was _the_
| mechanism for social proof.
| chagaif wrote:
| I am very much still living this, Couchsurfing got more
| difficult to use and a lot of people don't use it because of
| the so called "pay wall" but luckily alternatives are there and
| will hopefully with more posts like this get more traction... I
| like Trustroots most
| zwayhowder wrote:
| It was well thought out too, hard to spam with fake comments
| etc.
|
| My family hosted people for a year or two and we were never
| empty. The appeal of a family home with a private room that had
| dozens of reviews from well travelled guests was so
| overwhelming people would take an air mattress in my study if
| the private room was taken by others. We regularly had multiple
| groups of people staying. Our record was 11 which included 6
| German 19yr olds who had a campervan but wanted access to a
| shower after a week in the Australian summer together.
|
| We also were contacted by one person who was trapped in one of
| those "We paid for your travel here so we've confiscated your
| passport and you work in our shop until we decide you've paid
| your debt" situations. We gave her the comfort to know she had
| a place to stay and then a friend and I went round to collect
| her, he was accidently still wearing his police uniform from
| work, so unsurprisingly we recovered her passport quite
| quickly.
|
| It was a truly great site at that time, I stayed in a few
| places using it, but switched to AirBnB when I could no longer
| find places to stay in the cities I needed to visit.
| amelius wrote:
| > It was well thought out too, hard to spam with fake
| comments etc.
|
| Curious, what techniques did they use for that?
| Beldin wrote:
| > _he was accidently still wearing his police uniform_
|
| Hear, hear, fine sirs!
| Razengan wrote:
| Couchsurfing is my go-to case to present in favor of making all
| in-app purchases via Apple instead of third-party payment
| processors.
|
| So they had a one-time "verification fee" of around $60-$100 (I
| think it varied by region or something) and a promise that we
| would never have to pay anything again.
|
| Some time later they started charging a monthly "COVID fee" or
| something (not much but also varying by region) but unless you
| paid that, you were suddenly _unable to access anything on your
| account AT ALL._
|
| I hadn't used Couchsurfing in a while so when I logged in after
| that update, it was as if my account had been hijacked and
| ransomed; people couldn't even delete their profiles (along with
| the info visible to the public) until they paid (again.)
|
| You might say that a few bucks isn't a big deal, but if these
| fees were paid via Apple's IAP system, Apple would have given me
| a refund without question like they do with all other crap
| services, whereas Couchsurfing has yet to even respond to my
| requests for a refund.
| peterburkimsher wrote:
| Previous discussion:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23211495
|
| The CouchSurfing community was wonderful, as I discovered from my
| first experience surfing in Irkutsk in 2009, to hosting in Japan
| in 2012, and co-hosting a meetup in Kaohsiung from 2016-2018.
| Some of the most dynamic and fascinating people had profiles, and
| the level of trust in strangers was immense. In my case it
| started largely because I had no other option, but it became a
| joy to pay it forward, and see how people worked together for the
| greater good.
|
| Where is the community now? Many people, myself included, are
| still affected by lockdowns and border closures. Despite that, in
| the past year, BeWelcome has grown from 135,571 members to
| 167,073 members. We know we need a mobile app and an API, but
| it's been difficult for committed developers to get involved.
|
| https://bewelcome.org/about/stats
|
| These days I host a weekly online meetup at 23:00 New Zealand
| time every Thursday night. Welcome to come and hang out if you'd
| like!
|
| https://meet.jit.si/BeWelcome-Chat_4MembersVolunteers
|
| https://www.worldtimebuddy.com/?qm=1&lid=2193733,1673820,266...
| blunte wrote:
| I used CS in 2008 in Switzerland, and it was a great experience.
| The people I met and stayed with were all nice and friendly (even
| if sometimes a bit quirky).
|
| What shocked me was that even in the town of Bern, which is not a
| huge city, there were over a hundred people on CS who were
| advertising their couches or spare rooms for guests.
|
| I loved the two week experience. It made me feel good about
| people. It also made the world seem smaller and more accessible.
|
| A couple of years later I hosted a couple of teen brothers who
| were long boarding across the US. They were kind, goofy, and
| super appreciative. Again, a great experience.
|
| I did read of some bad experiences, but the review system did
| seem to work pretty well for building reputation.
|
| If CS had started charging $10/year, I think a lot of users would
| have paid it. That's not much, and maybe not enough to fund it,
| but perhaps it would have postponed the bad changes.
