[HN Gopher] Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine
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Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine
Author : paddlesteamer
Score : 73 points
Date : 2022-01-15 20:38 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.instructables.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.instructables.com)
| hourislate wrote:
| First comment on page.
|
| >My wife is an Ironman as well (Muskoka, Tremblant and
| Penticton). . She's been using Zwift since last year. Great way
| to train btw and great idea but. My concern would be a collapsed
| lung(s) if this wasn't calibrated correctly. To each their own,
| but stressing your lungs and diaphragm this much isn't a great
| idea.
|
| In a lab they can at least make sure you don't hurt yourself.
| 762236 wrote:
| How would you get a collapsed lung from using this? And how
| does its calibration influence whether you get a collapsed
| lung? This device doesn't interfere with inspiration, and a
| large breath of air inflates your alveoli.
| jacquesm wrote:
| Pulling a vacuum against your lung can break adhesion when
| done from the lung cavity.
| [deleted]
| voisin wrote:
| How could it cause one's lungs to collapse? Isn't the idea of
| measuring VO2 max that a tight seal is formed and all input and
| output is measured for O2 and CO2? It isn't pressurizing or
| depressurizing.
| jacquesm wrote:
| It is pressurizing on output due to the flow through the
| device, the same thing causes some underpressure when
| breathing in.
|
| But I doubt it is enough to draw a vacuum strong enough to
| break adhesion. Still, better safe than sorry, it would be
| good to read the instruction manual of a professional unit to
| see what kind of failure modes they have listed there.
| jacquesm wrote:
| I see where you're coming from I assume that you are talking
| about the device resistance when breathing in and you're
| worried that the adhesion between the lung sac and the cavity
| wall breaks.
|
| You can pull a pretty good vacuum with just your lungs, so I'm
| not overly worried about that. And pressure is not a problem
| unless you have a weak spot in your lung.
|
| But still, it's a good point to make and maybe the author could
| measure the flow resistance in both directions and optimize for
| that to ensure that it never becomes a problem, even in people
| that might have a hidden defect.
| aghilmort wrote:
| very cool -- am an ultradistance athlete -- definitely could be a
| Kickstarter!
| toddm wrote:
| I would happily pay a premium for this device - very nice work!
| [deleted]
| ghastmaster wrote:
| The title should be changed to reflect the title used in the
| article. "Accurate VO2 Max for Zwift and Strava"
|
| Especially considering the following:
|
| > Physiology labs that are normally used for testing VO2 max cost
| upwards of $60,000 and are certainly not portable. They have
| sensors that measure the same things only on a much finer level.
| gurjeet wrote:
| The person who wrote the article must've had a specific
| audience in mind, so they chose one title.
|
| The person who posted the article here must've had HN's
| audience in mind, so they chose a different title.
|
| Titles convey ultra-dense summary of the content, so there can
| be many titles appropriate for any given article. The purpose
| of the title is to attract _attention_ of the audience who the
| title-writer thinks would find it most interesting.
|
| The reason someone writes an article, or posts in a forum, is
| to spread an idea, or a message, and have other like-minded
| people, or people who may find the info useful, read it.
| Exception: content written for commercial/monetary gains has no
| goal other than grabbing eyeballs, to make more money.
|
| So, yes, it's okay to edit titles, but only if they're
| egregiously misleading, or inappropriate, or if there's a
| better title to convey the summary and attract the attention of
| folks in the said forum.
|
| Context (as to why this request of yours triggered me):
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25093563
| ghastmaster wrote:
| The OP here chose to use a title with an astounding monetary
| figure in it. I was baited. I would not have read the article
| if it had the original title. Strict adherence to the
| guidelines would have saved me here.
|
| Regarding your post, I am curious if "Google" was removed by
| yourself(and later changed your mind) or the moderators?
| csours wrote:
| Neat! I've been thinking about this lately. If you had accurate
| CO2 and O2 measurements, you could calculate how many milligrams
| of fat you are burning during exercise.
| savant_penguin wrote:
| Sometimes I wonder if the way to bypass the insane regulations
| around medical devices is to just publish them online for anyone
| to build themselves.
