[HN Gopher] Waydroid - Run Android containers on Ubuntu ___________________________________________________________________ Waydroid - Run Android containers on Ubuntu Author : pabs3 Score : 472 points Date : 2021-09-22 14:52 UTC (8 hours ago) (HTM) web link (waydro.id) (TXT) w3m dump (waydro.id) | rd07 wrote: | I have tried Waydroid in Manjaro Linux, and to my surprise, it | runs smoothly. I even able to install Aurora Store and install | Telegram from there, which also run perfectly. RAM usage was | minimal, maybe because of it is running on a container. The only | thing I haven't figured out is keyboard input from my physical | keyboard directly to the android. | piaste wrote: | > I even able to install Aurora Store and install Telegram from | there, which also run perfectly | | Why Telegram specifically, when it already offers both a web | client and a FOSS Linux client? | tgtweak wrote: | Isolation probably. | | edit: or if it's anything like signal, the mobile app has | some extra functionality that is omitted from the desktop/web | client... | slim wrote: | Yes namely e2e encryption does not work on linux client | rd07 wrote: | Mainly because I want to see if : - I can install something | from Aurora Store - The app can run - The app can connect to | the internet without changing any config - The app can | operate normally It is just a coincidence that the first apps | I installed was Telegram. AFAIK, Waydroid doesn't add ARM | virtualization, and because I installed it on a X86_64 | computer, I doubt something installed from a store (which | mainly aimed for ARM device) can even run properly. | andrewshadura wrote: | In fact, if you have qemu-user-static installed and binfmt | configured properly, it will likely just work. | usr1106 wrote: | I intended to write the same in reponse to some other | comment. But then I got unsure. It would only work if | Android has no native ABIs to the system at all. On a | Gnu/Linux system you would need a libc in the emulated | architecture at least. Applications won't typically bring | their own. I have never not looked at Android | development, so no idea whether such ABI exist or whether | all APIs are Java. | davidgerard wrote: | Quite a lot of stuff from the Play Store has an x86 | version, because then they get users on Chromebooks. | piaste wrote: | Makes sense, thanks. | Dhrhdhxbxbx wrote: | If it's simple to set up, I'd like to use this for verifying and | accessing private app data from Android backups without having to | use a 2nd phone. | | Does it support arm64 emulation on an x86_64 host? That way I | could just run the backed up apks directly. | genewitch wrote: | Other comments specify this is not a virtual machine, it's a | container, so there's no emulation. | | You may need qemu. | coolspot wrote: | Waydroid is a containerized Android, not emulated, so it would | run same arch as the host. | deknos wrote: | without snap and other propretiary stuff? then i would take it. | coolspot wrote: | Snapd is opensource | blendergeek wrote: | While snapd is open source, it's main (sole) purpose is to | run (proprietary) software sourced from a propietary store. | lanyusea wrote: | looks amazing, wondering if it is possible to run NDK programs? | didn't find any related info in docs | tgtweak wrote: | What's different between this and anbox (other than support, | focus, etc)? | | How good is the 3d support, ie: Does it support a modern version | of OpenGL ES? Can it process that via host hardware support (a la | angle or similar)? Can it do that headlessly without an window | server running on the host? Can the video output of the app be | easily captured by nvenc or intel/amd equivalent? | | Is arm translation supported natively or does it require plugins | for the abi translation? | | Are google's libraries (play services, play store, webview) or | alternatives easy to install/supported? | | Can the app data and system volume be mounted externally? | | Can the system details (cpuid/flags, device name/mfg/model, | android OS specifics) be provided/spoofed? | | Can sensor inputs (gps location, tilt, multi-touch gestures, | battery level, network status, camera/s) be easily simulated or | passed from host sensor to the guest app? Can bluetooth be passed | through from the host? | | Would love for somebody to crush this space and not pivot | immediately into commercial offering. | seba_dos1 wrote: | > Can it process that via host hardware support (a la angle or | similar)? | | You don't need ANGLE for that, Mesa supports OpenGL ES | natively. | moritonal wrote: | I'm sorry if this is rude, but this comment reads really | strangely. You seem to acknowledge that you really want | something, whilst also accept you cannot do it for a lack of | time|skill and then seem annoyed that the people who do ask for | some kind of payment for their work? | nalanda wrote: | agreed | numpad0 wrote: | I can understand how he ended up with that kind of