| cdrini wrote:
| Very well written and researched article. What an interesting
| deep dive into a fascinating corner of internet culture!
| plantain wrote:
| Couchsurfing.com used to be a gem, I hosted a number of people so
| far removed from my bubble and had a great time with them. I hope
| a viable successor appears.
| rapnie wrote:
| Open Hospitality Network just started.
|
| https://openhospitality.network
| rapnie wrote:
| FYI they created their own submission here:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28587228
| atatatat wrote:
| Their "Whose involved?" is a who's who of projects in the
| space.
| thomasahle wrote:
| Right now a lot of alternatives: Couchers.org, BeWelcome.org,
| Trustroots.org
| k__ wrote:
| I knew a guy who said he used CS mainly for hookups.
|
| Is this really a thing?
| fxtentacle wrote:
| 10 years ago, there was a lot of traveling hippies on CS. We (4
| guys) had an appartement in the city center of a touristic town
| and we did have some female visitors that quite openly talked
| about how they like the concept of free love and sampling for
| biological compatibility before committing to a relationship.
| That said, I don't think any of us ever took any of them up on
| the offer. That openness tends to come with certain hygiene and
| style choices.
| phreeza wrote:
| WarmShowers still seems to work very well, with a spirit similar
| to the original CouchSurfing, though it is restricted to
| cyclists.
| chagaif wrote:
| Warmshowers Uncensored is Tracking censorious actions taken by
| Warmshowers. https://gitlab.com/-/snippets/2111860#
| Raed667 wrote:
| I remember trying to see what it was like but then you have to
| pay in order just to see how the platform works. It seemed very
| hostile to new users and people tempted by the idea.
| phreeza wrote:
| Probably at least partly a feature, to ensure a minimum level
| of commitment from members? My word of mouth knowledge of how
| well it works is good enough that I would pay without
| hesitation if I needed it.
| Raed667 wrote:
| If I'm trying this idea for the first time. I'd like to
| know if my planned routes have potential places on WS or am
| I just paying for a "your search has 0 results" page.
| phreeza wrote:
| I just checked with the guy who recommended it to me and
| he said when he used it, it was free. Website also seems
| to confirm that. Not sure what changed when?
| rootsudo wrote:
| I paid for it earlier this year and haven't yet used it
| but it seems to be really popular in PNW (where I go
| biking.)
| phreeza wrote:
| It seems the thing you need to pay for is the app, it's
| free to use on the web?
| rootsudo wrote:
| Nope, signed up on the web - wouldn't let me see hosts
| info otherwise.
| xoa wrote:
| A note for those talking about it going non-free downthread,
| that's apparently fairly recent and a sad example of central
| board control going closed behavior. From
| https://openhospitality.network:
|
| > _Open Alternative to WarmShowers.org - contributors to the
| community-built WarmShowers Android app, first released in
| 2012, before any WS board existed (2015), with which the
| community has grown, and whose access was cut off after WS
| board closed backend code (ca. 2017) and released a new paid
| app (2020), effectively excluding from the community members
| who access the platform from mobile devices only and for whom
| the fee for the new app is unaffordable (i.a. long-distance
| bike tourers and hosts from countries with less developed
| infrastructure). The devs and other community members made
| previously many attempts to inform the board about the
| situation._
|
| I haven't dug into the links and it doesn't seem to have been
| discussed on HN before, but it sounds like an unfortunately
| typical story. Of course, with each time that happens
| communities learn a bit about how to react differently going
| forward which I hope will bear fruit.
| breton wrote:
| The only time I touched cs was in 2014, when my wife suggested to
| find a place via it and registered a female profile. 100% of the
| profiles looking at her were male and like from a dating site ad.
| There also was an unwanted email spam about who she could stay
| with - also very dating-site-like. Airbnb felt way more
| friendlier and safer.
| dkersten wrote:
| Oof, that's rather sad. My experience with it was 2008 and 2009
| and it was very different: very casual, interesting people from
| around the world staying with and hanging out with each other.
| It was very pleasant and was the focal point of my social life
| during that time, until I moved to a town without a presence
| that was too far away from any hub area. And then I heard it
| declined... which is I guess where your experience comes in.
| That's very sad.
| rootsudo wrote:
| I fear I'm probably part of the problem, or I was too "late."
|
| I'm on the younger end, and around 2014 is when I was in my early
| 20's and rather much do airbnb vs couchsurfing because the
| reviews and the paywall was a compliment to allowing strangers
| stay in my place (alongside a fake/marketing fluff guarantee
| piece.) So I joined airbnb and used that, because couchsurfing
| was on the way out.
