[HN Gopher] Comparison of Operating System Complexity (2020) [pdf]
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       Comparison of Operating System Complexity (2020) [pdf]
        
       Author : marttt
       Score  : 34 points
       Date   : 2021-11-27 18:34 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (pspodcasting.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (pspodcasting.net)
        
       | JulianMorrison wrote:
       | The author likes ed.
       | 
       | From this you may draw any further conclusions necessary.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | ReleaseCandidat wrote:
       | A Plan 9 user yelling at clouds.
       | 
       | He does have some valid points, but his insults don't help.
       | 
       | And no, troff is neither elegant nor capable ;)
        
         | woodruffw wrote:
         | > And no, troff is neither elegant nor capable ;)
         | 
         | I accurately guessed that this essay/screed(?) was typeset in
         | troff, given the abundance of minor formatting and typesetting
         | errors.
         | 
         | This particular kind of "return to tradition" OS zealotry has
         | always deeply bewildered me: our own dear author can't complete
         | an essay in troff without scattering errors all over the place,
         | so why in the _world_ are they encouraging professional users
         | to give up all of the functionality that _prevents_ these
         | errors?
        
       | Bancakes wrote:
       | Just what _is_ inside modern software? Why is Windows 95 Word
       | tiny but office 365 Word needs gigabytes of RAM?
       | 
       | What is happening there? Putting 100K of integers in a linked
       | list gives you +100K of overhead. Putting 100K of text in Word
       | gives you 100M overhead. Ridiculous.
        
         | drainyard wrote:
         | A lot of modern programmers don't practice non pessimization.
         | Back of the envelope: what is feasibly the best this should
         | perform? So you end up with things that take up way more
         | resources tham necessary because anyone has at least 8GB of RAM
         | these days.
         | 
         | Back when there were more extreme hardware constraints you
         | couldn't ship if your program was going to take up all your RAM
         | in a few minutes.
         | 
         | I'm guessing this and that it has a lot more features (bot
         | necessarily necessary features) these days so automatically a
         | lot more engineers which means a lot more inexperienced
         | engineers because there are only so many experienced ones.
        
           | musicale wrote:
           | Office is what, 80M lines of code? Impossible for any human
           | to understand.
           | 
           | I expect it is only added to because 1) nobody understands
           | what would happen if you removed something and 2) if you
           | intentionally or inadvertently remove some obscure feature
           | then it breaks the workflow for people who inexplicably
           | depended on that feature.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | imachine1980_ wrote:
       | i was think about this like one hour ago, start why i need to
       | config docker to make php website, then migrate to when i start
       | to think i don't funking know anything in linux(after years of
       | using it), how x11 works(like really),not talking about multi
       | threading in the kernel, the idea of know how anything works is
       | relic of the past,i work in some next.js project have more file
       | than some of the old legacy UNIX, this is become insane but i
       | don't think this will slow down any time soon.
        
         | rackjack wrote:
         | Don't feel too bad about X11... iirc it's extremely difficult
         | to be compliant with the standard, since they apparently
         | codified the quirks of the different existing implementations
         | into the standard itself. Wayland is purportedly more sane.
         | 
         | Relevant discussion:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26418992
        
         | kaba0 wrote:
         | Oh and you haven't even started looking at the hardware below
         | all that!
         | 
         | But on a serious note, this complexity is not all useless. A
         | significant part of it is essential complexity that can't be
         | reduced. And frankly, these layered abstractions allow us to do
         | any real work. Just understand your stack very well and one or
         | possibly two layers below -- that is what makes you a great
         | developer.
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | I got to learn about Minoca OS, unfortunately it is yet another
       | POSIX clone, we already have enough of those.
        
       | rackjack wrote:
       | Does anybody have other texts on UNIX or proto-UNIX history? I
       | found the comparison between `ed` and `vi` enlightening.
        
       | musicale wrote:
       | I was disappointed that Multics wasn't on the list.
        
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       (page generated 2021-11-27 23:00 UTC)