[HN Gopher] A lesser known mechanism for alcohol tolerance
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A lesser known mechanism for alcohol tolerance
        
       Author : klevertree
       Score  : 153 points
       Date   : 2021-10-07 16:38 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (trevorklee.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (trevorklee.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | JoeAltmaier wrote:
       | How about: folks who are drunk, just _think_ they have a high
       | tolerance and are functional.
        
         | shakezula wrote:
         | There are objective and measurable differences between
         | tolerances that this post points out, though.
        
           | JoeAltmaier wrote:
           | Hm, I thought I looked for them and didn't find them.
           | 
           | Reading again, yup nothing there. Just some generalities.
        
             | lloydgrossman wrote:
             | I guess everything is a generality if you believe hard
             | enough.
        
               | JoeAltmaier wrote:
               | That's an ungenerous remark, and un-called for. If there
               | are measures in the article, then please post them.
               | Otherwise lighten up, and cease the ad-hominem attacks.
        
         | drewbitt wrote:
         | Yes, but also no. Through practice alone you do get better at
         | activities while drunk, like walking or driving, but I can
         | assure you that what two drinks did to me when I never drank vs
         | what they do now is entirely different. My rationality stays
         | the same now. Note that the high alcohol content will catch up
         | to you later (you're still dehydrated), but in the moment
         | alcoholics are an entirely different breed a couple drinks in.
         | If you ever hang out with people who drink regularly and those
         | who don't, you'll quickly see the difference.
        
       | 123pie123 wrote:
       | Not sure which I fall into - maybe both
       | 
       | but I very rarely get a hangover (yes this does encourage/ allow
       | school night drinking - inc now)
       | 
       | I have to drink either red wine or over 8 (uk - 568ml) pints of
       | 5%abv lager to start to get fraction of a hangover the next day
       | (starting at a slight thick head level)
       | 
       | incedently for me, eating stuff with sugar and alchol = major
       | acid reflux this took ages to figure out why sometime I was
       | throwing up in the middle of the night (no other symtoms)
       | 
       | another thing that is fairly obivious to me now is how
       | proportional the effect is of the amount of food eaten before
       | drinking and the speed of which you get drunk. This can be used
       | to great effect for big drinking days (eg stag do)
       | 
       | I could easily drink all day comsuming > 15 (uk - 568ml, 5% abv)
       | pints if I keep a level of food in my stomache
        
         | tk75x wrote:
         | I am guessing you are less than 30 years old? give it 5-10
         | years and it'll be much more painful after a heavy night of
         | drinking. sugar and alcohol are both metabolized by the liver,
         | and large amounts of both/either will make you feel poorly. age
         | and frequent use of alcohol and junk food will just wear your
         | body out sooner. the feeling of being drunk is most noticeable
         | when your blood alcohol content is rising, aka when you drink
         | quickly on an empty stomach. but you can have a nice buzz going
         | all day with proper planning and eating beforehand.
         | 
         | I realize after typing this out it sounds a bit preachy, but
         | take it as a caution from someone who felt invincible in their
         | 20s
        
           | 123pie123 wrote:
           | nope - well over 50
           | 
           | because I understand how my body works with alcohol, I can
           | now manage my alcohol better (with food/ sugar) I can drink
           | very much more now
           | 
           | forgot to mention - I ALWAYS have one month off drinking (typ
           | January)
           | 
           | and Oktoberfest is the best place in the world - make sure
           | you dress up properly though
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | oaktrout wrote:
       | The author seems confused about how BK channels relate to
       | tolerance, here he notes that decreased BK channels lead to
       | increased tolerance: "Exposure to alcohol upregulates microRNA
       | (mir-9), which in turn modifies BK mRNA, selectively
       | destabilizing certain types of BK mRNA."
       | 
       | Then later he seems to be stating that decreased BK channels
       | would lead to decreased tolerance: "The consequence of this would
       | then be that the development of alcohol tolerance could be slowed
       | or halted by preventing the modification of BK channels, like by
       | using RNAi to degrade certain types of BK mRNA."
       | 
       | Perhaps he meant "by using RNAi to degrade mir-9". Ignoring the
       | above issues, it seems very hand wavy to say "let's just get this
       | RNA interfering drug into your brain and target this specific BK
       | RNA".
        
