[HN Gopher] There is currently no way to drive between Vancouver... ___________________________________________________________________ There is currently no way to drive between Vancouver and the rest of Canada Author : actually_a_dog Score : 498 points Date : 2021-11-16 17:04 UTC (5 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.kelownanow.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.kelownanow.com) | anonymousisme wrote: | The ferries are still running. | jacquesm wrote: | They'll be maxed out capacity wise almost immediately, compared | to a working four lane road ferries have extremely small | capacity. But better something than nothing. | cf100clunk wrote: | But there are multiple BC Ferries travel advisories in effect. | iainctduncan wrote: | Here's an article that gives people a better sense of how severe | this is. I have lived in Southern BC for 40 years and cannot | remember there ever being so many simultaneously affected areas | from rain. | | https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-floods-tu... | | And one on the supply chain effects: | https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bc-floods-rail-impact-1.625... | | Some folks in Vancouver are saying they are unaffected... well | what you really mean is you haven't noticed yet. There will | absolutely be ripple effects. Even in Victoria we had a general | "do not drive" advisory yesterday, and good luck getting a | plumber if you need one this week. | | I know city folks who have worked for the BC government in | emergency management and are now stocking up on essentials... | cf100clunk wrote: | Also the Black Press and Glacier Media chains of local BC | papers (i.e. Burnaby Now, Chilliwack Progress, Tri-Cities News, | etc.) are carrying a great deal of coverage of the impact on | their local areas. The people saying that they are unaffected | are entitled to be as content as they like... for today. | iainctduncan wrote: | here is another of footage of road damage. | | https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/coquihalla-t... | | I think many people reading this don't realize that there are | road closures ... and then these. | | It's not "you shouldn't drive today" and we have some flaggers | chewing gum, it's "100s of meters of road no longer exist" kind | of damage. Do that in enough places at the same time and it | will be months before roads are back to normal. Enough time for | severe supply shortages in many places. | frosted-flakes wrote: | Related: https://globalnews.ca/news/2445052/bridge-closure- | blocks-tra... | | In January 2016, the cable-stayed bridge over the Nipigon River | in northern Ontario that is the only road link between eastern | and western Canada was closed when it began to buckle at an | expansion joint. | jacquesm wrote: | There are quite a few single-points-of-failure on the road from | Halifax to Vancouver, each of which would cause at least a few | 100 to maybe even more than 1000 km detours through country | that really isn't ready to deal with any kind of extra traffic. | Especially North of Sault ste. Marie all the way to Thunder bay | and between Vancouver and Calgary. | | Any problem there and you're going to be driving 100's of km on | logging roads, unpaved, no facilities (gas, food). | 99_00 wrote: | Will this be a significant impact to most people living in | Vancouver? | | All land freight can come from the US. COVID doesn't affect this. | | International freight will come through port. | | Agricultural communities just outside of greater Vancouver are | cut off from each other. Canada restricts milk products and eggs, | so I expect these will run out. What else do people in Vancouver | relay on from the Fraser Valley? Toilet paper? | actually_a_dog wrote: | As of a few seconds ago, this is the best route Google Maps can | find to go from Vancouver to Kelowna: https://archive.md/we9X5 | | You have to go pretty far into the US on this route. | | Edit: Incidentally, asking for directions from Vancouver to | Edmonton currently causes Google Maps to fail and give you a | route that's closed: https://archive.md/7lLu4 | foofoo55 wrote: | One could also take the ferry to Vancouver Island, drive north | to Port Hardy, take another ferry to Prince Rupert, then drive | on a highway that isn't actually washed out. | | Or just fly. Airports are fine. | brewdad wrote: | I think the issue is less to do with commuters or people who | would like to get to Calgary and more the fact that trucks | won't be able to move in and out of the city for a while. A | messy supply chain just got messier. | TMWNN wrote: | Back to the historical norm! Until the Trans-Canada Highway, | automobiles from BC had to enter the US to travel to eastern | Canada. (<https://np.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/3rsv0k/til_th | at_unti...>) | myohmy wrote: | Yeah we used to take the rail. Which is currently washed out. | Which technically means BC can secede from confederation. | qbasic_forever wrote: | If someone is actually planning to drive a route like that, be | absolutely sure to check the conditions of the mountain passes | in the US that you will cross. The linked route has you going | over highway 2 and steven's pass, which right now is projected | to get a ton of snow: https://wsdot.com/travel/real- | time/mountainpasses/Stevens Typically travel over these passes | requires snow chains in your car, and at times they can be | entirely shut until snow removal can occur. | mensetmanusman wrote: | If the US routes get destroyed, we would have to airdrop food | soon. | theandrewbailey wrote: | Vancouver has a port. Getting a barge there strikes me as a | better solution. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Vancouver | hinkley wrote: | Did Vancouver have a share in the drought that hit parts of the | PNW last summer? I wonder if the dry/wet cycle has contributed to | the instabilities. | myohmy wrote: | I wonder this too. Vancouver Island was hit by a drought this | summer and the (not unusual) torrent caused "water to flow | where it has never flowed before" according to the road | engineers. | hinkley wrote: | Soil biology does some weird thing to soils in the | boundaries. | | Fungally dominated soils have a greatly increased mineral and | water availability due to the meddling of the fungi in soil | chemistry. But if you dry out fungi enough, they become | hydrophobic, like sphagnum does, and this can increase the | likelihood of flash flooding. In a forest environment, the | fungi increase canopy, and the canopy mechanically slows the | water. Except in deciduous forests in the winter, there is no | canopy, only mostly-bare branches. Although typically BC and | northern Washington seem to be overpopulated with conifers so | that may not apply in this case. | toss1 wrote: | That first pic is wild - it looks like the bridge survived, and | the flood washed away the embankment supporting the road way past | the edge. | ttul wrote: | The other day, I was in Whistler and tried to use Google Maps to | route back to Vancouver. It wanted me to take logging roads | through the back country.. roads that are actually deactivated | and impossible to traverse unless you have a trail bike perhaps. | That's Canada for you... | deanCommie wrote: | While Google does do this all-too-often, last summer I drove | from Pemberton to the lower mainland over the backroads by | Lilllooet Lake and Harrison Lake. | | I have an AWD Subaru, but other than a couple spots the road | would have been fine in any FWD sedan. | | That's probably not the road you mentioned but nonetheless. | Jagerbizzle wrote: | I've had similar things happen to me before because I somehow | managed to toggle the "avoid highways" setting without | realizing it. | mynameisvlad wrote: | Bingo. There is literally one way to get from Vancouver to | Whistler: the Sea to Sky/99. And it's a highway. | | There _are_ no other links, which is why even when you choose | "avoid highways", you still get put on the 99 between | Squamish and Whistler, since that's literally the only road | that connects the two. You get put on some alternative | backroads between Squamish and Vancouver, which are horrible | to use (it was the only option at times while the 99 was | being upgraded for the Olympics) | vl wrote: | > Bingo. There is literally one way to get from Vancouver | to Whistler: the Sea to Sky/99. | | Figuratively. Technically from Whistler you can go north on | 99 and then south on 12 and west on 1 and be back at | Vancouver. | mynameisvlad wrote: | I mean, sure, it's over 3 times longer. Even if you were | going from Lillooet to Vancouver, no map is going to give | you 12->1 as the route, it'll tell you to take 99 down. | | Plus, that's basically _all_ highways. | klyrs wrote: | I'd say "that's Google for you" but really it's whatever | variant of Dijkstra's algorithm they (and other map services) | use. If somebody puts the roads on a map, there will be network | conditions that suggest they might be useful... whether or not | they actually exist in a usable condition. | ghaff wrote: | I've never had Google try to take me anywhere _really_ | ridiculous and I 've played with its routing algorithm in | places like Death Valley and it does seem to avoid | "interesting" shortcuts if there's a more reasonable | alternative. | | But once you get below well-traveled paved roads, you | probably want some local knowledge because there's not a lot | of mapping data that differentiated between a well-graded, | good condition dirt road and a potentially seasonal road that | you probably want high clearance 4WD for (and know how to use | it). | skeeter2020 wrote: | I've had Google Maps direct me off a dead-end road into a | playground... in the middle of Saskatchewan, so it | definitely has some misses. | jeffbee wrote: | I have a suspicion that gmaps infers roads from | photographs, and some of the roads are not roads at all. | ghaff wrote: | There's something called the TIGER database. [1] Of | course, that needs to be populated and updated somehow | and Google probably applies various corrections. But | there are plenty of tracks, especially in the American | West, where their status as a "road" is somewhat a | function of weather and opinion. | | [1] https://www.census.gov/geographies/mapping- | files/time-series... | tablespoon wrote: | >> I have a suspicion that gmaps infers roads from | photographs, and some of the roads are not roads at all. | | > There's something called the TIGER database. [1] Of | course, that needs to be populated and updated somehow | and Google probably applies various corrections. | | That's for the US though, it wouldn't cover Canada | (though Canada probably has an equivalent). | | IIRC, Google actually has a fairly large team of | cartographers keeping Google Maps up to date. In addition | to satellite and aerial photographs, and other maps, | Google also has the benefit of Street View cars to give | it on-the-ground data plus GPS tracks of customers using | Google Maps on their phones. | | On OpenStreetMap, there's a layer that shows all the GPS | tracks that its users have uploaded, all superimposed on | each other (though last I checked it hadn't been updated | in some time). It's pretty easy to make out real roads | from that data. | | This website has some pretty good essays about Google | Maps and other mapping services: | https://www.justinobeirne.com/. | iainctduncan wrote: | It is disappointing to see some people thinking this is not a big | deal. Please don't spread that kind of misinformation. | | We had multiple highways closed over southern BC, many roads | down, power outages, municipalities evacuated, and tons of homes | flooded in towns and cities all over southern BC. This is | affecting a hell of a lot more than whether we can get to the | rest of the country by road. There is almost no one who is not | impacted. I'm on Vancouver Island and houses are having their | basements flood, conking out heaters. Meritt is evacuated. The | Malahat highway was closed. Ferries were cancelled. Various roads | are GONE. Like - the asphalt is now in a river. Folks are getting | airlifted out of highways by military copters. | | This is unprecedented bad shit here - don't minimize it. | robotresearcher wrote: | It's only a handful of months since we were hearing