[HN Gopher] Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?
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Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?
Author : behnamoh
Score : 64 points
Date : 2021-11-19 21:00 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (switchandclick.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (switchandclick.com)
| trynumber9 wrote:
| I have two Topre-manufactured keyboards (Leopold 980c and
| Realforce 87U) but I prefer to use a very similar keyboard, the
| NIZ X87. It uses a similar electro-capacitive switch but it is
| wireless and has Cherry MX compatible stems. The key feel is
| close enough and I can put whatever key caps on I want. Price is
| still high but typically a bit lower than Topre.
| nixlim wrote:
| Been using ultimate hacking keyboard for about 2 years now. Can't
| switch to anything else - it is that good.
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| I have one but stopped using it because it caused me synovitis.
| memco wrote:
| > You've seen people test Topre boards such as the HHKB,
| Realforce, Leopold, and some Topre-clone boards too, and many
| rave about the way they sound and feel.
|
| No, I haven't heard of Topre or seen any reviews until now.
|
| > Topre boards, why are they so expensive? ... $250 ...
|
| Although I suspect many keyboard enthusiasts might usually hover
| in the $100-$200 range for their pieces, $250 for parts and labor
| isn't that expensive. The Kinesis Advantage is $350, the Ergodox
| Moonlander is $370, even Apple's magic keyboard for the iPad is
| $300 so a $250 isn't cheap, but certainly isn't astronomical
| compared to what's out there. A lot of cheaper keyboards can be
| had, but they usually come at the cost of poorer quality or
| require additional labor and customization.
| formerly_proven wrote:
| The notion that a capacitive switch is somehow expensive to
| manufacture because the PCB is allegedly "special" (doubt) seems
| odd to me. All other capacitive sensing stuff uses bog-standard
| PCBs with nothing special about them at all and it's not like the
| rubberdome is hard to manufacture either (considering that _a
| more complex_ kind of rubberdome mat is the centerpiece in cheap
| rubberdome membrane keyboards).
|
| And then of course the "Rigorous Japanese Quality Standards",
| because obviously QC is better if the factory is located in a
| country containing people of the Japanese ethnicity compared to
| other ethnicities.
|
| Topres are expensive because it's a luxury item and they get away
| with it.
| mattnewton wrote:
| > And then of course the "Rigorous Japanese Quality Standards",
| because obviously QC is better if the factory is located in a
| country containing people of the Japanese ethnicity compared to
| other ethnicities.
|
| I think the Japanese part is being brought up to talk about the
| cost, as Japan is a higher cost of living country and has
| higher labour costs as a result. Lots of mass produced
| "Japanese" goods aren't actually produced in factories with
| Japanese workers as a result, so the fact that the
| manufacturing is only done there I think is just highlighting a
| supply-chain reason for the higher cost (using labour in
| Japan), without making an argument that the quality comes from
| that supply chain decision.
| nix23 wrote:
| >Topres are expensive because it's a luxury item and they get
| away with it.
|
| Because it's a high quality tool, long time ago the US firm IBM
| made some high quality keyboards too...long time ago.
|
| BTW: I can buy 6 HHKB for 1 Iphone (what is the luxury item
| here?)
| gh02t wrote:
| IBM keyboards were also astronomically expensive, the Model M
| was around $250 in 1985 which is something like $600 in 2021
| dollars. The modern Unicomp incarnations made on the same
| tooling are not _as_ nice as the OG Model M 's, but they're a
| reasonable approximation and still only $100.
|
| I have no doubt the pricing on the HHKB and other Topre
| boards provides a very comfortable profit margin. Which is
| fine, if people are happy with paying for them then it
| doesn't hurt my feelings. There are other equal quality
| boards for significantly cheaper, though that's IMO of
| course.
| rozab wrote:
| Wow, I had no idea the Model M was so pricey. I always
| assumed it was a big standard accessory that became a cult
| classic
| csdvrx wrote:
| For newer version, the SK-8835 currently goes over $200
| used - actually there's one at $199 on ebay with missing
| keys :)
|
| It was my favorite until I got a new thinkpad, with
| island keys: even if both are membrane, they are just so
| much better than the mechanical alternatives!