|
| Early 00's Couchsurfing was a bit unregulated, and many people
| here forgot to mention the downsides - sexual assaults, thefts
| and such, which is not to say they didn't happen on airbnb or
| hotels, but the optics were never handled properly because
| "stranger, staying on couch, assaulted host" always catches
| headlines.
|
| Plus comparing an airbnb to an couch vs a hotel, airbnbs won ,
| you had a room for $20-40 a night, no fees - sometimes even less.
|
| Now, there's room for another disruption, airbnb is highly not as
| efficient anymore for customer experience on the low end as
| they're moving to high end experiences, vrbo is kinda doing it's
| own thing and hotels are hotels.
|
| Or maybe the high price of airbnbs are a reflection of how in
| demand and efficient all this actually is.
| enriquto wrote:
| There's Pasporta Servo, still going strong since way before
| couchsurfing was a thing. You need a moderate amount of
| implication, which acts as a sort of filter for people who only
| want to goof around. This can be either a good or a bad thing.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| "implication"?
| kingofpandora wrote:
| Autocorrect for Esperanto I guess.
| j1elo wrote:
| Most likely it's a false friend, from a very similar Spanish
| word that means "commitment"
| enriquto wrote:
| My mistake exactly.
|
| Now I realize with horror that I've been misusing this word
| all my life.
| syntaxfree wrote:
| ?Cual?
| artur_makly wrote:
| i met my Argentine wife on CH. i hope it has a second life one
| day again, as it was one of the most beautiful social experiments
| to-date.
| slim wrote:
| "There really is no similarity between Palantir's business model
| and Couchsurfing's business model,"
|
| Ok, but I still can imagine a few ways it could be useful to
| intelligence agencies : It's a network of places to stay around
| the globe without the need to show your passport or give your
| credit card.
| xtracto wrote:
| I tried to use it once around 2005 while studying my PhD in the
| UK. I needed to stay in London for a couple of days but was
| rejected and couldn't find a bed. I ended up going into a Hostel
| (hostelworld) at that time. It didn't work for me (maybe because
| of my nationality?).
| kragen wrote:
| I guess you're Mexican? From growing up there, I know the US
| has pervasive racism against Mexicans; what's the UK attitude
| like?
| poetaster wrote:
| I learned to couch surf in the 1980s, west coast Canada, US and
| Europe. Convivial people in the arts, music and so. Even surfed a
| barn couch in southern france. Biking and hiking was sometimes a
| common denominator. Internet optional.
| ithinkso wrote:
| Ah, couchsurfing. It truly was a paradise and a fantastic
| community. I have a lot of fond memories when I would just
| hitchhike whole summer throughout europe and beyond. Meeting all
| sort of people with every background imaginable. I don't think
| there is a way for me to recreate that kind of freedom anymore.
| And the community was really trusting to the point of
| ridiculousness - I remember one host in Italy had some emergency
| and had to go out of town for a day while I was about to appear
| and he just texted me where he left the keys lol
| dgan wrote:
| Couchsurfing was too intrusive for me when i tried. It required
| somewhat nice and approchable picture of myself, with some
| interesting story to put on my profile This was just too much
| asked. Compare that to "pay NEUR, you can stay M nights" I picked
| second every time.
| vvpan wrote:
| Well, couchsurfing is a community meets social network, it's
| hard not to be "intrusive".
| theairscout wrote:
| To be fair, that is, an small interesting story, IMHO, not much
| to ask for a stranger to open their place to another stranger.
| In the good old times, an story was not enough, you had to
| describe much more of yourself to help people trust you. That
| what CS did, created a global trusting metric. The free nights
| (that is exactly the symptom of not understanding the CS
| concept) on someone place was just part of the whole thing. The
| connections were some of the main benefits and those were
| incomparable. Or course, CS was not for everybody, you needed
| to be wired in certain way to use and to enjoy it, but f you
| did, there was nothing like it and it was as good as travelling
| gets.
| dgan wrote:
| Everything is correct what you said. I am not cricizing CS,
| despite how my parent comment looks, I am just saying I
| clearly wasn't the target audience
| barcoder wrote:
| The first app I'd fire up when arriving in a new city was the CS
| app.
|
| I'd announce myself in the activities section - ie. I want walk
| around the city. A few mins later I'd have a group of people
| wanting to meet up and explore.
|
| Instant friends. It was wonderful!
