[HN Gopher] Kicad 6: new feature review for open source EDA tool
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Kicad 6: new feature review for open source EDA tool
Author : altrus
Score : 83 points
Date : 2021-10-27 20:09 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (techexplorations.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (techexplorations.com)
| topspin wrote:
| S-expression schematics. Nice. There are entire markup
| disciplines that probably should have just been s-expressions and
| saved a few billion people hours.
| prionassembly wrote:
| When I read "EDA" I think "exploratory data analysis".
| fullstop wrote:
| I used KiCad 5 design some PCBs which are being shipped to me
| now. I've never done this before, and it was a fantastic
| experience after I went through a few tutorials on how to
| actually use it. I look forward to using KiCad 6!
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| This should be a good release, although this particular article
| could probably be edited down to 50% of its size without losing
| any information :-).
|
| One of the things that KiCAD is doing to making a legitimate open
| framework for eCAD design. Not surprisingly, back in the 80's
| when the "CAD Framework Initiative" started up and everyone was
| going to be able to mix and match CAD components a bunch of CAD
| vendors got scared and inundated the standards effort with people
| whose job was to derail the effort. They were successful.
|
| In the years following, any time a CAD package that was "free" or
| low price became reasonably competitive, one of the existing CAD
| vendors would buy out the developers and quietly smother it or
| turn it into a feeder for their "real" product.
|
| That KiCAD has lasted this long is pretty cool. I suspect it has
| enough momentum that it cannot be stopped now but I'm still
| expecting interference from the big CAD vendor types.
| taf2 wrote:
| "although this particular article could probably be edited down
| to 50% of its size without losing any information :-)."
|
| Reminds of me of the time a friend and I were working on copy
| for a marketing site (we're both engineers) and we started out
| with a long sentence and kept removing words until we had just
| one word... like "box" or "apple" or something like that when
| originally it was like as long as my comment...
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| When I was writing a column for JavaWorld I had an editor who
| was great, she would mark up my column with things like "You
| can strike this whole paragraph, we get it already." She was
| really awesome to work with.
| xondono wrote:
| You're seeing too much conspiracies.
|
| CAD is hard, and it's very hard to displace the incumbents, for
| the same reason that is hard to change programming languages,
| people have too much tied up in the old option.
|
| Most of the free/open source alternatives were built by part
| providers (Mouser, Farnell,..). The objective was clear, if
| your CAD has direct links to your site, this will probably make
| you the default provider. It was a good plan, until they
| realized how hard CAD really is. After burning tones of cash,
| they sold them for pennies on the dollar to the only people
| that wanted them, companies like Autodesk that think they can
| make them financially viable.
|
| I've been waiting for this release for quite some time, KiCAD
| is powerful enough, but I found KiCAD 5 very non-ergonomic, and
| supposedly KiCAD 6 has a better UI.
| zibzab wrote:
| I think kicad 5 was meant to fix the library mess while kicad
| 6 is supposed to focus on UX.
|
| It was sold to me as "what blender did last time", which is
| music to my ears.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| I think the simpler explanation is that good PCB CAD tools are
| extremely difficult and require a lot of developer effort.
|
| KiCAD is very good for an open-source tool that can produce
| basic PCBs. However, modern paid CAD tools are on a different
| level entirely. The differences may not be obvious for simple
| boards with low speed connections, but it's a world of
| difference to use one of the high end CAD tools on a complex
| board with high speed traces.
|
| KiCAD has recently reached a point where I feel like I can
| execute most of the designs I want with enough effort
| expenditure, but the paid tools still make certain tasks much
| faster and easier.
| lmilcin wrote:
| I am amateur EE. My boards aren't very complicated but with
| exception of RF stuff (which I just don't understand) contain
| most of the interesting stuff: typically one or more STM32s
| below 200MHz, some flash, sensors, external interfaces like
| USB, display, some high power (>20A) stuff, some very
| sensitive analog stuff, etc. I have even recently started
| including my own SMPS (for lower power things).
|
| Kicad is all I need and probably will ever need.
|
| I get that better tools could help do some stuff but,
| realistically, great majority of work is outside of kicad
| (like learning, searching for parts, debugging, etc.) Even
| within kicad I spent most of the time thinking and tinkering
| with the schematics. So, according to Amdahl's law, there is
| very little I can gain upgrading Kicad to something else
| _assuming_ it actually could make me more productive.
|
| If you are pro and you can do that other stuff quickly and
| efficiently and EDA is majority of your work then, maybe the
| calculation is different. But I just can't imagine an amateur
| could benefit a lot.
| amelius wrote:
| Do you use Spice from within Kicad?
| lmilcin wrote:
| No, I don't use Spice at all.
|
| I am calculating stuff by hand and/or building prototypes
| (especially when I can't calculate). Sometimes I use
| Matlab to visualize something I have calculated.
