[HN Gopher] Show HN: I built a no-BS recipe search engine
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       Show HN: I built a no-BS recipe search engine
        
       Author : milomildus
       Score  : 272 points
       Date   : 2021-11-09 13:41 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (stovetop.app)
 (TXT) w3m dump (stovetop.app)
        
       | igaloly wrote:
       | Which bs there's when searching for recepies?
        
       | throw89vv wrote:
       | What search engine does it use?
        
       | MisterTea wrote:
       | I searched for flan and the first two results were for pumpkin
       | flan and then almond flan but the rest of the recipes were for
       | flank steak.
        
       | named-user wrote:
       | You're gonna get C&D imminently like that other site did.
       | 
       | I can't find the name of it, sorry.
       | 
       | I fully support what you're doing. I am not fussed with someone's
       | back stories about how their great grandmother's auntie's friend
       | had her hair dyed when walking her dog to pick cherries... Blah
       | blah... Just want the recipe and method
       | 
       | But unfortunately... Advert revenues are a thing.
        
         | milomildus wrote:
         | I hope not -- unlike the other site you still have to go to the
         | source to read the recipe, so hopefully this doesn't have an
         | impact on their ad revenue.
        
         | lkbm wrote:
         | This is linking to the websites in question. It's not too
         | different than GWS, except in that it's _not_ linking to any
         | sites that include back stories.
        
       | fortydegrees wrote:
       | Great job! Love the UI. Did you build this from scratch or is it
       | an extended, existing database front-end? The
       | search/filters/sorting would be really useful to generalise as
       | its own package!
        
         | milomildus wrote:
         | Thanks! From scratch -- I think there are quite a few already
         | existing React components / component libraries for table views
         | like this, but I'll think about if there's anything I can
         | generalize.
        
       | whoomp12342 wrote:
       | no bs, yet NYTIMES has a modal popup that you cant unclick....
        
       | charlieb wrote:
       | Is there a way for you to get the nutritional info into this page
       | as well? Sticking to a diet is really hard when you have to
       | scroll through pages and pages of exposition and adds to get
       | macro counts.
        
       | horsawlarway wrote:
       | So, ah... is it just me or is "Maangchi" just entirely faking
       | their reviews?
       | 
       | Toggle that slider up to 5k and it's just them sitting there at
       | ridiculous numbers all pegged at 5 stars.
        
         | brianjlogan wrote:
         | Yeah they must have falsified reviews or the parser is broken.
         | New York Times doesn't even break the first page of results.
         | 
         | Edit: Also they should add a filter for "paywall" recipe sites.
         | I haven't been able to find any of the top recipes as
         | browseable.
        
       | the_arun wrote:
       | Great job! I wish there was a way sort data by columns.
        
       | dadlangia4 wrote:
       | This is awesome, nice work
        
       | anschwa wrote:
       | Looks great!
       | 
       | https://based.cooking/ might be another good source of recipes if
       | you're not already using it.
        
         | twiclo wrote:
         | Based.cooking is great. I have my own instance running on my
         | server. Version controlled recipes are the way of the future
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | For all the borderline-insane things Luke Smith endorses, I'm
         | glad he has at least one decent contribution to the internet.
         | based.cooking should be a model for everyone else trying to
         | take back the internet on their own terms.
        
       | par wrote:
       | The search feature is nice, but I was sad when it took me to the
       | normal recipe page. What I would really love to have is a very
       | concise and succinct view of the recipe itself. Hopefully the
       | next step is smart parsing of the recipe!
        
         | ptrhvns wrote:
         | Well, maybe this tool, or you personally, could pipe the recipe
         | through https://www.justtherecipe.com/.
        
       | snihalani wrote:
       | feature request: link to archive.is url of the ny times link to
       | break paywall bs
        
       | ffumarola wrote:
       | Some thoughts:
       | 
       | 1) Clean up the plural duplicates, e.g. peanut/peanuts,
       | leek/leeks, carrot/carrots, etc.
       | 
       | 2) I've never considered the author, is that common?
       | 
       | 3) Mode to toggle pictures on would help scanning, cooking is
       | very visual
       | 
       | 4) Not simple to design, but some way to have either/or
       | ingredients (e.g. peanuts OR cashews) could be useful
        
         | InfiniteRand wrote:
         | spelling variations are also an issue, like fettuccine vs
         | fettucine, not sure if there's an easy solution for that
        
         | milomildus wrote:
         | I'm currently working on a data structure for ingredients which
         | significantly improves on the current flat list. It should be
         | able to address plural duplicates / locale duplicates / and
         | hierarchy. 4) is a good idea.
         | 
         | The thing I struggle with for pictures is where to put them,
         | but I'll play around with some options. Maybe they can be
         | behind a toggle.
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | You should start considering the author more, cooks you like
         | will probably sell recipes to a variety of publishers and any
         | given publisher's quality is likely to vary _wildly_ at any
         | kind of scale.
        
         | boise wrote:
         | 2) yes. I follow NYT coooking and there are definitely authors
         | I avoid.
        
       | m12k wrote:
       | Great idea! But please read https://www.evanmiller.org/how-not-
       | to-sort-by-average-rating...
        
         | huhtenberg wrote:
         | It shouldn't be sorted by rating to begin with.
         | 
         | If I search for "doughnuts", it's rather unlikely that I'm
         | interested in "Chapssal doughnuts" (top spot), "Pumpkin
         | Doughnuts" (second spot) or even "Gluten-Free Baked Chocolate
         | Doughnuts Recipe" (third spot).
         | 
         | The list should be ordered (somehow, no idea how) by classic or
         | common interpretation of the query first and pushing exotics,
         | varieties and fusion stuff down to the very bottom.
         | 
         | Another one is "sourdough" - "Caesar Salad with Sourdough
         | Croutons" is the top suggestion, followed by "Hard-Boiled Eggs
         | and Parmesan on Toasted Sourdough" and "Radicchio Salad with
         | Sourdough Dressing". Not exactly relevant.
        
           | yissp wrote:
           | Completely unrelated to your point, but I had to check what
           | "sourdough dressing" was. And, yeah, it's a salad dressing
           | with bread blended into it. I've heard of doing that, but
           | kinda want to try it now.
        
