[HN Gopher] Zendesk pretends to be open source?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Zendesk pretends to be open source?
        
       Author : tailspin2019
       Score  : 111 points
       Date   : 2022-01-14 22:00 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.zendesk.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.zendesk.co.uk)
        
       | firloop wrote:
       | > Zendesk is an open API ticket system which means third-party
       | developers can build new integrations on our platform
       | 
       | Clever segue from "open source", to open.
        
       | gregd wrote:
       | Um providing an API endpoint to a closed, proprietary system,
       | does not make one open source.
        
       | franciscop wrote:
       | Yes, they are pretending to be open source for SEO purposes and
       | that is not okay. They do get the definition of OSS right:
       | 
       | > "Open source support ticket systems are unique in that anyone
       | is free to inspect, modify, and enhance the underlying code
       | that's used to build the ticketing system."
       | 
       | But then somehow they include Zendesk in the "Top 10 open source
       | helpdesk ticketing systems". Can I see the code used to build
       | Zendesk? Obviously not. Now suddenly the definition of Zendesk is
       | this, which is different from the Open Source definition they
       | themselves quoted:
       | 
       | > Zendesk is an open API ticket system which means third-party
       | developers can build new integrations on our platform. Unlike
       | other open source ticketing systems, Zendesk software offers all
       | the advantages of open source ticketing without your team having
       | to build a system from scratch. Zendesk's open API ticketing
       | system software gives your team all the tools they need to build
       | as much--or as little--as they want.
       | 
       | Open API !== Open Source ticket system
       | 
       | PS, archived:
       | 
       | https://web.archive.org/save/https://www.zendesk.co.uk/help-...
        
       | tailspin2019 wrote:
       | From this page:
       | 
       | > Top 10 open source helpdesk ticketing systems
       | 
       | > 1. Zendesk
       | 
       | > 2. etc
       | 
       | Followed by:
       | 
       | > Zendesk is an open API ticket system which means third-party
       | developers can build new integrations on our platform. Unlike
       | other open source ticketing systems, Zendesk software offers all
       | the advantages of open source ticketing without your team having
       | to build a system from scratch.
       | 
       | And at the top:
       | 
       | > Best Open Source Ticketing System
       | 
       | > Open source help desk for a smarter, more agile customer
       | service operation.
       | 
       | > Start free trial
       | 
       | EDIT: Here's some _actual_ open source help desk software. Anyone
       | got any further recommendations?
       | 
       | https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted#tic...
        
       | capableweb wrote:
       | Zendesk seems to have their own definition of what "open source"
       | means, contrary to everyone else:
       | 
       | > An open source ticketing system is software that service teams
       | use to document customer issues. The system helps these teams
       | correctly route, resolve, and track all their customers' problems
       | and requests.
       | 
       | But then go on to state:
       | 
       | > Open source support ticket systems are unique in that anyone is
       | free to inspect, modify, and enhance the underlying code that's
       | used to build the ticketing system. [including a link to
       | https://opensource.com/resources/what-open-source]
       | 
       | I'm interested to see where I can "inspect, modify, and enhance
       | the underlying code" for Zendesk? I've used it sometimes in the
       | past, but never seen any of the underlying code for it.
       | 
       | Edit: seems to contradict themselves a couple of more times in
       | the article too. Here is another passage under "Cons of an open
       | source help desk ticketing system":
       | 
       | > With a help desk like Zendesk's, all it takes is a plan upgrade
       | to access a whole bevy of new features. But with fully open
       | source systems, modifying the code can take multiple days--or
       | weeks if your developers are busy.
       | 
       | Seems they are saying here that Zendesk is not a "fully open
       | source system", judging by that?
       | 
       | More:
       | 
       | > [...] if you have a strong development team ready to go, an
       | open source ticket system could be for you.
       | 
       | > On the other hand, if you have a lean team, or if you want a
       | full feature set that's ready to go, Zendesk is your best option.
        
       | mataug wrote:
       | I'm sure its "open source" to employees at Zendesk
        
       | ericlamb89 wrote:
       | My team uses zendesk and they don't hate it, but this is enough
       | to make me consider the other options on their "top 10" list.
        
       | xerxes901 wrote:
       | Heh, yeah this doesn't look like it makes a lot of sense... I'll
       | go shake a few trees internally and point this out.
        
       | monodot wrote:
       | They're not the only company to do this. "InVideo" (a totally not
       | open source SaaS product) also does the same.
        
       | merrvk wrote:
       | When the marketing team has a bit too much free-reign
        
         | MangoCoffee wrote:
         | the decision makers probably doesn't even know what open source
         | really mean.
         | 
         | they read it on cio magazine and ZenDesk have "open source"
         | api.
        
       | howdydoo wrote:
       | When a company lies in their advertising, typically you can take
       | them to court and get relief.
       | 
       | If a car dealer advertises "free floormat with purchase", and
       | they don't give you a floormat, you sue them. If it makes it all
       | the way to the courtroom, it's an open-and-shut case.
       | 
       | Based on this advertising, I bet someone with the right lawyer
       | could compel ZenDesk to release their source. In fact I hope this
       | happens, then maybe companies will think twice before making
       | false claims like this
        
         | chrisseaton wrote:
         | > Based on this advertising, I bet someone with the right
         | lawyer could compel ZenDesk to release their source.
         | 
         | That's not even remotely how the law works.
        
           | hda2 wrote:
           | It should be, and I'd argue how it used to be.
        
