[HN Gopher] Investigators say they've finally identified the Zod... ___________________________________________________________________ Investigators say they've finally identified the Zodiac Killer Author : afrcnc Score : 232 points Date : 2021-10-06 18:32 UTC (4 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.fox13now.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.fox13now.com) | silksowed wrote: | Mr. Cruz ? /s | aquova wrote: | So two new pieces of evidence are offered up by this article, | firstly that Zodiac was identified by several witnesses as having | a forehead scar, including being drawn on the famous sketch of | him, which matches a scar Poste had at the time. Secondly, some | sort of new solution to the cipher is possible by omitting | Poste's full name in some way. | | As exciting as it would be, I always take these claims about | famous cases being solved with a grain of salt. It seems they | were also denied DNA evidence from another California case, and | bringing up excitement about Zodiac might let them press the | issue further. The scar I don't think is definitive proof by any | means, but if there is some new explanation to one of the | ciphers, I would be very interested in seeing it. | koboll wrote: | The guy REALLY looks like the police sketches too. Almost | perfectly the same, except for maybe a slight difference in | nose width. | gremloni wrote: | Does anyone else have issues with identifying and describing | facial features. I have no problems recognizing people, but | there's no way I can verbalize them on a specific features | basis. What kind of disorder do I have? | jahnu wrote: | Perhaps the artists are trained to ask questions of | witnesses that reveal details you wouldn't be able to give | up unprompted? | [deleted] | polynomial wrote: | Apparently there was also a paint-splattered watch recovered at | the Bates killing scene (tied to ZK in 1975 by FBI) and he | spent decades as a house painter. There was also a recovered | boot print from that scene that apparently was a match to him. | | I guess we'll all have to wait for all the true crime podcasts | to spill the rest of the beans. | Bayart wrote: | David Oranchak's video last on his, Sam Blake's and Jarl Van | Eycke's cracking of Cipher Z-340 last year : | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1oQLPRE21o | [deleted] | [deleted] | johncessna wrote: | Weird, I just finished watching Veritasium's [1] latest video | which featured the techniques for finding the Golden State | Killer, and saw this one come across the feed. | | [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT18KJouHWg | nick_ wrote: | Mr. Zodiac creates spooky mysteries even still... | poundtown wrote: | bit unsettling hearing about his posse. | sfblah wrote: | Well that's a relief. Now they can arrest and prosecute him! | Shared404 wrote: | > The Case Breakers say they have identified the Zodiac Killer | as Gary Francis Poste, who passed away in 2018. | | It would appear not. | romwell wrote: | I believe the parent comment was a sarcastic remark on that | very fact. | Shared404 wrote: | Yeah, I realized that a little too late :P . | | Usually I'm pretty decent at picking up sarcasm over the | internet, but not today it turns out. | julianapostate wrote: | people on HN only use exclamation points in code or sarcasm | kelseyfrog wrote: | Thank you for pointing it out bluntly. For people like | me, it does help to read the unwritten rules. | romwell wrote: | /s (for those only reading the comment section) | misterbwong wrote: | Not sure if missing a /s but FTA: The Case | Breakers say they have identified the Zodiac Killer as Gary | Francis Poste, who passed away in 2018. | irrational wrote: | Oh good, Ted "Cancun" Cruz will finally be put into prison. | | In all seriousness, my daughter in college was in a psychology | class where they were talking about serial killers. The Zodiac | killer came up and a guy in the class said, in all seriousness, | "Isn't Ted Cruz the Zodiac killer?" | ncmncm wrote: | I, personally, know of no hard evidence that could conclusively | prove that. | [deleted] | paxys wrote: | The "investigators" mentioned are The Case Breakers, described | (on their website) as "The elite team that's solving our greatest | mysteries". No mention of their actual credentials or | accomplishments. | cyberge99 wrote: | That's because they're still solving them. | | ;) | ljm wrote: | I imagine the Zodiac Killer was actually more than one person. | | Of course, this was back in the time when creating attractive | codewords for dangerous criminals was the norm. | | Who's to say that the coded messages sent to newspapers weren't | actually meant for other people involved in the activity? | HPsquared wrote: | I'm reminded of that scene in Hot Fuzz - "No luck catching them | killers then?" .. "It's just