           | RattleyCooper wrote:
           | I feel like having 2 separate sections for this would work
           | pretty well. Recipes for making ingredients from scratch vs.
           | recipe for a meal.
        
         | amflare wrote:
         | > Considering only positive and negative ratings (i.e. not a
         | 5-star scale)
         | 
         | Is there anywhere that details the changes necessary to use for
         | other rating scales (such as the 5-star/10-star system)?
        
           | jimmaswell wrote:
           | > Considering only positive and negative ratings (i.e. not a
           | 5-star scale)
           | 
           | I hate this. It feels like part of the internet getting
           | dumbed down.
        
             | Y_Y wrote:
             | Yes, we should dumb up, not down!
        
           | 10000truths wrote:
           | You could just convert the 5-star scale to weighted
           | upvotes/downvotes, like so:                 1 stars = 0.00
           | upvote, 1.00 downvote       2 stars = 0.25 upvote, 0.75
           | downvote       3 stars = 0.50 upvote, 0.50 downvote       4
           | stars = 0.75 upvote, 0.25 downvote       5 stars = 1.00
           | upvote, 0.00 downvote
           | 
           | And then calculate as usual, and then re-map the result of
           | the formula from the [0, 1] interval to the [1, 5] interval.
        
         | milomildus wrote:
         | Ha! Thanks for this. I knew that this must be a solved problem
         | but wasn't searching for the right thing. I'll take a look at
         | implementing a better default sort order.
        
           | MayeulC wrote:
           | For another similar rating system, there's also this one:
           | https://steamdb.info/blog/steamdb-rating/
           | 
           | Not exactly sure how the two compare.
        
             | driscoll42 wrote:
             | He compares it at the bottom of the article:
             | 
             | Compared to Wilson's formula, it's very short, and it's not
             | nearly as difficult to understand the idea behind how it
             | works. One could easily get the question "Why would this
             | random formula give better results than what a very
             | established mathematician came up with?" I can't really
             | answer that, but it would seem a lot of you agree that it
             | does indeed produce better results when rating Steam's
             | games. I can, however, try to give some insight into this.
             | 
             | For one, Wilson's formula isn't really meant to be used
             | quite like this. It takes a rating and the sample size (the
             | number of reviews), and outputs a confidence interval. And
             | a confidence interval basically says that "We are some%
             | sure that the score is between x and y". If you increase
             | the % of how sure you are, the distance between x and y
             | also increases, and vice versa. But to get a single rating,
             | it's not quite okay to just take the lower bound of that
             | interval.
             | 
             | Secondly, because of what was mentioned in the last
             | paragraph, it always gives us a lower rating than the
             | original. This is clearly the incorrect behaviour, as
             | something that just came out and gets a single negative
             | review will be marked as having a score of 0%. Meanwhile,
             | an established terrible game can have 10 positive and 500
             | negative reviews, and it will rank higher. This is also the
             | reason why one of the two rules I listed was that all
             | ratings should be biased towards the average.
             | 
             | Finally, while Wilson's formula probably gives us a more
             | "precise" rating, so to say, it's not necessarily what we
             | want to see. There's a lot of mathematics behind why what
             | it does is correct, while the previously mentioned numbers
             | of 2 and 10 that I picked for my formula were rather
             | arbitrary. Still, I selected them so that the result would
             | also account for the high number of reviews when assigning
             | a good score. It's why you'll probably notice a lot less
             | games with a low review count among the top games than
             | before.
             | 
             | I think that's important because a game that is very
             | popular and very highly rated should be ranked higher than
             | a game that isn't as popular and is also very highly rated.
             | Not because we can be more certain that this rating is
             | indeed correct, but because you, as a random person who has
             | yet to try that game, will more probably like it if a lot
             | of other people have liked it as well -- if it's not a
             | niche game. And I think this aspect is definitely important
             | and should be accounted for when trying to represent an
             | entire game with just a single number.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | You need multiple rating systems for recipes and the lack of
           | that model is why recipe sites are bullshit, and will
           | continue to be bullshit.
           | 
           | A recipe that tastes bad should never be shown to anyone. But
           | if there are two flavorful recipes and one of them has better
           | instructions, then that's the one that should be sorted to
           | the top. My go-to analogy for people being bad at
           | documentation is to compare them to the variation in quality
           | in cooking recipes. That's both a commentary on developer
           | docs and on chef's docs.
           | 
           | I have been reworking a highly rated pie recipe. They have
           | not covered browning the crust. They have made no mention of
           | order and grouping of ingredients. If you follow the recipe
           | literally, you're going to end up with a fluffy mix that
           | won't fit in the pie tin. You're also going to get lumpy
           | spices. That has a rustic appeal, but as the picture does not
           | have lumps, the author is just bad at documentation. In my
           | version, I split the spices so that you get a little texture
           | but most are homogenized. I'm still experimenting with number
           | of eggs. I've had 2 eggs (as in the recipe) taste eggy, and 3
           | eggs (minus a little egg white for the crust) taste fine,
           | depending on how good the emulsion is, and that depends on
           | order.
           | 
           | Most recipes still seem to be built on a model of fear and
           | social barter. Fear that if Aunt Susie figures out Grandma
           | Beth's brownie recipe, then nobody will 'have' to invite
           | Grandma Beth to holidays or at least be excited to see her.
           | If you want brownies then you need Grandma Beth.
        
             | sumtechguy wrote:
             | You are so correct on the order and timing of items.
             | Everyone in my family was trying to make my grandmothers
             | cookies. I was the only one who went over and documented
             | _exactly_ how she made them. Now that she is gone. I have
             | been designated as the only one who  'knows how to make
             | them'. Even though I proclaim loud and clearly and have
             | documented 'you must make them exactly like this or they
             | will not taste the same'. They all seem to want to take
             | short cuts. There are no shortcuts with this one and it
             | _will_ take 2 days. I even gladly show them exactly how to
             | do it. Yet they still fail, because they want to skip
             | steps. If you do not follow along exactly you are doomed.
             | Now I want cookies...
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | And now I want the recipe.
               | 
               | Two days ago please, I want the cookies now.
        
         | lighttower wrote:
         | How does Amazon, a trillion dollar company, not make this
         | solution default!
        
