[HN Gopher] CSVCHAIN - NFTs backed by CSV technology
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CSVCHAIN - NFTs backed by CSV technology
Author : rasmi
Score : 177 points
Date : 2022-01-10 20:02 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (csvchain.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (csvchain.com)
| tiarafawn wrote:
| > By purchasing an NFT you have the right to say that you are the
| person that purchased that NFT.
|
| Complete and accurate.
| neiled wrote:
| This sounds a lot like Matt Levine's newsletter today (Money
| Stuff). So funny!
| bambax wrote:
| Yes it does. It's curious since he's listed as the first owner
| on this, and just announced he was making an Excelchain (like
| CSVchain but with Excel -- the more technology the better I
| guess?)
|
| Matt Levine is a great writer. I have little interest in
| finance but enjoy his newsletter immensely. Highly recommended.
| stickfigure wrote:
| Totally different from ExcelCoin! CSVCHAIN is platform-
| independent.
| gallamine wrote:
| they're in reverse chronological orders so Levine's was just
| added.
| bradtheappguy wrote:
| I'm disappointed that I read the headline wrong. I thought these
| NFTs were powered by CVS technology.
| weare138 wrote:
| CVS blockchains are printed on one long continuous receipt and
| occasionally gives you $2.00 off NFTs if you have a CVS card.
| hulitu wrote:
| I'm waiting for TXTCHAIN - NFTs backed by TXT technology.
| boopboopbadoop wrote:
| I have one-upped TXTCHAIN with PAPERCHAIN. In order to ensure
| decentralization, I have a webcam pointed at my PAPERCHAIN
| paper ledger that is active at all times. Other PAPERCHAIN
| paper ledger node-people maintain the same setup, and they
| duplicate the changes I make to my PAPERCHAIN, and vice versa.
|
| Longest latency in the game, invest before it's too late.
| thescribbblr wrote:
| Is this a joke?
| rasmi wrote:
| See: https://csvchain.com/#faq
| serious_habit wrote:
| Are NFTs a joke?
| oneplane wrote:
| Yes, this is an NFT.
| jedimastert wrote:
| It's a technically complete POC of NFTs, as far as I can tell.
| rchaud wrote:
| Critical security flaw: right-clicking is enabled!
| shiado wrote:
| Has anybody ever thought of something like a real world NFT?
| Imagine if you took a bunch of dried plant pigments and mixed
| them with oil and smeared them onto a canvas. Because it is
| physical it couldn't be duplicated or double-spent and it has a
| simple materials-based minting cost. I don't think anybody has
| done this before and there is probably a large market for buying
| and selling something like this. These are early days.
| canarypilot wrote:
| Next you will want a building in which to keep these objects,
| which will of course need heating and lighting (need I even
| start to compute the power cost...) and will take up real
| estate that could otherwise be used for apartments where people
| could literally LIVE!
|
| You've also failed to account for right clickers (so named for
| the click of a camera shutter, normally triggered by a button
| to the right of the camera) who can simply take a picture of
| your object and trade it as they like... This will surely
| reduce the value of any one of your works to zero!
|
| (In all seriousness, NFT's gotta be stopped!)
| throw_nbvc1234 wrote:
| This must explain the resurgence of Vinyl records; gotta have a
| physical music collection.
| markstos wrote:
| Not to be confused with the CVS CHAIN.
| asciimike wrote:
| Ah yes, where NFTs are stored on CVS receipts. Given the recent
| meter long receipts I've gotten from my local CVS, it's
| entirely possible they are already doing this.
| markstos wrote:
| That's the new Couponchain tech. Downside that each receipt
| is longer the last.
| davesque wrote:
| > How do I pay with cryptocurrency?
|
| > Easy, you just need to convert it to USD first.
|
| > Is this for real?
|
| > Sure
|
| > Is this performance art?
|
| > Maybe?
|
| Love it. I think Roy's making a killing off this.
| rfd4sgmk8u wrote:
| Most NFTs are pretty much a scam, but:
|
| This is the kind of joke for people that think they are clever
| but don't really understand the situation. Its kind an ignorant
| position, reminds me of a 'brb downloading RAM' joke. Or sending
| someone a plastic Bitcoin. or Faxing dollar bills.