| formerly_proven wrote:
| And the Model M is actually the result of a series of
| cost-reduction measures from prior IBM keyboards, and
| received numerous cost-cutting changes during its
| production cycle.
|
| Though I'd guess it was a standard accessory - you gonna
| order an IBM AT PC without a keyboard? Probably not. And
| that AT would have been around 5000 $ or so, so 250 $ for
| the keyboard isn't that outrageous. Computers were
| expensive.
| chaorace wrote:
| > the PCB is allegedly "special" (doubt)
|
| I've taken apart Topre style boards before. I can _absolutely_
| confirm that the internals work differently from a classic
| rubber dome board.
|
| I'm not about to argue that the different mechanism makes
| Topres somehow special or worth the price of admission, but
| there's nothing "alleged" about it. I _do_ love the sound they
| make, though.
| xattt wrote:
| Am I the only one out of the loop about this product, or does
| that site read like "native" advertising?
| ojkelly wrote:
| To me it reads as a reasonably comprehensive overview of
| Topres. It may or may not be an ad, but the question of the
| article is one I'd expect someone discovering mechanical keys
| to ask at some point.
|
| Topre's are different to the typical cherry style, and well
| regarded by those who have them. They also rarer than cherry-
| style keyboards, so there's more mystery about them.
|
| I'd wager most people will be out of the loop on them, they're
| a niche product of a niche hobby. I'm still yet to try them,
| but maybe one day.
| lvl100 wrote:
| This is not well researched and written. There are many cheap EC
| keyboards out there. The price premium is due to cult following
| that predates the recent trend in mechanical keyboards.
| EMM_386 wrote:
| It says that in article?
|
| > For many years, they held the patent on Topre switches.
| However, in the mid-2000s, that patent expired. Despite other
| companies now being able to make Topre-clones, the Topre name
| was exclusive for many years and gained quite a reputation for
| themselves.
| cameroncooper wrote:
| The world of mechanical keyboards is really expansive, and
| actually a lot of fun. I'm currently driving a RAMA M60 which has
| the same HHKB layout, but uses Cherry MX key switches. It's also
| solid metal and weighs like 10 lbs.
|
| https://rama.works/#/m60-a/
| disposedtrolley wrote:
| I have an original Topre Realforce and an HHKB. They're both
| reliable, no-nonsense keyboards.
| chaps wrote:
| Hah, I have the same two and I agree. Realforce for the office
| since it's quieter and HHKB for home and games. My only
| complaint about the HHKB is the arrow and page up/down keys are
| in really strange places that took forever to build into muscle
| memory.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| I have a couple of HHKBs and fully agree. They've seen a
| ridiculous amount of use in the past 5 years and show no signs
| of giving in any time soon. Expect that if any part of it
| fails, it'll be the USB mini-B connector.
| darkr wrote:
| I have an 11 year old and a 4 year old [HHKB]. Used/abused
| for 8+ hours/day, 5+ days/week. For the first 7 years of its
| life the first HHKB was transported to and from work every
| day, which can't have helped it's lifespan. Regardless they
| are still both going strong, though the keys on the older
| board are noticeably softer.
| fdgsdfogijq wrote:
| HHKB is amazing for vim programming.
| petepete wrote:
| I wish it was easier to buy keyboards with a correctly-
| positioned control key.
| fnord77 wrote:
| I know this is sacrilege, but my all time favorite keyboard key
| switch for programming is whatever they have inside the logitech
| K750 solar.
|
| I've tried them all. I even have a "tester" with a matrix of
| dozens of different key switches. Kailh Box White is my second
| fav
| CarVac wrote:
| As someone with a Topre Realforce and a reproduction Model F
| capacitive buckling spring, I say that layout matters much more
| and I use a fully custom ergonomic keyboard (Mitosis layout but
| not split) with Kailh Box Navy switches, which are good enough.
|
| I'm still faster on buckling spring or Topre though, despite
| daily driving the ergo. Their lighter force and deeper stroke
| (4mm versus 3.5 for the Kailhs) just are better for extremely
| fast typing.
| gennarro wrote:
| Longtime topre user. They ruined me on all other keyboards. The
| best there is.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| My HHKB Type S collects dust since the Boba U4 came out.
