[HN Gopher] Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the We...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)
        
       Author : adrian_mrd
       Score  : 167 points
       Date   : 2022-01-13 16:21 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (spectrum.ieee.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (spectrum.ieee.org)
        
       | jackofalltrades wrote:
       | this episode of command line heroes talks about the minitel
       | (https://www.redhat.com/en/command-line-heroes/season-7/world)
       | 
       | Season 7 of the podcast is all about the first times of the web.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | (2017)!
       | 
       | Bunch of discussion a year or so ago:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24439744
        
       | louissan wrote:
       | I remember being nearly murdered by my parents after they
       | received the phone bill via the (physical, paper-based in those
       | days :-) ) mail. The minitel promptly was locked out of reach of
       | the family's children ....
       | 
       | still, good days. They even had games!
       | 
       | 36.15 ...
        
         | jpoesen wrote:
         | A little too much of 3615 ZAZA perhaps?
        
           | louissan wrote:
           | hah I wish I could have. But... in hindsight ... no.
           | 
           | Teenage wet fantasies and all that :-)
        
         | thamer wrote:
         | For context for "36.15": you would access Minitel services by
         | typing a numeric code followed by a short textual name, the
         | most common code being 3615.
         | 
         | Advertisements for Minitel services would say something like
         | "Dial 3615 HOTSTUFF to meet a passionate lover". A _lot_ of
         | these services were adult chat, games, or extremely low-res
         | porn, and it was easy to rack up a massive phone bill by
         | connecting to them (you 'd have to remember to disconnect,
         | too!). Another very common use cases was phone book lookups.
         | 
         | Think of it as a physical terminal for a ncurses-style terminal
         | app using a remote client, with the display updating line by
         | line with a scanning cursor as you received data. There's an
         | example of what that looked like in this short documentary
         | about Minitel:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlUmxUB9RhI&t=500s - every
         | single page loaded line by line that way.
        
       | maxired wrote:
       | I remember ads in Video Game magazine claiming you could get free
       | video games. You would actually pay by dialing 1 Hour or so on a
       | very expensive service.
        
       | jacquesm wrote:
       | If anything it was so far ahead of the early web that it hindered
       | adoption of the WWW in France. It was incredibly good and rich,
       | many services that could be used by non-technical people and had
       | a built in monetization system for information providers. It took
       | at least until 1996 before the web could compete and by that time
       | France reluctantly started to let go of their beloved tiny
       | terminals. It took until 2012 (!!) before it was finally
       | decommissioned, but by then there really wasn't much left of it
       | to be turned off.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | I still think it's better for the average people. It's also
         | frugal oriented. You won't have youtube or google maps but for
         | simple searches or orders I think it was peak. Just give it a
         | speed bump and you're good.
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | Zero eye candy, and 1KB pages. Imagine how fast those would
           | load on today's hardware.
        
             | agumonkey wrote:
             | all solar powered on an esp32 thingie
        
             | champtar wrote:
             | 8 colors is plenty eye candy :)
        
         | fmajid wrote:
         | Not really. I worked for France Telecom's Wanadoo ISP division
         | and the Minitel guys tried to sabotage us at every opportunity,
         | including getting the head of our first division CEO Roger
         | Courtois, but they did not manage to slow the progress, even
         | though at the time they had $1B/year in revenues. The bigger
         | hindrance was relatively low PC penetration compared to the UK,
         | Netherlands or Germany.
         | 
         | Fun story: at the time TCP/IP did not ship standard with
         | Windows, so we had to ship CD-ROMs with installers for WinSock,
         | along with a browser (initially Netscape, then IE because it
         | had much better provisioning tools, not because of Microsoft's
         | dirty tricks though they certainly tried). My colleague who was
         | responsible for this was clearly so traumatized he shortly
         | later left the company and joined the Catholic priesthood...
        
