[HN Gopher] Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world ___________________________________________________________________ Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world Author : m6w6 Score : 175 points Date : 2022-02-22 16:56 UTC (6 hours ago) (HTM) web link (frame.work) (TXT) w3m dump (frame.work) | Queue29 wrote: | Will order one the day there is an AMD option. | twblalock wrote: | This is the problem with trying to please power users. There is | no monolithic bloc of them. They all want different things. | | AMD vs Intel? Touchscreens? Strong opinions about screen aspect | ratio and resolution, keyboard layout, touchpads, wifi chipset | brand, GPU brand, etc.? All there. | | I wish the company luck, but they are targeting the most picky | consumer market there is. | fbkr wrote: | Isn't this supposed to be a strength of framework? Their | machines are pretty modular. Users should get to pick and | choose AMD vs Intel, keyboard layouts, wifi chipsets without | framework having to design different machines for each | configuration. | twblalock wrote: | You can have your choice of 3 Intel CPUs, and you can bring | your own NVME SSD, RAM, and wifi card. Of course the | motherboard chipset determines which of those will work. | | You can't change the CPU brand. Moving from Intel to AMD | (or from the current Intel CPUs to a newer generation of | Intel CPUs) would require an entirely different | motherboard. | zerocrates wrote: | Keyboards and wifi are one thing (both already modular) but | the CPU is integrated into the mainboard and an AMD-based | board would presumably need different AMD chipsets and so | on beyond simply the CPU itself. That's "modular" in the | sense that the chassis is designed for swappable | mainboards, but it's much more involved to support. | emptysongglass wrote: | I remember socketed CPUs being a thing on some ThinkPad | models. | twblalock wrote: | I don't remember any laptop ever that could support both | AMD and Intel CPUs. The chipsets are different. | ChuckNorris89 wrote: | Everyone says that, but realistically, at the size of their | company, I can't imagine they have the resources to design, | test and support both Intel and AMD designs in parallel at the | present. | | HW development is insanely capital intensive and they're far | away from the resources of the likes of Asus and MSI, let alone | Lenovo or Dell. | deadmutex wrote: | And then the posts will be "I'll order it once they build a | custom ARM soc" :). | aunty_helen wrote: | They recently recieved a fair chunk of funding so are on the | growth path. I hope they do release a 15inch AMD based | device. | m6w6 wrote: | I would be really tempted, but there are still a couple things | putting me off: | | * Intel only * Windows only | | ... sorry boy and mum are arguing over homework -- gotta run! | byefruit wrote: | Intel only at the moment is correct but Windows only? TFA says | "no OS" as an option, so you're free to install what you like. | evronm wrote: | Indeed. Happily using Void Linux on mine. Took some doing | (kernel downgrade being the most annoying), but it works | great now. | bla3 wrote: | It's possible to install Linux, but it requires a bunch of | fiddling. And even then power management tends to not work | great. | | I'd love if Linux has as officially supported and just | worked. | humanwhosits wrote: | A pre-install option for linux would increase user trust | that it'll "just work" | terinjokes wrote: | As someone with a Dell XPS 9310 for work where Linux is a | pre-install option, I can tell you it definitely doesn't | mean it "just works". | | The Framework I got for personal use, on the other hand, | worked OOTB with a Linux USB installer. | kaladin-jasnah wrote: | I have an XPS 13 (forget the model number but I think it | had an 8th-generation Intel CPU) that came with Linux and | it definitely wasn't "just works" when I bought it | (sleep/wake was kind-of broken and such) but a month or | so later, it did magically start working (and nothing | else was really broken). | imilk wrote: | People have been waiting for a Linux that "just works" | for decades. And they'll probably still be waiting for | the next 20 years. But that's not really the point of | using Linux. | hutzlibu wrote: | "But that's not really the point of using Linux." | | That philosophy is probably part of the reason, why linux | on the desktop stays in its small niche inside tech | circles. | | Most people, myself included, indeed want a system that | "just works" - to get the actual work done. And then if | the basics work, I can enjoy the full freedom to tweak it | to my needs in