[HN Gopher] An mRNA-based anti-tick vaccine ___________________________________________________________________ An mRNA-based anti-tick vaccine Author : chapulin Score : 166 points Date : 2021-12-30 18:08 UTC (4 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.science.org) (TXT) w3m dump (www.science.org) | _Microft wrote: | Google Scholar seems to be a referrer that unlocks the paywall: | | https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=55578496001721736... | andrewclunn wrote: | An article on the subject without a paywall: | | https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/2021/12/a-lab-st... | theptip wrote: | Interestingly, there was a Lyme vaccine in the late 90s that was | pulled from the market: | | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/ | | I think it's a shame it was withdrawn, with a low effectiveness | of 80% and even requiring annual boosters I'd view that as a | great option if I lived somewhere with deer ticks. Lyme disease | is scary. | partiallypro wrote: | I think the alpha-gal allegy is also scary. Hopefully this will | help with that. | giantg2 wrote: | I think the problem is that the main way of testing for Lyme is | to test for the antibodies. So what if you fall in the 20%? How | will you know? You'll still end up being treating whether | vaccinated or not. | theptip wrote: | I'm far more more concerned about "undetected tick bite => | lifetime incurable Lyme disease" than "detected tick bite => | unnecessary course of antibiotics". | inglor_cz wrote: | Last summer, I noticed an odd spot on a leg of my female | colleague when she arrived at work in a short skirt. | | Fortunately, we are good friends and I could tell her | without any kind of trouble. | | Yes, she had a tick on that precise place a week before. | Yes, it looked like erythema migrans, a typical early sign | of a Lyme infection (borreliosis). No, she never heard | about that and was a bit reluctant about doing anything | about it. Yes, I persuaded her to see her doctor _now_. She | got antibiotics immediately and seems to be fine. | coolso wrote: | > You'll still end up being treating whether vaccinated or | not. | | Isn't the typical treatment a course of antibiotics? In other | words the risks from being "unnecessarily" treated should be | fairly low. | throwawayboise wrote: | Any unnecessary use of antibiotics should be avoided, as it | can create an environment for the development of | antibiotic-resistant bacteria. | coolso wrote: | Yes, but I believe the most common antibiotics prescribed | for Lyme disease are doxycycline and monocycline, two | antibiotics that are used by millions daily (on a | somewhat long-term basis) already for the management of | things like acne. | | While certainly not ideal, with 8 million prescriptions | in the US alone, I'm not sure an additional potentially | unnecessary course of doxycycline is the worst thing in | the world when compared to the possibility that the | alternative is full blown Lyme disease. | CorrectHorseBat wrote: | Could we not check for the type of antibodies just like we do | with covid? | steffen84 wrote: | This how it's done in germany. Just got tested for Lyme | disease. Tick bite was in late summer no rash. The skin in | the area changed to red/blue after 5 months, so i got | tested and the test was positive. Antibodies IgG 46, IgM 5. | Now 3 weeks of antibiotics. | TelixBBS wrote: | [deleted] | reportingsjr wrote: | It is spreading. I'm in south west Ohio where it is unheard | of. Well, it was until a few years ago when people starting | getting it here. | jointpdf wrote: | You can see it spreading into Ohio (and elsewhere) in these | maps from 2001 to 2019: | https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/maps.html | TelixBBS wrote: | When I look at 2019 VS 2001, it looks like it is | spreading north... at least for the most eastern | states... | polskibus wrote: | What are you taking about? It's in most of Europe, Asia etc. | climate changes pushed ticks to new areas. It's not just | "east northern states". | Den-vr wrote: | https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/tables.html | | Indeed, it is not just "east northern states." | klyrs wrote: | I know one of the people who is represented in that | table. He got bit in New Jersey, and didn't notice the | target growing on his chest until he was driving home, | and didn't get treated until he arrived home in | Washington (because that's where he's insured; go | healthcare). The CDC would count that as a Washington | State incident. | | See point 3 in the study's stated limitations[1]: | | > 3. Surveillance data are captured by county of | residence, not county of exposure. | | Given that he was 1 of 12 cases in that year, I wouldn't | interpret that table as proof that the range of Lyme- | infected ticks has spread to Washington state. | | [1] https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/survfaq.html | TelixBBS wrote: | chris_wot wrote: | HN is read by people all over the world. Not just those | in the U.S. | TelixBBS wrote: | Enginerrrd wrote: | Here's the US prevalence map by county, it's definitely | pretty widespread: | | https://therevelator.