[HN Gopher] Charm - tools to make the command line glamorous
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Charm - tools to make the command line glamorous
Author : hillcrestenigma
Score : 438 points
Date : 2022-01-23 17:46 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (charm.sh)
(TXT) w3m dump (charm.sh)
| csharpminor wrote:
| I love CLI tools, and I think we're just scratching the surface
| of what's possible. It's really neat to dig into the UI
| components that charm has available.
|
| It feels as though many GUI-based web / chromium applications are
| collapsing under their own weight. They're slow and
| discoverability is bad. Maybe worst of all they're always
| distracting me with a popup / modal / alert that's unrelated to
| my current task.
|
| A lot of these issues go away in a CLI, and I think there's a
| back-to-basics movement forming that could extend beyond the HN
| crowd.
| jayniz wrote:
| Glamorous? More like glorious!
| z3t4 wrote:
| I wonder if the vt-100 terminal emulator will be used to surf the
| next "web"... Instead of web sites, the nerds will run their own
| ssh servers, then you can run programs and read files on their
| "web site" (ssh shell). This has many advantages over the current
| web, for example built in user management - you can allow anyone
| access by their public ssh key. Now you say what about graphics ?
| Text only might be a break from the ad ridden web today, but you
| could also ssh -X to run GUI apps.
| rossmohax wrote:
| Reminds me of BBS.
| [deleted]
| maxwell_xander wrote:
| This is what I come to HN to see - what a masterful and cool
| project. I'm literally dropping my plans today to make a project
| using this.
| u-rate wrote:
| These tools make me want to build command line tools!
| dvtrn wrote:
| These apps look wonderful, only taking a casual glance at the
| repo, has anyone used, or would one recommend using Skate
| (https://github.com/charmbracelet/skate) as a personal PW manager
| or even keychain?
| thoughtpalette wrote:
| Also curious on how/what that would look like.
| simooooo wrote:
| tcldr wrote:
| No idea if the tools are any good, but I absolutely love your
| branding. Opinionated, but perfect for the demographic.
| Lio wrote:
| What is the demographic you think this is perfect for?
|
| Just curious who this appeals to. It's not for me but that's OK
| I like opinionated things and recognised that that this is
| aimed at someone who probably will love it.
| angio wrote:
| /r/unixporn users
| bostonsre wrote:
| Perfect is a strong word, but it definitely seems to target a
| younger dev demographic and more specifically, maybe one that
| likes Japanese style animated cartoons.
| hhh wrote:
| Not the parent, but I find it wonderful. The spring library
| is one I love.
|
| There's some _charm_ to spending the time to challenge
| preconceived notions of CLI output. I find something very
| beautiful about picking up a new tool and being surprised by
| the output in a way that piques your curiosity or brings a
| smile.
|
| It's the greatest form of learning to be able to just play.
| Should you be implementing these into your enterprise
| internal tool to monitor your platforms support tooling?
| Probably not.
| lowercased wrote:
| Perhaps it's developers who are looking for some validation
| from and engagement with their eight year old daughters?
| [deleted]
| amelius wrote:
| https://blog.prototypr.io/are-we-designing-for-children-an-a...
| zepto wrote:
| I am the demographic in that I love using the command line and
| want to see it get modernized.
|
| I thought the design was terrible. Noisy and pointless and
| frankly hard to see what is on offer.
|
| It's _pretty and stylish_ but absolutely awful if you care
| about the content, and that makes me worry that the components
| themselves will be similar.
| skavi wrote:
| `ssh git.charm.sh` is maybe more your style?
| zepto wrote:
| Considerably better
| majkinetor wrote:
| I am of the same opinion. I closed it although CLI screens
| look nice, as I couldn't stand the arbitrary attention
| stealing noises all around.
| bostonsre wrote:
| Maybe it's aimed at a younger demographic and not just all
| devs that use cli tools. The design doesn't appeal to me but
| the several animated examples and quick blurbs about
| functionality seemed to showcase what was on offer pretty
| well.
| zepto wrote:
| Do you know what language the libraries are written for?
| [deleted]
| achileas wrote:
| From the first line of the readme of the first listed
| lib:
|
| > The fun, functional and stateful way to build terminal
| apps. A Go framework based on The Elm Architecture.
| halfdaft wrote:
| same, breath of fresh air
| ncpa-cpl wrote:
| I really liked their web design.
| Shared404 wrote:
| Side note on web design: uBlock blocked _nothing_. Usually
| when a page that looks like this comes up, I notice 10 's to
| 100's of blocked requests.
|
| On top of that, I disabled JS out of curiosity, and the site
| worked completely fine, sans expected failures (the only
| thing that stopped working was the little videos by the
| libraries)!
|
| I think this is the first site with this level of "Design"
| (Which I usually hate, but they did a really good job of here
| here) where both of these things are true.
| ncpa-cpl wrote:
| Great observation. I had opened it on my old mobile browser
| and it loaded super fast too!