       | atourgates wrote:
       | I just want to point out the amazing amount of alcohol you'd have
       | to ingest in a short time to get to the 1% BAC referenced in this
       | article.
       | 
       | Obviously there are lots of variables based on your size and
       | individual physiology, but on average, each drink raises your BAC
       | somewhere around .02%.
       | 
       | So, even without accounting for an enlarged liver that processed
       | alcohol more quickly, that driver with a 1% BAC in South Africa
       | must have had around 50 drinks in quick succession, then gotten
       | behind the wheel.
       | 
       | Even if you were drinking liquor, that's basically downing two
       | bottles of whisky in under an hour.
       | 
       | Plenty to kill the average person, but apparently not enough to
       | keep this driver from getting behind the wheel.
       | 
       | Wild.
        
         | dexwiz wrote:
         | You have never seen an alcoholic chug liquor like its water I
         | take it? Long term alcoholics, talking decades+ here not
         | youthful overindulgence, become incredibly tolerant and can
         | consume huge amounts in ways that would make a normal person
         | wretch. These are people who have altered their body chemistry
         | enough that withdrawal is deadly.
        
           | thebean11 wrote:
           | Two bottles in an hour though? I was under the impression
           | that the most hardcore alcoholics consumed that much in a
           | _day_.
        
             | MisterBastahrd wrote:
             | In the mid 90s, I worked for a grocery store doing full
             | time, overnight stock to partially pay for college. One of
             | my co-workers for a period of time, whose name I now
             | forget, was a barely-functional alcoholic. He would show up
             | to work on time most days, and work through his shift. At
             | lunchtime he would disappear for a period of time and he
             | would come back smelling like Listerine.
             | 
             | Because that was his lunch.
             | 
             | A bottle of Listerine.
             | 
             | During the holidays they shifted some of us to a morning
             | shift to continue to put items on shelves to match the
             | holiday demand, and I saw him walk in on his day off, grab
             | a fifth of bourbon and a fifth of vodka in the cheap
             | plastic bottles, walk out, and walk back in about an hour
             | later because he had consumed both bottles in his truck in
             | the parking lot. He wanted a couple more to bring back to
             | his apartment.
             | 
             | And as bad as his drinking was, the reason he had sole
             | custody of his daughter is because his ex-girlfriend was a
             | full blown drug addict and he was good at hiding his
             | drinking from CPS.
        
             | zepolen wrote:
             | I've seen an alcoholic down half a bottle of whiskey for
             | breakfast. Literally.
        
             | jessriedel wrote:
             | My understanding is that serious alcoholics are drunks for
             | days at a time. They go to bed with enough alcohol in their
             | system to be drunk when they wake up, and they keep
             | drinking throughout the day. Having zero alcohol in their
             | system can be life threatening.
             | 
             | That means they can build up to whatever BAC slowly.
        
         | MivLives wrote:
         | I was always told that you eliminate roughly one drink per hour
         | from your system. So it is possible that they did that feat
         | over a longer time span. Staying up all night drinking then
         | hopping in the car seems much more reasonable (at least for how
         | to achieve that BAC, and not as a decision you should make in
         | life).
        
           | mcguire wrote:
           | Eliminating alcohol from your system reduces your BAC. One
           | drink plus one hour _ought_ to give you (fairly close to) a
           | 0% BAC.
        
         | retrac wrote:
         | It's truly incredible. 0.15% is quite drunk for a typical
         | person and most can't stand at 0.2%. At > 0.3% people often
         | require hospitalization. At 1% it's probably over the LD50 for
         | an alcohol-naive person! Though it seems estimates for that
         | value are rather fuzzy.
        
           | throwaway0a5e wrote:
           | >It's truly incredible. 0.15% is quite drunk for a typical
           | person and most can't stand at 0.2%. At > 0.3% people often
           | require hospitalization
           | 
           | Unless you're using insanely puritanical definitions for
           | "quite drunk" and "can't stand" this doesn't check out. One
           | drink is ~0.02 and there's no shortage of college kids will
           | kill 10+ in an hour with no effect other than becoming drunk
           | and a headache the next day.
        
             | morsch wrote:
             | College kids who routinely have 10+ drinks in an hour
             | probably aren't what the GP had in mind when referring to
             | typical persons.
             | 
             | Obviously words like typical on the one hand and
             | puritanical on the other hand are sort of subjective. The
             | NIH, probably on the more puritanical side, considers more
             | than 4-5 drinks on one occasion (not per hour!) as binge
             | drinking[1], or more precisely any drinking that raises BAC
             | beyond 0.08%. As for typical, some random internet page[2]
             | claims that on average, male college students have 9 drinks
             | per week (not per hour!).
             | 
             | [1] https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-
             | fact-sh...
             | 
             | [2] https://www.scramsystems.com/blog/2014/02/infographic-
             | much-c...
        
