[HN Gopher] The UX on This Small Child Is Terrible
___________________________________________________________________
The UX on This Small Child Is Terrible
Author : gumby
Score : 228 points
Date : 2022-01-04 19:10 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.mcsweeneys.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.mcsweeneys.net)
| blakesterz wrote:
| McSweeney's is one of those rare gems that's been going forever
| and is still great. I started my first site in 99 and still
| remember taking some inspiration from McSweeney's. Though I
| wanted to be Slashdot mostly.
| awb wrote:
| Just wait until the automatic over-the-air updates kick in and
| the Small Child becomes Teenage Child without your consent.
|
| All your favorite Small Child features are now buried 5-layers
| deep under confusing menus that are apparently different on each
| version.
|
| I found it under:
|
| Late Night -> Food -> Sugary Foods -> Milkshakes -> Make Your Own
| -> Enable Small Child Fun Mode
| selimthegrim wrote:
| It is the hamburger menu still I take it.
| theunraveler wrote:
| Another case of technical debt resulting in therapy?
| rprenger wrote:
| Has anyone figured out how to enable "stay sitting on chair
| during meal"? StackOverflow has totally failed me here.
| encoderer wrote:
| As a parent, you're not the user, you're the developer.
| akeck wrote:
| Another McSweeney's article I love:
|
| "MEET OLIVIA! THE COVID-19-ERA AMERICAN GIRL DOLL"
|
| https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/meet-olivia-the-covid-19...
|
| Almost too close to the eventual truth.
| civilized wrote:
| Is this... humor...?
|
| Apropos that this has just grabbed HN's top spot
| https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/04/briefing/american-childre...
| cookie_monsta wrote:
| I have a slightly ageing model (my co-developer is adamant there
| will be no upgrades, please do not suggest) and my problem is
| that it appears to have defaulted to ICT time (we are at GMT
| +11). I hear it performing operations well into the early
| morning, but booting from a cold start any earlier than 9am leads
| to all sorts of unexpected behaviour and system errors.
| prosody wrote:
| This makes me wonder about the opposite--taking cues from humans'
| instinctual child-rearing behavior in product design. Not being a
| parent though that thought started and ended with using infant
| crying sounds for emergency notifications, which would probably
| just disturb most people. Does anyone with experience have ideas?
| gumby wrote:
| Sending the product manager out for a timeout is unlikely to
| produce a positive change in behavior.
| coldcode wrote:
| This small child has a better UX than many things I have been
| forced to implement. At least as it iterates, improvements occur
| that make the UX better and provide a more pleasant experience.
| technothrasher wrote:
| "At least as it iterates, improvements occur that make the UX
| better and provide a more pleasant experience."
|
| Certainly more interesting features get activated. But at least
| with my model, the error reporting got a lot more complicated
| and the input acceptance rate dropped considerably around the
| time the product turned 15 years old.
| chrisfinazzo wrote:
| Humans get upgrades for free. With Dogs, you apply the patches
| yourself.*
|
| Cats? Fuck that, those assholes don't need you.
|
| * Results not guaranteed, past performance is no indication of
| future results. Please read the instruction manual for all
| possible upgrade scenarios.**
|
| ** You believed that shit? Actually, we lied, there are no
| instructions and everyone is just improvising all the time!
|
| (Evil laughter)
|
| I'll just be over here in a corner trying not to cry...
| classified wrote:
| Maybe due to Agile management?
| testplzignore wrote:
| You told the developers they had to deliver on time and they did
| - maybe even earlier than the original estimate. This is what you
| get with death march product development.
|
| And then you have the nerve to complain when the developers try
| to unionize? You should be lucky that they tolerate your crap -
| you need them more than they need you.
| mwattsun wrote:
| Someday my software might love me the way my children did when
| they were small
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| Think that's bad. Try UX of adults.
| annoyingnoob wrote:
| I do not recommend VMs or Containers, Small Child requires direct
| hardware access.
| rektide wrote:
| BF Skinner's Air Crib might qualify as a containerizing
| solution.
| https://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/skinner-air-cr...