|
| It's a mechanical switch with a D shaped tactile bump.
|
| The end result is a bottom out that feels similar to a Topre,
| but a much crisper action up and down.
| dharmab wrote:
| I like typing on blues more, but I really enjoy gaming on my
| topre!
| nix23 wrote:
| Having two HHKB Pro 2 (one work one at home) since years and i
| just can say you are 100% right ;)
| Bayart wrote:
| I paid through the nose for my Leopold FC660C because the
| specific one I wanted had to come from the US. Never regretted it
| !
|
| I've added Hasu's board on it a few weeks ago and it's basically
| a perfect keyboard now.
| [deleted]
| whitepoplar wrote:
| I think it's because they're primarily sold to enterprises, so if
| you're buying one in a personal capacity you're paying enterprise
| rates.
| darrylb42 wrote:
| What kind of enterprise buy these? I have only experienced
| enterprises buying the default keyboards that come with
| machines. $5 Dell specials.
| dharmab wrote:
| I've expensed mech boards for various jobs.
| wyager wrote:
| For 90% of companies, increasing software engineer
| productivity by just a few dozen bps is worth thousands of
| dollars a year. On top of a $4k laptop, $2k screens, etc. a
| $400 keyboard is totally reasonable. If your company _won 't_
| let you get stuff like this they're probably being
| irrationally stingy.
| siva7 wrote:
| It will be tough explaining to finance why i am ordering 400USD
| keyboards for my team members. Maybe it is more common in
| smaller companies where the owner orders these special items.
| post_break wrote:
| Some people see washer and dryers as appliances, others it's a
| very big deal and hobby, just like keyboards. I say this typing
| with some holy pandas which is gibberish to some and others know
| exactly what that is.
| InternetPerson wrote:
| For me, one nice thing about working from home all the time now
| is that I don't have to listen to everyone's annoyingly loud
| mechanical keyboards. I kinda hope this fad dies before I have to
| work in an office again...
| trynumber9 wrote:
| Thankfully, Topre are not loud.
| lmilcin wrote:
| There are good mechanical switches that are silent. For example
| Cherry MX Silent Red. I also have a keyboard with Cherry MX
| Browns with o-rings to dampen them a little bit.
|
| There is no excuse, other than being totally obnoxious prick,
| for using a loud keyboard in an open office.
| bayindirh wrote:
| We have a bunch of old Sun Microsystems mechanical keyboards at
| the office, and they're not loud. I use a Cherry MX Brown
| equipped keyboard and it's not loud either.
|
| Does everyone use "Blue" switches over there?
|
| BTW, I don't believe mechanical keyboards are a fad. They're
| much better than the better rubber dome keyboards. Especially
| as they age.
| basedbertram wrote:
| Oh wow, do people really bring mechanical keyboards to the
| office? I thought that was generally considered a no-no.
| __m wrote:
| With those prices you will feel the difference, just like
| audiophiles hear the difference in a $1000 cable.
| DennisP wrote:
| I have a Topre and various cherry reds and browns. The Topre
| actually isn't the best for me and I don't use it much, so I
| don't think I have a bias towards it, but I can say that the
| difference in how it feels is not subtle.
| mmgutz wrote:
| Not the same. I honestly cannot hear differences between
| audiophile quality headphones or interconnects.
|
| The typing experience of Topres' is noticeable whether you come
| from domes or mechanical keyboards. They feel in-between. I
| have arthritis in my right pinky. A 35g topre keyboard is
| perfect. (I also tried 35g mechanical switches but it did not
| feel as smooth).
| DennisP wrote:
| Interesting, maybe I have a heavier Topre. Sore finger joints
| are why I went mech, which solved the issue once I learned to
| type without bottoming out. That ended up feeling pretty
| fast, too.
|
| With my Topre, I wasn't able to do that, and even though it
| feels pretty cushiony at the bottom it still left me with
| some soreness. But maybe it's just too heavy.
|
| What keyboard did you get?
| germinalphrase wrote:
| Can anyone recommend an entry level mechanical keyboard
| specifically for extended typing (as opposed to gaming)?