about | unprecedented 45C+ temperatures and towns burning down in | minutes | | edit: looked it up: peak of 49.6degC (121degF) June 29 2021, | Lytton, BC. That's Death Valley/Saudi Arabia temps, in a place | full of trees on a major river, above 50degN. | iainctduncan wrote: | Seriously. It hit nearly 50 and then Lytton BURNED DOWN. And | now Merritt is IN A RIVER. Frankly, it's terrifying for | people here with any scientific literacy. | time_to_smile wrote: | HN has long declared itself an "Everything is Fine" zone. | | While you are here it is important to remember that "Everything | is Fine". Suggesting that things might not be fine is a good | pathway to being flagged or at least downvoted. Since | everything is fine, the only motivation you would have for | suggesting it's not, is to create trouble for political | reasons, which is clearly against HN guidelines. | | It's pretty clear that Everything is Fine because most of us | have invested our lives on future prosperity. We're working | hard on tough problems because tomorrow will be far brighter | than today. The funding our companies receive is based on the | promise of future economic growth. | | If it were some how the case that everything was _not_ fine | (and again, to be crystal clear, Everything is Fine), then many | people here would be thrown into a very uncomfortable emotional | place, since it would call into question nearly all of our | assumptions about the world that give us meaning. But of course | we are comfortable, because Everything is Fine. | | Are their problems? Of course! Otherwise we wouldn't need | startups and we wouldn't need VC funding. If you see a problem | the answer is simple: why not find the solution and pitch it in | the next YC round? | | All problems are just opportunities for startup disruption, | waiting to be solved. They're exciting! So don't worry too | much, and most importantly, remember that Everything is Fine. | iainctduncan wrote: | on point. | tehsauce wrote: | Unless you drive your car onto a ferry! | blocked_again wrote: | (deleted) | asdfsd234234444 wrote: | lol, salty | [deleted] | swader999 wrote: | Albertans: lets take their land while we can! | baybal2 wrote: | Wow, I lived in Canada for almost 6 years, and never knew that | Canada spends so little on roads. | bobthepanda wrote: | To put this in context, the Pacific Northwest and British | Columbia are being hammered with extremely heavy rain. Roads | are being washed out or struck with landslides. | | Seattle already hit the third-rainiest November in history and | we're two weeks in. | https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2021/11/15/atmospheri... | wing-_-nuts wrote: | People really overestimate how resilient infrastructure is to | natural disasters, and such disasters will become more common as | the earth warms. | blondie9x wrote: | Exactly. As people over consume and the planet's climate | continues to become more erratic and destabilized | infrastructure disasters will increase. | pjkundert wrote: | Or, rampant incompetence of increasingly all-powerful | government functionaries paralyzes more and more of our | nation when random events occur. | | The capacity to quickly repair roads exists. Call in a major | structural steel engineering firm, and give them free reign | and a big cheque. | | You'll have a bridge over the swirling rapids in 24 hours. | | Of course, government workers will be falling to the ground | foaming at the mouth -- but that's just a side-benefit. | ygjb wrote: | you might want to loosen that tinfoil hat. | | Private sector does really well in a lot of spaces, but | despite being public infrastructure, most highways and | roadworks built in Canada _are already built by_ private | sector employees working under contract. | | Those public sector employees foaming at the mouth? Those | are the ones who are responsible for making sure that the | roads, highways and infrastructure are fit for purpose, | including safety. But hey, why would we want anyone | providing oversight of private corporations right? | | You want emergency, purpose built solutions built by a | mission oriented team? May I point you in the direction of | the Canadian Military Engineers (you know, government | workers?). | actually_a_dog wrote: | It makes me sad to see the parent comment grey (10:16 AM | PST). You're absolutely correct that overconsumption is the | root of the problem. | Spivak wrote: | I think it's more nuanced than this. Like you're right that | reducing consumption/commerce would help but it has trade- | offs that lots of people don't jive with and isn't really | the root of the problem which is waste. There is zero issue | with goods made and distributed using renewables, or goods | where non-renewables are reclaimed (i.e. metals, glass, | certain plastics). | yodsanklai wrote: | > There is zero issue with goods made and distributed | using renewables | | But how much of the goods we consume fall in that | category? | blondie9x wrote: | The problem is right now governments and enterprise is | mostly focused on fixing supply side of the climate | change and sustainability problem. Not enough is being | done or discussed to reduce demand. Focusing on | consumption changes is just as important as focusing on | supply issue IMO. | 015a wrote: | More people need to think about their emergency preparedness. | We're not talking about permanent societal collapse; just a | week-long collapse of electricity, food supply, water, | transportation, or other critical goods. | | If you live in a cold climate: go buy an indoor safe propane | heater right now, with a supply of propane. Its not that | expensive (maybe $100) for the value you will get out of it in | the coming years. It can single-handedly be the difference | between being able to hunker down in your home, and having to | rely on external support that you'll pray is there for you when | the time comes. A carbon monoxide detector is also good to pair | with it, to be safe. Blankets as well. | | Water is easy, though pretty large volume. Food also isn't as | hard as it used to be; having a weeks supply of emergency | rations is fine, but consider: Soylent, Huel, etc. Their powder | form has a published shelf life of a year, its volumetrically | dense, nutritionally complete, only requires water to make, and | tastes pretty good. | | CASH. Some way to start fire. Candles. A couple flashlights. | Batteries (the huge ones made for camping are fantastic, though | expensive). Two way radios with very long-range are also a | fantastic investment; imagine its the winter, power & cell | service is down, and a loved one has to try a local store for | some supply you forgot. | jacquesm wrote: | Canada is a special case: small population, huge area to cover. | The infrastructure budget in Canada per square kilometer is | very low. | earleybird wrote: | With BC there's a substantial geography component. When a | highway washes out it's often 100s of km detour. In contrast, | for substantial portions of Alberta, a highway washout often | means just a jump over to the next township road . . . which | are about every mile (cuz those were the units of measure at | the time they were laid out). | jacquesm wrote: | Yes, there are quite a number of choke points that are | unavoidable in BC. Alberta is pretty much flat with some | mild elevation changes and lots of parallel roads. In BC it | is the opposite, the z-axis dominates everything. | soperj wrote: | ... there is the Rockies in Alberta, plus the badlands. | 99_00 wrote: | I agree we need to deal with global warming. We also need to | continue getting better at dealing with disasters. Thankfully, | so far our ability to deal with natural disasters is outpacing | the increased frequency. | | While Frequency Of Natural Disasters Is Increasing, Related | Death Tolls Are Actually Decreasing | | https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimfoerster/2021/10/01/while-fr... | Arrath wrote: | Compounded by areas with sparse infrastructure, like B.C. I've | done the drive from Washington to Alaska twice, and once _the_ | road was washed out somewhere not terribly far north of | Vancouver, which necessitated a near 1,100 KM detour inland! | Scoundreller wrote: | I think this event is going to lead to Canada dropping or | reducing its PCR test requirement for (re-)entry into Canada. | | The US is still well connected while Canada has just broken | itself in 2. | myohmy wrote: | Nah, that won't happen. International affairs are handled by | Ottawa, which is 4000 km away and completely unaffected by this | crisis. | arduinomancer wrote: | Really? | | https://twitter.com/peterjontheair/status/146071735654868992. | .. | sys_64738 wrote: | As we say in Maine, you can't get there from here. | tablespoon wrote: | > The only way to drive between the coast and the rest of Canada | at this time is through the United States. | | Doesn't a large fraction of trans-Canada road traffic transit | through the US anyway, because it's faster that way? | pomian wrote: | Haha! That part of the highway is about 2500 miles, to the | east. | iainctduncan wrote: | Some chopper footage of just how bad the road damage is. This is | not getting fixed in a long damn time. | | https://twitter.com/RobinMonks/status/1460690606410194949 | rubylark wrote: | A different article[1] I read with a similar headline has this | claim: | | > To leave the Lower Mainland of BC, you would have to use | Highway 99, Highway 1, or the Coquihalla. | | I'm not at all familiar with the area. Are there really only 3 | roads between Vancouver and the rest of Canada without going | through Washington? That seems like such a low number. | | [1] https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/highway-closures-flooding- | mu... | jcranmer wrote: | Depends on how you count. | | Vancouver is on the mouth of Fraser River on basically a | combination of glacial scouring and sandy infill. The coast | immediately adjacent to Vancouver (and indeed, even somewhat | inland) is basically your typical fjord system. Thus, Vancouver | is surrounded by the west by the Salish Sea, and mountains on | all other sides, asides from the sandy coast that stretches | south towards Seattle. | | Crossing from Vancouver to the Canadian plains requires | crossing two main mountain ranges--the Pacific range and the | Rocky Mountains. The main river systems here are oriented | primarily in a north-south direction, which means they aren't a | great help in finding water gaps in the mountains. However, the | next major cities to the east in Canada are Edmonton and | Calgary, which means any natural highway route is going to want | to generally veer north out of Vancouver anyways. | | There are basically three crossings of the Continental Divide | worth mentioning in lower British Columbia: Highway 16 (the | road to Edmonton), Highway 1 (the road to Calgary), and Highway | 3 (which hugs the border). In the Pacific Range, these dwindle | down to three highways leaving Vancouver itself, Highway 7 and | Highway 1 that leave on the north and south banks of the Fraser | respectively, and Highway 99 that jumps over to the next fjord | north before making its way inland. Somewhat upstream of | Vancouver, at Hope, Highway 1 crosses the river and meets up | with Highway 7 to continue following the Fraser River due | north, while Highway 5 heads vaguely northeast along the | Coquihalla, and Highway 3 splits off from Highway 5 shortly | thereafter to continue primarily east near the border. Between | the two mountain ranges, the connections of roads is rather | more complicated, but either way, you're going to filter down | to the same bottlenecks when crossing one of the mountains. | | And all of those roads I described crossing the Pacific Range? | Every single one of them spend substantial portions of its time | in a narrow river valley and is currently severed in several | places because of washouts. However many roads you want to | count it--they are _all_ cut right now. | deanCommie wrote: | It's actually worse than that - it's only Highway 1 and Highway | 99 | | Highway 1 splits into the #1, the #5 (The Coquihalla), and the | #3 after Hope, which is after Abbostsford. | | https://www.google.com/maps/@49.4275117,-121.4567432,10.54z | ghaff wrote: | Vancouver is essentially surrounded by a