| themadturk wrote:
| Containerization is actually a valid strategy to help induce
| the sleep states necessary for both parent and child process
| functionality, especially since prolonged operations outside
| the containerized environment may result in the parent
| process(es) not passing even the simplest sanity testing.
| lowbloodsugar wrote:
| Also remote monitoring as available.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| The antivirus isn't great, either. This is a critical issue,
| because the networking process inevitably results in numerous
| breaches which frequently affect other stakeholder systems. Those
| networking operations critical to a successful eventual
| deployment of the small child, but the number of bugs experienced
| is simply inconceivable to users accustomed to good security
| hygiene.
| samwillis wrote:
| The trouble we find is our v2 model, which we had hoped could
| have made improvements over v1, frequents the same unsavoury
| places that v1 did initially and continues to be compromised by
| the same vulnerabilities. It seems later versions are destined
| to make the same mistakes again. The only comfort though is
| that you have become accustomed to how to address the bug
| reports when they are filed.
|
| Fortunately our V2 has also reached the point where we have
| been able to retire our bug reporting and pager setup as it now
| has its own implementation of this functionality. Although
| sometimes the reports are less than ideal, such as this evening
| what it filed a bug report, very loudly, 30 Min after going to
| bed that it was wearing the wrong pyjamas and the correct ones
| being it's Toy Story pyjamas, which were in the wash...
| icambron wrote:
| The maintenance of several products in different lifecycle
| phases is a huge issue for us. Different failure modes,
| different protocols for providing feedback, and different
| basic maintenance needs. For example, v1 requires the users
| to manage reading homework, the v2 requires bedtime stories,
| v3 requires diaper changes and milk, all simultaneously. This
| adds a lot of operational complexity for our already
| overwhelmed team, since they have to triage several different
| issue streams and context switch between them.
| kimburgess wrote:
| At least you're working with versioned releases. I've
| recently acquired a new model and it's definitely still in
| beta. There's no documentation, conflicting user training
| and undefined behaviours everywhere. As soon as you
| discover workflows that meet your needs there appears to be
| a background update that while introducing new features,
| completely changes the behaviour of previous ones.
|
| Oh and don't get me started on the sleep mode, it's more
| unreliable that a Linux laptop and plays this horrible wake
| sound with no clear way to disable it. From what I've read
| on support forums this is happening to other users too.
| samwillis wrote:
| We were concerned about trying to manage more than two of
| these products at once and so, as the Assistant to the VP
| of Reproduction, have made certain permanent operational
| changes the the equipment to ensure no further acquisitions
| are possible.
| CapitalistCartr wrote:
| The things children are born not knowing is crazy. The pre-
| programming is _limited_! You have to teach them how to blow
| their nose.
|
| "Don't eat your boogers."
|
| Holds finger out to me. I wipe it off.
|
| "Don't pick your nose, blow it instead. No, don't pick my nose
| either."
| igetspam wrote:
| I've been working on the inputs to mine for over four years now
| and it still hasn't picked up "blow nose!"
| colmvp wrote:
| Strange, I would've expected blowNose() would be inherited
| from the parent.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| Is there any reason beyond social standards that you shouldn't
| you eat your boogers, or pick your nose? And of course children
| wouldn't be pre-programmed for social standards, because you
| don't know what region they are going to be provisioned in.
| bell-cot wrote:
| If (say) you're starving to death in Donner Pass, then go
| ahead. Similar for drinking your urine - _if_ at sea in
| lifeboat and dying for lack of non-salty water. Otherwise,
| violations of "eww, ick" social standards tend to be
| punished harshly.
|
| It seemed _really_ weird for a few years, when conspicuously
| talking to yourself went from being a "this person has a
| serious mental illness" indicator, to being a "this person
| has a cell phone" indicator.
| CapitalistCartr wrote:
| I'd estimate the majority of what I teach my son is cultural
| norms.
|
| "No, there's no good reason you have to do it this way, but
| you do."
|
| I don't actually say that to him (he's 3), but I say it to
| myself a lot. And the "Don't pick my nose, either" isn't a
| joke, that's verbatim.
| sanderjd wrote:
| I think it is accurate to say things that boil down to
| "other people will expect you to {xyz thing}", which is not
| "no good reason".