|
| Someone made a web site, ok. Guess we don't need fancy Blogging
| platforms now.
| literalsunbear wrote:
| C'mon now.
| rfd4sgmk8u wrote:
| The point of this joke site is to say "look NFTs are just a
| set of records", while missing the whole point of
|
| trustless, censorship resistant, append only, peer to peer
| ledgers
|
| The thing is, we saw these jokes about Bitcoin 10+ years ago.
| Its easy to point fun at things that one doesn't really
| understand. I imagine lots of people see this joke and go
| "Ha! See! You dont need a blockchain" while missing the point
| entirely.
| boopboopbadoop wrote:
| > The thing is, we saw these jokes about Bitcoin 10+ years
| ago.
|
| The bulk of which are probably still valid today, but you
| can't understand because you have conflated price with
| value.
| throw_nbvc1234 wrote:
| > you have conflated price with value.
|
| This is a key point of discussion. You and OP probably
| have very different definitions of value; you can be 100%
| right from your perspective and 100% wrong from theirs.
| And if that's the case, you need to unify your
| definitions of value before you can discuss the merits of
| anything built on top of that definition. Or just agree
| to disagree.
| somebodythere wrote:
| The site certainly helps make the case for a blockchain.
|
| "Send an email to kick off this manual process with lots of
| waiting for another human to do a thing, and once he has
| your money, he may or may not do what he said he would, and
| if he does, hope he types in your information correctly,
| and if he does, hope that the one copy of the ledger hosted
| on some guy's computer doesn't go down, and if it doesn't,
| hope you don't have to sell because the marketplace is
| charging 10% rent on transactions and you have no
| alternatives..."
| timeon wrote:
| > censorship resistant
|
| Not always.
| mwattsun wrote:
| Where's the smart contract capability? Smart contracts are
| important in certain applications, which is why I store purchases
| in XML and do transformative contracts in XSLT. Version 2.0 of
| XSLT is Turing-Complete, with the added advantage that XSLT
| syntax is a specialized form of XML, so I only have to use one
| syntax for coins and contracts. I call mine Dotcom Bubble Chain.
| mattwad wrote:
| Haha, love it. I wonder if the typo in this line was intentional:
| > All transactions are manually entered by Roy to minimized
| mistakes.
| chewbacha wrote:
| It also makes the transactions atomic and serialized!
| dang wrote:
| All: please keep threads like this from degenerating into the
| same-old-flamewar we've already had hundreds of times at this
| point. It has become super tedious. Also, tedious threads
| inevitably turn nasty (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page
| =0&prefix=true&sor...).
|
| If you have something genuinely new or curious to say, great.
| Otherwise please move on.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| gcampos wrote:
| In the same vein: https://github.com/william-fields/witless
| eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 wrote:
| tgv wrote:
| Yeah, those poor emphatic NFT merchants. What's next?
| Ridiculing MLM?
| dang wrote:
| Please do not take HN threads further into flamewar. That's
| the most destructive thing you can do here.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| politician wrote:
| actually_a_dog wrote:
| Some ideas deserve to be mocked.
| secondcoming wrote:
| Not really. All this nonsense should be called out for what it
| is.
| dang wrote:
| Please don't post generic flamewar comments to HN. We've been
| through this hundreds of times at this point. It's tedious.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 wrote:
| It's not like it hasn't been done a million times.
|
| So what is the added value in repeating this hate-fest every
| day?
| animal_spirits wrote:
| To make me laugh
| fuzzer37 wrote:
| Because this is a funny satire.
| TigeriusKirk wrote:
| There is no value in the endless repetition.
|
| There's also no value in getting worked up about it.
|
| The only viable response is to accept it's going to happen
| and have meaningful discussions elsewhere.
| eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 wrote:
| > The only viable response is to accept it's going to
| happen and have meaningful discussions elsewhere.
|
| That is precisely why I said Hackernews is doing itself a
| disservice:
|
| This makes people leave the site, like you just proved by
| suggesting it.