the one killer actually!" | speedybird wrote: | The coded messages were handwritten. To my eye, they have the | same handwriting. Occam's Razor is just a rule of thumb, but I | think it applies here. | codezero wrote: | In the fox story, they note that he ran a criminal gang of | about 3 people, and recruited young men looking for a father | figure, so you might be right. | | They paint it as him being the primary one doing the bad things | with the others as just lookouts/help w/ hiding evidence. | caymanjim wrote: | Is anyone familiar with Robert Graysmith's books on the Zodiac | Killer? The Fincher film "Zodiac" is based on Graysmith's | research/obsession. I don't think the film mentions anyone named | Poste at all. I'm wondering if he ever came across Graysmith's | radar. | cf100clunk wrote: | Loads of prior HN discussions on the solving of his cipher: | | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... | romwell wrote: | I believe the crowdsourced investigation has already yielded a | veritable result[1]; I'm not sure why the case needed to continue | being active. | | [1] https://www.tedcruzforhumanpresident.com/ | TedCancruz wrote: | It was me! | DaveSapien wrote: | Nice try Ted Cruz... | Ansil849 wrote: | I feel like at least twice a year, there is some story like | "Zodiac Killer Finally Identified" or "DB Cooper Finally Found". | And behind these stories is usually just one person or group of | people who are presenting their pet theory (which highlighted all | facts supporting it, and conveniently brushes aside all facts | which don't) and have savy media contacts so are able to get | media exposure to help promote what's frequently accompanied by a | book they are trying to sell copies of. | | I don't know if that's the case here, but this pattern of events | has made me just tune out stories like this. I wish media outlets | would be more critical. | jmnicolas wrote: | Don't forget Jack The Ripper! | nobody9999 wrote: | >Don't forget Jack The Ripper! | | That's a mystery long solved, friend[0]. | | [0] https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Sebastian#History | Diederich wrote: | Emmy award nominated Babylon 5 episode! | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comes_the_Inquisitor | | One of the best, among many, of the series. | fhood wrote: | At least the Zodiac killer is recent enough for uncovering | their identity to feel sort of feasible. That said, I | personally find the idea of it being Ted Cruz so amusing that | I see little reason to amend my head-canon, regardless of | evidence presented. | ubermonkey wrote: | THIS. | philwelch wrote: | I believe that would require time travel. | friedegg wrote: | "Asked how a teenage boy could've committed a crime more | than two decades ago, a police spokesman explained 'He's | very clever.'" | duskwuff wrote: | > my head cannon | | The phrase you're thinking of is "headcanon" (cf. | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/canon), although "head | cannon" evokes a much funnier mental image. | fhood wrote: | Despite knowing it was the same base as canonical, it | somehow never occurred to me to spell it that way. Thanks | for the heads up, but since google hasn't decided it | approves of "headcanon" I was forced to compromise in my | correction. | dandelany wrote: | I'm honestly so tired of hearing this lame conspiracy | theory/in-joke. It's so dumb and trollish and barely funny, | all it does is give ammo to repubs who think dems are | wackadoos. Fellow dems, this ain't it. | fhood wrote: | That's cool and all, but I personally enjoy it because of | Ted's personality specifically, not his specific | political affiliation. And also who cares? It's clearly a | joke, one that happens to appeal to my particular sense | of humor. | | There are oodles of topics that provide plenty of | political ammunition, but anybody who takes this one | seriously is an idiot. | dandelany wrote: | Sorry, but I just recently watched a crowd of angry | trolls sell memes and Internet in-jokes as facts to | droves of angry Facebook users, and then they combined | forces to elect a fascist. I no longer believe this kind | of crap is inconsequential. | [deleted] | lqet wrote: | I find this quite convincing: | | > In one note, the letters of Poste's full name were removed to | reveal an alternate message, [Jen Bucholtz, a former Army | counterintelligence agent] told Fox News. | | > "So you've got to know Gary's full name in order to decipher | these anagrams," Bucholtz said. "I just don't think there's any | other way anybody would have figured it out." | Ansil849 wrote: | > I find this quite convincing | | I would find evidence of it actually convincing, which you | would think would be foregrounded somewhere. And yet, | mysteriously, it is not. This suggests that the claim is | bullshit. | Pet_Ant wrote: | I want to see the details because there have been some | dubious decipherments before that were a real stretch, so I | want to see how plausible the ananagram is. | fullshark wrote: | I don't understand, so they have a deciphered letter from | zodiac, they removed the individual letters of Gary's name | from the message and got a 2nd message? Is that right? | celticninja wrote: | I think that one message could not be fully decoded, there | seemed to be some cruft in it. My guess is this cruft was | no longer in the decoded message once the letters of his | name are removed. | exporectomy wrote: | Stats or it didn't happen. That kind of seemingly incredible | coincidence can sometimes just be the mind playing tricks on | people who are unaware of how many ways a similar result | could have occurred by chance. | apeace wrote: | This would indeed be convincing, but I can't seem to find any | further information on it. | | Here is the Case Breaker's blog announcement[1]. And here is | a press release from them with some details of their work[2]. | | I'd really like to see this in action, but it seems like they | haven't published it yet. Am I missing it? | | [1] https://thecasebreakers.org/2021/09/the-last-zodiac- | victim/ | | [2] https://secureservercdn.net/166.62.114.250/g9q.07b.myftpu | plo... | kelseyfrog wrote: | I'm missing something here. I could create a coded message | that required apeace to decipher. That doesn't necessarily | mean that I'm you. | philwelch wrote: | But there's no reasonable motive for the Zodiac Killer to | do so. If he wanted to frame Gary Poaste, he would plant | evidence that was more obvious. If he wanted to toy with | the detectives who were trying to discover his identity | though--which is well within the pattern of behavior | observed from the Zodiac Killer--this is exactly the sort | of thing he would do. | treesknees wrote: | From the article | | > In one note, the letters of Poste's full name were removed to | reveal an alternate message, she told Fox News. "So you've got | to know Gary's full name in order to decipher these anagrams," | Bucholtz said. "I just don't think there's any other way | anybody would have figured it out." | | To me it's pretty coincidental if the letters for this person's | full name just happen to be this person who also has other | characteristics matching the description including facial scars | from one of the police sketches. | Amezarak wrote: | The facial scars in the sketch vs the photo seem like a huge | stretch to me personally. It looks like they were just | sketching normal forehead lines. And sketches are not exactly | reliable in the first place. It really seems like someone | desperately looking for a pattern where there isn't one. | Ansil849 wrote: | #1 This is a pretty big claim. Extraordinary claims require | extraordinary evidence. And yet there is no evidence. | | -or- | | #2 It also sounds like they're saying if you remove various | letters of the alphabet from a cipher, you can get a readable | message. This is not notable. | random314 wrote: | #2 seems very notable | codazoda wrote: | It seems like even the article contradicts what this group | says... | | > "Our Homicide Cold Case Unit has determined the murder of | Cheri Jo Bates in 1966 is not related to the Zodiac killer," | the Riverside Police Department's Homicide Cold Case Unit told | Fox News. | bogwog wrote: | It seems like the group asked the police department to test | the DNA found in the Bates case to confirm it once and for | all, but the police department has refused. | | So there's probably some internal politics thing going on | here. | pwinnski wrote: | The FBI says it is related, the local PD says it is not, and | to ask the FBI. The local PD is also refusing to do DNA tests | which would resolve the issue. | Ansil849 wrote: | > The local PD is also refusing to do DNA tests which would | resolve the issue. | | Yeah, mean ol' law enforcement, refusing to do DNA tests | for any crank mystery squad solving team that demands them. | tacocataco wrote: | If the group wants to incurr the costs what does it | matter? | AlexCoventry wrote: | It sounds like there's a little bit of presumed Zodiac-Killer | DNA on his letters, and there's been some preliminary analysis | of it. Hopefully this evidence is suggestive enough to justify | a full comparison. | | https://medium.com/@charlierusso23/why-has-dna-evidence-not-... | jfrunyon wrote: | I don't know enough about the Zodiac Killer to determine whether | or not this is true. But I do know that when the only | $search_engine results to something are from one media network (a | few Fox local & Fox News), and a tabloid... take it with a grain | of salt. | swayvil wrote: | "Investigators" is one of those utterly ambiguous yet powerfully | dominating terms, like "Authorities" and "Scientists". | | We