[HN Gopher] 32 Bit Real Estate
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       32 Bit Real Estate
        
       Author : craigkerstiens
       Score  : 77 points
       Date   : 2021-10-19 16:48 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (fly.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (fly.io)
        
       | dadrian wrote:
       | For what it's worth, this aligns with my experience buying /24's
       | over the last two years.
        
       | mike_d wrote:
       | > One last thing: a new 5-digit ASN will cost you about $500 from
       | ARIN, but there are auctions for 4-digit ASNs, and they run into
       | mid-five-figures. If any of you can explain this to us, we'd be
       | grateful.
       | 
       | To answer the authors question: lower number ASNs are seen as
       | older more established networks when negotiating peering. It's
       | the equivalent of doing a WHOIS on someone's personal domain and
       | seeing when they started seriously internetting.
       | 
       | Obviously shorter numbers are more memorable and easier to type
       | frequently, which is a desirable trait for network operators.
       | 
       | You probably spent a few bucks on "fly.io" and applied a mental
       | value to the outward perception of a short memorable domain.
        
       | psim1 wrote:
       | We recently received a /23 block from ARIN by sitting on the
       | waiting list for about 2 months. If you're not in a hurry and
       | you're not looking for a large block of IPv4, wait. Small
       | companies still have a chance at IPv4 without paying a fortune.
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | Oh, this is very cool. What is your company doing with the
         | addresses? I wonder if there are applications where it's easier
         | to get addresses than others.
        
           | mike_d wrote:
           | "Justification" at the RIRs is a little subjective, but it is
           | supposed to be based entirely on technical need not use case.
           | 
           | If you want to talk more about getting additional IPs, Mark
           | at your provider is a super smart dude, or you can ping me
           | offline.
        
         | mrkurt wrote:
         | RIPE was handing out /20s to new members about 2 years ago, as
         | well. I'm a fan, it would be nice for more people to have
         | smaller blocks.
        
           | techsupporter wrote:
           | They were /22 I believe. You can still get a single /24 as a
           | new RIPE member, and no waiting at the moment as their IPv4
           | waiting list is empty.
        
       | mwcampbell wrote:
       | > we assign distinct public IPv4 addresses to each app running on
       | Fly.io.
       | 
       | Why not charge a premium for even one distinct public IPv4
       | address? Most applications are HTTP(S)-based and could share a
       | reverse proxy with a thousand other apps, right? You could even
       | spin the lack of distinct public IPs as a positive: zero IPv4
       | footprint.
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | The post talks about this (I take your point that we didn't
         | write about it clearly enough). There are two reasons:
         | 
         | 1. We don't want to do anything to discourage people from
         | building non-HTTP applications on Fly.io, because we're fans of
         | weird applications.
         | 
         | 2. Just giving every app a routable address simplifies our own
         | deployment logic (at the expense of acquiring blocks of IP
         | addresses).
         | 
         | Really, the reason we were moved to write about this is (2);
         | specifically: so long as IPv4 addresses are appreciating assets
         | (as current buyers, we can report: they remain appreciating
         | assets), then there is a sense in which holding IPv4 blocks is
         | really just holding money in a different, somewhat less liquid
         | (but potentially profitable) form.
         | 
         | We're not saying that's a _good_ thing, just that it 's
         | interesting that you can essentially take out a mortgage on a
         | large block of addresses and live in it while it appreciates.
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | TLS doesn't require HTTP.
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | Sure. You take my meaning, I assume. Virtually all of the
             | TLS apps on Fly.io are HTTPS apps.
        
         | mike_d wrote:
         | > Most applications are HTTP(S)-based and could share a reverse
         | proxy with a thousand other apps, right?
         | 
         | Try running your SaaS app on an IP address shared with a porn
         | site and you'll quickly discover all the strange ways older
         | middle-boxes try to police network traffic.
        
       | p1mrx wrote:
       | This is why people have been trying to promote IPv6 for the last
       | couple decades. It is silly that new internet companies should
       | have to pay money to those who got here first.
       | 
       | Still waiting for AAAA records on news.ycombinator.com. IPv6-only
       | SIP trunking would also be nice, since an IPv4 address is the
       | main cost of hosting a small PBX.
        
         | Enginerrrd wrote:
         | IPv6 should have been designed to be backwards compatible and
         | smoothly transition people over. Why not design it so you can
         | just quietly migrate to ipv6 on the infrastructure side by
         | introducing automatic translation of ipv4 packets into ipv6 and
         | back by padding and removing zeros, and automatically reserving
         | all the resulting ipv6 addresses to their ipv4 equivalent
         | owners.
         | 
         | This situation is the result of poor design and roll-out
         | decisions, not the fault of everyone else.
        
           | duskwuff wrote:
           | > IPv6 should have been designed to be backwards compatible
           | 
           | Impossible. You can't communicate between two hosts without
           | both hosts being able to address the other -- and there's no
           | way for an IPv4-only host to pack 128 bits of address into a
           | 32-bit host field.
        
             | seiferteric wrote:
             | I wonder if you could use something like IP in IP
             | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_in_IP), basically just
             | slap another IP header on your packet so your IP becomes
             | two 32 bit IPs, one for your ISP and one for you.
        
           | akersten wrote:
           | As I'm (slowly, begrudgingly) learning about IPv6 I can't
           | help but agree. Astounding that backwards compatibility was
           | abandoned in favor of ... Being able to hand out a /64 or /48
           | to anyone with a pulse? No residential customer needs that
           | many addresses, yet I can call my ISP today and block that
           | off for eternity. To what end?
           | 
           | IPv6 should just have been a superset and
           | 0..1.xxx.yyy.zzz.ttt should have been the legacy IPv4 space.
           | I really don't get the point of all the bizarre block
           | assignments, hexadecimal fetish, and general "why is this
           | seemingly purposefully such a pain in the ass" feeling I get
           | whenever I look at it.
        
         | CarelessExpert wrote:
         | Yeah, I truly do not understand what's causing Hacker News or
         | Reddit to drag their feet. My guess is they've simply done the
         | calculus and decided the number of impacted users doesn't
         | justify the cost, and meanwhile, they already have their v4
         | allocation so there's no financial pressure either.
         | 
         | I'm starting to think the RIR's should just start charging
         | increasing YoY maintenance fees on v4 address space for
         | companies that haven't rolled out v6. Those companies, who
         | already have an allocation, are really benefiting from a
         | negative externality. Maybe it's time they start paying for the
         | privilege.
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | SIP_ALG is what I like to call the biggest cost of VOIP,
         | especially from home.
         | 
         | I'd love to just have a firewall between my SIP device and the
         | internet with IPv6 and none of the games routers play these
         | days.
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-19 23:00 UTC)