combination of water, | mountains, and the United States (with more mountains). In | general, there aren't a lot of routes through mountain ranges. | Tiktaalik wrote: | Open up the google maps of BC and turn on satellite view and | you'll see why. The whole province is all mountain with the | only roads snaking through the few river valleys and mountain | passes. | | Big province, but remarkably little actual habitable land. | int_19h wrote: | Better yet, switch to the "Terrain" layer, which specifically | shows elevation: | | https://www.google.com/maps/@48.9495363,-122.5413925,8.33z/d. | .. | foofoo55 wrote: | Yes. Vancouver sits in a little triangle of land in the south- | west (bottom-left?) corner of Canada, completely surrounded by | mountains to the north and east. We heavily rely on the highway | south through the state of Washington. | dn3500 wrote: | Could you take the ferry to Prince Rupert and get out that | way? | cf100clunk wrote: | BC Ferries has umpteen travel advisories due to high seas | during this weather event, so don't count on their | schedule: | | https://www.bcferries.com/ | elihu wrote: | That's a really long route and the ferries don't carry that | many people compared to a road. | | (I once took a ferry from Prince Rupert to Skidegate on the | Queen Charlotte islands and back. It was an 800 passenger | ferry, temporarily replacing a 300 passenger ferry I think | on the same route which was taken out of service for | maintenance. The ferry in question was the ill-fated Queen | of the North, which ran aground on a different route a few | years later and sank.) | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Queen_of_the_North | Maursault wrote: | Re: MV Queen of the North, a 20 minute ferry ride is | thrilling. A couple of hours is too long. The QotN route | was 14 hours?! Terrifying ordinarily, then exponentially | so on its last voyage. | mikestew wrote: | I mean this with no snark at all: go look at a map of BC. For a | lot of that province, _three_ roads going in and out is luxury, | must be a big city or something. Go not terribly far north of | Vancouver, and for a lot of populated areas there is _the_ | road. | dreamcompiler wrote: | I'd expect this to be a bigger problem for Edmonton and Calgary | than for Vancouver. The former cities now have no road access to | the port of Vancouver. | spullara wrote: | The title of the article is inaccurate and clickbait. You can | drive to the rest of Canada by going through the US, as is stated | in the article. | seryoiupfurds wrote: | If you had to go through Mexico to get out of San Diego it | would still be a really big deal, and would be commonly | described as "cut off from the rest of the US." | ortusdux wrote: | Forks WA is currently completely inaccessible by car. Extensive | flooding everywhere. All highways and roads are closed. | Connecting forest service roads have washed out. | seanmcdirmid wrote: | I5 around Bellingham was cut off yesterday night, and all the | highways that ran parallel to it have issues. Right now, south | bound lanes open only. So you can escape Vancouver, but you | can't get back in. | jjulius wrote: | >So you can escape Vancouver, but you can't get back in. | | Yes you can. | | >WSDOT said detours would happen on the northbound side at | exit 242, with drivers getting back on at North Lake Samish | Drive. | | https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/i-5-near-bellingham- | closed-... | seanmcdirmid wrote: | Oh, that's better then. | qmarchi wrote: | Yeah, my fiancee's grandparents sent us pictures of the there | camp being completely flooded. | ortusdux wrote: | Forks is famous or its rain, but yesterday was the worst in | recent memory. Several rivers hit record flood levels. | | It's pretty rough. A friend got stuck out there around 9AM | yesterday. He is use to closures and taking forest road | detours, but we checked with DOT and DNR and all routes were | closed. We tried to set him up with a hotel, but most in | Forks were flooded by noon. I've seen videos of people | boating down main street. | | A friend has a AirBNB out there and the one grocery store in | town is on high ground, so luckily my stuck friend had a | comfortable night. We found a trail out, so he parked his | company truck at the head and is hiking the 4 miles out. | Another friend should be picking him up in a few minutes. | | If their grandparents need any help, let me know and I'll see | what I can do. | dave_aiello wrote: | Lower Mainland Secessionists-- this is your moment! | beebs93 wrote: | One of my family members has been stuck just east of Hope, | British Columbia[1] for almost two days now. There is currently | no cell service, but luckily they have a Garmin inReach so we can | communicate via its SMS feature. | | For anybody with friends/family in the area, the BC subreddit | megathread[2] on this is a good starting place to get information | on evacuations, power outage status, road closures, official | relevant Twitter accounts, etc. | | 1: https://goo.gl/maps/CXcNEUmAx8gpF5CTA | | 2: | https://www.reddit.com/r/britishcolumbia/comments/qubkc6/flo... | javajosh wrote: | That garmin is a cool toy, but pricey ($400 for the device plus | $50/mo for unlimited text service). What does your family | member do that they have one? It seems like the kind of thing a | park ranger would have, or that someone might rent before going | on a long hike in a remote area. | ghaff wrote: | I don't have one personally but if I did more solo hiking in | more remote areas, especially in the Western US I'd probably | break down and get one. Cell service isn't dependable and I'd | likely convince myself that it was cheap insurance in the | grand scheme of things. | | Of course, people managed for a very long time without having | the ability to call for help or check in and they generally | were OK with that. (And calling for help doesn't mean that | Superman is going to swoop in and pick you up anyway.) But | they're probably a reasonable safety aid if you're somewhere | that doesn't have reliable cell service. | ashtonkem wrote: | People also died in the back woods a lot more than they do | now. There are tons of injuries that go from minor to fatal | if you don't have timely rescue. A rescue beacon or call | doesn't guarantee a good outcome, but it drastically | changes the odds. | ghaff wrote: | >People also died in the back woods a lot more than they | do now. | | That certainly could be true although I suspect a lot of | people are also less prepared/careful today because they | assume they can just call for help. And then they end up | with a dead battery, no cell reception, or conditions are | just such that rescue is delayed. | | That said, a cell phone probably should be on your "10 | things to carry" list these days. And I could certainly | be convinced that an inReach-like things should be too if | you're regularly off by yourself in areas without a lot | of people. | ashtonkem wrote: | Also, more people are in the back woods these days for | recreational purposes rather than pure necessity, which | also confounds the numbers. The relationship between | safety gear and risk taking attitudes seems to be | relatively complicated, and none of the sources I've read | have managed to pin down whether or not safety equipment | reliably produced more risk taking behavior. | | Still, if I was in the habit of going further afield than | your typical day hiker, or lived in a remote area, I | think a rescue beacon would be a minimum requirement. An | inReach gives you rescue functionality and GPS, so it's | kind of a win win. | | The rumors of a satellite enabled iPhone might change | this calculus again. Time will tell on that one. | int_19h wrote: | Even for a typical day hikers these things can save | lives. It's surprisingly common for people to get lost a | couple hundred yards off the trail, and even remain close | to the trail even as they wander around all lost. This | can easily happen on a day hike. | emodendroket wrote: | Compared to when? It's not like hiking is some new fad. | ashtonkem wrote: | Certain recreational activities are in fact new as | hobbies, at least at scale. Skiing, mountaineering, and | camping were once things you did out of necessity, not | for funsies. | | For example, our records for recreational skiing stretch | back basically 300 years. Mountaineering has been done | practically forever, but as a mass hobby it's also | basically 250 or so years old. The idea that you'd do it | for fun rather than as a spiritual quest or to catch a | lost sheep is a fairly new idea. | | Hiking is a bit more debatable. Humans have walked on | local trails for practical and recreational purposes | forever. Some European trails are clearly very old, so | that's hardly new. But I think the idea of _backpacking_ | deep into the woods for fun has exploded in popularity | over the past century, and certainly got a huge kick in | the pants with the creation of the national park system. | emodendroket wrote: | Well, whether we mean the past century or the basically | the entire existence of the United States, it's certainly | much older than the GPS devices we're talking about, | which was the sort of timeframe I had in mind when I said | it is not a "fad." If we mean a couple hundred years then | we could also call driving a car newfangled and faddish. | ghaff wrote: | Here is one set of stats showing significant growth in | hiking from 2006 through 2019: | https://www.statista.com/statistics/191240/participants- | in-h... | | This is consistent with other data I've seen. | thaumasiotes wrote: | > But I think the idea of backpacking deep into the woods | for fun has exploded in popularity over the past century | | Have you heard about Robin Hood? ;D | [deleted] | ghaff wrote: | Pre-COVID many outdoor recreational activities as | measured by stats like national park visits were up. | (Some others like skiing I believe were down.) But | without digging up a lot numbers, the parent's basic | point squares with my understanding. | birdyrooster wrote: | Backpacking, through-hiking, etc | prova_modena wrote: | Pricey, but priceless for someone who is spending even a | moderate amount of time enjoying the backcountry. In context, | a typical REI-equipped backpacker is spending $100+ on boots, | $200+ on a tent, $200+ on a pack, $100+ per piece of high | quality outerwear, not to mention hundreds or thousands more | on skis/bikes/climbing gear if they do more than just | hike/backpack. When you're laying out that amount of cash | just to go out and do your favorite activity, it makes sense | and is fairly common to spend an additional $400 for a | convenient portable distress/backcountry connectivity plan. | porkloin wrote: | I live in a very rural area of the US, so I probably have an | over-representative sample, but mostly folks I know who own | one (myself included) view it at as an essential piece of | backcountry safety equipment. If you spend 1 or 2 weekends | per month in areas without cell signal (even recreationally, | as is my case), it quickly becomes worthwhile even just as a | means of emergency communication for people to contact _you_, | not to mention the ability to call for rescue if you're | unfortunate enough to have an accident where you need to be | medivac'd. | fragmede wrote: | How many of those people have a PS5 ($400+, depending on | edition), PS4 ($400 at launch) or some flavor of Xbox ($400 | or so, depending on edition). I have friends who own | multiple game consoles and don't consider it unrestrained | opulence that owning a Garmin Inreach supposedly | represents. | throaway46546 wrote: | >PS5 ($400+, depending on edition) | | I wish. | scruple wrote: | I own one because I backpack and frequently go quite deep in | the back country (err, at least I used to before having | children, but I intend to get back out there once they're a | little bit older). | stevenwoo wrote: | There are several areas within 5-10 miles of Apple's | Cupertino HQ that have no cell service - the nearby mountains | lead to valleys where I assume it's not economical to install | cell towers. | ghaff wrote: | I was in both Napa and Point Reyes a couple weeks back and | the AT&T cell reception was pretty hit or miss. Heck, I'm | about 45 miles west of Boston and the cell reception at my | house is at least variable. | mikestew wrote: | _What does your family member do that they have one?