           | leobg wrote:
           | Well, how don't they filter spam reviews? My guess: They earn
           | whenever you buy. And they are a monopoly when it comes to
           | online shopping. So even if you buy crap, you'll buy from
           | them again. If anyone gets blamed, it's going to be the
           | seller. The house always wins.
        
         | lukashrb wrote:
         | Thank you.
        
       | artursapek wrote:
       | I have wanted to build something like this, but the real pain
       | point to solve is recipe blogs are a pain to navigate. They're
       | covered in ads, popups, and the first 50% of the page is some
       | story that nobody wants to read.
       | 
       | What we need is wikipedia for cooking.
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | The problem with that is that recipes are inherently more like
         | blog than Wikipedia articles - they're so personal. Who are you
         | to edit the number of chillies in OJFord's palak paneer, for
         | example?
         | 
         | Wikipedia has a 'first come first stays' policy for
         | British/American spelling - applying that to recipes would be
         | disastrous, giving me the final say on how to make the de facto
         | custard, just because I created the page before anyone else?
        
           | artursapek wrote:
           | Fair points, I'm not saying all of Wiki's policies need to
           | apply. I'm just saying the format and ease of consuming
           | content is good, and there's nothing popular for cooking with
           | those qualities.
        
             | OJFord wrote:
             | Yes, sorry if I seemed too dismissive, I agree and like the
             | idea on the surface, it's just to me what makes the format
             | and ease of consuming Wikipedia good is that there's one
             | page for everything, not a bunch of conflicting entries for
             | the same thing. (Well, any encyclopaedia!)
             | 
             | But you can't achieve that with recipes, because they're
             | not encyclopaedic entries, they're one person's opinion
             | piece on how to make a nice <whatever>, like a blog post.
             | 
             | I suppose the slight flaw in my argument is that you can
             | have competing encyclopaedia publishers - choose your
             | namespace, your single source of truth, within which
             | there's the one entry...
        
               | artursapek wrote:
               | There's probably ways to handle that. Grouping variations
               | together and letting the community rank them for example.
               | It's not a new problem
        
         | dharmab wrote:
         | It's an expensive paid subscription, but the America's Test
         | Kitchen website is basically a professionally maintained
         | cooking information index. The standards of information are
         | much higher than a wiki (they do scientific method testing of
         | every tool, technique and recipe). Unfortunately there is one
         | thing that annoys me, which is that there are full page ads for
         | their other products, even if you are already a subscriber.
        
           | LordAtlas wrote:
           | As an Indian, I've found some of their Indian food recipes on
           | Youtube to be downright terrible.
        
       | whoomp12342 wrote:
       | next level: mining the sites for the content and getting rid of
       | the recipe's life story.
       | 
       | to me, no-bs means ingredients and instructions. Maybe a few
       | pictures of the target meal. thats it.
        
         | radihuq wrote:
         | Interestingly, someone built a recipe app with this narrative
         | and received a ton of backlash online:
         | https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56241653
        
           | cacois wrote:
           | I love how they say the content that users dislike is
           | "relevant to the recipe", rather than admitting its SEO
           | fodder.
        
             | madamelic wrote:
             | It's actually not SEO fodder (necessarily).
             | 
             | Recipes are not copyrightable but if you pair a recipe with
             | a story, the entire deliverable is copyrightable [0]
             | because the recipe becomes a work of expression rather than
             | a rote list.
             | 
             | > In other words, a bare recipe, without literary
             | expression, is not copyrightable
             | 
             | [0]: https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=3741a5c
             | 0-f146....
        
               | cacois wrote:
               | Interesting point, I hadn't considered this.
        
             | boringg wrote:
             | I don't think its SEO fodder I think its to space out the
             | page so you have to scroll through multiple advertisements
             | so they get their revenue.
             | 
             | Either way its total garbage.
        
               | davestephens wrote:
               | Yeah. Screw those guys trying to make a living!
        
               | lelandbatey wrote:
               | I mean, yeah trying to make a living by annoying the snot
               | out of people is a thing that people don't like. It's the
               | "business-model-belle of the ball" at the moment, but
               | that doesn't mean we folks subjected to it have to like
               | it, nor is it somehow "morally wrong" to object to being
               | inconvenienced.
               | 
               | You can try to diminish the real-world confusion and
               | inconvenience of said business model by saying "cmon,
               | it's not that bad, what's the big deal, why not let them
               | make some money, why you gotta be such a stick in the
               | mud?" That does nothing to reduce my or other peoples
               | annoyance and lost time caused by said business model
               | though. It's real, it does waste my time, and your time,
               | and everyone else's time, it does inconvenience us, and
               | it does make it harder to get the information we want.
               | 
               | Because of that, I'm glad to see these other websites
               | arrive to replace blogspam recipe mills. I plan to use
               | websites like http://www.cookingforengineers.com and
               | https://stovetop.app/ search for most all my recipes
               | going forward. Thanks OP for stovetop and thanks to other
               | commenters here for posting more resources for us to use.
        
         | KeithBrink wrote:
         | In addition to the other suggestions, a Firefox extension that
         | does this:
         | 
         | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/recipe-filter
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | You don't have to mine the site at all. There's a schema for
         | the data that basically all cooking sites support if they want
         | SEO
         | https://developers.google.com/search/docs/advanced/structure...
        
           | chaxor wrote:
           | Perhaps I'm dim, but I don't understand how that means you
           | don't have to mine the site. Doesn't that simply mean you
           | could perform the process all of the URLs in the database
           | here by making the http request, grabbing
           | those`recipeIngredient` sections, converting units and such,
           | and then populating your simpler database from that?
           | 
           | That seems like pretty textbook (albeit very simplistic)
           | mining to me.
        
         | lkbm wrote:
         | A lot of sites have a "Jump to Recipe" link. If this linked
         | directly to that section, it'd be okay.
        
         | mfashby wrote:
         | https://plainoldrecipe.com/ does this!
        
           | VRay wrote:
           | Man, what a disappointing thread.. the BBC site is great
           | except it's all weird British ingredients and units (how do I
           | convert grams of British flour into cups of American flour
           | without a scale?)
           | 
           | The OP's site is a really nice search engine, but it dumps
           | you into the recipes' unreadable SEO trash pit websites
           | instead of parsing out the data
           | 
           | PlainOldRecipe isn't working to strip recipes down for me
        
             | Mikeb85 wrote:
             | Volume measurement for flour is inconsistent and annoying.
             | 
             | Metric and by weight is by far the best format for recipes
             | and best way to measure ingredients.
             | 
             | In professional kitchens it's all we ever used (I used to
             | work in some top restaurants, talking world's 50 best back
             | in the day).
        