| fouc wrote:
| I guess the main reason is that picking nose leaves the
| finger covered with mucus, and the risk is that the mucus
| could be spread around - potentially passing on germs.
|
| I suppose if people used hand sanitizer after every nose
| picking, then maybe it be less of a problem?
| fennecfoxen wrote:
| Rhinotillexis and mucophagy may help expose the immune system
| to weakened versions of pathogens. Depending on how well you
| clean your hands before and after, however, it may introduce
| new things into the nose, or introduce things in your nose to
| the people you shake hands with. There is also a minor risk
| of injury, mostly nosebleed.
| netizen-936824 wrote:
| Just wanted to say that this sort of interaction is
| important. I'm glad people question what they're taught and
| I'm glad that you have responded with a reasonable answer
| that explains the why behind this social norm. I think the
| reasoning behind social norms are really important to
| understand. Not only because they might help reinforce a
| positive behavior, but we might also come up with a better
| solution when we discuss it.
|
| Its possible that nose picking and similar behaviors by
| kids are important for helping build the immune system.
| sanderjd wrote:
| Yes, I think if you washed your hands immediately afterward
| every single time, that it would be totally fine (from a
| first principles standpoint).
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Reminds me of this old Onion story:
| http://vaviper.blogspot.com/2019/06/from-onion-study-reveals...
|
| Sorry about the copy link, but it seems that The Onion has
| removed the original story.
| reaperducer wrote:
| Mousing over that link shows the URL is "Study reveals babies
| are HTML."
|
| I guess that explains a lot.
| dylan604 wrote:
| >The things children are born not knowing is crazy. The pre-
| programming is limited!
|
| You purchased the DIY version. With this version, you are
| expected to continuously update the programming. Most people
| seem to focus on higher level programming using a language of
| "ivy league".
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| I'm led to understand that the "Ivy League" tier is in fact
| not that popular due to the exorbitant subscription fees.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Right, people may focus on "ivy league" as it is the "it"
| option, but most people have to settle for "state college"
| which is much more widely available. however, subscription
| fees for this option have steadily been increasing as well.
|
| Either way, you are expected to keep the programming
| updated at your expense. Without it, your Small Child unit
| might fall behind other versions and become a negative
| influence on other Small Child units.
| jannyfer wrote:
| Hang on, genuine question - do some people consider blowing
| their nose vs. picking their nose to be an all-or-nothing
| choice?
|
| If it's dry, I can't blow my nose... Unless there is some
| method I am not aware of.
| technothrasher wrote:
| I think the lesson learned is really, "don't let people _see_
| you picking your nose because... reasons "
| titanomachy wrote:
| File this under "things to re-learn as we emerge from covid
| and start spending more time in public".
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| > The things children are born not knowing is crazy. The pre-
| programming is _limited_!
|
| The one that blew my mind was, when you're out in the yard,
| playing with the running hose, and you decide to come inside
| for something, _don 't bring the running hose with you_! Turns
| out kids don't automatically know that.
| deanCommie wrote:
| Honestly, I'm loving this process because you discover so many
| situations where the answer is "Why not? Uhhh shit, I don't
| know, actually. You're right, this is stupid. Why does everyone
| do it this way?"
|
| Mine is 2, so most of the situations so far are just about
| English rules. (Though every language has stupid
| inconsistencies)
|
| But there are many things like this in the world. I'm looking
| forward/dreading trying to balance "OK, from first principles,
| you're right. But in order to exist in society, you need to do
| something differently. It's important to recognize when you
| need to try to fit in. And also important to recognize when
| it's worth breaking those rules. And even if you choose not to
| break them, you should be aware of the underlying purpose or
| lack thereof"
|
| I think it's an impossible task. My kid is going to hate it.
| I'll do my best.
| sanderjd wrote:
| I really love the experience of trying really hard to answer
| every question as accurately and honestly as possible.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| Too bad he didn't have identical twins: then he could perform A/B
| testing.
| layer8 wrote:
| At least it doesn't show ads.
| munificent wrote:
| My two are basically constantly broadcasting detailed audio ads
| for Minecraft and Roblox.