infinity. | | But only very few people enjoy "freedom to tinker", when | it means "mandatory tinkering" to get basic | functionality. | | My best linux times were indeed, when stuff just worked. | I was really surprised the first time I used a live Linux | cd and everything "just worked". No manual driver | installing, like I had known from windows. It booted up | and everything was just there. | | It was different, but it worked. And then I discovered | the endless possibilities and freedom to change ANYTHING. | | But fast forward to today: my quite modern laptop still | has standby/resume issues on linux, making it hard to | enjoy it at times. And I don't feel like compiling the | kernel myself to maybe see a slight improvement. | imilk wrote: | I bought a DIY Framework and installed Pop_OS, everything | was working well after 5 minutes of "fiddling". | | So if that's a reason for you to not buy a computer, I'd | suggest that Linux may not be for you. | rozab wrote: | At first this comment made me angry (it's Linux, the whole | point is user choice, what would be the benefit in | preinstalling!) - but I suppose System76 have really showed how | much better things can be with Pop!_OS. | | I would expect the vast majority of users will be using Linux | though, so calling it Windows only seems a little misleading. | There is an option to get no OS and avoid the Windows tax. | mohanmcgeek wrote: | There's a Linux configuration | | https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop | humanwhosits wrote: | Sure, but when you look at the ordering page, it doesn't | mention linux as an OS option, just Windows or no OS | filmgirlcw wrote: | OK, but devil's advocate, if they explicitly mention Linux, | that means they have to explicitly support Linux for | newcomers and experts alike, which for a small company, is | probably not an insignificant lift, from a customer service | perspective alone. They are really clear about how things | are in the DIY and Linux sections of their forum and on | Reddit/Discord, there are tons of people helping out | (including employees), but that's a little different than | being a mainstream laptop company (and not niche like | System 76 or Tuxedo or whatever) that is also prepared, | within 6 months of shipping their first product, to offer | robust Linux support. | | I think this is doubly true when you consider the elevated | support task they have by the nature of how | upgradable/repairable the laptop is. The number of issues | I've seen from people (and I'm just an owner who lurks a | bit in some of the communities) who didn't know how to | properly insert RAM or have had other more basic problems | (which is separate from the more widespread issue of | installing the wifi cards, where the antenna cables were | legit the most difficult I've ever dealt with and I have | years of experience -- Framework sent me a replacement | cable and card and that was great), makes me sympathetic to | them trying to grow their support teams at an even pace and | not inviting a bunch of support queries that can tie-up | even the more established Linux hardware vendors. | | So yes, I agree, better Linux support would be great. The | good news is that it's already becoming an enthusiast | computer so Linux support, especially on newer kernels, is | already better than on many other enthusiast laptops (the | suspend issues and some recent kernel regressions for wifi | are obviously issues but they aren't isolated to just the | Framework), so hopefully that will help. But a hardware | startup can only focus on so many things and if being | explicitly Linux-first isn't one of those things (and due | to market size, I think that probably makes sense when you | have mainstream aspirations), it probably isn't a good idea | to over-promise in that respect -- especially when the DIY | options and unofficial support is really strong/encouraged. | isaac21259 wrote: | Do you think a significant amount of people who want to run | Linux will want it preinstalled for them? | pessimizer wrote: | I don't, and I suspect that people who would want Linux | preinstalled don't have much experience in it, and being | lost would hate it, badmouth it, and badmouth the company | for making it an option. Installing Linux is quick and of | trivial difficulty, and if you're afraid to do it you | should probably work on that fear at a different time | than when you're also breaking in a new computer. | | I would say that installing Linux is like being able to | tune your guitar or a chef being able to sharpen their | knives, but it's an order of magnitude easier than either | of those