_ | | Goes on a hike and realizes that a lot of BC doesn't have any | cell service? | | I haven't used mine for an actual emergency, but it did come | in handy in Yukon with an irreparable motorcycle tire. I | mostly use it as a backcountry text message device to let the | spouse know I'm not dead, or just general chat if I have | messages left. Regardless, "long hike in a remote area" | defines even a lot of day hikes in WA state, let alone the | interior of BC. There probably isn't a month that goes by | that I don't grab mine for one remote adventure or another. | cf100clunk wrote: | There are still some of us who have CB radios (with all | their limitations acknowledged) in our vehicles for back | country emergency use, and I occasionally see mobile ham | radio operators. A Garmin inReach seems like it would be a | good addition. | Scoundreller wrote: | CBs are good for the forest service roads so you know | when logging trucks are coming or going. | cf100clunk wrote: | You'll need a special VHF radio for that kind of traffic | tracking on Forest Service Roads in BC, and there are | specific usage patterns you must follow: | | https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/industry/natural- | resource... | | A CB radio doesn't help much with that, but it is just | another means of possibly getting contact with others. | Scoundreller wrote: | Ahhh, I remember it being possible on one of the | Baofeng's that can do almost anything. | | Transmitting may require licensing, but listening should | be fine. | vel0city wrote: | Citizen-Band "CB" is a pretty specific type of AM radio | limited to a number of defined channels around 27MHz. | | Those Baofeng radios are VHF/UHF (140MHz/440MHz) FM | radios, not "CB". If you had a Baofeng, and your buddy | had a CB, there is no good way they would be able to | communicate. These radios can operate in a wide range of | frequencies with various levels of legality. But yeah in | the US and Canada its generally legal to receive a | transmission...other than maybe old cellular phones but | that's another complicated mess. | [deleted] | cf100clunk wrote: | I'm pretty sure the parent wasn't commenting on tracking | CB radio, just the FSR VHF traffic I mentioned. | vel0city wrote: | I think so as well, but it looks like they had their | terminology confused. They used the term CB originally, | then talked about using a Baofeng. I'm just pointing out | that CB is something very different from VHF FM. Many lay | people see a radio with a handmike and think "CB". | cf100clunk wrote: | That's an excellent point - using the channel maps at the | site I linked to above, there is nothing to stop someone | with a scanner keeping informed of FSR traffic. | | Just one other point: on an FSR an average person's | general sense of traffic "right of way" is generally | wrong and can result in some terrible accidents far from | help. To wit: the bus crash involving UBC students | outside Bamfield. | soperj wrote: | Pretty sure that was UVic students. | cf100clunk wrote: | Yes, you are correct. | beebs93 wrote: | Agreed. | | Said family member mentioned in the parent thread keeps a | handheld radio (I don't know the exact tech specs, sorry) | for such occasions. That said, they mostly use it to just | listen for any logging trucks calling out checkpoints so | they can avoid getting in their way when travelling to | their remote campsites. | | Coupled with a Garmin inReach w/ backcountry maps | installed, it gives us peace of mind in case something | goes wrong out in the bush. | randomfool wrote: | They're super common now for backcountry hikers and trail | runners. The plans start at $15 a month on a per-month plan | (no lock in). | | There has been speculation that Apple would build this into | their phones, which IMHO would be a killer feature. Imagine | having an emergency feature that could be used anywhere on | earth. How much would you pay per text? $5 per text message | would be an absolute bargain in many of these remote | locations. | shagie wrote: | > There has been speculation that Apple would build this | into their phones | | I'm not sure how... the InReach (and similar products) are | a Iridium satellite communication system that requires a | bit more heft in the signal (up and down). | | When you look at the iridium phones ( | https://www.iridium.com/product-type/satellite-phones/ ) | those aren't small things (look at the antennas). | | Then you've got: | | > Enhanced Battery Life Up to (4) hours of talk time, (30) | hours of standby | | for a non-smart phone. | | I'm not sure how Apple would be able to incorporate a "no | cell phone tower in sight" system... without also packing | on the rest of the iridium system and making a much more | bulky device. | nickvanw wrote: | There are a number of providers that have been purporting | to be on the edge of offering Satellite coverage to | existing cellphones: | | - https://ast-science.com/spacemobile/ | | - https://lynk.world | | The former even inked a partnership with AT&T and | Vodafone: https://www.lightreading.com/ossbss/vodafone- | atandt-sign-up-... | | It looks like they've even successfully tested it: | https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/29/lynk-demos-global- | satellit... | | This would likely be a very high-cost option, but it does | seem to be possible. The key is that these satellites are | much closer to earth than Iridium, I guess. | ghaff wrote: | When there was speculation before the consensus seemed to | be it was unlikely for technical reasons. | | Also, while sure it would be nice if something were a | no/low-cost add-on to a regular smartphone, the average | consumer probably wouldn't pay much extra, much less an | incremental subscription fee. And there's something to be | said for a rugged, potentially safety-critical, | standalone device that's separate from your phone. | nradov wrote: | Garmin inReach devices are very small. They only support | messaging, not voice phone calls, so the antennas are | short and battery life is pretty good. It could be | completely possible to integrate that functionality into | a large smartphone. | Eric_WVGG wrote: | when you're stranded in the tundra and the garmin is your | only contact to civilization, it's the smartphone that's a | toy | nathancahill wrote: | You can buy them used for cheaper, and pay $15/mo when you | need it (backpacking trips, etc) and pause the service the | rest of the time. The preset messages are unlimited across | all plans. | beebs93 wrote: | They frequently go camping with their family in the interior | of BC so they always have one for emergencies. I agree they | can be pricey, but it obviously paid for itself just in this | situation alone :) | ashtonkem wrote: | You don't have to be particularly intense to find value in a | full fledged GPS. We just do a lot of day hikes and a few | overnighters, and the 64st ($300-400) has been immensely | valuable. Considering that the inreach eliminates the need | for a separate rescue beacon, that's a cost and weight | savings. If you're even more marginally intense than I, one | of these is less a toy and more a life saving necessity. | | Dedicated GPS units are faster, more reliable, and easier to | keep going in the field than your phone. You'll never have | them display a blank square because you lost LTE and it | didn't buffer that map segment. A lot of them will also | record your hikes for overlay onto Google Earth later, which | is nice. I personally have a large number of the local hot | springs recorded into mine, which is very important when | they're off road and off trail. | Scoundreller wrote: | It's too bad google offline maps only supports driving | directions. | int_19h wrote: | For hiking specifically, OsmAnd is what you'd want | anyway: | | https://osmand.net/ | | You can download as many offline maps as you want (the | entire US can fit quite easily on modern phones), you get | offline pathfinding, and offline maps have elevation | contour lines and hill shading. The maps themselves are | also much more detailed compared to Google or Apple when | it comes to hiking trails. | ashtonkem wrote: | Most of these smart phone apps are pretty bad at | providing even driving directions in the back country. | Plenty of times I've had either Apple or Google fail to | recognize a forest service road, which I presume is in a | freely available file somewhere, and tell me to park and | walk miles to the trailhead. I've learned the hard lesson | to have a backup plan just for navigating to the | trailhead, let alone once I'm on the trail. | ghaff wrote: | This gets back to whether the road in question is | something you should direct the average smartphone user | down given that they'll probably blindly follow the | instructions. In many cases, the answer is no. If they | know (or tink they know what they're doing), they can | make their own decisions. | | I'd actually much rather a smartphone routing algorithm | err on the side of caution in this regard. | progman32 wrote: | Not saying dedicated units are not useful, but there are | local-only mapping applications for smartphones, too. | OsmAnd is a good example, it uses OpenStreetMap data which | can be downloaded to local storage (by region). It supports | local-only driving/walking/transit directions, too. | luggage_problem wrote: | I know a decent number of folks in the Washington | ski/climb/do-things-in-remote-areas scene who have em, though | more common is the type that doesn't let you sms and doesn't | have a monthly fee (basically a please help or I'm not | getting home button). That said most of my friends with | inreaches don't have the unlimited sms plan, and just budget | the limited number for check-ins. | int_19h wrote: | For pure emergency location beacons, there's an option that | does not require any monthly fees at all: | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Cospas- | Sarsat_Pr... | | And yes, it's generally a good idea for anybody hiking in | areas without cell phone reception - even if it's not | particularly far out from populated areas! I live in North | Bend, WA, and it feels like almost every year there's at | least one hiker lost on one of the popular local trails. | Sometimes they get lucky: | | https://www.kuow.org/stories/this-hiker-survived-9-days- | with... | | https://fox11online.com/news/nation-world/you-go-from- | hope-t... | | And sometimes they don't: | | https://livingsnoqualmie.com/search-suspended-russian- | hiker-... | | https://livingsnoqualmie.com/hiker-still-missing-in- | middle-f... | | I mentally shudder every time I go hiking there, and see | all the people dressed in cotton clothing and wearing | street shoes (or even flip flops!) as they head towards the | trail from the trailhead parking lot. Maybe there's | something about well-maintained trails that promotes a | false sense of security? Like, it looks neat and well- | travelled, there's plenty of signage, so what could | possibly go wrong? And it mostly doesn't - but when it | does, it can get real bad real quick. | dylan604 wrote: | >What does your family member do that they have one? | | They live in Canada, at least those parts of it that makes | this a necessity rather than a luxury. | emodendroket wrote: | The Reddit thread seems to be largely given over to speculation | about the complete collapse of society globally which is, in my | opinion, getting just a little bit carried away and anyway not | really informative. | deanCommie wrote: | I mean yes, but when your province experiences over a 4 month | period: | | * Record heat wave * Record forest fires * Record rainfall * | Tornadoes for the first time in history * And now record | flooding | | It's hard not to feel a little apocalyptic. | | Especially while most of the people in charge and seemingly | 60% of the voters still want to hand-wave these away as one- | offs, and unusual, ignoring the trend or the density of | unusual/record event. | emodendroket wrote: | I think things can get a lot worse without portending "Mad | Max"-style scenarios. | beebs93 wrote: | Yeah, I noticed that a bit, too. I originally meant the | megathread post itself. I try not to read too many comments | in such threads on Reddit; regardless of the topic ;) | jcroll wrote: | . | bikesandcode wrote: | For that route, ultimately you'd need to take Highway 99 | through Lillooet, which is closed between there and Pemberton. | | Or cut down to Highway 1 in the Fraser Canyon. Which is closed. | As you noted, the two more convenient routes, highways 3 and 5 | are closed as well. | | And that's it for Canadian land routes into Vancouver. There | just aren't any additional routes through the mountains. | imadethis wrote: | Yes, this is addressed in the article. Highway 99 was closed | this morning. | [deleted] | boborhythm wrote: | Interestingly, there is a railroad line that goes north from | Vancouver, through Whistler and Pemberton, but takes a different | route than Highway 99 to get to Lillooet[1]. The highway (aka The | Duffey, as it passes Duffey Lake) gains and then loses something | like 1000m of elevation, whereas the railroad line is much | flatter and travels along Gates Lake, Anderson Lake, and Seton | Lake. There are dirt/gravel roads there too, but I'm not sure if | they are used in the winter. | | The railroad route is not used much these days, partly because of | all the trains that fell into the lake due to how windy (edit: | that's windy as in lots of turns, not windy as in lots of air | blowing over it) the track is (e.g. [2]). | | 1: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=10/50.5405/-122.6157 | | 2: https://www.trailtimes.ca/news/cn-freight-train-derails- | alon... | pomian wrote: | Some of that was closed due to huge forest fire, which also | caused land slides. | lepton wrote: | "tortuous" is the word you're wanting there. :) | [deleted] | tra3 wrote: | The Hurley and the Highline roads typically become snowmobile | only. I saw on Facebook somewhere that there was a slide on | highline and that a truck/trailer RV combo jackknifed in the | middle. | joemi wrote: | I wonder if this will affect filming in any serious way. Might be | too early to tell, but can anyone knowledgeable of the Vancouver | film industry comment? | jleyank wrote: | Port Roberts commandos strike. Canada should investigate which | Intelligence organs were funding their efforts... | | This, of course, means that supplies of bread, milk and cat | litter have vanished amongst rioting. | jleyank wrote: | I admire the sense of geography and humour shown here. Yet | people prattle on about politics. Hackers smiled when I was | young. | foofoo55 wrote: | Railways to the east are also washed out. [1] And the farm | country in the cities of Abbotsford and Chilliwack to the east of | Vancouver, which supplies most of the local dairy & poultry, is | now either completely flooded or cut off. [2] | | [1] https://www.radionl.com/2021/11/15/cn-cp-trains-out-of- | servi... | | [2] https://www.abbynews.com/news/immediate-evacuation-order- | due... | cf100clunk wrote: | Princeton and Merritt are likewise in very dire circumstances. | lhorie wrote: | For just a bit of context/anecdata, I'm talking to my brother who | lives in Vancouver and he wasn't even aware this was a problem. | The road closure[0] on hwy 1 near Abbotsford/Chilliwack is a good | one hour drive away from Vancouver core[1]. So while it sounds | noteworthy for an entire city be technically flooded in, unless | you were driving to the boonies, you're probably not actually | impacted in any meaningful way. | | He also mentioned the weather cleared since yesterday, so floods | should start to subside. You can follow the updates here[2] | | [0] https://www.drivebc.ca/mobile/pub/events/id/DBC-35180.html | | [1] | https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Vancouver,+BC,+Canada/Abbots... | | [2] https://www.drivebc.ca/#listView | vmception wrote: | The floods arent the issue the highway washed away | [deleted] | [deleted] | csel wrote: | Son has a hockey tournament next week in Vernon, BC. Due to | road closure, Google Maps is sending me to Washington State and | back into Canada. Absolutely wild. | | https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Surrey,+BC/Vernon,+BC/@48.86... | tehjoker wrote: | Doesn't this affect deliveries of needed supplies to the city? | I guess the port and railways are not impacted, but I would | think roads carry some significant cargo. | inasio wrote: | Some (not sure if all) railway tracks were also affected [0]. | There are two tracks that go into Vancouver (CN and CP have | each their own I believe), not sure if both were affected. | Keep in mind that the train also works as a pipeline of sorts | for the Alberta oil, and a ton of coal comes from the eastern | BC border by train. And on that note, I heard speculation | that the actual pipelines may have also been affected. | | https://twitter.com/TranBC/status/1460391772304064517?ref_sr. | .. | rsync wrote: | "So while it sounds noteworthy for an entire city be | technically flooded in, unless you were driving to the boonies, | you're probably not actually impacted in any meaningful way." | | Where do truck shipments come into Vancouver from ? | | Is it all through the US/CA border ? | cbhl wrote: | Isn't Vancouver a port city? I imagine there'd be more truck | shipments out, eastwards towards the rest of Canada. | arcticbull wrote: | They should be able to continue, albeit delayed, via the | US. | | Should be possible to head south into Washington State and | re-enter Canada at Oroville-Osoyoos. | rrix2 wrote: | sure, they just have to hope the north cascades highway | is open when the snow-levels are already lowering from | these storms. Usually that highway is closed during the | winter season | lhorie wrote: | I wouldn't worry about shipments _into_ town. Suez was out | for like a week and the world managed more or less just fine. | LA port is backlogged to the wazoo but nobody is starving | because of it. My understanding is that the Vancouver | situation is only 1-2 days old so far, so there 's probably | not that much reason for alarm unless damage to every single | artery turn out to be serious. Worst comes to worst, the US | road is still open. | soperj wrote: | There's already massive waits at the port of Vancouver. | Some stuff is taking a month just to be unloaded from ships | waiting, and that was before this. | jacquesm wrote: | "The boonies", does that include Calgary? There is quite a bit | of road traffic between Vancouver and Calgary via Kamloops and | Banff. Or did you mean just West of the Rockies? | lhorie wrote: | Sorry, "boonies" might have been a bit of a callous choice of | words. Reading more about it, it sounds like the folks at | Abbotsford, Hope and surrounding areas are having a pretty | lousy time right now. | jacquesm wrote: | To me the 'boonies' in Canada is west of Timmins, East of | Wawa and North of Desbarats in Ontario, and anything North | of Kamloops in BC. The roads in BC are very critical | infrastructure, there aren't that many of them to begin | with and there are a lot of choke points on the downslopes | of mountain ranges where you have to pass through, | unfortunately it looks as though that's where the road | outages are. | | Canada is an amazing country scenery wise, but it is also a | very thin veneer of civilization on top of a very rugged | countryside and it doesn't take much to turn it from | workable into unconnected islands overnight. Let's hope | that they manage to keep the power running and some way to | keep those communities supplied because with winter on the | way that can get ugly really quickly. | | Canadians are usually pretty self sufficient but without | roads I'm not sure how that would work. | iainctduncan wrote: | the whole post was callous frankly | brailsafe wrote: | Heh, I think they meant everywhere between Vancouver and | Toronto | iainctduncan wrote: | This is complete bullshit. EVERYONE is affected. Honestly, just | read the BC news. If they think they aren't affected, then they | don't understand BC supply chains and haven't noticed... yet. | curmudgeon22 wrote: | I'm in Burnaby. It was really rainy and windy for a couple | days, but I haven't been meaningfully impacted so far. | | For sure it was a major storm with some major impacts, but I | think most people in the lower mainland weren't severely | impacted. | cf100clunk wrote: | If you mean for just today for someone in a less-impacted | area of the Lower Mainland, that's an acceptable if | minimalist answer, but saying "most people" is very | problematic in the light of a huge amount of evidence from | primary sources. | iainctduncan wrote: | I guess they haven't read yet on how damaged the supply | chain is going to be then. This is not "we'll fix it up in | a few weeks" road damage, it's more like major shipping | roads in BC are going to be affected for through the worst | of the winter here. | lhorie wrote: | To be fair, I just found out about this literally from | the link at the top of this page, a couple of hours ago. | Not exactly enough time to become an expert in supply | chain logistics in a province I don't even live in. | | I'm reading now that there's already some stress due to | displacements from the Lytton fire earlier this year, and | displacements from Abbotsford, Merritt, etc are not gonna | help the situation. I'm still trying to piece together | the wider scope of the incident and don't yet have a good | sense of what the overall damage looks like (though it | increasingly looks like it isn't merely "a few key | bridges happened to have flooded, it'll be fine once the | water recedes" and it's more like "there are several | landslides blocking roads along the route to Calgary and | we're gonna be scrambling to staff the clean up efforts | in time for winter"). | | On the one hand, you just need enough room for a truck to | pass through, dirt road carved by a tractor as it might | be, in order to establish a supply line. On the other | hand, given that some communities barely only ever had | that in the first place, I imagine many might need to | figure out plan B arrangements. | iainctduncan wrote: | Look, it's not "roads blocked". We're not talking "move | the dirt and it'll be ok". The roads are GONE. | | Bridges and huge sections of the most important highways | are now rubble floating down rivers with _nothing there | anymore_. This is in some of the most difficult terrain | to rebuild in that you could have. People who know what | they are talking about are saying we are short highways | through the winter. | | Here's some chopper footage: | https://twitter.com/RobinMonks/status/1460690606410194949 | | City folks who think this was just some rain are nothing | but evidence of how disconnected city people can become | from the infrastructure on which they depend. | lhorie wrote: | Oh wow, that's crazy. Thanks for sharing that. | pomian wrote: | If you live in Vancouver and are staying there it is not an | issue. But there is an amazing huge scale issue of access to | the interior of British Columbia. 2 out of 3 highways from | Alberta are closed. That means you have to drive either an ~ | extra 500 miles north, or south, to travel 50-100 miles west or | east. There is no way to travel across a whole region of a huge | country. Similar to closing all east west highways in southern | California, from the Mexico border to lake Tahoe. Sure , you | can drive down to Mexico, across to Tijuana, and back up. | skeeter2020 wrote: | The big issue is that the port in Vancouver is now essentially | an island. Rail is impacted by this as well. | Scoundreller wrote: | The CP mainline that washed out will take a while to fix, but | the other mainline, CN, doesn't seem to have taken any | serious damage. | | They'll definitely have some cleanup somewhere, but that | happens after every storm. | | I _hope_ the two have some mutual aid agreement to bypass | over each others tracks. | seryoiupfurds wrote: | As far as I understand it, they already share their tracks | in routine service, using one westbound and the other | eastbound. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double- | track_railway#Direction... | | > A similar example exists in the Fraser Canyon in British | Columbia, Canadian National and Canadian Pacific each own a | single track line - often on either side of the river. The | companies have a joint arrangement where they share | resources and operate the canyon as a double track line | between meeting points near Mission and Ashcroft.