               | VRay wrote:
               | Oh, that's good to know. Maybe it's time to invest in a
               | kitchen scale. (And I'll buy an actual cookbook while I'm
               | at it, so I won't have to deal with this SEO disaster any
               | more..)
               | 
               | EDIT: Hey, wait, I actually found a good website with
               | recipes: http://online-
               | cookbook.com/goto/cook/rpage/000DDF
               | 
               | and a good search engine: https://search.marginalia.nu/se
               | arch?query=pancake+recipe&pro...
        
               | jonathankoren wrote:
               | The reason why volume measurements developed in the US
               | rather mass measurements can be traced back to Frankie
               | Farmer's The Boston Cooking-School Cook Book of 1896. The
               | first cookbook with accurate and repeatable recipes.
               | Volume measurements were a practical matter. Every
               | kitchen had measuring cups. No one had a scale.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boston_Cooking-
               | School_Cook...
        
               | Mikeb85 wrote:
               | And now you can buy a digital scale for like $20. It's
               | the 21st century, weight measurements are way more
               | accurate, easier too for small quantities.
        
               | jonathankoren wrote:
               | It's almost as if legacy recipes don't exist, nor are
               | very important to people, nor have working knowledge
               | built around these units.
        
             | kokekolo wrote:
             | As someone who lived in the US for 8 years... How much is a
             | cup?
        
               | dmje wrote:
               | A cup is exactly three tenths of a half of a metre
               | wide/long divided by the inverse square of a millilitre,
               | provided the initial measurement was in cubic zlotys at
               | half a pint over Pi.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | > As someone who lived in the US for 8 years... How much
               | is a cup?
               | 
               | While its not quite right (its a little smaller), at the
               | level of doing a recipe, 250ml [0] (but for flour in
               | baking, you should use weight, not volume, anyway.)
               | 
               | [0] 4 cups = 2 pints = 1qt [?] 1l
        
               | grogenaut wrote:
               | Let me know then next time you pay for a kilogram of
               | petrol at the pump. Some things make more sense to
               | measure by volume, others by weight. This is disjoint
               | from imperial vs metric.
        
               | jerkstate wrote:
               | Fuel would make more sense to measure by mass, because
               | the volume and energy density changes with temperature.
               | It just happens to be easier to measure by volume. I
               | believe many locales mandate pumps which correct for
               | temperature and dispense slightly more volume on a hot
               | day.
        
               | jmac01 wrote:
               | The rest of the world uses litres instead of gallons.
               | Much easier to then convert to weight by using molar mass
               | of petrol and volume.
        
               | Mikeb85 wrote:
               | Yes, it makes more sense to measure something fluid by
               | volume when it doesn't fit on a scale.
               | 
               | Also, the fact that gasoline pumps are pressurised and
               | standardise the volume based on a certain temperature
               | should be a clue to one pitfall of volume-based
               | measurements.
        
               | karolist wrote:
               | Precise recipes, i.e. anything related to baking, where
               | ambient temperatures matter - everything is measured in
               | grams, even water. I'm so used to this by now that
               | measuring anything by volume sounds disappointing, let
               | alone dark age units like cups and spoons. I get it, not
               | everyone is serious about cooking enough to own
               | ingredient scales but are these users still the majority
               | of recipe consumers?
        
               | bsagdiyev wrote:
               | Yes. I cook based on recipes a lot and anecdotally so do
               | a lot of people I know and we still use cups,
               | table/teaspoons and so forth.
        
             | mfashby wrote:
             | haha,
             | 
             | if somehow you could combine the search of OPs site, plus
             | the garbage stripping convenience of plainoldrecipe, plug
             | in some really good unit conversion system, & save my
             | preferences while you're at it, you might have the ultimate
             | recipe tool.
        
             | usui wrote:
             | "it's all weird British ingredients and units (how do I
             | convert grams of British flour into cups of American flour
             | without a scale?)"
             | 
             | dear God please let this be satire, and make it satire if
             | it isn't
        
             | kwhitefoot wrote:
             | > how do I convert grams of British flour into cups of
             | American flour without a scale?
             | 
             | A web search will turn up dozens of helpful sites that will
             | do the conversion for you. Or the US could try joining the
             | rest of the world.
        
               | dazc wrote:
               | To be fair, the UK went metric many decades ago yet we
               | still use MPH on the roads; and most people would
               | struggle to tell you how tall they are or how much they
               | weigh using only metric measurements.
        
               | VRay wrote:
               | Haha, yeah. I wanted to turn my flour, milk, and baking
               | powder into pancakes, but it's surprisingly nightmarish
               | to get the two floating point numbers I need in order to
               | get the ratios right
               | 
               | "Why not simply..."
        
               | johnday wrote:
               | I assure you that the optimal way to turn flour, milk and
               | baking powder [no eggs? -Ed.] into pancakes is to keep
               | trying different ratios until it works properly.
               | 
               | There's a LOT of variance in flour, milk and baking
               | powder that make attempts at measurement based recipes a
               | fool's errand.
        
             | Larrikin wrote:
             | Not sure if calling the metric system weird is actually
             | serious or not but the solution is to get a scale. Modern
             | cooking highly utilizes the scale and probe thermometers.
             | They seem unimportant to the new cook but I end up using
             | one or both for nearly all my meals now. Dry ingredients
             | especially should be done by weight.
        
               | jdavis703 wrote:
               | If you're baking, sure measure by weight for best
               | results. If you're cooking basic, non-technical meals
               | it's more about proportions than anything else.
        
           | xtracto wrote:
           | It didn't work with this link:
           | https://www.bakerita.com/oatmeal-fig-bars-gluten-free-vegan/
           | 
           | I've personally found mysaffronapp.com to be way better at
           | this: It has been able to process recipes from every website
           | I've shot at it. I think the developer contributes here to
           | HN, as i learned about the site from a post she/he made.
        