things. | | Agree with sibling that maintaining preinstalled Linux is | a good sign that all the guts and peripherals are | compatible, although that might be a perverse incentive | to use a bleeding edge kernel/distro to accommodate | flashy hardware. If anything, they should install a | boring LTS/Debian Stable, completely stock other than a | custom wallpaper. | humanwhosits wrote: | I want to know that the hardware will work with linux, | and will continue to work with linux. A pre-install | option is just one way to advertise and convince the user | that you've tested the hardware to work on linux | AndroidKitKat wrote: | It would at least offer the option to a curious consumer | who wouldn't otherwise feel comfortable installing it | themselves. | raman162 wrote: | I personally do. A "just works" configuration will be | ideal for me. Anytime I install linux on a new computer, | I find myself spending too much time tinkering with | configuration settings to make basic things like | adjusting keyboard brightness and volume control work | with the respective keys. | rmbyrro wrote: | I agree they should offer a Linux option from factory, | but you have a fair point. | imilk wrote: | It takes 10 minutes to install Linux from a boot drive and | have everything setup as you need. Bizarre to me that those | 10 minutes would determine whether or not you spend the | next x years with a computer. | jacknews wrote: | Waiting for a 'Framework Surface'. | | Modularity could be a big advantage for smaller companies - | getting a decent system (cpu/ram etc), and a great screen in one | package is enough of a challenge. | | Add in touchpad, keyboard, hinges, etc, and it's no wonder only | the premium large manufacturers seem able to pull off an all- | round great machine. | | Plus the tablet form-factor is just more versatile than a | clamshell laptop. | toomanydoubts wrote: | Can someone who owns a framework tell me wether the lapthp | provides methods for neutering the Intel backdoors(AKA IME)? | COGlory wrote: | Those complaining about Linux power drain: are you using deep, or | s2idle? I find deep to be pretty close to windows with power | drain on my framework. | zapdrive wrote: | You wanna bring it to more of the world? Try adding crypto as | payment method. I know you have a political stand against using | crypto (the "crypto is bad for environment" FUD spread by | traditional financial players), I hope you'll get your heads out | of you know where and do this to actually bring framework to the | unbanked masses. | thaway2839 wrote: | I'm sure the coal plants that were shutting down until crypto | miners bought them is just pure FUD. | | And I guess Satoshi's paper on Bitcoin, which shows that | Bitcoin is fundamentally run by whoever has the most CPU power, | which has naturally triggered a CPU power arms race which has | led to a corresponding increase in power consumption is also | FUD. | | (Once/if alternatives like Ethereum's Proof of Stake are the | dominant force in crypto then yes, power consumption will not | be a problem, but it is a very real problem now, and if it had | simply been dismissed as FUD then solutions like Proof of Stake | would never have been created). | imilk wrote: | goodpoint wrote: | Is it Open Hardware? Where are the schematics? | | If not, is it really that different than a thinkpad? | Jerry2 wrote: | One of the members of my team ordered a Framework Laptop, the | Professional edition, about 4 months ago to replace his old | Lenovo. In the first week, he had battery drain issues. Even when | he put it to sleep, it would drain the battery. He had to keep it | plugged in at all times. He tried few distros (including the | older version of Ubuntu they recommend) and the problems | persisted. His screen also had issues and colors would slightly | shift. I lent him my colorimeter and he said the monitor would | lose calibration after several days. He also complained about | trackpad not tracking his finger properly. In the end, he | returned it. I think he said you have 30 days to return it. | | Hope they fix these issues. | avl999 wrote: | I hate this trend of apple style trackpads that take up most of | the real estate and keep registering false positives when you | type. I have to use a macbook for work and most of the time I can | use it just fine in clamshell mode connected to external | keyboard/peripherals but ocassionally when I am not at my desk | and have to interact directly with the laptop it's an absolutely | atrocious experience due to that damn trackpad. | culopatin wrote: | To you maybe. I hate small trackpads. I move the arrow more | than I type and