[22] | Scoundreller wrote: | "Competitors" sharing networks is such a Canadian | tradition. | | Just like 2 of our 3 big cellular companies (Bell and | Telus) sharing a single network. | version_five wrote: | I'm guessing its your point, but to spell it out, canada | has oligopolies or monopolies, it doesnt have competitors | at least in telecom and banking. From what I understand | (like the recent Kansas? railway acquisition) CN and CP | may actually be more in competition than some other | industries. There is some complexity because part of the | tradeoff for being granted oligo/monopoly status is the | requirement to allow others on their network (e.g. for | telco so maybe also for rail - I know they have to let | Via, even if it's on a low priority basis). But overall, | the business environment in canada is much closer to some | kind of aristocracy or feudal system than an actual | competitive landscape. Maybe that's true everywhere and | just not as easy to see. | [deleted] | arcticbull wrote: | It's essentially a peninsula, it still has road and rail | links to Washington State. | adrianpike wrote: | Northbound I5 is flooded in Washington, however, so still | not a great route for the next day or so: | https://twitter.com/wspd7pio/status/1460623860944932864 | bialpio wrote: | It's effectively become a Canadian version of Port Roberts. | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington | iso1631 wrote: | Except Point Roberts (not Port) is just a residential | area that isn't self sufficient in any way, and doesn't | have thousands of containers arriving for shipping inland | bialpio wrote: | Sigh, brain lag. At least the wiki link I pasted was | correct. | | Nothing to add to your point about self-sufficiency, my | intent was to draw parallels to the comment I was | responding to. ("It's [Vancouver] essentially a | peninsula, it still has road and rail links to Washington | State." <=> "It's [Point Roberts] a peninsula, it still | has road links to British Columbia."). | time_to_smile wrote: | You could just as easily infer from this anecdata that people | that live in cities tend to be very insulated from the | infrastructure and larger support systems required to maintain | their way of life... | | ...but Everything is Fine is an equally strong conclusion. | zaptheimpaler wrote: | I live in Vancouver and had no idea until a friend in another | country saw the news and asked me about it. Not to say people | elsewhere in BC weren't impacted (one town had to evacuate) but | the media is not painting an accurate picture. | lhorie wrote: | Yeah, the evacuation order in Abbotsford[0] seems like the | real news to me. | | [0] https://www.abbotsford.ca/alerts/evacuation-order-and- | alerts... | soperj wrote: | Merritt seemed big as well. | cf100clunk wrote: | Perhaps the picture being painted by the media is not being | accurately assimilated by you? This is real, and magnitude of | the circumstances is dire. | arcticbull wrote: | Dire in what way? Vancouver still has the YVR airport, a | seaport, ferries, a downtown float plane airport and both | road and rail access to the US. There will be some impact | to prices, I imagine, while the road and rail links to the | rest of Canada are rebuilt. | cf100clunk wrote: | Dire for Merritt (evacuated), Princeton (under water), | Hope (all highways closed or curtailed), Abbotsford | (under water), Chilliwack (under water), Fernie (no | highway access) and a host of other places on the | mainland and on the Island that are vital transport, | agricultural, forestry, tourism, and mining centres. You | mentioned prices, so scale it up to international | economics level. | klyrs wrote: | If I had a nickel for every time folks have suggested | moving out to the country as a solution to the housing | crisis... | cf100clunk wrote: | He he, and if I had 4 million nickels I _might_ be able | to afford a small home in Metro Vancouver. | | [EDIT] see reply - should say 40 million but what the | heck, I ruined the joke. | ant6n wrote: | You _might_ be able to afford a small home for 200K?? I | thought Vancouver was much more expensive than that. Or | do you mean only the down payment. | arcticbull wrote: | Did someone suggest that? | cf100clunk wrote: | "In the wake of the extreme weather events that continue | to devastate First Nations across BC, the First Nations | Leadership Council (FNLC) calls on the Provincial | government to declare an indefinite State of Emergency in | BC, effective immediately." | | https://www.bcafn.ca/news/fnlc-calls-state-emergency-due- | unp... | nitrogen wrote: | I'm totally unfamiliar with the geography there; are | peripheral cities and towns around Vancouver as | unaffected as Vancouver itself? I can imagine it | happening in some places I've lived, where the central | city is humming along just fine and everyone inside the | city is blind to the 50% of the population around the | city that just got stranded and cut off from supplies. | singingboyo wrote: | Depends what you consider peripheral. The places within a | couple hours big enough to notice as you drive through | are basically Lions Bay/Squamish going north, Maple | Ridge/Mission on the 7, and Abbotsford/Chillwack/Hope on | highway 1 out the Valley. | | Chilliwack and Hope might be cut off, though I think it's | possible to get there via minor roads/unusual routes. | Abbotsford is partly flooded, but areas that aren't | should be accessible. Lions Bay/Squamish and Maple | Ridge/Mission are fine, as far as I know. | | So if a 1-2 hour drive is the limit, then parts of | Abbotsford/Chilliwack/Hope are pretty miserable right | now, but it should be fairly localised. | | On the other hand, you can argue that most of Southern BC | is "peripheral" to Vancouver, despite parts being 4-5 or | more hours away. Those parts will have more issues, since | you start getting into places where the only connections | are (were) the highways that flooded and washed out. | mmartinson wrote: | More or less. Greater Vancouver suburbs largely | unaffected. Farther out peripherals (Abbotsford, Hope) | badly flooded. All regional towns and cities beyond those | cut off. | [deleted] | suetoniusp wrote: | Perhaps the picture being painted by the media is not an | accurate representation of reality. Get a grip man | cf100clunk wrote: | The parent comment to mine specifically mentioned media | coverage. So, bearing in mind that there are states of | emergency declared throughout the Province Of British | Columbia as a direct consequence of this atmospheric | event, there is plenty of objective primary source | material available to anyone from those authorities | should a person decline to believe media reportage. | vkou wrote: | The picture painted by the media is a pretty accurate | representation of reality. This recent spat of weather | has been pretty horrifying for a lot of people in the | valley. Mudslides, power outages, flooding. My parents | have been dealing with it for the past few days in their | homestead out by Chilliwack, and it's not been great. | | I understand that someone WFH in their swanky Kits | apartments isn't particularly impacted by any of this, | but there does exist a BC outside of Vancouver. | amatecha wrote: | I live in Vancouver - my coworkers and family were very aware | of this, watching footage online and exclaiming at the brutal | nature of the weather and landslides we experienced yesterday. | Never seen this many roads closed in BC in my nearly 4 decades | living here. | iammisc wrote: | I'm not sure about BC, but coastal cities (not the big | ones... the little ones) on the Pacific coast of the states | regularly get 'stranded'. Honestly, as usual, the media | overplays everything. The fact is that Vancouver and most | major coastal cities are not going to be super-affected. The | truth is that -- based on current import patterns -- the rest | of the country is more likely to face shortages than any West | Coast city where all the freight comes in. | cronix wrote: | The whole upper pacific coastline is experiencing it. There | is a lot of flooding along the Oregon coast as well with | cars/trailers floating away and evacuations. Intense rains | for days at a time. I mean we get a lot of rain here, but | this has been pretty crazy and constant. | AutumnCurtain wrote: | Let's hope it migrates further south and relieves some of | the California drought. Any meteorologists have a sense of | the weather patterns at play here? | cbsks wrote: | According to this meteorologist "Drier-than-average | winter still most likely outcome for most of California" | https://weatherwest.com/archives/11748 | lhorie wrote: | Oh, the atmospheric river did hit California, and pretty | hard in some places. Last month was the wettest October | on record here in San Francisco. The area around Dixie | (where there was a big fire earlier this year) saw | landslides. | | According to a podcast I listened to, this pattern might | actually be bad because alternating cycles of extreme | rain and extreme dryness means more vegetation growth | during the wet months which in turn means more fuel to | burn during the dry months. | AutumnCurtain wrote: | The loss of established growth hurts in the rainy season | too as landslides worsen. In our local San Bernardino | mountains here burn patches quickly turn to land or | mudslides. | waiseristy wrote: | Typically it's snowpack that relieves drought. All | torrential rain does is remove topsoil and blow out | bridges | mrtnmcc wrote: | It looks like we will be in another La Nina year, which | means wetter northwest and drier southwest.. | unfortunately. | | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/us/la-nina-california- | dro... | skrebbel wrote: | I'm surprised there's no shortages yet because trucks can't get | to the city. Or does Vancouver import most non-regional goods | from the US (and not the rest of Canada) anyway? | cf100clunk wrote: | The BC Milk Marketing Board has told many of its producers to | begin destroying their output until further notice since | there is no means of transporting it: | | https://bcmilk.com/notice-to-producers-flood-conditions- | and-... | | Vancouver's surrounding agricultural areas, lush as they are, | will now be almost out of commission for an indefinite length | of time. | kazinator wrote: | Dump, dump! Just whatever you don't sell 4 l of organic | milk to a local for five bucks; they will get used to it. | walshemj wrote: | You'd presumably need the herd to be certified to sell | raw milk like that. | | The other option is turn it into cheese | justsid wrote: | The shortage is the other way. The rest of BC gets most of | its produce from the lower mainland. I live in Kelowna (funny | to see a local news site on here), and our stores have | basically no produce because we can't get anything from the | lower mainland. Fun times. | cf100clunk wrote: | Conversely, the outward flow of Okanagan wine products will | be sharply affected. For example, the market for Okanagan | ice wine in Asia is huge. Also, when the Lower Mainland | growing season is done, the produce shipped from Chile and | Peru comes into Vancouver's ports and goes out across | western Canada and the North. | CydeWeys wrote: | At least ice wine is shelf stable for years, right? It's | not like it's gonna go bad; it'll just be a little bit of | a delay until it can be sold. | bobthepanda wrote: | the Trans Canada Highway in some parts is an undivided 2-lane | road, so it wouldn't be surprising for freight to choose to | take something like I-90 instead, though you would have to go | through border checks. | Scoundreller wrote: | Anything going to southern Ontario or Quebec would already | be going through the US if it could because it's faster, | better weather and cheaper gas. The only stuff that wasn't | was stuff that couldn't (can't/won't do the paperwork). | Customs bonding and inspections can be a real pain. | | Canada Post is going to be a real mess though. They either | fly or truck overland domestically. | | I don't think they do any rail. | cf100clunk wrote: | The Trans Canada Highway from Kamloops to Hope was largely | superceded as a trucking route by the more capacious and | direct Coquihalla Highway after 1986. Now the Coquihalla is | in dire condition. | ars wrote: | It has an airport, a ferry terminal, and