[HN Gopher] Drone operator will try to rescue dogs from Spanish ... ___________________________________________________________________ Drone operator will try to rescue dogs from Spanish volcano Author : ClosedPistachio Score : 134 points Date : 2021-10-19 17:19 UTC (5 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.reuters.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com) | kodah wrote: | Honestly, these kinds of stories make me proud of humanity. | esel2k wrote: | I think the 4minutes will be very hard. But since the limiting | factor is the battery and the dog probably not cooperating, why | not first fly a solar panel (to charge the drone) or an unpowered | trap (to give enough time to catch the dog) to allow to rerisk | the limitations... | foobarbecue wrote: | Good idea. I'm not sure why drone charging stations with auto | landing pads aren't a commerically sold product yet. I've seen | a lot of implementations in masters theses and stuff. If your | robot vaccum can do it, your drone can do it. | dymk wrote: | Flying in a solar panel along with a system that can connect | itself to the drone autonomously sounds very expensive (does | such a system exist?). Or is the idea to put a solar panel on | the drone, and then have it land and charge for a while? | | Something like a big raccoon trap is probably a good idea - | perhaps they're running up against weight limits. Those traps | are pretty heavy. | tyingq wrote: | A deep trash can with some meat glued to the bottom would | probably work, with the drone tied to something near the open | top. It would fall on its side when set down, and trap the | dog when lifted. Assuming there's a way to lift it quickly | enough. | | I suppose dropping a trap, and coming back later is a better | idea, but it would use a lot of the 20kg weight budget. | LoriP wrote: | Poor dogs will be terrified but got to hope the best for them. It | feels like a tall order though, in and out in 8 minutes... Not | sure I can watch tbh | [deleted] | spaetzleesser wrote: | Just wondering: Would this be something for somebody with one of | the new jetpacks? | mmaunder wrote: | They should drop a trap with food if the dogs are still | ambulatory. Avoids having to hover and make multiple trap | attempts, and risk running out of power in flight. It's also | easier to pick up a trap with a dog in it than trap a dog | terrified of the giant buzzing thing above them. And it ensures | they don't half-net a dog only to have it fall out en-route. | elihu wrote: | I think that's basically their plan. In order for it to work, | they need each dog to voluntarily enter the net. | TaylorAlexander wrote: | I'm imagining three skeptical dogs. One cautiously enters the | net. The other dogs watch as the first is lifted and flown | away. I wonder what the other two dogs would think then. | Hopefully they'd see that anywhere else is better than where | they've been stuck. And I guess drones have been dropping | food so they would have at least some positive experience | with drones in the past. | klipt wrote: | Relevant PBF? https://pbfcomics.com/comics/the-jubilee/ | junon wrote: | The article doesn't mention any way to follow this. Anyone have | any idea? | ccsalvesen wrote: | Twitter and google translate: | https://mobile.twitter.com/aerocamaras | entropie wrote: | We just imported such a dog from spain from a rescue agency to | find a new owner for the dog in germany (thats the most easy | part, I guess). Otherwise they are euthanized. Its a Podenco mix, | the same type of dog as seen on the pictures. | | I really hope they can rescue them but I fear these dogs will it | not make easy to catch them with a net and even more hard to fly | them out because I bet they will try to free them self. | INTPenis wrote: | This seems like a bad idea. Are they hurting? Can't they just | keep flying in food and water? | | If they fall they're dead, if they get tangled in the net they | might be dead. | poopsmithe wrote: | Yay! I am cheering them on. | | I believe I found Aerocameras youtube channel, which also | contains links to website, Instagram, Facebook, and Linkedin | | https://www.youtube.com/user/dreamsfactorysl | hedgehog wrote: | This appears to be the drone they're using: | | https://www.dji.com/mobile/t20/specs | | I'm not sure how to calculate the max payload, it looks like | maybe 20kg. | jjtheblunt wrote: | steerable dirigible, like the goodyear blimp, with suspended | cable and basket? | gridspy wrote: | It would crash. | | A dirigible requires a temperature difference between the | ambient (surrounding) air and the air inside the lift bladder. | Or the same temperature but different density. | | The heat of the lava would create an area of lower air density | which would result in a significant loss of lift as it crosses. | | I guess you could compensate with a high altitude crossing, but | it still sounds dangerous. | mikestew wrote: | If the heat is intense enough to damage helicopter blades, I | question how well a big bag of gas is going to cope. | NikolaeVarius wrote: | What the hell would this accomplish | sp332 wrote: | Improve range, dwell time, carrying capacity, and noise | levels. | TheDudeMan wrote: | Why not leave them there and continue to feed and water them? | onychomys wrote: | The eruption is continuing and is often quite severe, I assume | there's no guarantee that the place they are will stay safe for | long. | ClosedPistachio wrote: | https://archive.md/fjkXQ | sergiotapia wrote: | Is a helicopter out of the question? | vient wrote: | Have you opened the link? | | > Helicopters are banned from flying to the area because of hot | gas that can damage their rotors. | waynesonfire wrote: | "What's the matter, Colonel Sandurz? Chicken?" | consumer451 wrote: | Which is not quite accurate. AFAIK, the problem is that the | tiny particles quickly destroy the turbine engines, not the | rotor itself. | fencepost wrote: | Which makes me wonder about the feasibility of a drone with | flight