[HN Gopher] Effortless personal productivity (or how I learned t...
___________________________________________________________________
Effortless personal productivity (or how I learned to love my
monkey mind)
Author : jakobgreenfeld
Score : 263 points
Date : 2022-01-17 12:41 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (jakobgreenfeld.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (jakobgreenfeld.com)
| teekert wrote:
| Hmm, finally some tricks that I could actually see myself use!
| Especially the healthy intellectual "snacks". I mean I can get
| stuck on HN for a long time, but to be honest I could also do a
| course that just requires me to listen and eat a (physical) snack
| or something.
|
| I'm still hoping that a some point this leads to a control over
| the states, but maybe I should give up that dream :)
|
| _" I also made so many mistakes that the next day I often spent
| hours finding and fixing them."_ Reminds me of what Rocky says to
| Grace (in the Hail Mary Project): "Sleep first, humans turn
| stupid without sleep." It's better to recognize it and surrender
| to it.
| serverlessmom wrote:
| A helpful link for "intellectual snacks" might be this one:
| https://retrohacker.github.io/wikiscroll/ . It was posted in
| another thread here on Hacker News and I've been enjoying the
| more general information because it helps keep me from becoming
| hyper focused on one subject and scrolling away the hours of
| the day.
| titanomachy wrote:
| Step 1 (develop awareness) is hard. I did a long meditation
| retreat and it helped a lot, although it still takes a lot of
| effort to integrate that back into living.
| _benj wrote:
| I loved the article!
|
| Over the years and after burning out I've learned observe my
| state of mind, but mostly for the distracted mode, and when I
| finding in it I'll just stop whatever focus work I'm doing
| because very few good things come out during that mental mode,
| and a ton of frustration is built.
|
| The part that I haven't been able to accomplish is a good use of
| the low filter mode. For me in this mode I have little to no
| brain power left, and thus anything that is not effort than a
| YouTube video is a chore. I've curated my YouTube so is not
| completely full of trash and have chosen things that I don't feel
| like I just burned a few hours of my life... but still, I'm
| trying to figure out how to use low filter mode better.
|
| Again, good writing, thanks!
| dageshi wrote:
| Is there a definition of "low filter" mode? I don't think I've
| heard of it before.
| nottorp wrote:
| > I'm trying to figure out how to use low filter mode better.
|
| How about some brainless exercise dosed so it's not very
| straining? Couple of pushups, base technique that you know well
| if you do a martial art etc.
| criddell wrote:
| I have a guitar beside my desk that I will pick up and run
| through some scales or something like that to distract me.
| Works great.
| fellowniusmonk wrote:
| Try writing rhymes and poetry on your phone, I've found low
| filter mode great works well for that and is more rewarding
| than most alternatives.
| pitched wrote:
| I have trouble with this too! Lately, I've been trying to use
| podcasts instead of YouTube videos. Audio-only means I can also
| close my eyes and feel a bit more rested afterwards too!
| Cxckers wrote:
| I agree. You actively choose to listen to a certain podcast
| on a topic of interest but on Youtube, it is so easy to fall
| down the endless rabit hole of decreasing quality content and
| that doesn't feel like well spent low-filter time at all
| mwattsun wrote:
| This is great and also what I practice. I've tried to explain it
| to people with limited success, but I think you do a good job
| here. This type of awareness has a long tradition. Ancient
| Sanskrit scholars and Buddha discuss this, as well as Western
| philosophers.
|
| "An unexamined life is not worth living." - Socrates
|
| https://www.civilsdaily.com/mains/an-unexamined-life-is-not-...
|
| _Mahatma Gandhi's examination of self through his autobiography
| 'My experiments with truth' highlights the significance of
| reflection on life. Mahatma Gandhi was not only able to map his
| weaknesses and vulnerabilities through the examination but was
| also able to question his prejudices and understand his strength
| as a human being._
|
| https://www.google.com/books/edition/Finding_Fran/8CZr_HxkKs...