| TigeriusKirk wrote:
| > Hackernews is doing itself a disservice
|
| I agree, it is. However, that's the collective choice
| that's been made, and it's very clear it's been made. So
| I accept that.
|
| I'll post on crypto threads when I feel I have something
| to contribute, but I won't allow myself to be drug into
| the muck.
|
| There's other venues for good discussion on crypto
| topics, so you're not really losing anything. And the
| large majority here doesn't feel they're losing anything.
| It works out.
| actusual wrote:
| Vile hatred? It's a joke website.
|
| Also, if you truly believe in a technology and its future,
| doesn't "everyone hating it" just widen the inefficiency gap
| for some folks to make a bunch of money on a technology they
| are certain will be valuable one day?
| eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 wrote:
| I'm not criticizing this particular submisssion but rather
| the fact that there is now *every* single day a thread where
| people hate on crypto.
|
| What is the benefit for the community if a place which used
| to be about acquiring knowledge now spends their time on
| hating the same thing over and over again every day?
| acdha wrote:
| You don't have to worry about it if you solve real problems.
|
| The cryptocurrency backlash is coming after a decade of
| salespeople showing up to make breathless pitches about a
| fantasy world where you need to pay up front for results they
| think they might be able to deliver if you give them enough
| money, but no guarantees.
|
| (Remember the guy who mocked Dropbox? He existed but very
| clearly did not speak for even a majority of people here.)
| actusual wrote:
| > By purchasing an NFT you have the right to say that you are the
| person that purchased that NFT.
|
| Tell me more....
| m3kw9 wrote:
| Now this is a case where I'd use a blockchain like Ethereum
| instead
| [deleted]
| asciimike wrote:
| I see that CSVCHAIN is "held in cold storage on this USB drive" a
| 1 GB thumb drive. This seems to imply an upper bound on the
| number of NFTs on CSVCHAIN. How, I wonder, does the creator of
| this project expect to scale CSVCHAIN beyond this limit?
|
| Additionally, can we secure guarantees that the project owner is
| safely ejecting the USB drive in question?
| weego wrote:
| Once Roy makes some $ he could horizontally scale to a 2GB
| drive. Or 2 1GB drives and keep one in his sock draw so it's
| distributed in his house.
| asciimike wrote:
| In the event of using 2 1GB drives with one stored in the
| sock drawer, how do we prevent the quite literal "evil maid"
| attacks altering the CSVCHAIN?
|
| Additionally, if we do use this mechanism, I petition to fork
| the name from CSVCHAIN to SockChain.
| xrd wrote:
| I don't know how many times I need to repeat this FACT on
| this site, but socks are NOT immutable. How many holes do
| you have in your 7 year old socks? I'd wager a LOT. How
| many mismatched socks do you have in your drawer? I'd
| wager, AGAIN, a LOT.
|
| The only way to make this truly secure, is to have 2 USB
| thumb drives, plugged into a different side of the machine
| (god hope you have a machine with USB ports on both sides).
| Then, saw the machine in half, right down the middle. I'll
| find the crypto paper where I read about that.
| howdydoo wrote:
| Socks are in fact immutable infrastructure. When your EC2
| instance crashes, you shut it down and provision a new
| one. When your socks get holes, you throw them out and
| buy new ones. This isn't 2010 anymore, you really think
| people debug their servers and mend their socks?
| xrd wrote:
| You are thinking about threads, not socks. It's the
| threading technology you need to review; HINT: the color
| matters.
| SahAssar wrote:
| The threads built on NFT-w (natural fibre textile, wool)
| don't have these issues and can be spun up in a more eco-
| friendly way. All these garment-haters that talk about
| how cotton requires huge amounts of land and water don't
| seem to understand that we have already solved these
| issues by using a BAT (basic ALPACA token), and those of
| us who bought BAT early will be riding this kid all the
| way to new zeeland!
|
| EDIT: the downvoters are just people who don't know how a
| POW (proof of wool) exchange works, or are in denial
| about how we can scale it by using clumps to have
| localized, bidirectional hair-pulls. It can scale from
| dual-crimps all the way up to a felt.