|
| Or, at least, specific features/qualities to seek out.
| wellthisisgreat wrote:
| Take a look at ergonomic keyboards.
|
| Having a split keyboard is the most important step IMO to
| healthy hands, right after getting the right desk height to
| keep the wrist at the normal angle.
|
| I recommend keeb.io keyboards (I own 3), Sinc (fuller size) or
| Quefrency. Don't let the aesthetic confuse you - they are much
| better quality than anything factory made.
|
| If you are looking for a more traditional keyboard - look at
| Kinesis offerings (they have several split mech boards, I own
| Freestyle, but retired it in favor of Keeb.io stuff)
|
| I hear people like Digma Raise as well, but i never used it.
|
| YMDK has a 65% split board on Drop i think.
|
| Seriously, go for the split one.
| ARandumGuy wrote:
| If you're unsure of the switches you want, I would recommend
| grabbing a switch tester[1]. They don't give the exact
| experience of typing, but they are very useful if you have no
| frame of reference for what the different switches actually
| feel like. I know buying one gave me the confidence to take the
| plunge into a full mechanical keyboard.
|
| [1] This is the one I got, but others certainly work:
| https://www.amazon.com/Cherry-Switch-Tester-keyboard-Sampler...
| rp1 wrote:
| The Filco Majestouch 2 is a great keyboard. This is an older
| model, and it existed before the mech keyboard craze took off.
| Mine was sitting in the closet collecting dust having long ago
| been replaced by "fancier" keyboards with esoteric switches and
| other random features. Using it for the first time after a long
| hiatus was an "aha" moment. The typing experience was so much
| nicer. Upon reflection, here is why:
|
| 1. Plastic case. Aluminum cases and metal back plates have
| become pretty popular, but they are sooo heavy. It's nice when
| the keyboard has some weight, but I think things have gone too
| far.
|
| 2. No LEDs. A lot of keyboards have LEDs. Backlighting the keys
| is one thing, but a lot of keyboards just do it for looks and
| it gets annoying after a while.
|
| 3. Cherry MX blues and browns are great switches. A lot of
| switches have come on the market over the last few years. I
| think their proliferation is driven by people wanting something
| new, but Cherry's blue and brown switches are still better than
| many other switches.
|
| 4. Timeless layout. There has been a drive to make keyboards
| smaller. I agree with this trend, up to a point. If the
| keyboard is missing keys you need, it's not a good choice for
| extended typing. Sure, you can remember the hotkeys for the
| missing characters, but it's still annoying. Also, there isn't
| really a standard 60% design, so all the manufacturers do it
| differently. A ten-keyless keyboard might be _slightly_ bigger
| than I would prefer, but it's got a layout that has withstood
| the test of time.
| rjsw wrote:
| I'm very happy with my Majestouch TKL.
| eertami wrote:
| Just to add a fifth point: Lifespan. I'm typing this on a
| Majestouch that I've owned for more than 10 years. I've had
| to replace the keycaps twice now due to wear, but the
| keyboard still works perfectly and feels as new.
|
| It's certainly the oldest piece of technology in my office.
| I've typed on newer fancier keyboards (and have a 60% for
| travel), but the Majestouch is still my favourite.
| Hikikomori wrote:
| Used a majestouch for almost 10 years. Bought an Varmilo
| VA109M after looking at keyboards for a month or so, couldn't
| find one with topre keys and Nordic layout. Not regretting it
| at all so far, feels amazing, similar in features to the
| majestouch, both have brown switches.
| bonestamp2 wrote:
| If you have other people around, you'll almost definitely want
| a "silent" switch. I've been using cherry blue (loud clicky)
| switches for a decade and then when my family joined me at home
| for covid they all complained. I changed to a silent switch and
| it's been great.
|
| I would recommend the "CODE" keyboard. They make almost every
| variation you would need (including "silent red" version):
|
| https://www.wasdkeyboards.com/products/mechanical-keyboards/...
|
| It's essentially a WASD brand keyboard with a nicer font on the
| keycaps and some different switch options.
|
| Play close attention the key layout you want... especially the
| enter key. You might be mad if you buy the layout you're not
| used to.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| Silent is very desirable. Is this defined by the switch type
| - or is it an additional (foam?) modification?