accusatory | tone. Existing solutions either come with severe | compatibility issues(official Emulator, QEMU, etc.), or | vaporwares with great demos(Project Astoria) or are really | sketchy borderline malwares(rest of it - my presumptions) | that does wonders. | ev1 wrote: | Not just borderline. Most of the ones that can feasibly run | a game for example are basically real malware. | htrp wrote: | Do you mind elaborating on this? Is it just because the | use case turns into something like app install fraud? | ev1 wrote: | It's everything from a mix of cryptominers being deployed | quietly (since of course anyone installing these will | have a low end or better GPU), app install fraud, review | fraud, Play token theft, spyware-tier telemetry. Even on | the ones that don't install anything bad at all, they | tend to auto-install the lowest common denominator apps | via advertisements or paid placement that then have their | own absurdist SDKs or whatever for data collection and | mining. | | Pretty much any of the closed source emulators that can | feasibly run games (i.e., be horribly abused en masse for | botting games) are festering piles of crap. | | Another super common thing in those low tier trash apps | is using your computer as a proxy ala Hola. Pay-per- | install for using you to run stolen card traffic. | tgtweak wrote: | Just looking for the delta between this and anbox free/anbox | cloud/genynotion cloud. No quams about paying for it | honestly, just inquiring if any of these formerly paid-only | (or build it yourself) features are being offered in the open | here. | ajvs wrote: | From what I understand this is aimed only at ARM, so | there's no emulation. This is therefore targeting Linux | phones, but not Linux on desktop (which is usually run on | x86). | tgtweak wrote: | From what I saw on docs, it seemed to be agnostic to host | linux architecture (x86 or arm host), but it did say (on | the desktop guide): | | > The apk files you will sometimes find on the internet | tend to only have arm support, and will therefore not | work on x86_64. | | Suggesting that they don't provide cross-abi | compatability. If/when they move to Android 11 as the | underlying image - it has both x86 and arm translations | built into the packaged abi. I suspect that it will be on | the user to install any abi translation packages | (libhoudini for example) in order to get arm apk's to run | on x86 host without qemu. | blfr wrote: | That's one way to look at it. Another is that we have this | beautiful open source commons that most devs make use of and | we would like it to be richer. | AtlasBarfed wrote: | THis guy wants to run containers of Android games, such as | the various Pay to Win Machine Zone games (they are just one | example). | | I played one of these once (some Final Fantasy thing) and the | amount of manipulative social engineering, dopamine | triggering sidegames, and manipulation by devs or employed | super-players to "mix things up" to try to provoke people to | fork over money was appalling. | | Thankfully I used almost no money, I paid up for one or two | things to see if they would be worth it (they weren't) before | I could fully recognize the money extraction treadmill they | were trying to get you one. | | The games are a fascinating example of hyperinflation too. | antiframe wrote: | > The games are a fascinating example of hyperinflation | too. | | Can you elaborate on what's fascinating? | AtlasBarfed wrote: | Aside from the social engineering aspect of constantly | undermining the value of "currency" such as "gold" or | resources like "food", etc. | | The game devs have complete control over the value of | things be it buildings, soldiers, items, etc. The ability | to constantly release new tiers/soldiers/etc that | instantly devalue previous invested time and work all in | service to wring more real-world money from addicts... | | Of course once too many new shiny things are released, | suddenly the climb/intro for new players is too high. | | So suddenly, new players are given far more of the | original "currency" of gold and resource to skip past the | beginning steps so they can come within shouting distance | to where investing money would keep them alive. | | Well, it's kind of like a perverse fiat currency and a | central government with the power to impose regulations | and print currency at will. | | The fact that the "central government" started printing | money / resources once several more tiers of | buildings/soldiers/defenses were introduced devalued all | that previous investment and work to startling degrees. | | To me it was reminiscent of fiat currency and | hyperinflation due to printing money. | nmstoker wrote: | Did they edit their comment after your reply? I'm not seeing | aspects you refer to (esp the time/skill point) | cto_of_antifa wrote: | This is just my personal conspiracy theory, but I feel as | though a really good android desktop