a port with a | railroad. I suspect trucks are not the main way supplies are | delivered. | cf100clunk wrote: | BC Ferries has a multitude of travel advisories in effect | due to the high seas and winds, so reliability is a | concern. Vancouver has 2 ferry terminals, and both are | subject to the conditions. | lhorie wrote: | Keep in mind that Vancouver is a port city, and the road | closures did not affect roads to the US so for the vast | majority of the people in the city, the impact is likely | minimum. I'd be more worried about disruptions for | municipalities like Hope, which are only connected to | Vancouver by a handful of roads (the next major hub in the | other direction would be Calgary, which is... well, pretty | far away). | fragmede wrote: | _> road closures did not affect roads to the US_ | | The storm that hit which caused the flooding which closed | the roads also hit the Vancouver-adjacent parts of the US, | so some of those are closed as well. | Tiktaalik wrote: | Gas comes through pipeline from refineries in Washington, so | that should be largely unaffected. | | Lots of produce does come from the Fraser Valley which is | impacted, but also North/South links to the USA (ie. we get | heaps of produce from California). | | I assume there's a fair amount of food that is delivered from | the port, as a lot of food packaging warehouses are near the | port. | | Most trade in Canada is North/South aligned. Tbh the | east/west orientation of the country doesn't make a lotta | sense lol. | bialpio wrote: | > we get heaps of produce from California | | Are the prices in line with what those products would cost | in the US (e.g. WA state)? I was under the impression that | the prices in BC were lower, so now I'm wondering if the | price adjustment to account for local markets is | significant or not, or if I misremembered completely. | vkou wrote: | Prices aren't very different than WA state for most | goods, but that's because BC, just like WA, grows a fair | amount of food in the interior. | | Much of its out-of-season produce comes from California, | but that's the case in WA, as well. | | Things like cheese are very expensive in BC, but that's | due to Canada's dairy tax situation. | Tiktaalik wrote: | I feel like the in season (from Fraser Valley) vs not in | season (california or mexico) produce price is only like | maybe a +$1-2 price modifier on things? | | I don't look too closely at my grocery bill, so I'm | probably not the most helpful person to ask. | | I assume all the food is cheaper in the USA than Canada. | frenchyatwork wrote: | My impression are the prices are pretty similar with | exception to dairy, where Canada has more stringent | regulations and therefore prices are slightly higher. | willyt wrote: | Last time I was in New York was a good few years ago, but | I was very surprised how much more expensive supermarket | food was than in the UK, like 3x more. In a huge country | with lots of farmland like the US with less stringent | food regulations in theory food should be cheaper so I'm | curious as to what causes this price difference. | ciabattabread wrote: | New York as in New York City? Everything needs to be | trucked in and out and there are toll bridges everywhere. | Go to the suburbs and food is cheaper. Go further and | it's way cheaper. | soperj wrote: | No it doesn't. Vast majority of the gas is through Trans | Mountain from Alberta. Also, more than half of the oil that | gets refined in Washington comes from an arm of the Trans- | mountain pipeline, so also Alberta. 100% of the fuel used | at the Vancouver airport also comes through trans-mountain. | cf100clunk wrote: | Vancouver is one of Canada's major seaports and air transport | hubs, so there's that. Still, road, rail, and ferry | disruption is extremely troublesome. | soperj wrote: | It's the biggest coal port in North America, so that will | likely be disrupted for a while here. | [deleted] | ryanisnan wrote: | As an anecdote, I live significantly East of Vancouver, but | most of our goods come from the port of Vancouver. Things are | going to get really interesting, as these roads will take a | while to be repaired. | JPKab wrote: | Wait a minute now: | | I've been to Vancouver before, but I"m completely ignorant | about the supply chain there. | | We're talking about a metropolis of 2.5 million people. What's | the impact on food supplies, fuel, etc? Very curious. Is it | primarily coming up from the US??? | kazinator wrote: | Oh your brother will feel the pain when the Whole Foods on | Cambie runs out of those cheap organic bananas from northern | Alberta. | woah wrote: | Most of the population of Canada is within miles of the US | border. For any given city, connection to the US is probably | much more important than connections to other parts of Canada. | hourislate wrote: | >The only way to drive between the coast and the rest of Canada | at this time is through the United States. Residents would need a | COVID-19 test to re-enter Canada | | The Canadian Federal Gov (AKA Trudeau/Tam) are so fucking stupid | requiring Canadians who are vaccinated to get a COVID test (3 | days before, like it helps) before _driving into Canada_. Looks | good on Tam the dumb shit. What a Kakistocracy. | twoheadedboy wrote: | This reminds me of that one south park episode: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W1tWRMoiAI&t=152s | plow-tycoon wrote: | This happens in the prairies from time to time. Last year I got | stuck in a Blizzard on my way to Winnipeg. All highways in the | southern province shut down for a bit. We got stuck in a gully in | the car until a snowplow came and saved us. | [deleted] | theandrewbailey wrote: | I watched a video series of a road trip from Victoria to | somewhere in Yukon.[0] After getting to the mainland and past the | Vancouver metro area, the quality of roads is striking. The | further north they went, the more nothing they saw. | | [0] | https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV_qemO0oath2Wpt7-8jQ... | myohmy wrote: | I've driven that trip many, many times. Its a wonderful drive | if you like peace and quiet. | | Although as my cousin put it, all he saw was "A tree, a rock, a | mountain, a river, and a bear." | InTheArena wrote: | Quick! Invade and size Vancouver while no one is paying | attention. | Kye wrote: | Possibly useless comparison with a similar infrastructure | failure: a section of I-85 on the way between the Atlanta | perimeter and where a lot of people commute from caught on fire | and collapsed. It took a little over a month to repair. That's | with other worse but usable alternate routes, so maybe it'll go | faster here. | huhtenberg wrote: | You can still go around, through the US. | duck wrote: | It might have just opened, but I5 was closed overnight as well | south of Bellingham. | bandrade wrote: | Both directions are reopened as of about 9am PST. | blondie9x wrote: | This is why the border needs to remain open at all times. We | need vital traffic to continue flowing smoothly. | Mikeb85 wrote: | Not without a Covid test, no matter your vaccination status... | ironmagma wrote: | And you can't drive without a driving test. | Mikeb85 wrote: | Terrible analogy. You're not required to take a road test | every 48 hours to continue driving. | | Edit - might be 72 hours. Regardless... I've done a road | test once in my life... | ironmagma wrote: | I drive quite a lot and haven't been required to take a | Covid test after several years of driving during Covid. | Bottom line: if you're crossing an international border, | you're gonna have to do some stuff. | Mikeb85 wrote: | Whooosh... | brewdad wrote: | If you are so hung about about taking a COVID test, I'm | sure there is a 14 day quarantine option available to | you. | Mikeb85 wrote: | I'm double vaxxed. I can enter the EU without a test. I | can enter the US without a test. I can get an EU Green | Pass without a test. | | So why is Canada's policy such? They REQUIRE proof of | vaccination to enter, AND a test? Why? | | Edit - and yes I'm hung up on this. I don't want to pay | $200+ dollars for a test I don't need. I got Covid in | wave 1 before the first lockdown, I've done everything | asked of us; masked, locked down, had to shut down | multiple businesses, got vaccinated as soon as it was | available to me, and they still want to make me take a | useless test? | | I can't decide what's worse; our mediocre government or | the fact any citizens at all support this theatre... | ghaff wrote: | You can't fly into the US without a test, even as a US | citizen and even if you're fully vaccinated. | Mikeb85 wrote: | You can drive through the US without a test. | SkittyDog wrote: | Vaccinated people can still catch, carry, and communicate | COVID to others... and if you got vaccinated before the | summer, your antibody levels are probably not as high as you | think. Vaccination is not a binary thing, in terms of how it | actually works. | | If an unvaccinated person catches COVID from you, it doesn't | matter whether or not you (the carrier) were vaccinated... | The virus that ravages and possibly kills your subsequent | victim is just as dangerous to the unvaccinated. | Mikeb85 wrote: | Yes, definitely going to catch Covid in your car, driving | through the US to get around the flooded out highways... | helloworld11 wrote: | This has all just turned into a remarkable amount of paranoid | compliance idiocy. So, mandated vaccines but then the same | shit as before requiring tests, masks and so forth despite a | person having coverage with vaccines so supposedly wonderful | that they are now being mandated through draconian methods | and with zero liability for their makers. If the vaccines (as | evidence seems to show) reduce the risk of COVID harm to | something comparable to the seasonal flu, then why so much | nonsense? Or will be soon all be forced to vaccinate for | numerous other infectious illnesses that we somehow managed | to live with for decades without absurd problems. | | What we see here is in many ways a biohazard version of the | post 9/11 paranoia security theater that persists to this | day. | macinjosh wrote: | You are 100% correct. Our leaders have no incentive to | treat this crisis in a calm, reasonable way and that has | led to vastly over-reaching interventions in people's lives | no matter how well meaning the intentions are. | jjgreen wrote: | Take off your shoes and put on this mask, has a nice | symmetry don't you think? | tdeck wrote: | You seem to not have noticed that there's a new variant of | the SARS-Cov2 virus that's much more contagious than the | previous variant, and spreads easily among vaccinated | people. Sure, the vaccine makes you much less likely to | die, but that doesn't mean you can't a) spread the disease | to others and b) suffer long-term neurological symptoms. So | that's why we still have other measures to control the | spread like wearing masks and testing before being in | certain settings. | | At the same time, it's not clear that the border is a | particularly meaningful control at this point, since those | variants are endemic on both sides of that border. | exyi wrote: | The test is still cheaper than the car. So probably not a big | issue | BoorishBears wrote: | Not a big deal compared to actually being cut off with the | current pressure on basic necessities. | Mikeb85 wrote: | Lots of people commute daily for work, in large part | because Vancouver is no unaffordable. It's a massive | headache, and that's why it's such big news. | | Taking a PCR test every 2 days just to be able to get | to/from work is ridiculous. Especially since only one side | is requiring it. | [deleted] | walrus01 wrote: | You don't need a covid19 test now to drive into the USA. You | do need to be fully vaccinated and to declare you have no | symptoms. This is new with the border re-opening for non | essential travel just about a week ago. | | You do need a covid19 test (quick antigen test is OK) to fly | from Canada to the US. | | You do need a PCR covid19 test taken within the past 72 hours | to re-enter canada by land or air, per CBSA requirements. | Mikeb85 wrote: | Yes, I know. Only Canada is requiring it. Nothing you said | here refutes my statement. I'm talking about driving from | Vancouver to another part of Canada. Because of the content | of the article. To commute via the US, a test is required | (because of Canada's current policy). | ygjb wrote: | Clearly you don't know folks working in the industry; | Trade and Transportation drivers have been and are exempt | from testing requirements. My brother has been driving to | and from the area around Winnipeg through North and South | Dakota as a truck driver during the entire pandemic, and | was vaccinated early by the US. (also, non-anecdotal | source -> https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel- | restrictions/exempt... ) | Mikeb85 wrote: | And what does that have to do with anyone who doesn't fit | into that one category? | ygjb wrote: | The overall tone of the thread is about logistics in a | port city that is the main port of entry to Canada. | Individually, the testing requirements are very | disruptive, but it's one less issue that may have | impacted supply chains within the BC lower mainland, and | an avenue to ship goods out, albeit more expensively. | | This isn't (generally speaking) a thread about COVID | restrictions, but if you want to sound off about that | more, feel free, but it shouldn't be a shock that in a) a | global pandemic, and b) a series of natural disasters, | that no one really gives a fuck about how inconvenient | travel has become for non-essential activities. | Mikeb85 wrote: | Fair enough. My responses might be slightly shaped by the | fact I was going to drive to Vancouver next week to visit | a friend and am flying to Europe in 2 weeks. | | > that no one really gives a fuck about how inconvenient | travel has become for non-essential activities | | Plenty of people do. Hence why so many countries | (literally the whole EU) are trying to facilitate travel. | ygjb wrote: | I'm sorry, I didn't realize that the EU was impacted by a | massive critical infrastructure failure induced by a | natural disaster. | | Like I said, this isn't a discussion or debate about | COVID restrictions, and while it sucks that you might be | temporarily inconvenienced in relation to your travel | plans, as a person who lives and works in the lower | mainland and has several friends and family members who | are either homeless or temporarily stranded, temporary | travel inconveniences rank somewhere between "oh well", | and "could you please not, while we clean up?". | ygjb wrote: | Unless you are exempt, like truck drivers. | https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel- | restrictions/exempt... | mrfusion wrote: | TLDR: flooding | Dedime wrote: | I surprised you didn't link Kelowna's finest newspaper, Castanet: | https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/351544/Mudslides-close-all-... | | I love them because their reporting is terrible and the site | itself is straight out of the 90's. They used to run polls that | were easy to manipulate, according to a ex-coworker of mine. It's | like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Nonetheless, | everybody in Kelowna acts like Castanet is the one true source of | information... | gigglesupstairs wrote: | Holy heck it looks dope, straight out of 90s. I'm surprised it | works well with Safari's Reader though. | OJFord wrote: | It's running through Cloudflare & hcaptcha, the aesthetic may | be '90s, but it doesn't mean the code is necessarily. | cormacrelf wrote: | Reader and similar plugins have it easy on 90s websites. It's | the 2010s onwards you have to worry about. | sleepysysadmin wrote: | wow. their website is fantastic. | varenc wrote: | I actually love this site. So refreshing. Feels like a homepage | put together very manually by people that really care. | | Love the "Around The Web" section and how it genuinely just | wants you to see a video of a cat playing piano [0]. No | aggressive ad placement or fake product review schemes. Just an | awesome video of a cat they wanted to share. | | Edit: And it seems polling system for "How does this story make | you feel?" only relies on cookies to prevent duplicate votes... | So I sent them 100 votes for "Awesome" | | [0] https://www.castanet.net/edition/news- | story-351694-25-.htm#3... | _3u10 wrote: | Castanet, hits ya right in the feels. | kryz wrote: | Castanet's true genius is that it was founded by a guy who | owned a bunch of radio stations and thus still sells | advertising that way. $xxxx/mo for a rotating 250x250 | | How many people will see it? Mmm about this many _hands | outstretched as big as a salmon_ | | The thing prints money as local businesses funnel all their | advertising budgets to it. | | No expectation of performance, like buying a newspaper ad lol | int_19h wrote: | OTOH they seem to be hosting all their ads directly on their | server, so e.g. PiHole doesn't block them. | itronitron wrote: | +1 for the link on their front page to a 'Tuesday Meme Dump' | dleslie wrote: | Castanet is gloriously imperfect. I hope they never change and | never fade away. | | It's exactly what it looks like: a hodge-podged effort by some | local folks with little experience and ability among them, | besides an earnest desire to report local news with a local | perspective, that has stood the test of time (it launched in | 2000!). | mattmanser wrote: | So, an outsider's perspective: | | 1. It loads super quick | | 2. The list of articles is clear and easy to scan | | 3. There aren't a shit ton of adverts | | 4. There are no bloody popups, cookie notices, donate | banners, etc. | | 5. The entire page doesn't load, me start reading then | suddenly completely greyed out with an overlay because of | badly implemented 4 | | 6. No auto-playing videos that are impossible to find to stop | | If this is 90s web design that's "a train wreck in slow | motion" and "gloriously imperfect", can we all go back to the | 90s please? | r00fus wrote: | and no paywall! | | This site is great! | toss1 wrote: | Seconded. | | Not only that, I didn't even have to touch NoScript - it | all apparently loaded perfectly. Wow, it'd be nice if much | more of the internet was like this! | mr_sturd wrote: | To add to this, it appears to work perfectly without | lifting any of my NoScript restrictions. | dleslie wrote: | The key with 90s web design is the relative absence of | Javascript. There's virtually no asynchronous requests; and | Castanet works fine with NoScript, most modern sites do | not. | dylan604 wrote: | I understand where you're coming from, but I came from | 90s webdev. The gift of aysnc requests was the one true | credit I give MS for their contribution to moving the web | forward (even if it might have been self-serving). The | fact that we no longer had to do full screen refreshes to | update one part of the page was glorious. It helped allow | the deprecation of frames. | | However, just like all good things, people decided if a | little is good more would be better. This is why we can't | have nice things, but it doesn't mean that the thing | itself isn't nice. | nitrogen wrote: | This goes back to the distinction between web _pages | /documents_ (deliver immutable server-side content once, | up front) and web _apps_ (lots of back and forth with | mutable data on the server). A news website should never | be anything except _pages_ , even with interactive | content, but it seems almost nobody can resist the urge | to treat everything like an _app_. | djbusby wrote: | I like to think of my App as a collection of Pages. While | it does "stuff" we think of implementation Page first. | | Then clients say your app is fast and responsive but what | they really mean is that we've not built an obese | chimera. | dylan604 wrote: | Not every website is a news site, nor is every non- | newsite an app. Having a website that functions as a | store front and information page so that 90% of the site | is static, yet dynamically being able to add things to a | cart is an example. Is that an app? But not having to do | a full page refresh on a POST to add an item to a cart is | glorius. | | Just because the webiste in question of this thread is a | newsite doesn't mean we have to throw the baby out with | the bathwater because it fits this one category. | tailspin2019 wrote: | Is this a perspective on Castanet? | | Because there is literally at least one super distracting | animated GIF ad in view 100% of the time while I scroll | that page (which, on my iPhone, is not exactly easily | readable due to lack of responsiveness). | | On the OP article I see zero ads but I think that's | possibly my PiHole kicking in (which notable fails to block | any of the presumably locally hosted adds on Castanet). | | I agree with some of your other points but let's not go to | far :) | chubot wrote: | Yeah it's more usable than 95% of the websites I visit, | e.g. pretty much every news site, Reddit, etc. | soupbowl wrote: | I can confirm that the poll is still easy to manipulate. I | enjoyed and agree with all your comments about castanet. | cgh wrote: | It's not just Kelowna, it's the entire Okanagan valley. My | mother-in-law lives in Summerland and she swears by Castanet as | the one true news source. | nikanj wrote: | The majority of, well, everything in Canada comes from China (as | with all countries). And it all arrives via port of Vancouver. | Christmas shopping is going to be interesting this year, unless | they get the freight moving asap. | hammock wrote: | I misinterpreted the headline the mean that the city was | continuously surrounded by roads, e.g. a wild animal trying to | reach the city could not without crossing a road somewhere. | SkittyDog wrote: | That's literally true of every regular city block, so it woukd | seem a strange headline. | | I don't know what timezone you're in, but maybe you need a cup | of coffee? | cf100clunk wrote: | Should be: "Vancouver is now completely cut off by road from | the rest of Canada" | kazinator wrote: | I think if you put up a stop signs next to the obstructions and | wash outs, Vancouver drivers then just sail right through them | like they are nothing. | btilly wrote: | It looks like rail lines are also cut off. | | This is kind of a big deal for shipping. Approximately $200 | billion goods/year travel through Vancouver, including millions | of (metric) tonnes of grain bound for Asia, and imports of | Chinese goods bound for the rest of Canada. Most of that traffic | now needs to find another route until repairs are made. | Symbiote wrote: | Are all of them cut off? | | There seem to be four, one north, two along the river, and one | south. | | https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?style=standard&lat=49.346598... | deanCommie wrote: | Two are cut - the washout is on the eastern-most line heading | to Kamloops about halfway up from Chilliwack. That's the most | direct rail line to the rest of Canada. | | Going through the US and via Spokane is quite a detour. | | Also not all rail lines are created equal. The northern- | orientated line that heads to Prince George can't carry the | same capacity. | btilly wrote: | From https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bc-floods-rail- | impact-1.625... it looks like some lines are out and others | remain to be inspected once things clear up. So maybe all, | maybe not all, but enough to be a big problem. | | A dairy farmer in Abbotsford is quoted as having only 5 days | of feed. Consider the economic damage if farmers have to kill | livestock, and can't even get them to a meat packing facility | to recoup any part of their losses. | austincheney wrote: | It seems November is a hard month of rain in certain areas. When | I was in Kuwait in 2018 they had a record flood on November 4th | greater than anything in the modern history going back to the | late 18th century when they civilized the area. Then on the 14th | there was a flood that was 3x greater than the one on the 4th. | | I was also reading that this week southern Egypt is having an | extreme problem with flooding that killed 3 soldiers. | | There are a bunch of videos on YouTube about it: | https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kuwait+november... | meken wrote: | Anyone else reminded of The Dark Knight Rises? | ygjb wrote: | Less The Dark Knight because there are fewer bad guys with | squeaky voices running around, and more like this... | https://imgur.com/gallery/U5up5RT ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-11-16 23:00 UTC)