|
| Edit: I see that it is an o-ring modification.
| bonestamp2 wrote:
| A silent switch is the biggest factor in my experience.
|
| You can add o-rings to other switches to help reduce the
| sound of "bottoming out" (when the bottom of the keycap
| touches the mounting plate or PCB depending on how the
| keyboard is constructed). But, I don't like the o-ring
| method because it's not as quiet and it also impacts the
| key travel, which doesn't always feel nice. Also, the
| o-ring only helps with the bottoming out sound, and some
| switches have an actuation point click that also makes
| sound and the o-ring doesn't change that.
|
| Additional foam, gaskets, etc can help with noise but it's
| pretty minimal compared to the switch itself.
| DennisP wrote:
| Also the Cherry Blues purposely add a click. The Browns and
| Reds are quieter, even without the o-ring.
| rcpt wrote:
| Really like my pok3r. 5 years now and it was the forcing
| function I needed to commit to hjkl
| nemomarx wrote:
| Gaming keyboards often use linear switches, which are faster
| and easier to hit - this is good for gaming but can be messy
| for long typing in my experience. This is why blue and brown
| switches, which slow you down a little more, are kind of better
| for writing to me?
|
| Otherwise a lot is going to depend on personal preference, how
| often you use a numpad or other things, but that's one thing to
| look for in extended typing.
| seanc wrote:
| WASD is a pretty good place to start. They don't try to be
| fancy, just good.
|
| https://www.wasdkeyboards.com/
| TheRealDunkirk wrote:
| Just reiterating. They set out to make a no-compromise,
| feature-complete board, and succeeded. I have 2 that I use
| every day, one on a Mac, and the other on a PC. Their dip-
| switch configurator to determine which system they're plugged
| into is, IMO, a perfect solution. I would buy another in a
| heartbeat.
| ARandumGuy wrote:
| I'm really happy with my WASD, as my first proper mechanical
| keyboard. Very sturdy, looks nice, has a detachable cable,
| and you can order them with completely blank keycaps
| (something I've wanted for ages).
|
| The main downside is that setting up macros or alternate
| configurations is a pain. It involves a lot of very specific
| key presses, with only minimal feedback on the board itself.
| A proper software utility would be a wonderful feature.
| anonymousiam wrote:
| Not sure what you mean by "entry level", but I've been using
| Unicomp keyboards for about 10 years (ever since my last Dell
| PS/2 keyboard died).
|
| It's loud, but worth the hundred bucks.
|
| https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/NEW_M
| bengale wrote:
| I have a keychron k2 that's treating me well.
| mumblemumble wrote:
| Switch and Click is a fairly gamer-focused site, but they have
| some keyboard guides that might help you with deciding.
|
| Maybe start with:
|
| https://switchandclick.com/best-mechanical-keyboards-for-typ...
|
| That said, they tend to be biased toward more traditional key
| layouts. If you're looking for an "ergo" keyboard - split,
| columnar, whatever - there are fewer review sites that cater to
| that approach. Also fewer options, though. Especially if you're
| looking for a low price point.
| artificialLimbs wrote:
| Love my Keychron K3 optical with white switches. Very little
| pressure needed to send a keystroke. Took some practice to get
| used to. I did accidentally push keys sometimes, but that is
| gone after a bit of time.
|
| I wish they made a 100% layout of this model, because Blender.
| grae_QED wrote:
| IMO buckling spring feels better.
| 13415 wrote:
| For me it's the opposite, I much prefer Cherry Blue switches.
| silisili wrote:
| I had a buckling spring for years, and people kept telling me
| mechanical is just as good, or in many cases, better. Wrong and
| not even in the same league.
|
| I'm using blue switches today only because I can't find a
| backlit buckling spring. If such a thing comes to existence,
| I'll be first in line.
| [deleted]
| nicopappl wrote:
| I have the privilege of owning a Happy Hacking 2, it has topre
| keys. I used it for about a year. And I hated it! It's insanely
| noisy, to the point of distraction. It's so damn loud. But the
| dealbreaker for me is how heavy and deep the keys are. It's just
| too much energy and travel time for efficient typing IMO. After
| long sessions my fingertips felt sore from the blunt damage of
| pushing down the keys.