| dang wrote:
| Some past threads, for the curious:
|
| _Real-time Netlisting in KiCad [video]_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27367414 - June 2021 (27
| comments)
|
| _Making a Timelapse of your PCB design in KiCad_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22355847 - Feb 2020 (9
| comments)
|
| _KiCad Joins Linux Foundation to Advance Electronic Design
| Automation_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21619542 - Nov
| 2019 (49 comments)
|
| _Why open hardware needs open software_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21388220 - Oct 2019 (29
| comments)
|
| _KiCad 5.1.0_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19456152 -
| March 2019 (35 comments)
|
| _Start with Kicad - Schematic Diagram_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18969124 - Jan 2019 (2
| comments)
|
| _KiCad 5 - A New Generation_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17594677 - July 2018 (2
| comments)
|
| _Convert your KiCAD boards into nice looking 2D pinout diagrams_
| - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14122958 - April 2017 (1
| comment)
|
| _How to translate your Eagle libraries to KiCad_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13573567 - Feb 2017 (1
| comment)
|
| _KiCad: A commitment to freedom_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12713089 - Oct 2016 (83
| comments)
|
| _Tutorial On Designing /Building A PCB (Using FOSS)_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11670498 - May 2016 (41
| comments)
|
| _KiCad 4.0.0 is Out_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10676514 - Dec 2015 (37
| comments)
|
| _Design for Assembly in KiCad_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8399815 - Oct 2014 (11
| comments)
|
| _KiCad videos released_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8153324 - Aug 2014 (10
| comments)
|
| _KiCAD a Free and Open Source EDA Tool_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=315852 - Sept 2008 (1
| comment)
| rkagerer wrote:
| I tried KiCAD out a few years ago but abandoned it because you
| couldn't move components around easily without breaking the
| connected wires. IIRC there was "G" shortcut to do it but the
| pathing was so poor as to not be worthwhile.
|
| Has that gotten better in recent versions and it is worth another
| go?
| zbrozek wrote:
| Huh, interesting. I disable that feature in Altium because I
| _always_ want to break the connections when moving components.
| I will sometimes use the move-without-break tool in LTspice for
| two-terminal parts just to slide them in one direction a little
| bit to avoid text collisions.
| Animats wrote:
| I was a KiCAD user until they dropped support for the auto-
| router. They apparently had some dispute with the developer of
| the auto-router, and took out auto-router integration. (Yeah,
| there's some hack to make it still work, maybe.)
|
| I have an old board I'd like to revise slightly, but it's too
| much work and risk to convert to the new "interactive" (i.e.
| manual) routing system.
| amelius wrote:
| I've never worked with the auto-router, but personally I think
| placement is giving me the most headaches.
| contingencies wrote:
| 1. Learn to carefully structure schematics as hierarchical
| sheets. 2. Use the _replicate-layout_ plugin to duplicate
| schematic sheet layout across multiple instances. 3. Get a
| graphics tablet.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| I don't think he was talking about schematic view. He is
| talking about component placement on the PCB.
| contingencies wrote:
| The two are linked. If you structure schematics suitably,
| you can deduplicate layout (component placement). Another
| tip is to have two large screens so you can
| simultaneously navigate both layout and schematic. When
| you click a component in either, the other is
| highlighted. This can be a big help during layout.
| Finally, be aware of right click | _Select | Items in
| same hierarchical sheet_.
| amelius wrote:
| Thanks for the tip. I was avoiding hierarchical
| schematics because my version of KiCAD doesn't seem to
| implement the concept very well. I often ended up with
| strange inconsistencies, so I gave up. I suppose this is
| better in newer KiCAD versions (?)
|
| How I do placement now: deleting part of my schematics,
| then copying the remaining components to the PCB layout,
| then undoing to get my schematics back, delete another
| part of the schematics, etc.
|
| Regarding a graphics tablet: I've thought about it, but
| then I miss the scroll-wheel which is absolutely
| necessary for zooming in/out. Are there tablets with
| scroll wheels?
| folmar wrote:
| The expensive as hell "default" alternative, Altium Designer,
| has autoplacer to comlement the autorouter, and it usually
| works really nicely.
| formerly_proven wrote:
| As you say, it's interactive (with push and shove routing), not
| manual. Manual routing is what e.g. EAGLE had for most of its
| life, where you have to draw every single piece of a trace
| manually and every conflict meant removing (ripping up) the
| already routed tracks.
| roland35 wrote:
| Isn't there still the follow-me router? I find that more
| convenient than auto routing since I generally have an idea of
| where I want to route, but it's nice having to computer work
| out the details
| the-dude wrote:
| Was the autorouter ever embedded into KiCAD?
|
| According to this : https://freerouting.org/freerouting/using-
| with-kicad it should still work as it did long time ago.
|
| What I do remember is that the author of freerouting.org was
| harassed by his (former?) employer.
| zibzab wrote:
| I have manufactured a lot of boards with kicad, and have used
| the auto router exactly once.
|
| You can still use the old auto router, you just have to do it
| manually (export, route, import).
| amelius wrote:
| Not to distract from the topic, but I was just wondering: how is
| HorizonEDA doing these days? Can KiCAD learn from this project?
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23062174
| rutierut wrote:
| KiCAD 5 was the point where it got good enough for the people
| wanting to switch to do so. Let's hope this release makes people
| not looking to switch _want_ to so.
|
| Some of the improvements look universally great (especially sweet
| & simple ones like the ratsnest improvement) others will slightly
| alienate the current users but hopefully make the program feel
| more familiar to first time users.
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