[HN Gopher] Show HN: Windows 2000 on Docker
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Show HN: Windows 2000 on Docker
        
       Author : hectorm
       Score  : 257 points
       Date   : 2021-11-14 15:14 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | tm11zz wrote:
       | Inside the image for those interested:
       | https://contains.dev/hectormolinero/qemu-win2000
        
       | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
       | I'd like to use or build something like this for vintage gaming.
        
       | gravypod wrote:
       | I wish there was an easy way to mux display usage to containers
       | sor hat things like these wouldn't need to run an RDP server for
       | you to access the and we could have `--display window=640x480` or
       | `--monitor /dev/....`.
        
         | NexRebular wrote:
         | I've been using Apache Guacamole to have central access to
         | KVM/bhyve-inside-a-container (or rather inside a zone) servers
         | running on SmartOS.
         | 
         | However, I'm not using RDP at the moment as there is also VNC-
         | access available as default that Guacamole connects to.
        
       | racecar789 wrote:
       | Did anyone frequently run into ntoskrnl errors that prevented
       | Windows 2000 from booting? I ran into that error every six months
       | but to be fair a number of the incidents happened after a power
       | failure with no UPS.
        
         | djbusby wrote:
         | Was it the IDE reg tweak to fix it? (Search mergeide.reg or
         | something). That was a common issue when hardware swapped.
        
       | chris_wot wrote:
       | (comment is a little off-topic, feel free to downvote)
       | 
       | I'm curious how ReactOS stacks up to Windows 2000.
        
         | hectorm wrote:
         | I have a similar image with ReactOS if you want to compare :)
         | 
         | https://github.com/hectorm/docker-qemu-reactos
        
           | chris_wot wrote:
           | Oh nice!!!!
        
       | argsv wrote:
       | I just ran this on a Fedora machine and connected to Windows
       | using rdesktop. It works and it's amazing. I like it. The
       | Internet will surely be confused today with a surge of traffic
       | from Internet Explorer 5. Incidentally, google.com still loads
       | and allows searching; bing.com does not load.
        
         | coderdecoder wrote:
         | Nice trip down the memory lane :D. Works great on POP_OS
         | (didn't uninstall my desktop).
        
         | voakbasda wrote:
         | The fact that bing.com does not load using their own browser
         | speaks volumes about Microsoft.
        
           | VWWHFSfQ wrote:
           | What volumes does it speak about microsoft?
        
             | qbasic_forever wrote:
             | I think it's ironic. Microsoft since the dawn of time has
             | been known for backwards compatibility in Windows. They
             | would go out of their way to ensure random 16 bit apps with
             | bugs and major issues continued to work through years of
             | major upgrades to Windows. Raymond Chen has written
             | countless stories of the hacks upon hacks they had to keep
             | running through the years: http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/i
             | mages/9780321440303/samplech... So now to see it all
             | abandoned as Microsoft is pulled into the age of web
             | applications is kind of amusing.
        
               | djbusby wrote:
               | And just recently on here I was talking about how MS is
               | known for backwards compat but we actually observe Linux
               | doing it better
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | While breaking backwards compatibility with user space
               | apps is frowned upon, I can't imagine Linus approving
               | adding old bugs so that buggy programs can still work.
        
           | bdcravens wrote:
           | Yes, it says that they are moving forward and not targeting
           | browsers that are EOL.
        
           | schwartzworld wrote:
           | Using their own outdated, unsupported browser? Why should
           | they develop websites against a 22 year old browser version?
        
             | tinus_hn wrote:
             | I realize that it probably doesn't pay, but it wouldn't be
             | that difficult to implement just a form to type queries and
             | a basic html result page that works without javascript.
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | It certainly wouldn't. Forms have been with us for a very
               | long time and I've done it more times than I can
               | remember.
        
             | heyoni wrote:
             | On the one hand, it's a sign of technical prowess to be
             | able to accommodate browsers going that far back.
             | 
             | On the other, it's kind of embarrassing not to have a
             | barebones version of your website load in case an old
             | browser is detected. IE5 had Ajax after all, what more does
             | a search box really need? The answer? Endless tracking and
             | cookies and phoning home. God forbid someone uses a browser
             | we can't use to collect infinite metrics.
             | 
             | Makes me wonder, does bing work with lynx?
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | Lynx is not outdated. It's actively maintained and
               | updated. Last release is a couple months old.
        
