[HN Gopher] I Built a Shed (2020) ___________________________________________________________________ I Built a Shed (2020) Author : eduardosasso Score : 224 points Date : 2022-01-02 16:30 UTC (6 hours ago) (HTM) web link (eduardosasso.co) (TXT) w3m dump (eduardosasso.co) | thecrumb wrote: | Awesome! I bought a storage shed this summer and finished out the | inside. Was perfect timing with the cost of lumber increase LOL. | pengwing wrote: | Would you be interested in purchasing this partially pre-build | and delivered to you? | | (pre-painted, Including windows, door, insulation, electrical and | Ethernet wiring, fire-proof compliance, able to resist heavy | rain) | | Six elements total, clickable into each other. Assembly time | under one hour. | kingkawn wrote: | The point is to build it yourself | pengwing wrote: | For some. For others it isn't. | lonele wrote: | Good to see that now neighbours towards backyard can review your | Merge requests as well. | cf100clunk wrote: | PRO TIP: any standalone WFH structure should integrate a | Faraday Cage. | wforfang wrote: | I enjoyed reading that! Great job. | mwattsun wrote: | A lot of people in Santa Cruz are building secondary buildings on | their property since the city loosened the rules to help with the | housing crisis in the area. | atlgator wrote: | Is the roof slanted in the right direction? You are sending the | water toward your house instead of away from it. This might | create drainage problems in flash flood conditions. | readthenotes1 wrote: | Any thoughts on the color selection? | gertlex wrote: | I noticed that selecting text on the article doesn't change | colors. Probably not what you're referring to :) | | (I enjoyed the article.) | streblo wrote: | https://bikeshed.org/ | CodeGlitch wrote: | Also in the UK it's against regulation to have a wooden | structure so close to a residential property... Although this | is the US where most properties are made of wood... So probably | no such rule? | hinkley wrote: | Buildings that overlap are often seen as attempt to make an | addition without the right permits. They have zero sense of | humor about that over here either. | | Since the wall of this building is actually under the roof | line, they'll make him tear this down or reroof his house to | move it four inches over (although that might take a permit | too, since you're changing the roofline). Tearing it down is | cheaper. | | He may also be violating setbacks from the edge of the | property, but those have been diluted here so frequently in | large cities that he might be okay. | ErrantX wrote: | Your fine if it's under (iirc) 2m. The only hard rule is in | front of your property line. | pkaye wrote: | That is also the case in my area of the US. The wooden | structure must be a certain distance from the house, fence, | etc. However smaller structure don't need a permit so people | just ignore the rules if space is tight. And some areas don't | have strict enforcement of the building code particularly | rural areas. But those properties tend to have lots of space. | singlow wrote: | It is usually against code to shed water toward the property | line from that distance, so that may be the only option. | yashap wrote: | Could maybe slant it parallel to the house? Towards the | photographer in these photos - not directly at either the | house or the property line. | hinkley wrote: | Well then he'd get wet going into the shed. He might not | mind but his equipment will. Toward the fence or back would | be better. | | I also wonder from a water damage standpoint if he vented | this or he's counting on the door for ventilation. That | won't always be open. | kordlessagain wrote: | There is already impervious coverage on the ground, sloped | that way. This shed does nothing to change that, and it's not | attached to the ground. If you really want to get away with | this from a code standpoint, put wheels on it. | samwillis wrote: | It looks like it's designed to fit under of the eves of the | house while still providing head room and there is a down pipe | on the house that the shed can hook into sharing the soakway. | throwaway984393 wrote: | Congrats! It will probably take me 5x as long to build the same | thing because I'm a perfectionist who's always hemming and hawing | over changing plans or the right way to do things. It definitely | feels awesome once you complete it though. | wedn3sday wrote: | [deleted] | sagivo wrote: | I'm still surprised there are no DIY backyard offices out there | to purchase | porknubbins wrote: | Really enjoyed reading this and have always wanted to try. The | aesthetics came out better than I expected from a backyard shed | too. It seems like you got most stuff cut to size but I'm | wondering what power tools were required other than a nail gun I | assume. | vhodges wrote: | In a lot of places, buildings less than 100'sq do not need | permitting. https://www.redcoverstudios.com/blog/md100-plans-for- | modern-... are plans for one such out building. | uwagar wrote: | house > shed | | shed > ? | aliswe wrote: | a shed is better than nothing. | pengwing wrote: | If you are interested in this, could you please answer two | questions (warning: My lack of understanding is usually | offensive): | | - Do you regret having children? | | - Do you regret living together with your spouse? | dev_tty01 wrote: | So, by your thinking, anyone who leaves the home to go work in | an office regrets having children and regrets living with their | spouse. Yes, I agree with you, your lack of understanding is | offensive. | pengwing wrote: | I appreciate the downvotes as they confirm the emotional | damage, but I am not a fan of misusing logical implications. | | Obviously, in a pre-Covid world leaving your home to go to | work was simply the societal expectation of how to acquire an | income. WFH mostly came with economic downsides (lower | salary, no promotions). | | During Covid and post-Covid it's quite an interesting | question why somebody would voluntarily lobby to add unpaid | work time in the form of a commute to their day. | jefftk wrote: | I'm in a similar situation and also built something similar for | an office during covid. I definitely don't regret having | children or living with my spouse, and we actually decided to | have a third child (now 6m) during covid. | pengwing wrote: | Was it more about the building process for you or more about | the usage afterwards? | jefftk wrote: | I enjoyed building it, but the primary motivation was to | have the additional space | pengwing wrote: | So basically there was no dedicated room inside the house | for WFH before? | | When you use your shed, what are the aspects that you | came to value? E.g. is it more about the feeling of | nature (because the garden is much closer) or is it more | about the sound-separation from the rest of the home? Or | would you be as happy with a dedicated room within your | house? | jefftk wrote: | _> So basically there was no dedicated room inside the | house for WFH before?_ | | I was previously working from our bedroom. The main | downside was if I wanted to start working while my wife | was still asleep. | | _> When you use your shed, what are the aspects that you | came to value? E.g. is it more about the feeling of | nature (because the garden is much closer) or is it more | about the sound-separation from the rest of the home? Or | would you be as happy with a dedicated room within your | house?_ | | Sound separation, and not needing to work for my room | that also has another purpose. But a dedicated room with | in a house is better for me, and when one became | available I started working from there instead of the | shed. | pengwing wrote: | Interesting. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Did you | do extra-preparation on the extra room that is now | available to you? E.g. foaming walls or door to have the | same level of sound separation? | | Which direction of sound separation is more important to | you, incoming sound (not being disturbed) or outgoing | sound (not disturbing sleeping people with your work)? | jefftk wrote: | I am not particularly noise sensitive, so the amount of | sound separation you get just by being in a separate room | is usually enough for me. | | The shed has excellent noise separation, however, which | occasionally has been useful in letting friends work | there for a while. | pengwing wrote: | How do you handle something highly noise sensitive like | baby crying in another room while being on a Zoom call? | wedn3sday wrote: | Came here expecting some classic bikeshedding, was not | disappointed. | [deleted] | Underphil wrote: | Are you able to elaborate? Do you mean in the article or in the | comments? | aliswe wrote: | allthe "this is not to code" comments i guess | 41b696ef1113 wrote: | Municipal codes are written in blood. Little of the | feedback I am seeing is negative about the trivial details. | jefftk wrote: | Bikeshedding is arguing about stuff that doesn't matter | (ex: color). Pointing out that something is built | dangerously is not bikeshedding. | mdani wrote: | I would probably reroute the end of the rain sprout on the left | side of the shed away from the shed, since it would