         | s1mon wrote:
         | This is already mentioned upstream, but the Paprika app does
         | exactly this. It makes online recipes useful and understandable
         | again.
         | 
         | https://www.paprikaapp.com
        
         | jonathankoren wrote:
         | Cooking sites were pretty good with micro formats a few years
         | ago, so it wasn't that hard to scrape them
        
         | swalsh wrote:
         | I've automated my meal planning using a command line app I
         | wrote in python (https://github.com/steven-p-
         | walsh/menuplannercmd) The app tries to estimate the best menu
         | based on what I like, what I have, what i've made in the past,
         | and something I call slots, which let me give myself more or
         | less time to cook. I also add some randomness to keep things
         | fresh.
         | 
         | As i've built the app, I realized I almost never care about
         | anything more than a rough estimate of the ingredients needed.
         | Even then, I really only care about a few key ingredients. Here
         | is an example (https://github.com/steven-p-
         | walsh/menuplannercmd/blob/master...)
        
       | goshx wrote:
       | I love the idea, but the first recipe I clicked happened to be
       | from the New York times and they have this BS that I need to
       | create an account to read the recipe. Still, your tool helped me
       | find it, so it is a win.
        
         | LordAtlas wrote:
         | Disable Javascript for the site. Fixes the problem. Or run it
         | through Outline.com
        
       | uhtred wrote:
       | Where is the data coming from? Are you manually entering each
       | recipe, ingredients, rating etc into a database or do you have an
       | automated service pulling it all in from various apis/scraping?
        
       | schleck8 wrote:
       | Cool! Sorting by number of ratings, the first 30 or more results
       | are all by "Maangchi". I think there is something wrong with
       | their ratings.
        
       | RandyRanderson wrote:
       | The search here is great - you can filter by min number of
       | reviews and sort by star rating, which should be the default on
       | amzn, newegg, etc.
       | 
       | Ok, I know this filter is not on ecommerce sites b/c money but
       | one day there will be enough competition and then ...
       | 
       | Ok, I know there will never be real competition b/c capitalism.
       | Why can't you just let me have this little fiction?
       | 
       | Ok, I know b/c reality.
        
       | joshstrange wrote:
       | I'll take this opportunity to mention one of my favorite apps:
       | Paprika [0].
       | 
       | It's a recipe app that can import from just about every recipe
       | site/blog/etc and if it can't auto-import it then you can use the
       | really easy tools to grab all the pertinent information. Once
       | imported you can edit/scale/rate/tag/categorize/etc the recipe.
       | Furthermore it has meal planning tools and a grocery list built
       | in. I love the grocery list feature because you can easily click
       | "Add to Grocery List" (of which you can have multiple if you
       | want) and then just uncheck all the things you already have. It
       | has a "Pantry" feature but I've never used it, I assume it will
       | auto-uncheck items you already have when you go to add them to
       | the grocery list but I'm not sure about that.
       | 
       | It's great to import a recipe and then tweak it after making it
       | and see what works/doesn't so you don't have to find the recipe
       | again later and/or remember the changes you made to it.
       | 
       | It's cross platform (Mac/iOS/Windows/Android) and running it on
       | an older tablet in my kitchen is an awesome experience (timers
       | built in, switch between multiple recipes easily, cross out
       | ingredients after adding them, etc).
       | 
       | I have no connection to the company, I just love the app. If I
       | had 1 request it would be a way to share recipes with friends
       | through some "social"/"friend-ing" concept in the app (not using
       | a social network). You can share a ".paprikarecipe" file that
       | includes everything about the recipe but passing around a file
       | isn't always easy and Discord just cuts off extensions longer
       | than like 12 characters which makes it harder.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.paprikaapp.com/
        
         | namrog84 wrote:
         | Ive heard great things about it. And while it is cross platform
         | but you do have to buy it per platform. Which is a bummer.
         | 
         | 5 for ios. Free on android. And 30 for windows.
         | 
         | And seemingly no browser version? :(
        
           | joshstrange wrote:
           | No, no browser version but it's not been an issue for me
           | since they have apps everywhere I need. Also, their
           | (undocumented) API is simple enough if you want access.
           | 
           | As far as having to purchase per-platform, it's a steal for
           | the utility I get from it and there is no subscription fee,
           | it's 1-time.
        
       | AaronNewcomer wrote:
       | I think that for the ingredients you need to treat the entire
       | phrase as a single unit. For instance, when i put in apple as an
       | ingredient you return results that need apple cider vinegar or
       | pineapple.
        
       | blowski wrote:
       | My normal challenge with recipes is that I have no idea how
       | authoritative the reviews are. On some sites, there are a lot of
       | recipes that make no sense whatsoever, and yet have 5 stars.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | As I mentioned elsewhere, quality of a recipe can't be plotted
         | on a line. It's at least a 2D space. The wrong mix of
         | ingredients can be bad, but the instructions can also not be
         | repeatable. And repeatability might even have dimensions of its
         | own. Some ingredients age better than others, for instance, and
         | some measuring systems are more consistent. Baking powder and
         | spices are examples of the former, and brown sugar for the
         | latter, or possibly both.
        
         | davestephens wrote:
         | There are Facebook groups that offer reviews in exchange for
         | reviews. You will see very new recipes, that have had zero
         | chance to rank and be cooked, with comments like:
         | 
         | "Ooh I can't wait to make this!"
         | 
         | Or:
         | 
         | "I LOVE making chicken like this!"
         | 
         | ...and a five star review.
        
         | grogenaut wrote:
         | I'm confused by what you mean by authoritative. Cooking isn't
         | really like math, there's no canonical pineapple pizza recipe
         | unless you go too vague like: dough, sauce, ham, pineapple,
         | delicious. Or do you mean real reviews where the stars mean
         | something?
         | 
         | For recipes, stars often let me down as they seem to be more
         | related to how the recipe worked and could be followed, not how
         | good it tasted. And the flavors seem to be pretty bland.
        
           | blowski wrote:
           | I've seen five star recipes say things like "Hawaiian pizza -
           | add pineapple, tuna fish, and lasagna". So, yeah, the star
           | ratings are meaningless - but then there are too many recipes
           | to sort the wheat from the chaff.
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | The target audience for this recipe is a Venn Diagram of
             | "people who love lasagna but nobody else in their life
             | does" and "people who can't eat ham for religious or
             | dietary reasons" and "people who have no reverence
             | whatsoever for pizza" (which also, according to some, is a
             | superset of Hawaiian pizza eaters to begin with).
             | 
             | That's not a tiny number but it's not large either.
        
