[HN Gopher] PHP 8.1.0 Release Announcement
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PHP 8.1.0 Release Announcement
Author : AegirLeet
Score : 181 points
Date : 2021-11-25 18:39 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.php.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.php.net)
| rbanffy wrote:
| Genuinely curious: who here thinks PHP is a good choice for a new
| project and also has experience with other languages such as
| Scala, Kotlin, Python, or JavaScript and their respective web
| frameworks?
| tarokun-io wrote:
| I haven't written PHP in years but I get the feeling from this
| release that they are taking inspiration from TypeScript and
| JavaScript.
| wvenable wrote:
| They take inspiration from everything! I think that's one of
| the most interesting aspects of PHP design since version 5.0 is
| that they sort of unpretentiously take the good concept and
| syntax ideas from any language that has them.
| dubcanada wrote:
| That's a funny thing to say, considering those took inspiration
| from other languages.
| agumonkey wrote:
| _they all lifted stuff from ml /scheme in the 80s_
| jonwinstanley wrote:
| Definitely some JS influence plus a little Swift and Java. PHP
| seems to be evolving faster than it has in years
| pirate787 wrote:
| It's actually becoming a problem keeping pace with PHP major
| updates
| mschuster91 wrote:
| PHP isn't Linux with its strict "never break userspace"
| dogma - but for real, a PHP version upgrade should not be
| that bad to follow.
| nicoburns wrote:
| I think 8.0 had a bunch of relatively major/annoying
| breaking changes, but that's the first time since the 5.x
| era.
| blowski wrote:
| They did give deprecation warnings in various version 7
| releases, so they didn't come out of nowhere. (Not that
| you said they did, but for the purpose of other readers.)
| wwweston wrote:
| Probably FB's Hack and similar efforts were influences first,
| since they predate the rise of TS.
|
| On the other hand, though, PHP's always tended to be a
| borrowing language that accumulates features from elsewhere, so
| there probably is some TS influence.
| firefoxd wrote:
| I've been using PHP since 5.x. Often had to work on older 4.x web
| apps. I find it interesting when I read people saying "PHP has
| come a long way. It's a proper language now, etc."
|
| If you work long enough with a language and figure out most its
| quirks, it's a breeze. It's nice that they are adding all these
| new features, but they are hardly what makes it or break it for
| me.
|
| Here is the one features that is taken for granted in "modern
| stacks":
|
| Edit file -> Alt+tab ctrl+R. Oops, Alt+tab fix -> Alt+tab ctrl+R.
|
| When debugging I can do that 50 times a minute. With my react
| app, I can do it maybe 5 times a minute. With my golang app I'm
| lucky if I can do it twice a minute.
| butz wrote:
| You can use a live reload tool, e.g. BrowserSync, to
| automatically refresh webpage after source file change. Put
| your browser on half of screen if you have big enough monitor,
| or even better - use dual screen setup. And if your IDE
| supports automatic saving, you are down to single step: "Edit
| file".
| CodeWriter23 wrote:
| Same folks say Perl is unreadable because the syntax for
| certain aspects of the language is unfamiliar to them.
| throwamon wrote:
| There might be more to it than that...
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19576425
| fourseventy wrote:
| What monsterous golang app are you running that takes 30
| seconds to compile?
| bch wrote:
| More interested in what meaningful fixes can be done in some
| fraction of the 1.2s RTT of this rapid-fire style PHP
| development.
| goalieca wrote:
| Once you throw that stuff in K8s, you're back to 10seconds.
| rbanffy wrote:
| Do you debug your apps in a K8s environment? Why?
| bovermyer wrote:
| If I throw my dinner in K8s, will I get back filet mignon?
| djbusby wrote:
| Nope, you get Vienna sausage
| the_gipsy wrote:
| With a proper type system you don't need to run your code 50
| times a minute.
| Implicated wrote:
| As someone who isn't perfect, it's nice to be able to quickly
| iterate on ideas.
| rbanffy wrote:
| You still can. It'll just stop you before you get to a
| running web application that may be doing something wrong
| with the data that goes through it.
| smt88 wrote:
| Iterating on ideas is much quicker when the compiler tells
| you when you made a mistake or failed to change your code
| after changing your mind.
| djbusby wrote:
| Hello me! Nice to meet me!
| chubot wrote:
| Code that passes type checks can also fail to solve the
| user's problem, make 10,000 database calls, or render a page
| that is completely unreadable.