| Stratoscope wrote:
| One of the most fascinating things I learned as a kid was
| that you can cut a Planaria flatworm in half, and each
| half regenerates the missing half. So now you have two
| Panaria.
|
| If this works for the CSVCHAIN PC, you could have
| exponentially increasing compute power and storage!
| rburhum wrote:
| I wish I could upvote this more
| bowmessage wrote:
| Wow, transaction confirmation times are really slow. I've been
| waiting for my purchase to go through for an hour now.
| [deleted]
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| My favorite explanation for NFT is currently this:
|
| Imagine you have a wife and your wife is being drilled by
| everyone and you can't do anything about it.
|
| But you do have a marriage certificate.
| fleventynine wrote:
| A marriage certificate that you bought from some random guy on
| the street and has no legal significance.
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| Are you arguing that you purchasing a picture from me on
| Opensea does?
| kgwgk wrote:
| No. You are the random guy and Opensea is the street. (And
| it's not a picture/wife that you sell, is an
| NFT/certificate.)
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| Sure, but how am I different from million other guys on
| the street or Opensea.
|
| Lets start at the beginning. You have analogy wrong (
| which is a problem with analogies - they are open to
| interpretation ). The joke part says the following:
|
| 1. You have a wife. 2. She is not behaving like your
| wife. 3. You have a marriage certificate saying she is
| your wife
|
| And NFTs follow the same pattern, because:
|
| NFTs say they are your wife. They do not behave like your
| wife ( everyone can have them ). You have a digital
| certificate saying that NFT is your wife regardless.
|
| **
|
| As a guy on the street, I only see a value of selling
| fake wife certificate. I do not see value buying it.
|
| I hope I explained it right.
| lmarcos wrote:
| > As a guy on the street, I only see a value of selling
| fake wife certificate. I do not see value buying it.
|
| You just described the whole NFT scam. I would love to
| produce pngs I can sell for thousands of dollars. I won't
| buy NFTs not even for a penny.
| kgwgk wrote:
| Well, it seems you have your own analogy wrong ;-) [By
| the way, the "A marriage certificate that you bought from
| some random guy on the street and has no legal
| significance." was not mine.]
|
| If the NFT is the wife, what is the certificate?
| pavlov wrote:
| And there may be hundreds of similarly "unique" marriage
| certificates sold, and the person you're supposedly married
| to has never even heard of you, yet you're absolutely
| convinced she's in love with you forever.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| My current way to explain to non techies is that it's like
| those "Name a star" sales:
|
| * Artificial seeming scarcity out of something that's
| inherently abundant
|
| * No actual ownership of actual thing
|
| * Instead, a overly-detailed focus on mechanics of the process:
| We will send you a gilded certificate; we will put your entry
| into a leather bound book; this cook will be registered with
| United States Copyright Office; it will be added to Library of
| Congress, etc etc etc - giving seeming legitimacy to the
| endevour
|
| The only thing that's missing, and it's a critical difference,
| is the complete lack of secondary market for named stars :D
| miracle2k wrote:
| There is another critical difference: The person creating the
| NFT is, in theory, the artist who as a claim to authorship of
| the work.
| zbuf wrote:
| > Imagine you have a wife
|
| I feel like this comedian knows their audience
| ForgotMyPwOops wrote:
| My understanding is that this is not correct, it conflates all
| NFT transactions without nuance, if one buys intellectual
| property via NFT and can prove it (which is ostensibly NFT's
| raison d'etre) then I see no reason why they couldn't exercise
| their rights to it (i.e. sue for copyright infringement, ect)
| folli wrote:
| So you need to fallback to centralized government to sue for
| copyright? How bourgoise.
| ForgotMyPwOops wrote:
| Maybe I misunderstand your point but intellectual property
| can only exist under a legal system, this seems like a
| shallow 'gotcha'
| heyitsguay wrote:
| No, it's a thorough gotcha for a shallow topic to which
| money has given the illusion of depth. If you need a
| centralized entity to enforce the rights associated with
| a decentralized system, the decentralized system is
| unnecessary. We've long had solutions for the purchase of
| digital assets on any platform you choose, with ownership
| and usage rights enforced by the state.
