[HN Gopher] Drone operator will try to rescue dogs from Spanish ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Drone operator will try to rescue dogs from Spanish volcano
        
       Author : ClosedPistachio
       Score  : 134 points
       Date   : 2021-10-19 17:19 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
        
       | kodah wrote:
       | Honestly, these kinds of stories make me proud of humanity.
        
       | esel2k wrote:
       | I think the 4minutes will be very hard. But since the limiting
       | factor is the battery and the dog probably not cooperating, why
       | not first fly a solar panel (to charge the drone) or an unpowered
       | trap (to give enough time to catch the dog) to allow to rerisk
       | the limitations...
        
         | foobarbecue wrote:
         | Good idea. I'm not sure why drone charging stations with auto
         | landing pads aren't a commerically sold product yet. I've seen
         | a lot of implementations in masters theses and stuff. If your
         | robot vaccum can do it, your drone can do it.
        
         | dymk wrote:
         | Flying in a solar panel along with a system that can connect
         | itself to the drone autonomously sounds very expensive (does
         | such a system exist?). Or is the idea to put a solar panel on
         | the drone, and then have it land and charge for a while?
         | 
         | Something like a big raccoon trap is probably a good idea -
         | perhaps they're running up against weight limits. Those traps
         | are pretty heavy.
        
           | tyingq wrote:
           | A deep trash can with some meat glued to the bottom would
           | probably work, with the drone tied to something near the open
           | top. It would fall on its side when set down, and trap the
           | dog when lifted. Assuming there's a way to lift it quickly
           | enough.
           | 
           | I suppose dropping a trap, and coming back later is a better
           | idea, but it would use a lot of the 20kg weight budget.
        
       | LoriP wrote:
       | Poor dogs will be terrified but got to hope the best for them. It
       | feels like a tall order though, in and out in 8 minutes... Not
       | sure I can watch tbh
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | spaetzleesser wrote:
       | Just wondering: Would this be something for somebody with one of
       | the new jetpacks?
        
       | mmaunder wrote:
       | They should drop a trap with food if the dogs are still
       | ambulatory. Avoids having to hover and make multiple trap
       | attempts, and risk running out of power in flight. It's also
       | easier to pick up a trap with a dog in it than trap a dog
       | terrified of the giant buzzing thing above them. And it ensures
       | they don't half-net a dog only to have it fall out en-route.
        
         | elihu wrote:
         | I think that's basically their plan. In order for it to work,
         | they need each dog to voluntarily enter the net.
        
           | TaylorAlexander wrote:
           | I'm imagining three skeptical dogs. One cautiously enters the
           | net. The other dogs watch as the first is lifted and flown
           | away. I wonder what the other two dogs would think then.
           | Hopefully they'd see that anywhere else is better than where
           | they've been stuck. And I guess drones have been dropping
           | food so they would have at least some positive experience
           | with drones in the past.
        
             | klipt wrote:
             | Relevant PBF? https://pbfcomics.com/comics/the-jubilee/
        
       | junon wrote:
       | The article doesn't mention any way to follow this. Anyone have
       | any idea?
        
         | ccsalvesen wrote:
         | Twitter and google translate:
         | https://mobile.twitter.com/aerocamaras
        
       | entropie wrote:
       | We just imported such a dog from spain from a rescue agency to
       | find a new owner for the dog in germany (thats the most easy
       | part, I guess). Otherwise they are euthanized. Its a Podenco mix,
       | the same type of dog as seen on the pictures.
       | 
       | I really hope they can rescue them but I fear these dogs will it
       | not make easy to catch them with a net and even more hard to fly
       | them out because I bet they will try to free them self.
        
       | INTPenis wrote:
       | This seems like a bad idea. Are they hurting? Can't they just
       | keep flying in food and water?
       | 
       | If they fall they're dead, if they get tangled in the net they
       | might be dead.
        
       | poopsmithe wrote:
       | Yay! I am cheering them on.
       | 
       | I believe I found Aerocameras youtube channel, which also
       | contains links to website, Instagram, Facebook, and Linkedin
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/user/dreamsfactorysl
        
         | hedgehog wrote:
         | This appears to be the drone they're using:
         | 
         | https://www.dji.com/mobile/t20/specs
         | 
         | I'm not sure how to calculate the max payload, it looks like
         | maybe 20kg.
        
       | jjtheblunt wrote:
       | steerable dirigible, like the goodyear blimp, with suspended
       | cable and basket?
        