|
| _To both calm and stimulate the self, Gurdjieff devised two main
| practices: a series of movements and an exercise called "self-
| observation." Some of the movements draw from yoga and ancient
| Sufi dances and are strenuous, while others, more controlled,
| resemble tai chi. "Self-observation" involves focusing all one's
| awareness throughout the day on one's thoughts, emotions, facial
| expressions, and body movements. The goal is to figure out the
| drives, as well as the contradictions, between the mental
| centers, in order to pull them together into some sort of
| harmony. Then one is on the way to finding the elusive spiritual
| center in the self that remains uninfluenced by social
| conditioning._
|
| Osho
|
| _Man lives like a robot: mechanically efficient, but with no
| awareness. Hence the whole problem! There are so many problems
| man has to face, but they are all by-products of his sleep. So
| the first thing to be understood is what this sleep consists in
| -- because Zen is an effort to become alert and awake._
|
| Steve Jobs
|
| _Creativity is just connecting things. When you ask creative
| people how they did something, they feel a little guilty because
| they didn 't really do it, they just saw something. It seemed
| obvious to them after a while. That's because they were able to
| connect experiences they've had and synthesize new things. And
| the reason they were able to do that was that they've had more
| experiences or they have thought more about their experiences
| than other people._
| raman162 wrote:
| I think the most important advice in this article is "Be aware of
| your current mental state". This goes a long way with not just
| being productive but being aware of how to address any emotional
| state. The easiest way I've been able to do this is just to
| journal every-time I find myself going distracted.
| azundo wrote:
| I'd go one step further and say that the article's value is
| also in pointing out that being aware takes practice, you can't
| just flip a switch and decide to start being aware of your
| current mental state. You need to pay attention many times to
| start to connect the dots and be able to recognize the state
| you're in and the best way to respond.
| polishdude20 wrote:
| I've always thought of discipline as a sort of negotiation
| between the co trolling mind and the commanding mind. To succeed
| in accomplishing your goals, the commanding mind should learn how
| the controlling mind works. And that includes knowing what states
| the controlling mind is in.
| awb wrote:
| In the same vein, here's a fun illustrated guide to
| procrastination (and fixing it) by Tim Urban:
|
| https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrasti...
|
| And accompanying TED Talk: https://youtu.be/arj7oStGLkU
| reddit_clone wrote:
| That is so true it is not even funny.
|
| But the essay(s) don't mention ADHD at all. Is that intentional
| ?
|
| May be some dopomine deprived people don't even have a choice
| other than to embrace the monkey :-(
| serverlessmom wrote:
| Over time I have definitely come to see my ADHD as a blessing
| and a curse. I feel really lucky that I responded so well to
| medication, though sometimes I still feel so scattered I lack
| total enjoyment with whatever projects I work on.
|
| So when I really need my monkey to to take the back seat for
| a while I can use medication.
| reactspa wrote:
| I had the same 50 tabs open on Chrome for about a year. Just
| articles and videos that I was supposed to skim.
|
| They were important enough that I couldn't close them without
| skimming. But for some reason, sitting at my home desk, I just
| couldn't skim them.
|
| Then I started going through them while laying in bed trying to
| get to sleep. Cleaned them out in 3 nights.
|
| Not sure if this is the same thing the author is talking about,
| but it's something.
| [deleted]
| jfarmer wrote:
| "The great thing, then, in all education, is to make our nervous
| system our ally instead of our enemy. It is to fund and
| capitalize our acquisitions, and live at ease upon the interest
| of the fund."
|
| -- William James, The Principles of Psychology (1890)
| ozzythecat wrote:
| > The goal is to have moments of clarity where you're able to see
| "ah that's what's going on in my mind right now".
|
| I think this is valuable advice, and it applies not only in this
| productivity context but in any day to day situation.
|
| I feel worked up, angry, disappointed with those around me in
| certain situations. Whereas 5 years ago, I might get worked up
| and complain about all of it to my manager, I've learned to
| recognize my own emotional state. I feel X because of Y reasons.
|
| In 30 minutes after I've had a snack or maybe just a glass of
| water, I'll feel significantly better and will want to take back
| anything I say now. Not because I'm wrong or that what someone
| did or didn't do is actually right, but because I need to control
| my emotion and how I respond. There's a correct way to approach
| the problem.
| nojito wrote:
| That's a concept called Flow researched heavily by Mihaly
| Csikszentmihalyi
|
| I highly recommend checking out his works to get through these
| fluffy blog posts into what the actual research says.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W94FE6/
| andrewzah wrote:
| Flow is completely, totally different. GP is discussing self-
| reflection and learning to be mindful of oneself and one's
| surroundings - which is basically meditation.
| tailspin2019 wrote:
| Not sure it's quite the same thing. I think it's closer to a
| state of mindfulness than flow.
|
| In a flow state you are, by definition, fully absorbed in an
| activity and are not necessarily very "self aware" in this
| kind of way.
| pasquinelli wrote:
| if i'm not mistaken, that total absorbtion would be
| referred to as one-act samadhi in a buddhist conception.
