[HN Gopher] Missouri Governor Vows to Prosecute St. Louis Post-D...
___________________________________________________________________
Missouri Governor Vows to Prosecute St. Louis Post-Dispatch for
Reporting
Author : picture
Score : 444 points
Date : 2021-10-14 17:50 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (krebsonsecurity.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (krebsonsecurity.com)
| justinzollars wrote:
| flagged as duplicate @dang
| giaour wrote:
| > there was no option to decode Social Security numbers for all
| educators in the system all at once
|
| Sure, but this was an application where you could search for any
| licensed educator and get their social security number in the
| response. This is about as bad a PII leak as can happen to a
| state government.
| YeBanKo wrote:
| They gave notice and waited until the offending pages were taken
| down. The article does not specify what the original html looked
| like, it could be a simple artifact from testing, when someone
| dumped the entire object into a template for debugging or maybe
| they actually were using this as a sort of a data field and then
| used it, for example, in a js call call to served.
|
| But the response from the AG shows they have no idea how internet
| works: "They had no authorization to convert or decode, so this
| was clearly a hack."
|
| Bigger questions: Who developed the system? Was it a contractor
| or in-house? If it was a contractor, are they gonna lose
| government contracts? Because, it sounds like they should. If it
| was in-house, are they gonna get training or some procedure in
| place to audit things going forward?
| rndmind wrote:
| This type of response by a high level public official is not
| excusable in 2021, maybe in 2005 or 2010, but it's 2021 now.
| snicker7 wrote:
| Apparently, the SSNs were all embedded directly in the HTML file.
| Like ... what?
| Bluecobra wrote:
| When I was a student at DeVry University (a national for-profit
| college with 40 campuses) your SSN was your student ID. This
| wasn't corrected until 2002 or 2003. :(
| xxpor wrote:
| This was common at many schools.
| tmm wrote:
| My high school rolled out an ID system in 1998 using SSNs
| printed on every ID (staff and students). About a week
| later, they realized this was a bad idea and reissued 1000+
| IDs without the SSN.
|
| I still don't know what the point of the ID cards was. They
| were just laminated paper, no RFID, magstripe, or barcode
| to open doors or to buy things from the cafeteria or school
| store. You didn't need it to check out books from the
| library and no one ever asked to see it. And we got a new
| one every year.
|
| I guess some vendor convinced the school that they needed
| ID cards and so they got them.
| qorrect wrote:
| Irving Campus ? I was there for those years.
| nostrademons wrote:
| Your SSN was your driver's license number in 29 states until
| 2004, when Bush outlawed the practice.
|
| Many, many institutions in the USA are built on it being a
| high-trust society. Now that it's falling into a low-trust
| state, we can expect those institutions to fail, and perhaps
| the state to as well.
| not2b wrote:
| Kind of a nitpick, but presidents don't outlaw things. Laws
| passed by Congress do that, and you're right, it was in
| 2004. Bush signed the law, but it passed by a huge
| majority.
|
| https://www.ssa.gov/legislation/legis_bulletin_010705.html
| nostrademons wrote:
| I'd initially phrased it "Bush signed a bill that
| outlawed...", which is much more correct, but is also an
| awkward sentence construction to read. Figured people
| would understand what I meant.
|
| ...this is also an apropos discussion for this topic,
| where the Missouri governor is framing this discussion in
| a way that's technically false but is going to score
| points with his constituents.
| Infernal wrote:
| > Many, many institutions in the USA are built on it being
| a high-trust society. Now that it's falling into a low-
| trust state, we can expect those institutions to fail, and
| perhaps the state to as well.
|
| Not enough people understand this, but I'm encouraged
| whenever I hear from those who do.
| jkepler wrote:
| This raises the question of how we start planning now to
| build more appropriate institutions to avoid societal
| failure.
| handrous wrote:
| They weren't supposed to be used as any kind of important,
| general ID number. It took various governments and
| institutions a long time to wake up to the reality that,
| because we _really, really_ need such an ID and the
| government has displayed no intention of ever creating one,
| social security numbers had been forced into the role by
| necessity.
| alexjplant wrote:
| If they were using a server-side rendering framework then what
| probably happened is that they used HTML comments instead of
| template engine comments to "remove" the SSN <td />s without
| understanding the ramifications.