container system hasn't | been made available to Developers because it would make it a | lot easier to pull back the curtain on all the shady native | advertising and tracking shit everybody is getting up to. | Even with a rooted device there's still a lot of open | questions for me. | | Anyway, this is to say that I'm also a little bit angry about | wanting such a product without the primary purpose of | catering to corporate whims instead of developer tinkering | kowlo wrote: | That's quite the shopping list | tgtweak wrote: | Real use cases/requirements. | kowlo wrote: | Perhaps! My point was that it's quite a large order for the | desired price of 0. | fsflover wrote: | Those are just questions. I think the OP would accept the | answers "no". | alex_smart wrote: | I mean sure he would accept the answer "no", but why even | ask the questions in the first place? | | That is like going to a used car lot, looking at a car | with a tag price of 1000 dollars and asking is it | electric, does it have doors that open like wings, does | it have level 2 autonomous etc. Sure, you will take no | for an answer, but why you be even asking that? | Lerc wrote: | To me those questions are more like; Does it have wheels, | do the wheels have tyres, does it have brakes, is it road | legal? | | Asking about the existence of such things is not a | suggestion that they must be provided at that price. It's | simply the baseline criteria for some people to want to | use it. | alex_smart wrote: | >To me those questions are more like; Does it have | wheels, do the wheels have tyres, does it have brakes, is | it road legal? | | Considering the availability of the demanded product at | the respective price points, I think that my analogy is | much more accurate than yours. | | >Asking about the existence of such things is not a | suggestion that they must be provided at that price. | | Sure, it is up to you to choose what product you want. | But you should still have some awareness about the price | of that product in the market. If someone offers a car | for 5$ on ebay, I am going to assume it is a toy, not the | real thing. | RussianCow wrote: | > If someone offers a car for 5$ on ebay, I am going to | assume it is a toy, not the real thing. | | The whole point of the OP's questions is that they didn't | want to assume anything! I don't see the harm in asking | these types of questions, even if the most likely answer | to each of them is "no". | alex_smart wrote: | I am not saying that the questions are outright harmful, | just supporting another person's remark that "this | comment reads really strangely". | | There is no harm in asking whether the 1000$ car at the | used car dealership comes with cars that open like wings | either, but it would sound strange. | jcuenod wrote: | > What's different between this and anbox | | I believe Waydroid was originally "anbox-halium"--a rewrite | with LXC to get closer to the metal. | tathisit wrote: | Why would anbox need lxc? For Ndk support? How good is it on | waydroid? | jcuenod wrote: | Ahh, I think I was mistaken. I think Anbox already used LXC | (which was good because it wasn't emulating the whole OS). | The key difference that Waydroid brings is that it is | written for Wayland. I guess this is an advantage over X | because of how Wayland exposes device hardware. | amir-h wrote: | It will be interesting to see how these kind of solutions compare | with emulators for e2e testing of Android apps locally and on CI. | zekrioca wrote: | I do not know why they do not give credits, nor mention that they | use LXC behind the scenes [1]. | | [1] | https://github.com/waydroid/waydroid/blob/bullseye/tools/hel... | gizdan wrote: | Why do they need to? Sure it'll be nice, but depending on your | market, maybe that's an unnecessary implementation detail. | zekrioca wrote: | They do mention | | "Waydroid uses Linux namespaces (user, pid, uts, net, mount, | ipc) to run a full..." [see main page] | | when in fact they simply use LXD, which uses all these | features. Besides, it is a project dependency, which is not | mentioned anywhere. | | Edit: clarity. | aritmo wrote: | LXC, not LXD. | zekrioca wrote: | Oops, yes, LXC. | [deleted] | jrm4 wrote: | I am, of course, not naive enough to think that there's a good | chance of it happening -- but I nevertheless strongly feel this | way about _every_ large tech company that isn 't Microsoft not | mentioning that they use Linux. | sodality2 wrote: | Title should be changed to Linux - thought this was Ubuntu-only | at first (like if it were only in Ubuntu repos) | blendergeek wrote: | Yeah. This title should be reverted to the title on the page. | | A container-based approach to boot a full Android system on a | regular GNU/Linux system like Ubuntu. | | This could be simplified to: | | WayDroid: Containerized Android for GNU/Linux | | But as it is now, the title has been changed to be confusing. | jrm4 wrote: | Name strongly implies