| ForgotMyPwOops wrote:
| Your implicit claim is that NFTs offer nothing more than
| decentralization which is not true, as it's basis is a
| public tamper resistant ledger that is difficult to
| censor. How many systems like this exist already? How
| many are easier to use than NFTs? How many of your
| prospective customers are likely to know about or want to
| use this alternate system versus NFTs?
|
| To claim it has no benefits other than decentralization
| seems odd to me
| jrek wrote:
| What problem is solved via a public tamper resistant
| ledger outside of the hypothetical? I routinely make
| purchases outside of a public tamper resistant ledger
| without issue.
|
| I'd argue that what you've stated is just the mechanism
| by which decentralisation is achieved (you haven't
| identified any additional benefits).
| paddlepop wrote:
| The only novel benefit, as you say, is "decentralized
| trust". The blockchain portion of the NFT in most cases
| is simple a pointer to the asset and the owner, with the
| actual asset being off-chain managed by a single entity
| that can do whatever they please with it. Why does the
| ownership need to be decentralized if ultimately, the
| asset is mutable?
| choward wrote:
| Exactly. This is my problem with all these things people
| claim blockchain technology will solve. People think it's
| magically going to solve all the problems created by the
| government. They think it's a work around to fix
| corruption.
|
| No matter how hard you blockchain you're still under the
| law of the government. You still have to pay taxes in
| your country's currency. Your "decentralized" blockchain
| still relies on centralization. Your internet
| infrastructure is centralized and ran usually by the
| government. The power grid you depend on is centralized.
|
| My point is your blockchain technology still relies on
| the government. China even outlawed Bitcoin mining. YOU
| ARE NOT GOING TO FIX POLITICAL PROBLEMS WITH BLOCKCHAIN.
| ForgotMyPwOops wrote:
| > People think it's magically going to solve all the
| problems created by the government
|
| No one other than extremists (which exist in all groups)
| believe this, using this as a reason to hate NFTs makes
| you appear unreasonable and not grounded in reality
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| Oh, there is nuance.
|
| Still, legally speaking, who is exactly enforcing it?
| Opensea? MPAA? I get that is going to be a fun question to
| answer since you can technically sue for anything ( but its
| not a guarantee that a judge will throw it out if he/she sees
| something sufficiently in the 'wasting my time' category ).
| ForgotMyPwOops wrote:
| Can the NFT be cryptographically verified to be authentic?
| If so then it should be as good as any other proof of
| purchase
| rfd4sgmk8u wrote:
| No, this is gross. It implies that marriage certificates grants
| you the exclusive rights to have sex with another party.
| choward wrote:
| No it doesn't. You just made that up. Your comment implies
| you're just someone who likes to go looking for things to get
| outraged about. See, I can make up "implications" too.
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| Quite the opposite. Marriage is a legal contract that, among
| other things, bestows certain rights and obligations. There
| is a reason 'adultery' is something that counts as marital
| misconduct.
| rfd4sgmk8u wrote:
| Uhhh.. obligations to sex? That is exactly what this
| analogy is saying. Its gross to assume that anyone owes you
| sex.
| pedrosorio wrote:
| > Its gross to assume that anyone owes you sex.
|
| > your wife is being drilled by everyone and you can't do
| anything about it
|
| I interpret this as "someone owes you to not have sex
| with other people" (which is a common assumption in most
| marriages), not that someone owes you sex...
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| miracle2k wrote:
| I'm a huge NFT enthusiast and collector. This project gets NFTs
| exactly right. It's frankly refreshing to see someone seemingly
| get it - most of the critiques are just so bad. It's just that: I
| don't see the problem at all. I'd encourage you all to buy NFTs
| on CSVChain, ideally from real artists committed to their craft.
| jedimastert wrote:
| This is amazing. It might actually make it easier for me to
| explain what NFTs _actually_ are if they 're completely separated
| from a blockchain and the rest of the malarkey.
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