[HN Gopher] Nintendo Switch game cartridges taste offensively ba... ___________________________________________________________________ Nintendo Switch game cartridges taste offensively bad (2017) Author : tosh Score : 279 points Date : 2022-01-25 19:03 UTC (3 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.polygon.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.polygon.com) | tribby wrote: | another example of this kind of intentionality from nintendo is | the curve on top of SNES, which is there to discourage setting | drinks on top of it, unlike the NES before it | jonny_eh wrote: | The SNES is also top loaded (like the Famicom), so wouldn't | normally be a good drink surface. | addaon wrote: | This is the same chemical (denatonium benzoate) that's used in | fingernail-biting-prevention aids like nail polishes; it's very | bitter, but non-toxic. | w0mbat wrote: | My daughter was sucking her thumb even on the first ultrasound. | When she was a baby, thumb sucking was cute and she never | needed a pacifier. However as she got to be a toddler it became | a problem in terms of hygiene (her thumb was often not clean). | Plus her thumb was pushing her front teeth out of line, which | was affecting her speech. | | We pleaded with her to stop. | | We bribed her. | | We got special pretty thumb covers for her to wear at night. | She always pulled them off. | | Finally we got the special nail polish containing the bad taste | agent and put it on her thumbnails. One application was enough. | The first try tasted so bad it put her off thumb sucking for | life. It's been years now and she is cured. Thanks, denatonium | benzoate! | xen0 wrote: | If you own a Switch, I encourage you to drop whatever it is | you're doing and go lick one of the cartridges. | | You need to experience this. | progbits wrote: | Definitely second this. I have been downloading all my Switch | games but bought one cheap cartridge just to see what all the | craze was about. | | It did not disappoint, no matter how bitter you think it can | be, it is worse. The aftertaste lasts for a very long time and | rinsing your mouth makes little difference. | testplzignore wrote: | I just licked my $60 Super Mario Odyssey cart. I'm not tasting | it :( I am so disappointed... | testplzignore wrote: | Same for Metroid Dread. Maybe I'm missing a gene or | something. | pampa wrote: | Just licked mario + rabbids I got yesterday. Tastes ok. | jwineinger wrote: | I'm gonna avoid licking the cartridge I checked out from our | library. | llbeansandrice wrote: | I was unfortunately reminded this when swapping out game | cartridges on a flight once. I stuck one in my mouth a bit to | hold it while I messed with the carrying case and other cartridge | and had the awful bitter taste for the rest of the flight. | Hamuko wrote: | I haven't even put a cartridge in my mouth and I've still had | to experience it. I think I swapped out some cartridges, and a | moment later licked my finger for some reason. Turns out that | the agent lingers on your fingers after you handle the games. | mikestew wrote: | _...and had the awful bitter taste for the rest of the flight._ | | Thanks for saving my lunch by letting me know that it is not | just a momentary bit of unpleasantness, because I was about to | go grab one from the Switch case here at 11:46 in the morning | just to see how bad it is. | | EDIT: curiosity got the best of me. If I can eat a green | persimmon, I can handle a Nintendo cartridge. A little lick of | the sticker tells me not to put the whole thing in my mouth. | Lunch should be fine, though. :-) | kosievdmerwe wrote: | Just FYI if you actually want to taste it, the bitterness is | in the sticker, not the cartridge itself. | vel0city wrote: | I've got a pile of Switch cartridges next to me. They're | bitter all over. Trust me. | kosievdmerwe wrote: | Fair enough, I just remember that I couldn't figure out | the fuss until someone told me to lick the sticker. | vel0city wrote: | It could be that way on some of them, or maybe even the | earlier ones, but all the ones I've tested are nasty | tasting on the plastic as well. | [deleted] | arrrg wrote: | Eh, when I got a Switch last year I tried it out right away | (after reading such articles in the past) and if you just | give it a careful lick you will immediately notice it but | it's not as if it's lingering around forever. | azeirah wrote: | Oh maybe it depends per person but I'm the kind of person who | needs to know how bitter it is (like you!) | | And it lasted for maybe 30 seconds, maybe it's different if | you realllllyyy get into it but I wouldn't advise that | anyway. | spicybright wrote: | Can confirm, was about 30 seconds. It bound to my lips for | a bit but you can just lick that off. | | Article was not wrong about the taste. | pvaldes wrote: | Trivia. I ate green persimmons, but there is a trick. It | --must-- be a persimmon from the correct cultivar (or a | treated one). It doesn't worth it, but is perfectly doable. | Somebody trying the same in a common persimmon will suffer | the persimmoncalypse. | tialaramex wrote: | Yes. In the EU product "denatured alcohol" for most purposes is | likewise treated with the same agent. This replaces the | widespread use of methanol and similar products which are | poisonous (yes even if you call the product "meths" it probably | isn't methanol in the EU today). The rationale is that poisoning | people is not an appropriate reaction to attempted tax avoidance. | Alcohol is only "denatured" because booze is taxed, there's no | technical reason to use poison, and so the EU took the poison | out, for the same reason it doesn't execute or torture criminals. | 323 wrote: | Drinking this medical disinfectant denaturated alcohol has | become a meme in Romania, where very poor people drink it | because it's so cheap - $1.5 for 1L of 70% ABV (almost twice | Vodka strength which is about 40% ABV). | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdZuHPjJtgs&t=1825s | matheusmoreira wrote: | I've seen alcoholic patients try to drink alcohol 70% | antiseptic solutions in the emergency room. | RealityVoid wrote: | While Mona is a disinfectant, it _is_ ethanol, only the | production method differs, it's obtained through industrial | processes (or so it was explained to my by someone who worked | at some industrial alcohol synthesis