| plainnoodles wrote:
| </tr><!--- {{ str(row) }} --->
|
| I don't find it TOO much of a stretch....
|
| (I don't know what it actually looked like in the html, just
| saying I could see it happening pretty easily)
| tomrod wrote:
| Dupe
|
| Seriously though, it deserves to be said again. The website
| operators are negligent, IMO.
| diegorbaquero wrote:
| _Missouri Gov. Mike Parson (R) said fixing the flaw could cost
| the state $50 million_
|
| Talk about waste of resources.
| newsbinator wrote:
| I mean it wouldn't be a weekend fix because it'll have to
| involve an audit of all existing systems to identify where else
| similar tomfoolery occurred.
|
| But 50 million is a high estimate.
| nerdawson wrote:
| 30 minutes removing a piece of output: $100
|
| Knowing where sed output is generated: $49.9999M
| nofinator wrote:
| > Knowing where sed output is generated
|
| Is the use of "sed" intentional or a typo? Either way, I
| love it.
| a785236 wrote:
| A minor but important correction. Krebs wrote that the Gov
| claimed that "fixing the flaw could cost the state $50
| million." That's not quite right. In the press conference
| linked in Kreb's post, the Governor actually claims that the
| "incident alone may cost Missouri taxpayers up to $50 million."
| I'd guess this number includes an estimate for the legal cost
| of dealing with the data breach plus any statutory penalties
| the state might incur (plus a grossly inflated price for fixing
| the bug).
| tinco wrote:
| It's a disgrace the agency who produced this website is not
| liable for this substandard quality.
|
| How crazy is it that code like this is deployed to production
| and then the customer has to pay 50 million to get it up to
| standards? The senator should be ashamed they are being scammed
| like this.
| willcipriano wrote:
| Remove SSN field from DTO - 49 million
|
| Invoice Fee - 1 million
|
| Not bad for -1 lines of code.
| christophilus wrote:
| > fixing the flaw could cost the state $50 million
|
| It's hard to imagine the kind of contorted bureaucracy that
| could turn such a fix into a $50 million change request, and
| yet, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it did cost that much.
| miohtama wrote:
| Governor's cousin need to eat, too.
| elliekelly wrote:
| I would absolutely _love_ to know who provided that estimate
| and how they arrived at that number. I understand that issues
| are often far more complex than they appear but this just seems
| ridiculous.
| handrous wrote:
| Turns out a bunch of other systems _rely on_ this bug to
| fetch information, and no-one 's entirely sure where they
| are, who's responsible for them, or what they do. Also the
| page is auto-generated though some arcane CMS such that it's
| really hard to figure out how to get the data off that page
| while keeping it other places where it needs to be, without
| restructuring the whole thing. Also deployment is manual and
| you'll need to go back and forth with some unrelated
| department for months to make it happen. Also there's no
| testing environment, no information about how to get it
| running--let alone any useful scripts or config/deployment
| management--is in the repo or otherwise available at all, and
| there are no tests. And it's all written in an unholy
| combination of ASP.NET and Java server pages. And the
| "database" is a standards-nonconforming CSV.
|
| (pure speculation)
| tppiotrowski wrote:
| Cheap solution: put a proxy in front like
| Cloudworker/Lambda and modify the HTML before it gets sent
| to client.
| kizer wrote:
| I know right. An immediate fix shouldn't cost anything,
| right? Just don't send social security numbers to the
| browser.
| comeonseriously wrote:
| What are the odds it will be going to someone he knows?
| cure wrote:
| I could totally fix it for $49 million. /s
| vjust wrote:
| Contractors in Missouri must be drooling in anticipation.
| _3u10 wrote:
| This is a race to the bottom and why tech workers need to
| unionize. Soon someone could be fixing it for a measly $1
| million. /s
| ficklepickle wrote:
| I wonder if the page in question is cached in the internet
| archive.
| LordAtlas wrote:
| Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28866805
| aaroninsf wrote:
| I understand the mistake of being born in MO. I understand the
| mistake of settling there long ago.
|
| I have minimal sympathy for those who have chosen to stay
| recently.
|
| I have contempt for those who would move there now, or seek out
| business there.
| zzzeek wrote:
| > "And then to react in this way where you don't say 'thank you'
| but actually turn on the reporter and researchers and go after
| them...it's just weird."