|
| But I'll recognize they have some merit. The chunky feeling has a
| sense of physically I never experienced in other keyboard. The 60
| keys and compact form factor is great for transport and leaves a
| lot of room for other things on your desk (this is actually super
| useful). The physical switches for changing the layout are very
| handy. And honestly the thing look like it could survive an
| impact from a deep space object. I would be surprised if it
| starts to show wear within the next 10 years.
|
| I still prefer my cheap Cherry Mx-Board 3 with brown cherry keys.
| The thing is clunky and ugly, but the more muted noise and lower
| pressure required to activate the keys is what I'm comfortable
| with.
|
| I'm so sorry for my former colleagues that had to go through my
| topre period and deal with the noise I even personally was very
| annoyed with.
|
| Edit:spelling
| sasaf5 wrote:
| Yes, I also settled with Mx browns after a long time trying to
| like Mx blues. It seems to be a common course of action among
| my coworkers. Also my blues started failing after 5 years, the
| browns seem to not be affected.
| captn3m0 wrote:
| I switch between Cherry Browns and Topre (Leopold 660) and my
| Topres are much quieter. I prefer them for office calls, as a
| result
| uvdn7 wrote:
| I have an HHKB for many years. It's still my favorite keyboard.
| It's very personally and subjective. Most of the reasons for
| why I like it can be explained as I am used to it though - eg
| it's layout.
| comboy wrote:
| My HHKB Hybrid Type-S is definitely less noisy than MX-Brown
| (at least in WASD keyboards edition).
|
| It may be more silent than my typing on macbook air, but it's
| hard to compare because it produces lower frequencies,
| definitely nicer sound than macbook keyboard to me and never
| even thought about it as noisy.
| csdvrx wrote:
| I agree so much!! I've tried my best to like mechanical
| keyboards... but no, I hate them.
|
| The noise is distracting, they require too much strength on
| every key, and they are big and expansive!
|
| I thought I might have the wrong keytypes, so I even purchased
| key testers: the red keys are less noisy, but that doesn't
| solve the other problems. So I just can't find a reason to like
| them.
|
| My favorite keyboard is the Thinkpad keyword (TrackPoint
| Keyboard II Bluetooth 4Y40X49493): the island version (current)
| is more comfortable than the previous version where the keys
| were touching (SK-8835 family if you want a numpad) as it
| leaves some room for nails.
|
| Mechanical keyboards seem preferred by gamers, but in my
| opinion, they make little sense in an office setting.
|
| However, my new favorite mouse is the Logitech G600 that's
| popular for MMOs: after purchasing a few and testing them all,
| it's the one that fits the best in my hand, even if it's still
| too large (why can't they make smaller mice??)
|
| What I like the most is how it has side keys that can be mapped
| in the firmware to physical keys (persistent setting) and to
| elaborate actions in AutoHotKey!
|
| Now give me the same thing 30% smaller, wireless with
| bluetooth, with a left hand option, and I'd happily pay $200
| for it!
| dlevine wrote:
| There are some knock-off Topres that are less expensive. For
| example, Royal Kludge had some boards that showed up on Drop a
| while back. I haven't used them, though, and they don't seem to
| have really caught on.
|
| I had a CM Novatouch for a while, which was Topre-based. It
| wasn't my cup of tea (I'm partial to dampened ALPs switches from
| old Apple Extended Keyboards), and I eventually sold it, but it
| was a solid keyboard.
| boomskats wrote:
| I really like the Niz Plum capacitive switches and their boards
| - much more than just a knockoff.
|
| Personally I've been on and off Topres since my first HHKB,
| about 10 years ago. Gazzew U4Ts / Nixdorks have however changed
| my mind, and my life.
| setpatchaddress wrote:
| I had a Noppoo keyboard, which ISTR is the same manufacturer as
| RK, and I found the switches stopped working after a while.
| Shadonototra wrote:
| overpriced niche product that doesn't last long..
|
| if one wants to look at mechanical keyboards, there are a wide
| range of better alternatives, look around they aren't that hard
| to find
|
| don't believe price = quality when it comes to keyboard, it is
| far from being the truth, we got the perfect example here...