factory) as opposed to | fermentation and distillation. Drinking methanol will fucking | blind or kill you, so... a bad idea overall. | | Interestingly a valid treatment for methanol poisoning is | ethanol: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_toxicity#Treatment | shmoe wrote: | If I remember it overloads the uptake of the methanol or | something along those lines. Crazy stuff. | andai wrote: | Very interesting. It's not the methanol that's toxic but | its metabolites, so the ethanol slows down the liver's | metabolism of methanol, stretching it out to the degree | that the metabolites do not reach an unsafe | concentration? | | Also, "The preferred antidote is fomepizole, with ethanol | used if this is not available." | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_toxicity#Treatment | | >Fomepizole is a competitive inhibitor of the enzyme | alcohol dehydrogenase, found in the liver. This enzyme | plays a key role in the metabolism of ethylene glycol, | and of methanol. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fomepizole | oblio wrote: | mitilicu' :-)) | 3np wrote: | Well, for Sweden there's the national monopoly, so denaturing | it means being able to sell it for private establishments like | hardware shops... And also not requiring an ID check and being | > 20yo to buy. | | The reasoning is public health. You can argue that it's not a | preferred solution but there's definitely more than tax to it. | cwkoss wrote: | Does this bitterant leave a residue when the alcohol | evaporates? That seems like one benefit of methanol vs | bitterant: all of the alcohol can still evaporate without | depositing bitterant as a side effect. | | Are there bitterants that evaporate similarly to alcohol but | are not toxic? | legulere wrote: | Here in Germany they add Butanone, which evaporates at very | similar temperatures as ethanol so it's very difficult to | purify the ethanol even with a lab setup. | [deleted] | arghwhat wrote: | We use isopropyl alcohol, which is not denatured, whenever | high purity is required. | dont__panic wrote: | Or in a pinch, 99% grain alcohol. | | Source: some friends make drinks with grain alcohol, and | then don't want it any more after they make those drinks | (gee, I wonder why?). Provides an essentially endless | supply of alcohol for cleaning purposes for me. | kunai wrote: | If you're using alcohol for cleaning 70% concentrations | are better as they actually kill and lyse pathogens at | that concentration, while 99% will just desiccate them, | allowing for reactivation when in a moist environment. | lstodd wrote: | My hands, from working with NF/USP Isopropyl alcohol tend | to disagree. It desiccates, defats, and generally kills | everything in sight. | kunai wrote: | Of course alcohol is a powerful solvent at any | concentration, but there are definitely studies[1] that | demonstrate 70% being a bit more effective at | disinfecting. | | [1]: https://www.webmd.com/first-aid/ss/rubbing-alcohol- | uses | morganvachon wrote: | That's always been the rule of thumb that I learned | growing up too. My dad kept 90% or stronger | concentrations for cleaning electrical contacts and other | industrial uses, and 70% for first aid and sanitizing, | because that's what each was made for. | 323 wrote: | The bitterent used is so powerful, the concentration is like | 0.01 ppm. So unless you are in a clean room, there will be | more dust from air which deposits. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatonium | chrisshroba wrote: | I'm sorry for my ignorance, but could someone give more context | on this? I don't understand what "denatured alcohol" is, how it | relates to tax avoidance, or what illegal use people are | finding for it? | vondur wrote: | Many countries levy a tax on alcohol in beverages. One way | around that is to put something in it that makes anyone who | drinks it sick. If you have an industrial process that can | use denatured alcohol, then you don't have to pay the alcohol | tax. | hoangdung123 wrote: | yeah same | wodenokoto wrote: | You tax alcohol for consumption but not for cleaning | products, like rubbing alcohol. | | Now you need to figure out a way to stop people from | consuming cleaning products. | xyzzyz wrote: | Rubbing alcohol is often isopropyl alcohol instead of | ethanol, which makes it even more toxic. | andai wrote: | More toxic than what? I assumed you meant than methanol | (which is added to ethanol-based cleaning products in the | Netherlands), but then I read this on the Wikipedia page | for isopropyl alcohol: | | >Isopropyl alcohol, via its metabolites, is somewhat more | toxic than ethanol, but considerably less toxic than | ethylene glycol or methanol. | | (Can't link link to the page due to mysterious iOS | bug...) | xyzzyz wrote: | Than ethanol (or denaturated ethanol). | LorenPechtel wrote: | All the rubbing alcohol around here is isopropyl alcohol, | not ethanol. | jonny_eh wrote: | Governments started adding poison to alcohol products that | are not meant for human consumption. They did this because | people would buy products like rubbing alcohol to produce | alcoholic drinks at home, since they were cheaper (e.g. | avoiding sales taxes). | greiskul wrote: | There are many uses for Ethanol like starting fires, some | stoves, not to mention industrial uses. Alcoholic beverages | are normally taxed with a 'sin tax' to discourage | consumption. Goverments realized that people could just drink | Ethanol that was sold for other uses, maybe mixed with stuff | to make cocktails, but that circumvents the 'sin tax' i.e. | tax avoidance. | | So some countries sell | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol, which is | alcohol with additives to discourage consumption. Some | countries limit themselves to just adding a foul taste and | smell, while some add poisonous substances to it to make it | toxic. | matheusmoreira wrote: | Alcohol is extremely useful for many things but some people | will drink it if they find it. So they add denatonium to it | to discourage that. Alcohols that are meant for people to | drink are taxed more heavily, so adding denatonium puts it | into a completely different category of product thereby | avoiding all those taxes. | southerntofu wrote: | > for the same reason it doesn't execute or torture criminals. | | I don't disagree with the