it requires Wayland? (which, eww) | | But the front page doesn't make this too clear, can anyone | confirm? | yjftsjthsd-h wrote: | FWIW you can just run a Wayland compositor in a window on X. | Not sure if there's a way to get it working without the root | window to make it seamless, but it's still an option. | | EDIT: Actually I tried it and this doesn't want to work in an | instance of weston running on top of X; not sure where the | failure is. | ZiiS wrote: | Yes it requires Wayland. | [deleted] | xt00 wrote: | One of the biggest problems with anbox and ARC was that they | would need to do tons of work on each new android version. If | somebody is willing to keep updating this for new versions of | android at least every other android release then it's reasonable | to say this will work long term, otherwise people will use of a | year then abandon it.. so Google is now switching to using arcvm | where they use a VM instead of trying to do a bunch of work to | make android apps run in chromeOS running in a container that | requires the right kernel and special compatibility libs / | services running to pretend to be android. | hereme888 wrote: | I'm glad to recently switch to Linux as my primary OS with things | like these available. Windows 11's android app integration now | doesn't sound as appealing. | begueradj wrote: | Sounds better than -the dead- Anbox | evv555 wrote: | I hope they get this running through Termux now that it supports | containers on the latest Lineage OS builds. | arendtio wrote: | Does someone know why Arch Linux doesn't come with the binder and | ashmem modules enabled by default? | | Both are required to run Anbox and Waydroid so you have to switch | to another kernel or build one yourself. | kxyvr wrote: | Has anyone had success getting any of these containers to work | with a camera? | | Recently, my bank discontinued their website based deposit system | for checks in favor of their app. I'm reluctant to keep an app | with full access to my account on my phone, so a container system | like Waydroid or Anbox would be great if I could just emulate the | app when I need it. Has anyone else run into this issue and, if | so, how have you dealt with it? | npteljes wrote: | I got by in similar circumstances with Android x86. Which is | simply an android VM. The catch is that it's not ARM, which | some apps lamented - but the app I needed worked just fine. | exikyut wrote: | FWIW/out of curiosity, I just tried poking the emulator that | comes with Android Studio, and found an option (under "advanced | settings") to route the emulated front or back camera to | "Webcam0". This is out of the box on Debian. | | While definitely a heavyweight approach (yay, installing all of | Android Studio - but you also install an update tool), I can | confirm it works. (And you can fish out and save the qemu | invocation from `ps axfww`, then launch it directly without | needing to start anything else, although I think the idiomatic | approach is using the `emulator` command.) | zorr wrote: | The emulator is part of the android SDK so you don't need to | install the full IDE if all you need is the emulator. You can | just install the Android SDK standalone and use that to | install additional images and start/stop devices. | meltedcapacitor wrote: | What about using last year's phone for banking etc? | knakk wrote: | I have been trying to get my banking software to work with both | Anbox and Waydroid for the last couple of days. So far I've had | no success with either. I've gotten other apps to run just fine | but not any related to banking. These apps are extremely picky | about the environment you run them in. At least the ones I'm | working with require Google Play Services, which is proprietary | and have to be ripped from an Android image (if you don't want | to take a chance on some shady download). Even with Play | services, my app still will not start. I'm thinking it could be | related to how Anbox and Waydroid shares the kernel with the | host OS, and therefor it may not look like valid Android to the | apps. | gbrindisi wrote: | perhaps the containerized environment looks like a rooted | phone? | | Due to vague security requirements most banking apps refuse | to run if the phone has been routed. | tathisit wrote: | Android is actually pretty secure. If you trust Linux kernel | (which I think you do since you trust lxc), then you can trust | Android. | 1hrow_away1 wrote: | I wish I could setup waydroid on Raspberry Pi so that I can | finally use hotstar/primevideo and netflix on my dumb tv. | | I had bought firestick in past that is now stuck on boot loop for | over a year. I have decided not buy these sticks or smart TV | where I have little to no control over Software. | dannyw wrote: | There is always the Plex / seedbox / NAS route... | jcuenod wrote: | Why can't you? | [deleted] | logix wrote: | If on Raspberry Pi OS, install libwidevinecdm0 and those should | work. | sodimel wrote: | Very nice project... but why does the third paragraph has a | contenteditable tag set to true? | jcuenod wrote: | Lol! How did you notice this? | 29083011397778 wrote: | One of the major advantages of Waydroid that I've found is that | it's lighter than Anbox. I know some here have compute to spare, | but it makes a big difference on my Pinephone :) | | It's still early days for Waydroid, but it's also decidedly a | step forwards. | amenod wrote: | Wait - you can run waydroid, and thus presumably Android apps, | on Pinephone? This is huge! How well does it work? | josteink wrote: | The PinePhone runs mainline Linux on a regular Arm64 SOC. Why | shouldn't it work? ;) | edoceo wrote: | Because you're running an emulator on a damnd phone!! A | PHONE! Wild! | outworlder wrote: | Phones have more processing power than laptops from just | a few years ago. People aren't exaggerating when they | call them pocket supercomputers. | LeSaucy wrote: | The series 7 Apple Watch has a higher resolution display | than the original iPhone. | CameronNemo wrote: | Well it is a container rather than an emulator. Maybe | some parts are emulated, like opengl, but I believe | waydroid is a lot "closer to the metal" than anbox is. | dannyw wrote: | The SoC is pretty slow. speaking as a PinePhone owner. | josteink wrote: | Sure. I have one too. I know. | | But that's no reason for it _not to work_ , it will just | work more slowly ;) | fsflover wrote: | If you think that Pinephone is slow, try a less cluttered | OS (https://sxmo.org), or consider Librem 5 instead. | smallerfish wrote: | ...or wait for the fxtec to ship. If I'm going to have a | command line on my phone, I want a keyboard. | fsflover wrote: | > If I'm going to have a command line on my phone, I want | a keyboard. | | https://pineguild.com/pinephone-keyboard-first- | impression-is... | | Also, you can connect via ssh and use your computer's | keyboard to manage the phone. Or buy a Bluetooth | keyboard. | josteink wrote: | The fxtec looks neat in theory, but one thing I love on | my PinePhone is its ability to just boot any OS on any | SD-card you insert. | | Do you know if the fxtec will offer the same? For a | tinkerable Linux phone where you genuinely go distro- | hopping, that's truly a game-changer. | smallerfish wrote: | I don't - all I know is that the bootloader is unlocked | and it has a few recommended options. Agree with you that | it's neat in theory, but am waiting for the first reviews | before I plunk down cash. | OJFord wrote: | I've asked about anbox (not having heard of waydroid before | now) on Pinephone threads before, consensus seemed to be even | without bugs it's too slow on Pinephone hardware. (And indeed | I've found it too buggy to be useful on my desktop anyway.) | | So certainly lighter sounds good, and hopefully the future's | bright - could be very useful in bridging the gap driving | more Linux phone adoption. Some things just can't and won't | be available (without way more adoption), like bank apps say, | so being able to run the Android version smoothly would be a | huge win. | cunidev wrote: | Quite well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG0uAQqeqW4 | | Here is on a OnePlus 6T running postmarketOS, for comparison: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9qaD5YIPkc | option_greek wrote: | Can you add a bit more on what works and what doesn't work on | waydroid compared with regular android and regular lineageos on | pine phone. | shrubble wrote: | Idea: take the open source Beagle Bone Black, which has open | source schematics, put into (probably chunkier) phone form | factor, add 4g phone modem. | | Use containers to segregate any apps, e.g. web browser, maps, | Signal/Telegram all in a separate container from each other. | | Would this allow for less privacy-invasion from Google etc.? | pinusc wrote: | If Google privacy invasion is what you fear, then there are | simpler solutions. Simply installing lineageOS on a supported | android device yields a functioning, de-googlified phone. | Install only open source apps (from F-Droid, for example) and | you're all set. | | Android itself containerizes/isolates apps, with better & | better security features in modern versions. LineageOS also | adds their own layer of security (ex-PrivacyGuard) on top. | | Granted, not all phones are created equal, meaning some of them | will have restrictive bootloaders/need more proprietary | drivers. It's possible some of them have spyware built in their | bootloader/recovery/hardware, although I haven't heard of it. | And of course there's 0 fully open-source android hardware | phones. | | Which, speaking of... this would be excellent on pinephone, | which runs linux. Would allow running android apps on it, which | is very very useful of course. I might finally bite the bullet | and buy it... | dvdkon wrote: | You could just use a PinePhone, you'd probably get similar | performance