| CGamesPlay wrote:
| Couchsurfing Hangouts was also a great way for me to meet
| people in new cities. Is there anything aiming to replace that
| aspect of the site now?
| nicbou wrote:
| It's a lot less active, but it still works. I have never
| found a replacement for it.
| xapata wrote:
| Same. I traveled for work, so I didn't need lodging. I needed
| instant friends, and CS provided.
| xapata wrote:
| In hindsight, I had no idea how _new_ the website was when I
| joined Couchsurfing in 2005. Now I understand why the people I
| met were all so enthusiastic about the grand hospitality
| experiment -- we were the early adopters.
| EGreg wrote:
| Is there a good alternative?
|
| Does couchsurfing still work WELL if you're willing to pay
| membership fees?
| dopidopHN wrote:
| I think the community is kinda broken.
| EGreg wrote:
| Can I reliably get a couch in most countries where the owner
| won't try to rape, kidnap or rob me?
|
| Then it's good enough for me
| [deleted]
| carlsborg wrote:
| Membership fees was a horrible idea. They should have done a
| Wikipedia style "We need to pay to keep the lights on.. make a
| donation" and maybe offered a badge in return.
| thomasahle wrote:
| It's also strange they made the paywall for hosts and
| travelers the same. Who wants to pay to host other people?
| xapata wrote:
| The same people that wanted to host in the first place.
| When I was really into Couchsurfing, my girlfriend and I
| searched for apartments that made it easy to host, the same
| way that people seek ways to host via AirBnB.
|
| I enjoyed hearing stories from travelers, and showing them
| around town.
| bakuninsbart wrote:
| I didn't know about the changes but actually wanted to
| reactivate my CS account after a couple years of absence.
| Now that the travel restrictions are mostly gone and me
| and my girlfriend finally have a flat with a nice living
| room I wanted to give something forward.
|
| But I'm not gonna pay for it to an at this point frankly
| dubious middleman.
| thomasahle wrote:
| I guess some people may still want to host. At least if
| the community is still as good as when I used to host.
| Personally I'm sceptical that it is, and not going to pay
| to find out. I'd rather support the newcomers on
| Couchers.org and the like.
| Arubis wrote:
| Probably? There may be a smaller one available for you.
|
| Couchsurfing basically needs three things: a way to establish
| trust (Airbnb accomplishes this by appealing to a central
| authority), a demographic that's able and interested in
| participating, and a way for folks to connect. Of these, trust
| is probably the hardest. What, in your own life, might enable
| this?
|
| In my own experience, the inbuilt trust between returned Peace
| Corps volunteers (from an American long-term international
| service organization) stemming from shared experience led to
| its own internal couchsurfing culture that was alive and well
| when I last checked (pre-pandemic). What other affinity groups
| might work? Work, school, religious groups, hobbies, music? Are
| you a part of one, or could you be?
| Nimitz14 wrote:
| I honestly don't think the paywall was such a bad idea. The
| barrier to entry was too easy, there were too many people on the
| platform who had no intention of hosting and were just looking
| for a free place to stay. The very small contribution at least
| ensures some level of commitment.
| thomasahle wrote:
| I don't think you're getting more hosts this way though.
|
| I was trying to set up my new place for hosting when I ran into
| the paywall. Didn't want that. Now I'm hosting on Couchers.org
| instead.
| dkersten wrote:
| When I hosted (2008), we were very active hosts that summer and
| we basically required people to write personalised messages
| telling us who they are and why they like the sound of staying
| with us specifically. We got a lot of generic copy and paste
| messages and we ignored them, since we got so many messages.
| For about 3 months, we were hosting people almost every single
| day, often multiple people (and the most at once was 12, for a
| weekend while there was an event on).
|
| This worked very well and the only "bad" experience we ever had
| was one of those 12 people that stayed the weekend of that
| event was.. harmless, but a bit unpleasant and odd, and that
| was because we relaxed our vetting a small bit for that event.
|
| And honestly, I don't know if I would have paid for an account
| at that time, as an active host. I got into it because my
| housemates were into it and when we were planning on moving in
| together, we discussed it. If it had cost money to join, I
| can't imagine we would have bothered, certainly not all of 5 of
| us.
|
| With that said, nowadays, I think some barrier to entry would
| make me feel more comfortable with it. Back then, in my early
| twenties, I was a bit more relaxed about sharing my personal
| space, I guess.
