[HN Gopher] When WikiLeaks bumped into the CIA: Operation Kudo e...
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When WikiLeaks bumped into the CIA: Operation Kudo exposed [video]
Author : HelenePhisher
Score : 107 points
Date : 2022-01-03 16:51 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (media.ccc.de)
(TXT) w3m dump (media.ccc.de)
| pphysch wrote:
| Were those guys in the car likely to be card-carrying CIA
| operatives or just hired thugs given orders from the CIA/MI6?
| londons_explore wrote:
| I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't just some private
| detective paid just over minimum wage to sit there for multiple
| years and radio in if anything happens.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > card-carrying CIA operatives
|
| I realize you're just using that as an expression, but I
| recently watched an old Columbo episode [1] that featured _just
| that_ , and if it were true it would be the literal _dumbest
| thing_.
|
| [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072804/
| pphysch wrote:
| I agree, but certainly not beyond the capabilities of a CIA
| headed by the brilliant and successful Mike Pompeo. :)
| marktucker wrote:
| Posted last week here:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29723433
|
| TL;DW Guy thinks information should be free. Thinks an informed
| society is important. Thinks journalistic freedom is necessary
| for that. Thinks Julian Assange should be free.
|
| Video is about the circumstances around the foiling of the plot
| to get Julian Assange out of the country by means of becoming an
| Ecuador diplomat. There was a meeting between JA and an
| Ecuadorian diplomat during the final stages of the plan (end of
| 2017 I think). This was high priority for US intelligence. One
| company inspected the fire extinguishers just before the meeting.
| The fire extinguisher was later found to be bugged. Each day
| around the time of the meeting there was a Ford Focus or a police
| car parked in front of the building allegedly collecting signals
| from the bugs and being ready to rock if necessary (often there
| were multiple dudes in the car, once 8 cups of coffee were
| brought to a police car). High quality surveillance of one such
| car reveals a dude holding case notes mentioning what to do in
| case the video surveillance goes out and JA tries to leave the
| building, including shooting out tires. Mentions operation kudo
| (meaning has something to do with "friend"), which the presenter
| suspects to be a joint operation between the CIA and the London
| metropolitan police since it used MS7 (something like that) and
| MET acronyms. This would all be very much a breach of
| inviolability of diplomatic missions from Vienna convention.
| Lawsuits are underway apparently. In the end Ecuador gave up on
| this plan due to diplomatic pressure from US.
|
| Presenter was himself surveilled on behalf of the CIA but things
| have calmed down since a yahoo news article last year described
| some of the circumstances above, though he said it was also
| filled with some misinformation.
|
| Might not be 100% accurate. I was distracted.
| unbanned wrote:
| >Might not be 100% accurate. I was distracted.
|
| Next time give a precis with your whole attention. Or are you
| giving this disclaimer knowing full well you devoted your
| entire regard hoping someone would see this thinking, "wow they
| must be clever if they gave such an accurate report when
| preoccupied with something else!"
|
| Sigh.
| m348e912 wrote:
| I find your comment rather flippant. How about you provide a
| full, undistracted summary.
| unbanned wrote:
| I'm not clever enough!
| traceroute66 wrote:
| > including shooting out tires
|
| Thank you for posting the TL;DR @marktucker. It saves everyone
| watching a video that is no doubt full of pure invented FUD and
| BS.
|
| Why do I say that ? Because of the "shooting out tires" bit.
|
| 1. Its a dumb American thing, no way in hell it would be
| permitted in the UK .. actually no, to give the yanks their
| due, I don't event think they would start shooting at tyres
| randomly on a public street. ;-)
|
| 2. Ecuadorian Embassy is in Hans Place, Knightsbridge. Anyone
| who has ever lived or worked in London will very quickly tell
| you that (a) Shooting at tyres in that neck of the wood is
| likely to result in far too many casualties and collateral
| damage to very expensive assets (b) There is unlikely to be a
| need to do so because there is both heavy police presence in
| that neck of the woods _AND_ a lot of vehicular traffic (i.e.
| no chance for a fast car getaway, you 'll end up stuck in
| traffic sooner or later).
| nozzlegear wrote:
| > _This would all be very much a breach of inviolability of
| diplomatic missions from Vienna convention. Lawsuits are
| underway apparently._
|
| I don't quite understand, are the CIA and London police not
| allowed to work together? I figured the CIA (and the equivalent
| in other countries) would often work with other powers.
|
| Edit: oops, I think I misunderstood. It would be a breach for
| them to interfere with the embassy, not for them to work
| together.
| thombat wrote:
| Seems a little overcooked: to be accredited as a diplomat
| requires the host country's assent. So Ecuador can't simply say
| "Mr Assange is our diplomat so you must give him free passage";
| the UK govt can simply reject the proposed appointment.
|
| As for shooting out the tyres, before contemplating such a
| reckless and dramatic Michael Bay violation of diplomatic
| protocol, public safety, and common sense, surely a simpler and
| well practiced technique like blocking the road, boxing in the
| car underway with some police vehicles, or simply intercepting
| it at the airport would be preferred?