| sAbakumoff wrote:
| the total absorption could be referred to as one of
| dhyanas
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhy%C4%81na_in_Buddhism
|
| Experiencing dhyana is possible without achieving
| samadhi, but it is very unstable
|
| Csikszentmihalyi flow state implies that one is involved
| in some activity, but in dhyanas you don't need to do
| anything.
| jsyolo wrote:
| _but because I need to control my emotion and how I respond._
|
| You discovered one the benefits of meditation.
| madmod wrote:
| This sounds like good advice but the writer clearly has a lot
| more flexibility in their schedule than the average person.
| titanomachy wrote:
| The average childless software engineer who works from home has
| a fair bit of flexibility in how they use their time.
| kkoncevicius wrote:
| Finally, something new in this space that I haven't heard of or
| read before. Thank you for sharing.
| cypherpunks01 wrote:
| Understanding the Monkey Mind with Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche
| (Tibetan teacher and master of the Karma Kagyu and Nyingma
| lineages of Tibetan Buddhism)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-JiQubfMPg
| danhab99 wrote:
| All I ever hear about this Zig is how much harder everything is.
| What's the point of Zig? What does it do better?
| all2 wrote:
| Uhhh, wrong thread? I think you might be meaning to be over
| here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29965239
| tandr wrote:
| a bit meta: it is actually kind of funny how their questions
| are actually quite fitting into the discussions going here...
| agumonkey wrote:
| https://archive.is/AyTbf
|
| Doesn't display on my phone. Well done meta master.
| zackmorris wrote:
| I had an unusual experience this weekend while I was sick. After
| laying around for 2 days with brain fog, I woke up early Sunday
| morning and watched TV, checked social media, etc, but was sick
| of consuming information and had the strangest feeling that I
| wanted to work on something productive but my body aches wouldn't
| let me concentrate. I also felt like.. playing video games? I
| haven't had the urge to play video games since my first semester
| of college in 1995 before I discovered partying and dating.
|
| I was bored.
|
| It finally hit me that I haven't been bored in over 25 years.
| I've been hopeless, exhausted, overworked, financially destitute,
| depressed, burned out, lost in countless ways. But never bored.
|
| Now, I meditate often, I've learned a great deal about the higher
| self on neurodivergent TikTok, and I'm mindful of my contribution
| in service to others. But I can't really emphasize enough how
| much this shook me. I'm still processing it.
|
| I wonder if getting life goals done could be as simple as carving
| out large blocks of time where you aren't allowed to work on
| them. I don't mean filling the time with something else like work
| or other obligations. But literal you-time, with a rule that you
| can't exert yourself in any way or you'll risk relapsing into
| nonprogress. This is more like transmuting one form of attentive
| energy (negative) into another (positive) by dwelling on the
| opposite thing than you're used to.
|
| For example, I perceive every stoplight as being red. Since I
| started commuting a half hour to work a few days per week, I've
| been bringing coffee. Now I find that I never get a chance to
| drink it, because every light is green.
| abledon wrote:
| you may like the youtube channel "HealthyGamerGG", its the
| intersection of gaming and meditation/psychology
| serverlessmom wrote:
| Thank you for sharing your experience. I find that it mirrors
| my own in many ways. I especially relate to the idea that life
| goals are accomplished when we dedicate time to ourselves and
| are adapt to being more flexible with the patterns in which our
| minds move. I also have learned over time that through the use
| of caffeine, a beer, or having a smoke I can help shift my mind
| into other modes. The same goes with exercise and meditation or
| sitting down to take a break for five minutes and be mindful
| about where my mind is at and what I need to do for myself
| versus others.
| brimble wrote:
| On rare occasions, I'm left with both wife and kids out of the
| house for a few days. Just about every time I lose the first
| (non-work) day entirely to video games. Then the next day I'm
| just... done with games for a good long while, and start doing
| productive things _because I want to_. It 's like I have a
| fucking-around-uselessly tank that's never full (near-empty, in
| fact) usually, so most of my free time goes to worthless
| activities like games or bad TV or--ahem--certain websites of
| dubious value, but as soon as I'm allowed to fill it up, I
| don't need to "add more" for a while. I was _very_ surprised
| the first time this happened, because I fully intended to waste
| _all_ of the time, but when it happened I simply did not want
| to. Same thing happened the next time. Seems to just be how I
| operate, which kinda sucks because 360+ days per year that
| "tank" is both very demanding of time, and yet unsatisfied.
|
| Relatedly, I think the worst thing about work is that it's the
| same shit day after day, week after week, month after month.