idea, but to be precise torture and | execution at the hand of police and secret services is still a | thing in the EU. Especially since the covid lockdowns started | almost two years ago, it seems police murders have raised | significantly in some parts of the EU (like France). | bryanrasmussen wrote: | The best data I could find was the following | https://wp.unil.ch/space/files/2021/12/SPACE- | II_2020_Final_r... | | Council of Europe Annual Penal Statistics - SPACE II - 2020 - | so evidently 2021 not published yet. | | that is the full report maybe take this https://wp.unil.ch/sp | ace/files/2021/06/KeyFindings_Probation... which is the | keyfindings and a quicker read. | | Figure 3 on page 5 (in the keyfindings document) - Probation | and Prison population rates (per 100,000 inhabitants) on 31st | January 2020 shows the median prison population is 103 per | 100,000 | | where probation is concerned on 31st January 2020, there were | 1,512,765 probationers under the supervision of the 31 | probation agencies of the Council of Europe member states | which use the person as the counting unit for their stock of | probationers... | | which would lead to a probation population rate of 311 | probationers per 100,000 inhabitants. However, when the | European median value is estimated on the basis of the | population and the number of probationers of each country, it | corresponds to 149 probationers per 100,000 inhabitants | | in Table 3 on page 16 shows Composition of the probation and | prison populations on 31st January 2020 and mortality during | 2019. | | Is your suggestion that some part of these deaths are | killings by the EU authorities as a part of policy / | extrajudicial killing, or do you mean that there are other | deaths that are not in this table. If so - your sources for | this claim please? | jessriedel wrote: | Whether it's reasonable to use poison as a disincentive needs | to depend on how often people consume it, accidentally or | purposefully. If it's extremely rare, then this is a reasonable | use case, even if we don't think poisoning is a reasonable | punishment for tax avoidance (because, indeed, the poison is | not intended to be a punishment). | | Likewise, we put up physical barriers like metal posts and | concrete walls to dissuade drivers from crossing certain lines | even though it would obviously be outrageous to punish a driver | for crossing a lane line by smashing their car. As long as | drivers strike these very rarely, it's reasonable to use these | as disincentives. | | By all means, if we find disincentives (like bittering agents) | that are just as effective with even less risk, we should use | them. But claiming that poison is being used as a punishment | for tax avoidance is unjustified. | xg15 wrote: | > _If it 's extremely rare, then this is a reasonable use | case_ | | You never actually gave a reason for that assertion. | | > _Whether it 's reasonable to use poison as a disincentive | ..._ > _(because, indeed, the poison is not intended to be a | punishment)_ | | What is the difference between "disincentive" and | "punishment" here? | | > "Likewise, we put up physical barriers* | | So, would you be OK with replacing the physical barriers | with, say, spikes that would tear up a car's tires and | instantly cause an accident, should the car try to cross the | line? Just to make the disincentive more effective? | avianlyric wrote: | Your situations are not comparable. It's impossible for a | human to tell the difference between methanol and ethanol | using our readily available senses. Once the methylated | spirit is removed from its container there's nothing to warn | someone the alcohol is poison that will probably intoxicate, | then kill or blind them. Methylated sprits substantially | increase the risk of death for no other advantage than to | prevent tax evasion. It's the equivalent of deciding the | punishment for tax evasion is to execute one in every hundred | tax evaders. | | Physical barriers on the other hand are both obvious to car | drivers, there's no situation where a car driver believes a | physical barrier might be safe to drive into, and more | importantly, physical barriers are used to protect other road | users, not punish people. So you're trading an increased risk | of death to prevent bad driving, you're increasing the risk | of driver death to reduce deaths caused by bad driving. If | drivers regularly strike a barrier that protects a school, it | would be completely _unreasonable_ to remove that barrier, | and allow drivers to strike children instead. | jessriedel wrote: | > It's impossible for a human to tell the difference... | | You are arguing that the risk of accidental poisoning by | methanol is in fact high. Thats an empirical question, and | I explicitly agreed in my comment that if the risk is high | then this is not a good method of disincentive. | Importantly, your argument is _not_ the one I was | rebutting, that poisons are bad disincentives because they | are inhumane punishments for tax evasion. | | But more to your point: methanol poisoning is often used in | situations where the potential drinkers are highly | informed, e.g., people ordering chemicals out of a catalog. | The risk, ultimately, is an empirical question, and you are | invited to check how often accidental poisonings of this | type happen. | | > It's the equivalent of deciding the punishment for tax | evasion is to execute one in every hundred tax evaders. | | It's not, both in terms of numbers and in terms of | principle. | | > physical barriers are used to protect other road user... | | You have misinterpreted my comment. I did not refer to | _protective_ barriers. There are plenty of examples where | metal posts and concrete barriers are used to stop cars | from getting to places where they would be a nuisance but | not dangerous (e.g., pay parking lots, dedicated express | lanes, and "no thru traffic" barriers). | matheusmoreira wrote: | > It's the equivalent of deciding the punishment for tax | evasion is to execute one in every hundred tax evaders. | | And no doubt causing permanent blindness in an even higher | number of survivors. | | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC1771266/ | | > During summertime, the patient had earned his living by | fire eating at different Spanish locations. | | > According to the