|
| Sure I won't have the minutes detail of million dollar medical
| equipment, but maybe I don't need all that precision, or maybe
| that's better than having no access at all to the measurements at
| all
| user48289223 wrote:
| I think this would really be great. The extra regulations of
| the FDA are showing to be more and more of a burden as years go
| on (let's not get into their corruption). Something like a chip
| and a device sold separately but trivially put together. I
| myself ran into this problem when trying to buy a blood lactate
| meter as an American, which can be trivially purchased all
| across Europe and Asia.
| yeetaccount4 wrote:
| It's ironic that a lot of their approval process amounts to
| filling out paperwork without any verification or testing on
| their part.
|
| Source: I know people.
| csdvrx wrote:
| We need a currently "missing" network effect that cheap 3d
| printer supporting everything from more flexible plastics to
| metal will eventually provide.
| nexuist wrote:
| Wake me up when we can 3D print pills and I can craft the
| perfect Tylenol or 5 hour energy from some React app. Now
| that'll be a medical revolution!
| NationalPark wrote:
| What are the devices you have in mind? It doesn't seem like the
| intersection between "people with biomedical engineering
| skills" and "people who need treatment limited by the expense
| of the equipment" would be that large. I suppose I can imagine
| a sort of shadow economy of cheap medical treatment on home-
| built equipment, but surely the providers would be uninsurable
| and sued into oblivion at the first mistake.
| guelo wrote:
| Ones that immediately comes to my mind are ultrasound,and
| hearing aids. If they were unregulated there would be cheap
| OTC devices available.
| complexworld wrote:
| I work on a handheld ultrasound device that attached to a
| phone or a tablet. It is much easier to use than
| traditional ultrasound machines, because of the attention
| paid to the UX off the app, and the familiar smartphone UI.
|
| That being said I will haven't learned how to use it in a
| meaningful way myself. Getting a good image, and then
| interpreting the 2d video stream requires training!
|
| Making ultrasound easy enough for non specialists to use
| will require an AI that guides the user and interprets the
| images. I'm not convinced skipping FDA approval would be a
| good idea in this case.
| j-bos wrote:
| At least in the US, there's a fair amount of immigrant
| medical professionals who have the training, often the
| experience, but not the licensing.
| pkaye wrote:
| What are the insane aspects of the regulations?
| hprotagonist wrote:
| Most of them are written in blood.
| trentnix wrote:
| This is really great. For those who aren't familiar with what
| these machines can do, the calculation of an athlete's Vo2 max
| really isn't all that useful. However, a breakdown of the fat and
| carbohydrate calories burned at various efforts can be incredibly
| useful for helping an athlete learn how to fuel correctly for
| performance over distance.
|
| I'm not a physiologist or physician (and I'm sure what I'm about
| to say may be max cringe to the bonafide experts that are
| around), but my basic understanding is that when expending
| effort, you burn calories from fat stores and from glycogen
| stores. Glycogen stores store around 2000 calories, and expending
| one's glycogen stores results in hitting "the wall" - your body
| simply doesn't have any fuel to proceed. Your fat stores, on the
| other hand, provide access to tens of thousands of calories.
|
| People are generally fat-inefficient - any effort immediately
| biases towards consumption of glycogen. And when you're out,
| that's it. Your day is done. So knowing the rate you're burning
| carbohydrate calories can inform an athlete how often and how
| much to fuel.
|
| Some people are born "fat-efficient", meaning they can access
| their fat stores easier. Fat efficiency can also be improved
| through low-intensity endurance training with improved diet. So
| athletes will periodically do a VO2 test to stay in-tune with how
| their body is using the fuel sources available to it.
|
| Many years ago I did an Ironman (Couer d'Alene) and a Vo2 test
| indicated I needed to _aggressively_ consume calories (at the
| effort I was planning to ride) on the bike. After all, you have
| to get off the bike nutritionally prepared and hydrated to run a
| marathon. So that 's what I did, and I had a good day considering
| I really wasn't all that fit.
|
| Endurance and ultradistance events aren't really tests of
| toughness. They are science experiments. It's all about figuring
| out how to take one's fitness and stretch it over the distance of
| the event.
|
| One additional note - there are machines much less expensive than
| 60k available, but they are still pretty expensive (in the
| thousands).
| ssl232 wrote:
| A friend of mine does keto and after running a marathon
| reported that they did not experience "the wall". Presumably
| this is because they were using fat to begin with, not after
| mile 15 or whatever.
| soperj wrote:
| Just a note, it's probably "Coeur d'Alene"
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(page generated 2022-01-15 23:00 UTC)