           | Voloskaya wrote:
           | > The bigger hindrance was relatively low PC penetration
           | compared to the UK, Netherlands or Germany.
           | 
           | Wasn't that, in part, due to the fact that many people in
           | France already had a Minitel at home?
        
             | trasz wrote:
             | In pre-internet times the purpose of a PC was quite
             | different from electronic communication, so I'd guess
             | people ought to have them anyway... It's a good question,
             | though, why was that.
        
             | miniwark wrote:
             | It's only partly true, many people indeed have a Minitel at
             | home, because it was free to have one (like it was free to
             | have a landline phone). You only had to pay for the usage.
             | And there was great services not yet available on WWW :
             | find the train timetable, find the phone number of someone,
             | chat with a (fake) sexy girl...
             | 
             | As for the PC penetration, there was many, but most of them
             | where not ready for network usage : Commodore, Amstrad,
             | Amiga, Thomson and first generation IBM-PC with MS-DOS.
             | Only the last Amiga, Macintosh and IBM compatibles had the
             | software to use a modem (Thomson had included a Minitel as
             | dual bot in some of their computer instead).
             | 
             | There was no need for internet or to change the computer
             | when WordPerfect, Multiplan and games still work perfectly.
             | At the time, the pricey computer than you bought in the
             | 80's was still good enough in the 90's...
             | 
             | I think than what had incite people to get a computer with
             | modem is not WWW but email (with was not a Minitel
             | feature). The real thing than Minitel hindred in France are
             | Bulletin Board Systems. They where never really a thing in
             | France.
             | 
             | For the curious, there are still a few unofficial Minitel
             | services available : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-
             | serveur_Minitel All you need is a Raspberry Pi and a
             | modified Minitel...
        
           | 123pie123 wrote:
           | MS Windows 3.11 came with TCP/IP winsocks, MS Windows 3.1
           | didn't
           | 
           | but that was the same for all countries
           | 
           | I had the painful job of getting Windows running with netware
           | ie IPX also with TCP/IP
        
             | karmakaze wrote:
             | I remember those days, travelling with a Win 3.1 laptop and
             | a PPP stack with Winsock.dll to use dial-up in various
             | countries. And 1-1 direct text chat apps.
        
         | cm2187 wrote:
         | And it solved a problem I'd argue the internet hasn't solved
         | yet: how to charge users securely, easily and for small
         | amounts. The way it did that is through your phone bill, since
         | the minitel was using your phone line. No credit card number to
         | enter (and be hacked), no credentials to enter. Of course it
         | also meant kids had access to it...
        
         | 908B64B197 wrote:
         | > many services that could be used by non-technical people and
         | had a built in monetization system for information providers
         | 
         | There's still a Minitel today: it's the Apple ecosystem.
         | 
         | Minitel demonstrated regular people were willing to buy
         | services on a machine (phone, phone-like terminal, computer)
         | and use it as part of their normal lives.
        
           | elzbardico wrote:
           | Why singleout apple, when our lives are surrounded by digital
           | subscriptions from a lot of other companies too? Office,
           | Netflix, Youtube Premium, Spotify, Blackblaze etc, etc...
        
             | 908B64B197 wrote:
             | Because the Minitel was completely vertivally integrated.
             | 
             | The terminals, software it ran (as the "OS"), Network and
             | billing were all handled by one entity. And only this
             | entity could approve software for distribution. It was a
             | completely centralized walled garden.
             | 
             | Office, Netflix, Youtube Premium, Spotify, Blackblaze can
             | all run anywhere, and on platforms such as Windows are free
             | to do their own distribution.
        
             | trasz wrote:
             | Because Apple has an ecosystem, whereas the others you
             | mentioned live within someone else's ecosystems.
        