powered by hydrogen peroxide rather than electric | motors...... | | Little single-person helicopters powered with 85% H2O2 and | a silver catalyst cropped up as a thing back in 2010, but | the company in question appears to be gone now. | tweedledee wrote: | I'm sure the tiny particles would damage the rotors as | well. Even rain is bad enough. | gridspy wrote: | Probably the reporter assumes most people consider the | whole "spinny thing that keeps helicopter in air" package | to be one thing. Turbine, rotor and all. | zardo wrote: | Or the reporter and editor both don't know much about | helicopters, or don't consider the details of why they | can't fly to be worth spending their time on. | [deleted] | [deleted] | JshWright wrote: | If they have been dropping food from drones, why have they been | "eating very little"? Couldn't they just drop more food...? | cmcaine wrote: | Dogs often eat a lot less when they are stressed, though | usually not so little or for so long that they get emaciated. | bjornsing wrote: | Agree. Seems like a much safer bet. | vorpalhex wrote: | Obviously a last ditch rescue attempt, which vindicates the | untested methodology that we might otherwise be critical of. | | Also rather faith restoring that so many people are attempting to | save these animals at cost to themselves. | jagger27 wrote: | This language reminds me of the infamous Thai cave rescue. Look | how public opinion turned on Elon in that instance. | | There are a lot of differences here, of course. | wavefunction wrote: | Didn't public opinion swing against Elon Musk for trying to | insert himself into an already on-going rescue and then | called one of the men who did rescue the kids a 'pedo-guy'? | That's something I'd expect from a 13 year old on xbox live. | Hokusai wrote: | That exactly. People were disgusted by the attention grab | and the lack of respect for people risking their lives. | 'I'm a billionaire, look at me!' syndrome. | jacquesm wrote: | Are. Not were. The fact that we see this still being | mentioned is a pretty good testimony to how utterly tone | deaf Musk was when he did that. | happytiger wrote: | That's an astute point. | zionic wrote: | > one of the men who did rescue the kids a 'pedo-guy'? | | AFAIK it was a consultant, who advised the actual divers, | who first told elon to "shove his sub up his ass". | | Immaturity all around. | aaron695 wrote: | > and then called one of the men who did rescue the kids a | 'pedo-guy' | | Absolutely not. | | It was in response to the backlash, complicated, and | clearly Elon wasn't doing anything for PR. He's smart and | has a smart team, he knew if he killed the kids it'd hurt | him an order of magnitude more than saving them. The fact | one person died in the rescue was not unfortunate, it was | expected, getting every kid out alive was unexpected. | | "The subject of Musk's tweet, Vernon Unsworth, had slammed | the tech leader's efforts to aid in the cave rescue by | building a miniature submarine, calling it a "PR stunt" in | an interview with CNN." (CNN lied about Unsworth calling it | a "PR stunt", FWIW) | | People are so mentally ill they can't even remember their | own lives anymore. It's all on the record in Google, but I | guess no one cares about the fidelity of their own past. | | These drone operators will get fucked if they drop the | dogs. Because people are cunts and want someone to hurt. | That's the Twitter way, always ends up a lynch mob. The | media has always done this, but Twitter refined it to a | speedy art with no recovery, pre-internet it was cyclic at | least. | 323 wrote: | > Also rather faith restoring that so many people are | attempting to save these animals at cost to themselves. | | You're a bit naive. | | They will easily be able to raise $200k on a GoFundMe like | thing. They will also gain massive social networks followings | and be invited to leading podcasts and TV shows to talk about | their heroism. | | All with minimal investment and zero personal and reputational | risk, nobody will blame them if they fail. | sushisource wrote: | To contrast, I think maybe you're being a bit overly cynical. | What evidence is there of that happening? Even if they did, | is that such a bad thing? Can the guy not want to both save | the dogs and make a cool video? They're not mutually | exclusive. | 323 wrote: | I once read an article which was about how we are willing | to spend thousands to save one particular dog, or one | particular injured bird, instead of donating that money to | "animal habitat preservation" or something similar which | will save thousands of diverse animals. | | And then there's the whole industrial farm-animal raising | thing, where billions of animals are systematically | tortured. But nobody cares, because it's not a particular | animal in a particular situation that we can stand behind | and do cool saving off to show our "humanity". | crate_barre wrote: | We would do this for anyone honestly, it's not just dogs. | That's tough to see. My heart isn't handling this well | and I just heard about it. | | I hope the net is very big, they'd have to do dry runs | with the net with the food in it, get them used to going | into the net for the food. The hard part is going to be | (well every part is hard), but if both dogs come into the | net, that's going to be a failed attempt. | | Sadly I think they may only get one dog out, unless the | dogs have different sleeping patterns, grab the awake | one. I have no idea, this is heart breaking. | | Maybe send a huge net with 4 drones to ensure if both | dogs come in, they can carry the load out. | | If they pull it off, take all the free marketing you can | eat. | onychomys wrote: | I mean, we'd obviously do it for people. I'm not sure | we'd do it for many other animals, though. | sushisource wrote: | People act irrationally when it comes to their feelings | on preserving life. Human or animal. | | I think it's pretty lame to say "Well, we shouldn't save | one particular being