[HN Gopher] Gitlab from YC to IPO
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Gitlab from YC to IPO
        
       Author : sandslash
       Score  : 480 points
       Date   : 2021-10-14 13:31 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.ycombinator.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.ycombinator.com)
        
       | prabhatjha wrote:
       | What a success story for yet another open source project
        
         | xtracto wrote:
         | Well, kind of... Gitlab is another of those Freemium "open
         | source" services where you have to pay to have the full
         | functionality.
        
           | system2 wrote:
           | That's fair to me.
        
             | prabhatjha wrote:
             | Exactly.
        
       | teh_klev wrote:
       | "He used to joke that his home office was the biggest GitLab Inc.
       | office in the world because his _EA_ would work there as well. "
       | 
       | Maybe my brain is in a post-lunchtime stupor, but what or who is
       | an "EA"?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | villaaston1 wrote:
         | Executive assistant I think in this case, though I've seen
         | enterprise architect too!
        
         | dabeeeenster wrote:
         | Executive Assistant
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | alphalima wrote:
         | Executive Assistant?
        
         | teh_klev wrote:
         | Thank you everyone.
        
         | karolist wrote:
         | Electronic Arts
        
         | bytematic wrote:
         | Acronyms/Initialisms are great right?
        
       | jedberg wrote:
       | I'll admit that I was wrong about GitLab. I had the chance to
       | invest in them way back in the day, and passed. My thought at the
       | time was that no open source company had ever been super
       | successful except RedHat, which was more of an outlier than a
       | pattern. And my other thought was that they are competing against
       | GitHub, which was extremely popular and well funded.
       | 
       | I honestly didn't think they stood a chance.
       | 
       | I'm happy to have been proven wrong. Congrats to the whole team
       | on their successful exit!
        
         | pankajdoharey wrote:
         | I am always reminded how not so great ideas or even clones when
         | executed well lead to good outcomes.
        
         | klysm wrote:
         | I think if GitHub simply gave free private repos sooner, GitLab
         | would've had a way harder time.
        
           | jbergens wrote:
           | Gitlab was earlier/better at letting companies install a
           | version on-prem.
        
             | mcronce wrote:
             | Their CI story was also a lot better until Github added
             | Actions
        
           | polote wrote:
           | Github is initially B2B SMB and B2C and Gitlab is B2B
           | Enterprise. 10% of Github employee are sales , 25% for
           | Gitlab. I would say they are not even competitors
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Disagree. Github's self-hosted product is trash compared to
           | Gitlab. Plus they were very late to the game when it came to
           | stuff like CI, package management, project tracking and a
           | whole suite of enterprise features. Github had (and still
           | has) a huge lead in public open-source development, but
           | that's it.
        
         | polote wrote:
         | If every investor was apologizing when a company he passed on
         | became successful they would not have any time to do investing
         | anymore.
         | 
         | For any criteria (open source or github as a competitor in that
         | case) you will find some company that became successful. Even
         | the worst one.
        
         | secondaryacct wrote:
         | Dont worry, as a corporate user, it's a nightmare: it wont
         | last.
        
           | systemvoltage wrote:
           | It's really bloated but it's gonna live and get better over
           | time. Gitlab feels super slow compared to GitHub but it also
           | has more features.
           | 
           | I'm personally extremely pro Source Hut but it's not ready
           | yet: https://sr.ht
        
         | taytus wrote:
         | >which was more of an outlier than a pattern
         | 
         | If you are looking to invest in patterns what makes you
         | special?
         | 
         | I thought the idea was to look for outliers.
        
           | jedberg wrote:
           | VCs are the most risk averse people you will meet. They
           | pretty much only look for patterns. That's why it's so hard
           | for minority/female founders -- because it doesn't fit their
           | pattern. I actually invest mostly in minority/female founders
           | for exactly this reason.
           | 
           | Also, I never said I was any good. :)
        
         | nodesocket wrote:
         | I'll echo a sentiment I also had but perhaps I was wrong. I
         | believed that users of GitLab used GitLab because they didn't
         | want to pay a premium (or pay at all) for GitHub; thus I viewed
         | it as a cheaper alternative in the same vein as buying a
         | Hyundai vs buying a Mercedes. I assumed only frugal
         | "developers" were using it, and surely any legit companies
         | would opt for the superior GitHub.
        
           | mr_cyborg wrote:
           | Interesting comparison with cars, I would think a Hyundai is
           | much more reliable and less expensive to maintain than a
           | Mercedes, and Hyundai is now being positioned as a more
           | premium brand than it once was.
           | 
           | On topic, GitLab is great at CI/CD and awesome for self-
           | hosting things.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | maxsilver wrote:
           | Just one user here, but I definitely _prefer_ GitLab over
           | GitHub.
           | 
           | Not because GitHub is bad in any particular way, I just like
           | the feature set and UI of GitLab better. Less of a "Hyundai
           | vs Mercedes" thing, and more of a "Ford vs Chevy" thing.
           | 
           | They're both decent and they both have approximately the same
           | level of "premium-ness". They're just feature-wise and
           | aesthetically slightly different in arbitrary ways. And some
           | people either do or don't vibe better with the one or the
           | other.
        
         | specialist wrote:
         | Any takeaway lessons for evaluating future FOSS startups? Like
         | maybe place higher weight on rate of adding new users?
        
           | jedberg wrote:
           | I've found that my bar for investing is the same no matter
           | what kind of company it is -- how quickly can they sell me on
           | investing? As much as us engineers hate to admit it, the most
           | important skill for a founder is the ability to sell. Besides
           | the obvious of having to sell to customers, they also have to
           | sell their vision to VCs, sell their company to potential
           | employees, sell their vision to journalists and potential
           | customers, etc.
           | 
           | If I'm not convinced to invest after one meeting, I usually
           | don't invest. On the other hand, if I'm convinced after five
           | minutes, I'm usually asking where to send the wire by the end
           | of the meeting.
           | 
           | Armory is a good example of an open source/open core company
           | I _did_ invest in. They had me convinced in just a few
           | minutes. They had an answer for every one of my objections
           | and made me feel like I 'd be missing out if I didn't invest.
           | And so far they're doing really well and it's one of my best
           | investments to date.
        
             | ignoramous wrote:
             | > _...how quickly can they sell me on investing? As much as
             | us engineers hate to admit it, the most important skill for
             | a founder is the ability to sell. Besides the obvious of
             | having to sell to customers, they also have to sell their
             | vision to VCs, sell their company to potential employees,
             | sell their vision to journalists and potential customers,
             | etc._
             | 
             | As cynical and hollow as it sounds, pretty sure this advice
             | is consistent with what I have heard in multiple videos and
             | blogs from YC.
             | 
             | See also: "create investor fomo", https://html.duckduckgo.c
             | om/html/search?q=create%20fomo%20in...
        
             | moneywoes wrote:
             | What do you find is the "best way to sell"?
        
               | jedberg wrote:
               | Have an answer to every objection. First figure out all
               | the ways you would object and make sure you have an
               | answer, then note down any objections you don't have an
               | answer to during your process and make sure you have a
               | good answer next time.
               | 
               | And if you're selling a product, make sure you know your
               | competitors well because a lot of objections will be in
               | the form of "but competitor X does this, how do you solve
               | that problem?" and "what do you do that X doesn't do?".
               | So you better know X really well because the person
               | you're talking to already does and will know if you're
               | making stuff up.
        