patient, a sudden episode of hiccough | during fire eating caused accidental ingestion of denatured | alcohol containing methanol. | | > Our patient demonstrates that accidental ingestion of | even small amounts of denatured alcohol containing methanol | can cause irreversible blindness with intracerebral | lesions. | | > As a clear, colourless, volatile liquid with a weak | odour, methanol is difficult to differentiate from other | forms of alcohols such as ethanol. | | > Methanol is rapidly absorbed not only after oral | ingestion but by inhalation or after cutaneous exposure and | becomes oxidised in the liver to formaldehyde and to formic | acid, metabolites which are more toxic than methanol itself | arpa wrote: | Even more so, counterfeit drinks contaminated with methanol | have killed people who accidentally bought and unknowingly | consumed said drinks, even in bars! Becherovka incidents | come to mind. | | so you're not killing tax evaders, but rather random | innocents. | WastingMyTime89 wrote: | > If it's extremely rare, then this is a reasonable use case | | I don't really see the point of risking poisoning people as a | way of dissuading tax dodging especially when alternatives | exist. In the same way we don't put solid barriers on roads | unless people walking need to be protected - when a barrier | is there to dissuade a driver it's designed so a car runs | through a barrier without hurting the driver and passengers. | jessriedel wrote: | > I don't really see the point of risking poisoning people | as a way of dissuading tax dodging especially when | alternatives exist. | | You're not disagreeing with what I wrote. | | > In the same way we don't put solid barriers on roads | unless people walking need to be protected | | Not true. We also put up barriers when people driving over | the line would merely be a nuisance, e.g. in parking lots | or to keep people from entering closed areas. | exmadscientist wrote: | > there's no technical reason to use poison | | Yes, there is. Methanol and ethanol are very chemically similar | and small amounts of methanol in your ethanol is usually | acceptable from a chemical standpoint. But denatonium benzoate | is not like ethanol, and can be a contaminant that destroys the | process. | | To get around this, you either have to find old-fashioned | methylated spirits in very high purity, pay the alcohol taxes | (which are stratospheric on 200 proof...), or file a crapton of | paperwork to buy ethanol tax-free because you're doing | chemistry things with it, not drinking it. The latter is what | big operations do, but it's a giant pain in the ass if you are | _not_ a big operation and you just need moderate volumes of | high purity alcohol for your critical cleaning operations.... | AlotOfReading wrote: | Labs aren't buying their stuff at Walmart, so I don't know | why they'd by affected by any remotely reasonable law. The | supply houses can keep selling methylated alcohol, but let's | get the unnecessary poisons off store shelves and out of | consumer cabinets. | exmadscientist wrote: | No disagreement from me. I'm just saying there _is_ a | technical reason to use methanol denaturants sometimes. | oddeyed wrote: | When I had Covid in December, I briefly lost my sense of smell | and taste (only for a few days, thankfully). I decided I would | see if the Switch cartridges tasted as bad as I remembered - | purely in the interests of science, of course. | | I couldn't taste it at first, but then the wave of toxic | unpleasantness slowly built up, even after I had moved the | cartridge away from my tongue. It was different than I remembered | it being, but then again it had been a few years since I tried it | (probably spurred by this same headline). Really horrible. Good | to know that this bitterant it still is a deterrent if you have | anosmia! | divbzero wrote: | That is really interesting, especially because you could | compare the taste with vs. without anosmia. Thank you for | trying that for the sake of science and glad you recovered | shortly thereafter. | jms703 wrote: | Save you a click: | | "A bittering agent (Denatonium Benzoate) has also been applied to | the game card," | | To prevent children from eating them. | rtkwe wrote: | I learned about this when it first came out and Jeff Gerstmann | just shoved one in his mouth. | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rzw0rWubE_4 | pimlottc wrote: | This is directly referenced in the article, there's a gif of it | too | ortusdux wrote: | The same bitterant has been used in anti-freeze for about a | decade now to help prevent poisonings of children and animals. It | is also used in air duster cans, which I've found annoying | because it can go from your keyboard to your fingers. | criddell wrote: | I think air duster cans for cleaning firearms does not have the | bitterant in it. | KennyBlanken wrote: | Given my friend's dog licked up a bunch of antifreeze a couple | months ago, I'd say it doesn't work very well. | ortusdux wrote: | It's the most bitter compound know to humans, with a | detectability down to 0.05 ppm, and average aversion dosing | around 10ppm. Lab tests show that some animals require | 100,000 times the dose before detection. This discrepancy is | leveraged for another application - making rat poison | repulsive to children without reducing its efficacy. | | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00319. | .. | jakear wrote: | I take small pride in the idea there's something I can | taste better than my dog. All I ever hear is how their | senses are orders more heightened than our own. Do you know | if there are any smells that humans can detect better than | dogs? | duderific wrote: | I've seen dogs eat cat poop, so maybe they're not the target | audience. Not sure what it would take to make a dog not eat | something. | klyrs wrote: | Windshield wiper fluid, too. I got a little on my fingers once, | and didn't notice for a few hours, when I licked a finger... | what _is_ that flavor... probably licked it a dozen times | before I remembered. Whoops. Problem is, I like bitter flavors, | and that one was just fascinating. | cultofmetatron wrote: | > It is also used in air duster cans | | obligatory: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-jp3bgyUCo&ab_channel=A%26E | amelius wrote: | This type of coating is also on Duracell