[HN Gopher] Ethnographic research on Dynamicland
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Ethnographic research on Dynamicland
Author : heystefan
Score : 68 points
Date : 2022-01-22 15:40 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.christophlabacher.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.christophlabacher.com)
| spdegabrielle wrote:
| I would be nice it it delivered something. Such a shame.
| miki123211 wrote:
| The problem I see with Dynamicland and similar ideas is that the
| internet exists now, and there's no going back. A physical, room-
| sized computer system might have worked in the early 90s, but not
| any more. Collaborating asynchronously with people across the
| world is something we do regularly now, and Dynamicland doesn't
| lend itself well to such collaboration.
|
| The beauty of computers is that information is not tied to any
| physical manifestation. Several people can work on a document,
| one using the screen of their phone in Palo Alto, another using a
| braille display in Puerto Rico and yet another using voice
| control in Beijing, all at the same time. Once one person updates
| their representation of the document, all the other
| representations follow. The document isn't inherently pixels or
| sound waves or Braille dots, those are merely manifestations of
| some underlying, more fundamental structure that exists purely in
| the digital realm.
|
| Dynamicland takes this flexibility away. Once we start keeping
| code in binders in a desk, those binders effectively become the
| code, every other representation must ultimately be derived from
| the contents of those binders. More importantly, there's no way
| to automatically reflect the manipulations made to those
| alternate representations on the paper contained in the binders.
| This basically undoes everything the internet has given us,
| making technology much more elitist and harder to access.
| pavlov wrote:
| Personally I'm desperate for anything that would let the
| digital creative process escape the confines of the screen and
| engage my body more. It has become increasingly painful to sit
| in front of a screen for yet another repetitive, static round
| of manipulating those purely digital structures through the
| extremely limited affordances of keyboard and cursor control.
|
| I've tried the UI options that are available today for a
| reasonable price: stylus and touchscreen like the MS Surface,
| VR like the Oculus Quest. Neither solves much for me, perhaps
| because of lack of applications.
|
| If Dynamicland could end up producing something that makes my
| private work experience tangibly better, I'd be happy to accept
| that the trade-off is that collaboration becomes more
| difficult. (I don't do realtime collaboration today anyway,
| even though it's theoretically possible.)
| jayd16 wrote:
| I don't know... Why not just look at the binder as a type of
| input and display? Surely the content could be shared and
| reproduced elsewhere.
| scroot wrote:
| The central question for Dynamicland is one of "media for
| thought," and therefore the specifics of this or that
| programming language (or "code") can't be that important.
|
| What is important, however, is taking a more holistic approach
| to understanding how people think and how media can help in
| that process. People actually think with their whole bodies.
| There is a kinesthetic component to thinking that is important.
| Computing today -- be it the desktop or the tablet -- has given
| us tunnel vision in a sense.
| Glench wrote:
| > The beauty of computers is that information is not tied to
| any physical manifestation.
|
| I wonder, can you articulate any reasons why this might
| actually be harmful?
|
| Neil Postman: Five Things We Need to Know About Technological
| Change: https://student.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~cs492/papers/neil-
| postman--...
| crispyambulance wrote:
| > [...] More importantly, there's no way to automatically
| reflect the manipulations made to those alternate
| representations on the paper contained in the binders. This
| basically undoes everything the internet has given us, making
| technology much more elitist and harder to access.
|
| I think that "automatically reflecting the manipulations made
| to alternate representations" is _exactly_ a core intention of
| DynamicLand. They 're very much all about bringing computer
| interaction seamlessly into the intimate physical workspaces of
| humans.
|
| Admittedly, in the very few clips and info we've seen, this
| isn't particularly dramatic. On the surface it's sort of like
| an _inverted_ augmented-reality experience where the computer
| asserts itself in physical space. Whereas in regular AR, we
| assert ourselves in cyberspace. The project of DynamicLand,
| IMHO, has a much larger scope than regular AR. Will it be
| successful? -\\_(tsu)_ /-
|
| I am glad, however, that at least someone is trying this. I do
| hope that Brett Victor resumes his amazing lectures. They were
| really inspiring (this one in particular is a classic:
| https://youtu.be/8pTEmbeENF4).
| Pulcinella wrote:
| Well it's nice to get some insight into Dynamicland, even if it's
| not very flattering.
|
| I do wonder if the project is still under active development. I
| imagine it's very frustrating to not have much to show after more
| than half a decade of development.
| skadamat wrote:
| > I do wonder if the project is still under active development.
|
| They've publicly acknowledged that they're still working but
| have been quiet.
|
| > I imagine it's very frustrating to not have much to show
| after more than half a decade of development.
|
| Yes and No. I think, rightly so, they are concerned about pre-
| mature commercialization. Tech transfer in HCI-like domains can
| often be wrought with issues:
|
| "The Dynamic Medium Group's vision is rooted in the idea that
| the computer revolution of the '70s and early '80s was cut
| short, primarily by premature commercialization. While the
| computer as a medium was still unfolding its potential, and way
| before it could do so entirely, it was solidified into
| commercial products, thereby stifling its free growth. Once
| corporations had built their businesses on the ideas developed
| so far, they were only interested in incremental change that
| could easily be integrated into the products, rather than
| revolutionary new ideas.
|
| Because of this cautionary tale and to avoid repeating history,
| the group is wary when it comes to public attention and
| deliberately reserved in what it shares. "
|
| However, I _do_ think that getting ongoing feedback &
| recognition of impact is important even in long-term research
| efforts. This was hinted at in Glen's note on why he left
| Dynamicland: http://glench.com/WhyIQuitTechAndBecameATherapist/
|
| The saddest observation through all this is ... why don't
| academia or corporate research labs do this type of long-term,
| personal computing focused research anymore? It's never been
| easier to build a computer or an operating system, but nobody
| has the appetite for it anymore. Maybe people feel that
| operating systems and computers in their current form are here
| to stay forever. Maybe the most we can do is port things
| clumsily to VR or AR.
| Glench wrote:
| Hello it's me Glench, from the note.
|
| I think you reading into the workings of Dynamicland from my
| note is a little misguided. I made that note to talk about my
| own personal needs, not about how the lab worked.
|
| Even though my personal interest no longer lies in pursuing
| it, Dynamicland to me remains the most visionary, furthest-
| thinking research on human-computer interaction that exists
| today. It really is a research project with a 100+ year
| vision.
| skadamat wrote:
| Fair enough -- my mistake then. I would edit / delete if I
| still could but I think HN has a edit timeout
| Glench wrote:
| No worries!
| ipsum2 wrote:
| on Glen's note: A few paragraphs in, I got a sense that
| person's sudden revelation and change in career was due to
| psychedelics. Searched for "LSD" ah, there it is. "In several
| sessions over months I took LSD alone in my house with an
| eyeshade on listening to music." There seems to be common
| writing patterns from people who've used psychedelics
| heavily.
| heystefan wrote:
| Bret Victor: "Maybe it takes a hundred years. It was a hundred
| years from the invention of the printing press to books being
| part of the general culture."
|
| From a different article:
| https://tashian.com/articles/dynamicland/
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