         | altdataseller wrote:
         | Is Gitlab 100% open source?
        
           | mr_tristan wrote:
           | It's really "open core", but they use one code base, so
           | commercial-licensed code is "available" but not under an open
           | source license.
           | 
           | https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/marketing/strategic-
           | market...
           | 
           | NOTE: I'm not associated with GitLab at all I just found the
           | topic interesting. I don't know of many other projects that
           | actually do things this way, with all the commercial licensed
           | code mixed in with the open source code.
           | 
           | This was kind of an interesting speech I found searching
           | around: https://www.heavybit.com/library/video/commercial-
           | open-sourc...
        
           | pankajdoharey wrote:
           | Opensource isnt such a problem the software should be great,
           | i fail to see how Gitlab is better than Github.
        
             | dragontamer wrote:
             | Github is a website while Gitlab is software.
        
               | robinhood wrote:
               | Github is actually a web application, like Gitlab.
        
               | dragontamer wrote:
               | Can you download Github and host a private Github
               | instance? No? Then its web-only. Like Google Docs is web-
               | only, while MS Word is offline.
               | 
               | Gitlab is hostable software. You can buy and host Gitlab
               | on your own servers, in private. That makes it a
               | fundamentally different market than Github.
        
               | Kranar wrote:
               | >Can you download Github and host a private Github
               | instance?
               | 
               | Yes, that's what Github Enterprise Server is:
               | 
               | https://docs.github.com/en/enterprise-
               | server@3.2/admin/overv...
        
               | bityard wrote:
               | Gitlab is both actually
        
             | shaan7 wrote:
             | I work for two clients (one of them is a huge German
             | company) as a consultant who are both using GitLab simply
             | because they can host it on their infrastructure. Makes it
             | easier for them to satisfy internal security policies I
             | guess.
        
               | GoblinSlayer wrote:
               | What else would they use?
        
             | rnicholus wrote:
             | Gitlab always felt like a set of checkboxes to appease non-
             | technical managers. In my experience, most features are
             | half-baked. Even the code review/MR experience is
             | frustrating compared to GitHub. The UX for security scans
             | is _really_ rough.
        
               | chrisweekly wrote:
               | GitLab CI is world-class.
        
               | 210Donegal wrote:
               | What about the UX for security scans is rough?
        
               | nitrogen wrote:
               | GitLab's integrated CI came before GitHub actions and was
               | super helpful.
        
             | Mikeb85 wrote:
             | GitHub is Microsoft now.
             | 
             | Not going to lie, simply keeping my code away from MS is a
             | good enough use case.
        
               | robinhood wrote:
               | Microsoft is the largest open source organization in the
               | world today. What else do they need to do to gain some
               | kind of trust? I love what they do with Github since the
               | acquisition. VSCode is amazing. They've open source most
               | of their programming language. Github is free for open
               | source org and there are no limits to the CI usage.
               | 
               | Trusting Gitlab more than Github is naive at this point.
               | They are in the position of needing to generate as much
               | revenue as possible to satisfy their investors. Github is
               | not in this position anymore.
        
               | ekianjo wrote:
               | Largest open source organization based on what metrics ?
               | They havent open up any of their bread making products.
        
           | wizzwizz4 wrote:
           | It is not. They're better than _most_ - and I know that 's
           | not a high bar, but they clear it by a wide margin.
           | Nonetheless, their software is better described as "open
           | core".
        
           | pestaa wrote:
           | RedHat is not 100% open source either (although the
           | differences are important).
        
             | fredros wrote:
             | I'd say it's 99% open source. Do you have any significant
             | example of non open source red hat software ?
        
         | killerstorm wrote:
         | > My thought at the time was that no open source company had
         | ever been super successful except RedHat
         | 
         | Sun bought MySQL for 1 billion USD in 2008, does that not count
         | as successful?
         | 
         | Also, MongoDB, Elastic and many many others...
        
           | ZetaZero wrote:
           | MongoDB and Elastic are successful because they are locking
           | features behind a paid license. Does that make it a
           | successful open source company?
        
             | codetrotter wrote:
             | GitLab has features in the Enterprise edition that aren't
             | in the Community edition don't they?
        
               | djbusby wrote:
               | Correct.
        
             | strzibny wrote:
             | But GitLab is the same concept...
        
           | jedberg wrote:
           | I meant there were no successful public companies based on
           | open source except RedHat in 2015.
        
       | mindwok wrote:
       | I've used Gitlab constantly for many years, and they stand out to
       | me as a company that delivers new features at an astounding pace
       | and with a relatively high level of polish. I really don't know
       | how they do it. Congrats to the Gitlab team, your success is well
       | deserved!
        
       | marsven_422 wrote:
       | They need a lower price point for premium, all I want is enforced
       | reviews of merge request. But $19 _12_ 15 is to much for that
       | feature.
        
       | debacle wrote:
       | A paid user + big fan of gitlab. They exist in a strange valley
       | between github and Atlassian where usability has remained high
       | while also being featureful.
       | 
       | Their kanban is 10% more functional than Trello, which is all our
       | small team really needs, they give you everything and they don't
       | nickel and dime you.
       | 
       | The only feature I would like to see improved is their PR
       | process. Seems a bit buggy with remotely large changesets, and
       | the digest for the PR should provide a bit more context to
       | reviewees.
        
         | marceloabsousa wrote:
         | We've been building a new code review tool for the PR/MR
         | process. Check it out at https://reviewpad.com.
        
         | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
         | The only issue I had with GL is that they don't show the entire
         | diff if the changes/files are very large.
         | 
         | They may have fixed this since last year, but it was super,
         | super annoying to me at the time.
        
           | debacle wrote:
           | You can "expand" the diff, but sometimes that breaks the UI,
           | makes it unable to add comments, etc. That's probably the
           | reason they don't show large changesets by default.
        
           | 1270018080 wrote:
           | Their search functionality is also... non functioning.
           | Github's search is dramatically more powerful.
        
           | necovek wrote:
           | Nope, they still arbitrarily decide to "fold" big changes
           | (file with a large diff), causing me to miss entire files
           | when reviewing on occasion.
           | 
           | In all honesty, their pull request pages need a lot of UX
           | work: too much stuff going on on the overview pages, jumping
           | to unresolved threads does not work when they are in previous
           | commits...
           | 
           | There's also that merge train confusion where merge trains
           | get "cancelled" without an obvious explanation ("this was
           | cancelled because it is included in a new one" would do). In
           | a sense, I'd say that their UX is pretty bad, but the API is
           | not much better either (you can't fetch pipeline log files
           | with individual script timings that you see floating on the
           | right in the web UI). If anything, all of this only goes to
           | show that you don't need to be perfect to be good!
           | 
           | But I applaud the effort, mission and dedication they put up,
           | and especially their open core nature.
           | 
           | Congrats on the IPO and keep pushing forward.
        