             | retrac wrote:
             | I'm going by my own experiences. And I don't think I'm
             | puritanical at all, but I am something of a lightweight
             | with alcohol admittedly. I am male and I am a half-
             | recovered alcoholic, for context.
             | 
             | Around 0.05 I'm tipsy to the point of it being obvious.
             | Feeling good, effusive. And if I'm smart I'll stop drinking
             | around here.
             | 
             | At 0.10 I'm flushed, joyous or melancholic, coordination is
             | affected, I might slosh my drink on the table, and I'm
             | going on and maybe making a bit of a fool of myself. I tend
             | to want to go to bed shortly after. I won't have a bad
             | hangover if I eat a good meal but yes, that's quite drunk
             | in my opinion.
             | 
             | And at like 0.15+, I get very sedated. I tend to pass out
             | and while it's not a stupor I am hard to rouse.
             | 
             | Above that is just passed out black-out drunk and I've only
             | done that a few times thankfully, but I have, so I know
             | that most of a bottle of 750 ml of 80 proof on an empty
             | stomach is enough to potentially hospitalize me, and
             | certainly leave me passed out in a puddle of vomit.
             | 
             | These numbers being for when I am alcohol naive. Not having
             | drunk in months. If I have been drinking regularly you
             | could easily double or triple the numbers. Most people do
             | not have alcohol tolerance though, which is why I assumed
             | an alcohol-naive drinker.
        
             | spicybright wrote:
             | I've been a pretty bad alcoholic the past few years. I'm
             | young though. And I'm fairly heavy set too.
             | 
             | My "high score" on a breathalyzer is 0.4%, and that was
             | black out barfey drunk for me.
             | 
             | When in college, NO ONE I knew was able to reach even close
             | to that. If you treat it like a math problem, sure, 1 drink
             | = 0.02.
             | 
             | But in reality, when you can't walk, your body vomits a lot
             | of it out, and friends stop you from drinking, etc. A
             | college aged person without much tolerance can almost never
             | reach that level.
             | 
             | In my AA, no one has gotten close to that. .6 at the most
             | at their worst.
        
               | throwaway0a5e wrote:
               | I'm no saying .4 is realistically attainable with any
               | regularity. I'm saying that 0.15-.2 is not a very
               | exceptional "24hr high score" for anyone who is drinking
               | to get drunk in said 24hr period. It's basically a
               | 12-pack over 1.5 hr or a 6-pack and some shots over two,
               | neither of which are keg stand type crazy levels of
               | consumption.
               | 
               | HN gets a massive stick up its ass if you suggest that
               | there exists a large subset of the population who's
               | alchohol consumption is not along the lines one high end
               | beer per week night and two on the weekends.
               | 
               | I'm not saying that everyone is crushing a 12pack on a
               | Friday night but to say that people can't stand at .2 is
               | an equally outlandish generalization in the other
               | direction.
        
               | phonypc wrote:
               | 12 beers over a night is one thing, in 1.5 hours is
               | another. A beer every 7.5 minutes? Just the volume of
               | liquid would leave me uncomfortable.
               | 
               | I have no doubt it happens with some regularity, but
               | that's gotta be a least somewhat noteworthy.
        
             | allturtles wrote:
             | Even among binge-drinking college students, 10 drinks an
             | hour is exceptional.
             | 
             | We used to play a game in college where you would drink 1
             | shot of beer per minute (so 90 oz of beer, or 7.5 cans of
             | beer in an hour), and few people could make it past 30
             | minutes.
             | 
             | Source: was a binge-drinking college student.
        
               | throwaway0a5e wrote:
               | You're talking about a power hour. Pretty much everyone
               | makes the hour. Nobody drops out after 30min unless
               | they've been pregaming. Yes it gets you pretty drunk but
               | many people continue drinking afterwards. The alcoholics
               | do it with wine.
               | 
               | Pretty much everyone I hung out with in college were
               | weekend only drinkers, not exactly the hard drinking
               | crowd.
               | 
               | If people were regularly puking at the end it wouldn't be
               | a popular game, just like if a 6-pack weren't a common
               | amount to consume it wouldn't be a typical unit of sale.
        
               | caddemon wrote:
               | Power hours can definitely get you utterly trashed, but I
               | think a big reason people would stop/slow down half way
               | through those is that it's a bit physically
               | uncomfortable. I don't think I could do a power hour with
               | non-alcoholic beer right now if you paid me. I agree 10
               | drinks an hour is super rare though. Just saying if I
               | absolutely had to do that for some reason I'd go with
               | vodka not beer.
        
