[HN Gopher] Fascine Mattresses: Basketry Gone Wild ___________________________________________________________________ Fascine Mattresses: Basketry Gone Wild Author : ggoo Score : 111 points Date : 2021-11-04 16:22 UTC (6 hours ago) (HTM) web link (solar.lowtechmagazine.com) (TXT) w3m dump (solar.lowtechmagazine.com) | tromp wrote: | > Between 1954 and 1967, during works on the rivers throughout | the country, they sank 1,200,000 km2 fascine mattresses to the | bottom. | | I have trouble squaring that with all of the Netherlands | measuring only 41,543 km2, with rivers making up only a tiny | fraction of that. | | Perhaps conversion from 1,200,000,000 m2 was off by a factor of | 1000, and they mean 1,200 km2 ? | lowtechmagazine wrote: | Thanks for spotting the mistake. km2 should be m2. | | Source: | https://repository.tudelft.nl/islandora/object/uuid:1ed44c19... | page 17 | notorandit wrote: | Dutch Genius at work. | vcdimension wrote: | Seems to me at first glance that this could make for a great | carbon offsetting scheme | atourgates wrote: | This is fascinating. Worth noting that there appear to be still | companies doing this today: | https://www.vanaalsburgbv.nl/en/zinkstuk/ | nielsbot wrote: | Meta: Interesting that a site called "low tech magazine" also | appears to use "low tech" black/white dithered images... But I | imagine it's a style choice. | ashtonbaker wrote: | I think they do it to reduce image size and therefore power | consumption. Their server is solar powered. | isolli wrote: | Indeed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29067118 | abeppu wrote: | > Willow wood becomes rock-hard underwater and almost doesn't | deteriorate. Research in the late 1960s showed that most fascine | mattresses submerged for more than 100 years -- some dating from | the early 1820s -- remained intact. | | > Unlike most other tree species, willow tolerates saltwater and | (temporarily) wet feet. As such, the coppice plantations could | use land that was not suitable for agriculture. | | > On impoverished soils, the Dutch planted alder trees between | the willow trees. The falling leaves of the alder fertilised the | soils and increased the lifespan and production of the willow | trees. | | Building long-lasting critical infrastructure using locally- | sourced, carbon-negative resources! I have no idea about dykes | specifically but I suspect today someone pitching a public works | project based on woven willow would be laughed at -- and instead | we would insist on pouring some reinforced concrete, using | carbon-intensive cement, and it would begin falling apart from | rusted rebar in 15 years. | Syonyk wrote: | What if we build it out of graphene instead? | | There is an awful lot of knowledge that's been mostly discarded | because it doesn't fit the "modern, industrial, profit-driven | ways of thinking." Some of it is wrong, but an awful lot of it | is simply "not easily to scale with machinery to maximum | profits." Or, in some cases, just no longer considered stylish | (stainless steel vs brass in hospitals being a case of "the new | is literally worse than the old in every way that matters, | while looking new" - the copper in brass is a biocide). | | It's probably worth picking up a printed copy or two of LTM... | modern society is running out of runway awfully fast. | abeppu wrote: | > What if we build it out of graphene instead? | | I think the implication (that carbon negative local materials | are unscalable) is unfair. We haven't built anything huge | with graphene yet and the per-gram costs are still crazy | (e.g. on the order of $100/g). By comparison, this article is | about relatively large-scale projects that we actually did, | decades ago. | | > Between 1954 and 1967, during works on the rivers | throughout the country, they sank 1,200,000 km2 fascine | mattresses to the bottom. | | We're in a context where we simultaneously want to: | | - build and replace infrastructure | | - decrease our carbon footprint and go negative where | possible | | - protect large coastal areas from storm impacts | | - prevent further habitat loss and loss of ecological | diversity | | And more recently we have become aware that sprawling | international supply chains are a liability. | | I think more than just concerns over whether something scales | at maximum profit, we also have too much institutional | inertia. "If we pick different materials, will permitting and | oversight bodies be convinced about safety and longevity | claims? Will workers need to be retrained? Will the planning | process need to change? Better to just do what we've always | done; it's easier." | | To be fair, I suppose I _have_ heard people talk about carbon | sequestration in cross-laminated timber for large buildings. | I have not heard people talk about being able to source that | timber locally, or in a way which is especially beneficial to | the land. | | https://investingnews.com/daily/tech- | investing/nanoscience-i... | oasisbob wrote: | > I suspect today someone pitching a public works project based | on woven willow would be laughed at | | Live fascine bundles and live stakes from willow are commonly | used riparian restoration techniques. | | Less elaborate and smaller, but the technique is still very | much appreciated. | | https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_PLANTMATERIALS/public... | peter_retief wrote: | Reminds me of the Roman cement that lasts for centuries as well. | The Dutch are interesting as they also have a strong agricultural | bent. | wolverine876 wrote: | I was just talking about that with someone. What makes it hold | up? And are we talking about the material used to construct | ancient structures like the Colosseum and aqueducts? | klyrs wrote: | Something about crystal formation in the volcanic ash that | the cement is made from, reacting with the volcanic rock the | aggregate is made from. I'm not going to do it justice by | getting any more specific, so here's an article for layfolk, | and the associated journal article. | | https://www.sciencealert.com/why-2-000-year-old-roman- | concre... | | https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/msa/ammin/article/102/7/143. | .. | ExtraE wrote: | The battery indicator is neat, but it's distracting when it's | covering the whole page. Maybe couple ch of width in a sidebar | would be easier. | Arrath wrote: | Thanks, I had wondered what the two-tone background was for and | didn't notice the battery indicator off to the side. | akamoonknight wrote: | Enjoyable read overall. Always fascinating to see the human | ingenuity involved in problem solving. I might have missed it in | the article, but how do the fascine mattresses do the work of | helping keep back the sea? By breaking up waves before they reach | the shore? | WJW wrote: | They keep the soil of the dike in place, which would erode away | without the "mattress". | pacaro wrote: | The article is light on the actual function of the mattresses, | but my reading is that they served to prevent erosion, and | would prevent dykes and other structures from being undercut | singlow wrote: | So that underwater basket weaving course was not a fluff course | after all? | Guest42 wrote: | I remember that the top person in the math department in | college had transferred from dance because it was too | difficult. | | They always present underwater basket weaving as being easy but | I imagine it'd be quite challenging. | qq4 wrote: | The idea is that underwater basket weaving has no utility in | the real world, not that it is easy. | dylan604 wrote: | I had to drop the class because I couldn't hold my breath | long enough to do much weaving. | Syonyk wrote: | Of course it was! This is onshore basket weaving that's then | floated into position and sunk. Different department. | progre wrote: | For those who, like me, didn't get the joke: | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_basket_weaving ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-11-04 23:00 UTC)