|
| The human in the loop is a good thing. All things being
| equal, the type system is also a good thing, but what usually
| happens is that you end up checking your page once a minute
| or once every 10 minutes, not 50 times in a minute. That
| difference can make or break a project.
| Lhiw wrote:
| With a proper type system you can't.
|
| What a useless thing to say. The ap is talking about a tight
| feedback loop and you decide to make a condescending comment
| about type systems. Go back to twitter.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| When working on PHP only I didn't care at all for the quirks or
| missing features. When going back and forth with other
| languages, PHP getting better becomes a huge quality of life
| improvement, the mental load we need to keep gets much lower.
|
| PHP has always been a powerful language where the burden of
| making it work properly 250% relies on the dev. Stuff like
| enums should significantly reduce that ratio, it's a big deal I
| think.
|
| On the debugging part, I found something like ruby's pry to be
| the easiest and fastest option. I wish PHP had something
| similar.
| wutwutwutwut wrote:
| Is oopsing 50 times per minute a good thing?
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| If you're doing iterative development, why not.
| firefoxd wrote:
| No, not just oops. I get to see the state of the entire
| application with different values.
| helloguillecl wrote:
| Of course not, it is just a way to show how fast things can
| go with PHP.
| pdenton wrote:
| Question: does class_exists still return TRUE when given the QCN
| to an enum?
|
| Because it's not possible to instantiate an enum, if one appears
| in the constructor of a class it'll break auto-wiring. I've
| written my own IoC containers and one fundamental assumption in
| them is that when class_exists returns true, it is what it says
| on the tin. Using a specialized factory would still be possible.
| I wonder if other containers would break on seeing enums as well,
| but I hope they fixed this because it's not mentioned in the
| breaking changes. The documentation for class_exists doesn't
| mention enum.
| jdjdjrj wrote:
| Say what you want about PHP, but here we are decades later. I'm
| still using it, it still works, and it's still getting updated
| and improved.
| 0x4d464d48 wrote:
| Say what you will about JavaScript...
|
| I use it constantly not because it's well-designed but because
| TINA (there is no alternative).
|
| [] == ![]; // true. Go ahead. Run it in your console...
| EGreg wrote:
| What is this? class User { /**
| * @Assert\All({ * @Assert\NotNull, *
| @Assert\Length(min=5) * }) */ public
| string $name = ''; } PHP 8.1 class User
| { #[\Assert\All( new \Assert\NotNull,
| new \Assert\Length(min: 6)) ] public string $name
| = ''; }
| hu3 wrote:
| These are attributes which add metadata that can be
| programatically acessed by applications and tooling.
|
| That piece of code is about data validation.
|
| See more at
| https://www.php.net/manual/en/language.attributes.overview.p...
| [deleted]
| exitheone wrote:
| An annotation syntax no outside of doc strings. Something PHP
| desperately needed.
|
| Very similar to Java annotations.
| codazoda wrote:
| Just going to link to this from earlier today.
|
| https://front-line-php.com/cheat-sheet
|
| It's covered under "Attributes".
| bilal4hmed wrote:
| I haven't written PHP since the 5.0 release but its amazing to
| see how it has grown over the years. Seems to have picked up a
| few nice things and is still enjoying usage even today.
| marcodiego wrote:
| Still holding the web. Happy to see it is continually evolving.
| DaiPlusPlus wrote:
| What's your estimate for PHP's long-term viability?
|
| I'm asking, because it was the hobbyists and kids who got
| started in PHP mucking around in their everyday white-label
| cPanel/Plesk-based web-hosting accounts in the very early 2000s
| that really gave PHP the mindshare of enthusiastic users and
| thus its staying power. But it's 2021 now: _all_ the kids are
| getting started with NodeJS for server-side web-applications,
| not PHP.
|
| With the decline of traditional web-hosting as something that
| people have and might experiment with (replaced at the low-end
| by Wix and Squarespace, and major "Cloud" providers at the
| high-end), what opportunities does PHP have to attract new
| eyeballs?
|
| Years ago self-hosted WordPress and phpBB installs would have
| been been a good gateway, but both of those are going out of
| fashion owing to the substantial maintenance burden that comes
| with self-hosting. _Everyone_ I know that used to self-host
| WordPress (former clients, friends, local small businesses,
| etc) have all given-up and switched to WordPress.com 's
| managed-hosting model or gone with the aforementioned Wix and
| Squarespace.
