[HN Gopher] N.I.N.A. - Nighttime Imaging 'N' Astronomy
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       N.I.N.A. - Nighttime Imaging 'N' Astronomy
        
       Author : amarsahinovic
       Score  : 60 points
       Date   : 2021-10-23 17:34 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (nighttime-imaging.eu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (nighttime-imaging.eu)
        
       | dylan604 wrote:
       | I love the fact that we have so much available at our disposal
       | now to make this kind of thing possible. The old days of manual
       | steering to keep the object center over the course of multiple
       | nights just to get a single image can now be done in a single
       | night with equipment that fits in the back of an SUV. Much thanks
       | to people that build tools like this and PHD!
       | 
       | My retirement dream is to do this all the time. I fall prone to
       | the traditional amateur astronomer's delima of having free time
       | available to go to a dark sky location and the weather is bad, or
       | be totally slammed with gorgeous viewing conditions.
        
       | throw0101a wrote:
       | For a pre-made hardware appliance/solution see Stellina:
       | 
       | * https://vaonis.com/stellina
       | 
       | * https://www.astrobiscuit.com/stellina-review
       | 
       | * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_AS0R4x_cE
        
       | crazydoggers wrote:
       | This looks pretty cool. Anyone have any experience with it? Used
       | to use Backyard EOS to control my canon for timed exposures.
       | 
       | Edit: In case anyone is interested here's a couple images I took
       | with my 9.5 inch scope. The globular cluster required stacking
       | many exposures. The double star is not color enhanced or
       | anything, that's how it looks through the eye piece.
       | 
       | https://astrob.in/257816/0/
       | 
       | https://astrob.in/257435/0/
       | 
       | https://astrob.in/256165/0/
        
       | joshspankit wrote:
       | Looks well thought out and powerful to use.
       | 
       | The page does, however, fall prey to a common issue among HN
       | submissions:
       | 
       | For someone who is not already an expert, _and_ who does not know
       | the rest of the pieces required: what do they need to know /have
       | to get their first successful use?
       | 
       | I'm vaguely guessing that someone needs a camera that can keep
       | the shutter open, some type of servos to turn the camera?, and a
       | laptop running next to it all night (which implies you also need
       | necessary cables, extra battery power, and waterproof bags just
       | in case)?
        
         | crazydoggers wrote:
         | I think the issue is that this software really probably targets
         | someone already pretty advanced in the hobby. If you're just
         | stepping in, this software will probably be overkill.
         | 
         | You can start doing astrophotography with nothing more than a
         | nice camera with a tripod and a remote shutter control for long
         | exposures. You can get great views of the Milky Way and some
         | brighter nebulas that way. If you want longer exposures then
         | obviously you'll need a mount that can track the earths
         | rotation.
         | 
         | If you're looking to image what are called "deep sky" objects,
         | then that's when you'll need something like this software and
         | probably a telescope, along with a mount that can track the
         | movement of the earth with very high precision. Lots of deep
         | sky objects require multiple exposures from a larger telescope
         | that can capture lots of light, which are then stacked. The
         | stacking requires lining up the star field, so software is a
         | must.
         | 
         | Another use for software like this is doing amateur astronomy
         | work. For example taking multiple basic images of galaxies
         | every night in order to spot a supernova.
        
           | joshspankit wrote:
           | Even your reply would be a big help on that page.
           | 
           | Personally, I like to use the best tools even if they are
           | _well_ outside my current skillset (diving in to early
           | Photoshop was overkill to recolour images and took me dozens
           | of hours to start to learn, but working with it paid off many
           | times over the years).
           | 
           | Sounds like the most efficient path is:
           | 
           | 1. Nice camera with long exposure via remote shutter: Take
           | photos of stars / milky way / some nebulas
           | 
           | 2. Add tripod and mount to automatically move the camera that
           | can be optionally controlled via some smart device: Adds the
           | ability to see more nebulas, and focus on objects for longer
           | (meaning they show up brighter, with more detail)
           | 
           | 3. Add software and maybe a telescope that can connect to the
           | camera + mount: Adds the ability to capture things not
           | normally visible, and really tune in to the details
           | 
           | Is that right?
        