         | dhritzkiv wrote:
         | Yes! Gitlab's offerings are great, and our team doesn't even
         | scratch the surface of what's possible with its feature set.
         | 
         | That said, MRs with over 1000 lines of changes are painful
         | sometimes impossible to review. Even small MRs feel clunky, due
         | to how many panels there are (yes, I know they're collapsible).
         | Because MRs are one of our most used features, it sometimes
         | makes me consider switching to GitHub for their much nicer PR
         | UX/UI.
        
           | Gepsens wrote:
           | I prefer to use Intellij now for reviews. How can people
           | review any kind of code in that PR web UI ? I mean I used to
           | do it but not anymore
        
             | marceloabsousa wrote:
             | Would be very curious about your thoughts on Reviewpad
             | (https://reviewpad.com). The interactions you have on the
             | IDE are very different than a tool that was specifically
             | made for code reviews.
        
             | nyanpasu64 wrote:
             | Do you review code in the code _editor_ , the git _diff_ ,
             | or some specialized full-PR/MR diff with integration with
             | online comments and discussions?
             | 
             | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/40217494/how-to-
             | review-a... says IntelliJ has GitHub-only specialized PR
             | review/commenting.
        
             | dhritzkiv wrote:
             | Yeah, I should really quit struggling with Gitlab's.
             | 
             | For really large MRs, I use Tower + Kaleidoscope to view
             | the changes. But then I can't easily leave a comment on a
             | line of code (a big part of the review process)
        
       | FabioFleitas wrote:
       | Gitlab's IPO would also mark the first ever 100% distributed
       | company to IPO. Wild!
        
         | pixelmonkey wrote:
         | Elastic (NYSE: ESTC) was pretty much a fully distributed team
         | upon IPO. They had offices, but they were more like "coworking
         | cafes", where folks who happened to be in the same geographic
         | area would meet up, or have social celebrations. At least,
         | that's my understanding, tracking the company since its early
         | days. On a recent podcast, Shay Banon described it as a fully
         | distributed team of 2,000+ folks.[1] They IPO'ed in 2018.[2]
         | 
         | [1]: https://pca.st/kvgw4iz9
         | 
         | [2]: https://twitter.com/kimchy/status/1048595935088009216
        
           | heytherewhat wrote:
           | > They had offices
           | 
           | And Gitlab doesn't.
        
       | bdcravens wrote:
       | What has really bothered me about Gitlab is that everytime Github
       | copies a feature, there's a testy blog post about "we did it
       | first!" when Gitlab as a business is a copy of Github.
        
         | gbear605 wrote:
         | And Github is a copy of Sourceforge, which is inevitably a copy
         | of someone else.
         | 
         | Source code hosting as a business isn't new, it just needs to
         | be executed well.
        
       | dQw4w9WgXcQ wrote:
       | Another big win for Joe Montana, but this time via Liquid 2
       | Ventures.
        
       | literallyWTF wrote:
       | Oh geez. This most likely means the frequency of their updates
       | will get even faster and their somewhat dubious quality will
       | plummet.
       | 
       | Who knows, maybe I'll be wrong and their auto devops pipelines
       | might actually get rid of kubernetes namespaces for branches that
       | don't exist! :0
        
       | smartbit wrote:
       | Dmitriy Zaporozhets is explicit mentioned in the blog and on the
       | photo. The S1 doesn't mention him
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28573867. Anyone know why
       | Dmitriy owns less than 5% of the outstanding shares of the Class
       | A or Class B common stock?
        
         | eganist wrote:
         | Dilution plus private stock sale or unequal share provisioning
         | among founders? Probably a handful of things, though not sure
         | if it has any bearing on Gitlab's success.
        
       | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
       | Ever since I found their company handbook online, I have been in
       | love with their process/culture and wanted to work for them. But
       | I don't write Ruby and they don't seem to need a lot of
       | DevOps/SysEng/SREs.
        
       | jandeboevrie wrote:
       | I worked with Sytse (as Sid used to be called) back in 2011/2012
       | in The Hague when he consulted at Digidentity, with Marin. Great
       | guy back then, used to run around in a lab coat, the GitLAB guy.
       | Wonderful to see what Gitlab has become, well done!
        
         | mcv wrote:
         | > Sytse (as Sid used to be called)
         | 
         | That explains a lot. I thought Sid was an unusual name for
         | someone with that surname. But it makes business sense to use
         | something more internationally pronounceable.
        
           | jandeboevrie wrote:
           | Fun fact on Dutch names, his wife Karen has the same
           | Sijbrandij, but not due to marriage, but due to them being
           | distant cousins, who found one another on the search function
           | of an early chat client, like ICQ, he once told us. So she
           | could actually call herself Karen Sijbrandij-Sijbrandij.
        
       | alangibson wrote:
       | Have any of the finance minded HN commenters decided if the $10B
       | valuation is justified? I'm usually pretty negative about high
       | valuations, but given their enterprise penetration, this one
       | seems almost reasonable.
        
         | gitfan86 wrote:
         | ORCL, MSFT, SalesForce and a few others would pay 10B+ to own
         | those relationships and control of the future of the product
        
           | johannes1234321 wrote:
           | If they were paying more than an IPO value they probably
           | would buy already ...
        
             | gitfan86 wrote:
             | Gitlab doesn't want to sell
        
               | johannes1234321 wrote:
               | GitLab Just (partially) sold.
               | 
               | However: If they don't want to (fully) sell basing the
               | price on a value someone else might eventually pay for a
               | (full) acquisition doesn't make much sense. (Unless you
               | assume they revise the decision, but then the argument
               | about not selling is moot again)
        
               | gitfan86 wrote:
               | Look at Facebook. Zuck has no interest in giving up full
               | control to someone else, but he does want to be a public
               | company.
        
               | johannes1234321 wrote:
               | Yes, since FB is a money printing machine producing lots
               | of revenue which is some argument forms one market value
               | for parts of a company.
               | 
               | The argument Here was "ORCL, MSFT, SalesForce and a few
               | others would pay 10B+" but those would pay those
               | valuations only for full control.
               | 
               | FB's market cap is around 900B$. Gaining full control
               | over FB would be valued a lot more.
        
         | czbond wrote:
         | Came to look for the same. I haven't found current or future
         | projections on revenue to hang something on.
        
         | nabla9 wrote:
         | Microsoft paid $7.5 billion for GitHub in 2018.
         | 
         | GitLab being ~$10B 4 year later seems like similar ballbark.
         | There is always the possibility of acquisition in the future.
         | 
         | (EDIT: had names reversed)
        
           | NineStarPoint wrote:
           | Microsoft only paying 7.5 billion for GitHub definitely makes
           | me less confident that GitLab is worth 10 billion.
           | 
           | Much as I personally prefer GitLab, GitHub had a bigger
           | customer base back then than GitLab has now. GitLab may be
           | gaining market share, but it's mostly eating Atlassian's
           | portion of the market and not GitHub's. It's plausible GitHub
           | undervalued themself in the sale to Microsoft of course, so a
           | careful look at the numbers is required to evaluate the
           | valuation, but the value comparison isn't a great sign to me.
           | 
           | Separately of course, GitLab might be in line with the
           | valuation of companies on the stock market in general which
           | have ballooned heavily in recent years. Whether that's a
           | bubble or permanent inflation in stock prices then becomes
           | the relevant question to answer, I suppose.
        