|
| it's not "weird", it's an elected official trying to deflect from
| being exposed as completely endangering the PII of state
| employees. while trying to bring charges here is ridiculous, it
| might not be the case in a few years as we watch the continued
| crumbling of institutions, where bad faith arguments made up on
| the fly by anyone in power become excuses to do anything. like
| trying to extort the government of Ukraine to work on behalf of
| the official's personal reelection campaign, for example.
| CivBase wrote:
| It's kind of weird. After all, it's not like the governor is
| directly responsible for the flaw. Even if his opposition could
| have indirectly linked his administration to the flaw, his
| response has certainly done far more damage to his reputation
| than that ever could.
| weatherlight wrote:
| Most likely voters don't understand how computers work. I'm
| not sure it'll matter much.
| not2b wrote:
| For more complex cases this could be an issue, but this one
| is dead simple: you could do "view source" and see
| teachers' social security numbers. If they go to trial this
| case will be laughed out of court.
| treeman79 wrote:
| I'm fairly sure he doesn't understand. Language used makes
| it sounds he has no clue how html works.
|
| Back in 90s, I was constantly being accused of hacking
| things just for knowing how to build a website. This was
| also the era of when the news would run phone polls on
| whether the Internet should be allowed or not.
|
| I learn to keep my mouth shut about what I could do unless
| I was sure it was a tech savvy crowd.
|
| This dude brings back a lot of those memories
| bee_rider wrote:
| > This was also the era of when the news would run phone
| polls on whether the Internet should be allowed or not.
|
| Given the way things are going, perhaps we should revisit
| this decision. It seems that there's a population that
| isn't quite ready for this level of access to
| [mis]information.
| handrous wrote:
| > This was also the era of when the news would run phone
| polls on whether the Internet should be allowed or not.
|
| Clearly, people answered those polls incorrectly.
|
| It should definitely not be allowed.
| denton-scratch wrote:
| I agree. Only elites should be allowed to use stuff like
| LSD, computers and the internet. This can be arranged
| simply by criminalising it; along with a social
| convention that elites don't get prosecuted. /s
| handrous wrote:
| No, no, no. More LSD. Less Internet.
| EtherTyper wrote:
| I still think the governor can be seen as indirectly
| responsible, since this is a result of insufficient security
| auditing.
| EtherTyper wrote:
| Right, or allegedly trying to extort the government of Ukraine
| to end an investigation against the official's relatives.
| Corruption on all sides unfortunately.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| dkarl wrote:
| I wouldn't be surprised if the governor acted more because he
| sensed an opportunity than out of fear of the story. By playing
| the story this way, he gets to act out the feelings of a
| constituency that feels judged by educated urbanites and unable
| to keep up with a changing world. He is standing up for the
| honor of Missouri against the sneering condescension of the
| fancy city reporter. From that point of view, he isn't dealing
| with a threat so much as feasting on a political opportunity.
| tibbydudeza wrote:
| It is like pipes.
| dylan604 wrote:
| or tubes
| masswerk wrote:
| Is this the beginning of the War on Developer Tools?
| austincheney wrote:
| Not likely. More likely the start of law suits against
| information technology owners who provide insecure access and
| threaten people.
| busymom0 wrote:
| > fixing the flaw could cost the state $50 million
|
| Ummmmm how does something need that much money for a bug fix???
| Bilal_io wrote:
| I'd be happy to fix it for half.
| PennRobotics wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28866805
| Gunax wrote:
| This is exactly what happened to weev. He found that information
| that was intended to be private was made publicly available by
| AT&T.
|
| Weev went to prison for typing in URLs that he should not have.
| They were criminal URLs, just loke thess.
| mikeyouse wrote:
| Kind of... The AT&T data wasn't public, Weev & Co. had to build
| a script to generate plausible ICCIDs which they then
| 'challenged' the AT&T servers with the URL containing the
| ICCID. If it was a valid iPad ICCID and registered with AT&T,
| the server would reply with the email address registered to it.
|
| That seems materially different to just F12ing a website and
| seeing plaintext Social Security numbers.
| Infernal wrote:
| > "hacker took the records of at least three educators, decoded
| the HTML source code, and viewed the social security number of
| those specific educators."
|
| There's so much wrong here - am I to understand that if the state
| sends you SSNs in plaintext and you read them, _you're_ at fault?