           | howdydoo wrote:
           | A random outsider couldn't do it obviously. But imagine if
           | you had standing to sue, i.e. you signed up and paid for
           | ZenDesk based on this advertising, and then later realized
           | they were lying.
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | In that case, the plaintiff would sue for the damage caused
             | by the lie, which would include the amount paid for the
             | software.
             | 
             | The only case in which you might get the source code as a
             | result is if you _paid_ for the source code. Which is the
             | complete opposite claim of what is being made on this page.
        
               | howdydoo wrote:
               | Yeah, you're probably right. But a guy can dream, can't
               | he?
               | 
               | https://archive.is/0Oihx
        
             | chrisseaton wrote:
             | Talk me through how that gets to a court order to release
             | source code. What legislation or precedents are there for
             | that? If there aren't any, how would a judge arrive at that
             | decision?
        
         | t0mas88 wrote:
         | Not at all. You can make them stop saying they're open source
         | and you can get a refund + maybe some damages if you claim to
         | have bought their product based on this false ad, but that's
         | all. In no way are you ever going to convince a judge to order
         | Zendesk to give you their code.
        
       | mrits wrote:
       | Reminds me how Comodo said they open sourced their EDR but in
       | reality it is just some code thrown around commercial libraries
       | and github comments about no one able to get it to compile.
        
       | Moto7451 wrote:
       | Based on the URL structure and the content I will venture a guess
       | that this is SEO keyword driven content. They likely have a list
       | of top keywords they're looking to rank well on and this is one
       | such keyword.
        
         | tailspin2019 wrote:
         | Yep. But IMHO the content of the page seems pretty deliberately
         | written to be misleading.
         | 
         | I spent a good 10 minutes trying to understand what I was
         | reading here.
        
           | manquer wrote:
           | I think SEO content is just code word is for misleading
           | deliberately, it is either misleading the search engines or
           | the users or both.
        
       | riantogo wrote:
       | Somewhat related, last time when I posted about my forums
       | platform[1] that I'm trying to get off the ground, someone here
       | asked if it is open source so they can contribute. Now, I would
       | love for it to be open source and have the community enhance the
       | features (or even clone it for themselves), but I don't know how
       | to set up an open source project. I'm guessing it is more than
       | just zipping up the source files and making it available for
       | download. Any pointers on how best to go about doing it? Any best
       | practices?
       | 
       | [1] https://discoflip.com
        
         | lkschubert8 wrote:
         | Do you use any version control management system like git, svn,
         | or fossil? If not, your first step would likely setting up your
         | project with one of them (most likely git) and then just
         | pushing it to a service like github.
        
         | E39M5S62 wrote:
         | Put your software in a VCS of some kind. Add an appropriate
         | license from https://spdx.org/licenses/ . Make the source
         | available on the internet.
         | 
         | Most people do this all via GitHub, GitLab, etc.
        
         | songzme wrote:
         | you could start by creating a repository on github and gitlab,
         | they have resources to help you track your source code with git
         | and push your code to your repository. Then now you code is
         | available for everyone to see.
         | 
         | Next, you want to create a readme file so someone new to your
         | project could read it and understand how the code works. You
         | can also start creating issues of features / bugs you plan to
         | do.
        
       | rplnt wrote:
       | Is this post another SEO attempt to make them rank higher in OSS
       | ticketing systems?
        
       | jasonhansel wrote:
       | This is the sort of article you expect to find on a "best
       | reviews" website full of Amazon affiliate links.
       | 
       | edit: As intended, when you Google "best open source helpdesk
       | 2021," Google now just shows the following excerpt:
       | 
       | > Top 10 open source helpdesk ticketing systems
       | 
       | > * Zendesk.
       | 
       | > * FreeScout.
       | 
       | > * osTicket.
       | 
       | > [...]
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | And _this_ after the edit is the main purpose here. Tricking
         | Knowledge Graph into regurgitating bad info, and then claiming
         | that their site never states Zendesk is open source, and Google
         | just misunderstood.
        
           | jasonhansel wrote:
           | Time to write an article "Top 5 Best SEO Strategies 2022"
           | with the following list:
           | 
           | 1. Lie to people
           | 
           | 2. Get Google to lie for you
           | 
           | 3. Maintain plausible deniability
           | 
           | 4. Hope nobody notices
           | 
           | 5. Offer token apologies if you get caught
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | Thanks for pointing this out. I just used the Feedback link in
         | that Google search result page to specify that Zendesk is not
         | open source. If enough people do this, it will completely
         | negate (or even penalize?) Zendesk's misleading marketing
         | attempt.
        
       | jrm4 wrote:
       | So cliche, but nonetheless true:
       | 
       | Stallman was right.
        
       | n0n0n4t0r wrote:
       | And they didn't even include iTop! I guess the revamp of the 3.0
       | afraid them this much!
       | 
       | Disclaimer: I contributed to iTop, but I seriously consider it as
       | a better solution than Zendesk, especially since it is more
       | customizable and has an integrated cmdb.
        
       | harunurhan wrote:
       | I bumped into this just yesterday, it's sad that the page ranks
       | very high for "open source ticketing" :(
        
       | tentacleuno wrote:
       | I'm not really surprised. Personally, I tend to avoid these
       | 'comparisons' from websites that are somehow biased in promoting
       | their own solutions, e.g. I wouldn't go to a website selling a
       | text editor to find out the best text editors.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-01-14 23:00 UTC)