         | jbkiv wrote:
         | I was inspired by the Minitel to start Esurance in 1997. The
         | Minitel of course had porn (more Craigslist type "offerings"
         | from real people) but also reservations, travel,
         | and...INSURANCE! You are totally correct, it was so efficient
         | that it delayed the adoption of the worldwide web. Of course
         | France wanted something in FRENCH (!). As I was raising money
         | in Europe for Esurance, the French executives would look down
         | on me and say "we have the Minitel, we want nothing to do with
         | your Internet" :-)
        
       | elvis70 wrote:
       | In the 1989 song Goodbye Marylou, Michel Polnareff evokes
       | sentimental relationships via Minitel.
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxGLcJgpcEg
        
       | josefrichter wrote:
       | Is there a place in France, probably a technical museum, where
       | one can still try functional Minitel terminal? Or maybe an online
       | "demo"?
        
       | vmception wrote:
       | Protip: this is where we are at with Web3 right now.
       | 
       | People are excited because they can build, any state you see is
       | not the end all be all, and can be changed... by you! It's also
       | very lucrative, more than FAANG while using a simpler stack to
       | deploy a product, so that will keep attracting builders and their
       | networks.
        
       | FiddlerClamp wrote:
       | Traveling through Paris in 1989 I met a guy who had a terminal at
       | his place, and explained to me what a boon it was for gay guys to
       | meet up with each other, socialize, and make friends. I have no
       | doubt that gay men partly drove Minitel adoption (along with
       | other technologies like group phone chat lines, dating apps, and
       | so on).
        
       | bernardlunn wrote:
       | And in UK we had Prestel, also ahead of its time but run by a
       | telco and disrupted by the PC. I woz there, said the old Geezer
        
       | yodsanklai wrote:
       | I have fond memories of Minitel. I remember chatting with other
       | kids on forums when I was about 10 years old. It was really the
       | web before the web. The only issue was that it was incredibly
       | expensive (except for a few services). But it was revolutionary
       | in the sense that within a couple of years, almost every family
       | had one and became connected.
       | 
       | Overall, it was a much faster adoption than internet: it wasn't
       | until the smartphone that everybody was online, before that lots
       | of families didn't have the mean or the skills to operate a
       | computer. Not mentioning that Windows was such a mess. My father
       | bought a PC which became so slow that he couldn't even use it
       | anymore.
        
       | smm11 wrote:
       | Another one of these things that could have steered us all a
       | different way, if only.
        
       | markharper wrote:
       | Notably a core plot device in the French Home Alone style film
       | Deadly Games (aka Dial Code Santa).
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_Games_(film)
        
         | dmix wrote:
         | The trailer is like a Bizarro world Home Alone
         | https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096741/
         | 
         | Now I'm curious if the Home Alone screenwriter watched it.
        
           | elvis70 wrote:
           | John Hughes watched it at the festival of Cannes in 1989,
           | after this article (in French):
           | https://www.bfmtv.com/people/3615-code-pere-noel-le-film-
           | fra...
        
             | dmix wrote:
             | This has always been a great business idea. Watch good
             | foreign films and spin them into Americanized versions then
             | pitch them to Hollywood.
             | 
             | Also I find it amusing that Home Alone in France is titled
             | "Mom, I missed the plane"
        
               | elvis70 wrote:
               | At least, Rene Manzor was eventually hired by Amblin.
        
       | bertil wrote:
       | I'm surprised how little the histories of the web include the
       | contribution of the French tech sector for DSL, the technology
       | that made computer networks easy to expand to every house, and
       | the general idea that the Internet could be a domestic
       | technology. Until the late 80s, the Internet was a military and
       | gradually academic tool, but even until the mid-90s, having an
       | internet connection at home was quaint outside of France where
       | accessing your official records, buying certain things online was
       | a convenient reality. TCP/IP and Tier 1 networks were only one
       | half of the story, and the far smaller, easier half: connecting
       | every country is a matter of a few big projects; connecting
       | everyone is something, that to this day, many still struggle
       | with.
       | 
       | There's an occasional mention of Cepremades as an inspiration for
       | the Internet Protocol, some technicality about Alohanet, but
       | never a history of why that should be in everyone's living room,
       | except a mysterious prescient and unhelpful AOL, their
       | omnipresent CD, and nothing about the government-sponsored,
       | centralised project to make cheap modulator-demodulator use long
       | copper wires -- something that proved both incredibly difficult
       | and relevant.
        