| mike_d wrote:
| > if the state sends you SSNs in plaintext
|
| No no no. It was decoded from HTML, a process so complex Chrome
| is able to consume an entire modern desktop computer doing so.
| prepend wrote:
| Only if you decode the plaintext with your eyes.
| kizer wrote:
| I think the governor ought to resign. He's taking something that
| is, ultimately, HIS fault and trying to pin it of course on "the
| media". The SSN numbers were in the page; they were in the source
| code. "View source" is not decrypting a webpage. God, I know he
| just has no technical understanding but even then he should be
| smart enough to get the details and realize they weren't
| "hacked". This person clearly doesn't understand what a free
| press is --- they could have legally ran the story without even
| alerting the state agency, but they did the right thing and this
| idiot governor is still trying to deflect blame.
| c-swa wrote:
| As a citizen of the pitiful state, we tried to vote him out
| last election cycle. He wasn't even elected before this,
| something along the lines of Nixon's transfer of power to Ford
| is what happened in my state.
|
| Yet he was re-elected.
| mgamache wrote:
| This is embarrassing, so lets pretend it's a crime for the
| reporter to report the truth. This tactic might work for the NSA,
| but I hope it doesn't work here.
| [deleted]
| throwawaymanbot wrote:
| a little odd to have this stance No? Its almost as if hes
| punishing the reporter for the discovery .. which makes me wonder
| was it being siphoned politically beforehand and hes trying to
| direct the story away from whoever may have been siphoning it..to
| the false story of ... the reporter discovering the siphoning.
| kyleblarson wrote:
| This reminds me of the US senator demanding that FB commit to
| ending 'finsta'. He clearly had no idea what that term means.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGt1Ukg7q4Y
| afrcnc wrote:
| duplicate: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28866805
| theunraveler wrote:
| $50m to fix? Seems a little ridiculous...
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| _Missouri Gov. Mike Parson (R) .. vowed his administration would
| seek to prosecute and investigate .. anyone who aided the
| publication in its "attempt to embarrass the state and sell
| headlines for their news outlet."_
|
| Embarrassing governments is the natural outcome of the press
| doing it's job. This is what the extra constitutional protections
| are for.
| tshaddox wrote:
| And suppressing opposition is the natural outcome of the
| government doing its job. The problem isn't whether one group
| or another is "doing its natural job." The problem is that what
| the reporter is doing is good, and what the government is doing
| is bad.
| lostcolony wrote:
| "And suppressing opposition is the natural outcome of the
| government doing its job. " - no it isn't. It's the natural
| outcome of shitty people being elected. The JD isn't
| "jackboots on necks" or whatever.
| tshaddox wrote:
| > no it isn't. It's the natural outcome of shitty people
| being elected.
|
| Okay, well it's the outcome of literally every government
| of non-trivial size and duration.
| idiotsecant wrote:
| Your original intention, I believe, was to comment on the
| natural tendency of the system we've put in place. The
| phrasing "doing their job" has a slightly different
| implication, I think, of a system doing what it's
| "supposed" to do and not what it actually does.
| [deleted]
| jrs235 wrote:
| This is why my outlook on the future is growing dim.
| Politicians are threatening revenge, using the power and purse
| of the state, against people who embarrass them.
| cortesoft wrote:
| Politicians are always threatening revenge for stuff like
| this, for as long as there has been politics.
|
| It is only concerning if the threat is successful.
| RIMR wrote:
| The only thing that would lead it to being successful is if
| people are convinced that the attempt itself isn't
| alarming, and don't act aggressively to do something about
| it.
| speedybird wrote:
| _Peacefully_ donating to the ACLU should be sufficient, I
| don 't agree that violence is presently warranted. If the
| courts fail, then we can talk.
| vipa123 wrote:
| This is as old as the country itself, the constitution is
| stronger than these thugs.
| joe_the_user wrote:
| The US state has successfully suppressed free expression in
| a number of instances (Henry Miller and Wilhelm Reich come
| to mind).
|
| The US isn't special as a democracy and it's been pretty
| shoddy at quite a number of times, though now isn't
| necessarily the worst moment. The constitution is only
| strong on free speech and freedom of the press if people
| defend it.
|
| Edit: It's especially notable that the degree that
| governments in the US are run as personal fief where
| officials lash out at anyone who inconveniences them (as is
| happening here), is strongly related to how far the
| government is from urban centers.