build our epistemological hierarchies like it's 2000 BC. | (Heck, like 2Billion BC, if you think of knowledge as a kind of | termite-mound. Memes are the new pheromones). Fancy cellphones | make no diff. | panzagl wrote: | And makers of true crime podcasts everywhere rejoiced... | mauz wrote: | Looking at the press release [1], it still feels relatively | circumstantial to me. Not sure that we can deem the Zodiac Killer | to be fully identified yet. | | It's definitely not nearly as cut and dry as when they identified | the Golden State killer. | | [1]: | https://secureservercdn.net/166.62.114.250/g9q.07b.myftpuplo... | bena wrote: | Do you know what circumstantial means? | | It doesn't mean "weak". It means "pertaining to circumstances". | | Nearly all evidence is circumstantial. | | DNA is circumstantial evidence. Fingerprints are circumstantial | evidence. A smoking gun is circumstantial evidence. | | Trials are based on circumstantial evidence. Hans Reiser was | arrested, tried, and convicted of murdering his wife based on | nothing but circumstantial evidence that a murder even | occurred. They didn't even have her body. | | If a lawyer would jump up and shout "Objection, evidence is | circumstantial", the judge would look at them and say "Yeah, no | shit, what's your actual objection?" | space_rock wrote: | People don't know how to judge evidence. So they think | circumstantial evidence has no weight | mjburgess wrote: | Consult a dictionary, eg., | | > pointing indirectly towards someone's guilt but not | conclusively proving it. | | You are correct that within a technical legal context most | evidence is circumstantial. But that isnt the only meaning of | the word, and indeed, largely not what is meant. | bena wrote: | What they meant is wrong. | | I can consult Merriam Webster, which agrees with what I | said. https://www.merriam- | webster.com/dictionary/circumstantial%20... | | Or Britannica | | https://www.britannica.com/topic/circumstantial-evidence | | Or Cornell | | https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/circumstantial_evidence | | Or basically any single law firm or courthouse | | https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/legal- | defenses/circumst... | | https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual- | library/abstracts/circumst... | | https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/1-General/CJI2d.Circums | t... | | Yes, inferences must be made. But as a lot of those links | mention, direct evidence (the other kind of evidence) is | often worse as it's usually eyewitness accounts. | | Lazy television writers have done us all a disservice by | repeated implication that circumstantial evidence isn't | good enough. | mannykannot wrote: | Putting aside the very first paragraph ("What they meant | is wrong"), this post makes some sound points. | | It is also the case that the alleged new evidence for | Poste being the killer is, in fact, circumstantial with | respect to the issue of who committed the murders in | question. | | So, returning to that first paragraph, to establish | whether what mauze meant is wrong, we must establish both | that mauze meant something other than what was written, | and that the intended meaning was wrong. | | I do not see any conclusive evidence as to what mause | meant. Furthermore, bena's reply to mause suggests that | the intended meaning was 'weak'. That strikes me as | plausible, but as far as I can tell, it would not be an | obviously wrong characterization of the new evidence. | andrewzah wrote: | https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/circumstantial | | 1. belonging to, consisting in, or dependent on | circumstances | | 2. pertinent but not essential : incidental | | The original comment used the word correctly. Because | dictionaries describe how people actually speak, not | prescribe rules on how to use words. That's why they get | updated every so often as word usages change. | elliekelly wrote: | But this is a word that has a technical meaning and a | colloquial meaning. It doesn't make sense to apply the | colloquial definition when a term is being used in the | context of a technical discussion. | | In other words, the appropriate definition of a term of | art is... circumstantial. ;) | parineum wrote: | > how people actually speak | | To counter that point, "circumstantial" has a legal | meaning that does not change as easily. | dctoedt wrote: | The Cornell Law dictionary that you cited is a good | summary of what lawyers and judges are likely to think: | _Evidence that_ implies _a person committed a crime, (for | example, the person was seen running away from the crime | scene). There must be a lot of circumstantial evidence | accumulated to have real weight. Compare to direct | evidence._ | contravariant wrote: | Usually when a particular