because we're not maximally saving | the most beings!". | | Accept what we can get, and work with that. Don't let the | perfect be the enemy of the good. | exporectomy wrote: | It's not clear that many of these efforts are good at | all. A classic example is feeding stray cats. That just | increases the carrying capacity so you're creating more | stray cats and even more will be hungry. | | Exterminate cows to prevent cow suffering? Or farm them | to maximize their population? | sushisource wrote: | I mean that's fair, but we're talking about airlifting | some poor dogs with a cool drone, not exactly a common | thing that will lead to long term problems. | nickff wrote: | > _"...billions of animals are systematically tortured. | But nobody cares... "_ | | Many people do care, and show it in various ways, from | paying extra for free-range eggs, to going vegetarian or | vegan. I agree with the other commenter that you're being | overly cynical. | oblak wrote: | You're right but it doesn't really matter in the grand | scheme of things, though. | | For every vegetarian, vegan, or anyone just willing to | scale down, there are hundreds who would happily consume | more of that sweet subsidized meat, even if it kills | them. | | Sorry for the rant | munificent wrote: | You may discover one day that there is no "grand scheme | of things", no final day of reckoning when all of | humanity is tallied up to decide once and for all if | we're a Good or Bad species. | | It's just individuals doing what they can with what they | have. | oblak wrote: | Well, I didn't mean it as some kind of grand cosmic | spiritual picture or anything. Frankly, I am not sure | what made you believe that. | | In any case, what I meant was that while individual | efforts matter, they're dwarfed by de facto policy, | formal or not. And, implicitly, that I am more than a | tiny bit annoyed by people who desperately try to offset | anyone's efforts just because they can. Consume, consume, | consume. As being able is a justification enough in | itself. | nickff wrote: | You said that efforts to relieve the plight of animals _" | doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things"_, | but I disagree with you, as helping one animal is | meaningful. I don't understand how you can believe that | animals as a whole deserve better without also believing | that each animal deserves better. | | You now brought up a separate issue, which seems to be | rooted in a philosophical disagreement. If you think the | 'desperate consumers' are causing harm, I invite you to | convince them to change their ways. As an incrementalist, | I see each small improvement as virtuous. | thewakalix wrote: | Perhaps this is "scope insensitivity". | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_neglect | mike_d wrote: | > And then there's the whole industrial farm-animal | raising thing | | Huge difference between a pet that has developed human | companionship bonds over thousands of years and a chicken | or a cow that would be extinct had it not been delicious. | oblak wrote: | You're right. I've been thinking how many animals, not | just birds, have been killed so that I can provide the | birds that come by our window with sunflower, pumpkin or | some other kind of seed. | | Yes, I am fucking hypocrite. | s1artibartfast wrote: | Just because the act is irrational or sub-optimal does | not mean it is insincere. | | In many respects, the "rational" response would be to | shoot the dogs with a rifle and donate the rescue funds | to an animal shelter. | mike_d wrote: | The company has posted to social media asking people and news | media to stop trying to contact them and their employees so | they can focus on preparing for the rescue. | | I don't think money or fame is the motivation here. | [deleted] | [deleted] | voz_ wrote: | What a wildly toxic reply. Are you really insinuating that | people are saving poor trapped animals due to some selfish | motivation? Is this how you see the world? If so, I'd rather | be what you call "Naive". | 323 wrote: | It's worse. There's a whole industry on Facebook/YouTube of | people who "save dogs stuck in cement" which they put into | that situation, and the videos get tens of millions of | views. | | https://www.four-paws.org/our-stories/publications- | guides/fa... | | https://dogtime.com/advocacy/79431-fake-dog-rescue-videos | crate_barre wrote: | I really don't think this is that, and I'm the most | cynical bastard on HN. | kodah wrote: | This rhetoric reminds me of the cynicism that a lot of, | especially, environmental activists have. There are a lot of | ways to make change. If you can prove that a drone can carry | a dog out of a very hazardous environment then it's useful as | our environment gets universally more hazardous. You're also | casting shade on raising money or publicity -- my question to | you: what major problem can be solved without isolated public | examples and money? | | Last, I'm fairly certain calling folks naive is against the | HN guidelines. | 323 wrote: | > my question to you: what major problem can be solved | without isolated public examples and money | | I'm pretty sure the things Bill Gates foundation does are | not about isolated public examples - they evaluate | proposals based on impact, measured in lives saved, and not | in heart warming individual saves. Sterile stuff like | providing anti-mosquito bed nets which don't make you tear | up. | kodah wrote: | Right, providing a cheap mosquito bed is a little easier | to go mass production with than being able to use drones | as an emergency recovery vehicle. The latter requires the | right motivation and the right (hopeless) risk profile. | The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation also absolutely | does a lot of advertising and interviews which are aimed | at winning hearts and minds about their work. | kadabra9 wrote: | I bet you're a lot of fun at parties. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-10-19 23:00 UTC)