         | xxpor wrote:
         | What're the most recent tls features IE5 supports? Does it even
         | work with non-sha1 certs?
        
           | iforgotpassword wrote:
           | Google looks at your user agent and doesn't redirect to https
           | if it's an old browser.
        
             | speedgoose wrote:
             | Isn't this a security vulnerability?
        
               | Narretz wrote:
               | For who? For Google? Or for the client? The server's
               | security shouldn't be dependent on https
        
               | speedgoose wrote:
               | Both. If you can stop a https redirect by rewriting the
               | user agent header, it can be used to track the Google
               | searches for example. HSTS would help if the browser did
               | connect to the https website recently, but it looks like
               | a security vulnerability to me.
               | 
               | I just realized after writing this comment that if you
               | can rewrite http headers, you can also stop the redirect
               | so perhaps it doesn't matter.
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | For IE5, there's two distinct obstacles to serving https.
               | 
               | 1) It's unlikely to accept any x.509 certificates you can
               | get issued under today's CA/B guidelines; and I'm also
               | not sure how many CAs from then are still valid, either
               | because they had too small of keys or they expired
               | 
               | 2) I'm not sure if ie5 supports TLS 1.0 and if it does,
               | it's probably not by default, because that how things
               | were back then.
               | 
               | Given these conditions an https handshake is highly
               | likely to fail, and as the server operator there's no way
               | to provide useful information to the user in that case.
               | If they go to your http site and you redirect them to a
               | handshake error that you know they were going to see...
               | That's not useful. You could be secure and not provide
               | service... but then again, your redirect could be MITMed
               | cause http. Or you could provide a useful service with no
               | security.
               | 
               | This is a choice, not a vulnerability.
               | 
               | This doesn't open up any new way to attack a modern
               | client. Modern clients would have google.com HSTS
               | preloaded and not use http at all. But even if that's not
               | available, a MITM that fiddles with the User-Agent to
               | avoid getting a redirect could have fetched the search
               | results via https and proxied them back via http, as long
               | as the client made an http request.
               | 
               | Edit to add: if you could get a cert IE5 would accept, it
               | likely wouldn't be acceptable by modern clients, so you'd
               | need to distinguish clients from the TLS handshake
               | (although, I guess it really is an SSL handshake for
               | ie5?). There's no client identifier in there, but you can
               | certainly tell the difference between modern and ancient;
               | it gets trickier to tell the difference between ancient
               | and pretty old or pretty old and trying to do a fallback
               | handshake.
        
               | userbinator wrote:
               | It wouldn't be surprising if they did that so people
               | could download a newer browser (such as Chrome...) which
               | would itself be signed anyway.
        
               | duskwuff wrote:
               | In modern browsers, google.com is in the HSTS preload
               | list, so the browser won't even make an initial request
               | over HTTP.
        
               | ehPReth wrote:
               | Only www.google.com and other subdomains are preloaded
               | unfortunately.. I'm having trouble quickly googling the
               | reason (is that irony?) but from memory a Googler said
               | that they had a lot of internal stuff hosted above
               | google.com they couldn't make https (HVAC controllers and
               | such?)
               | 
               | You can see the full HSTS list here I believe: https://so
               | urce.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/master:n...
        
               | PeterisP wrote:
               | Perhaps, but all the vulnerability is in using IE5;
               | there's nothing the site can do to make an IE5-compatible
               | connection secure.
        
       | IronWolve wrote:
       | I really liked how stable W2k was as a workstation. I could run a
       | bunch of terminals, programs and hardly ever had a crash. Nothing
       | is worse working an outage or deployment and POOF there goes your
       | desktop.
       | 
       | This was also around the time you could even run bbwin and
       | themes, and tweak it some for fun. Pretty sure cygwin was also
       | around.
        