         | gridspy wrote:
         | It would crash.
         | 
         | A dirigible requires a temperature difference between the
         | ambient (surrounding) air and the air inside the lift bladder.
         | Or the same temperature but different density.
         | 
         | The heat of the lava would create an area of lower air density
         | which would result in a significant loss of lift as it crosses.
         | 
         | I guess you could compensate with a high altitude crossing, but
         | it still sounds dangerous.
        
         | mikestew wrote:
         | If the heat is intense enough to damage helicopter blades, I
         | question how well a big bag of gas is going to cope.
        
         | NikolaeVarius wrote:
         | What the hell would this accomplish
        
           | sp332 wrote:
           | Improve range, dwell time, carrying capacity, and noise
           | levels.
        
       | TheDudeMan wrote:
       | Why not leave them there and continue to feed and water them?
        
         | onychomys wrote:
         | The eruption is continuing and is often quite severe, I assume
         | there's no guarantee that the place they are will stay safe for
         | long.
        
       | ClosedPistachio wrote:
       | https://archive.md/fjkXQ
        
       | sergiotapia wrote:
       | Is a helicopter out of the question?
        
         | vient wrote:
         | Have you opened the link?
         | 
         | > Helicopters are banned from flying to the area because of hot
         | gas that can damage their rotors.
        
           | waynesonfire wrote:
           | "What's the matter, Colonel Sandurz? Chicken?"
        
           | consumer451 wrote:
           | Which is not quite accurate. AFAIK, the problem is that the
           | tiny particles quickly destroy the turbine engines, not the
           | rotor itself.
        
             | fencepost wrote:
             | Which makes me wonder about the feasibility of a drone with
             | flight powered by hydrogen peroxide rather than electric
             | motors......
             | 
             | Little single-person helicopters powered with 85% H2O2 and
             | a silver catalyst cropped up as a thing back in 2010, but
             | the company in question appears to be gone now.
        
             | tweedledee wrote:
             | I'm sure the tiny particles would damage the rotors as
             | well. Even rain is bad enough.
        
             | gridspy wrote:
             | Probably the reporter assumes most people consider the
             | whole "spinny thing that keeps helicopter in air" package
             | to be one thing. Turbine, rotor and all.
        
               | zardo wrote:
               | Or the reporter and editor both don't know much about
               | helicopters, or don't consider the details of why they
               | can't fly to be worth spending their time on.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | JshWright wrote:
       | If they have been dropping food from drones, why have they been
       | "eating very little"? Couldn't they just drop more food...?
        
         | cmcaine wrote:
         | Dogs often eat a lot less when they are stressed, though
         | usually not so little or for so long that they get emaciated.
        
         | bjornsing wrote:
         | Agree. Seems like a much safer bet.
        
       | vorpalhex wrote:
       | Obviously a last ditch rescue attempt, which vindicates the
       | untested methodology that we might otherwise be critical of.
       | 
       | Also rather faith restoring that so many people are attempting to
       | save these animals at cost to themselves.
        
         | jagger27 wrote:
         | This language reminds me of the infamous Thai cave rescue. Look
         | how public opinion turned on Elon in that instance.
         | 
         | There are a lot of differences here, of course.
        
           | wavefunction wrote:
           | Didn't public opinion swing against Elon Musk for trying to
           | insert himself into an already on-going rescue and then
           | called one of the men who did rescue the kids a 'pedo-guy'?
           | That's something I'd expect from a 13 year old on xbox live.
        
             | Hokusai wrote:
             | That exactly. People were disgusted by the attention grab
             | and the lack of respect for people risking their lives.
             | 'I'm a billionaire, look at me!' syndrome.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | Are. Not were. The fact that we see this still being
               | mentioned is a pretty good testimony to how utterly tone
               | deaf Musk was when he did that.
        
               | happytiger wrote:
               | That's an astute point.
        
             | zionic wrote:
             | > one of the men who did rescue the kids a 'pedo-guy'?
             | 
             | AFAIK it was a consultant, who advised the actual divers,
             | who first told elon to "shove his sub up his ass".
             | 
             | Immaturity all around.
        