in a much more convenient form factor. | marcodiego wrote: | See the video comparing a pinephone to a librem-5 running | supertuxkart: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community- | wiki/-/wikis/Benchm... | | They are not on par in terms of performance. | fsflover wrote: | Your idea has been (in principle) implemented here: | https://puri.sm/products/librem-5. | seba_dos1 wrote: | BBB requires non-free drivers for the GPU, which are a huge | PITA even if you don't mind them being non-free. You would end | up with more-or-less a Nokia N9 clone. | | It's better to use something like i.MX 8M Quad - you may want | to take a look at the Librem 5; or if you want something lower- | end than that then there's also the PinePhone which is based on | A64. | marcodiego wrote: | i.MX still needs binary blobs. I think the only ARM SBC today | that can run blob-free today is Radxa's Rock pi 4. | seba_dos1 wrote: | Every i.MX blob combined is an order of magnitude less | problematic in practice than PowerVR blob on OMAP. | CameronNemo wrote: | Why only that particular rk3399 board? My rock64 runs blob | free, as I would imagine most rk3328 boards do. The rk3399 | type c port does require a blob, but I guess that is | optional and boards without the USB3 type c port do not | need it. Other than that the only blob I need for my PBP is | for the broadcom WiFi modem. Are there any ac WiFi modems | that work without blobs? I have only seen the ath9k | chipsets which top out at 802.11n | | With that said, I worry an rk3399 would run hot in a phone. | Hopefully the thermals on the rk3588 are better. But | rockchip is dedicating die space to a poorly supported | "neural processing unit" now, so we will have to see. | marcodiego wrote: | The USB-c port on the rock pi 4 is for power only, no eDP | or any blob required for HDMI. The model A has no wifi, | so no blob required for that too. | fsflover wrote: | > i.MX still needs binary blobs | | Which ones? Librem 5 runs an FSF-endorsed OS and is | recommended by the FSF: | https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v11/. | marcodiego wrote: | AFAIK fsf recommending a distro doesn't says much about | the hardware it runs on. With regard to the blobs still | required, see | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28189184 | fsflover wrote: | FSF recommends hardware which runs purely blob-free OSes. | Such hardware can still have proprietary components, | which can be considered "hardware, not software", i.e., | have no access to RAM, CPU or network and do not require | updates. | | Purism solved the problem with the RAM here: | https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-solving-the-first-fsf-ryf- | hurd.... | marcodiego wrote: | This was posted a long time ago. The phone has been | available for a more than a year now and it still is not | ryf-certified. I don't think it will ever be. | fsflover wrote: | Have a look at my first link. FSF did not certify the | phone, because they did not receive the units yet. Purism | is struggling with delivery due to the supply chain | problem. Nevertheless, FSF recommends Librem 5 every | year, and they _never_ recommend anything requiring | binary blobs. I have no doubt it will be certified (later | rather than sooner). | marcodiego wrote: | I couldn't find "FSF did not certify the phone, because | they did not receive the units yet" in the links you | posted. | | Purism has been tight-lipped about getting ryf | certification. These maneuvers around memory and hdmi | look more like cheating to me. According to the links I | posted, i.MX8 cannot be deblobbed. I stand by what I say: | I don't think the librem-5 will ever get ryf-certified. | fsflover wrote: | > I couldn't find "FSF did not certify the phone, because | they did not receive the units yet" in the links you | posted. | | Just below the picture of the phone, first sentence: | _While we 're still waiting to get our hands on one, this | device looks promising_: | https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v11. | | > These maneuvers around memory and hdmi look more like | cheating to me. | | Why does it matter to you that a secondary CPU which has | no access to anything runs proprietary blobs to train the | RAM? Do you also care about proprietary firmware of SSDs | (and avoid them)? | marcodiego wrote: | > > I couldn't find "FSF did not certify the phone, | because they did not receive the units yet" in the links | you posted. | | > Just below the picture of the phone, first sentence: | While we're still waiting to get our hands on one, this | device looks promising: | https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v11. | | I'd still argue that it is a bit different from "FSF did | not certify the phone, because they did not receive the | units yet". | | > > These maneuvers around memory and hdmi look more like | cheating to me. | | > Why does it matter to you that a secondary