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/lyme- | US-... | [deleted] | Den-vr wrote: | I agree the disease is scary. The antibiotic regiment has real | side-effects, I've known it to cause sunburns from casual | sunlight exposure. | | https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/tables.html | detritus wrote: | Ooh, reminds me of my days abusing St John's Wort (amongst a | great many other things) during Uni days and feeelig my skin | bristle and burn in the heat of light shards of sunlight | streaming between otherwise closed curtains... . | elric wrote: | Oh! This happened to me, and I thought I was just crazy | sensitive or something, but it turns out to be an actual | thing? After a few days on antibiotics for lyme, I walked to | the shop to buy sunscreen. Spent maybe 20 minutes outside. | Worst sunburn I've ever had. | | Anything that can help prevent tick borne diseases is a win | in my book. In Western Europe, in many cases that should | probably include restoring wildlife habitats... | throwawayboise wrote: | Veterinary vaccination for lyme disease is common. According to | Wikipedia, the human vaccine was withdrawn due to poor market | performance. | | Claims of autoimmune-type side effects led to several lawsuits, | and though CDC and FDA found no connection to the vaccine, the | public largely rejected it. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#Vaccination | GhettoComputers wrote: | Will this be a neutralizing vaccine? I like the idea of mRNA | based vaccines but unless it prevents infections and is permanent | like for polio, I don't see any great uptake if it's expected to | decompose rapidly like the COVID vaccines. | CorrectHorseBat wrote: | What would a neutralizing vaccine against ticks look like? And | why would it matter that much for a parasite that doesn't | usually go from human to human? | | The polio vaccination is 4 doses, and a booster every 10 years | if you are at risk. Maybe the covid vaccines will fare | similarly. Two shots very close to each other isn't ideal for | immunisation, we knew that from the beginning. | _Microft wrote: | Summary: the tests were conducted on guinea pigs because they can | develop immune reactions to repeated tick bites like humans do. | Mice do not seem to be suited for that for once. | | The vaccine was administered intradermally. It consists of | nucleoside-modified mRNA encapsulated in lipid nanoparticles like | we know them from Covid vaccines already. The contained mRNA | sequences encode 19 different proteins that are usually found in | the saliva of a particular kind of tick in the US. These proteins | were selected because of prior research it was known that they | seemed to cause inflammatory reactions in the host. The | inflammatory reaction that occured at the site of the tick bite | hampered feeding of the ticks and reduced risk of disease | transmission. The vaccine mostly seems to buy more time to remove | the ticks before an infection can take place because the disease | causing bacteria was not directly targeted by the vaccine. | SamBam wrote: | Interesting. At first I figured the title was misleading -- | surely they meant an anti-Lyme disease vaccination -- but it | turns out that, no, they mean exactly that: anti-tick. They're | training the immune system to recognize the tick saliva. This | means that the immune system would recognize the bite much | quicker, attack anything associated with it, and in general | activate the body's innate immune system faster, leading to a | faster response by the adaptive immune system. | | In their trials on hamsters, none of the hamsters with the | vaccine got Lyme disease, even though it wasn't a vaccine | directly targeting Lyme. | Eric_WVGG wrote: | That sounds amazing! | | The irony is, in the United States at least, a tick-proofing | vaccine would be most useful in areas where the population | has a relatively dim perspective on mRNA