         | manbart wrote:
         | Windows Server with the Desktop Experience enabled (plus a few
         | other tweaks: https://www.windowsworkstation.com/win2016-2019/)
         | is much better than Windows 10/11 IMO. Way less bullshit that
         | way
        
         | flatiron wrote:
         | Cygwin was very much around. I went to college in 2001 and was
         | forced to use w2k and lived in Cygwin as a result.
        
           | rbanffy wrote:
           | Cygwin was a wonderful thing. It wasn't fast, but integrated
           | the Linux side with the Windows side much better than WSL2
           | does (at the expense of binary compatibility). It allowed me
           | to develop server apps for Linux on a corporate sanctioned
           | Windows box and deploy them to the real servers (mostly Linux
           | with some Solaris).
        
       | grepfru_it wrote:
       | Questions about this implementation's legality? Liability?
       | Security?
       | 
       | https://github.com/hectorm/docker-qemu-win2000/blob/master/D...
       | 
       | Makes me think this is done as a POC, but definitely fork a local
       | copy as you can just swap that line out with your local copy of a
       | Win2k ISO
        
         | hectorm wrote:
         | Effectively this is done as a POC, don't expect any security on
         | a machine running Windows 2000 nowadays.
         | 
         | Regarding legality, I hope that Microsoft doesn't claim any
         | rights, since the Windows 2000 image has been published in
         | WinWorld for years without issues.
        
           | grepfru_it wrote:
           | Careful with your claims. What is the supply chain of that
           | win2k iso? You could be compromised before you even begin.
           | 
           | Just because it is past EOL doesn't mean you chuck all
           | security best practices out the window.
           | 
           | "Oh well it's end of life, might as well store passwords in
           | plaintext"
           | 
           | Microsoft still owns copyright on Win2k, so you could be met
           | with a cease and desist or you could be liable for
           | infringement.
        
             | xxpor wrote:
             | If you connect windows 2000 to the internet, you're
             | probably owned within a few minutes regardless. Similarly
             | for xp pre-sp2.
        
             | genezeta wrote:
             | I'd guess that the "don't expect any security" comment
             | above meant exactly that. Not that you should _forgo
             | security_ , but that you should _expect this to provide no
             | security at all_.
             | 
             | Some other comments mention browsing with IE5. You should
             | expect that to provide no security either.
        
             | hectorm wrote:
             | The ISO is downloaded from WinWorld, which is a website
             | dedicated to archiving old software, it's certainly
             | community maintained but at least gets some scrutiny. I
             | also searched the checksum and it matches with other
             | sources, but as there is no longer an official Microsoft
             | source you can never be entirely sure.
             | 
             | I've done my best to confirm the legitimacy but if anyone
             | has an original CD it would be awesome if they could
             | confirm it.
        
               | grepfru_it wrote:
               | My suggestion is to not embed third party urls for
               | infringing software.. that makes you a target. Inside
               | leave that variable empty and make suggestions on where
               | one could find the media whether it's the original or
               | from questionable third party websites.
               | 
               | This is how popular emulators survived the 90s, they
               | emulate the bios but force you to find the firmware
               | yourself. Even if it means downloading from an unknown
               | source without a supply chain and running unknown code on
               | your computer. The emulator and author are in the clear
        
         | 0x0 wrote:
         | Well they seem to add vnc and netcat shell listeners to the
         | startup scripts so it is kind of backdoored on purpose already
         | outside of what's in the iso
        
           | hectorm wrote:
           | During the installation I add Netcat to have a bind shell,
           | this way you can get a CMD shell from Linux using the
           | "vmshell" command included in the image.
           | 
           | So yes, technically it's backdoored but only for yourself :)
        
       | mysterydip wrote:
       | Windows 2000 was my favorite version of the OS. I kept it running
       | far longer than I should reasonably have. Thanks for giving me
       | another reason to fire it up!
        
         | qsort wrote:
         | I completely agree. People fondly remember XP, but Windows 2000
         | was peak Windows. It almost looks like a real operating system
         | :)
        
           | laumars wrote:
           | I agree. People often forget that early releases of XP was
           | basically just a re-skinned 2000 but with a few tweaks for
           | games and fonts. The problem was those skins ended up
           | doubling the memory and CPU requirements. In fact XP was a
           | pretty bloated OS on hardware from 2002. It wasn't until much
           | later into the life of XP when hardware caught up and newer
           | service packs added enough to the OS to really differentiate
           | it from 2000. But for the first few years of the life of XP,
           | it was an embarrassment.
        