             | nemothekid wrote:
             | > _Microsoft only paying 7.5 billion for GitHub definitely
             | makes me less confident that GitLab is worth 10 billion._
             | 
             | It's worth considering that between 2018 and now, tech
             | valuations have _exploded_. MSFT is up 300%. QQQ is up
             | 100%. I doubt GitHub is valued anywhere near 7.5B today.
        
           | thefreeman wrote:
           | how many users did github have at the time vs gitlab now?
        
           | dewey wrote:
           | > Microsoft paid $7.5 billion for GitLab in 2018.
           | 
           | That's a bit of an alternate timeline.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | lmeyerov wrote:
         | As with GitHub, the bigger value is owning shift left
         | disruptions for enterprise and cloud sw+he services: security
         | scanning, backups, prod server hosting, ... .
         | 
         | It is hard to compete with AWS, and a lot easier if you own the
         | UI+APIs for how software teams do CI+CD: you become a default
         | preferred vendor for all IaaS/PaaS add-ins, and can proactively
         | recommend and even trial them well before any competitor. IBM,
         | Oracle, SalesForce, SAP, Alibaba, etc could all win big --
         | imagine if IBM bought GitLab instead of RedHat to fix their
         | data center strategy.
        
         | isthis129283 wrote:
         | First 6 months of this year Gitlab took in $108M in revenue,
         | and had $177M in expenses. Would you pay $10B to own a company
         | that loses $10M/month, with the hopes they will continue to
         | increase revenue in the future and become profitable?
        
           | mikeyouse wrote:
           | In the 6 months before their IPO - Square had net revenue of
           | $200 million and expenses of $260 million, also losing
           | $10M/month. Would you have paid $3 billion in 2015 to own
           | that business?
           | 
           | If you had you would've had a 30x return today... (current
           | market cap is ~$112 billion).
        
             | user5994461 wrote:
             | The large majority of the 30x return was over the past 2
             | years with the pandemic, which is not going to happen for
             | Gitlab.
             | 
             | God forbids if you bought square long ago and didn't hold
             | long enough, they had multiple years of ups and downs.
             | 
             | https://www.google.com/search?q=square+share
        
           | alangibson wrote:
           | Personally I'd buy an aircraft carrier if I had $10B.
           | Nevertheless, there are plenty of people willing to put it in
           | Gitlab or they wouldn't IPO. A better question might have
           | been: what's the bull argument for Gitlab?
        
             | IggleSniggle wrote:
             | The usage argument is: buy your own "self-hosted" cloud
             | offering, deployed over any combination of
             | AWS/Azure/GCP/onprem that you like.
             | 
             | The bull argument probably looks something like: replace
             | Microsoft Office 365 / Azure with an integrated "self-
             | hosted" solution, easily deployed to any commoditized
             | compute...handled by GitLab for paying customers,
             | assurances of "escape hatch" to DIY open-source when you
             | stop paying.
        
         | airstrike wrote:
         | Define "justified". For most purposes, the market looks at
         | valuation on a relative basis1.
         | 
         | Their S-1 says GitLab generated revenues of $152 million in FY
         | 2021 (ending Jan 31), up 87% from the year before2. For the
         | sake of argument, let's assume their growth rate slows down
         | "slightly" to 50%. That's ~$230 million projected for FY 2022
         | 
         | At $10 billion, that implies a forward revenue multiple of
         | ~43.5x, which does seem high--but it's not necessarily
         | "unjustified". I haven't read the S-1 and the market reaction
         | to the IPO has been quite positive so far. You'd need to know
         | the business and the market well to make your own individual
         | assessment of why it commands this premium multiple. Customers,
         | TAM, growth, churn, competition, etc.
         | 
         | ----------
         | 
         | 1. For better or worse, relative valuation is viewed as "more
         | defensible". If you're wrong, you can simply say, "well, that's
         | how the market was pricing it at the time" whereas if you are
         | wrong with your intrinsic valuation model (like a DCF), you
         | have no one to blame.
         | 
         | 2.
         | https://www.bamsec.com/filing/162828021018818/1?cik=1653482&...
        
           | user5994461 wrote:
           | How much of that revenue growth was driven by Gitlab more
           | than quadrupling their price in the last two years? ($4 to
           | $19 a month).
           | 
           | They can't pull that trick again.
        
         | buryat wrote:
         | they have massive losses
         | 
         | https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/0001653482/000162828...
        
       | maxpert wrote:
       | Congratulations to the team. It's rewarding to make it through,
       | but don't make the product shittier just because you are big now.
        
       | atonse wrote:
       | "Gitlab CEO here, getting rich and feeling proud" [1] ;-) -
       | congrats to the Sid, Dmitriy, and the rest of the Gitlab team.
       | Always appreciated your presence on HN.
       | 
       | We've been GitLab customers for 2-3 years now (what was
       | attractive was having "everything in one SaaS subscription") and
       | it's worked out quite well.
       | 
       | There's always papercuts for sure and the product could always
       | use more polish, but overall it has been nice to have most of our
       | dev processes under one umbrella.
       | 
       | Now when is Hashicorp going public? I've got my wallet ready for
       | that one.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
        
         | nabakin wrote:
         | When I click on your link to find the quote, it doesn't show
         | up. Strange. Or are you playing off of the joke?
        
           | atonse wrote:
           | That's strange.
           | 
           | Try looking for "gitlab CEO here" (with quotes) at the bottom
           | search on HN? (and pick Comments. they won't show up in
           | stories.)
        
       | elpakal wrote:
       | Congrats to the team and I'm very thankful that there are
       | alternatives to GitHub out there. Not that I don't like GitHub (I
       | do) or use GitHub (every day), but lately it seems like they are
       | sherlocking a whole lot of ideas from the OSS "marketplace" into
       | their main product. That kind of irks me.
       | 
       | If GitLab were able to add something like GitHub Actions into
       | their platform I would leave GH in a second.
        
         | dadrian wrote:
         | GitLab CI is basically GitHub Actions, except easier to use.
        
           | elpakal wrote:
           | yea I'm not talking about CI, mostly _all the other things_
           | Actions can do right now like label events, comment events,
           | all the events etc.
        
         | ericpauley wrote:
         | GitLab has a very mature CI/CD framework that in many ways
         | outshines Actions[1]. I use it regularly and definitely
         | recommend it.
         | 
         | [1] https://about.gitlab.com/devops-tools/github-vs-gitlab/ci-
         | mi...
        
         | snypox wrote:
         | Isn't GitLabs whole premise is the CI/CD?
        
         | gadders wrote:
         | For anyone else that needs it:
         | 
         | The phenomenon of Apple releasing a feature that supplants or
         | obviates third-party software is so well known that being
         | Sherlocked has become an accepted term used within the Mac and
         | iOS developer community.
        
       | bee_rider wrote:
       | Gitlab is definitely very neat. But I always worry when these
       | sorts of companies go to IPO. What is their financial situation
       | like? Are they currently able to become profitable without
       | drastically changing the deal with users?
        
         | megous wrote:
         | Well they're currently trying to test that hypothesis via A/B
         | tests:
         | 
         | https://forum.gitlab.com/t/cant-open-the-signin-page-it-keep...
        
