[HN Gopher] The Semiconductor Ecosystem Explained
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Semiconductor Ecosystem Explained
        
       Author : 55873445216111
       Score  : 36 points
       Date   : 2022-02-08 20:20 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (semiwiki.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (semiwiki.com)
        
       | bobsmooth wrote:
       | With how critical semiconductors are, I'm really surprised having
       | nationally owned fabs, even a few nodes behind, isn't a priority
       | for big governments.
        
         | roughly wrote:
         | For China it is. The US seems to have been under the impression
         | for the last couple decades that geopolitics don't exist
         | anymore.
         | 
         | On that note, if TSMC's technical supremacy isn't a core part
         | of Taiwan's national security strategy I'd be shocked -
         | whatever else the US may think about Taiwan & China, the fact
         | that our entire electronic infrastructure relies on TSMC in
         | some form or fashion ensures we have a deep and serious ongoing
         | commitment to their independence from our chief geopolitical
         | rival.
        
         | rwmj wrote:
         | As the other reply said, it's a strategic goal for China.
         | 
         | The EU has also recently woken up to this and launched:
         | https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/news/european-proce...
        
           | AshamedCaptain wrote:
           | The EU has plenty of older-node fabs (e.g. ST). I live next
           | to one...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | tynpeddler wrote:
       | Interesting information but I'm not sure about the accuracy of
       | their chart depicting the leading edge node manufacturers. Until
       | the last few years, Intel was ahead of TSMC and Samsung (Intel's
       | 14nm process was equivalent to TSMC's 10-7nm from my
       | understanding). So if Intel is excluded from the current leading
       | edge manufacturers, shouldn't others be removed from the graph
       | for the early 2010's?
        
         | throwawaylinux wrote:
         | Yeah this is one thing I don't get about the Intel is doomed
         | crowd. Semiconductor manufacturing lead has changed hands a
         | bunch of times in the past, with Intel being in the lead for
         | probably most of the past 2-3 decades. TSMC has had notable
         | problems with nodes and has been about as far behind Intel as
         | Intel is behind now for periods.
         | 
         | Why wasn't TSMC doomed then? And why couldn't Intel turn around
         | now like TSMC did?
         | 
         | Intel looks nothing like other vertically integrated CPU
         | businesses that divested from manufacturing in the past, it's
         | still making a lot of money and gross margins are still healthy
         | (and still higher than AMD and TSMC at the moment!) although
         | clearly taken a hit from the mid/low 60s where they typically
         | sat down to mid/low 50s in the past 3 years. Manufacturing
         | silicon is still a profitable business for them.
         | 
         | Intel also has by some important metrics, the best performing
         | CPUs available despite competitors being on TSMC and Samsung. I
         | don't argue the others aren't better in other equally valid
         | metrics. It was actually much more difficult to make that same
         | statement about competitors back when Intel had a clear silicon
         | tech advantage.
         | 
         | So definitely Intel is a leading edge node manufacturer if
         | others were in the past.
        
       | cxr wrote:
       | You can tell that it originates from within the semiconductor
       | industry by the jarring colors in the slides and the generally
       | chaotic presentation (e.g. layout)--on top of the already-dubious
       | decision to use PowerPoint to explain these ideas by reflex.
        
         | lambdasquirrel wrote:
         | I don't suppose you noticed who the author was either, or did
         | you? ;)
         | 
         | Brilliant all-around guy. Wrote the book on some things back in
         | the day. Sometimes reading a difficult presentation is the
         | price to pay for knowledge.
        
       | Traster wrote:
       | Does this seem a little outdated to anyone else? Like, ImgTec
       | haven't really existed as a top tier player for almost a decade,
       | and AFAIK Apple doesn't license Ip cores from ARM, but the ISA
       | itself.
       | 
       | Also, I feel like this diagram is just weird. The pyramid makes
       | no sense to me, I always think of it in terms of physical and
       | logical, you have the physical - the Materials, WFE, Fabs. The
       | logical organisation of the pyramid makes no sense to me.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-02-08 23:00 UTC)