| speedybird wrote:
| > _though now isn 't necessarily the worst moment._
|
| Chattel slavery, the Civil War, the Trail of Tears, the
| internment of Japanese Americans... need I go on? Anybody
| who thinks America _might_ be in a worse state now than
| ever before needs a serious reality check.
| elliekelly wrote:
| Your edit reminds me of an absolutely _insane_ article I
| read a few days ago about an elected Juvenile Court Judge
| in Tennessee: https://www.propublica.org/article/black-
| children-were-jaile...
| et1337 wrote:
| I live in LA and its full of personal fiefdoms. I think
| you just see more talent at obfuscating it.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > the constitution is stronger than these thugs.
|
| The Constitution is exactly as strong as the people who
| _don't_ dismissively pretend it is self-enforcing.
| dragontamer wrote:
| Alien and Sedition acts argue otherwise.
|
| I do believe the 2nd President successfully jailed
| journalists for this for years, leading to the Supreme
| Court deciding to you know, do something about it.
|
| Things are only as strong as the political will believes
| they are strong. There was a period in the 1800s where the
| Supreme Court was ignored for example. The Supreme Court of
| the late 1700s did want to protect the 1st Amendment and
| they did win the political battle vs Adams. But under
| different circumstances, a different result could have very
| much happened.
| dd36 wrote:
| Media used to have more dry powder for fights before
| Facebook and Google intermediated everything.
| [deleted]
| _3u10 wrote:
| There's no extra constitutional protections. It's all under
| free speech. Everyone is equal.
| elliekelly wrote:
| But he's not speaking in his capacity as the individual and
| citizen Michael Parson. He's speaking in his capacity as
| Governor Michael Parson. We know this because he's
| threatening to use his _governing_ powers to employ
| _government_ resources.
|
| Whether state actors have a right to free speech is not, as I
| understand it, a settled matter of law.
| mmcdermott wrote:
| x1000 this.
|
| The freedom of the press is a right granted to all citizenry
| of the United States, not a specialized permission granted to
| an elite caste.
| Retric wrote:
| The freedom of the press isn't about cast, but it is about
| context.
|
| For example based on Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire it's
| constitutional to prohibit "fighting words." Which would
| mean some things are fine in print but you can't say to
| someone's face because they would provoke violence.
| lkrubner wrote:
| It was added as an amendment, therefore it is an extra
| constitutional protection. Some people (a broad coalition
| that included both Federalists and anti-Federalists) were
| concerned that the Constitution, as originally written, did
| not ensure a protection of human rights. That's why they
| pushed through the Bill Of Rights.
| rsynnott wrote:
| > attempt to embarrass the state
|
| I hadn't realised the US had kept lese-majeste when it broke
| with the UK (even in the UK, the last prosecution was in 1715,
| so this is particularly retro of his governorship...)
| kizer wrote:
| Exactly. Thank you nosy media. This anti-press stuff started
| with Trump. Terrifying how authoritarian the right has become.
|
| Reporters, please continue "embarrassing" all states. The sane
| leaders and citizens will be thanking you.
| NoGravitas wrote:
| > This anti-press stuff started with Trump.
|
| * gestures vaguely in the direction of Richard Nixon, waits
| for historians to chime in with earlier examples.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > Richard Nixon
|
| There's a case that Spiro ("nattering nabobs of
| negativism") Agnew is a better Nixon-era example than Nixon
| himself, not that it started then, either.
| woodruffw wrote:
| I highly recommend The Boys on the Bus by Timothy Crouse[1]
| for some fantastic contemporaneous analysis of Richard
| Nixon and his relationship with the press. One part that
| stood out to me: Crouse believes (and presents compelling
| evidence) that Nixon was one of the first presidents to
| _really understand_ the press, particularly the press of
| the nascent information age. Goldwater and Agnew were of
| the more reactionary anti-press strain, as other commenters
| have noted; Nixon (per Crouse) genuinely loved the press
| (if not reporters themselves) and relished in his control
| over it.
|
| [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boys_on_the_Bus
| nostrademons wrote:
| I'll leave this here:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_Stat
| e...
| krapp wrote:
| Trump literally called the press the enemy of the people.
|
| Traditionally, that's the sort of rhetoric a leader uses
| when they're about to send out the hit squads.
| kasey_junk wrote:
| If 'kizer had said "was extremely increased" by Trump it
| would be an accurate statement.