             | aaron695 wrote:
             | > and then called one of the men who did rescue the kids a
             | 'pedo-guy'
             | 
             | Absolutely not.
             | 
             | It was in response to the backlash, complicated, and
             | clearly Elon wasn't doing anything for PR. He's smart and
             | has a smart team, he knew if he killed the kids it'd hurt
             | him an order of magnitude more than saving them. The fact
             | one person died in the rescue was not unfortunate, it was
             | expected, getting every kid out alive was unexpected.
             | 
             | "The subject of Musk's tweet, Vernon Unsworth, had slammed
             | the tech leader's efforts to aid in the cave rescue by
             | building a miniature submarine, calling it a "PR stunt" in
             | an interview with CNN." (CNN lied about Unsworth calling it
             | a "PR stunt", FWIW)
             | 
             | People are so mentally ill they can't even remember their
             | own lives anymore. It's all on the record in Google, but I
             | guess no one cares about the fidelity of their own past.
             | 
             | These drone operators will get fucked if they drop the
             | dogs. Because people are cunts and want someone to hurt.
             | That's the Twitter way, always ends up a lynch mob. The
             | media has always done this, but Twitter refined it to a
             | speedy art with no recovery, pre-internet it was cyclic at
             | least.
        
         | 323 wrote:
         | > Also rather faith restoring that so many people are
         | attempting to save these animals at cost to themselves.
         | 
         | You're a bit naive.
         | 
         | They will easily be able to raise $200k on a GoFundMe like
         | thing. They will also gain massive social networks followings
         | and be invited to leading podcasts and TV shows to talk about
         | their heroism.
         | 
         | All with minimal investment and zero personal and reputational
         | risk, nobody will blame them if they fail.
        
           | sushisource wrote:
           | To contrast, I think maybe you're being a bit overly cynical.
           | What evidence is there of that happening? Even if they did,
           | is that such a bad thing? Can the guy not want to both save
           | the dogs and make a cool video? They're not mutually
           | exclusive.
        
             | 323 wrote:
             | I once read an article which was about how we are willing
             | to spend thousands to save one particular dog, or one
             | particular injured bird, instead of donating that money to
             | "animal habitat preservation" or something similar which
             | will save thousands of diverse animals.
             | 
             | And then there's the whole industrial farm-animal raising
             | thing, where billions of animals are systematically
             | tortured. But nobody cares, because it's not a particular
             | animal in a particular situation that we can stand behind
             | and do cool saving off to show our "humanity".
        
               | crate_barre wrote:
               | We would do this for anyone honestly, it's not just dogs.
               | That's tough to see. My heart isn't handling this well
               | and I just heard about it.
               | 
               | I hope the net is very big, they'd have to do dry runs
               | with the net with the food in it, get them used to going
               | into the net for the food. The hard part is going to be
               | (well every part is hard), but if both dogs come into the
               | net, that's going to be a failed attempt.
               | 
               | Sadly I think they may only get one dog out, unless the
               | dogs have different sleeping patterns, grab the awake
               | one. I have no idea, this is heart breaking.
               | 
               | Maybe send a huge net with 4 drones to ensure if both
               | dogs come in, they can carry the load out.
               | 
               | If they pull it off, take all the free marketing you can
               | eat.
        
               | onychomys wrote:
               | I mean, we'd obviously do it for people. I'm not sure
               | we'd do it for many other animals, though.
        
               | sushisource wrote:
               | People act irrationally when it comes to their feelings
               | on preserving life. Human or animal.
               | 
               | I think it's pretty lame to say "Well, we shouldn't save
               | one particular being because we're not maximally saving
               | the most beings!".
               | 
               | Accept what we can get, and work with that. Don't let the
               | perfect be the enemy of the good.
        
               | exporectomy wrote:
               | It's not clear that many of these efforts are good at
               | all. A classic example is feeding stray cats. That just
               | increases the carrying capacity so you're creating more
               | stray cats and even more will be hungry.
               | 
               | Exterminate cows to prevent cow suffering? Or farm them
               | to maximize their population?
        
               | sushisource wrote:
               | I mean that's fair, but we're talking about airlifting
               | some poor dogs with a cool drone, not exactly a common
               | thing that will lead to long term problems.
        
               | nickff wrote:
               | > _"...billions of animals are systematically tortured.
               | But nobody cares... "_
               | 
               | Many people do care, and show it in various ways, from
               | paying extra for free-range eggs, to going vegetarian or
               | vegan. I agree with the other commenter that you're being
               | overly cynical.
        
               | oblak wrote:
               | You're right but it doesn't really matter in the grand
               | scheme of things, though.
               | 
               | For every vegetarian, vegan, or anyone just willing to
               | scale down, there are hundreds who would happily consume
               | more of that sweet subsidized meat, even if it kills
               | them.
               | 
               | Sorry for the rant
        
               | munificent wrote:
               | You may discover one day that there is no "grand scheme
               | of things", no final day of reckoning when all of
               | humanity is tallied up to decide once and for all if
               | we're a Good or Bad species.
               | 
               | It's just individuals doing what they can with what they
               | have.
        