vaccines. | [deleted] | jdavis703 wrote: | Ridiculous. Among others, urban residents who enjoy rural | hikes and suburban residents who walk their dogs are all at | risk from tick bites. I've personally been bitten by ticks | more times than I can count, and ditto for my dog. | | Edit: and yes I know how to prevent bites, but sometimes | when you're in the US South and hiking on a hot summer day | you let your guard down. | lurquer wrote: | chrononaut wrote: | > The irony is, in the United States at least, a tick- | proofing vaccine would be most useful in areas where the | population has a relatively dim perspective on mRNA | vaccines. | | In what sense? The states most affected by Lyme[0] are | generally the most (COVID-19) vaccinated in the US[1] | | [0] https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/datasurveillance/maps- | recent.html | | [1] https://covidactnow.org/?s=27521640 | heavyset_go wrote: | If you go outside of the urban areas in those states, | you'll quickly enter many deep red areas. Take a look at | where the largest outbreaks are occurring in those | states, they're often the suburban and rural areas that | are 45+ minutes away from urban centers. | Spooky23 wrote: | Antivax for COVID is different, as it became a political | sports contest. | | Usually the groups who have low vaccination rates are | more extreme religious groups. It's usually not a big | deal from a broader population perspective - the | exception being measles. | mc32 wrote: | Oddly we had the current President and VP also saying | they'd never take a Trump vaccine[1]. So it's truly very | political for many people and not complete science based | even when now they claim to adhere to science. To wit: | | September 6, 2020: Kamala Harris says "I think that's | going to be an issue" when asked if she would get an | approved coronavirus vaccine. | | July 28, 2020: Joe Biden suggests the coronavirus vaccine | won't be "real" and may not be "safe." | | August 6, 2020: Biden says the vaccine is "not likely to | go through all the tests that needs to be and the trials | that are needed to be done." | | September 3, 2020: Biden asks "Who's going to take the | shot? Are you going to be the first one to say sign me | up?" | | September 7, 2020: Biden said he would take the | coronavirus vaccine "only if we knew all of what went | into it." | | [1] https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/campaign- | press-rel... | bremac wrote: | As I recall, the context of those comments was in | response to a purported attempt to fast-track any vaccine | to be ready prior to the election. The Washington Post | appears to have the same recollection [1]. | | [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/05/sc | alises-... | LarrySellers wrote: | The parent is copy/pasting from the linked press release | _from Trump_ which exclusively links to | _donaldtrumpcampaign.cmail20.com_. They know they 're | arguing in bad faith. | sdenton4 wrote: | States aren't homogeneous, though, and rural people in | blue states can be extra over the top in their | performative Trumpism. For example, there's a good case | to be made that California Republicans are much more | focused on performative Trumpism than on actually winning | elections. | Spooky23 wrote: | There's different cohorts of trumpists. Remember that | he's a demagogue/personality cult figure, with an orbit | of parasites adjacent to him. | | Rural people are lowercase conservative in general, but | his real power base are blue collar low information | nihilists. They see his vulgarity as "straight talk". But | the man isn't conservative. | | Somebody will figure out how to divide and conquer those | groups. | inglor_cz wrote: | There indeed are people whose immune systems will attack and | kill ticks. | | https://eu.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/health/lyme- | di... | johnchristopher wrote: | Question (from a regular joe): is the platform used for mRNA | vaccines interchangeable ? Same design and fabrication process, | but different payloads ? Or do different mRNA material imply | different lipid shells ? | [deleted] | grouphugs wrote: | throwawaymanbot wrote: | ce4 wrote: | Interesting. That is the second vaccine in 4 months, Pfizer / | Valnevas's upcoming (non mRNA) VLA15 was discussed here 4 months | ago: | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28312868 | cromulent wrote: | I'm hopeful that a side effect of this pandemic is a new age of | vaccine capability. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-12-30 23:00 UTC)