put lots of | water at the base of the shed whenever it rains, weakening the | base of the shed. | beamatronic wrote: | It's my life's dream to do a project like this. | Underphil wrote: | What is stopping you? | ricardobayes wrote: | What about HVAC? This structure will be unbearable in the summer | months. | agentwiggles wrote: | You could cool it really nicely with a small mini split system. | idlewords wrote: | Close reading suggests this should be titled "my wife and I built | a shed". | manicennui wrote: | Michael Pollan wrote a book about the office that he built for | himself. | | https://michaelpollan.com/books/a-place-of-my-own/ | cf100clunk wrote: | Check your insurance coverage! Erecting a structure that does not | meet local electrical and building codes, zoning bylaws, etc. may | either threaten or void your insurance. In the event of the worst | case scenario (fire, flood, collapse, etc.) you will likely not | get a payout. | Grakel wrote: | Cool! A coat of gloss will make your exterior paint last a lot | longer and seal everything better. A nice exterior gloss paint is | like a skin for your walls. | | Anybody looking to do this, you could probably go 8x8 for the | same money, plywood comes 4x8 and most lumber comes in 8' | lengths. | thecrumb wrote: | Yes! When I bought my shed I didn't consider 4x8 dimensions and | it bit me in the end when finishing it out. | throwaway984393 wrote: | You can also go to your local reused building materials store | and see what they've got, and change your plans around a bit | to fit those materials. You might find a bundle of boards not | quite 8'/16' but could save you a pretty penny (and it just | helps the environment) | pagana wrote: | There is a beautifully illustrated book on just this topic: How | to Build a Shed by Sally Coulthard (https://www.amazon.com/How- | Build-Shed-Sally-Coulthard/dp/178...). | | The instructions are so well-designed that it's a pleasure to | read even if you're not completing the project. | runjake wrote: | That is the same book the author of the post mentions at the | top of the article. | | No need to re-recommend it. We read the article :-) | antisthenes wrote: | I can't decide what's worse. | | The fact that you need a shoddily built (I'd be ashamed to post | something like this on the internet) 6x6 shed to work in, while | you have a perfectly fine house right next to it. | | Or how many fear-mongering code NIMBYs there are in this thread. | Some even threatening to doxx the OP. Yikes. Do you guys know how | much legacy not-up-to-code housing stock there is across the | country, that's actually dangerous to inhabit? And you chose to | cry wolf about an accessory structure CA? | hermitcrab wrote: | When we bought our house it came with a run-down 'summer house' | in the garden. We had it plastered and insulated and added a | laminate floor. We ran an armoured electricity cable from the | house through a trench and attached it to the house alarm system. | We then got the an 'L' shaped desk custom built by a neighbour | (who is a joiner). Heating is provided by an electrically powered | radiator. I've been working there now (as a 1-man-band software | product company) for the last 11 years. It's been great. | CodeGlitch wrote: | Was going to mention that not way is that roof steep enough for | water run off, but I see he encountered that problem already. | | Also isn't this going to get really hot in the summer? A small | air con unit could work well with a hole cut for the vent? | stevenhubertron wrote: | I was considering doing something similar this spring, but | instead of trenching my yard I was considering solar and just a | small mesh network to get to the corner of my backyard, maybe 300 | feet from the house. My thought was that it would be an office | and reading area. Perhaps a place to nap away from the kiddo as | well :) | japhyr wrote: | Minor etymological note: the word _plumb_ describes something | that 's hanging vertically. It comes from the latin word plumbum | (lead). When people wanted to make sure something was vertical, | they'd hang a lead weight from a string, and align the string | with whatever was supposed to be vertical. Even though we've | moved on to different metals, we still call them plumb bobs, and | we still say that a vertical part of a house is "plumb". | | https://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Hand-Tools-Marking-Tools-L... | leetcrew wrote: | I knew "plumbum" meant "lead", but I'd always assumed the | etymology of "plumbing" was just that pipes were historically | made of lead. thanks for posting! | hinkley wrote: | Plumbing can also be the act of making something plumb, but | generally people use specific sentence fragments to make that | clear. | | I was plumbing a wall when I dropped my hammer and had to | start all over. | [deleted] | georgewsinger wrote: | I approve of the Herman Miller Aeron :] | progfix wrote: | Two other posts from today: | | * Ask HN: Why does a busy man build a shed? | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29767682) | | * Why I Live In a Shed | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29762145) | | Does HN have some kind of mechanism that promotes posts with | similar keywords? | hddherman wrote: | I've noticed this happening as well, and the explanation that | I've stuck with is that the follow-up posts are posted by | readers who recognize a similar article they've previously read | that's deserving of a (re)post on HN. | detaro wrote: | That, or they go searching for additional information and | find related articles. | | Another easy one to spot: there's sometimes clusters of | articles from the same site if it's not a well-known one - | people look around the site, find other good stuff and submit | that too. | progfix wrote: | Sure, but I noticed those similar posts always have the same | keywords in them. This time it is "sheds" and I am a little | bit in disbelief that someone is gonna post more about sheds | :). The first post wasn't even about sheds, it was a question | about hobbies. | | I don't say that this bad or anything, in fact I like that | every day has a different topic on the front page. If this is | a natural phenomenon then I have not heard about it yet (and | it might be interesting to research?). | yurishimo wrote: | No. A lot of people in tech really like to live vicariously | through other makers (woodworking, esp). It appeals to both the | DIY crowd, which in a way is basically our entire career, and a | real life problem of programmers not being able to work in | peace, whether at home, or in a bullpen of peers. | hermitcrab wrote: | Men love sheds. | tibbydudeza wrote: | Nice - what did you do for ventilation ???. | Paul_S wrote: | This whole thing is just a fire hazard but this is just dangerous | advice to be giving people: | | "PRO TIP Use screws for everything; if you mess up, remove the | screws and redo it; with nails, it's a lot harder to do that." | | Please don't, screws shear. Don't learn constrtuction from | someone who hasn't learnt it himself. | | As for writing about your experience like this, write a blog | about something in your own field or otherwise don't give advice. | It could end up with someone getting hurt. | tkiolp4 wrote: | > As for writing about your experience like this, write a blog | about something in your own field or otherwise don't give | advice. | | I don't get it. I see the majority of us, developers, writing | about software without having a deep knowledge on the subject. | The author's shed is no more to me like the usual post "I built | Twitter in Rust on a weekend". Should we all stop giving "PRO | tips"? | mminer237 wrote: | Yes? If you're just starting to code, you shouldn't give out | advice like you know everything. You're not a pro and you | shouldn't be masquerading as one. You should be listening to | advice, not giving it. You really want advice everywhere of | "Coding pro tip: always make all variables strings because | then you can put numbers or letters in there and you don't | have to use multiple types."