| avereveard wrote:
| It isn't a bad idea per se, but it was contrary to everything
| many vocal coachsurfers stood for. It was a movement as much as
| a community, I knew lot of hosts that were mad about it because
| they felt they were monetizing not the service, but the trust
| network people built therein.
| kragen wrote:
| The people who put up the paywall also had no intention of
| hosting; they were just looking for free money. They're the
| same kind of people you're complaining about, just orders of
| magnitude worse.
| em-bee wrote:
| does it really? wouldn't paying lead to more entitlement from
| surfers?
| goatsecxkirk wrote:
| I couchsurfed in the US and Australia 2011 to 2013 and had a lot
| of amazing experiences. It had a profound impact on how I view
| the world and people. Here's a blog from the time of the buyout
| that I think some people might find interesting
|
| https://blog.rplasil.name/2016/02/the-fall-of-couchsurfing-a...
| vvpan wrote:
| I have been pretty heavily involved with couchsurfing for years
| to the extent that I barely spend time with anybody who I did not
| directly or indirectly meet through couchsurfing. The well-
| traveled curious misfit persona I associate with the network
| works great for me. I have met the most curious personalities,
| forged strong relationships with people in other parts of the
| world, and I think I have experienced more good-will and
| generosity than most people ever will.
|
| It really seemed couchsurfing.com became a victim of it's on
| success beyond whatever happened behind the stage. Over the years
| the number of popular articles that "advertised" it as a way to
| either have sex or just a free place to crash has brought
| attention that was detrimental to the experience. The number of
| stupid "hey bro, me and my buddy need a place to crash" requests
| went up significantly. This is what happens with any community.
|
| But the important thing is that couchsurfing.com is just a
| website, it does not even matter so much. There are millions of
| people out there who are adventurous and out to meet people and
| those have not gone away. Couchsurfing meetups still happen.
| Couchcrashes (big long get-togethers in random cities of the
| world explcitly affiliated with couchsurfing.com) still happen.
| Airbnb is easier, but couchsurfing to a large extent was not
| about a place to stay - it is about connecting with the place you
| went to and people who lived there. (A good example of what doors
| couchsurfing might open seems to be "Couchsurfing in Iran:
| Revealing a Hidden World", but it's still on my to-read list)
| Back in the day you could always break that connect-with-people
| contract to a certain extent and it was not unwelcome, but as
| more people flooded the platform it became a much rarer paradigm.
|
| Whatever happens I hope the word couchsurfing gets decoupled from
| the the website. I still travel and hop hostels and the target
| audience of couchsurfing has never ceased to exist. With more
| remote work it has perhaps grown? What has happened to
| couchsurfing.com happens to any online community. Growth entails
| erosion of value. Partly, why I am actually not apposed to light
| gate-keeping of a paywall. In any case, I welcome the next stage.
| And I am glad the article ends on a list of lesser-known
| alternatives (contributors to some of which commented in this
| thread!). Couchsurfing is not couchsurfing.com and it is not dead
| it is just looking for new forms.
| lucas_codes wrote:
| I'm a volunteer dev for https://couchers.org which was started in
| response to the Couchsurfing paywall and mentioned in this
| article. It's steadily growing in both users and features, and is
| open source and non-profit.
|
| BeWelcome is similarly open-source and non profit, which I'd also
| recommend as a CS alternative (although they have a somewhat
| different vision to Couchers and CS).
| abyssin wrote:
| Trustroots has to be mentioned too. It appeared as a reaction
| to the rigidity of how things were managed at BeWelcome.
| chagaif wrote:
| A few developers from different HospEx (hospitality exchange)
| platforms (Trustroots, WarmShowers Android app devs, BeWelcome)
| started an attempt to federate the HospEx world.
|
| Mariha (@mariha:matrix.org) was contributing for Warm Showers
| Android App and with https://warmshowers.bike/ happening she kind
| of kick-started the whole project.
|
| We got funding recently from https://ngi.eu and with that we
| start to work for the next generation internet.
|
| We would love to revive the spirit of early Couchsurfing and Warm
| Showers
|
| https://openhospitality.network
| fabianhjr wrote:
| Besides federation, are you setting up as platform
| cooperatives? (Info: https://platform.coop/, Example:
| https://fairbnb.coop/ )
| chagaif wrote:
| I submitted this to HN so if anyone prefers a discussion here
| rather than on Matrix/Telegram feel free to comment there
| Here's the link to the submission:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28587228
| kragen wrote:
| What's the current spirit like? I've been not participating in
| CS2 for the last decade or so.
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