| kazinator wrote:
| Rule of thumb: when the UX is that horrible, you're wrong in your
| assumption abut who the user is: that it is _you_.
| mmettler wrote:
| I would like to submit some feedback on the teething process.
| plaidfuji wrote:
| How do I get new features added to the roadmap? I've been asking
| for an "eat vegetables" interface without the "offer dessert in
| exchange" workaround for over a year, no response, yet in the
| same time frame I've seen things like "climb top-heavy bookshelf"
| and "unfurl entire toilet paper roll" deployed... who is asking
| for these features??
| cpursley wrote:
| Can somebody explain the "won't eat vegetables" thing? The only
| place I've heard about this being in issue is in America.
| coldtea wrote:
| If everything is saturated with salt/sugar/artificial
| ehnahced flavors/refined everything/fried/etc with "instant
| hook"-overcranked-at-11 taste, and it's all targeting the
| lowest common denominator palette, good luck then trying to
| teach a person to appreciate tomoatoes, brocolli, asparagus,
| mushrooms, cheeses, and so on...
| stavros wrote:
| This is a very good summary of my culinary experience
| visiting the US. This is not to say that good restaurants
| don't exist, it's just that cheap/everyday restaurants had
| everything cranked up to 11. The Cheesecake Factory menu
| was basically butter and sugar in different ratios.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| Sugar/bread is easier.
|
| We solve this by having a tiered eating system that starts
| with some salad or veggies, if they don't eat, they clearly
| aren't deathly hungry; dessert is available at the end of the
| meal if they finish.
|
| Note this may require a family eating culture that includes
| salad et al. With every dinner, which is not the norm in
| America.
| cpursley wrote:
| I wonder if it's also the preparation method. Steamed
| veggies are of course not appealing vs ones flash fried in
| a little oil/butter plus salt.
| vlunkr wrote:
| I think preparation is a big part. If you offer a kid
| pizza and some cold broccoli together then yeah, they'll
| skip the broccoli.
| mattlondon wrote:
| Generally speaking, added salt is something you need to
| avoid with young kids. Likewise for saturated fats.
|
| https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/weaning-and-
| feeding/foods...
| mdavis6890 wrote:
| Regarding salt, From the link, "babies" is different than
| kids. I doubt salt is going to hurt anyone older except
| in specific cases like heart disease or something.
|
| I don't buy the saturated fats thing either, except to
| the extent that they are a source of calories. If you
| have links to some studies that indicate negative
| outcomes vs the same caloric intake from other sources I
| am willing to read them.
| mdavis6890 wrote:
| I figured out the flash fry thing just last year. Game
| changer, for me as well as the kids. So yummy. Be careful
| with that hot oil though! The most dangerous thing in the
| kitchen afaikt.
| gumby wrote:
| Steamed is how I like them the best, FWIW.
| amock wrote:
| My experience with little kids is that steamed vegetables
| are the most appealing, they just need to be offered
| before sweets. Things fried in grease or with salt added
| seem to be something that becomes much more appealing
| later.
| [deleted]
| reaperducer wrote:
| _Can somebody explain the "won't eat vegetables" thing? The
| only place I've heard about this being a problem is in
| America._
|
| And yet I've seen it on TV shows in both the U.K., and
| Australia.
| cameldrv wrote:
| I've heard some speculation that this can be related to
| breast vs. formula feeding. If the mom eats a lot of
| vegetables, some of the tastes will come out in the milk and
| get the baby accustomed to those tastes.
| mithr wrote:
| This is highly unlikely, similarly to claims that eating
| cruciferous vegetables will lead to gassy breast-fed
| babies. Breast milk isn't the distilled contents of the
| parent's stomach. In contrast, alcohol (for example) is a
| problem because it affects the parent's _bloodstream_ , not
| because it fills their stomach.
| enaaem wrote:
| I find that many western households don't know how to cook
| vegetables. Often mushy and overcooked. I as an adult don't
| enjoy eating that either.
| mattlondon wrote:
| My kid (~2 years) prefers to eat food they like the taste of
| most.