palm detection works well for me, so who's | right? | yumraj wrote: | Any plans for 15" anytime soon? | | I just hope my current laptop can hold out till whenever that is, | else it'll have to be the 16" MBP with $400 for 32GB RAM upgrade | :( | abstract_put wrote: | I'm really hopeful a 15" is not too distant (but seems like it | might be). I have an aging Dell XPS 9550, but there's not been | much I've wanted to jump at. I looked briefly at the System76 | Kudu - are there any go-to 15" Linux-friendly workstations? | | It seems a lot of developer-type folks have moved to cloud | focused work, at least in my bubble the raw computing power | seems to be less and less valued. | ghostly_s wrote: | Interesting that the only two new laptops that have tempted me in | years (the Framework and the new MBP) both arrived at roughly the | same time yet with wildly different design philosophies. | gtvwill wrote: | I find it interesting that the mbp garnered so much attention | from tech folk. Perf AVG, build eh. Ethos...terrible. yet | still. Gets people in the door to buy it. Humans are wack. | adamrt wrote: | Perf Avg? I thought the M1 was absurdly fast, no? | ashton314 wrote: | Opening my Emacs config on a top i9 mbp takes an average of | 3-4 seconds. On an M1: <1s. | Sholmesy wrote: | Not to stir the eternal debate, but if my Vim config | takes > 100ms, I start debugging what's going on/figuring | out the responsible plugin. | | 3-4seconds would drive me insane :O | tharne wrote: | It's not really an issue for many, perhaps even most, | emacs users. I have a my emacs set to launch when my | window manager starts on login, after which it stays open | until I log off or shut the computer down. Emacs and Vim | have such different workflows that this type of | comparison isn't all that meaningful. | ashton314 wrote: | Nah, that's fair. I've got about _runs ls -l | wc -l_ 143 | packages that I load. My Emacs config is pretty heavy. I | keep trying to trim it down a bit. Though, sometimes I | have edit sessions that last several weeks, so it 's not | _that_ bit a deal. But still. | wilmore wrote: | > Perf AVG, build eh | | What kind of MBP have you looked at? | | I agree with the ethos part, but the current M1 devices are | pretty unique in the laptop space. | culopatin wrote: | What is eh about the build? It's my first Apple device | after a series of high end Windows laptops and I can't find | anything on the build that is not solid in comparison. | | The only complaint I have is that sometimes the keys leave | an imprint on the screen but that could just be my bag | being too tight. I would definitely have this problem with | a Thinkpad or high end HP anyway. Speakers are the best | I've heard and the chasis is stiffer than my car's. The | screen is awesome.... In a thread about a framework laptop | I don't think I can find something that's "eh". | | Unless you're talking about it not being upgradable, but | that's not a build defect. | gtvwill wrote: | Your view on what is a good build is different to mine | (which it should be!). I as part of my job sometimes fix | laptops. Used to do it alot more and see alot more models | but less these days. | https://www.ifixit.com/News/54122/macbook- | pro-2021-teardown There. have a read. Whilst some folks | might marvel at that and think its a work of engineering | glory. | | To me it just looks like the IT equivalent of a john | deere tractor. It'll get the job done, bit fancy, but | their going to bleed every dollar out of you to do | it...and your stuffed if it breaks and you want to fix | it. Also after you've been in their loop for a | decade....fat luck breaking out of that companies buying | cycle easily. Which results in me thinking....eh avg | build. avg device. Its definitely nothing special that's | just marketing hype. | sneak wrote: | The bottom panel isn't supported well against the | internal components and it makes a hollow sound, it feels | like plastic even though it is metal. Compared directly | to the immediately preceding 16" it feels way less solid | (I have both). It's also rather ugly, I look forward to | Apple spending more time figuring out how to get those | features and capacity into a case that doesn't echo boxy | plastic PC laptops from 15 years ago. | gtvwill wrote: | Pro. It perfs incredibly well in a bunch of areas it was | expected to. | | Con. It can't even run code from a whole segment of apps | because of archi it's built on. | | Result - Perf was nothing out of line with expected results | from what you'd expect the market to come up with for the | next range of products. | | It's really nothing special from the user