CPU which | has no access to anything runs proprietary blobs to train | the RAM? Do you also care about proprietary firmware of | SSDs (and avoid them)? | | To makes things clear: I'm not opposed to the "secondary | processor exception". In this case specifically, the | firmware was artificially stored on a ROM chip, and | copied from there to "a secondary processor" by the main | processor to unlock a feature (train the RAM) to allow | the main processor to work properly. This is a bit too | much for me. Also, I'm not sure the HDMI initialization | runs on a secondary processor. | | Also, librem-5 getting ryf-certified would make me very | very happy. I really would love to see this happen. | spansoa wrote: | This could be useful for web development. You could download a | bunch of Android browsers and test your site(s) with them, | without having to do that on a finicky phone (for those who want | to do everything on a desktop PC) | Jiejeing wrote: | You know you have been able to do that for ages using the | official android emulator, right? | underscore_ku wrote: | so now we have waydroid and anbox | xt00 wrote: | It sort of looks like these guys said hey if anbox folks aren't | going to update their android version, let's fork it and do our | own thing? There are some random anbox files in the repo for | waydroid. | chrismorgan wrote: | Waydroid was formerly known as anbox-halium; I believe it was | a rewrite of Anbox to use system capabilities more or | something, but I'm fuzzy on the details. | | (As to what it's _now_ known as, I'm not actually certain: in | _most_ places it's spelled Waydroid, but there are a number | of places where it's spelled WayDroid instead. Waaaaah! I | can't cope!) | xt00 wrote: | oh super interesting to know about the anbox-halium | history, thanks for that info. | marcodiego wrote: | Doubts: | | - Is it better/faster/more compatible than anbox? | | - Runs on ARM? | | - Does it allows me to watch DRM streaming services on my linux | box? | | - Can I install google play on it? | judge2020 wrote: | > - Does it allows me to watch DRM streaming services on my | linux box? | | It doesn't include a HSM, so if it does allow you to watch DRM | content, it'll only be Widevine level 3 content, which most | services restrict to 420p or sometimes 720p streaming. | | https://support.google.com/widevine/answer/6072714?hl=en | chrismorgan wrote: | Waydroid has Android use your actual Linux kernel, so on an | x86-64 host you'll run x86-64 Android, and on an ARM host, ARM | Android. This means that there will be some apps that won't run | on your Intel/AMD computer. I have no idea at all how common it | is for Android apps to be tied to ARM, but I imagine that ARM64 | will have helped with architecture-neutrality. | kllrnohj wrote: | > but I imagine that ARM64 will have helped with | architecture-neutrality. | | What would have helped a lot more here is the default | emulator in Android Studio is currently, and has been for a | while now, x86. Since of course x86 to x86 virtualization is | a _lot_ faster than ARM to x86 virtualization. | | ARM64 didn't do much to help with architecture-neutrality | just like X86_64 didn't. | bogwog wrote: | If the app doesn't use any native libraries, it should be | able to run on any architecture. Otherwise, I don't think | you'll find many developers shipping x86/x86_64 binaries | nowadays considering there are no real devices that use it. | | I think Intel has (or had?) a tool/library for translating | ARM to x86 called Houdini. Can't seem to find it though, and | it might require a license anyways. | oynqr wrote: | Aren't x86 chromebooks real devices? | CameronNemo wrote: | If you mean x86_64 then yes certainly. They are about as | common as ARM64 Chromebooks these days. | bogwog wrote: | Can Chrome books run Android apps? | lights0123 wrote: | Yes they can. It's been an advertised feature for a few | years. | bogwog wrote: | TIL! In that case, x86 builds are probably more common | than I assumed. | gizdan wrote: | > This means that there will be some apps that won't run on | your Intel/AMD computer. | | Should be able to still run them if you use binfmt_misc. Of | course it will be slower but it's possible. | westurner wrote: | > _binfmt_misc_ | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binfmt_misc | | > _binfmt_misc can also be combined with QEMU to execute | programs for other processor architectures as if they were | native binaries.