? | Paul_S wrote: | Yes, because he is giving dangerous advice. Hey! This weekend | I operated on my cat, pro tip, nail the cat down to avoid him | moving. If you write a twitter in rust then giving the wrong | advice will at worst spur someone to create another | successful startup. | throwaway9870 wrote: | The irony is you are telling people to not write about things | they aren't qualified to write about, but that is exactly what | you are doing. | | There are structural screws that are excellent options for | framing. GRK and Simpson make extremely well regarded | structural screws that, at least in the US, are accepted for | framing most/all building code offices. | | Here is an example of a Simpson screw: | https://www.strongtie.com/strongdrive_exteriorwoodscrews/sdw... | | Here is a GRK: | https://www.grkfasteners.com/structural/r4-multi-purpose-scr... | | And the author is right - if you are a weekend warrior, they | are far better than framing nails. You don't need a nail gun, | just an impact driver which is usually less expensive and more | useful for other tasks. They don't split the wood as much as a | framing nailer, are generally more accurate to put in, and can | be easily removed if needed. | locallost wrote: | Heh, I am glad I read the comments here. I bought a piece of land | (a garden basically), and it has an old house / shack where the | roof needs to go. I am debating internally for two days now if I | should replace the roof myself or not or just bite the bullet and | pay somebody. I am on a kind of a sabbatical so in theory I have | time, and the idea is tempting, but it's definitely not software. | hattmall wrote: | Go with the metal roof, very easy to install and last a long | long time. Assuming you have a fairly simple roofline anyway. | cbsks wrote: | I am in the process of planning something similar at my house. My | county requires a land use permit for any new development, as | well as a building permit because power will be run. Both of | those permits require plans to be submitted and take multiple | weeks to be approved. It's worthwhile to check at your local | planning office if you care about such things. | jdgoesmarching wrote: | If anyone is looking into this, I really like Shed King | (shedking.net) for plans. They have a few shed models you can | choose from, costs around $20, include shopping lists, and are | super thorough. | | I recently snagged the 12x16 with porch plans. I'm excited to | give this a shot. | mgarfias wrote: | Wow. Just wow. | | Not gonna pollute with comments about it that others have already | made. | | I will add that I am making electrical/gas renovations to the | house/detached garage. | | Basically we are adding LP to the house for my new range, and a | gas water heater. Also ran gas to the garage for powering a | genset. The past year or so has taught me the import of off grid | solutions for certain things like cooking and hot water. | | So, I had to dig a trench from the house to the garage. Code | called for 18" deep, but I went as deep as my backhoe would | allow. Grey pvc conduit was put in for elec, a separate tube for | fiber, and pex for water. | | The LP co, came and installed a 250gal tank on a pad I poured, | then ran gas in some kinda pex-like tubing to the house and | garage. County eventually came out to inspect and signed off, | allowing me to back fill (partly down now). Next steps are to | finish connecting the pvc to the house, finish the water run, and | then I need to buy the copper for the elect run - probably $1500 | worth. | | The only bits I'm concerned about is getting the power shut off, | and power lines moved to the underground conduit I've placed from | the pile to the house as I'll need an actual electrician or will | have to wait a week for the power company to turn back on after | the shut off. | mgarfias wrote: | Oh, I'd add that my current power runs through the trees to the | house, and from the house to the garage in the trees. And the | house is nearly 50 years old, and therefor grandfathered in | without an electrical shutoff on the side of the house. Part of | this project is to fix all that. | patleeman wrote: | Very cool. I love these DIY office setups. | | The author mentioned organizing material transport by figuring | out what would fit in his car. I would highly recommend just | renting a flatbed truck from home depot to transport your | materials home if they don't fit in your car. Its usually | something like $20 to rent for an hour. | | Also I wonder if the author has any plans to heat/cool the space. | Seems like they might live in a temperate area. I'd would | probably just install one of those DIY mini-split units to | heat/cool the office if necessary. | jefftk wrote: | Buying materials online with delivery (~$75) can also be a | really good approach, especially if you know everything you're | going to need up front. | ohazi wrote: | Not that anything about this shed is built to code, but this | takes the cake: | | > PRO TIP Use screws for everything; if you mess up, remove the | screws and redo it; with nails, it's a lot harder to do that. | | You absolutely should not do this for framing, and most building | codes specify the type and size of nails that you _must_ use when | fastening load-bearing structural components. | | Screws are convenient, sure, but they are necessarily much harder | than nails and are prone to embrittlement and cracking, while | nails are soft and pliable. You _can_ get structural screws, but | they 're uncommon, expensive, and I'd wager they weren't used | here (they're _much_ beefier than a similarly rated framing | nail). | rpnzl wrote: | Definitely want to use nails for framing (especially in zones | that might experience the shearing forces of an earthquake) -- | here are a couple of links so folks can see for themselves: | | [Project Farm](https://youtu.be/qmajKElnwfE) | | [Vancouver Carpenter](https://youtu.be/5-PlR8tf84c) | jjeaff wrote: | In that project farm video, the screws came out stronger than | nails in every test except the repeated bend test (even the | drywall screws). I think it could be argued that since screws | are much stronger and have better holding power, they are | much less likely to get loose enough to the point that they | are going to be repeatedly bending back and forth. | rpnzl wrote: | I think this is valid -- I'm not a structural engineer so I | can't speak to how an earthquake might behave differently | than the tests in the Project Farm video, but I can imagine | a scenario where a screw becoming a bit loose would create | a situation that more closely resembles the repeated bend | test. | | The IBC still outlines nails as appropriate light frame | fasteners [0], and where I am (on Maui) there's no local | provision in the code to allow swapping in screws. The GRKs | [1, 2] and Simpson [3] screws others have mentioned are | seemingly valid alternatives to 16d nails, but ultimately | it's going to come down to what you're comfortable with, | the local code, the inspector, etc. | | [0] https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IBC2021P1/chapter-23- | wood#... | | [1] https://www.grkfasteners.com/structural/r4-multi- | purpose-scr... | | [2] https://www.grkfasteners.com/structural/rss-rugged- | structura... | | [3] https://www.strongtie.com/strongdrive_exteriorwoodscrew | s/sdw... | hinkley wrote: | You can burn up a lot of time on Project Farm. Beware/enjoy. | kevan wrote: | As much as everyone loves to complain about red tape, building | codes have a lot of useful info. Even if you're not going to | pull permits (at your own risk) it's useful to be aware of what | code requires and why. Specific examples from the post: | | * Plywood thickness required for floor decking | | * Min roof slope for asphalt shingles | | * Drip edge, where it's required and how to install it | | * Roof drainage - probably doesn't matter because California | but as a general rule you never want to channel water towards | your foundation. | | In the grand scheme these are relatively minor. They'll | probably need to demolish the thing when they sell the house | long before the roof slope causes water issues. | hinkley wrote: | Are termites a problem down there? Seems like he's created a | termite magnet with all that wood exposed to water damage. | yurishimo wrote: | I thought the entire backyard was already brick/pavers? I | doubt there are many termites hanging out on top of those | waiting for some wood to get a little damp. If it was | pressure treated, it should be fine to use those beams as a | sort of footer on the pavers "foundation". | hinkley wrote: | I was thinking more of the splashing back and forth | between the house and the shed, getting in the siding and | causing issues. | thathndude wrote: | I raised an eyebrow at the roof choice as well. The roof | slopes towards the foundation? Odd choice | jacquesm wrote: | And related to this, but floor joists, roof construction and | other carrying components (foundation) are all super | important to get right. | rootusrootus wrote: | > You can get structural screws, but they're uncommon, | expensive | | And _worth it_. I have boxes of different sizes of Simpson | strong-tie and strong-drive screws and I adore them. And they | 're mostly available at any Home Depot. | hinkley wrote: | I was going to post about code violations but I'll just tuck it | under yours here so we don't flood the top level (although one | could argue that this really deserves it). | | I had to stop reading r/diy because half the stuff in there | made me angry. Especially people building lofts to store heavy | stuff without knowing anything about construction. | | You can't overlap rooflines like this. That's how they allow | people to build small outbuildings but make large projects have | to get permits. If the roofs "touch" then you're using a | loophole to make an illegal addition to your house instead of a | shed. | | > The way I did it was to run both wires inside a 3/4 inch PVC | conduit using 14/2 electrical wiring + 100ft cat6 ethernet | cable. | | You are going to get somebody killed. I didn't see you dig a | trench, which means you have a single _plastic_ conduit | carrying power and data and exposed to the air. It's supposed | to be grounded metal buried conduit to create a faraday cage | that can't be