| Left to my own devices I would still write code--but, like,
| hyper-focused, a few scattered weeks per year, and in between
| I'd probably hardly touch a keyboard. It becomes a draining
| grind when that's _all_ you do, with only infrequent and never-
| long-enough breaks. Keyboard and screen. Again. And again
| tomorrow. Indefinitely. Ugh.
| paulryanrogers wrote:
| Try fixing up a project house. It's amazing how quickly once
| beautiful properties can get run down without maintenance.
| And the hundreds of hours you can lose trying to undo the
| damage.
| mlac wrote:
| And the hundreds of hours of YouTube videos learning about
| tools and techniques to fix the house.
| hanoz wrote:
| That does sound really appealing, but, as is the case for
| increasingly more of us these days, it really takes the
| edge off when your landlord is the ultimate beneficiary.
| WaitWaitWha wrote:
| > I wonder if getting life goals done could be as simple as
| carving out large blocks of time where you aren't allowed to
| work on them. I don't mean filling the time with something else
| like work or other obligations. But literal you-time, with a
| rule that you can't exert yourself in any way or you'll risk
| relapsing into nonprogress. This is more like transmuting one
| form of attentive energy (negative) into another (positive) by
| dwelling on the opposite thing than you're used to.
|
| So, like the day of rest, like Sabbath?
| javajosh wrote:
| Not every group just does nothing on the sabbath. Orthodox
| Jews traditionally spend the day studying (and arguing)
| Torah. (But I'm not really sure - can you opt out of the
| Torah-wrangling and just take a walk on the beach?)
| [deleted]
| Tim25659 wrote:
| When I am stressed out monkey mind will get stronger and stronger
| I will be out of control..
| godDLL wrote:
| I put my monkey in a cage.
|
| I went around and logged the things I happen to be doing in a
| spreadsheet for three weeks.
|
| Assuming those are mostly the things I'll be doing going
| forward I've categorized them into action-cards. Those have
| groupings by space (home, out, job) and time (night, noon,
| morning).
|
| One card is titled BURN. If you play that card you can do
| whatever for 25 minutes, but you can't play two in a row. I set
| a timer.
|
| Then I have to choose a card to play, from the things I
| actually do.
|
| Set a timer. When that's up choose a card again.
|
| There is a card called SLEEP, it has a checklist. Similarly
| EAT/COOK has both instructions and time limits.
|
| I ended up with more than 15 but less than 30 cards. And the
| single point of failure is in set-timer to choose card loop.
| This goes away after about 20 days where it becomes a habit.
|
| There was another point of failure, but now there is a CALLS
| card that is limited to two times a day, and the phone is
| otherwise offline. Battery life is 5x.
|
| Contentness is 1.0
|
| Try it.
| brimble wrote:
| At first I was like "but with those rules you could play BURN
| every other card, and that's not good" then I realized that
| if I'd only wasted _half_ of an average waking day for the
| last couple decades, I 'd probably be god-emperor of
| humanity.
|
| This does seem quite a bit like the Pomodoro method. Was that
| an inspiration? Did you try it and it didn't work? If so, why
| do you think that is?
| serverlessmom wrote:
| This is a really interesting technique! I'm happy this is
| working so well for you. Would make an interesting app though
| I suppose that would put you back on your phone.
| fizzbar wrote:
| thank you for sharing such a detailed and simple workflow!
| yummy_box wrote:
| Thanks OP, I feel like I have been doing what you describe
| without noticing , you articulated it pretty well. Thanks again,
| and good luck.
| DwnVoteHoneyPot wrote:
| I enjoyed the article, but I disagree. Back in the day, the
| Getting Things Done book said to organise tasks by energy level.
| That does make things easier; however, easy to procrastinate by
| saying I'll do it later when I have energy.
|
| I have taken to the more disciplined, priortized approach pushed
| by the likes of Arnold Schwarzenegger/Jocko Willink/David
| Goggins... the items that are a priorty or important get done
| first. Hammer through the first 2-4 hours, then you can have
| flexibility in the rest of the day. Even if you're not feeling
| it, go through the motions, make it a habit to make it easier.
| dasil003 wrote:
| I tend to think all of this is extremely personal and the
| system is mostly window-dressing. If you are able to focus on
| work which is engaging and useful (by whatever measure you
| choose) regularly, over time you will get good results.
|
| Different kinds of systems like habit-building, reminders or
| GTD can help; as can cutting yourself some slack and making
| room for inspiration to find you without obsessing over
| productivity. But ultimately you either do things you are proud
| of or not, and any system or reflection you put on top of
| amounts to rationalization. If that helps then more power to
| you, but don't lose sight of the actual work.