| Shared404 wrote:
| I feel kinda compelled to run a torture test now.
|
| Just tried w3m on desktop and it was decent, anyone have
| IE sitting around?
| ncpa-cpl wrote:
| I have a celeron pc with xp nearby!
| seanw444 wrote:
| Agree. I'm generally a fan of the more simplistic websites
| (sometimes that means them not looking modern at all), but
| they did a fantastic job here.
| wpietri wrote:
| Could you say a bit more about your demographic and what you
| like about it?
|
| It's definitely not for me, and I'm entirely ok with that.
| But I'm really curious about who it works for.
| camgunz wrote:
| I love Charm; doing `ssh git.charm.sh` is a lot of fun and really
| sparks the imagination about SSH apps. They also have usable
| solutions for auth and storage, which like, if you're thinking of
| writing something like this are the first things you'd start
| reaching for. They also work hard to enable you to run all your
| own services, so you don't rely on the Charm cloud for
| everything. Definitely a good model for future punk projects IMO.
| hillcrestenigma wrote:
| It really does. I wonder if these SSH applications can be
| linked and used like web applications where it's delivered to
| the end-user over the network with terminal + SSH being used as
| a browser. The only problem for these applications (and
| Charmbracelet) would be that there isn't much audience that
| could use these.
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| ttyd is a nice little web terminal:
| https://github.com/tsl0922/ttyd Just a small, fast, low fuss
| C-based executable.
|
| wetty is another good option if you want to run a nodejs
| server: https://github.com/butlerx/wetty
|
| Both use xterm.js for the client terminal, which is these
| days the only game in town for a web terminal (it's what VS
| code and many other electron apps use too). It's quite good.
|
| Do be aware though that running a web-accessible terminal is
| a huge security headache. You're opening up a websocket to
| effectively allow commands and code to run on your server.
| Pay attention to security and authentication options any web
| terminal gives you, and use them. Most are not very secure
| out of the box or just following their readme examples.
|
| And watch out as many rootkits use web terminals as payloads
| so smart organizations and security policies will be looking
| for them or their traffic and you might get a very concerned
| IT person asking you questions if you use these on a network
| or machine you don't control.
| [deleted]
| colecut wrote:
| Good point on the small target audience.. It really is a
| shame because this is a great looking project.
|
| I think I should write a web app that handles the SHH
| connection on the backend and renders the SHH app into HTML
| so that they can be enjoyed by the masses.
|
| =)
| Shared404 wrote:
| If you do this, please mention that using a proper terminal
| + ssh will work better(This is based on my understanding of
| technologies used, but I could be wrong), and you may be
| responsible for a lot of people taking their first steps
| into knowing computers a lot better!
| cdiamand wrote:
| Looks cool! Are there any security risks posed by ssh'ing into
| an unknown server?
| matthewaveryusa wrote:
| You potentially send all your key IDs (ie public keys) your
| agent has. there are command line options to force your ssh
| not to use your agent in which case, barred any bugs in the
| ssh client, it's like browsing to a domain in your browser.
| divbzero wrote:
| The dynamic intuitive interface provided by `ssh git.charm.sh`
| is a wonderful example of how text-based user interfaces do not
| need to be limited to REPL. I wonder if there is space for a
| new text-based web browser that adopts some of the design
| features showcased by Charm.
| digisign wrote:
| A Gemini client might benefit:
|
| https://gemini.circumlunar.space/
| viraptor wrote:
| Aren't Gemini pages static-by-design? It would be hard to
| do something really interactive / state-preserving with
| them if I'm not mistaken.
| capableweb wrote:
| > I wonder if there is space for a new text-based web browser
| that adopts some of the design features showcased by Charm
|
| Not sure if you're aware, but older protocols are still
| around to be used for this use case, and Gopher has even had
| a bit of a resurgence as of late
| enriquto wrote:
| I'm at the opposite end of the cli taste spectrum (my PS1 is a
| single character), but I love this site.
| quasarj wrote:
| Do you just have a super good memory, remembering where you are
| all the time? lol
| bmitc wrote:
| Damn. I am generally not a fan of command line applications, but
| these libraries look amazing. I'm definitely going to be checking
| out Bubble Tea.
|
| And the design of everything is really great. It's unique but not
| outlandish. Just clean, simple, and cute. Really impressive stuff
| here.
| maaslalani wrote:
| I've been using Charm tools and libraries for a while now, truly
| some of the coolest stuff I've ever experienced on the command
| line.
| aftergibson wrote:
| For a command line library, this site is really fun and well put
| together.
| kingcharles wrote:
| I upvoted for the web design...
| sdze wrote:
| Gross candy-store like website. I can not believe that the start
| page is nearly 14 MB big.
|
| And I still don't understand what they sell.
| brailsafe wrote:
| Really effective use of colour. I like the aesthetic
| catern wrote:
| This looks cool!
|
| But: These mostly aren't command line applications, they're
| mostly terminal applications. They're no more "command-line" than
| running "firefox" from your shell is "command-line".