             | crazydoggers wrote:
             | Pretty much. Definitely get the tripod right at the
             | beginning. You can get some nice and very portable ones for
             | not much money, and with any night photography if you want
             | halfway decent shots, it's a must.
             | 
             | And depending on how into it you get, you might not even
             | bother with a mount for a camera. If you end up going the
             | telescope route you'll want a good equatorial mount for
             | that, and typically the camera will attach directly to the
             | telescope.
             | 
             | And speaking of mounts, for astrophotography, an equatorial
             | mount is a must. It rotates along the earths axis, so it
             | can keep the image orientation correct. If you get a mount
             | that moves up/down left/right (they call that alt/azimuth)
             | then your image will rotate as the night progresses.
             | 
             | For learning, there's also no better place than the cloudy
             | nights forums in my opinion:
             | 
             | https://www.cloudynights.com/
             | 
             | edit: dylans comment is also really good and tracks with my
             | experiences as well
        
               | samstave wrote:
               | Also, garage sales for tripods.
               | 
               | I got a collection of ~30 tripods at a garage sale for
               | $10 for the lot.
               | 
               | Some really really cool tripods - but I dont really do
               | photography I put my houseplants on them/
               | 
               | https://imgur.com/gallery/l4cwHyp
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | One thing I'd also suggest is rent, rent, rent. You can
               | rent so many different camera bodies and lenses, that
               | you'd be silly to not try out different things before
               | buying. You can even rent modified camera bodies that
               | have the IR filters removed specifically for astro stuff.
               | 
               | Before buying a telescope, attend star parties. People
               | will bring out their gear and welcome you to chat and
               | view through their gear. You'll start to see the
               | differences in telescope types and their pros/cons.
               | Astronomy was built on the shoulders of giants, so you
               | can take advantage of that as well.
               | 
               | +1000 for cloudynights website
        
         | monkmartinez wrote:
         | I am aware of Astrophotography on a limited/thats a thing basis
         | and would like to give it a go someday. That said, I think its
         | pretty self-explanatory that you will need some kind of imaging
         | capturing device as a first step to even have interest in this
         | project. The documentation is on the home page...
         | :https://nighttime-imaging.eu/docs/master/site/requirements/
         | 
         | Not to be too snide, but I highly doubt you'll need a
         | waterproof bag if you are trying to take images of Space at
         | night... Kinda hard to see through clouds.
        
           | ksaj wrote:
           | Don't forget about dew.
        
             | crazydoggers wrote:
             | Dew can definitely be a problem depending on location and
             | weather. Dew shields and heaters for lenses or scopes can
             | sometimes be required. It doesn't need to be cloudy for dew
             | to be an issue.
        