       | netman21 wrote:
       | Tried it out. Searched for lamb curry. First listed is a
       | paywalled NYT recipe. Was hoping for no BS as in no paywall, no
       | extraneous narrative. Oh well.
        
       | wzy wrote:
       | Be careful not to point your scraper at those mommy recipe
       | bloggers that have a story about their grandma before the recipe.
       | Most of the well know ones are making 6 figures a year from their
       | blog and will fight, tooth and nail, to make sure their content
       | is not reproduced anywhere on the internet (not even the title),
       | except for a SERP.
        
       | jakamau wrote:
       | Does anyone know of a site that connects recipes by correlated
       | ingredients?
       | 
       | Example: If you made recipe X, you should try recipe Y which uses
       | 75% of those same ingredients, or recipe Z which has 80% of the
       | ingredients in common. That way you can buy those core
       | ingredients in bulk but still have something new and fresh for
       | dinner.
       | 
       | The meal-prep dream for me is 10-15 recipes that taste good, are
       | as distinct as possible, but have the majority of their
       | ingredients in common.
       | 
       | To butcher a phrase, spice needs to be the variety of life in
       | this scenario.
        
       | james_in_the_uk wrote:
       | Looks good once the 404 issue is fixed. Perhaps for a future
       | release you could tag / filter sources by country? A big problem
       | for me in recipe search is avoiding localisation issues (e.g.
       | Having to do all the conversions from cups; remembering that
       | 'heavy cream' is somewhere in between single and double cream
       | etc.)
        
         | milomildus wrote:
         | 404 issue should be fixed.
         | 
         | Tagging by country / locale is a good idea. Another thing I'm
         | currently working on is using a data structure of ingredients
         | instead of a flat list. This structure will handle things like
         | different names for ingredients and hierarchy (ie. no dairy
         | will exclude milk and butter as well.)
        
           | james_in_the_uk wrote:
           | Here are some good UK sites to consider including:
           | 
           | The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/tone/recipes BBC
           | Good Food: https://www.bbcgoodfood.com Jamie Oliver:
           | https://www.jamieoliver.com Delicious Magazine:
           | https://www.deliciousmagazine.co.uk/recipes/ Great British
           | Chefs: https://www.greatbritishchefs.com
           | 
           | I should add that there are legal restrictions on scraping
           | and re-use of content from third party websites; I haven't
           | checked if the above permit this.
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | I gave in and bought a set of US (not the old British, nor the
         | metric..) cups in the end.
         | 
         | I don't like it, but it beats using something else for a
         | volumetric measurement.
        
           | PeterisP wrote:
           | IMHO it's better not doing volumetric measurement and doing
           | everything by weight, having your mixing container on a scale
           | the whole time and "resetting the weight" when adding new
           | ingredients.
        
             | OJFord wrote:
             | Yes, I agree, but when confronted with a bunch of 'cups' in
             | a US recipe you want to follow, IMO using cups is better
             | than a metric jug and a calculator, and also better than
             | scales, calculator, and looking up densities.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | rglover wrote:
       | This is great, thank you. Do you have any plans to do an
       | Instapaper-style scrape that just reduces the recipe down to the
       | ingredients/instructions?
        
       | pachico wrote:
       | Don't get me wrong, I think yours is definitely a no-bs
       | application, however I think the entire recipe search engines is
       | not working, or at least, not in the way I expect it to work. I
       | wish it was more a holistic solution, mixing calendar, already
       | available ingredients, non available, shopping list, where to get
       | what you're missing, different profiles (I'm vegan, for instance,
       | but I grew up in Italy so I wish I could mix both profiles),
       | search by available time, by difficulty, requirements, and much
       | more. Let's say that how to get the recipe is something that
       | isn't the problem I have.
        
         | milomildus wrote:
         | I already support time and includes / excludes ingredients, but
         | saved profiles and the other filters are good ideas!
        
           | pachico wrote:
           | Ideally, I would use it this way (as a narrative):
           | 
           | Calendar: dinner with Anna and John next Friday. I know Anna
           | is vegan and John hates hot spicy food. Go through a possible
           | list of menus (not recipes) for the night, based on food that
           | takes X time to be prepared. Get me a complete list of what I
           | need for y amount of guests (and a cost estimation).
           | 
           | Add what I need to an online grocery store list making sure
           | it arrives the day before at the latest (but not too soon
           | since I want it fresh).
           | 
           | Another use case. I have a profile where I set I'm
           | vegetarian, I don't like soups, blah and blah. I am hungry. I
           | go to the fridge and I make a list of what I have and how
           | much I have.
           | 
           | I now search for recipes with those ingredients that can be
           | done in less than 40 mins.
           | 
           | Or, I'm preparing something that requires different timers:
           | go and set them for me! Tell me that it's now time to put
           | that thing in water if I want to prepare it tomorrow morning,
           | or that I can now don't pay attention to this process during
           | 45 minutes and alert me after that.
           | 
           | As I was saying, the recipe is really the easy part for me :)
        
       | tonymet wrote:
       | Great tool to improve the dismal experience of searching recipes
       | online.
       | 
       | To intrepid cooks I encourage getting a good cookbook, e.g. from
       | Julia Child or Mark Bittman - where you can learn cooking
       | fundamentals and techniques aimed to teach you how to cook self-
       | sufficiently.
       | 
       | Break away from recipes and you'll be dancing around your kitchen
       | to your own culinary tune instead of recreating mediocre click
       | bait.
        
         | klondike_klive wrote:
         | I highly recommend Ratio by Michael Ruhlmann. So far I've only
         | used it for basic doughs, cakes, biscuits. Learn the ratios,
         | and why they're like that. Very liberating.
        
           | Mikeb85 wrote:
           | This is basically all professional baking/pastry, also
           | cooking in ultra-high end restaurants.
           | 
           | And yes, it's a much better way of doing things, plus helps
           | you to think about the effect of each ingredient on the
           | outcome.
        