               | silexia wrote:
               | 90 oz of vodka? You must mean 10 shots of vodka, not the
               | other way I read it.
        
             | bandyaboot wrote:
             | Binge drinking college students aren't "typical [people]"
        
         | erikstarck wrote:
         | Andre the Giant level of consumption.
        
           | spicybright wrote:
           | Maybe even 2 Andres. 1% is insane.
        
         | MaximumYComb wrote:
         | About 10 years ago I called an ambulance for a friend at a
         | party. Everyone had said just to get a taxi for him, so I did.
         | When the taxi arrived I realised I couldn't put him in it and
         | called an ambulance instead.
         | 
         | He had seizures on the way to the hosptial, and was blood
         | tested at 0.7% BAC. He woke up 12 hours later and was still
         | 0.2% BAC (which is really drunk).
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | Good on you for recognizing it as an emergency and responding
           | appropriately.
        
             | silexia wrote:
             | I had a similar situation in a college dorm at age 18. My
             | friend didn't want to get in trouble so just tried to
             | babysit me. I had severe alcohol poisoning and was sick for
             | days. I am still good friends with that guy, but have
             | realized I need to say no to him quite a bit.
        
               | taternuts wrote:
               | Honestly if you are in America, he _might_ have done you
               | a favor as the emergency ride to the hospital costs about
               | 5k (not great for college students), let alone the
               | medical bill. It's always better safe than sorry though.
        
               | markdown wrote:
               | That's insane. Does the St. John Ambulance Brigade not
               | operate in the US? T hey provide free services in many
               | countries and have for decades.
               | 
               | Perhaps the third world needs to send an aid mission to
               | the US.
               | 
               | https://www.stjohninternational.org/
        
         | bandyaboot wrote:
         | Part of it likely has to do with the fact that alcoholics'
         | livers are often dysfunctional, so the .02% average wouldn't
         | necessarily apply to the types of people who can reach 1% BAC.
        
         | nkozyra wrote:
         | The logistics of that got me thinking if there was perhaps
         | instrumentation errors that led to that BAC number. It seems
         | implausible, and not data-centric enough to hang your hat on in
         | a blog post like this.
        
           | throwaway0a5e wrote:
           | Depending on the incentive situation instrumentation errors
           | may be the norm and not the exception. The NJ state police
           | got in trouble for that in the past few years. If the
           | calibration error isn't linear and someone shows up blowing a
           | high number you could get a medically insane number on the
           | screen.
        
         | cromulent wrote:
         | Some of these are interesting:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content#Highest_...
         | 
         | I think anyone who has played with a personal breath test
         | device knows that you can get false readings quite easily, but
         | blood tests are something else altogether.
        
           | RandallBrown wrote:
           | I have a police officer friend and even his breathalyzer
           | gives pretty dramatically different readings.
        
             | aerostable_slug wrote:
             | The unspoken secret to DUI defense: pay $10k for an expert
             | witness to show up and demand access to the breathalyzer's
             | source code and pertinent documentation. The vendor will
             | refuse and the case will be thrown out.
             | 
             | Nobody wants to talk about the (in)accuracy of
             | breathalyzers.
        
               | throwaway0a5e wrote:
               | >Nobody wants to talk about the (in)accuracy of
               | breathalyzers.
               | 
               | That's because like every other bit of tech used to
               | convict people it's designed to err on the side of
               | convicting people not being accurate.
               | 
               | If you want a laugh look up the sensors they use in the
               | alcohol ankle bracelets. Then look up the OEM specs,
               | calibration requirements, usage environment requirements
               | and accuracy claims by the vendors and try and reconcile
               | the two (several research papers have been written about
               | this). The whole industry is lousy.
        
               | outworlder wrote:
               | > The vendor will refuse and the case will be thrown out.
               | 
               | I'm skeptical that a case would be thrown out that
               | easily. I have seen expert witnesses getting chewed by
               | the prosecution on minor details. So what if the source
               | is unavailable. It can be argued that the device is
               | tested and regularly calibrated, and that any
               | inaccuracies found will be minor - and certainly not
               | enough to exonerate the defendant.
               | 
               | Yeah maybe there might be some inaccuracy - but then the
               | defendant failed the standardized field sobriety tests.
               | And the cop is saying that they were visibly drunk. Now
               | what?
        