           | joshspankit wrote:
           | Aha, then your answer to "if you don't already know, then how
           | do you learn?" is "you should just already know" / "use
           | common sense". Respectfully, that is quite unhelpful.
           | 
           | I was thinking a waterproof bag in case you set up and a
           | storm rolls in and you have to pack up then get back to
           | shelter. _My_ common sense says be prepared because you don't
           | even want expensive gear to get wet while being transported.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Anyone doing astrophotography has already been watching the
             | forecast for days in advance. There's not really going to
             | be something rolling in they didn't anticipate, unless
             | you're really planning for it.
             | 
             | Depending on where you are and the type of weather you
             | have, a storm rolling through could be the best thing. I'm
             | in Texas, and my favorite spot to go is a place 4.5 hours
             | away. If you want to view things around the center of the
             | Milky Way, you'll need to be viewing during the summer.
             | Texas and summer don't make for friendly viewing
             | conditions. However, if you catch one of those
             | thunderstorms that blows through in half an hour or so,
             | they can clear the air so that you have much better
             | conditions after. You just gotta time it right!
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | >what do they need to know/have to get their first successful
         | use?
         | 
         | Ah, the age old question: how long is a piece of string?
         | 
         | The question you pose is best answered by more questions.
         | 
         | What do you want to do? Wide angle full sky type imagery (think
         | full night sky with Milky Way tracing across the image)?
         | Planetary images (I'd suggest not starting here)? Deep Sky
         | Objects (nebulae, galaxies, star clusters, etc)? Each one of
         | those requires different equipment.
         | 
         | Wide angle full sky stuff can be done with a tripod and a
         | camera. After that, you will need gear that can start
         | "tracking" the sky. Basically, a method to counter act the
         | rotation of the earth. Many ways of achieving this for just
         | mounting a camera to a tripod.
         | 
         | Say you want to go further, you'll start looking at telescopes.
         | Which telescope depends on what you want to image. Now that you
         | have a telescope, you'll need a mount. I'd highly suggest an
         | equitorial mount.
         | 
         | Now you need a camera to mount to that scope. Again many
         | options exist. You can get a mount that allows you to hold your
         | mobile phone next to an eyepiece. Works great for
         | planetary/moon shots as they are bright enough a long exposure
         | is not necessary. If you want to use a DSLR you already have,
         | you'll need some method of connecting it to the telescope
         | usually with a t-adapter. It connects to your camera like a
         | lens, then you slide it in place of the eyepiece. Now your
         | telescope is your lens.
         | 
         | All of sudden, you start realizing that your mount and motors
         | just are not accurate enough, so now you want to start doing
         | guided imaging. Oh boy, now you need a smaller telescope for
         | your telescope. That new scope will need it's own camera.
         | Depending on where you're going, you can get a new camera that
         | is also a guider or one that needs to be plugged into a laptop
         | for control. Oh, so you'll need a laptop you don't mind being
         | out all night and susceptible to dew etc.
         | 
         | Once you have your guide scope being guided by something,
         | you'll get to start learning about stacking. Instead of taking
         | a single exposure for 60 minutes, you can take 60 one minute
         | exposures. Then there's more software that allows you to take
         | your stacks and align/process them.
         | 
         | Okay, so now you have all of this equipment to take great
         | images. You'll need a way to transport it. Great, put it in the
         | SUV. Now, your schedule will need to align. Certain nights are
         | better for imaging than others. Full moons are the wrong time
         | for viewing anything but the moon. Great, shift your schedule
         | for new moons. Perfect there's one coming up, but the Mrs has
         | already made dinner plans with someone you may or may not care
         | about, but you won't be using your gear that night. A free
         | weekend lines up with a new moon and you've received permission
         | from the Mrs to go play. Oops, its cloudy AF, and you're left
         | dreaming once again about the imagary you'll someday be able to
         | take.
         | 
         | I love my hobby enough to be that cynical.
         | 
         | Edit: I always focus on the tech gear, but there's some other
         | basics need too. As many red filters as you can find.
         | Flashlights with red filters are a must. Lots of headlamps now
         | come with red LEDs as an option. Red filter your laptop screen
         | whether with actual filter or an app that changes the screen
         | tone. Warm clothes. Because of heat distortion in the
         | atmosphere, lots of good viewing during winter. Winter gets
         | cold, and it's never as cold as when you're trying to achieve
         | focus with 10 little blocks of ice at the end of your hands.
         | Also, be aware of the car you are driving. Can you turn the
         | headlights off when the car is on? You'll be tempted to sit in
         | the car with the heater running, but some cars always have
         | running lights that you cannot turn off. Also, check you car's
         | interior lights. If you need to keep running back to the car,
         | that interior light coming on/off will become annoying. If not
         | annoying to you, anyone else imaging that night will start to
         | get peeved at you.
         | 
         | The other thing I'd suggest is friends to take with you.
         | Sharing the experience is so much more rewarding. If you have
         | no friends, at least not interested in staying up all night in
         | remote locations, then find star parties. Get involved with
         | local groups. It's easy to get defeated, but going to meetings
         | and chatting with others helps keep you excited about it.
        
           | JPLeRouzic wrote:
           | Thanks for writing this, this is hilarious and so true!
        
           | joshspankit wrote:
           | I went on the journey of this comment and fully respect your
           | loving cynicism.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Thanks. I really do love this stuff, but I am constantly
             | frustrated by how rarely I get to do it. I sold my car at
             | the beginning of the pandemic, and while it made financial
             | sense, I regretted not being able to go out while that was
             | pretty much the perfect thing to do during the pandemic.
             | Going outside with fresh air and nobody around because
             | there's very few freaks to be wanting to do this.
             | 
             | It's definitely a love/love/hate/love type of hobby.
        
       | madaxe_again wrote:
       | I would love a viable F/OSS alternative to SGPro, as it's pretty
       | much the only show in town when it comes to fire and forget
       | capture sessions, and I'm too busy in the day to stay up all
       | night nursing telescopes - I rely on it handling everything from
       | focus to acquisition to guiding to some control, including
       | exceptions such as weather - and will therefore do my best to
       | find the time to contribute to this project.
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-23 23:00 UTC)