end of things. | outside1234 wrote: | The MacBook Pro 2021 M1? It is totally something special: | | 1) The hardware is first class. Everything is back where | it should be and improved. You can't get hardware like | this anywhere else. 2) It is extremely fast. Nothing ever | slows down. I can't figure out anything to throw at this | thing that will turn on the fan even. 3) It just works. | No drama. This is very valuable if your real value is | writing code and not doing sys admin. | thaway2839 wrote: | I'm currently using Linux (Ubuntu 21.10 on a 2015 Core | i3), Windows (on a 10th gen core i7 laptop with lots of | RAM but an iGPU), and macOS on an M1 Mac Mini, macOS | definitely feels the slowest. | | I suspect if my Windows laptop was closer to the other | devices it would be slower, but Linux just feels so much | faster than macOS in actual tasks. The interactions are | so much "snappier", whereas with macOS most interactions | feel like a chore (I think it's the animations). | noahtallen wrote: | Seriously. No other laptop on the market can do all of: | | - have an insanely long battery life | | - stay completely silent | | - have excellent performance | | The other laptops which can theoretically beat the MBP at | some tasks utterly fail at being silent or having long | battery life under load. | | And the other silent laptops (chromebook maybe) can't | manage heavy workloads. | | So it is very unique in the laptop space. | tmccrary55 wrote: | While I think the Apple Silicon macs are generally high | end, the most fantastic thing to me is the battery life. | smoldesu wrote: | The performance is fantastic for a Macbook. The past 10 | years was like watching Apple trapped in the laptop stone | age, slowly realizing that replacing the ACPI tables on a | laptop chip wasn't enough to change it's performance | profile. With M1, they finally got to do what they wanted, | albeit at the expense of x86. For the majority of Mac users | that won't matter though, since Apple was never a | particularly great steward of the x86 arch in the first | place (like when they dropped x86 32-bit support because it | was "too slow", or whatever). | | Relative to the rest of the laptop space though? I think | I'd simply call the M1 "competitive". It's not the first | laptop we've seen with a powerful iGPU (AMD's Vega graphics | were first to the party in that regard), and it's CPU | performance is good but not great (it's effectively a quad- | core system no matter how you end up using it). On the | higher-end, it's almost a little embarrassing how hard | Intel about-faced with Alder Lake and took Apple to the | cleaners with a more bloated ISA, decidedly worse silicon | and a complete lack of experience designing heterogeneous | systems. | | So far, the only unique thing I've seen from the M1 is the | battery life. I anticipate other manufacturers will catch | up on that front as we transition to big.LITTLE and more | dense silicon packages, so I'm not really that worried for | the rest of the industry. I'm glad Apple has made a laptop | that their fans can enjoy, but x86/32-bit support is non- | negotiable for my workload, and they have yet to prove | themselves with higher-end hardware. Time will tell, but | I'm just happy that the performance wars aren't as much of | a blowout anymore. | filmgirlcw wrote: | Same! I bought both and love them for very different reasons. | sudders wrote: | Can't wait for framework laptop to run Linux/Ubuntu stable | (without battery drain issues) | | Then I'll be switching all the developers in our company over to | a new machine. | | (Currently running XPS 13, but we are due an upgrade, especially | on memory) | nikodunk wrote: | Is this an issue for Ubuntu specifically or all distributions? | Read somewhere that they recommended Fedora 35 for the best | driver support at the moment, though that'll probably change | after the next releases of 22.04 and F36. | | Awesome that you're switching your whole team to Frameworks - | my next work laptop will for sure be a Framework too :) | kkielhofner wrote: | I've taken to having a Fedora 35 install on a bootable USB | SSD. I don't prefer it for daily use (Ubuntu/Pop for me) but | if I'm ever in doubt when debugging a suspected Framework | issue I boot into Fedora 35 as that's the semi- | official/supported distro and version. | | Generally speaking I haven't found it to be any better than | my Framework optimized PopOS 20.04 NVMe boot setup: | | - Rock solid Intel wifi (mostly thanks to Pop providing | kernel 5.15.15) | | - Fingerprint reader works (custom fprintd/libfprint debs, | kind of hacky but works) | | - PipeWire PPA