               | aerostable_slug wrote:
               | > Yeah maybe there might be some inaccuracy - but then
               | the defendant failed the standardized field sobriety
               | tests. And the cop is saying that they were visibly
               | drunk. Now what?
               | 
               | You pay to have a medical expert come in and explain the
               | myriad conditions that can lead to failing the field
               | sobriety tests. It's simply a question of funding. Even
               | if the case isn't dropped the jury will almost certainly
               | have reasonable doubt.
               | 
               | This is partially why, at least in California, major
               | parts of the penalties for DUI are "administrative" in
               | nature and handled by the DMV.
               | 
               | Even if you do get acquitted in criminal court, it's
               | another set of hearings to get your license back ($$$),
               | lose the special "I got a DUI" SR-22 insurance
               | requirement, etc.
        
           | sva_ wrote:
           | > In 2004, an unidentified Taiwanese woman died of alcohol
           | intoxication after immersion for twelve hours in a bathtub
           | filled with 40% ethanol. Her blood alcohol content was 1.35%.
           | It was believed that she had immersed herself as a response
           | to the SARS epidemic.
           | 
           | Bizarre
        
             | Chris2048 wrote:
             | IF she wanted to clean her skin, Why on earth would she
             | bathe for more than 10 mins?! It must have burned!
        
               | boogies wrote:
               | Perhaps the fumes made her too drunk to leave? Is that
               | possible?
        
             | giantg2 wrote:
             | I'd imagine the fumes were quite bad too. Inhalation can be
             | a different beast when it comes to alcohol.
        
               | sp332 wrote:
               | I thought of the fumes too. Clinical studies show that
               | alcohol doesn't absorb well through skin. e.g.
               | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596158/
               | 
               |  _the wrappings were subsequently soaked with 200 ml of
               | 95% (v /v) ethanol. Although the ethanol-soaked cotton
               | was kept covering the skin with rubber sheeting and
               | adhesive tapes for 4-9 hours, no ethanol was measurable
               | in the blood._
        
               | satellite2 wrote:
               | Some also probably entered the bloodstream via the colon
               | / genitals.
        
               | giantg2 wrote:
               | Interesting. I didn't realize it was that bad at
               | absorption.
        
         | foolfoolz wrote:
         | 0.02% BAC per drink is wildly underestimated. many people will
         | reach the driving limit of .08 after 2 drinks
         | 
         | there's a chart on this dmv page that shows you have to be
         | 240lbs to get .02 per drink
         | 
         | https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-han...
        
           | slaymaker1907 wrote:
           | It seems like this isn't the most precise chart which I think
           | is likely in order to avoid underestimating intoxication.
           | 
           | https://www.businessinsider.com/drinks-before-driving-if-
           | bac... has me at 0.13 after 5 drinks versus 0.21 according to
           | the CA chart. This is an astromical difference that I implies
           | at least one source is lying via statistics.
        
           | giantg2 wrote:
           | Considering the rate of obesity, .02 per drink might be more
           | common than one would think. That said, people should
           | calculate it for themselves than use rules of thumb.
           | 
           | I'm not convinced of the values in that table. I think they
           | are being very conservative. My calculations using a BAC
           | formula are different. For example, the .02 per drink seems
           | to work for men weighing 215lbs.
        
             | vkou wrote:
             | Do note:
             | 
             | There's a lot of beer these days that's >5% alcohol, so a
             | single beer often has more than one drink.
        
               | 0des wrote:
               | I had to check wikipedia and I am very much dismay to
               | report that it appears they're discontinuing what some
               | may consider to be the topmost of high gravity malt
               | liquor, 211 Steel Reserve Triple Export (a segment of 211
               | Steel Reserve)
               | 
               | RIP, you were taken from us too soon.
        
               | giantg2 wrote:
               | Yeah. Standard drinks are 1.5oz 80 proof, 12 oz 5% beer,
               | or 5oz 12% wine.
        
           | ksdale wrote:
           | Whenever I've looked at the BAC chart and compared it to my
           | drinking, I discover that I would be _incredibly_
           | uncomfortable driving while anywhere near .08 BAC, so I
           | always assumed it was underestimated somehow... or else
           | people are allowed to be way drunker and still drive than
           | seems safe.
        
             | yibg wrote:
             | I think it's the latter. I've tried a few times with a
             | breathalyzer (that I got off of amazon for pretty cheap, so
             | no guarantee on accuracy. Although it was consistent) while
             | drinking and I was pretty shocked at how drunk I felt while
             | still being under 0.08. I always assumed the safe limit
             | would be a beer or 2, after which I'd be driving under the
             | influence. Turns out drinking 5 beers over an hour or 2 I
             | was still only around 0.05.
        