             | cesarb wrote:
             | People also often forget that Windows XP was the first
             | Windows to have WGA, which was fairly controversial.
             | Windows 2000 was the last Windows version you could truly
             | own, instead of having to beg Microsoft for permission
             | every time you reinstalled or replaced hardware.
        
               | johnebgd wrote:
               | Windows XP volume licensing still gave customers full
               | ownership without online activation.
               | 
               | I remember a friend used magic jelly bean to pull keys
               | off every pc he came across to stockpile new volume keys
               | he could use after the initial key that went public got
               | banned for windows updates.
        
             | mixmastamyk wrote:
             | I preferred XP with the classic theme, some of its utils
             | were improved.
        
               | laumars wrote:
               | Which utils?
               | 
               | I think XP introduced the "switch user" option. But I
               | couldn't find much in XP to justify the additional drain
               | on memory and CPU. However I might not have needed the
               | same utils you came to prefer (Every user is different).
        
             | rbanffy wrote:
             | I'd go even further: XP was 2000 with some UI elements and
             | ideas that came from Windows Me. That grouping in the
             | control panel only made it harder to find what you needed.
        
           | chrisseaton wrote:
           | Why do you think Windows isn't a real OS? It successfully
           | powers I'd guess hundreds of millions of devices.
        
             | IntelMiner wrote:
             | To be fair, Linux powers quite literally billions of
             | devices
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | And those Windows boxes wouldn't be able to do much
               | without the ones Linux powers, but that's beside the
               | point: Windows is an OS. It's quirky and feels weird for
               | the Unix crowd, but a lot of it will be oddly familiar to
               | the VMS elders.
        
               | chrisseaton wrote:
               | And a hundred million isn't enough to be real?
        
               | arendtio wrote:
               | It is a joke to say that it is not a real OS.
               | 
               | But if you want to argue: You could say that a 'real OS'
               | must be 'mostly POSIX-compliant' [1]. That way most other
               | OS (Linux, MacOS, iOS) but not Windows would be included
               | in your definition of a 'real OS' ;-)
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX#Mostly_POSIX-
               | compliant
        
               | edgyquant wrote:
               | Windows is mostly posix compliant as it had a POSIX
               | subsystem until 2000, then it had Windows Services for
               | UNIX/Interix and now days has Windows Subsystem for
               | Linux.
        
               | chrisseaton wrote:
               | I wouldn't get why POSIX is the only way to design an OS.
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | It's not. It's an API. IBM's zOS has a POSIX-compliant
               | Unix subsystem and it has absolutely nothing to do with
               | Unix under its hood.
        
               | arendtio wrote:
               | It is not.
               | 
               | But that way you could pretend to have an objective
               | definition of the term 'real OS' and exclude Windows
               | while including most other major OS.
        
         | authed wrote:
         | Same... XP was almost as good because it was basically the same
         | thing, except for its ugly skin.
         | 
         | But even if Windows 2000 would make a come back, I would not
         | switch back to Microsoft because they would probably
         | incorporate their newest tracking methods.
        
           | city41 wrote:
           | You could set XP to look just like 2000.
        
             | ectopod wrote:
             | Not quite. They broke smooth window resizing in XP.
        
         | edwinyzh wrote:
         | I agree too! It's the BEST!
        
       | rbanffy wrote:
       | 2000 and XP/2003 were the last Windows versions I used and cared
       | about. It was with 2000 that I realised working with 2 200MHz
       | CPUs was a better experience than a single 400MHz one (at least
       | on Windows).
        
       | throwaway69123 wrote:
       | I really wish docker (not specifically but containers frameworks)
       | had support for graphical output. Be really cool to containerise
       | visual apps.
        
       | nayuki wrote:
       | A year or so before Windows XP brought the NT kernel to home
       | users, I chose to switch from Windows Me to 2000 to reap the
       | benefits in computer stability. I was using a business operating
       | system before it was cool.
        