|
| Turns out that they prefer the sweet tastes of biscuits and
| even bananas etc to broccoli and carrots.
|
| They'll whinge and whine about being hungry, so you offer
| them some peas or avocado or something and they will
| literally push it out of the way, look you straight in the
| eye, and tell you about how hungry they are (...but not
| hungry enough to eat the veggies in front of them!). Offer
| them crisps or biscuits or even just fruity-yoghurt and
| they'll scoff it down super-fast because presumably it tastes
| nicer.
|
| Can't blame them really.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| So do they not class carrots as sweet at all? Is this
| related to kids hating olives at all?
| [deleted]
| dylan604 wrote:
| >who is asking for these features??
|
| The project managers have had a look at some of the competing
| products, and felt that matching features would be more
| competitive vs fixing existing bugs.
| sophacles wrote:
| Yeah, but look at puppy for example - it just eats what you
| give it. (If anything, the makers of that product should
| introduce a bit of pickiness tbh). The small child makers
| should really take an example from puppy - AI is a nice way
| to get some behaviors trained up, but over-doing it (e.g. in
| the "what to eat" module) can be just as bad as not enough
| (compare brine shrimp for the problems of a no AI approach).
| dylan604 wrote:
| Sorry, you're blaming someone else for the decision on
| chosing Small Child vs Cute Loveable Puppy? Buyer's remorse
| is strong. You should have researched the return options
| before purchase. However, adding Cute Loveable Puppy can
| sometimes improve Small Child, or just add to headache.
| na85 wrote:
| Puppy also happily rolls in excrement if you don't run the
| Leash plugin.
|
| I have the 2017 Small Child Pro and mine tried to eat a
| cigarette butt that she found in a mid puddle but at least
| she doesn't roll in goose shit.
| titusblair wrote:
| LOL!!
| xwdv wrote:
| Food should never be a reward to a child. Offer something else.
| dvaun wrote:
| We put everything on a plate and offer it to the child(ren).
| Then, if they become hungry later on, they can return to said
| plate and continue eating.
|
| Dessert is considered "equal", so we place it on their plate.
| However, that also means that they can't raid the pantry for
| snacks afterward.
|
| It seems to be working. Our oldest ate celery and peanut butter
| the other day, which is pretty unexpected to us.
| gumby wrote:
| In the US most peanut butters include added sugar so your kid
| may have hacked your system.
| munificent wrote:
| Shout-out to Adams peanut butter which is delicious and has
| zero sugar.
| hathawsh wrote:
| Some Adams trivia:
|
| - It's owned by Smucker's. I normally dislike anything
| from Smucker's, but Adams is a nice exception.
|
| - If you get the giant jar from Costco, the oil
| separation is a significant issue. There's a simple
| solution: dump it all into a big mixing bowl (with the
| help of a silicone spatula), mix it, and pour it back
| into the jar. I did it last time I bought it and it was
| worth the 10 minutes I spent.
|
| - Once it's mixed well, if you give it a quick stir every
| time you use it, the oil doesn't separate again.
| jokethrowaway wrote:
| Talking by experience, my kids would just eat dessert and cry
| later that they want more dessert.
|
| I went in the opposite direction. I put a small portion of
| meat on the dish. When it's over, I put some vegetables;
| rinse and repeat until the portion of food is assimilated.
|
| It seems like giving small goals is helping with going
| through the entire dinner and not having a choice minimises
| building up dislike for a specific food.
|
| I think the reasoning for the second phenomenon is something
| like:
|
| 1. I can eat potatoes or chicken. 2. I like potatoes. 3. I'll
| eat potatoes. 4. Remember that dislikeChicken++ 4. Go back to
| 1 until I'm full
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| > unfurl entire toilet paper roll
|
| That reminds me of one ours pulling the film out of three 35mm
| film canisters.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| I can't remember the last time I needed a postage stamp, but
| I have a strong memory of my then 3 year-old proudly showing
| the book he had decorated with the roll of "stickers" he
| found!