         | rossmohax wrote:
         | They had $192M losses in 2021 and $152M revenue. So no, not
         | even remotely profitable, but it is common: Atlassian, Jira,
         | Datadog, PagerDuty, Snowflake, CloudFlare, Fastly all IPOed and
         | succeeded on the market without being profitable even once.
        
       | scottydelta wrote:
       | Gitlab is the only easy, reliable, and free docker registry
       | provider and I have been using them since more than a year. Happy
       | to see them succeed.
        
       | lnxg33k1 wrote:
       | I guess after GitHub and gitlab i will have to find an
       | alternative, so long and thanks for all the fish, I'm not really
       | sure why we need to pursue growth at all cost, a perpetual hunt
       | for currency on daily basis, of a number we will never be able to
       | spend
        
         | HatchedLake721 wrote:
         | Why?
        
       | jypepin wrote:
       | I used to work at Uber's Amsterdam office at a time where the
       | remote nature of the office (from SF HQ) was a struggle for some
       | teams because of strong dependencies on teams located at SF HQ.
       | 
       | Sid came to the office and talked to us about some strategies
       | Gitlab used for remote work, timezone differences etc.
       | 
       | Not only the talk was very helpful, Sid was an incredibly clear
       | communicator, calm and humble. He really seemed to be a great
       | leader and someone it must be nice working with.
        
         | Copenjin wrote:
         | For those who want to know more about Gitlab and its all remote
         | approach (a lot of posts):
         | https://about.gitlab.com/blog/tags.html#remote-work
         | 
         | And their handbook: https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/
        
           | e40 wrote:
           | We used this as a template the year before the pandemic to
           | get our mostly remote teams working well. Once the pandemic
           | hit, there were few issues we had to address.
           | 
           | I very much appreciate them making that public.
        
             | Copenjin wrote:
             | Yep, that wiki is amazing.
        
               | alohaandmahalo wrote:
               | Darren here from GitLab -- warms my heart to hear that
               | our remote guides are being used and making
               | lives/companies better. Thank you!
        
       | wyldfire wrote:
       | I recently wanted to try adding some diagrams to a markdown-
       | formatted README file in a Github Enterprise repo. I saw a few
       | solutions but they all seemed to require me to roll some kind of
       | service or automation to generate a raster image of the diagram
       | and reference that from the markdown. There's an outstanding
       | feature request for Github to integrate this kind of thing in
       | their markdown rendering. But it's been languishing for years. Of
       | course, Gitlab has had it for a while.
       | 
       | If Github's not careful, Gitlab will eat their lunch.
       | 
       | Gitlab should be careful not to make their product into "The
       | Homer" [1], though.
       | 
       | [1] https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/The_Homer
        
         | woodruffw wrote:
         | I agree with the general thrust of your comment (and I've been
         | happy to see that GitHub's feature development pick up over the
         | past few years), but I don't know if Markdown is the best
         | example: I've lost track of how many times I or someone else I
         | work with has written some Markdown, only to discover that it's
         | a GH or GL extension and that our deployed documentation (or
         | package index pages) don't render our hard work correctly.
        
         | vultour wrote:
         | GitLab has already turned into "The Homer". It has hundreds
         | (thousands?) of features, but if you stray away from the core
         | git functionality you'll very quickly realise they're pretty
         | bad.
         | 
         | I've always seen GitLab as a useful tool for smaller companies
         | where you can use it to replace several other applications
         | (e.g. JIRA, Jenkins, or wiki), but if your company already has
         | those established it all becomes somewhat useless.
        
           | exhaze wrote:
           | Have you read the GitLab S-1? They have great retention with
           | larger companies. Can you substantiate any of your claims?
           | (FYI I have no horse in this race, I evaluated GH vs GL
           | recently and decided to stay on GH for now)
        
             | adduc wrote:
             | From their S-1:
             | 
             | > We do not have an adequate history with our subscription
             | or pricing models to accurately predict the long-term rate
             | of customer subscription renewals or adoption, or the
             | impact these renewals and adoption will have on our
             | revenues or operating results.
             | 
             | For context, GitLab recently axed their lowest priced plan
             | and grandfathered in existing users at cheaper rates for
             | the next year. Their retention rate may drop once discounts
             | run out and the new pricing kicks in.
             | 
             | As to the parent's comment about "The Homer" and non-core
             | features being bad, I'd point to their CI autoscaling
             | solution as an example of being underdeveloped, over-
             | marketed, and suffering from technical debt. Their
             | autoscaler uses docker machine behind-the-scenes, which
             | hooks into various cloud providers to abstract away the act
             | of spinning up new VMs. It works reasonably well, but
             | Docker has archived the repository and no longer supports
             | the software. GitLab forked the repository and maintains it
             | for critical fixes, but is not willing to develop or accept
             | new features. It has been known to break against new
             | versions of Docker, does not handle concurrency very well
             | in new environments, and does not allow [1] executing
             | multiple concurrent jobs within spun up VMs, despite
             | marketing that it can [2].
             | 
             | While the autoscaler does work, it's limitations and quirks
             | reduces it's utility and cost-savings significantly within
             | smaller organizations. The technical debt leaves me
             | doubting any improvements will come within the next few
             | years as they try to architect a new solution to replace
             | the existing one.
             | 
             | I have no idea how GitLab compares in other areas, but
             | within CI autoscaling it seems they're stuck with a cliff
             | to climb down before they can move forward again.
             | 
             | [1]: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-
             | runner/-/issues/2787#no...
             | 
             | [2]: https://about.gitlab.com/blog/2017/11/23/autoscale-ci-
             | runner...
        
               | rossmohax wrote:
               | CI is moving in Kubernetes everywhere I know. Builtin
               | kubernetes pod autoscaler can add capacity based on job
               | queue length metric, so no need for docker machine
               | anymore.
        
         | the-dude wrote:
         | I think it is fair to say Gitlab is already eating Github's
         | lunch. For some time.
        
           | brightball wrote:
           | Is it?
        
           | nerdponx wrote:
           | Are they? What's the Gitlab market share?
           | 
           | Also, it sounds to me like Github is leaving the old lunch of
           | "Git hosting + issue tracking" on the table, and moving on to
           | being a kind of web-based all-in-one full-service
           | collaboration/dev platform with a social network built in. So
           | even if Gitlab picks up some single-digit-percentage market
           | share, that's not what Github cares about anyway.
        
             | what_is_orcas wrote:
             | > a kind of web-based all-in-one full-service
             | collaboration/dev platform with a social network built in.
             | 
             | Why would I want a social network built into my version
             | control & ci/cd pipeline (I assume you're referring to the
             | "stars" feature, and not about issue reporting).
             | 
             | Maybe I'm just a curmudgeon, but I'm sort of sick of
             | everything becoming a social network. I neither have nor do
             | I want internet clout, and all social networks feel like
             | they're trying to force me into "keeping up with the
             | Jones'" in whatever way they're relevant.
        
               | nerdponx wrote:
               | Github has been a social network for years. You can
               | follow users and "star" repositories.
               | 
               | It has its merits for search and discovery.
        