| kache_ wrote:
| I disagree that programming isn't done well in robot mode. Lots
| of things like test coverage & braindead text editing doesn't
| require analytical thinking.
|
| Hell, analytical thinking is overrated. Just pick a direction and
| go!
| PeterWhittaker wrote:
| Another "yup", with personal anecdata from this weekend. Was
| feeling seriously underpowered on Saturday, so it was a good
| day to make some drudge changes to code, nothing that could be
| automated easily (mostly one offs and edge cases, sadly). It
| was very mechanical and needed doing. Perfect for Saturday
| Zombie Me.
|
| Had something similar during my biweekly management and product
| meetings today; updates to not-quite-every syslog call where
| there was a tiny bit of judgement in deciding whether to make
| the update and a tiny bit of judgement in the making itself (a
| few vim macros could have sped that last part up a little, but
| that would almost have been too effortful).
|
| Perfect drudge work I could do with 1/2 to 3/4 of an ear tuned
| in to what others were saying, not so difficult/deep that I
| couldn't rouse myself and comment when necessary.
| jakobgreenfeld wrote:
| Agreed. There are definitely programming tasks that work really
| well in Robot mode.
| [deleted]
| bitexploder wrote:
| Cal Newport essentially calls this "Shallow" vs. "Deep" work
| and I think it is a more useful sorting practice of chores for
| me. I know I can intensely focus only so many hours in a day.
| The rest of my day is structured around that notion. That deep
| work, every day, is sacred. Shallow work happens around my
| scheduled, uninterrupted deep work blocks. Shallow work is
| everything else. While it is helpful to let the sub-conscious
| dictate what sort of work goes on to a degree, I have found you
| can also steer the ship in the direction you want with good
| habits. It takes some time and scheduling discipline, but
| ultimately it has allowed me to be more productive.
|
| Many programming tasks, refactorings, and documentation
| writings are shallow work. Much of planning and preparing for
| deep work is shallow work in programming. Learning how to
| optimize the deep focus time is really helpful. Grease the
| gears, prime the pump, etc. etc.
|
| There is wisdom in acknowledging a particular mental state and
| understanding it, but it is also wise to know how to guide your
| mind to the state you want when you can best use it based on
| your schedule and other factors. There is a lot of push and
| pull here, but discipline in habits will let you control the
| monkey mind, as the author calls it, in my experience. Though I
| think of my "me" as a monkey and the rest of it as an elephant
| to properly put it in scale (thanks Joscha Bach + Lex Fridman).
| The monkey tries its best to guide the elephant to the right
| place :)
| serverlessmom wrote:
| This is a really powerful concept and something I wish we
| taught to new comers to the computer science track and in web
| development bootcamps. Of course, it is helpful advice for
| anyone too :).
|
| The attitude that makes much of the foundation of the culture
| of the technology industry, that constant push of "produce
| produce produce" makes it hard for web developers to step
| back from their work and take the time to know themselves and
| their processes. I often find new students stuck in shallow
| work mode because they can't stop thinking about the deadline
| and "get it done" supercedes the ability to "learn it well".
| tailspin2019 wrote:
| Yep, "programming" covers such a broad range of tasks... from
| mindless drudgery to very high-level deep analytical work!
| amriksohata wrote:
| And the best way to get yourself into a state of mind for self
| observation according to Hindu sages?
|
| Pranayam (yoga) or breathing and focussing
| [deleted]
| mesaframe wrote:
| Whatever the author mentions is part of meditation. But observing
| the mind requires concentration too otherwise it will wander away
| with thoughts.
|
| Anyway, if you feel connected with such kind of things then I'll
| heavily recommend to do meditation.
| godDLL wrote:
| Concentration is a loaded word. It is not black and white, but
| feels like you're talking about a value that goes from zero to
| one possibly? How do you think about it?
|
| I came to think of it in terms of attention. In a model where
| your awareness of time, or of change is conditional on shifting
| your spotlight of attention it can be defined usefully, I
| think.
|
| So, in such a model your concentration is conditional on your
| paying attention to where your awareness is not pointed. To the
| interplay of things outside your spotlight of awareness.
|
| The processes that are you but outside of the seat of your
| awareness already have workable models for all of that. They
| have good guesses. Your sensory will enrich those guesses and
| flow them into your reality as givens.
|
| If you think of it like that there is a clear difference
| between paying attention to something, and expanding your
| perception of the present moment by concentration.
|
| Sometimes I hear people use the c-word to describe
| uninterrupted time dedicated to a task. That is to say focus.
| Exclusionary attention.
|
| How do you think about it?
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