batteries. | MBCook wrote: | I had to buy some coin cell batteries a few months ago (CR2032s | or similar) and was surprised to see the package proclaiming | they'd done that. Made sense, but had never thought of the need | before. | isthisnametaken wrote: | Kids swallowing coin cell batteries is a recurring and very | serious problem. Hospitals will take it very seriously | (x-rays, etc) if there's even a suspicion that one has been | swallowed. | mattlondon wrote: | Coin cell batteries can kill toddlers within 48-72 hours if | swallowed. Even if they don't kill, they can cause terrible | internal burns when the gut shorts the terminals. | | If there is _any_ suspicion of swallowing a coin cell, go | direct to hospital. Do not give the child anything to eat or | drink until given the all clear. | | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-29610570 | matheusmoreira wrote: | > "A bittering agent (Denatonium Benzoate) has also been applied | to the game card," the spokesperson said, adding that Nintendo | recommends keeping Switch cartridges away from children "to avoid | the possibility of accidental ingestion." The representative also | noted that denatonium benzoate is non-toxic. | | That was unexpected and interesting. | Alex3917 wrote: | Note that non-toxic does not mean edible, as the FDA recently | clarified due to many people being severely poisoned from | eating cakes decorated with luster dust meant for crafting. | | https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043a2.htm | | You would think that if something says non-toxic, licking it | shouldn't kill you, but apparently not. | NovemberWhiskey wrote: | One of the basic principles of toxicology is "the dose makes | the poison". | | From an OSHA perspective, "toxic" means (amongst other | things) a mean-lethal-dose (LD50) of up to 500 mg per | kilogram of bodyweight when ingested orally in lab rats. | | There's all kind of stuff that doesn't meet the standard of | toxic that you still wouldn't want to eat. | LorenPechtel wrote: | And there's stuff that is toxic that you do want to eat. | Check your multivitamin, there's stuff in there that would | kill you at that level. | NovemberWhiskey wrote: | Also, for example, aspirin. | yread wrote: | So at LD50 of 508 mg/kg you could call it "barely non- | toxic" | umanwizard wrote: | What _does_ it mean, then? | [deleted] | earthscienceman wrote: | Wait. WTF does non-toxic mean then? Non-toxic to touch? I | don't fathom what they're trying to communicate then.. | Sebb767 wrote: | If anyone else is wondering, the only somewhat concise | explanation I found was this[0]: | | > Non-toxic is essentially a placebo term and unlike food- | safe or food-grade products, has little to no government | regulation in terms of its accuracy. [...] | | > What non-toxic means is that the product contains no | ingredients that have been linked to toxic responses in | humans. Toxic responses are things like hormone disruption, | poisoning, or cancer. | | [0] https://www.greenmatters.com/p/does-non-toxic-mean-food- | safe | matheusmoreira wrote: | Dose makes the poison. | | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8351798/ | | > The toxicity of denatonium benzoate is low with acute po | LD50's in rats of 485-740 mg/kg. | | https://www.chemsrc.com/en/cas/3734-33-6_1028011.html | TYPE OF TEST: LD50 - Lethal dose, 50 percent kill | ROUTE OF EXPOSURE: Oral SPECIES OBSERVED: | Rodent - rat DOSE/DURATION: 584 mg/kg | DOSE/DURATION: 508 mg/kg | | Non-toxic definitely means that common exposure to the | product shouldn't pose serious risks to one's health. In | other words, licking a Nintendo Switch cartridge should not | result in a dose of denatonium anywhere near high enough to | cause any deleterious health effects. Drinking entire bottles | of the stuff probably will. | | This luster dust apparently contains lead, how these | manufacturers managed to conclude that it is non-toxic is | beyond me. | hoangdung123 wrote: | yeah | RIMR wrote: | I hate how in the matter of like 2 minutes I can be goaded into | doing something dumb like licking the cartridge right out of my | Switch, only to learn precisely the lesson I could have learned | by simply reading the article: That the cartridges taste | profoundly offensive. | ctf1er wrote: | If covid happened 30 years ago, I can imagine public safety ads | about kids sharing and blowing on NES catridges to make them | work, quite a vector. | bityard wrote: | You know what happens when you tell kids/teens not to do | something, right? | spidersouris wrote: | But at least with such a taste left in their mouths, they'll | surely _not_ do it. | siltpotato wrote: | dlbucci wrote: | Well, they aren't just telling them not to do it, they are | physically dissuading them from doing so. This is probably a | lot more effective than a warning sticker to not put the | cartridge in their mouth. | dahfizz wrote: | The irony, of course, is that everyone's reaction to hearing | about the bittering agent is to immediately lick a cartridge | to taste it for themselves. | mywittyname wrote: | Have you seriously never tasted something after someone told | you, "this thing tastes awful"? | donatj wrote: | It seems to fade with age/handling. Brand new cartridges taste | really bad. My several year old ones taste fine. | erwincoumans wrote: | Touching you tongue to both terminals of a small 9V battery also | tasts bad and sour. I've done it several times as a kid, checking | if a battery was (almost) empty :) | lilyball wrote: | I cannot taste "bitter" (it's a genetic thing), though bittering | agents used in food/drinks do taste very unpleasant to me (I | don't know what it is I'm tasting in those or why it's so | unpleasant). | | I have not tried licking a Switch cartridge. | | Does anyone know if Denatonium Benzoate will still taste bad to | me, or is the badness entirely contained in the "bitter" that I | cannot taste? I could experiment myself but I've resisted the | urge to lick the cartridges for 5 years and I'm not particularly | fond of the idea of tasting something awful. | | Edit: Looking more at this in Wikipedia, it sounds like the | genetic inability to taste bitter is specific to the TASR38 | receptor, and that Denatonium Benzoate targets a different set of | receptors. I am not a subject matter expert here, but it sounds | to me