       | _nickwhite wrote:
       | What a cool project. Expose that port 3389 (RDP) to the internet
       | & see how long before it gets cryptolocked.
        
       | rezonant wrote:
       | Finally! We've been waiting for Windows containers to hit feature
       | parity with Linux for a long time! /s
        
       | arpa wrote:
       | cool! I've never considered running qemu in a container. This
       | project is a matroska on actual windows systems, as docker
       | runs/used to run in VM (has WSL changed that?). So
       | VM->Docker->VM. You could probably also run windows-something
       | that supports Docker and run the same image. Oh this gives me
       | baaaaad ideas. Thank you, OP
        
         | NexRebular wrote:
         | illumos has had qemu inside a container (or zone) since I
         | believe 2011 when Joyent ported KVM to SmartOS. Nice to see
         | docker catching up already...
        
           | arpa wrote:
           | Did you mean linux? because docker is just an interface foe
           | cgroups, namespaces and chroot.
        
             | NexRebular wrote:
             | the docker system including all the bells and whistles. But
             | indeed I could've just said linux is playing catch-up in
             | this area too...
        
         | xxpor wrote:
         | WSL2 itself also runs in a VM
        
       | throwaway984393 wrote:
       | This is amazing! Does anyone know if KVM hardware virt works on
       | EC2 / ECS / Lambda / other cloud or VPS vendors?
       | 
       | Also, does anyone know which versions of Windows have
       | restrictions on where you can run it? IIRC, recent versions
       | stipulate you can't just run your own copy of it virtualized
       | without an approved hardware vendor? Or maybe I'm crazy. I know
       | with MacOS the EULA states you can't run it on anything but Apple
       | hardware (thanks, Apple).
       | 
       | If only their EULAs weren't so restrictive, it would be easy to
       | spin up a build+test cluster for your apps for all platforms.
       | Sucks that developing cross-platform is now legally/financially
       | more troublesome than it is technically.
        
       | comprev wrote:
       | A handful of PCs running pirated Win2k licenses and Small
       | Business Server 2003, hooked up via an eBay Cisco switch was the
       | start of my career in Ops. I learned so much back then!
        
       | rado wrote:
       | Truly great OS. The pinnacle. Rock solid. Just look at that
       | perfectly consistent UI. Everything afterwards is bloat and UI
       | BS.
        
       | noja wrote:
       | I love the speed and simplicity of Win2k.
       | 
       | What would HNers change in Win2k to bring it up-to-date? What's
       | must have features does Windows 11 have that Win2k does not?
        
         | fwsgonzo wrote:
         | Modern desktops do multi-display and scaling better. Perhaps
         | also GPU-work, however I greatly prioritize low latency over
         | any fancy windowing.
         | 
         | I wonder how the Windows 2000 desktop latency was? I remember
         | it felt really snappy.
        
       | pengaru wrote:
       | Is booting windows in a vm something noteworthy in 2021?
        
         | throwawayay02 wrote:
         | I was searching for your question. I agree I don't know why
         | this is in the first page... Maybe some people [1] are right
         | when they say most of HN's audience is interested in business
         | and technology, but not technical themselves.
         | 
         | [1] http://n-gate.com/
        
           | mardifoufs wrote:
           | What happened to ngate? Have they ever been on a long hiatus
           | like this one before?
        
           | IshKebab wrote:
           | I think people don't realise that Docker isn't really doing
           | anything here.
        
         | ranger_danger wrote:
         | yea I don't get it... I have docker/qemu images for every
         | windows version ever made, but I don't go parading them around
         | to everyone. they're so simple to make anyways.
        
       | nix23 wrote:
       | I miss W2K :(
        
       | zinekeller wrote:
       | > Why?
       | 
       | >> "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they
       | could, that they didn't stop to think if they should." - Dr. Ian
       | Malcolm
       | 
       | I like this "Why?" "Why not?" attitude. Surprised though that a
       | whole operating system, kernel and all, is dockerised though,
       | especially that the impression of Docker to me is that it is
       | normally everything but the kernel.
       | 
       | Edit: I didn't read the QEMU in the name. I won't be surprised if
       | this is a full software emulation though (instead of the now-
       | common hardware-assisted virtualisation).
        
