[HN Gopher] Ironbci: Open-Source Brain Computer Interface
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Ironbci: Open-Source Brain Computer Interface
Author : zeepzeep
Score : 78 points
Date : 2021-11-11 19:31 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| Cyclical wrote:
| Interesting project, though a lot of prior open source work
| exists for very similar devices[1]. Couldn't get access to the
| research paper to read through due to a paywall, so hopefully the
| Github gets updated with more information.
|
| [1] https://openbci.com/
| MrDunham wrote:
| I came here to ask how it was different from OpenBCI.
|
| It _might_ end up slightly cheaper. They use the ADS1299
| Analog-to-Digital Converter, which is $40 (DACs are usually one
| of the largest costs of BCIs). So it seems like the all-in cost
| won't be much cheaper than OpenBCI.
|
| Hopefully I'm wrong and someone will correct me because I'd
| love to see a research-grade BCI for ~$100-$200 (not sure about
| Muse 2 but my neuroscientist friend called Muse 1 "a fun toy,
| but still a toy"... sadly that's the closest I've found so
| far.)
| a-dub wrote:
| didn't some grad students at mit wrap the intan adc/amplifier
| with an fpga and open source board design like 10 years ago?
| i think the component prices came in under $200.
|
| dunno about signal or clock quality though. (i suppose that's
| a function of the intan package)
| genewitch wrote:
| Sometime after 2010 all university fpga research up to that
| point was given up on or erased/forgotten.
|
| There was a lot of exciting stuff being worked on 2007-2010
| in that field.
| 2fast4you wrote:
| Why did that happen?
| a-dub wrote:
| ok, i think maybe it was open epyhs, and it looks like it's
| 5k euro for a 64 channel starter system. (with the intan
| devices being the most expensive, costing on the order of
| 500 to 1000 per 32 channel package)
|
| still an order of magnitude cheaper than the systems i knew
| and open source to boot.
| xyzzy123 wrote:
| As far as I can tell, OpenBCI already _is that thing_.
|
| It's just very hard to sustain a business on one-off low
| volume hardware sales so the prices on the official site are
| relatively high compared to BOM (but perfectly reasonable and
| necessary to sustain further R&D).
|
| It seems many hobbyists will buy off aliexpress while
| institutions / researchers tend to get the "official"
| hardware.
|
| If you're happy with 8 channels wired (run laptop off
| batteries and use a good USB opto-isolator...) then you can
| get that right now for about 200 USD (not including
| headware).
|
| (Note: better to get a 32-bit board not 8-bit one).
| zeepzeep wrote:
| Yes, sadly it's not on sci-hub it seems :/
| spicyramen wrote:
| Sorry for the simple question, how do you plug it to your brain ?
| bceyyeawauyy wrote:
| Usually a cap of electrodes on the scalp, sort of like the ones
| they put on your chest for an EKG.
|
| It's read-only, ofc.
| drawqrtz wrote:
| If we can ever get to the stage where I can just think and it
| gets saved as a text file, that would be more exciting to me than
| "metaverse" and quantum computing together.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| That's terrifying. This technology will never be used to
| empower us in ethical ways. It will be used by corporations for
| read access to our brains.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| It certainly has the potential to result in a dystopia, but
| it could also become a utopia.
|
| Today, in the USA, corporations are incredibly powerful,
| surveillance technology is growing faster than legal
| frameworks or consumers can keep up with, and there's little
| expectation of or coordinated resistance from uninformed,
| irrational, impotent consumers or effective regulation from
| our partisan and captive governmental agencies. That hasn't
| always been true - at other times, colonial governments,
| monarchies, feudal leaders, tribal leaders, or religious
| leaders have held power. It probably won't be true in
| perpetuity.
|
| The trick is to make sure that we only open Pandora's Box of
| brain-computer interfaces (or better and also more
| frighteningly, full-brain upload and emulation) technology
| when society is ready...
|
| Edit: I'm reminded of qntm's excellent short story "Lena" at
| https://qntm.org/mmacevedo - about "the earliest executable
| image of a human brain". I won't spoil it, other than to say
| that it's something of a horror story, depending on your
| worldview and the depth of your imagination.
| bhaha wrote:
| >dystopia >utopia
|
| why the lack of nuance?
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| It could, of course, become anything in between -
| slightly better, slightly worse, no change, anywhere on
| the spectrum.
|
| But I, like a great many people both on this website and
| worldwide, spend most of my working life entering data
| into a computer (and reading it out of a monitor), and
| derive a great deal of utility from data entered into a
| computer, so it's reasonable to assume that it will
| result in significant changes.
| _def wrote:
| Please think about our sponsor to continue watching this
| video!
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| God just imagining that makes me sick. Even worse than that
| patent where you must say the brand's name in order to skip
| commercials.
| bhaha wrote:
| I could see a corporation paying $ per dopamine jolt
| associated to their brand
| tines wrote:
| And also the end of civilization as we know it.
| bravedave wrote:
| France
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