electrified by nearby lightning strikes or hit by | a tree or debris in a wind storm. And deep enough the next | owner doesn't kill themselves planting a hydrangea. | | I have half a mind to doxx you to your city planning office. | tharkun__ wrote: | I like your parent's explanation of _why_ screws are not | allowed by code in some places and also saying that yes, | screws actually _can_ be used, if you use the right ones, | even if they aren 't allowed by code in some places. | | I really like that because just mentioning code doesn't do | any good. Just because code says something doesn't mean that | it makes sense. There's tons of omissions in codes or stuff | that is unnecessarily restrictive or way not enough to be | safe. | | Screws are the perfect example. If code forbids screws but | you are going to use the proper screws that are (with good | reason) allowed in other jurisdictions that has a completely | different vibe to it than someone blogging about using dry | wall screws to frame a house. One is a safety concern and why | inspections are a good thing, while another is a minor case | of ignoring code without any concerns and where an inspection | would suck (if you were the homeowner doing some work | yourself). If they want to use something that is more | expensive and let's them do something themselves that they | wouldn't be able to do at all if they had to use nails, more | power to them! Change code to allow the right type of screws! | | Your second part of the reply does the same, it sort of | explains why you think it's a bad idea (and I agree that it | is for various reasons). | | Could you explain _why_ it is not a good idea to overlap roof | lines? | hinkley wrote: | Overlapping rooflines allow you to make a "detached" | building that is functionally an addition to your house. | The downside is that if you want to build a breezeway to a | detached garage you're going to have to get permits to do | that. It sucks but otherwise you get people who make a long | narrow house that's a series of rooms that were built over | time, and never inspected. | | You may see properties that have three fairly large but | separate buildings, this is often someone skirting building | codes in such a way that they stay within the letter of the | law. | tharkun__ wrote: | This is exactly the reason I asked for reasoning. A | perfect example of a specific reason for something in | code where depending on what you are doing yourself you | can safely ignore the code violation (except for the | legality part). If the reason you gave is indeed the | reason and only reason. | | I would argue that if inspections for safety reasons are | why this is in code then code needs to remove this | restriction and other rules should be put in place and | inspections should become less expensive, easier to get | done etc. Basically make it easier and less of a problem | for people to get inspected. You will still get people | that won't do one of course. Make it possible to inspect | them anyway. Of course I understand that there are | conflicting priorities at work here too. Meaning funding. | The optimal way for everyone would be quite expensive. So | we get suboptimal solutions that are sometimes "OK" to | circumvent and sometimes not. | | Here the bylaws for example allow one main structure, a | shed and a detached garage (even if you have an attached | one already). No need for roof overhang code stuff. The | intent of the bylaw is also much more clear. | | The guy in the article arguably is creating such a | detached building. He is also in violation of rules about | how far structures have to be from the property line | assuming the rules in his place are like here and that | fence is towards the neighbors. | hamburglar wrote: | This still doesn't explain why overlapping rooflines are | actually problematic, though. I have always wondered this | myself, as I actually own a house with a detached garage | where the previous owner and next door neighbor put an | easement on file that allowed the next door neighbor | (whose ground level is about 5 feet higher via a | retaining wall) to build an outbuilding very close to the | property line with the roofline hanging over my garage by | about 6 inches. So far, the only practical downside is | that my downspout ends up getting all the water from half | of his roof, which means the problem is worse if I don't | keep it clear. Not a terribly big problem in my book, | since I have to keep it clear anyway. What else am I | missing? | | (Note: there are other things that are suboptimal about | my garage, namely that it was built 100 years ago right | on the property line and when it was rebuilt sometime | later, it was allowed to stay there despite normally | having a 5 foot setback requirement. As a result, this | concrete block structure itself actually serves as part | of the retaining wall and has moisture seepage issues | from the uphill side. I actually think having the | neighbor's outbuilding covering that patch of land and | managing the rainwater via my downspout helps the matter, | because the ground between them gets no rainfall at all.) | alistairSH wrote: | In this case, the shed will have rain runoff into the | house. Possibly not a problem, but generally not a good | idea. | | Also, as mentioned, sheds don't usually need inspected. | Sheds with power that act as extensions to the home | should be (should = good idea) but might not be required, | depending on location. Basically, some of these rules are | to prevent uninspected/unpermitted extensions to the main | dwelling. | hinkley wrote: | It's a "this is why we can't have nice things" situation. | There's no physics problem with overlapping that I know | of, but it's a giant loophole for people who are up to no | good. | | It's not so much that you shouldn't be able to do it as | that there's no way we _can_ do it without a permit. | horsawlarway wrote: | The water management issue is a bigger deal in some | locations. | | In the original post, he's sloped the new roof back | towards the house - huge issue where I live (Atlanta - we | got a lot of heavy rain) since that's going to cause | water entry in the basement or erosion on the foundation. | | It can also be a fire hazard in many situations. Ex - in | my area there's a mandated 10ft gap between the property | line and any structure. It's there to prevent people from | building right up to the property line, essentially | creating townhomes, but with none of the fire/safety | planning those require. | | All that said - I agree with you, this code is likely | there to discourage people trying to skirt around | inspections (and because it's easy to spot). | ethbr0 wrote: | Rainfall treatment around foundations is the most bizarre | "new city" difference. | | Previously lived on clay soil above the freeze line: | everything needed substantial gutters and routing away | from home. | | Now live in sandy soil below the freeze line: most people | don't even have gutters. | hamburglar wrote: | So you think my garage is fine? Seeking anonymous expert- | sounding internet validation :D | ethbr0 wrote: | The thing to remember about building codes is that | they're _one_ solution to a problem. More often than not, | one good solution. That isn 't to say they're the _only_ | solution. | | So for new construction or reno, absolutely follow code! | | But for old construction that doesn't have obvious | dangers and has served its purpose across decades? Why | fix what ain't broke? It's entirely possibly it's a | perfectly viable alternative solution. | R0b0t1 wrote: | You don't need to take power underground. Most midwestern | construction doesn't and I usually see PVC conduit. There are | hazards from breakage, but putting it in PVC conduit tends to | exceed code. | amluto wrote: | Ignoring the type of conduit, there's NM-B and CM (hopefully) | in the _same_ conduit. | | NM-B is not allowed outdoors (in "wet locations") [0], and | running your Ethernet cable and your power in the same | conduit is no good. (Look up the code for feeders supplying | structures -- this is not even close to how it's done. Maybe | you can squeak by and consider this a structure supplied by a | branch circuit, but there are still code requirements to pay | attention to.) | | Also, that weather resistant barrier.... Imagine you are a | drop of rainwater on the outside of that WRB, following | gravity. Where do you go? Straight to the exposed OSB | sticking out at the bottom. The sheathing is toast in heavy | rain. | | [0] NM-B has _paper_ running through it. Good old-fashioned | water-wicking brown paper. If it gets a bit wet in a flooded | conduit (hint: every outdoor conduit can be assumed to flood | eventually), it will wick along the cable and never dry. | | edit: there is absolutely no requirement that buried conduit | be metal. In my experience, despite code allowing various | types of galvanized steel conduit to be buried, they tend to | corrode severely long before whatever wires are in them are | safely disconnected, creating a hazardous situation. You can | use PVC, HDPE, etc. | lazide wrote: | Keep in mind, while yes this is a huge code issue mixing low | voltage and high