interpretation of a word renders it | utterly meaningless then that interpretation is not the | correct one. | | In particular circumstantial _can_ mean 'pertaining to | circumstance' or it can be one of several other meanings | derived from the same root. One of which is its noun form | "Something incidental to the main subject, but of less | importance", which sounds like a more reasonable | interpretation. Or it may even be one of those words that | only has a particular meaning in a legal context. | I_complete_me wrote: | I've been looking for an appropriate context to refer to a | recently new-found word, to wit "polysemy". Is this it? | bena wrote: | People glommed onto the idea of circumstantial meaning weak | from police and legal procedurals. | | And since we are talking about evidence, we should be using | it within the context of evidence. And in that context, | some or all of the evidence being circumstantial has no | bearing on whether or not it is good evidence. | | This isn't a matter of "other meanings [being] derived from | the same root". There is no root. It's a misappropriation | of a word from lazy television writers. | jfrunyon wrote: | > good evidence | | > literally hearsay | elliekelly wrote: | Hearsay evidence can be good evidence, too. | sumosudo wrote: | Other than first-hand knowledge, all evidence is | circumstantial. In response to all your detractors comments: | looking up words in dictionaries for law jargon is a bad | idea, you will get yourself thrown in the dock. Blacks | dictionary only. | | CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. The term in- cludes all evidence of | indirect nature. Milligan v. State, 109 Fla. 219, 147 So. | 260, 263. It is direct evidence as to facts deposed to but | indirect as to the factum probandum, Brown v. State, 126 | Tex.Cr.R. 449, 72 S.W.2d 269, 270; evidence of facts or | circumstances from which the existence or nonexistence of | fact in issue may be inferred. People v. Steele, 37 N.Y.S.2d | 199, 200, 179 Misc. 587; Wolff v. Employers Fire Ins. Co., | 282 Ky. 824, 140 S.W.2d 640, 645, 130 A.L.R. 682; Scott v. | State, 57 Ga.App. 489, 195 S.E. 923, 924; inferences drawn | from facts proved, Hatfield v. Levy Bros., 18 Ca1.2d 798, 117 | P. 2d 841, 845; preponderance of probabilities, Hercules Pow- | der Co., v. Nieratko, 113 N.J.L. 188, 173 A. 606, 610; pro- | cess of decision by which court or jury may reason from | circumstances known or proved, to establish by inference the | principal fact, People v. Taddio, 292 N.Y. 488, 55 N.E. 2d | 749, 750. It means that existence of principal facts is only | inferred from circumstances. Twin City Fire Ins. Co. v. | Lonas, 255 Ky. 717, 75 S.W.2d 348, 350. When the existence of | the principal fact is deduced from evidentiary by a process | of probable reasoning, the evi- dence and proof are said to | be presumptive. Best, Pres. 246; Id. 12. All presumptive | evidence is circumstantial be- cause necessarily derived from | or made up of circum- stances, but all circumstantial | evidence is not presumptive. Burrill. The proof of various | facts or circumstances which usual- ly attend the main fact | in dispute, and therefore tend to prove its existence, or to | sustain, by their consistency, the hypothesis claimed. Or as | otherwise defined, it consists in reasoning from facts which | are known or proved to es- tablish such as are conjectured to | exist. | | INDIRECT EVIDENCE. Is that which only tends to establish the | issue by proof of various facts sustaining by their | consistency the hypothesis claimed. It consists of both | inferences and pre- sumptions. Lake County v. Neilon, 44 Or. | 14, 74 P. 212, 214. | polynomial wrote: | This is exactly why I want to see more info about the cipher | they solved (that and my innate interest in ciphers.) The claim | is that when you remove all the letters of his full name, there | is a 2nd message hidden there. | | This is exactly the sort of thing I would immensely like to get | ahold of and apply some stochastic models to, in addition to | just knowing more of the specifics. | | In any case, if they have truly deciphered a message that | implicates him, it would be significantly more than | circumstantial. | | What really pains me is the paucity of substantial information | backing up the claim, that and the story seems to have been | broken by TMZ, ugh. | gumby wrote: | This case didn't only inspire documentaries but also inspired the | song "Dire Wolf" by the Grateful Dead. | watertom wrote: | The Zodiac didn't inspire the song, the Hound of the | Baskerville's inspired the song. | | "So the Zodiac actually emerged some months after the song was | finished" | | Story behind the song "Dire Wolf" | http://deadessays.blogspot.com/2012/10/dire-wolf-1969.html | gumby wrote: | The full quotation from the page you linked to is, | | "So the