|
| Ultimately PHP as-we-know-it will last as long as Zend (UPDATE:
| it's now owned by Perforce?!? wow...) can secure sales/support
| funding, which is predicated on their continued penetration of
| major enterprise customers - or indirectly through the
| continued popularity of WordPress and the like, even if it's
| hardly ever self-hosted anymore.
|
| Personally, my money's on maybe 5-10 years' continued
| credibility, and then another 15 years of slow decline into
| irrelevance.
| mmaunder wrote:
| 80% of the web is powered by PHP and 40% of that is WordPress
| which has continued to grow. 64% of CMS websites are
| WordPress. There's what gets upvotes, and then there's what
| is widely used, supported, easy to hire devs for and
| practical as hell. PHP, unlike Perl which I used to
| contribute to, is here to stay.
| tored wrote:
| PHP bigwigs just announced the PHP Foundation to secure PHP's
| future.
|
| Announcement
|
| https://blog.jetbrains.com/phpstorm/2021/11/the-php-
| foundati...
|
| PHP Foundation
|
| https://opencollective.com/phpfoundation
|
| Accepts donations to help the development of PHP.
| DaiPlusPlus wrote:
| I don't think that's a good sign.
|
| The community's complaints with PHP are far more concerned
| with technical matters relating to the language, runtime
| and libraries than how Zend etc have handled the usual
| issues in politics and project governorship. I don't think
| PHP has ever had a brouhaha anything like what happens in
| Java's JCP or the Oracle sale. Other platforms (like .NET)
| have their own foundations but they aren't taking seriously
| by the community because we all know the commercial
| companies that back the tooling are the ones that really
| matter.
|
| ...so what's the _real reason_ for PHP suddenly switching
| to a Foundation-supported model? And why couldn 't they
| entrust PHP with an existing and well-regarded foundation
| like Apache or FSF?
| marcodiego wrote:
| There's also Moodle which got extremely more important
| because of the pandemic. Nothing that ever becomes as popular
| as PHP and continues evolving for 2+ decades disappears
| quickly. I think 10+15 years... I don't know... I think it
| will last longer. COBOL and FORTRAN are still alive, there
| was more heavy money into both but there are more minds in
| PHP.
| DaiPlusPlus wrote:
| Ah, yes - Moodle.
|
| My 6th Form experimented with Moodle when I was a student
| there - that was a loooooong time ago (2004? 2006?). I
| remember the staff weren't happy that Moodle allowed
| students to set their own avatars because too many kids
| figured out you could use animated GIFs as avatars,
| probably copied from eBaums or deviantArt; while others
| uploaded shock-images or just controversial content because
| I guess that's just funny to a bunch of 16yos.
|
| The school ditched the experiment after a few months
| because Moodle simply wasn't delivering any real value: the
| teachers didn't want to have to type-up their handwritten
| lesson-plans and manually scan-in their existing non-
| digitized content, and those that did already have
| digitized content (those smug 6th Form computer science
| teachers, naturally) didn't want to have to "refactor" (I
| guess that's the right word?) their content to fit into
| Moodle's way-of-doing-things.
|
| I think as the experiment came to an end we were only using
| it for ungraded quiz-taking - we weren't even using it for
| submitting homework (teachers still preferred e-mail for
| that: the 6th Form already had its own on-prem MS Exchange
| set-up that everyone used - and we could e-mail staff from
| our personal e-mail accounts too, which was nice - I know a
| lot of schools kept closed, on-prem-only, not-internet-
| facing e-mail systems to avoid spam - this was back when
| spam filters were awful and spam itself regularly included
| actual porn and other very-inappropriate-for-schools
| content, so I can understand why those other schools did).
|
| ----------
|
| I haven't laid-eyes Moodle ever since then - every few
| years someone will mention it but I've never had a chance
| to speak to anyone who actually uses it to find out if it's
| actually any better than it was 15 years ago - and how it's
| changed at all. Can you fill me in?
|
| And still far better than Blackboard?
| Gigachad wrote:
| Personally I am delighted that the low end has been replaced
| by fully managed platforms. The average small business does
| not have the ability to run a website. Actually building the
| site and getting it online is the cheapest and easiest part
| but its the only part these places budget for. Then the
| inevitable problems come when the site is 2 years old,
| falling apart, getting hacked, etc. Allowing these low end
| customers to just have something that is set and forget truly
| is an improvement.