               | oblak wrote:
               | Well, I didn't mean it as some kind of grand cosmic
               | spiritual picture or anything. Frankly, I am not sure
               | what made you believe that.
               | 
               | In any case, what I meant was that while individual
               | efforts matter, they're dwarfed by de facto policy,
               | formal or not. And, implicitly, that I am more than a
               | tiny bit annoyed by people who desperately try to offset
               | anyone's efforts just because they can. Consume, consume,
               | consume. As being able is a justification enough in
               | itself.
        
               | nickff wrote:
               | You said that efforts to relieve the plight of animals _"
               | doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things"_,
               | but I disagree with you, as helping one animal is
               | meaningful. I don't understand how you can believe that
               | animals as a whole deserve better without also believing
               | that each animal deserves better.
               | 
               | You now brought up a separate issue, which seems to be
               | rooted in a philosophical disagreement. If you think the
               | 'desperate consumers' are causing harm, I invite you to
               | convince them to change their ways. As an incrementalist,
               | I see each small improvement as virtuous.
        
               | thewakalix wrote:
               | Perhaps this is "scope insensitivity".
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_neglect
        
               | mike_d wrote:
               | > And then there's the whole industrial farm-animal
               | raising thing
               | 
               | Huge difference between a pet that has developed human
               | companionship bonds over thousands of years and a chicken
               | or a cow that would be extinct had it not been delicious.
        
               | oblak wrote:
               | You're right. I've been thinking how many animals, not
               | just birds, have been killed so that I can provide the
               | birds that come by our window with sunflower, pumpkin or
               | some other kind of seed.
               | 
               | Yes, I am fucking hypocrite.
        
               | s1artibartfast wrote:
               | Just because the act is irrational or sub-optimal does
               | not mean it is insincere.
               | 
               | In many respects, the "rational" response would be to
               | shoot the dogs with a rifle and donate the rescue funds
               | to an animal shelter.
        
           | mike_d wrote:
           | The company has posted to social media asking people and news
           | media to stop trying to contact them and their employees so
           | they can focus on preparing for the rescue.
           | 
           | I don't think money or fame is the motivation here.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | voz_ wrote:
           | What a wildly toxic reply. Are you really insinuating that
           | people are saving poor trapped animals due to some selfish
           | motivation? Is this how you see the world? If so, I'd rather
           | be what you call "Naive".
        
             | 323 wrote:
             | It's worse. There's a whole industry on Facebook/YouTube of
             | people who "save dogs stuck in cement" which they put into
             | that situation, and the videos get tens of millions of
             | views.
             | 
             | https://www.four-paws.org/our-stories/publications-
             | guides/fa...
             | 
             | https://dogtime.com/advocacy/79431-fake-dog-rescue-videos
        
               | crate_barre wrote:
               | I really don't think this is that, and I'm the most
               | cynical bastard on HN.
        
           | kodah wrote:
           | This rhetoric reminds me of the cynicism that a lot of,
           | especially, environmental activists have. There are a lot of
           | ways to make change. If you can prove that a drone can carry
           | a dog out of a very hazardous environment then it's useful as
           | our environment gets universally more hazardous. You're also
           | casting shade on raising money or publicity -- my question to
           | you: what major problem can be solved without isolated public
           | examples and money?
           | 
           | Last, I'm fairly certain calling folks naive is against the
           | HN guidelines.
        
             | 323 wrote:
             | > my question to you: what major problem can be solved
             | without isolated public examples and money
             | 
             | I'm pretty sure the things Bill Gates foundation does are
             | not about isolated public examples - they evaluate
             | proposals based on impact, measured in lives saved, and not
             | in heart warming individual saves. Sterile stuff like
             | providing anti-mosquito bed nets which don't make you tear
             | up.
        
               | kodah wrote:
               | Right, providing a cheap mosquito bed is a little easier
               | to go mass production with than being able to use drones
               | as an emergency recovery vehicle. The latter requires the
               | right motivation and the right (hopeless) risk profile.
               | The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation also absolutely
               | does a lot of advertising and interviews which are aimed
               | at winning hearts and minds about their work.
        
           | kadabra9 wrote:
           | I bet you're a lot of fun at parties.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-10-19 23:00 UTC)