Zodiac actually emerged some months after the song | was finished - but, as we'll see, Garcia immediately made the | connection between the killer and the song in live shows that | October, when Zodiac frenzy gripped San Francisco. (He was | recording pedal steel in the studio for CS&N on October 24; | and on October 26 he mentions the Zodiac and "paranoid | fantasies" onstage; so his memory of driving home in fear | seems to be quite literal.)" | | Is a song, especially a Dead song, finished when the pen | leaves the paper? | oh_sigh wrote: | What are the ethics of potentially identifying deceased people as | baddies? Unless there is DNA evidence which remains(which I | doubt), or they find incontrovertible evidence in his home or | something like that(I also doubt), this is just a guess that will | drastically affect his probably otherwise-normal family whether | the allegations are true or not. | no_butterscotch wrote: | This was my first thought as well. | | Other ethics include the press now reaching out to the | surviving family of this man? "So and so, who call themselves | investigators, say your father is the Zodiac Killer! Thoughts?" | | Are there rules around this crap? | lazide wrote: | Near as I can tell, as long as they don't have an estate to sue | you it's a-ok (based on current media cycles anyway). Only | mostly sarcastic. | nescioquid wrote: | This was the question on my mind as well. The alleged "perp" | died in 2018, but I didn't see any mention of the duration of | the group's investigation. Did this group identify him as a | person of interest before his death? If so, that raises yet | more more questions (e.g. no statutory limitation on murder). | | > Hans Smits told Fox News he spent 10 years hiding a | whistleblower who said he escaped a criminal "posse" headed by | Poste. The man, who The Case Breakers only referred to as Wil, | told Smits the posse roamed California's High Sierra region and | that he was "groomed into a killing machine." | | > Smits said he gave Wil financial, logistical and emotional | support over the years and moved him around for nearly 10 years | in an effort to keep him safe. | | > "I'm the one that took him to the FBI office and put him on a | train and sent him out of state," Smits said. | | The story does not seem to explicitly state Smits is a member | of the Case Breakers, but if Smits knows Wil, and Case Breakers | only identify the whistleblower as Wil, it seems to imply Smits | is a member of Code Breakers. | | If that is all true, they were working Poste as a person of | interest while he was still alive. | purple_ferret wrote: | A quick google doesn't show this guy on lists of common suspects. | | Where did he come from and what is supposed to be his motive? | darepublic wrote: | Time for another zodiac movie, this time including the subsequent | murders and the eventual posthumous uncovering of the murderer. | No matter how convincing the evidence it's just not satisfactory | that the guy can't be tried. | bickeringyokel wrote: | Can't wait for Hollywood to make the new movie and change all | the details of this new evidence for entertainment value. | julienchastang wrote: | How about using this same forensic team to determine the true | identity of Satoshi Nakamoto :-) | real_satoshi wrote: | Look, I don't know why this keeps coming up. I am _not_ the | zodiac killer. | technocratius wrote: | Please don't try to turn this place into reddit. | dane-pgp wrote: | Please try to turn Reddit into this place. | ncmncm wrote: | Now that we have _maybe_ identified somebody who killed, what, 37 | people?, let 's start identifying individuals responsible for | _millions_ of more horrendous deaths, often drawn out over months | of suffering, and maybe try to stop them. | | The guys who first put lead in gasoline are long dead already. | There were people who fought getting it out of the gasoline, and | they are mostly dead, by now, too. Likewise, leaded paint. That | was banned in 1978. Thousands of people are still being killed by | paint exposure, though, many indirectly by violent tendencies | induced by lead paint exposure, which people still experience, by | the millions, every day. | | Lots of people fought tooth and nail to keep people in doubt | about tobacco smoke causing lung cancer. They are mostly dead. | The top academic in statistics was one of those, and was | personally responsible for decades of denial that observational | study could determine causation, fetishizing random-controlled | trials, RCTs. (RCTs are great, but anybody who insists that | _only_ RCTs can demonstrate causation is a fetishist.) He 's dead | too, but his legacy lives on, still killing people _en mass_. | | The people who started hydrogenating vegetable oils, starting | with waste cottonseed oil, are long dead. But trans fats, | produced by hydrogenation, were