voltage - 'it depends' in a lot of | jurisdictions on other elements. | | Following is for other folks running across this, in case it | helps them. | | At least in California, I'm pretty sure it's code compliant | to use _rated_ non-metallic conduit for outside high voltage | runs for instance. That conduit is made of PVC. It's the grey | plastic electrical conduit at every hardware store (if | branded as UV resistant /outdoor rated). | | Normal PVC pipe (for water) falls apart at too low a | temperature and becomes super brittle when exposed to | Sunlight surprisingly quickly. | | It's a much better idea to use EMT or even 'hard' conduit | depending on how it's exposed, but it's not required. EMF | protection is nice, but I haven't seen a such a requirement | for power feeds in residential anyway. If using 3 phase and | some industrial equipment I imagine you'd be a jerk to not do | so, but most residential neighborhoods here have overhead | unshielded lines anyway. | | Running to a separate detached building has a bunch of rules | around grounding (for which you'll find multiple mutually | exclusive and conflicting codes across the county). Many | areas don't have lightning suppression rules though. | | Depending on exactly how the building is constructed | (technically 'mobile' vs 'fixed) also changes codes a lot. | Running the equivalent of an extension cord to a 'mobile' | structure (which can be functionally fixed) is perfectly fine | as long as it's GFCI protected for instance. Not that he did | that. | | Ideally it would be a separate sub panel, grounded and | protected as such, with proper rated conduit, etc. | | But the bar is a lot lower than what you're saying if someone | follows some basic guidelines. And can be done safely. | | But yeah, Article Author - you're going to get someone | killed. Jesus. | PaulDavisThe1st wrote: | > It's a much better idea to use EMT | | You cannot bury EMT underground. | | One of the nice things about actual metal conduit, | depending on the nature of the soil where you live, is that | it only needs to be buried 7" down to meet NEC rules. PVC | conduit requires significantly more depth. | hinkley wrote: | Ah yes, I know about the grey PVC but spaced on it. | Typically this is for external runs bolted to the side of a | building though. Or at least, that's almost all I ever see | it used for. Can you use it for open air horizontal runs? | Say between two buildings? | | Data you want shielded, for the reasons I stated. Stringing | Ethernet between buildings often ends in tears. | jefftk wrote: | I ran outdoor-rated cat6 in metal conduit between my | house and shed, about 6 feet, and it has worked very | well. What do you see as the problem? | hattmall wrote: | The cat 6 is fine, it's the power cable that's an issue. | Realistically in this scenario it's fine too, it should | be branched off of a GFCI. The only issue with the | network cable is that it picks up static from lightning | and blows some equipment, you can put Ethernet breakers | on both ends though. | zrail wrote: | Not the OP but my understanding is that you're probably | fine if that metal conduit is grounded. If you're | stringing ethernet around outside you want properly | grounded surge suppressors on both ends. | 404mm wrote: | I can comment on the second portion of this issue- never run | Cat cables in parallel with electric cable. | | You are forcing low voltage and high voltage cables to share | their electromagnetic field. That's never a good thing. It | can lead to unstable connection all the way to frying your | Ethernet card. | saxonww wrote: | Good news: he ran a 100ft cat6 cable so that he could plug | in a wireless access point. His ethernet card should be | fine. | hamburglar wrote: | ... but isn't there still a risk to whatever devices are | on both ends of that cat6? ie the access point and the | head-end router or switch? | ryandrake wrote: | Thank you both. The number of "Wow this is so cool!" | encouragement-replies here is pretty scary. Building a shed | is definitely something most people can DIY, but please don't | make it hazardous! And, at least make an attempt to look up | local building codes. Even if conformance is not required for | your particular application, they can be used as a reference | for best practices. | | I believe some jurisdictions now occasionally check e.g. | Google Maps to look for obvious things like sheds built too | close to existing structures (which this one likely is), so | it's possible he'll get an unrequested visit from code | enforcement anyway. | jacquesm wrote: | Putting signalling and power wires in the same conduit is | about as bad as it gets. | | The proper way to do this is to dig a trench and use armored | cable suitable for burial without further protection and to | use a plastic uninterrupted tube for the cat6 (which you can | blow through). | | That said, there isn't a lot of difference between a DIY | person and a low grade contractor, and a competent DIY'er is | probably better than most mid level contractors. The big | difference is usually that they have the tools and they're | with a couple of people and you're just by your lonesome. | stickfigure wrote: | It's short. Put a normal extension cord in the "conduit", | with plugs on each end. At least here in California, | electrical code ends at the receptacle. You can do | practically anything you want on the other side, as long as | it plugs in. | raytube wrote: | Just expose the armoured cable. Hardly an issue, and you | know where it is. | jacquesm wrote: | Not a good idea. The outer layer is plastic, underneath | that something that is best described as an oversized | shower hose. Burying it will allow you to take vehicles, | wheel barrows, lawnmowers etc over it without damaging | it. | | I bought a ton of this stuff surplus from a dam | construction, that served me quite well in Canada, some | of the outbuildings were quite far away from the main | house. It's pretty easy to work with, though stripping it | is a bit of an art (you _really_ don 't want to damage | the inner wires). | 0xbadcafebee wrote: | The author's shed is about 2 feet from the house | exterior, so he can wrap the steps around as decking | (very tiny decking) and put the cable under the steps. | ErrantX wrote: | You can get armoured cable specifically with UV rating | for this. I'd only ever run it against a wall etc. But it | is designed to be above ground. | 0xbadcafebee wrote: | You just went from concerned citizen, to person with anger | management issues lashing out. If your thoughts here were in | good faith, you would help the author learn about code | compliance so that he could make the necessary modifications | and learn about the real-world consequences of not being in | compliance. Instead you're making a threat to send code | enforcement after him so that he can be punished for being | ignorant. Please try to re-evaluate the feelings you have and | ask yourself if there is a more positive, less harmful way to | use those feelings. | wbl wrote: | The punishment for building code violations is death. The | building code enforcement is a lot more lenient in | comparison. | jholman wrote: | Help me to understand who dies when the rooflines | overlap? | jefftk wrote: | That's a pretty big overstatement. For example, using | insufficient insulation is a code violation, but it is | not going to kill you. | hamburglar wrote: | Also, the punishment isn't necessarily meted out on the | actual perpetrator. | sixstringtheory wrote: | All the people replying to this minimizing the concerns | of the original comment need to go back and reread it. | The point that really raised their hackles was the | electrical issue, not insulation or overlapping | rooflines. | | Electricity can instantly kill you or start a fire, which | could kill you and your neighbors. Look at what just | happened in Boulder. Fire is dangerous, especially when | combined with high winds. I personally saw that play out | twice while living in Boston, one of which was determined | to have been caused by sparks from unpermitted welding, | the other by improper disposal of smoldering construction | debris. Both small starts whipped up by winds, both times | multiple people died. | | The phrase I've heard is "regulations are written in | blood." | R0b0t1 wrote: | Most building codes are not a life or death matter. Most | of them are windowsill clearance, door clearance, minutia | about the spacing of steps. In some locations you have | really stupid proscriptions about load bearing structure | types (so e.g. you can't use a metal frame for your house | simply because they specify you must use wood). | adolph wrote: | Something I appreciate about HN is the number of reverse- | bikeshedding moments there are and for which the parent comment | exemplifies. Points out a critical flaw and explains it in | plain language with no rhetorical flourishes. | | _Bikeshedding describes our tendency to spend too much time | discussing trivial matters, and too little time discussing | important matters as a result. It describes the inverse | relationship between time spent and the importance of an | issue._ | | https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/bikeshedding/ | Fwirt wrote: | Also it sounds like he ran both the low voltage network cable | and the high voltage line-level power wiring inside of the same | conduit which is a big no-no for various code and safety | related reasons. From what I understand messing with electric | code violations is not a good idea, if your homeowners | insurance finds out you put in some janky stuff like that and | your house burns down, they might invalidate your policy | because it was your fault. | hinkley wrote: | A plastic conduit, ffs. | adventured wrote: | The home insurance people will absolutely nail him on this. | They'll eventually send someone out to inspect the property | on a policy renewal. They'll refuse to renew the policy until | the code violations are corrected. And they'll definitely | notice and have questions about the odd 'shed' that looks new | and very out of place. | | If he has really wired it as it seems, if anything | consequential (unrelated) happens to the property in the | meantime they'll use that against him when they inspect post | event. They'll try to claim he breached the policy prior to | the event. | sokoloff wrote: | Where do you live that insurance companies send inspectors | 'round? I've owned 2 houses for a total of over 25 years | and never had an insurance inspector visit nor heard of | them visiting anyone else for a renewal. | | Is this common elsewhere in the world? | chrisdhal wrote: | I have rental properties and it happens about every other | year before a renewal. They definitely find things that | need fixing. That being said, I've never had it happen on | my primary residence (20+ years). | dudul wrote: | Been a homeowner for 10+ years and it never happened to | me either. I only see insurance people when I have a | claim to evaluate the cost. | jjeaff wrote: | Home insurance covers stupidity as well as acts of god, in | most cases They might send an inspector and then refuse to | insure, but if you are paying the premium and make an out of | code change that causes a claim, they are going to have to | pay out for the most part unless your out of code changes are | super negligent. Using screws instead of nails would | definitely not be considered super negligent. Nor would | anything ever be inspected close enough to notice that. | Running electrical through the wrong type of PVC is also not | likely to be considered negligent enough to deny a claim. Of | course, doing everything right the first time is the better | way to go anyway as you never know when an insurance may | become super petty and try to deny a claim for whatever | reason they can find. | InvertedRhodium wrote: | PVC-U cable ducting for 240V cabling is the norm here in NZ, | just helped my dad lay about 60m of it from the house to the | office. I doubt it's going to be the end of the world. | 14 wrote: | That was the first thing I noticed as well. I don't blame him | mind you since I would have assumed they are better and easier | as well but recently my brother who is a carpenter told me you | have to use nails they are needed. This just reminds me that | being handy is good but knowing code is critical for some | thing. In this case he will probably get away with just screws. | rectang wrote: | > _being handy is good but knowing code is critical for some | things_ | | The subject of building code seems vast. How can you get to | the point where you even know what you don't know? | simpsond wrote: | You can always do it the hard way and have an inspector | tell you what is wrong, fix it, repeat. The whole point of | inspection is to get it right. This method isn't cost | efficient for starting. Find friends to ask questions | before starting to reduce inspection failures. | 14 wrote: | The simple answer is testing. When you go to school you get | a test that certifies you have a basic knowledge. It may | not cover every aspect but will teach you where to find the | answers you don't know. | rectang wrote: | Oh? School for what? Maybe general contracting? | | A while back I looked briefly into what it would take to | be an electrician, and it seemed like there was quite a | lot to know. I wonder how soon you get to the stage where | you could wire up a shed like this with full confidence | that you've done everything to code. | | From there, how many other subjects do you have to get | right? I learned how to swing a hammer as a kid but I | wouldn't know jack about designing load bearing | structures, weather proofing, foundations, hanging | windows and doors, etc -- let alone plumbing, HVAC, etc. | 14 wrote: | Electrical is a whole field of expertise. To wire a shed | to code however is not that hard. I've done my dad's tiny | home personally and then had my electrician friend come | in after and said it was all done and to code. Some of | the skills overlap but usually the carpenters do the work | and at a certain point the electrician comes in and does | all his work then the carpenter finish up. The real | secret to getting fully comfortable is doing an | apprenticeship where someone is going over all your work. | spc476 wrote: | Have an architect as a friend? I have such a friend, and | it's always fascinating when talking to him about building | codes and such (such as the type of covering for network | cables in a commercial setting depends upon the type of A/C | used in the building, due to concerns over fire hazards and | air intake). | pjc50 wrote: | > Not that anything about this shed is built to code | | This is why we can't have nice, or at least affordable but | slightly less than perfect, things. I would also note that, | while I'm sure everyone's right about the rules in Santa Cruz, | this is jurisdiction specific. In the UK, if your shed is less | than 15m^2 and is not used as living accomodation, no building | regulations apply, and you can build it with screws, nails, or | corrugated cardboard and PVA glue if you're so inclined. | PragmaticPulp wrote: | > In the UK, if your shed is less than 15m^2 and is not used | as living accomodation, no building regulations apply, and | you can build it with screws, nails, or corrugated cardboard | and PVA glue if you're so inclined. | | In many US locations you aren't required to pull a permit and | get inspections for sheds below a certain square footage | either. | | But that's not a free pass to build an unsafe structure. | Using (non-structural) screws instead of nails is not a big | deal for something this small that won't see snow load, but | other things like mixing high voltage wiring and low-voltage | wiring in the same conduit are a problem regardless of code. | | Connecting something to the electrical system will also | invoke code regulations, regardless of the size. There's no | free pass for ignoring electrical regulations just because a | building is below a certain size in the US, and I doubt there | is in the UK either. | ErrantX wrote: | You can. But some esoteric rules apply, and there are fire | regs if it's close to a building. Oh and electrical regs | apply. | | But yes building in the UK is much freer. | | I sense it is much less common (beyond a basic shed or | conservatory) though therefore less of an issue to solve. | DoreenMichele wrote: | _This is why we can 't have nice, or at least affordable but | slightly less than perfect, things._ | | I really enjoyed reading the article just as someone who | likes writing and reading. It was very engaging and I enjoyed | the process he went through from having an idea to finally | committing to it and I especially liked him commenting on | things like choosing materials that fit in his car. | | I also really am enjoying the comments on HN from | knowledgeable, experienced people who know whereof they speak | and I appreciate your comment because I spent years homeless | and I've studied housing issues and lack of affordable | housing is a root cause of homelessness in the US. | | So this is a real issue and I'm reminded of the fact that | after racist White people burned down "Black Wall Street" | they then began interfering with the rebuilding by trying to | pass more stringent fire safety codes when building codes had | nothing to do with why it burned down. It burned down because | hateful people torched it. | | And I wonder how we solve this. I wonder how we balance all | those concerns of not squelching creative impetus and not | squelching a desire to add something cost effectively with | real world concerns that "If you do it that way, people die | or you burn out your Ethernet card (or whatever)." | | Seems like with the internet being a thing, we could find | ways to balance those many issues. But so far we really | aren't. | | People in the know are often comfortably well off. They have | no problem with saying "Well, pay the few extra bucks to do | it right." and the result is some people are sleeping in the | streets and it falls on deaf ears when you try to draw those | connections. | | It's frustrating. | caslon wrote: | (For anyone who thinks DoreenMichele was being hyperbolic: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre) | PragmaticPulp wrote: | > So this is a real issue and I'm reminded of the fact that | after racist