             | vdqtp3 wrote:
             | When I was drinking heavily, I bought an evidence grade
             | breathalyzer. I would use it as directed (wait 15m after
             | eating or drinking, etc) and find that at a .08 I felt fine
             | (which means nothing, obviously) but also I could pass FSTs
             | and no one around me (sober or drunk) could tell that I had
             | been drinking.
             | 
             | Not that anecdotes are data, just to say it 100% depends on
             | the person and the circumstances. Alcohol hits me much
             | harder now.
        
               | ksdale wrote:
               | Interesting! I've always wanted to play around with a
               | breathalyzer.
        
               | randombits0 wrote:
               | There was one in a bar I frequented many years ago, coin
               | op. The cops made them take it out as patrons were
               | competing who could blow the highest.
        
               | muttled wrote:
               | I'm picturing it like an arcade game where you got to put
               | your initials in if you got the high score.
        
             | abduhl wrote:
             | That's interesting. I just looked at this chart and would
             | be incredibly comfortable driving after drinking the
             | maximum number of drinks on the chart (5) which would place
             | me at 0.15 minus say .04 (over 3 hours, minus 0.01 per 45
             | minutes) or 0.11. Perhaps you're just not a big drinker?
        
               | PragmaticPulp wrote:
               | > I just looked at this chart and would be incredibly
               | comfortable driving after drinking the maximum number of
               | drinks on the chart (5)
               | 
               | 0.11 is very definitely impaired, whether or not you
               | "feel" anything.
               | 
               | False feelings of sobriety are common in heavy drinkers
               | (and users of some drugs with similar mechanisms of
               | action)
               | 
               | Please don't drink anywhere near this amount and drive,
               | no matter how sober you might feel.
        
               | abduhl wrote:
               | I'd just point out that this five drinks in three hours
               | is one drink more than the rule of thumb often given out
               | of two drinks in the first hour then one drink per hour
               | afterwards. It's the rare 200 lb person that has 5 beers
               | during a football/baseball/soccer game and is "very
               | definitely impaired." Sobriety limits are justifiably
               | geared towards the lower end to accommodate light-weight
               | drinkers. This is even pointed out on the chart by noting
               | that this is a 95th percentile drunkenness/BAC (i.e., 95%
               | of people are LESS drunk/have a lower BAC than shown or,
               | alternatively, 5% of people are MORE drunk than shown).
        
               | dagw wrote:
               | _Perhaps you're just not a big drinker?_
               | 
               | I think it's more of a question about risk tolerance than
               | alcohol tolerance
        
               | ksdale wrote:
               | Exactly. No one I know would describe me as a
               | lightweight, but when I have 2 drinks in 40 minutes, I'm
               | very well aware that my reaction time and my ability to
               | notice things is reduced to extent that I'd feel like a
               | jackass getting behind the wheel of a car, even if
               | society deems it legal.
        
               | t-3 wrote:
               | It's not legal to drive with _any_ detectable BAC. It 's
               | rarely prosecuted, but you can get in trouble for just
               | one.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | shortstuffsushi wrote:
           | Random, I guess, but what does "fewer than 5 in 100 will
           | exceed these values" mean? Does that mean 5/100 would be more
           | drunk than what's listed there? Less drunk? "Exceed" the
           | weight on the high end?
        
             | p_j_w wrote:
             | Yes, 5/100 (actually, less than 5/100) would be more drunk.
             | It's their way of stating their confidence interval.
        
         | tdrdt wrote:
         | The list on Wikipedia is crazy:
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content (Highest
         | levels)
        
         | rvense wrote:
         | I have just under ten years of AA (and sobriety) under my belt,
         | so I have heard _a lot_ of war stories. I can 't remember ever
         | hearing anyone claim more than about 0.65% BAC. 1% sounds more
         | than a little extreme.
        
           | MivLives wrote:
           | Most normal people pass out at around .2, so the fact this
           | person could turn a car key is crazy.
        
             | pengaru wrote:
             | If you're pounding shots in a drinking game or just hitting
             | the Economy-sized bottle of Bacardi rum directly, it's
             | fairly easy to create a situation where you've gotten
             | behind the wheel buzzed and it all catches up to once
             | you're in motion.
        