| marcelnita wrote:
| I disagree. There are numerous people, myself included, on
| /r/mechanicalkeyboards that have way better experiences with
| Realforce/HHKB keyboards and their quality. I use daily a RF 87
| for the past 5 years and I've had no issues with it.
|
| I only regret not getting a Norbauer case for it, despite its
| price.
| bllguo wrote:
| Norbauer still does releases afaik. In fact it looks like
| polycarb Norbaforces are still available. I'm pretty sure I
| saw a run of the metal housings earlier in the year, too.
| vurudlxtyt wrote:
| Not sure about the "doesn't last long" part. Certainly doesn't
| fit my experience of 5+ years on an FC660C, or others'
| anecdotal evidence.
| wyager wrote:
| I've tried (and designed and built) tons of mechanical keyboards,
| including various ergo configurations. None of them get any use
| except my two HHKBs. The new HHKB Pro S is easily worth the $350
| or whatever. One cool feature - you can be simultaneously paired
| to 4 devices over Bluetooth and switch between those four and USB
| from the keyboard. It's like having a built-in KVM.
| ouid wrote:
| This kinda seems like an advertisement masquerading as a review.
| sgarman wrote:
| Maybe but: I was so into mechanical keyboards, researched all
| the keycaps and switches and different layouts, configurations
| etc. It can be a huge hobby. Then I bought a Realforce Topre
| and haven't looked at a single mechanical keyboard thing since.
| It's just a seriously good keyboard.
| wellthisisgreat wrote:
| If you are looking for quiet tactile mechanical switches, the
| best current option is getting Outemu U4 switches (current best
| silent tactile switches) and replacing the springs in them with
| 55gram TX springs. It's about 2 hours long project for a full-
| size keyboard but is the best you can do now if you want silent
| switches that have distinct tactile feedback and are yet easy on
| the joints.
|
| After years of climbing and grappling I am very wary of keyboards
| that trigger some kind of sensation in my joints. Heavy switches
| for 6-8 hour typing sessions seem like a recipe for some life--
| altering RSI
| dmbaggett wrote:
| I've been really impressed with Wooting keyboards for gaming
| after trying many alternatives. (My daily driver for coding is a
| Kinesis Advantage2 due to RSI, but they suck for games.)
|
| Has anyone tried both Wooting and Topre? Or for that matter,
| Wooting and anything they liked as much or better?
| TrainedMonkey wrote:
| Negative data point, Wooting Two HE keyboard right now is best
| one I've used. Comparing it to a das keyboard mx brown, couple
| of mechanical gaming, and a smattering of modern apple
| keyboards.
|
| Also a callout to Wooting wrist pads, they are sturdy, easy to
| clean, and feel amazing. The only bad part is availability in
| different sizes/colors, I've looked for similar products, but
| no dice.
| wellthisisgreat wrote:
| How does the Wooting sound? Is it loud or silent X
|
| Is it lighter or heavier than MX Brown?
| paulgerhardt wrote:
| These are my two daily drivers.
|
| For office work I strongly prefer the Topre (programming, long
| form writing, etc).
|
| For fun the Wooting is much more enjoyable.
| baybal2 wrote:
| What I don't like HHKB is exactly the inexact trigger point.
|
| These capacitive switches were originally designed for the need
| of extreme reliability, like for buttons in power station control
| panels, industrial equipment, etc.
|
| Switches themselves are cheap, but chips for the capacitive
| readout for each button isn't, or at least weren't 20 years ago.
|
| I want to make mechanical switches with equal reliability, and no
| bounce.
| TheRealDunkirk wrote:
| After about my 6th mech, I finally ordered one from Amazon to see
| what all the fuss was about. I put it back in the box after 2
| minutes, and returned it. What can I say? I like blues. It just
| comes down to what you prefer.
| mumblemumble wrote:
| Seems like that's not nearly enough time to really give a whole
| different kind of keyswitch? For me, at least, I need at least
| a few days with a new keyboard before my muscle memory is used
| to it; up until that point it's guaranteed to feel weird and
| uncomfortable no matter what.
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