like I should be able to still taste it. | countvonbalzac wrote: | Probably so little kids don't eat them | micromacrofoot wrote: | Yeah it says that in the article. | | "A bittering agent (Denatonium Benzoate) has also been applied | to the game card," the spokesperson said, adding that Nintendo | recommends keeping Switch cartridges away from children "to | avoid the possibility of accidental ingestion." | | It's somewhat common practice, some products will even say | "contains a bittering agent to prevent ingestion" somewhere on | the container. I believe engine coolants are required to have | it. | mywittyname wrote: | > I believe engine coolants are required to have it. | | This has been successfully used to poison people in the past. | The end result is heart failure, which is not a | surprising/suspicious outcome for a large portion of people. | joshuaheard wrote: | Exactly, it's so babies don't choke on them. | Flankk wrote: | spicybright wrote: | Uhh, ok? | mattlondon wrote: | Thanks Nintendo. There are undoubtedly a bunch of kids around | still today who avoided having A Bad Time because of this (...and | the kids won't even know it) | | Good work. | honkycat wrote: | I remember seeing this at the time, and trying to lick a | cartridge. | | No effect, tastes like nothing to me. This is because I am a non- | taster. | | I have notoriously blunt taste amongst my loved ones, sometimes | they won't even waste good wine on me, ha! | | Another example of not tasting bitter: I am rather fond of | Jeppson's Malort, a meme liquor popular in Chicago for its | extremely bitter taste. Personally, I think it tastes bad, but do | not have the same reaction as many other people. | bserge wrote: | Jaxkr wrote: | I waited outside GameStop on launch day to snag a Switch with my | friend. We had heard about the bittering agent applied to the | cartridges by day two and immediately tasted them ourselves. | | Hard to believe the Switch is five years old... | KennyBlanken wrote: | What's hard to believe is that Nintendo is still milking what | was already an ancient screen and SoC for all its worth, or | that despite making container-ship levels of profits off the | Switch, they haven't bothered to make joycons last longer than | their warranty period. | njovin wrote: | I have a fond memory of camping outside a Target from ~10:00p | to 6:00a when the Wii was launched. We hung out with a group of | strangers in camping chairs, talked about our favorite games, | and tried to keep warm. When the Starbucks bakery delivery came | a few hours before the store opened the driver gave us all free | pastries. | | The Wii ended up being a very disappointing launch experience | IMO but we had a fun time waiting for one. | atom-morgan wrote: | I have a not so fond memory camping out in Walmart for my | Wii. I think we could just stay inside since it was 24hrs and | they were selling them right at midnight. | | I got home, turned on the Wii, and was asked to insert a | startup disc. I searched that box at least 20 times trying to | find the disc with no luck. | | I was a heavy user of GameSpot's forums at the time and asked | about this disc. Literally everyone thought I was trolling. | Nobody believed me until I uploaded photos of my TV. | | Eventually my dad called Nintendo and they shipped out a new | one ASAP but my 16 year old self was so pissed given all the | hype going into it. Days waiting with a useless Wii staring | back at me. | | Startup Disc: https://lostmediawiki.com/Wii_Startup_Disc_(fou | nd_software_d... | jimmaswell wrote: | It had Twilight Princess which is good enough for me to call | it a great launch. Wii Sports was fun too. | eternityforest wrote: | The early 2000s were like the peak of tech. | | Video games are kinda just OK now. The actual experience was | always like 70% set and setting. The game companies put a lot | of effort into the games themselves but where are the LAN | parties and release events? Where is.... any other aspect of | gaming except the games? | | Esports youtubers don't really replace split screen | multiplayer. | meristohm wrote: | Videogames are just getting started. The Breath and depth | of games is growing, and like with novels and moving | pictures not all games are great. | capableweb wrote: | > the LAN parties | | I dearly miss LAN parties so much. Used to help coordinate | one recurring one back in early 2000s. We had so much fun | when Battlefield Vietnam was released and everyone was | playing it together while sitting next to each other and | speaking mostly in expletives. DC++ was a huge factor as | well, especially when someone with a 100GB hard-drive from | the biggest city nearby arrived and could share everything | they managed to pull down from the almighty broadband | connection they had. | [deleted] | jb1991 wrote: | Tldr if you don't want to immediately spit it out, you might have | Covid. | matheusmoreira wrote: | Now I wonder how sensitive for COVID-19 the Switch cartridge | licking test is... | Xavdidtheshadow wrote: | This lead to some great headlines as the Switch was launching: | | > Sure, Breath of the Wild is fun; but how does it taste? | MBCook wrote: | I know this isn't new but I still love that Nintendo did this. | It's such a Nintendo thing. They're a toy company and think like | one. | | Did Sony do this with the Vita cartridges? I don't remember | hearing so (and never thought to taste them?). | | Heh. | badlucklottery wrote: | >Did Sony do this with the Vita cartridges? | | Well, wonder no longer. I just licked a PS Vita copy of World | of Final Fantasy and it only tastes faintly of plastic. | flatiron wrote: | My SD2Vita also doesn't taste too bad ;) | jonny_eh wrote: | What about the microSD? | ajmurmann wrote: | Just the idea of it makes me nauseous | nitwit005 wrote: | I appreciate the effort to answer these important questions. | tomcam wrote: | SCIENCE | | and thank you | mywittyname wrote: | It's not SCIENCE until somebody replicates the OP's | results. | RC_ITR wrote: | It's actually amazing how Nintendo's "Focus on 1P titles and | make HW that is appealing to the masses" used to be its | greatest disadvantage and is now probably the only reason for | their existence. | | Kind of Japan's Apple in some ways (with SEGA unfortunately | being Japan's NeXT). | hbn wrote: | It's really true, I definitely get the