               | ksdale wrote:
               | You'd have to literally take those shots and go out to
               | your car in the next few minutes to get surprised like
               | that, which... I guess people would do, but it's not
               | _that_ easy. Pounding shots catches up with you very
               | quickly.
        
               | pengaru wrote:
               | I've definitely had experiences where I managed to queue
               | up a profound amount of alcohol intoxication, becoming
               | realized abruptly after enough time had passed to switch
               | bars on foot.
               | 
               | In one specific instance, I promptly became incapacitated
               | before even receiving my first drink at the new bar,
               | falling off a bar stool and vomiting on the floor, unable
               | to stand again, let alone walk. The bar-tender was
               | convinced I was overdosing on some hard drug apparently
               | and kicked us all out for being junkies, because I went
               | from walking in perfectly normal and ordering a drink, to
               | this complete disaster on the floor, in the time it took
               | her to prepare our drinks... It must have been a 10-20
               | minute delay spent between bars on foot that time. The
               | first bar specialized in stiff sweet cocktails, where
               | they mask stupidly high alcohol content with sugary
               | syrup. IIRC it was called Sugar Lounge (in SF). And I
               | have very low tolerance not being much of a drinker, if
               | you've got tolerance I imagine you can push that time-to-
               | incapacitated delay out quite a bit.
        
               | ksdale wrote:
               | Haha touche, and entertaining story, though I'm sorry it
               | happened to you!
        
           | poetaster wrote:
           | I climbed over a wall in a police station to get into the loo
           | to pee at .25. Drank a litre of water, climbed back over, sat
           | on a bench and waited for someone to give me the drill.
           | Leaving out a lot of details, wound up buying a piano. I
           | don't drink and drive, though. That's mad.
        
             | withinboredom wrote:
             | I once climbed up five floors of balconies to get to the
             | bathroom. No idea why I didn't take the stairs, or the
             | elevator.
        
           | adamc wrote:
           | Just congratulations.
        
       | batty_alex wrote:
       | Isn't this just a really complicated way of saying that Alcohol
       | is a potassium diuretic and your body is adapting to something
       | flushing your potassium all the time?
       | 
       | Not sure if it's lesser-known, though. When doing beer judging,
       | we're told to load-up on foods with lots of fat and potassium to
       | increase our tolerance (senses start working differently after
       | you're toasted, can make judging tough)
        
         | AnimalMuppet wrote:
         | Don't wine testers spit it out, so that their judgment remains
         | unimpaired?
        
           | poooogles wrote:
           | Yes. Often you'll do 3 - 5 tastings a week, sometimes even
           | two in a day so spitting really helps keep the alcohol intake
           | down.
           | 
           | The thing that really gets you is palette exhaustion though.
           | Taste 40 ripe Cali cabs and they all start tasting the same
           | after a point...
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | rzzzt wrote:
             | (If someone wants to search for the term, also try "palate
             | fatigue")
        
       | tombert wrote:
       | For some reason (presumably because I'm tall or because I have
       | too much body fat (thanks Taco Bell!)), I have an extremely high
       | tolerance to alcohol, despite the fact that I almost never drink.
       | It can take upwards of 600ml of whisky for me to really "feel
       | unsafe to drive" [1], which is part of the reason I don't really
       | drink to begin with...If I don't have much fun with it, and it's
       | not healthy for me, I don't really see the point in partaking.
       | 
       | [1] Don't worry, I've never tested this theory, I don't even own
       | a car.
        
         | dpratt71 wrote:
         | Fyi, "Alcohol distributes into water spaces, not fat"
         | https://sites.duke.edu/apep/module-1-gender-matters/content/...
        
           | leodriesch wrote:
           | "See, it's all just water weight!"
        
       | kerblang wrote:
       | My understanding was that increased alcohol intake raises hormone
       | levels, especially cortisol, which raises blood
       | pressure/breathing/etc and keeps you from dying. Also note the
       | jitters experienced as the alcohol is metabolized and things
       | swing out of balance in the opposite direction.
       | 
       | So it would just be a matter of training your adrenals to
       | recognize and react quickly to the incoming booze, which for some
       | people is almost like a violent allergic reaction to a bee sting,
       | causing them to drink heavily in order to calm down. I don't
       | really have any research to back this part up though.
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | "They can drink a lot of alcohol and still have a relatively low
       | blood alcohol level."
       | 
       | Any sources for this? My understanding is that an enlarged liver
       | does not process more alcohol because the enlargement is
       | typically fatty deposits, cirrhosis, and inflammation. I did find
       | an article that says alcoholic livers can produce a different set
       | of enzymes to metabolize the alcohol. But it says it produces a
       | different buzz, bit nothing about faster processing.
        