only (technically) banned from | the US diet in 2017. That was an outcome of Fred Kummerow's | entire career: he knew in the '50s that trans fats were poison, | and worked for decades to get them banned. He died in 2016. I say | "technically" because certain corporations have special | dispensation to continue poisoning people. Maybe, catch them? | Maybe, catch whoever fought the 2017 ban, who had poisoned people | for many decades before, and sought to continue? They are mostly | still alive. | | The biggest public health problem in the US today, killing way | more than COVID-19, comes from (being precise!) consumption of | fructose without adequate accompanying fiber. The sodas, | Coke/Pepsi the biggest, but also juice, apple, orange, cranberry, | Red Bull, Monster, are worst. But sugar, which is half fructose, | is added to _practically everything_ nowadays, not just breakfast | cereal. Almost the whole food industry is devoted to stripping | out fiber and selling the rest; when "the rest" has, or gets | added, sugar, it becomes slow poison. (Robert Lustig videos on | Youtube are a great way to start learning about this. He has | books out, too. Lustig is an endocrinologist, the smartest kind | of medical doctor.) | | One of the reasons sugar is added to everything is that we were | told for decades that saturated fat was bad for us. (Another is | that sugar production is _massively_ subsidized, so is the | cheapest ingredient.) All the stuff blamed on sat fat turns out | to be caused, instead, by the trans fats and sugar. The saturated | fat is not only totally harmless, it is important for brain | function, so its loss compounds the problem. | | Thus, the people taking fiber out of and putting sugar into | everything are the biggest _current_ mass killers. Likewise, | everybody maintaining sugar production subsidies. Stringing them | up may be an over-reaction. Anyway _stopping them_ seems like a | good idea. At least, require fructose-content and fructose vs. | fiber labeling? Think about them next time the news is full of | somebody killing a dozen people. Is a dozen bad, but millions _A- | OK_? | boogies wrote: | > Robert Lustig videos on Youtube are a great way to start | learning about this. | | Or off YT: | | https://videos.lukesmith.xyz/w/feioCyaQEZ1ogHK1oNJM4K | | > Thus, the people taking fiber out of and putting sugar into | everything are the biggest current mass killers. Stringing them | up may be an over-reaction. Maybe convicting them would be, | too? Anyway stopping them seems like a good idea. Think about | them next time the news is full of somebody killing a dozen | people. Is a dozen bad, but a million A-OK? | | IMO simply not compelling millions of people to pay them for it | would be a good start. Defund all the agencies that promote | poison, whether by subsidizing corn syrup, villianizing natural | saturated fats to sell trans fats and sugar, or conspiring with | drug companies and corrupt researchers to sell addictive | substances (as discussed this week: | https://dynomight.net/alcohol-trial/). | ncmncm wrote: | I like to play the videos at 1.5x-2x speed, with subtitles. | That makes a 90-minute lecture take a more easily found 60 or | 45 minutes. | | Tobacco advertising is banned in the US, and tobacco use is | in decline there. (The US State Department works to outlaw | bans in other countries. True!) A ban on advertising sugar- | laced products -- high sugar-to-fiber ratio products, | specifically -- ought to help. | sva_ wrote: | > The saturated fat is not only totally harmless, | | I was under the impression that you should still keep a balance | between unsaturated and saturated fats to keep cholesterol in | check? | ncmncm wrote: | I have not heard of any such thing. Inuit who have never had | access to unsaturated fat do not start getting heart disease | until they adopt a supermarket-driven diet. | | Cholesterol as a measure of health is driven to some degree | by Big Pharma, who would like to have everyone taking statins | for the whole rest of their lives. Certainly, dietary | cholesterol is absolutely harmless, always has been. | wbhart wrote: | According to an article on PubMed, that's largely a myth, | based on early, faulty studies [1]. | | [1] "Low incidence of cardiovascular disease among the | Inuit--what is the evidence?" | amatecha wrote: | "For the full story, and more evidence from the Case Breakers, | visit"[0] | | Can we update the link to just go to the full story rather than | the summarized version? (sorry, I know it's kinda "offtopic" but | that just bugged me starting to read and just being redirected to | another site) | | [0] https://www.foxnews.com/us/cold-case-zodiac-killer- | identifie... | [deleted] | [deleted] | lqet wrote: | By far the most interesting takeaway from the full FOX news | article is that it seems possible