for better bluetooth audio support | | - Suspend-then-hibernate for battery drain issues | | - Probably some other stuff I'm forgetting ATM | | - Quickemu | | - Still basically Ubuntu LTS for the occasionally | goofy/proprietary stuff I need to run requiring it | aunty_helen wrote: | This is a point that people should remember if they're thinking | about purchasing a framework. This is still very much beta | hardware. | | The battery drain is annoying, it's around 30-50% per night | depending on what addon cards you have. I've got a setup that | puts it close to 40% per night so the laptop has to live on | charger over night if I want to use it the next day. | | However, the thing that's really stopping me from using my | laptop (it has sat in my office for the last 3 weeks with its | lid closed) is the touchpad. | https://community.frame.work/t/subpar-touchpad/3962 External | mouse only. | | The mac-book killer was very much hyperbole from paid | reviewers. | | Edit: Also, the I'll throw in the speakers being absolute | garbage as well. Think 1 step above 90s pc speaker. And the | sound device has a constant background static when using | headphones which clicks on when there's sound and then 2 | seconds after any sound being played clicks off. | omdv wrote: | Anecdotal, so obviously YMMV. | | On battery - I am using "sleep then hibernate", which | typically means 4-6% of battery drain overnight which happens | while it is in first ~2hrs of sleep mode. Of course it means | you now spend 30sec booting up, but I can live with that. | | On touchpad - weird, my experience is opposite. I'd say this | is the closest to Macbook experience I had, no issues | whatsoever. | | Speakers are a bit quiet, agreed, no static or anything, we | occasionally use it to watch Netflix with my wife, while away | from TV, interchangeably with her Macbook and definitely | wouldn't call it garbage. | | So, all in all I am in "quite happy" camp. Yes, not Macbook | killer, but for me it is close enough and without any major | inconveniences, but with all OSS benefits and presumably | infinite upgradeability. I use Arch btw :) | sudders wrote: | The sleep then hibernate sounds promising. But is it | something you need to configure yourself? | omdv wrote: | On Linux? Yes. | | Changing the mode is just a matter of changing one line | in one file. But getting hibernate to actually work is a | bit of hassle, especially if you have any kind of | encryption or non-standard file system. This said - I | managed to get mine working on encrypted Btrfs. | hutzlibu wrote: | At some point I tried to have dual boot with windows and | encryption and hibernate working. No fun and no success. | kkielhofner wrote: | Sleep then hibernate was a game changer. Pretty convoluted | to setup (PopOS in my case) and still kind of a pain (takes | longer to resume than I'd like) but definitely an | improvement. | | I have other issues with it (USB-C DP alt-mode, fan noise) | but I've already ranted about those on HN. | dheera wrote: | I also do have the battery drain issue running 21.10. | | I'm generally otherwise super happy with it though. The | speakers don't bother me much, they're good enough for calls, | and if I'm actually trying to listen to music I'll just use | actual bluetooth speakers or headphones. | | I'm most happy about the fact that they put an actually | decent screen and key switches. Many other laptops that run | Linux have shitty 1080p screens and shitty keyboards. | | And the fact that I was able to shove in 2TB of SSD and 64GB | of RAM all bought at market pricing, not at Lenovo or Apple | pricing. | aunty_helen wrote: | Some big points there, I can't even get the 64gb Macbook | because they decided not to bring more than 32 into my | country. So being able to get whatever I want from amazon | at market rates is amazing (and probably the biggest | feature of this laptop) | | There is an issue with ram timings not being supported that | affects the more flashy ram chips. I was lucky enough that | it didn't affect the 32gb module I bought but it could've | been a return (they need to update the supported ram | timings in the bios but haven't) | | I really like the keyboard, although I would prefer the | layout was more macbooky (the function key kills me but | I've swapped it with the ctrl) and the screen I'm pretty | happy with. The 100% / 200% scaling thats supported in | fedora though is awkward. 