same feeling using | Nintendo products as I do using Apple's. A constant struggle | of love and hate. A company that's doing things in its space | so differently than all its competitors, and is in a | completely unique situation from the rest that allows them to | do those things so differently. Occasionally annoying and | archaic with their inability to get with the times in certain | areas. | | But I use their products, and love them anyway. Cause | generally (with exceptions, of course) they create some of | the very few computers/consoles/software out there that feels | like it had someone constantly questioning whether the thing | is fun/nice to use throughout the design process. | mikepurvis wrote: | Complete with kind of a weird takeover/resurrection story: | | https://stoneagegamer.com/blog/the-xbox-almost-the- | dreamcast... | jmole wrote: | Sony is Japan's Apple if anyone is. | | A company like Nintendo doesn't seem like it has an American | equivalent, and I actually can't imagine a company like that | surviving the ups and downs of the 80s/90s/00s tech cycles in | the US, especially with our tendency towards M&A. | Dig1t wrote: | That comparison aside, I think Nintendo and Apple are very | similar in a spiritual sense. They both love vertical | integration, they both love to own as much of the software | and hardware stack as possible, they both have a perceived | emphasis on quality, independence of thought, they don't | play nicely with others as much as they can get away with, | they both have super loyal, obsessive fanbases, and they | have literal mountains of cash because of this attitude | within their respective industries. I think Sony is in a | similar line of business as Apple but they don't have the | same attitude that these two share. | | Another company I'd lump in with these 2 would be Disney | for the same reasons as above. | RC_ITR wrote: | I would disagree - No one ever really assumed Sony would go | out of business from a fundamental standpoint. They may | have gone through a period of diminished value and failed | projects (laptops, smartphones, etc.), but the PlayStation | has always been a hit, the media arm has always been a 'Top | 4' player, the headphones were always category-leading, the | camera sensors were always top notch, and I'm sure I'm | missing many other aspects of their business. If anything | that brings to mind MSFT (who's always led in core areas, | but has also had periods of diminished value and failed | projects). | | On the other hand, many people thought Nintendo (as we know | it at least) might go belly-up in the Gamecube and Wii U | eras. There was real talk of them becoming a game dev with | no hardware if the Switch was as much of a failure [0]. | Similar to the talk around Apple post-Newton, pre-iBook. | | [0]https://www.gonintendo.com/stories/376204-after-the- | failure-... | TylerE wrote: | I don't get the Sony:Apple comparison at all. | | If anything, Sony is Japan's Microsoft: Do a gazillion | things, many of them poorly, to such a unfocused extent | that some of your divisions actually end up competition | with each other. | | Like in Sony's case, how they've had internal battles for | decades between the device side (that wants to make devices | that are useful) and the content side (that wants DRM out | the ass on everything) | astrange wrote: | Sony is older than Apple and was one of Steve Jobs' main | inspirations. He even wanted to make everyone wear | uniforms (which Sony and Nintendo still did then) - | that's where his same outfit every day habit came from. | | They weren't focused back then, but neither was Apple. | dec0dedab0de wrote: | _Sony is older than Apple..._ | | Unrelated to your point, but Nintendo is older than Sony | and Apple combined. Apple 45 years | Sony 75 years Nintendo 132 years | kaladin-jasnah wrote: | Didn't Jobs also offer Sony to make laptops that ran OS | X? | | Also, random thing, but both Orbis (Playstation operating | system) and OS X are based on FreeBSD. | Hamuko wrote: | Apparently they even made an official Sony VAIO | Hackintosh. | | https://www.theverge.com/2014/2/5/5380832/sony-vaio- | apple-os... | mattkevan wrote: | Pretty sure OS X is based on the Mach/XNU kernel and | Darwin, not FreeBSD. | smoldesu wrote: | It's a bit of an amalgam, and it honestly depends on | which version of OSX you're talking about. Mach itself | was designed as an improvement over BSD, and it was more | or less a microkernel developed around BSD concepts with | binary compatibility. My understanding is that as time | went on, performance issues and security concerns forced | Apple to poach more and more BSD code onto Mach, which | leaves us with the pretty messy codebase they use today. | Supposedly (?) a lot of the zombie code is being cleaned | up internally, but it's been an ongoing, multi-year | process for Apple, probably made even more difficult with | their bonafide UNIX certification. | kaladin-jasnah wrote: | Thank you for the clear and concise explanation (: It was | very informative. | kaladin-jasnah wrote: | I thought there was _some_ influence on the kernel from | FreeBSD, even if not that much. I am aware the kernel is | not the FreeBSD one, though. | | https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation | /Da... seems to have information on this. | tacker2000 wrote: | I dont know if you can say that Sony is doing stuff | "poorly". Most of the hardware they make is very solid. | Think about their speakers, headphones, the consoles, | etc. But yes i agree, they are a huge company with a lot | of divisions where sometimes the decisions are at odds. | Which parts do you think are doing poorly? | ngngngng wrote: | Which parts do you think are doing poorly? | | The names of their products. How do you keep anything | straight when the name of each product is UUID? | toast0 wrote: | That's easy, UUIDs are unique, so it's easy to tell them | apart, although it's hard to group them. Much better than | deciding what the heck 'new iPad' means or if you want a | new old 3ds or a used new 3ds, or if updating iOS means | your phone or your router. | easrng wrote: | To be fair, Cisco IOS and Apple iOS are not from the same | company and aren't really in the same field. | toast0 wrote: | Sure, but Apple had to buy the rights to the trademark | for iOS from the same company they