[HN Gopher] The Semiconductor Ecosystem Explained ___________________________________________________________________ The Semiconductor Ecosystem Explained Author : 55873445216111 Score : 36 points Date : 2022-02-08 20:20 UTC (2 hours ago) (HTM) web link (semiwiki.com) (TXT) w3m dump (semiwiki.com) | bobsmooth wrote: | With how critical semiconductors are, I'm really surprised having | nationally owned fabs, even a few nodes behind, isn't a priority | for big governments. | roughly wrote: | For China it is. The US seems to have been under the impression | for the last couple decades that geopolitics don't exist | anymore. | | On that note, if TSMC's technical supremacy isn't a core part | of Taiwan's national security strategy I'd be shocked - | whatever else the US may think about Taiwan & China, the fact | that our entire electronic infrastructure relies on TSMC in | some form or fashion ensures we have a deep and serious ongoing | commitment to their independence from our chief geopolitical | rival. | rwmj wrote: | As the other reply said, it's a strategic goal for China. | | The EU has also recently woken up to this and launched: | https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/news/european-proce... | AshamedCaptain wrote: | The EU has plenty of older-node fabs (e.g. ST). I live next | to one... | [deleted] | tynpeddler wrote: | Interesting information but I'm not sure about the accuracy of | their chart depicting the leading edge node manufacturers. Until | the last few years, Intel was ahead of TSMC and Samsung (Intel's | 14nm process was equivalent to TSMC's 10-7nm from my | understanding). So if Intel is excluded from the current leading | edge manufacturers, shouldn't others be removed from the graph | for the early 2010's? | throwawaylinux wrote: | Yeah this is one thing I don't get about the Intel is doomed | crowd. Semiconductor manufacturing lead has changed hands a | bunch of times in the past, with Intel being in the lead for | probably most of the past 2-3 decades. TSMC has had notable | problems with nodes and has been about as far behind Intel as | Intel is behind now for periods. | | Why wasn't TSMC doomed then? And why couldn't Intel turn around | now like TSMC did? | | Intel looks nothing like other vertically integrated CPU | businesses that divested from manufacturing in the past, it's | still making a lot of money and gross margins are still healthy | (and still higher than AMD and TSMC at the moment!) although | clearly taken a hit from the mid/low 60s where they typically | sat down to mid/low 50s in the past 3 years. Manufacturing | silicon is still a profitable business for them. | | Intel also has by some important metrics, the best performing | CPUs available despite competitors being on TSMC and Samsung. I | don't argue the others aren't better in other equally valid | metrics. It was actually much more difficult to make that same | statement about competitors back when Intel had a clear silicon | tech advantage. | | So definitely Intel is a leading edge node manufacturer if | others were in the past. | cxr wrote: | You can tell that it originates from within the semiconductor | industry by the jarring colors in the slides and the generally | chaotic presentation (e.g. layout)--on top of the already-dubious | decision to use PowerPoint to explain these ideas by reflex. | lambdasquirrel wrote: | I don't suppose you noticed who the author was either, or did | you? ;) | | Brilliant all-around guy. Wrote the book on some things back in | the day. Sometimes reading a difficult presentation is the | price to pay for knowledge. | Traster wrote: | Does this seem a little outdated to anyone else? Like, ImgTec | haven't really existed as a top tier player for almost a decade, | and AFAIK Apple doesn't license Ip cores from ARM, but the ISA | itself. | | Also, I feel like this diagram is just weird. The pyramid makes | no sense to me, I always think of it in terms of physical and | logical, you have the physical - the Materials, WFE, Fabs. The | logical organisation of the pyramid makes no sense to me. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-02-08 23:00 UTC)