               | johannes1234321 wrote:
               | In OpenSource space there is a small value: If I get a
               | contribution from a stranger and I see they are respected
               | contributor to trustworthy other organisations I can
               | derive some trust from that. (Doesn't mean handing out
               | access and blindly merging, but helps to judge)
               | 
               | Also for people looking for jobs it can be a tool for
               | self promotion.
        
             | pjot wrote:
             | Especially considering the coupling of GitHub with vscode
        
       | airstrike wrote:
       | Surprised they didn't go for the "GIT" ticker
        
       | dgudkov wrote:
       | Dmitriy Zaporozhets (co-founder) was Gitlab's CTO until 2018 and
       | now his LinkedIn profile says "Engineering fellow at Gitlab".
       | What happened to him?
        
       | coolhand1 wrote:
       | It's pretty incredible what Gitlab has been able to accomplish
       | considering the market space they're in.
        
       | m0zg wrote:
       | Kudos to GitLab for boldly and successfully going where (almost)
       | no company has gone before - to having a worldwide, distributed
       | workforce. Truly the way of the future, and (IMO) better quality
       | of life for employees once they get used to working remote and
       | stop fighting it. I've been working primarily remote for the past
       | 3 years, and my QOL has never been better. No commute, working
       | hours can be when I feel productive (which tends to be in the
       | evening), and if I'm tired nobody will look at me funny if I take
       | a nap, except maybe my cat.
       | 
       | Most importantly, this forces folks into asynchronous and written
       | communication, which both makes my work less interrupt driven,
       | and reduces reliance on institutional knowledge. I think we're
       | yet to fully realize the benefits of this brave new world. And
       | yes, I'm aware that some folks need water cooler conversations. I
       | don't though.
       | 
       | Sid, if you're reading this, do please write a book on how you
       | did it, so others could replicate your success in terms of
       | geographic distribution. Knowing the legal / accounting / tax
       | pitfalls, and how to avoid getting screwed when hiring abroad
       | would be pretty invaluable to others.
        
       | sdflhasjd wrote:
       | I really like Gitlab, and I wanted to move my team onto their
       | hosted offering, but earlier this year they changed the pricing
       | so abruptly and drastically that it just killed it as an option.
       | 
       | It just feels like it does too much, and unless you want to
       | commit to having everyone using it for _everything_ the pricing
       | doesn't seem to make sense.
        
         | gorkish wrote:
         | The pricing model with GitLab is really unfortunate for certain
         | types of companies. For our developers who really do most
         | everything in Gitlab, it's great, but buying the same licenses
         | for literally anyone else who might need to peek in there a
         | couple of times a month? Hell naw.
         | 
         | Our spend would be much higher (probably 3-4x) if they allowed
         | some type of reasonable mix of license levels.
        
           | rossmohax wrote:
           | Thats is what sales team is for. Talk to them, explain you
           | usecase and set of features you are looking to use, they'll
           | give you a discount based on that. If I remember correctly we
           | managed to get a license for all users who ever need to
           | login, but for the price of number of core active users.
        
         | xtracto wrote:
         | Same thing happened to me at a previous company: I had just
         | migrated from Github to Gitlab and was planning on getting on
         | the paid plan, when they suddenly did the price bump. Worse of
         | all is that it is not possible to pay monthly (Github allows
         | this). So we got back to Github.
        
       | mooreds wrote:
       | I haven't used gitlab much, but I was shocked to hear GitHub's
       | CTO (at the time of the interview, he has moved on since) state
       | that GitHub didn't consider them a competitor.
       | 
       | "I do think that people still, to this day, think of GitLab as
       | one of our main competitors, and I never have ever saw GitLab as
       | a competitor."
       | 
       | https://www.lastweekinaws.com/podcast/screaming-in-the-cloud...
       | 
       | Anyone have thoughts on that? Or pointers to more reading?
        
         | mullingitover wrote:
         | Github should see them as competitors, because Gitlab has
         | definitely taken business from them.
         | 
         | Back in 2014 I started at a company that was still using a
         | hand-rolled git server. They tried out Github enterprise but
         | were unsatisfied with GH's lack of LDAP integration, so they
         | were going to continue to frankenstein their in-house git
         | server. I pitched them Gitlab instead, which did pretty much
         | everything GH enterprise was doing, _plus_ LDAP integration,
         | _plus_ was a fraction of the price. They were sold, I migrated
         | the company to Gitlab, and continued to be impressed as Gitlab
         | ran laps around Github on features.
        
         | reducesuffering wrote:
         | As Peter Thiel repeatedly puts in Zero to One:
         | 
         | Monopolists love to talk about have they have competitors and
         | act like they're in competition.
         | 
         | Competitors love to downplay that they have any competitors at
         | all and try to upsell their business like they're monopolists.
        
         | erik_landerholm wrote:
         | While anecdotal, we see a lot of development environments for a
         | lot of companies and the amount using github vs gitlab is like
         | 5 or 6x to 1. So, in that sense I get what the CTO of github is
         | saying.
        
         | pid-1 wrote:
         | GitHub has stronger 'social' features and it's better for
         | people who want to connect to other devs or build portfolios.
         | 
         | GitLab is years ahead of GitHub for certain stuff (e.g. CI/CD)
         | and IMO it has a better commercial offering for business.
         | 
         | I use GitHub as my portfolio profile for free and GitLab in my
         | $JOB.
         | 
         | That's my opinion tho, I'm just a person who uses both.
        
           | pjot wrote:
           | In an interview I had with GL the interviewer mentioned
           | "people use GH for open source work, and GL for closed".
        
             | la_fayette wrote:
             | Thats somehow funny, as GH is closed source and GL is open
             | source...
        
               | 10000truths wrote:
               | Makes perfect sense to me. Because GL is open source, it
               | can be easily self hosted, which is great for data
               | residency compliance, or specialized security needs.
        
               | devoutsalsa wrote:
               | Self hosting is never easy. If you nerf the GitLab
               | database by doing something unsupported or because of a
               | bug, good luck with that.
               | 
               | Source: an employer of mine nerfed the GitLab database
               | and support to fix it was not an option, so we had to
               | migrate to their cloud offering.
        
               | __turbobrew__ wrote:
               | The gitlab omnibus installation has built in support for
               | backups. Literally just run a single command to create a
               | backup on a network share.
               | 
               | Not having backups for gitlab on prem is just lazy system
               | administration.
        
               | mritzmann wrote:
               | Self hosting GitLab = Run 1 single Docker Container. Very
               | easy.
        
               | polskibus wrote:
               | It's mostly a matter of backups. Only pick self hosted if
               | you can back it up reliably every night.
        
           | skeeter2020 wrote:
           | Remember that GitHub is not MS's enterprise product in this
           | space. When they acquired GH everyone waited for "the merge"
           | and I think they've been really smart to (at least) appear to
           | be hands off. I can happily use GH for my stuff while cursing
           | Azure DevOps for work without going crazy.
        
           | whymarrh wrote:
           | Yeah they're similar feature-wise but the communities that
           | exists on GitHub vs. GitLab aren't remotely comparable.
        
           | vultour wrote:
           | GitHub's CI pipelines are behind GitLab? My lord, here I was
           | thinking about moving to GitHub Enterprise when our
           | subscription expires because everything in GitLab feels like
           | an unfinished weekend project. Seems like nobody can get
           | anywhere near the functionality of Jenkins.
        