| simonw wrote:
| Fibers "allow blocking and non-blocking implementations to share
| the same API"
|
| That's an interesting contrast to Python where the need to use
| "value = await fn()" v.s. "value = fn()" depending on whether or
| not that function is awaitable causes all kinds of API design
| complexity, all the way up to the existence of tools like
| https://github.com/python-trio/unasync which can code-generate
| the non-async version of a library from the async version.
| rbanffy wrote:
| > allow blocking and non-blocking implementations to share the
| same API
|
| Sounds like an excellent way to create weird concurrency
| heisenbugs.
| jeltz wrote:
| Ruby has the same design where async is implemented on top of
| fibers.
| Ralfp wrote:
| But if you are writing framework or library that has to deal
| with both, its: result = fn() if
| isawaitable(result): result = await result
|
| And turns out isawaitable is not that fast so things like
| GraphQL libraries that run above logic thousands of times per
| request get noticeably slow.
| simonw wrote:
| I wrote a bit about that pattern last year:
| https://simonwillison.net/2020/Sep/2/await-me-maybe/
|
| I didn't realize it had a significant performance overhead
| though, I should look into that.
| pachico wrote:
| Everyone laughing at PHP hasn't tried it for years, I'd bet. It
| started clumsy, true, but it became a solid and quite elegant way
| of doing things.
|
| And by things I don't mean just web development.
|
| The current limitations I see in PHP is that there is not an
| official multi-core coroutines solution.
| [deleted]
| IshKebab wrote:
| I've used PHP recently to work on Phabricator, and the whole
| "yes it sucked but now it's good" narrative did not match my
| experience at all. Sure it might have added modern features but
| the core is still rotten.
|
| The alternative would have to be TCL levels of bad to make me
| choose PHP.
| n42 wrote:
| Phabricator is not written in "modern PHP", so your
| experience is not surprising
| wutwutwutwut wrote:
| Can you link something written in modern PHP?
| allan_s wrote:
| most of projects based on Laravel/Symfony that are < 5
| years old
| n42 wrote:
| like the sibling comment said, web apps are written in
| Symfony/Laravel, but the framework abstractions with web
| apps might not paint you a clear picture of how the core
| language has improved. it will give you a good idea what
| it's like to build applications.
|
| my favorite part of modern PHP is how nice writing
| libraries is. so it might not be what you're looking for,
| but I remember being pretty impressed with the code
| quality of the Amp PHP library recently. the v3 branch is
| 8.x only and (I believe) is targeting the Fibers feature
| just introduced in 8.1
|
| https://github.com/amphp/amp/tree/v3
|
| one of the best things to come with PHP are the community
| standardizations around things like interfaces for HTTP
| requests, logging, DI containers, and even code style
| standards. it makes for a very consistent experience when
| developing (at least when you're in the "new world"),
| since most newer libraries are all written in a similar
| style using common interfaces
| AegirLeet wrote:
| Phabricator, much like WordPress, kind of lives in its own
| world and hasn't adopted most aspects of modern PHP. Even as
| someone who works with PHP and enjoys it, I wouldn't want to
| use Phabricator.
| jdjdjrj wrote:
| Wordpress has taken great strides to comply with the latest
| PHP standards so I'd say that's not quite fair to include
| it here.
| johnny22 wrote:
| i just helped my father with a wordpress site, and it
| sure doesn't use modern php. It runs on modern php, but
| it does not seem to actually USE it.
| JimmyRuska wrote:
| PHP at its core is the best part. A whole bunch of optimized
| and well tested C functions that are typical of backend
| functionality.
|
| If you can do as little as possible in PHP and rely on the
| low level functions to stitch together what you need,
| deserialize and render data in the front end, use front-end
| templating, then PHP is insanely fast, practical language.
|
| The issues with PHP are usually when people build out giant
| frameworks in PHP, rather than using PHP as a higher level
| glue language for the built-in fast C functions.
| blowski wrote:
| I've worked on _many_ PHP projects. Unless it's a small
| single-purpose script, if you tell me it doesn't use one of
| the standard frameworks, I'm going to assume it's an
| absolute unholy mess of spaghetti.