that the Zodiac Killer was | actually _a group_ of people: | | > Hans Smits told Fox News he spent 10 years hiding a | whistleblower who said he escaped a criminal "posse" headed by | Poste [now identified as the Zodiac]. The man, who The Case | Breakers only referred to as Wil, told Smits the posse roamed | California's High Sierra region and that he was "groomed into a | killing machine." | | > In addition, Wil said he witnessed Poste burying murder | weapons in the woods, Smits said. | | > "They put out several bear caches out there in case something | happened," Smits said. | | > Smits said he gave Wil financial, logistical and emotional | support over the years and moved him around for nearly 10 years | in an effort to keep him safe. | | > Despite being dead for three years, some people are | mysteriously still loyal to him, said Michelle, who also | declined to provide her last name. | | > "He targeted young men who didn't have a father figure," she | said. "It was a posse of three but the one [Poste] did a lot of | damage. He still has some kind of control... and he's gone." | microtherion wrote: | This part of the article actually made me _more_ skeptical | about the rest of the claims. The rest sounds like fairly | convincing forensics, but then it veers off into rather | outlandish conspiracy territory. And if you look at the | earlier article on the "Case Breakers" site, the whole thing | appears to have _started_ in conspiracy territory: | https://thecasebreakers.org/2021/09/the-last-zodiac-victim/ | | That's not to say that no such weapons cache exists. I | imagine there must be plenty of outlaw-ish people in rural | regions with sizable above- and underground collections of | firearms. But often their boasts of paramilitary acumen tend | to be rather overstated, so claims of a serial killer | grooming posthumously loyal killing machines would require | rather extraordinary proof. | CancunVacation wrote: | So that means that Ted Cruz hasn't been ruled out as a | suspect? | [deleted] | gaetgu wrote: | One hundred percent. That is something that, to my knowledge, | was not known before. If it is indeed true then it would | bring some interesting questions along with it. | colpabar wrote: | It's fox news, it would get flagged immediately. Using the | local station seems to have bought some time. | efojs wrote: | Articles on the Case Breakers' site: | | https://thecasebreakers.org/2021/10/cold-case-team-says-zodi... | | https://thecasebreakers.org/2021/09/the-last-zodiac-victim/ | | Press release #1: | https://secureservercdn.net/166.62.114.250/g9q.07b.myftpuplo... | gandalfian wrote: | So no one from the film. | steve76 wrote: | Dig him up and whip his bones. | jgrahamc wrote: | _Other clues include deciphering letters sent by the Zodiac that | revealed him as the killer, said Jen Bucholtz, a former Army | counterintelligence agent who works on cold cases. In one note, | the letters of Poste 's full name were removed to reveal an | alternate message, she told Fox News. | | "So you've got to know Gary's full name in order to decipher | these anagrams," Bucholtz said. "I just don't think there's any | other way anybody would have figured it out."_ | | I'd love to see that evidence. | spoonjim wrote: | I'll need some more evidence to believe it. They're strongly | citing the "scars" on his forehead which, to my eye, look a lot | like the wrinkles on anyone's forehead. | philwelch wrote: | If you look closely, different people don't tend to have | matching forehead wrinkles. | pengaru wrote: | For anyone disinterested in giving any FOX site clicks, here's an | alternative source: | | https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Investigators-claim-thi... | SubiculumCode wrote: | I wonder if neuroscience will ever come up with a treatment for | serial killers that would cure them of their murderous | obsessions. | | I believe some serial killers are constantly thinking about | murder, while others might have two sides to their personalities | that avoid thinking about the other, like a switch. | ssklash wrote: | From what I've seen/read, it seems like many serial killers | have a consistent urge/voices telling them/impulse to kill that | they are able to resist for a time, lose control, kill, and | then repeat the cycle. | jimbob45 wrote: | I've wondered how many potential serial killers there are out | there that will never kill simply because we, as a society, | have elevated video games, movies, and adult entertainment to | such an extent that killing just isn't as gratifying as blowing | time on WoW, Netflix, or PH. | some_furry wrote: | This is a feature, not a bug. | FooBarBizBazz wrote: | This has probably also lost us virtuosos in other more | positive fields. | outside1234 wrote: | Ted Cruz? ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-10-06 23:00 UTC)