[9]_ | | QEMU supported [ARM guest] machines: https://wiki.qemu.org/ | Documentation/Platforms/ARM#Supported_... | | Edit: from "Running and Building ARM Docker Containers on | x86" (which also describes how to get CUDA working) | https://www.stereolabs.com/docs/docker/building-arm- | containe... : sudo apt-get install qemu | binfmt-support qemu-user-static # Install the qemu packages | docker run --rm --privileged multiarch/qemu-user-static | --reset -p yes # Execute the registering scripts | docker run --rm -t arm64v8/ubuntu uname -m # Test the | emulation environment | | https://github.com/multiarch/qemu-user-static : | | > _multiarch /qemu-user-static is to enable an execution of | different multi-architecture containers by QEMU [1] and | binfmt_misc [2]. Here are examples with Docker [3]._ | westurner wrote: | Why the heck isn't there just an official Android | container and/or a LineageOS container? | | It's not a certified device, so. | | There are a number of ways to build "multi-arch docker | images" e.g. for both x86 and ARM: OCI, docker build, | podman build, buildx, buildah. | | Containers are testable. | genewitch wrote: | What streaming service doesn't work on FF ESR on Linux? | | Netflix and prime and Pluto do, at least. That's all I use, so | I am curious. I don't stream anything else, no Roku or Android- | tv or whatever. | CameronNemo wrote: | None on ARM. Google never offered widevine to Firefox on | ARM64. | marcodiego wrote: | Exactly, AFAIK you can't watch netflix on your ARM SBC. | JanMa wrote: | You can, all you need to do is to extract the widevine | binary from a ChromeOS arm build and put them on your | Pi/ARM board. | | Admittedly, it's a bit cumbersome to do this, but it | works very well. I've been watching Netflix on my | Raspberry Pi 4 for over a year using it. | | Also, according to this guy [0] you now seem to be able | to just install libwidevine in Raspberry OS. I haven't | tested this yet though. | | [0]: https://lemariva.com/blog/2021/04/raspberry-pi- | amazon-prime-... | CameronNemo wrote: | Right, as long as you are using Chrome (maybe chromium in | a 32 bit chroot or container if you do not have an RPI), | you can use widevine. But I'm not a big fan of the RPI | devices, or chrome. | Spivak wrote: | I feel like you're expecting a lot from a a container running | LineageOS with some integrations into the window manager. | | It's a container so the arch matches the host kernel. | | In general on LineageOS it's possible to install gapps. | | You won't be able to watch DRM streaming services that require | Widevine higher than L3 support. | rektide wrote: | > _Is it better /faster/more compatible than anbox?_ | | From the Anbox website: | | > _" We're reusing what Android implemented within the QEMU- | based emulator for OpenGL ES accelerated rendering."_ | | I'm not certain but I believe WayDroid more directly attempts | to provide Android drawing subsystems on top of Wayland. This | should be better/faster. Cross fingers. | | Compatibility wise, I'm unsure. Anbox may be a more faithful | Android platform perhaps. Waydroid feels like it's a closer | integration to me, with less virtualized-machinery, which is a | much wider support target since it's running directly atop a | wide variety of hosts. But I for one am very glad we have a | closer integrated option, one where Android apps are running | more within the Linux desktop context. | | There's probably a bunch wrong with my understandings here. | Hoping some even better informed people can correct/supplement. | puppet-master wrote: | Followed instructions for 21.04 (distro = "hirsute"), greeted | with complaint about binder missing. Found some bug report on the | web suggesting I must rebuild my kernel to enable binder. Noped | out of there. | | Looks like a nice effort though. Is this some problem specific to | 21.04 kernel config? | CameronNemo wrote: | I have seen an error like that with anbox before, but it was | not on Ubuntu. I just had to mount the binderfs and it stopped | complaining. Might be worth a try: mount -t | binder binder /dev/binderfs | | https://brauner.github.io/2019/01/09/android-binderfs.html | iam-TJ wrote: | In Ubuntu kernels the Android modules are named "binder_linux" | and "ashmem_linux" so: sudo modprobe | binder_linux sudo modprobe ashmem_linux | | Where $version is the kernel version, for -generic kernels they | are in the package "linux-modules-extra-${version}-generic" and | for -lowlatency "linux-modules-${version}-lowlatency". On | -generic the modules-extra may sometimes not be installed by | default. | madushan1000 wrote: | Also if you have secureboot on,you won't be able to load | ashmem because it's not signed by default by ubuntu. That is | without signing the module yourself. I have waydroid running | in 21.04 without any issues. | jeroenhd wrote: | One thing I've run into with these projects is that they don't | work well in a multi user setting. Anbox specifically assumes | that only a single user is present in the system and having | multiple users with multiple app profiles seems to be entirely | unsupported. | | I can't find anything about that use case in the description | here, but if anyone has tried it I'd love to hear if Waydroid | would be a fit for my use case. | nirav72 wrote: | Interesting. Might have to see if this can run tasker for | automation ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-09-22 23:00 UTC)