         | JPLeRouzic wrote:
         | > _I'm surprised how little the histories of the web include
         | the contribution of the French tech sector for DSL_
         | 
         | Do you mean for digital technologies or for specifically DSL?
         | As I remember up to 1996 there was no commercial DSL in France,
         | but there were excellent ISDN coverage (with rate up to
         | 128kbits/sec with two channels). However it was quite expensive
         | and when DSL was commercialized in France, it was cheaper at
         | the basic rate of 512Kbits/sec. ISDN commercialization started
         | around 1988 in France. In 1996 the Network part of FT started
         | to think how to open the network to higher bandwidth, and it
         | was not so easy because the internal backbone was built on ATM
         | as it was used by Minitel users. Some years later (2002?) with
         | declining Minitel revenues, FT decided to give the priority to
         | DSL, with an adequate IP backbone.
         | 
         | (Source: It's only from my memories, I was involved in Rennes'
         | 1987 ISDN experiment, network organization in 96-98 and
         | commercialization of ISDN and later DSL, in Brittany, from 1998
         | to 2002)
        
           | p_l wrote:
           | regarding ATM and DSL - A lot of setups in Europe apparently
           | used PPPoA, not PPPoE, meaning your DSL line integrated
           | easily with the ATM network on the backbone from my
           | understanding.
        
             | JPLeRouzic wrote:
             | Thanks, In France it started with PPPoA, yet quickly it
             | moved to PPPoE (~1999). People indeed used PCs not minitels
             | to connect to the new thing of the time (Internet). At the
             | time there was a need to update PCs as most individual or
             | family customers had Windows 98. My experience is that it
             | added instabilities to PC with Win98 where if I remember
             | correctly PPPoE worked out of the box with Win2K and WinXP
             | (it's was a long time ago). Anyway most home PCs of the
             | time where not to able to deal with the speed of ADSL. I
             | remember that the owner of a restaurant in Rennes wanted us
             | to pay them a new PC!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Cupertino95014 wrote:
       | The Minitel was pretty nice. I saw one in 1989 on a trip to
       | Paris.
       | 
       | An important fact hinted at below is: you got the bill as part of
       | your monthly phone bill.
       | 
       | Probably the most common use, not all that interesting to us, was
       | replacing 411 (remember that? I don't think that was the
       | Information number in France.)
       | 
       | Besides porn, it also had online dating.
        
         | linschn wrote:
         | The number was 12. It was discontinued in the early 2000 IIRC.
         | You would call, get a human operator and could make complex
         | queries like get the number of somebody you knew the sound of
         | the name (but not the exact way of writing it) in a town or
         | around a specific area, and the operator would help you find
         | the number.
         | 
         | Also in France, 15 is medical services, 17 is the police and 18
         | are the firefighters. By calling 112 anywhere in Europe you'll
         | get an English speaking operator that can dispatch any
         | emergency service.
        
         | rbanffy wrote:
         | > it also had online dating.
         | 
         | In Brazil (Sao Paulo) we had a similar, Minitel-based, system.
         | No online dating, but I met my first wife in a chatroom. It
         | also had banking and you could transfer money to different
         | banks with it. Initially I got an MSX computer with a modem (at
         | that time the telco rented out the computer instead of a
         | dedicated terminal for a ridiculously low fee), which was also
         | useful for connecting to local BBSs.
         | 
         | Later on I gave the MSX back (should never have done that - it
         | was an unremarkable computer, but a pretty good videogame) and
         | added a V.23 modem to my Apple II+ clone. The system continued
         | to evolve, started accepting 1200 and 2400 bps inbound
         | connections (which made it more accessible, because V.23 modems
         | were not easy to come by). Last time I used it was with Windows
         | 95 and its terminal software.
         | 
         | Legend says the system ran on Multics on a Honeywell-Bull
         | mainframe, making me an actual Multics user.
        
       | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
       | A friend showed me Minitel in 1994, and I was half-surprised,
       | half-not-surprised that even on this entirely text-based system,
       | there was still porn (or at least, "visual erotica"). Human
       | nature, eh?
        
         | fabrice_d wrote:
         | The so-called "Minitel Rose" (all the erotica chat services)
         | services were a cash cow for France Telecom, bringing in
         | billions every year.
         | 
         | Xavier Niel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Niel) started
         | his empire with a sex oriented chat service.
        
           | whiplash451 wrote:
           | Billions might be a little oversized.
        
             | fabrice_d wrote:
             | According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel :
             | 
             | In 1998, Minitel generated EUR832 million ($1,121 million)
             | of revenue, of which EUR521 million was channelled by
             | France Telecom to service providers.
        
             | linschn wrote:
             | It's close if you count it in francs, and include all
             | services. This article [0] says that France Telecome gave
             | 700 M FRF to the operators, which means that 1,050 M FRF
             | were collected in 1986 alone.
             | 
             | [0]
             | 
             | https://www.nouvelobs.com/tech/20170804.OBS3007/l-age-d-
             | or-d...
        
       | mastazi wrote:
       | In Italy, the same service was called Videotel[0] and the
       | terminals were sold by the state-owned phone company, Sip. there
       | was a model where the keyboard would slide out from under the CRT
       | screen[1], and another model where the hinged keyboard would fold
       | onto the screen (similar to a laptop keyboard)[2].
       | 
       | I remember in my area some pubs had these, they were on the
       | tables and you could use them while you were there, it was the
       | first time in my life that I was chatting with someone on the
       | other side of the globe. (I had tried visiting some of the
       | popular BBS on my Amiga to look at cool stuff but had never
       | actually exchanged messages with anyone online). It was cool
       | because you could talk to perfect strangers but sometimes the
       | discussion would go deep. I remember I was so excited about it
       | and my friends were too. I think in the modern Internet we don't
       | really have something like that.
       | 
       | [0] (Italian Wikipedia) - https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videotel
       | 
       | [1] (picture)
       | https://forum.telefonino.net/images_fotodb/pict001494862_7_1...
       | 
       | [2] (picture)
       | https://i.ebayimg.com/00/z/3UcAAOSwT5RdB2AU/$_59.JPG
        
       | athenot wrote:
       | It ran on V.23, which was 1200 bits/s down and 75 bits/s up, but
       | could be reversed in case one wanted to upload / type stuff.
       | 
       | Once modems were widespread, it was a lot better to use Minitel
       | emulators on a computer, as one could record and replay sessions
       | after disconnection--a key aspect since most Minitel numbers were
       | billed at premium rates, to allow services to be monetized.
       | 
       | </memories>
        
       | aero-glide2 wrote:
       | Read about this in Computer networking : a top down approach,
       | fascinating story.
        
       | ulkesh wrote:
       | I currently work for the person who helped start US Videotel and
       | I still haven't scratched much of the surface about all of it
       | with him. Everything about Minitel and US Videotel reminds me of
       | what was depicted in seasons 2 and 3 of _Halt and Catch Fire_. I
       | always wondered if Minitel was their inspiration for the Mutiny
       | software.
        
       | ubermonkey wrote:
       | I remember being shown the minitel in the early 90s, and being
       | AMAZED.
        
