[HN Gopher] The Melancholy of Subculture Society
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The Melancholy of Subculture Society
Author : 0des
Score : 76 points
Date : 2021-11-07 19:28 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.gwern.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.gwern.net)
| PaulHoule wrote:
| This book is an early (and fun) exposition of the "subcultures"
| theory:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pump_House_Gang
| Animats wrote:
| This is worth reading in its entirety. There's a fair amount of
| original thinking, including in the notes at the end.
|
| His big point about subcultures is about scale. Most other
| writers about subcultures focus on behavior or alienation or
| something like that. This author's key point is that subcultures
| form a way to get out of competing with the entire planet.
| dane-pgp wrote:
| I'm glad that the article does mention what the title is a
| reference to, namely "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya", but
| somewhat disappointed that it didn't go completely meta by
| talking about "The melancholy of The Melancholy of Haruhi
| Suzumiya subculture".
| louloulou wrote:
| I wish he had mentioned Haruhi though (not the Haruhi
| subculture). That's the most extreme case of a single mind
| generating the entire world in which they exist, and having to
| keep itself distracted from that fact so it doesn't all come
| crashing down in meaninglessness.
| rossdavidh wrote:
| Interesting and thought-provoking! But, similar to how he
| mentions that the predominance of monogamy in the modern world
| might be a result of cultural evolution, this line from the end
| raises a question:
|
| "Perhaps we should accept gracefully the inevitable sundering of
| 'national' cultures, and learn to operate within a truly
| multicultural world."
|
| Well, maybe...or maybe those few national cultures that persist,
| will find that they can steamroll over the fragmented once-were-
| nations that cannot muster the joint effort to resist them.
| There's a reason large states arose in the first place, to
| displace hunter-gatherer tribes, and it is precisely this. If you
| don't maintain a national culture, you're not going to have
| anyone willing to fight to defend it. Which, if every single
| nation has that happen, maybe that's fine. But if even one
| persists, it will find itself an elephant in a world of mice, who
| wonder why no one else is willing to defend them when they are
| trampled on.
| randomluck040 wrote:
| Isn't the ,,Identity" situation the reason why Afghanistan went
| back to the Taliban the moment the NATO left? I've read[0]
| about it at least and apparently there was no real idea of a
| country called ,,Afghanistan" among the citizens of the
| country.
|
| [0] https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/2021/08/there-no-
| afghanis...
| rks404 wrote:
| I love the concept of this entire site - writing about things and
| revisiting them and linking them. Lots of great stuff to read
| here and an inspiration to write more.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _If someone really prefers their subculture, which gives them
| mental ease and physical health, then what right do the rest have
| to interfere and drag them into the main culture?_
|
| Sure, whatever works for you.
|
| But if you then stay awake at night crying "I'm so alone", are
| chronically depressed and demotivated, you swallow drugs like
| they're candy, and so on, you might want to revisit this
| "whatever new living fad became possible after 100s of thousands
| of year of evolution emphacizing human connection is equally
| valid".
| pieix wrote:
| A subculture is more similar in scale to human societies during
| the majority of those 100s of thousands of years of evolution
| than to the mega/giga scale of modern society.
| dusted wrote:
| I came back to HN just to say how brilliant and insightful a read
| this is.
| md224 wrote:
| > And if we were to take it even further? If we chose a
| subculture that was online, and we never went outside? Then all
| the stress would be gone; if one doesn't walk down the street,
| one isn't bothered by strangers in such close proximity.
|
| I'm not sure how to parse this: is this meant ironically or as a
| genuine endorsement of physical isolation as a way of life?
|
| IMHO, this aspect -- physical isolation -- is the biggest problem
| with the move towards digital subcultures, and I'm not sure how
| it can be solved.
| redisman wrote:
| I think it's just trying to show the thinking pattern of the
| person who finds it alluring
| MrLeap wrote:
| This read resonates with me strongly. Especially that David
| Foster Wallace quote, about the sacrifices to get very good at
| one particular thing.
|
| I suffered stinging indignities at my last job that left me
| reeling. I decided to go all in on the childhood dream as an
| indie game maker. I knew that most fail.
|
| I had reasons to believe that I wouldn't. Complete revulsion with
| company feudalism made it enough.
|
| I'm a year in. My tweets about my progress are in the top 10%
| among indie gamedevs on twitter.. Wishlist heuristics tell me
| that at release, I'll make about minimum wage(*).
|
| The price in hours to get here has been so high that the economic
| calculus screams that I should give up.
|
| The prices to self of the "right" way to survive still seem
| higher.
|
| Hikikomori seem like they jumped out of the boat. They want to
| live, passive in their dream until the tide pulls them under. I
| don't think you can live serenely in the dream without acceptance
| of the tide.
|
| I feel a certain kinship to that, the only difference is that I'm
| still swimming. How could the outcome ever be different though?
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| Wow the way this website opens links in a draggable, pinnable
| pop-over box is dope.
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