[HN Gopher] 2021 at OCamlPro
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2021 at OCamlPro
Author : gjadi
Score : 79 points
Date : 2022-02-18 14:49 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ocamlpro.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ocamlpro.com)
| gjadi wrote:
| Learn OCaml is a cool platform to play with OCaml and I'm excited
| about their work on TLA+ !
| baby wrote:
| It's great to hear that Opam is making progress! I just wished
| that it would be more deeply integrated with Dune. A package
| manager that doesn't build is not very useful to be honest.
| Currently the only way to not have to care about switches and be
| able to clearly specify dependencies is to use the esy package
| manager[1] (which had lock files a while ago). With their work on
| Rust I can only hope they get inspired by Cargo.
|
| It's also interesting to see that they're working a lot with
| Rust. I've seen a lot of OCaml people switching to Rust or
| getting more and more into Rust, I'm wondering what this means
| for OCaml.
|
| [1]: https://github.com/esy/esy/
| mro_name wrote:
| being able to pipe dune through opam would be cool - write
| human stuff to stderr and opam input to stdout. And then run
| e.g. $ dune runtest | opam
|
| dune and opam would have to agree on how to talk with each
| other, however.
| mseri wrote:
| They do, they are developing drom[1], a wrapper over opam and
| dune to provide a cargo-like experience.
|
| [1]: https://ocamlpro.github.io/drom/
|
| What's wrong with opam? Since version 2 it also supports local
| switches and locking, and the opam repository has become much
| more stable than in the past. Full disclosure: I am biased
| here, since I am one of the opam-repository maintainers and I
| am quite happy with opam itself.
| andreypopp wrote:
| > What's wrong with opam?
|
| I'd say the main problem is that local switches and lock
| files are still not the default mode of operation.
|
| Also opam lacks a global cache of built packages which esy
| provides (esy's cache is modelled after Nix package manager).
| So every new opam local switch effectively compiles
| everything from scratch. Though, as I understand this aspect
| is going to be addressed by dune at some point (though esy
| caches not just OCaml built artefacts but also C/C++).
|
| (Full disclosure: I'm biased as I'm one of the original
| developers of esy)
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| Rust at OCamlPro?
| mirekrusin wrote:
| They specialize in both, they should probably change name from
| "OCamlPro SAS" to something like "R&D SAS" or whatever.
| adamnemecek wrote:
| Rust is heavily influenced by OCaml. The first Rust compiler
| was written in Rust.
| O_H_E wrote:
| > The first Rust compiler was written in Rust
|
| I think you meant "was written in OCaml"
| adamnemecek wrote:
| I did, haha.
| LAC-Tech wrote:
| I think Rust and Ocaml are very different languages.
|
| I went into Rust thinking I could use it like a kind of curly
| brace Ocaml, and that's totally off. It's much more like a
| very strict modern C++ with a lot of historical cruft
| removed.
|
| OCaml is much more concise and higher level. It also doesn't
| let you reason about memory layout really well. Plus Ocaml
| has parametric polymorphism and higher order modules,
| compared with rusts ad-hoc polymorphism and traits. In Ocaml
| the idiomatic solution is often recursion but that will blow
| the rust stack.
|
| (full disclaimer, I'm much better at Ocaml than I am Rust,
| and I'm really not great at Ocaml)
| riwsky wrote:
| rust has parametric polymorphism, it just calls it generics
| --and traits correspond to ocaml signatures. These aren't
| useful juxtapositions.
| speed_spread wrote:
| > The first Rust compiler was written in Rust.
|
| That's impressive!
|
| (yeah, it could have been interpreted)
| adamnemecek wrote:
| Fuck I meant OCaml.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| Yes, I know this, but this is going the other direction and
| seems kind of noteworthy: OCamlPro exists to promote OCaml,
| and it looks like they're making some forays into Rust?
| mirekrusin wrote:
| OCaml - Rust interop would be very cool, whatever low-level
| stuff you can throw into Rust while being able to use it
| from OCaml would be interesting.
| mseri wrote:
| There are a number of interesting projects already doing
| this, either doing it manually via the c FFI or using
| projects like ocaml-rs [1] or ocaml-interop [2] for
| example
|
| [1]: https://github.com/zshipko/ocaml-rs [2]:
| https://github.com/tezedge/ocaml-interop
| LAC-Tech wrote:
| OCaml is one of my favourite languages. It's such a sweet spot in
| terms of conciseness and performance - yes there are a few
| language more concise and a few that have faster implementations
| but I can't think of any that are both as fast and as concise.
|
| Tooling has come a long way too - very impressed by dune, it lets
| me do my favourite thing in the world which is hit save and run
| my tests automatically.
|
| I'd use it a lot more if the ecosystem was bigger. Just can't
| justify a better language when I'd have to implement my own, idk,
| mutable ordered dictionary.
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