             | cyberpunk wrote:
             | Seriously, they're miles behind. It doesn't even really
             | support Kubernetes, you have to have long running 'runner'
             | servers ala Jenkins and you need to have all your build
             | tools installed on those. It's miserable, fragile and I've
             | dearly, dearly missed gitlab CI the last few times I've had
             | to go anywhere near actions.
        
               | easton wrote:
               | It's probably because Actions is a fork of Azure
               | Pipelines, which was originally designed to coordinate
               | runners on Windows (where containers aren't nearly as
               | flexible or compatible as they are on Linux). Microsoft
               | came up with some fancy internal magic to have hot pools
               | of ephemeral VMs ready to assign in seconds, which nobody
               | outside can really replicate (I don't think), and then
               | everyone sits in sadness while they try to debug why
               | their tests run fine on "runner-1" but not on "runner-2".
        
             | pid-1 wrote:
             | I agree GitLab's CI has many edge cases. More importantly,
             | it feels like they stopped making it better to focus on
             | other stuff.
             | 
             | That said, GH actions is really new and full of imitations
             | / weird stuff as well. I still think GL offers more bang
             | for the buck in 2021.
             | 
             | Another option is using something external like Drone CI,
             | Circle CI, etc... Some of those look nice, but I've never
             | tested myself.
        
             | mooreds wrote:
             | > Seems like nobody can get anywhere near the functionality
             | of Jenkins.
             | 
             | I've heard Jenkins is a nightmare to administer (not sure
             | about the new versions). Seems like an opportunity: the
             | power of Jenkins with modern sensibility.
        
               | specialist wrote:
               | Jenkins (and the like) are build script obfuscation
               | frameworks.
        
               | cyberpunk wrote:
               | Jenkins is a nightmare because everyone decided to spend
               | months customising it with groovy and it became overly
               | specific to your team/dept. The servers themselves are
               | quite simple (single .jar, etc). These days we have
               | containers, and it's made CI a much better thing.
        
               | mikepurvis wrote:
               | I agree with this. The quality of your Jenkins experience
               | will be pretty much inversely proportional to how much
               | groovy script is in your Jenkinsfiles.
               | 
               | Every new permutation of parameters is a new chance for
               | something to go wrong, and there's basically no sane way
               | to unit test or validate any of your "helper" functions,
               | so they're all write-once-change-never.
               | 
               | Which is not necessarily a problem inherent in Jenkins--
               | Jenkins just gives you more than enough rope to hang
               | yourself. GitLab CI can get silly too, but culturally it
               | inherits from the much simpler Travis model, where you're
               | basically expected to just be wrapping some other build
               | tool (eg, tox from the Python world) rather than rolling
               | the whole thing yourself.
        
               | outworlder wrote:
               | Groovy is arguably the wrong language choice, even if it
               | worked fine in other aspects. The string handling
               | situation alone is crazy, which is compounded if you are
               | using it with bash (which has its own crazy ideas about
               | string escaping). That's a not too uncommon scenario.
               | 
               | You end up with this:
               | 
               | https://gist.github.com/Faheetah/e11bd0315c34ed32e681616e
               | 412...
        
               | outworlder wrote:
               | > Jenkins is a nightmare because everyone decided to
               | spend months customising it with groovy and it became
               | overly specific to your team/dept
               | 
               | Yes. One thousand times this.
               | 
               | If you are running simple scripts it's fine. If you are
               | using the declarative pipeline, it's fine. The moment you
               | start adding Groovy you'll be down a path that is filled
               | with sadness and anger. Mind you, even the folks behind
               | Jenkins will advise you not to use any complex Groovy
               | scripts(including for performance reasons - you can
               | easily overwork the jenkins master).
               | 
               | I've been focusing on Concourse because it forces the
               | usage of containers for everything. You don't have to
               | care about what's installed in the worker node, you just
               | use a container that has the stuff you want. Simple
               | inputs and outputs.
               | 
               | You _can_ do the same sort of thing with Jenkins (but be
               | aware of all the bugs still open regarding containers).
               | But Jenkins doesn't force you to do anything, nor it
               | gives you an easy and out of the box solution to string
               | containers together. Left unchecked, you have your
               | reproducible builds running in completely unreproduceable
               | magical build machines - that noone really understands
               | how it all works.
               | 
               | Did a migration of a few hundreds of pipelines from one
               | server to another and it exposed a lot of dependencies we
               | didn't know we had. Plugins, jars, packages installed in
               | build machines, you name it.
               | 
               | If you must use Jenkins, please try to avoid Groovy to
               | the max, write anything that's non-trivial as an
               | executable (even if it is a bash script) and call it from
               | the main pipeline. Use containers if you can to avoid
               | build machine dependencies. Try to use declarative
               | pipelines too unless your jobs are very simple, and avoid
               | the 'script' blocks. Do not use the scripting pipeline to
               | avoid inviting groovy to your home.
               | 
               | You can thank me in a couple of years.
        
               | kerblang wrote:
               | Just to contradict the complaining about groovy scripts:
               | I reduced something like 100 jobs to 2 using groovy in
               | jenkins, and it has been a godsend. I'm not having any
               | problems with it.
               | 
               | Mind you, the Groovy stuff was implemented as an
               | afterthought, and if you aren't handy with Groovy (I am)
               | it can be challenging to learn. But compared to the
               | horrible GUI-driven alternative, it was a no-brainer in
               | the end.
               | 
               | Really, the more you're doing CI, the more you want
               | scripts - doesn't have to be Groovy. I'd honestly be
               | perfectly fine just doing things with a bash shell on a
               | vanilla linux install. I only use Jenkins because my team
               | insists on it, for what? So we can put a web UI in front
               | of CI. I'd even tend to agree that with supply-chain
               | attacks being what they are, and jenkins being a never-
               | ending fountain of security patches, putting a web UI in
               | front of CI isn't worth it.
               | 
               | But at least the groovy part makes life bearable.
        
             | wmfiv wrote:
             | You're looking for TeamCity,
             | https://www.jetbrains.com/teamcity/.
        
             | secondaryacct wrote:
             | And jenkins is centuries behind Teamcity.
             | 
             | My company extracted us from github+teamcity paradise to
             | force fit us to gitlab, it's not going well. Try both and
             | for real, build a real project pipeline and see if that
             | works for your dev before moving to either.
        
               | rossmohax wrote:
               | I never worked with Teamcity, but created a fairly
               | complicated Gitlab CI pipelines. What do you miss in
               | Gitlab CI?
        
             | skofgar wrote:
             | And here I am planning on replacing Jenkins with GitLab
             | CI.. do you really think Jenkins is better? Do you have any
             | examples or thoughts you can share?
        
               | cyberpunk wrote:
               | Your plan is solid (source: building ci stuff for >10
               | years). I wouldn't really suggest much else, although
               | argo is getting pretty good if you're deploying to k8s,
               | I'd still keep gitlab around for creating your images.
        