         | oaktrout wrote:
         | It's well known that alcoholics are for the most part better
         | metabolizers of alcohol (see
         | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S166526811...
         | Current concepts in alcohol metabolism, Caballeria), but its
         | not at all related to liver enlargement. My understanding is
         | that an enlarged liver is a symptom of alcoholic liver disease,
         | not a physiologic adaptation to better metabolize alcohol. The
         | current consensus is that most of the increased metabolism of
         | alcohol comes from enzyme upregulation in the liver.
         | 
         | The authors misunderstanding of physiology makes me doubt any
         | further conclusions he makes.
        
           | giantg2 wrote:
           | "Moreover, in human studies it has been found that alcohol
           | consumption produces an increase in the ethanol elimination
           | rate, specially at high concentrations, which is when the
           | action of MEOS take place.37 This is important since it leads
           | to a greater plasma concentration of acetaldehyde as well as
           | an increase in toxic metabolites which may cause liver
           | damage."
           | 
           | Ah, this is the thing I was mentioning earlier, but my other
           | source didn't say that it increased the elimination rate.
        
         | the-dude wrote:
         | I could drink 1L of wine @ 12% in ~1 hour and about 2.5 hours
         | later feel safe to drive.
         | 
         | Not only did I feel safe to drive, I had to take a breathalyzer
         | once and passed ( although it did have to 'think' a while ).
         | 
         | I did have dinner in the meantime.
        
           | mike_hock wrote:
           | The dude doesn't drink wine. The dude drinks White Russian.
        
             | the-dude wrote:
             | This was in my Seattle Seven period.
        
       | hackingforfun wrote:
       | It sounds like BK channels interact with NMDA receptors, which
       | are glutamate receptors. Glutamate is an excitatory
       | neurotransmitter. My understanding is that inhibiting glutamate
       | is partly what makes alcohol relaxing (the other is it's
       | interaction with GABA). Bodies have an amazing way of keeping
       | themselves in equilibrium and when someone is introducing alcohol
       | into their system on a regular basis, I figured that the body
       | regulates this by increasing levels of glutamate (although maybe
       | also via downregulating GABA receptors), so that the person stays
       | awake even with higher doses of alcohol. I do think that this can
       | lead to someone having a higher "tolerance". I also think that's
       | what contributes to what some people call hangxiety, i.e. there's
       | still extra glutamate floating around that wouldn't otherwise be
       | there.
       | 
       | However, an enlarged liver helping someone process alcohol better
       | sounds bizarre to me. I thought a liver being able to process
       | alcohol faster was due to increased enzymes since the body again
       | is trying to balance itself and is dealing with what is being
       | introduced by upping certain enzymes, whereas in a non-drinker,
       | those enzymes wouldn't be at elevated levels.
        
         | oaktrout wrote:
         | "However, an enlarged liver helping someone process alcohol
         | better sounds bizarre to me. I thought a liver being able to
         | process alcohol faster was due to increased enzymes since the
         | body again is trying to balance itself and is dealing with what
         | is being introduced by upping certain enzymes, whereas in a
         | non-drinker, those enzymes wouldn't be at elevated levels."
         | 
         | You are correct, in fact an enlarged liver could be a sign that
         | you are less able to metabolize alcohol. "To this effect, the
         | adaptative increase in alcohol metabolism observed in chronic
         | alcoholics disappears in patients with advanced liver disease."
         | [1] Liver enlargement is a sign of liver disease. I guess
         | that's the sort of mistake you will encounter when reading
         | posts regarding biochemistry / medicine on hacker news.
         | 
         | [1] Current concepts in alcohol metabolism https://www.scienced
         | irect.com/science/article/pii/S166526811...:
        
       | peter_retief wrote:
       | I definitely fall into the latter category, that is I have very
       | little tolerence for alchohol. There are people I have known who
       | can drink huge amounts and still be functional, these people
       | drink steadily and regularly. I gave up completely about two
       | years ago and I strongly recommend this. I was never a big
       | drinker but stopping has had a dramatic effect on my weight and
       | health. It is not that difficult to stop and has dramatic
       | benefits.
        
       | fouc wrote:
       | I have noticed that with some intentional concentration, I can
       | summon a higher degree of sobriety/functionality than I might
       | ordinarily have when under the influence. I always assumed much
       | of that was from the adrenal glands though.
        
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