         | als0 wrote:
         | KVM is being passed to the Docker container, so it is using
         | hardware-assisted virtualisation. Of course, certain things
         | like the BIOS and peripherals will be fully handled in software
         | by QEMU.
        
         | user3939382 wrote:
         | I thought that quote was so funny, I actually laughed out loud.
         | I've definitely dug into technical challenges way deeper than
         | necessary merely because it felt like a challenge and I wanted
         | the feeling of beating/solving it.
        
           | flatiron wrote:
           | You could spend 15 minutes and modify the dockerfile to
           | accept an autoboot executable and it would actually be
           | useful!
        
         | tatref wrote:
         | Seems like this runs qemu inside the container.
        
           | xaduha wrote:
           | Yeah, pretty run-of-the-mill as far as similar projects go.
           | Maybe a tad over-complicated to put it mildly.
           | 
           | I've done something like this except not with KVM, but with
           | headless Xorg+PulseAudio+Wine to have Hearthstone with sound
           | over RDP.
           | 
           | Did it run? Yes. Did it run like crap? Absolutely!
        
       | FpUser wrote:
       | Windows 2000 running in VM in Docker. Might as well skip the
       | docker stage as it does not really add anything.
       | 
       | Otherwise sweet memories. I used Win 2K as a workstation at the
       | time. Loved it.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | NabiDev wrote:
       | But, Why?
        
         | UI_at_80x24 wrote:
         | Because a project like this is the exact ethos that HN thrives
         | on and the niche that 'Hacker' community exists to fill.
         | 
         | I would love to see 100 of these a day.
        
         | crehn wrote:
         | Why not? It's fun.
        
         | jagger27 wrote:
         | I like to boot up old operating systems for UI design
         | inspiration. Software really felt different back then. This
         | sort of "pointless" project saves me a lot of hassle!
        
           | IshKebab wrote:
           | Is it that hard to do directly using QEMU?
           | https://wiki.qemu.org/Windows2000
        
       | z3t4 wrote:
       | so it runs Ubuntu which fires up a virtual machine that runs
       | windows. Why not run the VM directly without Ubuntu !? (and
       | without Docker)
        
         | hectorm wrote:
         | You can of course set this up manually outside Docker, I
         | provide this image so that you can easily have a preconfigured
         | installation with VNC, RDP, bind shell and a Samba server.
        
       | moffkalast wrote:
       | Docker can run Win 2000, but older versions of Win 10 can't run
       | Docker. There must be some irony here.
        
       | tiernano wrote:
       | Someone posted that 2k was the last nt edition without bloat... I
       | think that was wrong (plus comment seems to have been deleted).
       | 2k3, 2k8, 2k8r2, 2k12, 2k12r2, 2016 and 2019 all have no bloat or
       | random crap... 2022 is mostly the same.... And comes with
       | (chrome) edge too... Since the xp days I have always skipped the
       | home/pro/workstation editions of windows and used server... Gave
       | more features I needed, like hyper v, and felt more stable...
       | Plus less crap...
        
         | pacifika wrote:
         | How is the compatibility with everyday applications?
        
           | tiernano wrote:
           | I haven't found any app that doesn't run on windows server
           | that does on win desktop. I don't game, so never tired
           | games... Wsl on 2019 was limited to v1, but think that got to
           | v2 on 2022... Docker works, all dev tools work... Yea, all
           | good!
        
             | R0b0t1 wrote:
             | The issue is hardware. Most gaming hardware does not have
             | server qualified drivers which may mean you can't use your
             | hardware. Issues normally with WiFi cards and GPUs, most
             | other things will work. No chance of running Windows Server
             | on a laptop.
             | 
             | The qualification is to prevent random crashes; it's not
             | really needed, but it is hard to impossible to disable last
             | I checked.
        
               | tiernano wrote:
               | Never had an issue with drivers... Was running nvidia
               | cards and the standard nvidia drivers worked without
               | issue... Also did manage to run win2003 on a laptop at
               | one stage... Can't remember if drivers for wifi worked...
               | The machine was hard wired in...
        
         | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
         | Everything after 2008R2 is significantly more bloated. I still
         | interact with a few 2008R2 VMs at work and every time I log on
         | to one I'm actually a little freaked out by how much more
         | responsive it is.
        
         | snazz wrote:
         | I've also used Server 2019 on a desktop and it's pretty solid.
         | A couple of pointers:
         | 
         | - If you're considered a "student" by any means, you probably
         | have access to an institutional email address that gives you
         | access to Azure for Students. Through the Azure site, you can
         | download an ISO for any LTSC edition of Windows Server
         | (including Datacenter) and get a valid license key. This is a
         | great way of saving money and avoiding sketchy key resellers.
         | 
         | - Driver support is basic out of the box. The PC I used for
         | Windows Server has an AMD graphics card, which normally comes
         | with GPU drivers as soon as you install a consumer version of
         | Windows. This doesn't happen automatically with Windows Server.
         | When you download the GPU drivers from AMD, the installer will
         | detect that you're running Server and error out, but you can
         | tell Device Manager to install drivers from your C:\AMD folder
         | and it will work fine (minus the fancy GUI control panel, which
         | is arguably bloatware itself). Something similar should work
         | for Nvidia cards.
         | 
         | - Normal Win32 applications work great (I used Chrome, Office,
         | IntelliJ, and a number of other everyday apps and they worked
         | perfectly). However, you don't have access to the Windows
         | Store, so installing UWP applications that aren't part of the
         | base system (i.e., anything other than Settings, pretty much)
         | is a pain.
        
           | R0b0t1 wrote:
           | Driver support isn't a given. There's lots of normal hardware
           | which may never be server qualified. You can make a desktop
           | that will run server fine, but it's kind of a Linux
           | situation; you can't pick random parts and assume they'll
           | work.
        
             | chronogram wrote:
             | I have yet to run into this problem, do you have any
             | examples? I don't have any exotic hardware outside of the
             | ThinkPad X220 dock which nowadays only works with Linux.
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | Thinkpads are a good bet for Linux compatibility because
               | they are very popular with Red Hat and Ubuntu kernel
               | developers. They'll do whatever it takes to make Linux
               | run well on their machines.
        
               | chronogram wrote:
               | In a sense yes, but like my current Latitude 7xxx and
               | those original Thinkpad Xxx it's just paying for a
               | premium product and getting premium hardware and premium
               | chips inside so I get hardware that staffs a development
               | team that makes good drivers and that has manufacturers
               | that staffs a development team good enough to put it on
               | fwupd.
        
           | geofft wrote:
           | There's a fairly active community of folks gaming on the
           | major public cloud providers, which only provide images for
           | Windows Server, but games work just fine. In fact, NVIDIA
           | provides an official gaming AMI based on Windows Server:
           | https://aws.amazon.com/marketplace/pp/prodview-xrrke4dwueqv6
        
           | kreeben wrote:
           | Way back in the day I played Max Payne on a Win2k server and
           | it worked great. Couldn't make the OS crash even if I tried.
           | Best MS OS ever.
        
         | Crontab wrote:
         | I was always a fan of NT4, personally speaking.
        
           | iforgotpassword wrote:
           | Me too. While I think 2k was peak when it comes to a usable,
           | lean desktop os, to me, NT4 was the first Windows NT that was
           | "complete" and usable, the "we're done" milestone. Can't find
           | the proper expression for it really, but it just has a
           | special place in my IT heart.
        
           | rbanffy wrote:
           | NT4 blue screened on me when I was demoing IIS process
           | separation. It was an auditorium full of very technical
           | people, who mostly already knew me from one place or another.
           | Fortunately, I was quite good as a stand up comedian.
           | 
           | I felt vindicated when 98 did the same with billg at COMDEX
           | (or was it CES?).
           | 
           | NT4 had an architectural flaw that was introduced to make
           | some people happier - many device drivers started to run in
           | kernel space and their bugs were able to crash the whole
           | machine, unlike 3.5, where a crashed driver could be
           | reloaded.
        
       | gfodor wrote:
       | Best MS OS, they should have just maintained this for the last 20
       | years.
        