               | orf wrote:
               | We did a talk on it, happy to answer any questions. It's
               | definitely worth it.
               | 
               | A lot of our Jenkins issues came down to "we are not very
               | good at managing Jenkins", but even if we where the
               | massive jump in productivity, flexibility and team
               | independence we saw after rolling it out makes me believe
               | it's just better.
               | 
               | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k83hTlb9pMc
        
             | swozey wrote:
             | Github makes you do a ton of goofy side work to get simple
             | things you'll expect in Gitlab/etc to work. Want to check
             | out multiple repos? You'll need someone with org admin to
             | create a service account and to manually pull each repo in
             | a CI step with that service accounts token. This means tons
             | of people are using their own PATs to get around "who is
             | the github org admin?" sort of stuff.
             | 
             | I could go on and on, Github Actions are horrid compared to
             | Gitlab. I wish, wish wish I could go back but I don't have
             | that power here. Github doesn't have scoped issues like
             | Gitlab, the issue board is so lacking, "projects" is stale
             | and featureless so many things.
             | 
             | But I AM the one who deals with the aftermath. I've spent
             | days fixing one simple github action and I have plenty I
             | don't even wind up deploying they're so problematic.
        
               | rossmohax wrote:
               | No idea why you've been downvoted. Gitlab CI is
               | lightyears ahead of Github Actions, it's a fact.
        
               | swozey wrote:
               | I came the opposite direction from most I think, I
               | started with Gitlab and k8s back in 2015 and I just wound
               | up in a Github Codepipeline workflow. Unique experience.
        
         | reayn wrote:
         | I think the CTO's reasoning comes from that while GitLab is
         | competitive in terms of usage and features (actually offering a
         | more complete CI experience imo), it's influence is still
         | relatively miniscule in comparison to GitHub.
         | 
         | I wouldn't be surprised if you tried asking random people in
         | public or in a university whether they know GitHub or GitLab
         | and came to the conclusion that GitLab basically does not exist
         | for many people.
         | 
         | Especially for newer programmers, the vast majority
         | tutorials/educational courses and whatnot probably don't even
         | mention any alternatives to GitHub, much less an explicit
         | reference to GitLab.
         | 
         | I say we just give it time, GitLab as a company seems like a
         | way more inviting environment to me and if they keep up the
         | good work GitHub may have to start acknowledging them more.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | They are similar products but target different market segments.
         | Github wants public open-source projects, Gitlab wants large
         | enterprises.
        
         | 41209 wrote:
         | In the same way the Nintendo Switch and Xbox Series X aren't
         | competitors.
         | 
         | Many hard core gamers will have both. My Switch is for Smash
         | Bros and the Advance Wars reboot. Advance Wars was one of my
         | favorite games as a kid, and I'll pay 300$ for a machine just
         | to play it.
         | 
         | The Series X also plays games, but it's a completely different
         | experience. No one expects Switch quirkiness on an Xbox, and no
         | one expects 4K gaming on a Switch.
         | 
         | GitHub is for your public portfolio. Gitlab is for getting
         | stuff done once your GitHub portfolio lands you a decent job.
         | 
         | GitHub is synonymous with programmer portfolio, but it's CI/CD
         | system is rather primitive.
        
           | halfmatthalfcat wrote:
           | Actions are close If not better than Gitlab's CI. I moved
           | from Gitlab to GitHub Actions because they offer OSX runners
           | too, game changer.
        
             | 41209 wrote:
             | Are you using enterprise Gitlab?
             | 
             | I don't think Gitlab is a serious player outside of
             | enterprise clients. But that's where the money is.
        
               | skeeter2020 wrote:
               | This is also where MS pushes Azure DevOps because it is
               | inline with their subscription approach for Enterprise
               | Office, Project Management and DevOps. It is really easy
               | for a company that already pays for Office 365 to add on
               | Azure DevOps. It's a lot less easy for the teams to adopt
               | it, but we all know you sell to the front office, not the
               | back.
        
               | 41209 wrote:
               | Azure assumes you aren't already using AWS.
               | 
               | You can only sell so much to the front office, if it's
               | significantly harder to get things working on Azure, new
               | features are going to ship later if they do at all.
        
               | maineldc wrote:
               | I think the grandparent is referring to Azure DevOps
               | which is a Git / Issues product like Github and Gitlab,
               | not Azure Cloud. Azure DevOps is "fine" though I feel
               | like MS is pushing Github and will deprecate DevOps at
               | some point in the coming years.
        
               | jjeaff wrote:
               | Seems pretty serious to me. I was running my entire CI/CD
               | process with gitlab.com and deploying to k8s clusters
               | before GitHub Actions were even launched.
        
               | bastardoperator wrote:
               | I don't think it's a serious player at enterprises
               | either. MSFT is giving away GitHub Enterprise to sell
               | Azure and Visual Studio licenses coupled with other
               | perks. GitLab can't compete on that level and they lose
               | to GitHub/MSFT on a fairly regular basis.
        
             | iechoz6H wrote:
             | gitlab-runners are also installable on OSX (MacOS)[1]
             | 
             | 1. https://docs.gitlab.com/runner/install/osx.html
        
               | halfmatthalfcat wrote:
               | Yes, if you have OSX boxes available or leverage things
               | like MacStadium but Github allows you to leverage their
               | MacMini farm.
        
         | ksec wrote:
         | I am probably wrong in this.
         | 
         | I do think they are in a different market though. In that
         | despite there is a Github Enterprise Product, the self host
         | market shares are going to GitLab for one reason or another.
         | i.e I would not be surprised if GitLab is actually winning in
         | Enterprise / Big Spending Client self hosting Market.
         | 
         | For Github, it seems most of its strength is in their SaaS,
         | contractors and SME which trends towards this solution. Your
         | personal contribution to Open Source as well as profile /
         | portfolio would also live on Github like on a Social Network.
         | 
         | And I can see both Github and Gitlab continue to evolve their
         | strength for at least another 5 years. Generally speaking I
         | dont see how Gitlab could ever compete with Github on SaaS
         | given the advantage M$ has with Azure and DataCenter
         | infrastructure as well as social reach. While Github wont have
         | an easy path to evolve into something that compete directly
         | with GibLab on self hosting solution and their trend is to move
         | towards Azure Cloud solution offering to further gain synergy
         | with other Microsoft Enterprise products.
         | 
         | I do wish Gitlab put _lots and lots_ of work into performance
         | though. As in performance improvement measured in order of
         | magnitude, not small percentages.
        
       | tombert wrote:
       | I remember in 2014, a coworker of mine talked me into creating a
       | Gitlab account, claiming "it's basically just Github, but you get
       | free private repos".
       | 
       | I liked it, used it occasionally, but didn't care much about it
       | until Github was purchased by Microsoft. I didn't have a problem
       | with Microsoft buying Github per say, but it made me realize that
       | Github _could_ be bought, and it wasn 't some kind of glorified
       | charity. I don't think MS has done a bad job with Github at all,
       | but the very fact that the biggest home of open source itself
       | isn't open source made me uneasy. On the day the MS buyout was
       | announced, I moved all my Github repos to Gitlab.
       | 
       | Gitlab, while still a for-profit company, at least believed in
       | open source enough to release the source code for their core
       | product into the wild, and have proven that they can be
       | successful doing it. I'm extremely happy that they've managed to
       | create a pretty outstanding project that I am happy to use, and I
       | just bought three shares to prove my dedication to it.
        
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