|
| There's a big difference... a terminal application takes over
| your terminal and doesn't have all the usual advantages of
| command-line applications used from the shell, like history and
| easy scripting.
| hunter2_ wrote:
| Upon connecting to the demo, they seem to use TUI for what
| you're talking about and CLI for what you're not talking about.
| sva_ wrote:
| When you open the site on some mobile resolution, the ice cream
| cone looks like a pile of poo in the bottom left as the rest is
| cut out. Kind of funny considering the promise of a "glamorous
| cmd line".
| zmmmmm wrote:
| I love the general renaissance of terminal UI tools we are seeing
| in the last few years.
|
| I can't quite put my finger on what I like about it so much.
| Something to do with the simplicity and directness of these UIs,
| guaranteed optimised for efficient keyboard nav, widespread
| adoption of vim-like navigation keys, and the fact that they link
| directly with my terminal shell so I can stay entirely in a
| stream of thought while working through complex series of tasks
| that weave in and out of these apps and shell interactions.
|
| I do wish it was easier to select text from the terminal screen
| without using the mouse. It is supported in terminals to place
| text onto the system clipboard, but rarely implemented in most of
| these apps. It's the main reason my hands leave the keyboard.
| jck wrote:
| You can configure kitty to open the entire scrollback buffer in
| an editor or a pager(less/nvim etc).
|
| https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/719
| Syonyk wrote:
| > _I can 't quite put my finger on what I like about it so
| much._
|
| I can.
|
| Doesn't require a 1.5GB build directory to make a 500MB binary
| that uses 3GB of RAM to display a chat client/music player/etc.
| zkader wrote:
| Charm's libraries for the CLI are just awesome. I think these
| guys are really breathing new life into the CLI and make it look
| appealing for all kinds of applications. Chose their bubbletea
| library for a CLI file transfer tool
| (https://github.com/ZinoKader/portal) and found it a delight to
| work with. Super easy to make something that looks and works
| great.
| bgorman wrote:
| I looked at their UI library. How did we get to a place where
| "The elm architecture pairs nicely with Go".
| skavi wrote:
| Do you object to that idea?
| ncpa-cpl wrote:
| I liked their contact email: vt100@charm... :)
| eurasiantiger wrote:
| Everything there is worded so that sysadmins and devops kind of
| persons will love it. All the product names are cute and
| innocuous. This is a huge red flag and the entire operation is
| highly suspicious.
| tom_ wrote:
| Yup, it's that old classic again! Goes something like this:
|
| Step 1: Produce cutesy web site clearly aimed at a specific
| demographic
|
| Step 2: ???
|
| Step 3: ???
|
| I've seen it so many times now that I can't believe people
| are still falling for it.
| rr808 wrote:
| While we're on the subject (and from Rich the other day) is there
| a library to do pretty command line apps for Java?
| a-saleh wrote:
| , I like it, but I am not sure about diving into Golant again.
|
| Any way to use it in other languages?
|
| Or do I just keep poking at Rich[1] in Python?
|
| [1] https://rich.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
| nathias wrote:
| Wow, this is really cool.
| eurasiantiger wrote:
| This seems highly suspicious in light of recent supply chain
| attacks. Offering everyone a nice CLI experience, and so well
| branded and 1337 too.
|
| According to Crunchbase, the company has two employees and
| receives millions in funding.
|
| Something doesn't add up here.
| achileas wrote:
| More often than not, it's the Crunchbase DB. Especially for
| early companies it can be pretty out of date quickly. My
| current employer had its entry badly merged with a similar
| named company that wasn't even close to what we did, so we had
| the wrong description for over a year.
|
| Also it lists two employee profiles, but a size of 1-10. This
| is common too, again at my current employer we've got a
| headcount in the 20s but only 1 or 2 employee profiles on
| crunchbase. $3M is also not a massive seed round by any means,
| I've seen plenty of early startups with 2-4 employees raise
| $9M+.
| friend-monoid wrote:
| # Arch Linux (btw) yay -S glow
|
| Heh, nice take on the whole "I use Arch btw" meme.
|
| This is really cool.
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| What I don't understand is with the recent adaptation of GPU-
| accelerated terminals, why not create something that actually
| renders Markdown like you'd expect in the browser, but in the
| terminal? It would have to be significantly faster than the
| bloat of a typical browser, but just with limited features...
| like no JS engine.
| Noumenon72 wrote:
| Is this like, a framework for making command line apps, the way
| Spring is a framework for making web apps?
|
| Is Soft Serve for people who don't want to use GitHub?
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| > Is Soft Serve for people who don't want to use GitHub?
|
| There's no web UI for soft serve, it's strictly a command line
| and config driven git repo manager. It's more of a direct
| comparison to look at gitolite (also a script/CLI driven repo
| manager).
|
| If you're looking for a run your own web UI for git, check out
| gitea.
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(page generated 2022-01-23 23:00 UTC)