           | tonymet wrote:
           | A corollary to this is to purchase an affordable ($20) food
           | scale. Despite appearances, a scale advances your skills by
           | making it easier to measure ratios correctly, memorize them
           | and reduce the # of utensils needed. All your ingredients are
           | measured in a single bowl instead of using multiple measuring
           | cups & spoons which each need washing
        
         | cushychicken wrote:
         | My latest favorite is _Cook it in Cast Iron_ from Cook 's
         | Country.
         | 
         | No recipe in it has been bad. One or two have been "too much
         | work to be worth it", but on average, the food has been good to
         | excellent.
         | 
         | https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X2E308K/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...
        
           | tonymet wrote:
           | America's Test Kitchen, which Produces Cooks Illustrated and
           | Cooks Country - is my single favorite publishing resource.
           | 
           | A perfect balance of technical information & pragmatic
           | recipes for the amateur cook to be very productive in the
           | kitchen with minimal tools & ingredients.
        
         | john-tells-all wrote:
         | This!
         | 
         | Cookbooks have editors, and the recipes are tested so they can
         | be made with common ingredients. They _want_ cooks to be
         | successful!
         | 
         | Oddly I've found cookbook recipes to ALWAYS be better than
         | online recipes. Book recipes tend to be shorter, clearer, and
         | more successful. Online recipes are okay but sometimes don't
         | come out the way I'd expect, they're more fiddly.
         | 
         | It's great to have options!
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | There is something to be said for cooking shows as well.
           | Certain activities take time, and they end up editorializing
           | things that they wouldn't think of with just the written
           | word. What order to mix things. Common substitutions. How to
           | avoid pitfalls (use this tool for this step, not this other
           | one) and fix problems.
           | 
           | Example: too much salt in your soup? Add a little potato
           | starch.
        
           | Mikeb85 wrote:
           | The barrier to publishing online is lower, so recipes are
           | always hit or miss. Really depends on the author.
        
             | tonymet wrote:
             | Online content is optimized for (a) SEO and (b) immediate
             | visual appeal. Most ranking signals are not coming from
             | actual cooks testing the recipe.
             | 
             | Your'e right, I've found some good content online. e.g.
             | Chef John / Food Wishes has great recipes and videos. He
             | also conveys some good tips & technique.
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | The ecosystem of publishing also has people who have to
             | exhibit their value to the process or get eliminated.
             | Online publishing removes both technical and social
             | friction for putting half-baked ideas out there. We haven't
             | invented a good way to have one but not the other yet.
        
       | admn2 wrote:
       | Some actual pagination would be great (instead of just next /
       | previous having page numbers)
        
       | milomildus wrote:
       | Hi HN
       | 
       | I wanted to be able to search recipes from sources I knew I could
       | trust. I also wanted a way to sort recipes by rating and include
       | and exclude ingredients I already had.
       | 
       | Going forward, I aim to add more sources, better ingredient
       | filtering (hierarchical) and more dimensions (cuisine, meal time,
       | etc.)
       | 
       | Let me know what you think! One thing I struggled with was
       | whether to includes mode with pictures or not. I can't decide if
       | the loss in info density is worth the benefit.
        
         | hellbannedguy wrote:
         | Well done. I like the instantaneous results as I type. I wish
         | more search engines worked like that.
        
         | redman25 wrote:
         | Love the fast interface. It would be awesome if you could add
         | functionality to filter by diet (vegetarian, vegan, paleo,
         | etc.) For many people, diet determines which recipes are useful
         | more often than any other factor.
        
         | atestu wrote:
         | I love the speed! I agree with other comments about the
         | pictures. They help to skim so I think they add to information
         | density in a way.
         | 
         | I would remove the author column personally, and maybe you
         | could remove " reviews" in the reviews column (just show the
         | number) and show the time as a number in minutes? If no time
         | provided just show nothing.
         | 
         | If you add pictures you could have the option to show as a
         | grid, similar to a file explorer. In the list view you could
         | have a small picture with a bigger one when you hover?
        
         | jqpabc123 wrote:
         | I applaud your effort.
         | 
         | Building is the first step, sustaining is the second.
         | 
         | A picture is worth a thousand words. Figure out how to sustain
         | the site and info density will become less of an issue.
        
         | forgotmypw17 wrote:
         | Thank you for sharing your project.
         | 
         | I like the minimal design.
         | 
         | Please take this as constructive criticism, because I like your
         | project overall, and want to only encourage you:
         | 
         | Please consider testing your project in older browsers, and
         | including no-JS configurations in your testing suite.
         | 
         | It is easy, as a developer with a beefy machine with the latest
         | and greatest installed, to overlook these possibilities, and it
         | severely limits the accessibility of your site by older
         | devices, slower connections, security-conscious users, and
         | other edge cases.
        
         | mtlynch wrote:
         | Nice work!
         | 
         | I'm curious how you're parsing ingredients. I built a keto
         | recipe search tool a few years ago[0], and I got so into the
         | ingredient parsing problem that I spun that off into a separate
         | service.[1] I still maintain the open source version, if you're
         | interested in using that for stovetop.[2]
         | 
         | [0] https://ketohub.io/
         | 
         | [1] https://zestfuldata.com/
         | 
         | [2] https://github.com/mtlynch/ingredient-phrase-tagger
        
         | theGeatZhopa wrote:
         | I found it kinda cool to read the names, but with most, I
         | couldn't even imagine what it is. May be showing images is a
         | good idea. For mobile, I would leave it like now, but add a
         | possibility to scroll within each result by tap & drag to see
         | the images
         | 
         | (A few links showed 404 btw)
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | bko wrote:
       | Very well done. I love the design and simplicity.
       | 
       | I would be cool if you could search by ingredients or food
       | allergies. Somewhere you can basically state the ingredients you
       | have and then it'll suggest recipes, but I understand if you
       | don't have all the recipes indexed by ingredients
       | 
       | Sorting the table too!
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | smallerfish wrote:
       | You've got some ingredients that don't map to any recipes, e.g.
       | "tofu scramble".
       | 
       | Also please add a facets like feature to avoid the user selecting
       | combinations of ingredients that don't match any recipes.
        
       | roofwellhams wrote:
       | All recipes are 404 not found
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | GrumpyNl wrote:
         | Not all, but a lot of them.
        