White people burned down "Black Wall Street" | they then began interfering with the rebuilding by trying | to pass more stringent fire safety codes | | This 100% has nothing to do with it. Screws aren't even the | easy, cheap, or fast option for construction. Everyone | defaults to nails anyway because they're the cheap, fast, | easy, and correct option for framing. | | Building a code-compliant small structure is basically | trivial these days. The information is readily available | from so many different sources that you have to ignore them | all and choose to improvise your own thing, such as using | screws instead of framing nails in a framing nailer, to get | things done. | | Many of the code violations in this build are just common | sense problems, like putting high voltage wiring in a pipe | with low-voltage wiring. | | > People in the know are often comfortably well off. They | have no problem with saying "Well, pay the few extra bucks | to do it right." and the result is some people are sleeping | in the streets and it falls on deaf ears when you try to | draw those connections. | | Construction workers are well-versed in building to code. | It's definitely _not_ causing housing shortages or even | remotely related to it. Code isn't causing houses to not be | built, and abolishing building code wouldn't increase the | rate of construction. | | Zoning, on the other hand, is a huge problem. | DoreenMichele wrote: | _Trivial_ for someone in the know can mean "If you have | a PhD and a decade of experience, it's obvious." People | not in the know who look things up online have the | problem that they often cannot properly judge the quality | of the information they are seeing. | | I'm confident that some of the people on HN saying "Oh. | God. Don't do that." Actually know whereof they speak. | Reading the article in no way tripped any warning lights | for me. I just thought it was an enjoyable read for other | reasons. | | This is not the right forum to say that. I said that and | it was downvoted and I deleted that comment to leave the | one above cuz reasons (not due to the downvote per se) | but the downvote helps tell me my enthusiasm for the | writing quality etc is unwelcome here because so many | people here do know it's bad construction. | | I agree zoning is an issue. It's a huge issue, as is car- | centric design. | | But, no, it's not trivial from my perspective but I feel | like it ought to be easier to sort the wheat from the | chaff and so forth. The internet seems like a huge | opportunity to foster better processes for DIY projects. | | But, then, I naively thought nearly two years back that | "Surely, the CDC or WHO will have a list of recommended | OTC meds for self care for Covid to discourage people | from going to the hospital and spreading it." and was | unable to find such. | | I was at one time pursuing an online degree. I have had a | college class in online search. If it existed and I was | unable to find it, I am skeptical that "your average Joe" | could find it. | | I think there is so much potential to do things better | than this. The internet is a tremendous opportunity to | help make effective answers available for "free" to the | masses and we see some of that happening but I remain | shocked and confused by the huge gaps in such that still | remain. | [deleted] | jbluepolarbear wrote: | Was thinking the same thing. Also a nail gum would make putting | that frame together pretty easy. I worked in construction until | I was in my mid 20's and I'm amazed at how uninformed people | are when building sheds and tiny homes. YouTube also spreads a | lot of bad info. | sethev wrote: | While you're not wrong about nails vs screws for framing - this | a 6x6 box, it's not going to matter. | crawshaw wrote: | To support your point: if you are a DIYer who is not super cost | sensitive, for example if you have a tech job, then I highly | recommend structural screws. (I quite like GRK RSS fasteners.) | It requires more research than you might think to find screws | that are properly rated, but it is much more fun to do small | projects with an impact driver than a nail gun or hammer. | [deleted] | cgh wrote: | > You can get structural screws, but they're uncommon, | expensive | | Agreed that eg GRK R4 structural screws are pricey, but they | are widely available. You can buy them at Home Depot, for | example. I do like them better than nails for small projects. | kwhitefoot wrote: | This might be true where you are. It is not universally so. | jopsen wrote: | > Screws are convenient, sure, but they are necessarily much | harder than nails and are prone to embrittlement and | cracking,... | | That sounds like bike-shedding :D | sneak wrote: | It's not, when you are talking about load-bearing framing. | jjeaff wrote: | Ya, it is bike shedding in most cases. I've seen a few side | by side comparisons of nails vs screws for framing and while | it's true that screws are more likely to sheer off, nails are | more likely to pull out. And assuming you used a reasonable | size and quantity of screws, the load required to sheer them | will be so far and above anything required by code that it | becomes a distinction without a difference. | ARandomerDude wrote: | > nails are more likely to pull out | | That's why you toe nail in opposite directions, giving you | the best of both worlds. | fock wrote: | as a dumb european: what are non-structural screws? I've | only ever seen people building their bike-shacks and | terrace stuff, using "Spax". Which are sold as "structural" | screws in the US. Then, if you somehow fix together things | with a classic nut and bolt-screws (from mechanical | engineering): well, for most real things you probably would | think about the force anyway I hope. And then screws are | used in like any industrial machine... | cobookman wrote: | You can get framing screws that bend similar to framing nails. | | As for code, yeah most cities have codes on the hight and | setback of backyard sheds. This shed doesn't look like it meets | either. | | https://www.strongtie.com/strongdrive_exteriorwoodscrews/sdw... | kmonsen wrote: | Does anyone know how zoning restrictions affect this in | California? Wondering at what point you need to get approval to | set up something in your backyard. | fargle wrote: | Check your city/county, but in most places in CA and the rest | of the US, zoning allows up to a 120 square foot shed without | building permits. Neighborhood HOAs, if applicable, would be | the other restriction. | | 36 square feet? good to go. | | If I were to do it, I'd make it slightly bigger and put a | electrical sub-panel in it with an extension cord like an RV | has. You could plug it into anywhere with an RV outlet. | | It's also easy enough to move any shed like this that's 8 feet | wide or less on a car-hauler trailer or with dollys/rollers | underneath. | waynesonfire wrote: | building permit is not a zoning permit. OP may still need to | get a zoning permit. | fargle wrote: | I didn't say they were the same thing. And I meant what I | said: _zoning_ allows a shed without _building_ permits in | most places. It depends on the jurisdiction but because of | _model_ zoning codes the rules are almost all the same | across CA. | | In CA and most of the US there is usually no separate | "zoning permit", although it exists in a few places (I see | berkeley and sonoma county). Usually zoning and the | development and land use codes just say what you're allowed | to do, and are enforced based on helpful neighbor-driven | complaints. But you usually don't need a permit up front | except for things like conditional use and special use | permits, certainly not a shed. For things requiring a | building permit, the permitted use (zoning) is just part of | that process. | | The OP can and should check the city/county and find out. | The point I'm trying to make is there is actually a fairly | high likely hood that even in over-regulated CA you can | build a 120 sq. ft. "shed" or "playhouse" in the backyard | without a _building_ or _zoning_ permit. Without knowing | the exact jurisdiction, this is just general advice about | the _most usual_ practices - for example San Diego, LA, San | Bernardino cities and counties. | | One thing I should mention: technically plumbing/electrical | in the shed or calling it or using it as an "office" might | not be kosher, but in practice everyone does this with no | issue. It's just a very nice "playhouse". | ecopoesis wrote: | No way this shed can be moved. It's built with drywall screws | and 24" centers. If you kick a wall it's likely to flat pack | itself. | hattmall wrote: | Where are you seeing he used drywall screws? I use deck and | construction screws for framing all the time, it's fine. | You can always add nails too. 24" centers are ok for this | too, there's very little weight. Far less well constructed | sheds are moved daily. | fargle wrote: | Many sheds are built this way. Some even lighter - e.g. the | overpriced wood sheds you buy pre-built use very minimal | framing. And they all can be moved just fine. I commented | because it's somewhat surprising how easy it is and how | well it works. | 2ICofafireteam wrote: | Cool. | | For the in-garage option, I've encountered three fully enclosed | and insulated cubicles/offices in garages. | | The first was a construction Project manager who built his along | one side wall of his garage. I was very curious and talked with | them about it and they had a couple good thoughts. The first was | that they had a nice big window opening to the garage. Even it | only gave them a view of their pickup truck, it really made the | office feel less like a closet and could be opened for | ventilation. The other advice was to leave enough room by the | garage door for a repairman to get at everything; on a long | enough timeline it will be necessary. | | The other two were built by tradesmen I knew with single bay | shops. They both built their offices on big casters for | flexibility and one would roll theirs outside when they cleanded | the shop. | hbarka wrote: | Very nice! I like the sliding door idea. Thanks for sharing. | amacneil wrote: | Awesome project! How long did it take total? | | Note that it's against code to run electrical and data cable in | the same conduit, both for safety and interference. Get outdoor | rated cat 6 and leave it out of the conduit instead. | jefftk wrote: | Or run two conduits in parallel | Mizza wrote: | I hate to be a bore, but.. did zoning come into play? I know a | place that had to tear theirs down once the city found out. | psim1 wrote: | In my part of the US, a temporary structure does not require a | permit or zoning allowance, while a permanent structure does. | When we build sheds to meet the "temporary" definition, they | are built on top of cinderblocks and not a poured concrete | foundation. In this case, the author built his shed directly on | top of his patio, so I am curious whether this would be | considered a permanent or temporary installation. | codazoda wrote: | I think this would still be temporary in my area because you | can pick it up and put it on a flatbread trailer. The wiring | might change that. | | I think there are still lots of rules to follow. | robotresearcher wrote: | Bonus points for the temporary trailer. | rzzzt wrote: | The question is how many flatbreads you need for building | one. | davidw wrote: | This is from California which is, uh, not known for a light | regulatory touch in things like permits or zoning. | dekhn wrote: | CA has been lightening up about ADUs, it's typically not | hard to put one in. There were a few legal changes in 2020, | allowing larger sizes, less planning oversight, less | parking requirements, utility hookups can be shared with | the primary building. | | The permits are pretty easy to get. | pkaye wrote: | I live in SF bay area and I can build a accessory structure | of 150SF or smaller without a permit. | beamatronic wrote: | In Santa Cruz it is illegal to insulate your garage, lest | it become housing. | Fraaaank wrote: | Looks cool! What would worry me is that you're displaying a | screen and (presumably) a computer in front of a large window | outside of your house. Of course I don't know what the rest of | the property looks like, but from the pictures it looks perfect | for burglars. | Synaesthesia wrote: | Are you from South Africa by any chance? | nkrisc wrote: | He mentioned blackout curtains so perhaps he can at least | obscure what's inside when he locks up for the night. | | But assuming it's a fenced in yard in the US, if someone is | already in there when they shouldn't be they're already quite | committed to mischief anyway. | fragmede wrote: | My interpretation is that the fence behind the shed is the | street, so the glass doors on the shed faces other houses. | Other houses which can probably already see TV/etc in the | presumably glass-doored living room that faces the same | direction if they were to look. | [deleted] | [deleted] | IgorPartola wrote: | I am planning on building what is essentially a tiny house for my | shoffice. Basically I want something that also includes a bed and | a shower/bathroom. My biggest concern is whether I will need to | pull permits for this project and/or if I need a foundation or if | I can get away with a gravel pad + railroad ties as the base. | Tying into house plumbing and power is going to be the trick I | guess. | alistairSH wrote: | At minimum, you should swing by (virtually these days, but in | past years, you could go in person) your local building | enforcement office. I suspect that as soon as you add | electrical or plumbing, you need permits and inspections, as | it's no longer a shed. | 2ICofafireteam wrote: | Some bylaw research is always in order because it can get | sticky. | | Where I happen to be, I can build what I like without a permit | as long as it's under 100 sq ft, doesn't tie in to plumbing or | electrical, isn't in lot setback areas, and it doesn't push the | lot coverage over the limit _but_ if I were to park a trailer | on the property for any other reason than to store it, I 'm in | trouble. | | Never assume. I knew someone in the situation of being on a | road that was a zone boundary. Research revealed they couldn't | do what they wanted just because the guy across the street was | doing it too. | | Another angle to look into: Have you considered just buying a | travel trailer or pre-built shed to use as an office? More than | once I have personally fallen into the trap of spending $100 in | materials and $1000 of my time to avoid a $500 expense when my | time would have been better spent getting back to work to pay | for a bought solution. | IgorPartola wrote: | I definitely am considering getting a camper as well. That | seems like a more straightforward solution, just potentially | a more expensive one in the long run. | | I'll definitely do my research and see what I can come up | with. | jefftk wrote: | I think it's very likely that the OP was supposed to pull a | permit and get zoning permission, but if you are going to be | including plumbing and sleeping, you almost certainly need to. | [deleted] | drodio wrote: | I'm such a fan of this. Nicely done! I opted for a $3k Costco | shed and went off grid with it even though it's in my back yard: | https://drodio.com/going-all-in-on-an-off-grid-workspace/ | | Off grid = No need for a permit but more importantly, a proof of | concept that with starlink, this small office "shedquarters" | could be placed anywhere in the world -- say a beach in Costa | Rica for example! | jacquesm wrote: | Imagine if all the nerds that could afford it set up their | shacks on the beach in Costa Rica. Instant slum. I prefer the | beach without such structures. | drodio wrote: | Replace "beach in Costa Rica" with any remote (or not) global | location of your choice, which is the point. | | We're 1 year away from a low latency, gigabit speed | "shedquarters" workspace being available anywhere in the | world for under $10k. | spiderice wrote: | Looks awesome. I'd love something like that in my backyard. | Only wish the write-up was longer! | drodio wrote: | The longer original shed writeup is here: | https://drodio.com/creating-your-own-remote-workspace-for- | un... | jefftk wrote: | Being off-grid wouldn't normally get you around building code; | where are you that it does? | drodio wrote: | San Mateo: under 120 sq ft; no electrical. | jbluepolarbear wrote: | Was the fast internet stuff worth it? I have a google mesh | router in my garage about 20' from my house and I get ~180mbs | out there. | drodio wrote: | I'm using Ruckus setup which is bulletproof inside the house | but wasn't consistent in the shed, so yes, worth it | anotherevan wrote: | "Starlink works great until the cats find out that the dish | gives off a little heat on cold days." | | https://twitter.com/Tippen22/status/1476985855981993984 | aosaigh wrote: | This is great to see. Very nicely documented project and a | fantastic result. Encouraging to see people with little past | experience doing projects like this. I'm in the process of | planning a self-build cabin in the woods, so also diving into | YouTube to learn all of the requisite skills. | heyrhett wrote: | Seymour Cray would dig tunnels | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Cray#Personal_life | [deleted] | rectang wrote: | There is so much involved with building structures, even | something like a shed. Sheesh. | | I always figured that if I wanted to do a serious project like | this, I would first do some volunteer work, maybe with Habitat | for Humanity or similar, just to gain some experience. | | Does anybody have stories about noobs volunteering to help with | construction? | ErrantX wrote: | I did this too! | | It genuinely is not that hard. I did spend most time working out | the right spec (ie safety, structural etc.) and the main build | took me about 2 months. I was in by month 3 and fully finished by | 4 months. | | I am ok with big structural stuff, interior (drywalling for | example) I don't have the finesse for, but it looks OK. | | I love DIY, it gets me off a keyboard! And scratches the | engineering itch I miss as a people leader. | | It's not hard though. Like anything it takes a bit of planning | and practice. Plus the confidence to have a go. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-01-02 23:00 UTC)