100 is a bit squinty 200 is waay | to big. | | I like the laptop but have struggled to use it. I'm | starting to wonder if my touchpad is actually defective. | dheera wrote: | Yeah personally I've settled with 100% with larger fonts. | I probably spend 90% of my time in web browser + coding + | terminal combined and they all handle arbitrary | fractional scaling well from within the app. | | And then maybe 5% of the time in graphics editing for | which it doesn't matter. | | For other locally run apps, scaling at 125% or 150% would | be perfect but I think it's just a matter of time before | Linux supports it properly without eating CPU. | abeisgreat wrote: | Had mine for a couple weeks, has some trouble sleeping / | waking in Ubuntu 21.10 but aside from that (and the poor | speakers) it's basically perfect. Trackpad is good and I | don't see any battery drain issues. Definitely easier | experience than getting Linux on other modern laptops. | causi wrote: | Yes, I'll be excited about version 2. Version 1 just has too | many missed opportunities. For example, a single type-c bay | could accommodate two type-A ports, or one port and one | microsd reader. Wasting a whole one on a reader is dumb when | most laptops just have one stuck somewhere. Give me a bay | with a pop-out bluetooth mouse in it. Give me a non-chiclet | keyboard and a touchpad with real buttons and a dGPU option | and a removable battery in standard and extended sizes. | | Why buy a laptop with four interchangeable ports when my | normal laptop has two USB-A, one USB-C, HDMI, microsd, and a | charge port all at the same time? Heck you can't even charge | the Framework unless you leave one port as USB-C. | kmeisthax wrote: | There's been discussions about dual-port expansion cards on | the Framework forums[0], but the problem is finding a chip | that will pass through all the things you expect USB-C to | handle over both ports. This is actually a larger problem | with USB-C, as each altmode is basically a different spec | that reuses the same connector, with lots of negotiation | and custom electrical requirements involved. So any | moderately niche application will either require custom | silicon or have absurd limitations. | | You could obviously wire up an off-the-shelf USB3 hub | controller in such a way as to get two USB3 Type-C ports in | an expansion card. (I don't think two type-As would fit.) | However, you won't be able to charge the laptop, use | external displays, or connect external GPUs through either | of the ports... which is kind of the expectation that | people have with Type-C ports. If they sold such an | expansion card, there would probably be plenty of people | angry that they can't just have this one card for charging | and dongles, and then fill their other bays with storage | drives. | | Related example: fiber-optic Type-C cables for long-run use | basically only come in two flavors, DP and Thunderbolt. And | the source device _has_ to use that one specific altmode; | there is no downgrading to USB 3 or 2. | | [0] https://community.frame.work/t/dual-usb-c-expansion- | card-moc... | gtvwill wrote: | Well common then bunj. Jump on the kicads and fart out a | add on board for your dual usb type A's, or any of the | other add ons you mentioned. I mean hell why not just go | all out and slap usb-c double sided on a single PCB! You | should be able to cram at least 4 in the same area! | | Point is you can do that w/ framework. Fat luck getting | dell or some other behemoth to design a device you can do | that with. They have done a stellar job given how many have | had hopes and dreams to do similar but haven't even got a | product in people's hands. | frakkingcylons wrote: | > The mac-book killer was very much hyperbole from paid | reviewers. | | Hold on. Which reviewers received payments in return for | positive coverage of the laptop? | sensitivefrost wrote: | None of them, they're being massively hyperbolic and | disingenuous because a piece of hardware isn't perfect the | first iteration thus the reviewers who think a great device | is great must be paid. | zmk5 wrote: | None of them did. I think this person is just making that | up. | qudat wrote: | Running arch with wayland and sway on a framework. Setting up | sleep-then-hibernate via systemd works beautifully. I only | lose a few % overnight. | | That's the thing with running Linux as a desktop, you've | gotta tweak it to get it just right. | | Battery life is a non issue for me on the framework. The | speakers on the other hand is a brutal downgrade. | | More thoughts here comparing a 2018 mbp: | https://erock.io/2021/11/01/framework-vs-mbp.html | criddell wrote: | Do your developers have a say in what hardware they use? | sudders wrote: | Yes, however we are unanimously siked for framework. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-02-22 23:00 UTC)