|
| It's frankly one of the planks of the shadow platform of
| the Trump Republican Party that journalists are enemies.
| InvaderFizz wrote:
| Anti-press goes back decades, centuries even.
|
| Calling it a left/right issue just diverts from the real
| problem of government overreach and negative reaction to the
| exposure of malfeasance.
|
| If you seriously think anti-press is a Trump phenomenon, I
| encourage you to look into the creation and use of the Alien
| and Sedition acts.
|
| Or maybe how Lincoln treated press that was not acting as a
| propaganda arm of the Federal government.
|
| If you want a more contemporary example, take a look at
| Obamas use of wiretapping against journalists and other
| attacks on press freedom.
|
| When you treat this as a thing that only happens because of
| one "side", nothing is done to address the root cause.
| newacct583 wrote:
| > Calling it a left/right issue just diverts from the real
| problem
|
| Alternatively, arguments like that divert from the "real"
| problem that half of the political discourse of this
| country is _predicated_ on an "anti-press" sentiment that
| allows political actors to lie at will.
|
| Yes, there have been abuses against journalists throughout
| history. And because of that, it's possible to take a long
| view that "journalism" as a whole will win, given at least
| a little protection. Society will survive the occasional
| corrupt leader. It always has.
|
| But the current climate where republicans can simply ignore
| reporting by mainstream outlets and cite their own
| alternative media instead is somewhat unique, historically.
| Something like two thirds of republican voters simply...
| don't believe in the results of a recent election, because
| their thought leaders won't tell them straight what the
| results were. This seems like rather a more pressing threat
| to democracy.
| christophilus wrote:
| The Julian Assange fiasco predates Trump's rise to power, and
| was (at least in my opinion) a very clear anti-press action
| on the part of the US.
| mikeyouse wrote:
| Though it got much more dire under Trump..
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/sep/27/senior-cia-
| off...
| [deleted]
| 234023048230948 wrote:
| https://itwire.com/security/infosec-researchers-slam-ex-wapo...
| tombert wrote:
| This is so idiotic. Does Missouri really want to discourage
| people from reporting security vulnerabilities? It sounds like
| this reporter did the responsible thing and alert all affected
| parties. I can almost guarantee that if a decent person found
| this, a dozen less-decent people did too. If a decent person is
| afraid to report a security issue, even more less-decent folks
| are going to have access to this information.
| wrs wrote:
| Don't try to bring logic, reason, and/or prudence into it --
| this is politics, which is a whole other thing.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| Oh hey, my home state is on Hacker News!
|
| Oh... sigh.
| hangonhn wrote:
| _hugs_
|
| My home state is Florida. It will be alright.
| busterarm wrote:
| I just moved to Florida after New York completely lost the
| fucking plot. Literally my neighborhood (Hell's Kitchen)
| reverted to its 1980s self, street-walking prostitutes
| included. Homeless encampments as far as the eye can see.
|
| Loving it here so far.
| selectodude wrote:
| Thanks for your input.
| krapp wrote:
| (waves from Texas)
| tombert wrote:
| As a fellow Florida-raised human, I feel your pain.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Being from Texas, I feel like Texas and Florida are in a
| race to wherever it is they think they are going. I feel
| like there needs to be a state level rivalry like colleges.
| Brings a new meaning to Texas State vs Florida State. Maybe
| they can have halftime shows too. I also think state laws
| should be copyrightable so that when other states copy
| their asinine laws, the originating state gets royalties.
| tombert wrote:
| Just to make sure that I got both experiences, I also
| lived in Texas for three years after leaving Florida.
| dylan604 wrote:
| You are a glutten for punishment! I moved out of Texas
| and moved to the west coast for a bit. I then eventually
| moved back to Texas for family reasons. Moving back was
| much worse of culture shock. Yes, I knew what to expect,
| but after being away from it and then dropped back in
| just reminds you of how bad different it is. Kind of like
| a boiling frog growing up, but then being the lobster as
| an adult.
| mindcrime wrote:
| Right there with ya (my home state is NC).
| handrous wrote:
| At least y'all have beaches and something resembling real
| mountains. :-/
| busterarm wrote:
| Like most Missourians I know (mostly who have left their state
| though), it's fair to say that you've transcended where you're
| from.
|
| Thanks for all you've done -- I use your work daily.
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