       | authed wrote:
       | If you search for, "asparagus leg", no quotes, the result appear
       | to point to an incorrect URL
        
       | HunchedOver wrote:
       | Excellent stuff and a nice break from the "rewrite it all in in
       | my tasty-flavour-lang" approaches to doing this that crop up
       | often on HN (not that those aren't impressive on a technical
       | level!). This ties in nicely with the recent discussions here
       | over the need for more specialised search engines.
       | 
       | Are you able to give any insight into how this works behind the
       | scenes, is it all manually input?
       | 
       | Bookmarked for future use.
        
         | milomildus wrote:
         | I'm currently crawling the sources which publish schema.org
         | definitions of their recipes, or the actual html itself.
         | Basically doing whatever google does to create their recipe
         | cards.
         | 
         | Everything gets thrown into a Postgres database with a vanilla
         | FTS implementation.
        
       | liminal wrote:
       | Are the filters working properly? I tried filtering for "almond
       | flour" which comes up as an ingredient option, but got no results
        
         | milomildus wrote:
         | hm, I'll take a look at this. Thanks for reporting.
        
       | anonu wrote:
       | awesome - bookmarked!
       | 
       | small bug: go to page 2 of some search results and enter a
       | different search term. You'll stay on page 2 and if there are not
       | enough results to fill page 2, it will just be blank.
        
       | leobg wrote:
       | I love the tabulated recipes shown on cookingforengineers.com
       | [1].
       | 
       | Ever since I first saw this, whenever I get a recipe, from
       | anywhere, I convert it by hand to this format.
       | 
       | Perhaps you can automate that process? That would be rad!
       | 
       | [1] http://www.cookingforengineers.com/recipe/108/Banana-Nut-
       | Bre...
        
         | savingGrace wrote:
         | Please excuse my ignorance, can you explain how I'm supposed to
         | read those? Top-to bottom first? I studied the pizza one and
         | onion rings and while I could create the items from the format,
         | I feel as though I don't fully understand it.
        
           | lelandbatey wrote:
           | I'd say those tabulated views at the bottom of each recipe
           | page should be read like this:
           | 
           | 1. Read and do all the "full-width" items at the top first as
           | preparation
           | 
           | 2. The remaining items in the tabulated recipe should be read
           | as a combination dependency graph and Gantt chart. E.g.
           | mashing ripe bananas can be done in parallel with melting the
           | butter and beating the eggs, but all three must be completed
           | in order to move onto the step of "mashing until smooth" all
           | those ingredients together with the vanilla extract
           | ingredient. This way of reading is more of a "left to right"
           | approach.
        
           | high_priest wrote:
           | Read it in whatever order, just make sure to do all the
           | things inside one enclosure, before moving onto a bigger one.
        
         | dom_hutton wrote:
         | Recipes are basically flame graphs, but for food.
        
           | kirse wrote:
           | Interesting, I always translate recipes into a mental GANTT
           | chart and use multiple timers because I like everything to be
           | finished at the same time.
        
         | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
         | This site still holds up better than most today. Imagine if we
         | had how-tos and tutorials like this instead of a youtube video
         | for everything.
        
           | WhyCause wrote:
           | I get so frustrated nowadays looking for origami
           | instructions; everything seems to be a video when all I want
           | are the diagrams that used to get posted.
        
             | bbkane wrote:
             | I buy origami books. It's a great way to leave the computer
             | for a bit and of course they're readable outside, don't
             | have ads...
             | 
             | I recommend John Montroll's origami books.
        
         | ubercore wrote:
         | Wow that's really interesting, thanks for sharing. I find it
         | wildly unintuitive but it's nice to be pushed into a different
         | way of thinking about recipes!
        
         | chrisgat wrote:
         | Oh wow, thank you for sharing this! That tabulated view is
         | almost exactly what I've been looking for when baking. I had an
         | idea along the same lines, but a slightly more visual approach
         | where portions are represented by illustration that quickly
         | give you a sense of the size of the portion as well.
        
       | gowld wrote:
       | Do we need another hundred recipe search engines?
       | 
       | Or do we need a recipe search engine search engine?
       | 
       | Are their open source projects making progress instead of
       | everyone independently reinventing the same wheel?
        
       | nickstinemates wrote:
       | Feels good. Will use it more.
       | 
       | I searched for 2 recipes which are not particularly common -
       | watermelon juice and scallion pancakes and there was an abundance
       | of results, including ones I have used before.
        
       | OJFord wrote:
       | Hey, another fan of vegrecipesofindia/Dassana's Veg Recipes I
       | see! The site has some quirks (best not to try to use the
       | quantity adjustment (which doesn't change everything) or
       | metric/US customary toggle (which is often wrong on at least one
       | side)) but in terms of actual recipes, range of stuff to enjoy
       | making and eating - and quality of photos/general SNR actually -
       | it's really nice, highly recommend it.
        
         | milomildus wrote:
         | yeah I'm a big fan -- what other sources / sites do you
         | generally use? I'm trying to aggregate an 'authoritative' list
         | of high quality sources.
        
           | pjsg wrote:
           | https://www.bbc.co.uk/food
        
           | OJFord wrote:
           | Archana's Kitchen (archanaskitchen.com) sometimes, and I'm
           | currently working through Delia Smith's cookery course book,
           | many (all?) recipes of which are available at deliaonline.com
           | actually. I'm also working through Dishoom's (restaurant)
           | book, which I think is not available online.
           | 
           | Aside from those I don't really have go-to places, I tend to
           | prefer to read through a few (i.e. just whatever top few
           | results searching for the thing I'm thinking of making) for a
           | general idea and inspiration of particular flavours, then
           | 'wing it'. In future I'll try using Stovetop for that search
           | :).
           | 
           | Edit: Oh yes and BBC Goodfood as sibling commenter pointed
           | out. That's often where I search actually (because it's
           | multiple author) rather than a general search engine, so if
           | it were a Stovetop source I could definitely use it for that
           | purpose.
        
       | guerrilla wrote:
       | Aside from everything going to 404, the front page table design
       | is a bit crowded. Maybe there's some way you can even that out a
       | bit. Otherwise, very nice.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | RosanaAnaDana wrote:
       | Can't type an apostrophe.
       | 
       | ' breaks it.
        
       | roshansingh wrote:
       | Great idea. Can you add a filter for food and drinks. I want to
       | look for lunch/dinner recipes.
        
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