had to buy the rights | for the trademark for iPhone. | spiderice wrote: | Just because Apple has had some bad names doesn't make | Sony's names better. Don't compare Sony's naming | conventions with iPad, compare them with iPhone, which is | significantly easier. | | Q: Which iPhone do you have A: iPhone 12 Pro Max (I | choose this one because it's one of the longer iPhone | names) | | vs | | Q: Which Sony headphones do you have A: MX 4 or something | like that. Let me check my Amazon order history. Oh yeah, | here it is. The WH-1000XM4 | | I'd much prefer the iPhone naming convention to what Sony | does, and Apple having screwed up the iPad naming doesn't | really excuse Sony here. | grenoire wrote: | It's not entirely about the business structure or its | fundamental revenue sources. Don't think like an | accountant here, it's about the brand. In terms of being | the top-tier tech and hardware firm of your nation, Sony | _is_ Japan 's Apple. It's a strong household name too, | regardless of their conglomerate style being close to | Microsoft. | KennyBlanken wrote: | It took them twenty years to give up trying to push | Memory Stick, a product that was made irrelevant in | barely four years by SD cards. | ascagnel_ wrote: | I pin the failure of the Vita (a system designed around | downloadable games with hardware buttons) on the need to | use proprietary memory. Yes, Sony made more off of the | proprietary memory than off of SD/uSD cards, but | handicapped the system and made the downloadable games | that should have been its bread and butter an expensive | proposition for users. | nemothekid wrote: | > _Do a gazillion things, many of them poorly_ | | What does Sony do poorly? Sony has the same dysfunction | Apple has - everything has to be invented in house. If | you told me that a company invented an high end camera | that 20% more than the competitors and used proprietary | connectors and memory cards, I wouldn't be surprised if | that was Apple. | | > _decades between the device side (that wants to make | devices that are useful) and the content side (that wants | DRM out the ass on everything)_ | | Remember FairPlay? | TylerE wrote: | Aibo? | | The Qualia fiasco? | | PSPgo? | hermitdev wrote: | > Remember FairPlay? | | Was FairPlay the name of the rootkit they'd install if | you tried to play one of their audio CDs in a Windows PC? | easrng wrote: | FairPlay is Apple's DRM. | klodolph wrote: | Seems like Nintendo tried the same strategy over and over | again, and it sometimes works due to the right confluence of | decent hardware design (not all of their hardware is good) | and the right circumstances. | | It worked for the Game Boy. Its competitors were more | powerful, but it turns out that people would rather not spend | more money for a color screen if it your system chews through | a set of six AA batteries in three hours. | | It worked for the Switch. Its competitors were more powerful, | but it turns out that people like the portability, and it | doesn't seem like they're getting cut-down inferior versions | of games for other systems. | | It didn't work so well for the N64, Game Cube, or Wii U. | kbelder wrote: | They really are an interesting company. They are slower than | Sony/MS, yet more innovative at the same time. They make a | fair amount of bone-headed decisions, but I certainly _trust_ | them more than I do most other tech companies. | | Especially back in the PS3/XBox360/Wii days, they seemed like | the only thing stopping the VG industry from a nofun | dystopian duopoly. | vlunkr wrote: | It's interesting that Sony and MS have not even attempted | to compete directly with the Switch, despite it being a | massive success. They're kind of in their own market right | now, which is where they usually succeed (like the Wii). | Steam is coming in 5 years late with the Game Gear 2, so I | guess we'll see how that goes. | ascagnel_ wrote: | I think Microsoft is trying to compete via cloud | streaming of games -- saying "you can play Halo on | basically any device with an internet connection" is a | compelling argument, even if they have a ways to go to | make it a compelling experience. | okl wrote: | Synthesis of the substance: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOw_I42eUpM | simlevesque wrote: | NileRed is a national treasure ! | tablespoon wrote: | > People have speculated that the manufacturing process for | Switch cartridges involves coating them in a layer of foul- | tasting film, so as to discourage people from, well, putting the | cartridges in their mouths. (Why do you think Play-Doh is so | bitter and salty?) | | IIRC, Play-Doh is basically flour and the salt is there as a | preservative. | svachalek wrote: | I think it's more than that, it has something to do with its | consistency. You can find recipes to make your own and they all | use a seemingly ridiculous amount of salt. | Ekaros wrote: | Probably something to do with absorbing or that is storing | moisture. Want to keep it relatively moist. | setgree wrote: | Can you wash off the bittering agent? The article does not | specify and I want to know for...hypothetical reasons | spicybright wrote: | They're computer chips, not regular chips silly. | ant6n wrote: | U can wash regular chips? | magneticnorth wrote: | According to another comment, the bittering agent is in the | sticker, so presumably you could remove the sticker before | consuming your switch cartridge. | isk517 wrote: | Forgetting to remove the sticker before adding the cartridge | is a common mistake many new and inexperienced chefs make. | emptybottle wrote: | This sounds similar to what is now done to button cell batteries | to deter kids from putting them in their mouths. | | I've never tried tasting either but I wonder if the process is | the same? | 99_00 wrote: | >Why do you think Play-Doh is so bitter and salty? | | I didn't know that it was. Interesting that they assume this is | common knowledge. Other people must be putting a lot more in | their months than me. | Decabytes wrote: | I mention this trivia to almost all my friends when they come | over. Many have given it a kick to see for themselves | xcambar wrote: | So... you mean that almost all your friends have licked a | Switch game of yours? | | Not my kind of fetish but ok. :) ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-01-25 23:00 UTC)