| sennight wrote:
| > As for shooting out the tyres...
|
| This comes up every so often with regard to high speed
| chases: "Why not just let him go and then make the arrest
| after things have calmed down? We know where he lives." The
| answer to that question is very simple: you are operation
| under the premise that you can accurately predict your
| target's future actions. You cannot, and it is laughably
| foolish to think otherwise. This is why, in the US military
| at least, the prevention of prisoner escape is a
| justification for deadly force regardless of the reason for
| imprisonment - mind reading isn't even attempted.
|
| So with that in mind, do you still think you know enough
| about Assange's state of mind (and the minds of an unknown
| number of unknown confederates) to accurately predict what he
| would do? Because he might have no intention of making a
| predictably foolish b-line for an exit point, he might be
| happy to momentarily break surveillance and lay low in a
| warehouse while his lawnchair weather balloon is readied.
|
| That said, Assange has been horribly mistreated and his
| tormentors will never have to answer to it.
| traceroute66 wrote:
| > US military at least, the prevention of prisoner escape
| is a justification for deadly force regardless of the
| reason for imprisonment
|
| Well, the world is aware that the US tends to have a "shoot
| first, ask later" policy.
|
| Meanwhile, time for your regular reminder that in the UK
| policing operates on a consent basis. Overall this basis
| has served the UK well for the last few hundred years.
|
| Even Tasers are classed as a weapon requiring specific
| training prior to issue.
|
| So, for example in London there are about 40,000 officers,
| only about 7,000 of them are issued with tasers, even fewer
| of them get to walk around with pistols, and even fewer of
| them get to drive around in cars with semi-automatics in
| the boot.
|
| Use of a weapon is taken seriously, if an officer
| discharges in public, it results in instant referral to the
| IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission) for
| independent investigation. This is not with a view of
| punishing the officer (unless they did wrong, obviously),
| but with the view of reviewing processes and procedures and
| whether use of the weapon could have been avoided (or
| indeed done better).
|
| I'll take UK policing over US policing any day of the week.
| sennight wrote:
| > Well, the world is aware that the US tends to have a
| "shoot first, ask later" policy.
|
| The larger point that you seem to have missed being that
| the US military doesn't do anything without a logical or
| historical justification (barring cases involving
| immediate political pressure). They've either thoroughly
| thought it through or there are a lot of bodies behind
| the silliest of rules. Why do they insist on putting the
| non-dominant hand flat on top of the grenade spoon before
| pulling the pin? I dunno, but I'm sure a bunch of people
| died not doing it.
|
| > I'll take UK policing over US policing any day of the
| week.
|
| I'm sure you would, at this moment. But we'll see if that
| holds given the direction of the trendlines. It is always
| funny to me when people compare culturally homogenous
| countries to the US. There is a reason why Japan has such
| a low crime rate - and it isn't due to gun control.
|
| In any case, it is silly to pretend that the UK isn't
| dancing to the tune of the US in this case - so pointing
| to anything the UK may do better is doubly silly.
| PradeetPatel wrote:
| >...his tormentors will never have to answer to it.
|
| Why the defeatist attitude? It has been established that
| the truth will eventually surface with sufficient
| education, public awareness and time. When the truth is
| out, justice will follow. The world does not operate on a
| "might is right" model.
| sennight wrote:
| Addressing this feels like how I imagine it would feel to
| drop a cinderblock on a box of kittens...
|
| > It has been established that the truth will eventually
| surface with sufficient education, public awareness and
| time.
|
| Not really, but even in the case where it might be
| partially true - it would definitely be a non-linear
| function of time. By that I mean the immediate dispersion
| of true information would be zero, the mid-point would be
| the max, and then there would be a long tail of
| disinformation. The winners write the history, and the
| historians present the stories based on some criteria -
| and you can be sure that it isn't objective. Have you
| ever noticed the way that philosophical teachings, the
| ones going back thousands of years, all promote some kind
| of social stratification that favors a ruling class?
| Plato's Republic being an easy example. Ever wonder why?
| Hint: it isn't because it reflects some emergent quality
| of the human condition.
|
| > The world does not operate on a "might is right" model.
|
| Unfortunately it absolutely does, or at least has -
| forever. I'm pretty confident this is the reason why the
| common theme for religion is the concept of balancing
| force that is dependent on faith alone. A universal
| karma, an afterlife. If justice were the rule of the day
| then these things wouldn't be needed.
|
| The only thing I see potentially changing any of this is
| solidly rooted in the cryptoanarchy sphere - because
| misrepresented math simply doesn't function, halting the
| propagation of corrupting influence in a way no other
| system can.
| Cpoll wrote:
| > The world does not operate on a "might is right" model.
|
| I'd hate to be the cynic in the room, but the actions of
| various powerful countries has show the opposite.
|
| In general, it seems like if the truth does surface, it's
| met with general ambivalence and nothing much happens to
| anyone involved. I'll cop out on concrete examples and
| just say that I find them too numerous and depressing.
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