       | hn_throwaway_69 wrote:
       | This brings back great memories. Windows 2000 sparked my interest
       | in computing.
       | 
       | I was in elementary school and was obsessed with the 'Log on to'
       | dropdown box on Windows login screens, and how you could use the
       | same credentials on any PC.
       | 
       | Somehow I managed to salvage an old computer and source myself a
       | copy of the ISO and managed to setup an ADDS domain controller
       | and join my mother's laptop to the domain.
       | 
       | I went and asked the IT guy for advice on doing a multi forest
       | configuration and I think it blew his mind. Why did I want multi
       | forest? Guess I was preoccupied with whether or not I could, and
       | didn't stop to think if I should. : )
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | Some of the most interesting pursuits in my "youthful"
         | computing experience was looking into how to make things work
         | that were meant for large-scape deployment work for personal
         | use. I had a Dell Inspiron 600m laptop (circa 2003, RIP 1 year
         | after due to bad soldering on the mainboard) which came with a
         | Smart Card reader. At one point in time, the holy grail would
         | have been making it work for password-less login on Windows XP.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | > Why did I want multi forest? Guess I was preoccupied with
         | whether or not I could, and didn't stop to think if I should. :
         | )
         | 
         | Good news; you belong on Hacker News:)
        
           | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
           | Are we sure that's "good" news?
        
             | djbusby wrote:
             | Absolutely.
             | 
             | One of us, one of us, gabba gabba hey!
        
         | cagataygurturk wrote:
         | I am happy to hear that I was not the only nerd interested in
         | enterprise software during middle school years. You know, while
         | my friends were waiting the latest games, I would wait for the
         | next Service Pack of Windows 2000. Constant exploration of AD,
         | firewalls, networking, purely for curiosity and fun.
         | 
         | Now those friends ask me how to get an IT job by the way :)
        
         | t0mas88 wrote:
         | Same here, I experimented with win 2k server as a domain
         | controller and also installed Red Hat with Samba for doing
         | mostly the same. Not because it was useful at home, but because
         | 13 year old me wanted to underhand how it worked and had lots
         | of time.
         | 
         | The windows domain thing was a bit magical, but in the end an
         | old PC with Red Hat and later Debian became a useful home
         | server and router. I think I was quite lucky that my father had
         | a background in IT so we did some things together in early
         | Linux exploration. He hadn't used it before either but did use
         | Unix in the early days.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | tomc1985 wrote:
         | Yup. This exact thing pretty much lead me to a network admin
         | job during college. I had friends that got hired as admins in
         | high school, by the high school, and I was super jealous. The
         | pay sucked but it was a humble start to my career in tech.
         | 
         | God now I am getting nostalgic for the huge network drive
         | shared by the entire school. That shit was _wild_
        
         | tsumnia wrote:
         | > This brings back great memories. Windows 2000 sparked my
         | interest in computing.
         | 
         | Same, I remember being so resistant to porting to XP. AND funny
         | enough, when I finally made the shift, it was the first time I
         | ever wiped a hard drive, losing all my precious pirated MP3s.
        
         | mikehollinger wrote:
         | > Somehow I managed to salvage an old computer and source
         | myself a copy of the ISO and managed to setup an ADDS domain
         | controller and join my mother's laptop to the domain.
         | 
         | Ha. That brings me back as well. I installed (pirated) Windows
         | 2000 Advanced Server onto a Compaq that I won. I ran my own
         | active directory which let me share printers to my mom's laptop
         | (an iBook at the time), and our other PC. It was total
         | overkill, but I deeply enjoyed tinkering with each and every
         | setting to see what it did, discovering the registry and seeing
         | what all of -that- did, breaking things, fixing things... and
         | now here we are. :-)
         | 
         | I miss that feeling. :-)
        
           | hn_throwaway_69 wrote:
           | Eerily similar to me! Minus winning the computer, would have
           | begged someone instead!
           | 
           | My mother wasn't very happy with my experiments with group
           | policy, which included adding the secure attention sequence
           | (control alt delete) to her login screen. And various
           | lockdowns of the start menu and Windows Explorer :)
           | 
           | Overkill is an apt description.
        
       | unglaublich wrote:
       | In general: https://hub.docker.com/r/tianon/qemu
        
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