|
| Laravel and Symfony are both extremely good, and the only
| reason people don't use them tends to be out of misplaced
| arrogance. Unsurprisingly, they end up building their own
| awful framework, and at some point the project either dies
| or someone says "Erm, we should put this in Laravel".
|
| There are some people who've built great projects without
| these frameworks, and there are many projects in these
| frameworks that are terrible. But in terms of
| probabilities, you've got a much better chance of a project
| being well-built if it's in Symfony or Laravel.
| holoduke wrote:
| I have seen plenty of PHP projects without any frameworks
| used. Big ones as well. One of these projects is
| automation for a complete manufacturer factory. Robot
| controllers, Serial hardware drivers written in PHP,
| Realtime application with PHP instances running for
| multiple years. No frameworks used at all. There is more
| than only webapps.
| blowski wrote:
| I'm sceptical that's a large proportion of PHP projects,
| and thus comes under my caveat of _some_ projects.
| Koffiepoeder wrote:
| To be honest, I quite like modern PHP. On the other hand,
| I tend to stay away from it, exactly because of the big
| prevalence of spaghetti code projects.
|
| There just is so much legacy in the PHP world that
| separating the wheat from the chaff in itself becomes
| tedious. And don't understand me wrong: legacy in itself
| is not a problem. It's the combination of PHP being easy
| to pick up, lots of outsourcing, people writing
| procedural code without any notion of code readability,
| lack of tests, use of global state, etc that usually just
| make me cry and move on. For me the percentage of
| worthwhile PHP projects to chase is too low in comparison
| with many other technologies.
|
| Even though PHP was what got me into programming in the
| first place, I nowadays thus chose to pick other battles.
| But every once in a while I still nostalgiously float
| back in time to my childhood days, enjoying every line of
| the almighty 4MB imagemagick monstrosity scripts I
| conspired. And then I'm happy that you nor I have to
| solve these enigma puzzles.
| blowski wrote:
| I started with Ruby, and I imagine my code there was just
| as bad. But I totally agree about the prevalence of bad
| PHP projects. My theory is that it's the dominant
| language and so there are just more projects, and (like
| the opposite of survivorship bias) shit codebases are
| often looking for good developers to save them which is
| why you see so many of them.
| jeltz wrote:
| I used PHP about two years ago and I was not impressed at all
| with the improvements. Yes, some of the issues had been fixed,
| but many of them remained. I cannot see any reason for using it
| over JS, Python or Ruby.
| krisrm wrote:
| Elegant is not the word I'd use to describe PHP. Solid,
| perhaps. Undoubtedly useful. But if there is elegant PHP, I
| haven't seen it.
| rhengles wrote:
| This depends a little on the taste of each person, but
| personally the most elegant way of doing PHP apps I ever
| found is with Siler: https://siler.leocavalcante.dev/v/main/
| and Create Siler App:
| https://github.com/leocavalcante/create-siler-app
| KerryJones wrote:
| Have you looked at any Laravel code? As someone who has
| worked from small startups to FAANG and inbetween, Javascript
| to PHP to Python to Go, I haven't found anything more
| elegant.
| Lhiw wrote:
| Elegant PHP is an API with each endpoint ending in .php and
| query Params that look like ?hello=world.
|
| I don't know why pretty urls or magical regex routing matter
| so much to people but to me it's a huge waste of time when
| PHP and your webserver already do all that you need.
|
| The result is an API with extremely obvious and easy to work
| with code, every change to endpoint code is unable to blow up
| the whole site, library code is still a risk but things are
| far more isolated.
| 0x4d464d48 wrote:
| "Everyone laughing at PHP hasn't tried it for years, I'd bet."
|
| God I wish that was true...
|
| It's not that the language is necessarrily bad. It's the sludge
| of legacy code I've had to deal with and teams treating it as
| the hammer for every problem that they think they must treat as
| a nail.
|
| Efficency be damned.
| PostThisTooFast wrote:
| I wasn't laughing at it until I tried to follow this link and
| the server was down.
| Gigachad wrote:
| One comment I heard at a programming meetup recently was "I
| hate how frameworks like laravel have brought PHP back in to
| popularity when we had the chance to finally kill it off".
|
| I do wonder if there really was value in salvaging PHP when we
| have a wealth of other languages and frameworks that do a
| perfectly fine job without any of the legacy mistakes sitting
| around.