| account-5 wrote:
| Someone deployed the "public punch in the balls and run off
| laughing" feature on mine. I can even get rid of it, I was told
| I needed to keep it longer than 4 years. The "throw trantum
| when not allowed to eat broken glass" feature is really
| annoying.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _I've been asking for an "eat vegetables" interface without
| the "offer dessert in exchange" workaround_
|
| Perhaps "not eating vegetables" shouldn't have been presented
| as an option, but instead "we eat what is on offer today, there
| is no special menu".
|
| More often than not, it's spoiling the kid with sweets, pizza,
| or perhaps just cooking their favorite dishes on demand every
| time (as opposed to as a love gesture once in a while), that
| prevents them from enjoying and appreciating a wider range of
| food.
|
| Once somebody has been hooked on the quick-fix of a burger, for
| example, it's difficult to learn to appreciate the deeper
| textures, tastes, etc. of vegetables and other more refined
| recipes.
| titusblair wrote:
| Hilarious!
| christophilus wrote:
| The NLP in mine seems to be totally broken. It thinks "Stop
| throwing your food on the floor!" Means "Please, do that on
| loop." Also, it supposedly has the advanced AI capabilities, but
| its driving is way worse than Tesla Autopilot.
| eitland wrote:
| As someone who's gone through this five times (ok, going through
| it for the fifth):
|
| My experience has been that once I understood it it became very
| simple, but learning it was hard since none of the documentation
| is complete and it often only covers the small child that the
| author of said document had.
|
| One piece of very practical advice that I picked up from some
| docs somewhere though:
|
| For some reason adults easily understand that kids needs to learn
| to eat, learn to walk and learn to speak and later write.
|
| For some reason however many of us think that kids just should
| know how to sleep.
|
| Most kids however doesn't know how to get a good nights sleep
| however.
|
| Some general advice in that regard:
|
| - Don't let kids over a year fall asleep with anything they
| cannot keep during the night (food, parents by their side, music,
| film etc.) We all wake up about once an hour to see that things
| are still OK. This is good thing. For small kids this check seems
| to be mostly that things are exactly as they were when they fell
| asleep. Not knowing about this mechanism can drive a good hearted
| parent mad since they'll go to extreme lengths to make sure their
| kids are happy - including waking up once an hour to help the kid
| fall asleep again. (Case in point: I did this for months until I
| realized my kid woke up once an hour because she always fell
| asleep with a bottle of milk and consequently woke up once an
| hour the rest of the night to tell us things weren't right until
| she could have some more milk in her bottle.)
|
| - Some people recommend letting one year olds crying themselves
| to sleep until they "learn to sleep". I recommend against it.
| What small kids seems to be afraid of is that parents disappear.
| Training the kid to realize that parents are there and will check
| back even if they don't cry seems to help a lot. In other words:
| if kid cries, pop your head in and say the some very few
| carefully selected nice words, but more importantly and somewhat
| counterintuitively if the kid does not cry, have a timer on short
| intervals and make it boringly predictable to the kid that you
| will show up even if they don't cry. What I found out was that as
| soon as my kids realized I would come back with boring precision
| even if they just played with their toys they stopped shouting or
| crying: I cannot know what they think but I guess somewhere along
| the lines of "no need to bother crying if dad shows up in exacly
| 2 minutes 40 seconds since he was here 20 seconds ago"
| [deleted]
| ninkendo wrote:
| Sounds like somebody hasn't read the documentation:
| https://www.amazon.com/Baby-Owners-Manual-Instructions-Troub...
| chrisfinazzo wrote:
| Nobody reads the documentation :)
|
| Although, as I understand it, some of the training materials
| for new employees has gotten better over the years.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Welcome-Willems-Guide-New-Arrivals/dp...
| cptnapalm wrote:
| In the context of the larger game of Real Life, the NPCs get
| really mad if you lose one of the children. That's not fun at
| all.
| lifeisstillgood wrote:
| I remember being a parent helper at a school trip. Now at my
| paid employment, 99% successful completion rate would be bonus
| time, but coming back with only 99% of the children who started
| the trip was considered a failure - clearly the education
| system has something to learn from modern management practise !
| spzb wrote:
| It's even worse if you come back with 99% having set off with
| fewer than 100 individual units in the first place.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-01-04 23:00 UTC)