       | jgrahamc wrote:
       | I own two Minitels. I made a connector
       | (https://pila.fr/wordpress/?p=361) that allows me to use one as a
       | serial terminal and it works nicely with a Raspberry Pi/stty. I
       | am in the process of writing my own firmware for the other one.
       | 
       | One of my Minitels acting as a terminal over a serial cable I
       | made... displaying jgc.org via Lynx: https://imgur.com/a/ecmvfMj
        
       | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
       | Hm. Seems like just another implementation of
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videotex to me. Which I didn't like
       | that much because of the german
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildschirmtext , which reminded me
       | of the stuff you could get on TV, like this
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext
       | 
       | Maybe the french stuff was more useful in practice, the german
       | always seemed scammy, somehow.
        
         | dboreham wrote:
         | The key difference is that every household in France was
         | provided with a Minitel terminal, on the theory that this would
         | be lower cost than printing phone books. So adoption was high.
        
         | nbuet wrote:
         | Very different. It was really a query/answer based system with
         | built in monetization. You want to check credit of a company,
         | find someone is an obscure directory, talk with some 1996
         | onlyFan chick? Minitel could do. Also, online MMORPG (check car
         | crash).
        
         | masklinn wrote:
         | > Maybe the french stuff was more useful in practice
         | 
         | It was highly pushed by the national telco. The telco lent
         | terminals for free so they were easily available, and there
         | were tons of useful services, especially but not only from
         | national companies: starting from the 80s you had stocks,
         | online shopping, travel reservations, information services,
         | message boards, databases[0], games, dating sites, ...
         | 
         | Monetisation / payment was integrated from the start, through
         | the phone bill: just like premium-rate phone numbers, minitel
         | had premium-rate services (both first and third party), so you
         | could make money out of valuable services. It was nothing
         | compared to the modern web (~25000 services and about $1bn
         | revenue at its height), but for the mid-80s to mid-90s and out
         | of a population of 60m it was quite massive.
         | 
         | [0] trying to get rid of phonebooks was a big reason for
         | minitel in the first place
        
           | fmajid wrote:
           | Remember, at the time the Telco was a government department
           | in a country that firmly believes in industrial policy.
           | 
           | De Gaulle had neglected the country's phone network and it
           | was in a piteous state by the 1960s. A popular comedy sketch,
           | "Le 22 a Asnieres" by Fernand Raynaud had the hapless
           | protagonist trying to call number 22 at Asnieres and it was
           | such an ordeal he only managed to get connected by a
           | telephone operator in New York...
           | 
           | During the 70s, specially under the technocratic president
           | Valery Giscard d'Estaing, the French government invested
           | massively to catch up and for several years the Directorate-
           | General of Telecommunications was the single largest
           | government department by budget. They bet massively on
           | digital switching and created huge telco gear vendors in
           | Alcatel. Towards the end of the 70s that massive surge of
           | investment had started to dwindle and the government was
           | trying to figure out what could be the next wave to foster
           | the telecommunications equipment industry, and Minitel was
           | the answer.
           | 
           | It didn't export well. There was a trial in the US with US
           | West, but it didn't pan out. My former boss Jean Lebrun was
           | one of the key people on the electronic phone directory
           | project, and at the time it was the largest real-time
           | database in the world. It was essentially a distributed in-
           | memory database build on 1980s computer technology, and as
           | you can imagine very expensive. Fun story: Oracle tried to
           | get them to evaluate their RDBMS for the project, and even
           | gave them access to the source code, but it was found to be
           | inadequate.
        
       | miki123211 wrote:
       | Let's not forget that Minitel couldn't be as great as it was if
       | not for its complete and utter centralization.
       | 
       | Sometimes having twenty slightly different services that are
       | blocked from interoperating for the sake of some abstract notion
       | of privacy isn't that great after all.
        
         | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
         | Minitel was probably subject to substantial government
         | regulation, unlike the "tech" companies that dominate the web
         | and overinfluence the internet. Minitel was probably funded at
         | least in part through taxation.
         | 
         | Certainly, Minitel was not a secretive Silicon Valley-styled
         | company with dual class shares or other entrenching governance
         | structures, that allow for concentration of voting power in the
         | hands of company insiders, through disproportionate allocation
         | of voting rights among shareholders.
         | 
         | It seems the French do not have the same hatred of telecom that
         | Amercians do.
         | 
         | Regardless of the public opinion toward telecom, it has
         | historically been subject to far more regulation than so-called
         | "tech" companies operating websites. Sadly, some of today's
         | telecom companies try to emulate or piggyback on the privacy
         | violating behaviour of "Big Tech".
         | 
         | Centralisation/decentralisation is an interesting debate, but
         | if the issue is privacy then, IMO, one also needs to consider
         | the question of regulation/deregulation.
         | 
         | Perhaps Minitel was an example of a regulated, government-
         | supported public computer networking service that worked very
         | well.
         | 
         | Silicon Valley and its charlatan ideology is a privacy
         | disaster. It is probably a threat to the survival of democratic
         | societies as we know them.
        
         | LeanderK wrote:
         | > for the sake of some abstract notion of privacy isn't that
         | great after all.
         | 
         | For some this is not some abstract notion but a real worry. I
         | am glad the internet started decentralised.
        
       | pkaye wrote:
       | I remember back in the late 80s the SF BART stations used to have
       | terminals for something similar to Minitel. It had crude color
       | vector graphics and a menu based system. A little sluggish to
       | since it was probably using modems. Mainly just BART and local
       | information. I used to play with them while waiting for trains
       | with my family.
        
       | EGreg wrote:
       | To me, the Web and VOIP are two great examples of open,
       | permissionless, decentralized plaforms totally disrupting
       | centralized services of the day, and hugely boosting the cost and
       | effectiveness of publishing and telecommunications.
       | 
       | And why I believe Web2 should have something like Wordpress to
       | take on Big Tech.
       | 
       | And why I think Web3 should move past grift and peer to peer
       | protocols, and to applications to holistivally serve entire
       | communities. (https://intercoin.org/proposal.pdf)
       | 
       | PS: I have put my money where my mouth is and built exactly this,
       | over 10 years with no VC funding, and it's profitable. Qbix for
       | Web2 and Intercoin for Web3 https://intercoin.org/overview.pdf
        
       | legulere wrote:
       | In Germany we had something similar called BTX that included
       | online banking in 1981:
       | https://www.nytimes.com/1981/12/28/business/high-technology-...
        
       | doe88 wrote:
       | At this point, Minitel has become kind of _Rorschachtest_ for
       | france, some see forward engineering, some see decline, some
       | bureaucracy... What 's great, is one can project almost anything
       | on it.
       | 
       |  _(disclosure, i 'm french)_
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Some past related threads (if anyone's curious):
       | 
       |  _Minitel_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29004616 - Oct
       | 2021 (2 comments)
       | 
       |  _Old School Minitel Laptop: 7 Steps (With Pictures) -
       | Instructables_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28861842 -
       | Oct 2021 (1 comment)
       | 
       |  _Minitel, the Open Network Before the Internet_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28794257 - Oct 2021 (3
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _The Rise and Fall of Minitel_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25507260 - Dec 2020 (23
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24439744 - Sept 2020 (196
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Log on Like It's 1985: A Fragment of Minitel Returns_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18781820 - Dec 2018 (9
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Minitel - The Rise and Fall of a National Tech Treasure
       | [video]_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16263093 - Jan
       | 2018 (67 comments)
       | 
       |  _Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15401405 - Oct 2017 (15
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14681561 - July 2017 (107
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Minitel, the Open Network Before the Internet_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14577881 - June 2017 (53
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Minitel, France 's precursor to the Web, to go dark 30/6/12_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4175141 - June 2012 (32
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Minitel: The rise and fall of the France-wide web_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4170531 - June 2012 (21
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _How France fell out of love with Minitel_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4088360 - June 2012 (1
       | comment)
       | 
       |  _France 's Minitel service in 1983: online banking, eshopping,
       | and B2B_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2733106 - July
       | 2011 (46 comments)
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-01-13 23:00 UTC)