| maxpert wrote:
| Fibers!!! Who wants to bet we are a few releases away from
| async/await syntax now. Giving credit where it's due Microsoft
| with C# pioneered the syntax and every classic (including a few
| modern) language has adopted the syntax.
|
| I believe we are a few steps away from a fully builtin production
| ready server and db connection support.
| s-xyz wrote:
| Who is still using PHP anno 2021?
| duiker101 wrote:
| Considering just WordPress powers something like 40% of the
| whole www, I'd say quite a few people!
| jeltz wrote:
| But how much of that is just fake SEO websites? Virtually all
| the fake sites use Wordpress.
| ArtDev wrote:
| Considering how popular Drupal is with large government
| applications, PHP is going to be around a long time.
|
| PHP has become better and better over the years!
| kgeist wrote:
| If you ignore things like Wordpress, my guess is that today
| it's often used by organizations whose flagship product was
| originally written more than a decade ago, back when PHP was
| the go-to language for web development (see: Facebook,
| Wikipedia, Tumblr etc.) and now that there's an ecosystem
| around this flagship product, new projects/services may as well
| be started in PHP, because that's what everyone is
| comfortable/familiar with. Otherwise, it looks like PHP isn't a
| very popular choice nowadays for new projects, especially if
| it's a new company.
|
| Take our company for example, our flagship web product was
| developed more than a decade ago, and, well, today we still use
| PHP, because rewriting everything in a different language is a
| gargantuan task. It's not only about the language itself, but
| also about all the tooling/best practices etc. around it, which
| you have to replace, and it's costly. We do gradually modernize
| our code to remove all the PHP5-era warts, and it's much easier
| to accomplish than switch to a different language entirely.
| Modern PHP7+ with Symfony is very pleasant to work with, and in
| my opinion, from the productivity standpoint, there's really no
| reason to switch to anything else. Also, PHP7+ seems to be
| faster than Python/Ruby in raw interpreter speed. However, we
| realized that we can't scale further if we stay with our
| PHP/Symfony monolith for everything because of Symfony's
| considerable startup overhead, so we now try to write new
| services in Go (request processing is usually 10 times faster
| for our loads), and seems like the combo PHP+Go is very popular
| among PHP developers in general.
|
| So, I'd say, PHP isn't "dead" and is still widely used in 2021,
| however, in my opinion, its usage is indeed dwindling, because
| there seems to be a trend even in our own PHP community to
| gradually supplement/replace/augment parts of our projects with
| services written in Go, and PHP is more and more frequently
| equaled to "legacy"/"monolith".
| allan_s wrote:
| Rosaly.com (shameless plug) , the team of developer is 32 years
| old average, though we all come from different background and
| all used python/go/java/rust in some of our previous jobs or on
| our own opensource projects, we just want to get shit done.
| * it has its quirks but we know them and each newer version fix
| more of them. * its damn fast (more than python or ruby)
| * its type system is better than python (trait/interface ,
| union type <3 , and now intersection type ! ) *
| symfony/laravel have evolved over the last 10 years, most of
| the things you knew 10 years ago are still true now
|
| and as a result it tends to attract people with the same
| mentality, my experience with recruiting php developer is that
| you have a much clearer clivage of "wordpress website
| maintainer" and "people who want to get shit done"
|
| you will not find for example "genius developer, that write
| code faster than you think, who writes all his project in rust
| but is now thinking to switch to haskell and will leave your
| company as soon as it find a company that use it"
| codegeek wrote:
| I.personally avoid "Shiny Language" developers.
| g8oz wrote:
| https://slack.engineering/taking-php-seriously/
| philippta wrote:
| This post is 5 years old. Slack migrated from PHP to Hack. By
| now you can not run PHP code in Hack anymore.
| hu3 wrote:
| In August I did database related consulting for a client which
| is build a large CRUD'ish application in Laravel. I was
| intrigued with their decision and they said the tech stack was
| chosen based on speed of iteration and developer availability.
| human wrote:
| Everyone.
| tdrdt wrote:
| I use C#, Javascript and PHP a lot.
|
| PHP always wins when it comes to deployment and productivity. In
| my opinion that's the power of PHP.
|
| It's also versatile. I used it for small projects, multi-million
| EUR projects, COM-port communication, API communication,
| prototyping and what not.
|
| The syntax is not great, but to me PHP is this multi-tool that
| just gets the job done and will run reliable for years.
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